Let’s get real – marriage isn’t all sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes it can feel more like a roommate situation, especially after years of living together. In this episode, we welcome the wonderful Dr. Liz Jenkins, who brings some serious wisdom on how to navigate those tricky waters. We chat about how common it is for couples to lose that initial connection, and Dr. Liz gives us the scoop on her book, “The Marriage Reset”. She outlines her five-step process to help couples reconnect, including ways to re-establish trust and open up those lines of communication. If you’re ready to ditch that roommate vibe in your marriage and bring back the spark, you’ll want to tune in!

MORE WAYS TO CONNECT:

1. Join the Banter Circle or learn more.
2. Check out Wellness Wednesdays led by gerontologist Sally Duplantier
3. You can find Dr. Liz Jenkins and all of her resources on her website.

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

Wendy Green: 00:00:15

Talk about teaching. Well, I am your host, Wendy Greene, and every week we talk about the challenges, the changes and the possibilities that come with this stage of life.

And one way I like to continue this conversation is through what I call the Banter Circle. Each month, the Banter community comes together to talk about things that are of interest to us, that bring us to closer together.

And we learn from each other and build a community from with people from all over the United States. As you know, January also is a time when people like to talk about resolutions. But in the Banter Circle, we're taking a different approach.

Instead of resolutions, we're going to explore the practice of choosing a word for the year. A guiding light for intentional living. The Banter Circle is designed for people who are curious about how life is changing.

And on January 13th tomorrow, we're going to explore how the single word that you choose can become a steady companion through change, uncertainty and growth. If that kind of community sounds meaningful to you, I'd love to invite you to join us. There is a monthly membership fee of only $25.

The value of what happens in the Banter Circle goes far beyond the cost, but the exchange matters. It allows the circle to exist, and it honors the time, care and experience that go into creating it.

at buymeacoffee.com hey boomer: 0413

She writes, somewhere between bills, schedules and kids and stress, couples stop seeing each other the way they did when they took their vows or decided to share a home.

Over time, their relationship seems to feel more like roommates living under the same roof and splitting the bills rather than lovers who made a lifelong commitment. They're polite but distant, frustrated but stuck.

And many conversations, no matter how trivial, transform into a conflict, making you and your spouse or partner feel unheard, unseen or taken for granted. More than anything, you crave connection, but you can't seem to find your way back to it. Does this sound familiar?

I mean, every relationship experiences some bumps that create distance, right? So today we're going to talk about how you find your way back to the love that drew you together in the first place.

My guest, Dr. Liz Jenkins, helps couples reconnect, repair and reignite their love, quickly transforming their relationships or marriages into their early years, connection and passion. Married for 38 plus years, Dr. Liz is a licensed marriage and Family therapist and a certified connection coach.

With over 75,000 hours of focus time working with women and couples. She's a trusted expert who quickly identifies each couple's and individual's unique path to success in their self love, Self love and relationships.

Takes both her true passion and superpower are guiding couples to identify their unique path to relationship success. So let's welcome Dr. Liz Chaboomer. Banter.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:04:29

Hi. Hey. Thank you so much, Wendy. Thank you for having me. And all your listeners and viewers, thanks for having me here.

Wendy Green: 00:04:38

We are excited to have you here. So thanks for joining us. I want to kind of lay the foundation a little bit.

And so when we talk about people who listen to this podcast, a lot of them have been married for like decades. Right. And they probably still love each other, but they may feel more like roommates.

And I suspect some of this has to do with age and physical changes. But there are other reasons that you mention in your book. So talk to me about what causes connection to erode over time.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:05:13

Sure, absolutely. And you're right. There are many seasons in our relationship, just like, just like for our own life individually, we have our highs, we have our lows.

We have when we're scaling at work and when we're maybe starting to feel like we're going to get laid off and things. So. And so marriages also have those highs and lows and those peaks.

I think one of the things that our early relationships have at early times in our marriages, and maybe each of us can think back to that, is that we had a shared purpose and we had goals and so we were kind of focused on the same thing. We had maybe less to worry about, less critters, kids. You know, we were just, we were just chatting about some of our, our critter. Yeah. Yeah.

And so we had less, less moving parts perhaps.

So, so in the, in that sense is that as we moving into different, these different seasons and as long term successful couples take, you know, that live by decision to be together or, you know, through marriage and things, we do start losing sight of some of those purposes, some of those goals, and maybe some of them we've hit and we achieve and we, we check them off the box.

But like myself and my husband, we've been married 38 years and so a lot of those early, you know, early focus that we've now shifted and we have different things pulling at us. Retirement, you mentioned health. Right.

For many of us, we might have that sandwich generation where we're taking care of our parents as well as there's still our kids, adult kids that we're looking at and taking. So it is very easy to start losing that interest with one another. I see. And maybe I'll stop there a second.

But I also do see that as we're with someone more and more often, we lose some of our manners. Another way that we show up. Yeah, right.

Wendy Green: 00:07:26

We start to take things for granted and expectations come in and all of that.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:07:32

Right, right.

Wendy Green: 00:07:33

I also think that this stage of life has some pretty big transitions. You know, now the kids have probably already left home, but like you said, retirement is something that we have to face at this stage.

Or one of the partners may become a caregiver, not just for an elderly parent, but for their spouse.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:07:52

Yes.

Wendy Green: 00:07:54

And then there's also like, is it time to move and downsize? And, you know, that's a time a lot of people say, okay, well, let's break up now because I'm ready to go get a new place.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:08:05

Right, exactly. Can you mention some really big decision points? Many couples come, you know, come to me, things where there's the physical.

You talk about being a care caretaker or caregiver. Big scary illnesses, cancer. Other types of things pop up.

And even if the couple comes together and braves that storm together, although not all, you know, folks do choose to do that, there's the. The fallout of that. And so if we have. If I'm taking care of my spouse who has this.

This illness, and he comes through it, how do I then shift back into. From being this caregiver, like, here, let me help you into the shower. To like, hey, you got it. Yeah, Those.

Those mindset shifts, the physical changes that happen when we go through menopause, you know, perimeter menopause, whatever you want to call it. And men, too, go through their hormone changes. And so there's all sorts of physical, emotional, financial, geographic transitions.

And many of my couples come to me like, they didn't tell us this. There wasn't, you know, it's not panning out. Yeah.

Wendy Green: 00:09:29

And I think when in a marriage is under stress or a relationship is under stress, trying to make a big lifestyle decision at that point becomes almost impossible because you've both dug into your own corners. And so you get to that point. Liz. And then what?

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:09:48

Well, then we're in a. We're kind of in that gridlock. Right. Both of us have, like you said, taken our corners.

We have our stance, we've planted the flag, and we're not budging. And. But in the.

The path that it took to get there, probably there Were fights or we were giving each other the cold shoulder or we said some nasty things. But so our communication dropped away from being curious to see what the other person was feeling, wanting what their desires were.

Why was there the urgency? And we get back into more of the demands, and it's my way or the highway. And so there's a really important first step for couples is the. To repair.

We have to get in there and start to kind of own up or apologize or even realize what we were doing wasn't nice to the other person or how. How we had withdrawn and really, like, tapped out of the marriage or the relationship. And so there was. There wasn't any kind of opinions to.

To fight against. When I talk to couples that are first working, first come into the program and say, what's this about? I don't want to repair. I don't want to have to.

I'm sorry. It's not about saying, I'm so groveling or anything like that.

It's starting to realize and own up more about how our communication has deteriorated, Understand more of what we need to understand our partner, our spouse better. It doesn't mean you have to change your opinion or change your goal or your dream. It means we need to get some clarity.

And if we've been kind of snarky or downright rude or cruel, that, yeah, maybe we need to say, hey, that's not like me, or I really apologize. And. And that's what we learn to do in. In when people are working with me. But repair has to start. We just have to feel the other person hears us.

We need to feel that our needs matter. We sort of sometimes need to. CCI was right.

You know, we're not all that intellectual at times, but we're in where these little kids are like, that's right. And our feelings. Our feelings come up. And I continually have this. This little mantra. I think sometimes I'm gonna have to put a T shirt on.

It's like, feelings aren't facts. Okay? You know, the feelings aren't facts. They're my feelings, but they may not match your feelings.

But when we go into anything that's important to us, we're probably leading with feelings, right?

Wendy Green: 00:12:37

And the defenses go up. So you said a lot in that, and. Yeah, you did. And you. And, you know, part of what you had said earlier is we're never taught. We don't.

They never taught communication skills in high school, college, any of that at our homes. We may have heard yelling or slamming doors and that kind of thing. So so if a.

If a couple comes to you, I would imagine, at least from my experience, one person really wants to make things better, and the other person is like, it's so far gone, we're not going to ever get there. How do you make a change? How do you repair if both of you are not on the same page, of wanting to continue the connection?

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:13:28

Okay, very. That's. That's a really good question. And it is a very common dynamic.

First is we acknowledge that there's two levels of motivation, two levels of commitment towards the same goal. And I'm not here to convince or force the other person to stay in that relationship or stay in that marriage.

And sometimes people say, well, wait a minute. That's what your job is.

What happens is in the process of going through the repairs, when we're restoring trust with one another and communication and all this beautiful stuff starts to happen, we start to become friends again, or we still have.

We increase our likability of, you know, and so in this process, which is similar to when we meet and we go from that's a stranger to I want to be with this person. That is how relationships develop and evolve. So I often am really happy that a couple is fighting. Fighting is energy.

Fighting means there's still skin in the game. There's still an interesting. I don't care. They're disinterested.

There's disconnecting, which is normal and a healthy thing to do when you're feeling like you're stressed and tapped up. So if you're in a relationship that's fighting, that's probably still a good thing because both of you care about it.

Wendy Green: 00:15:05

Yeah.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:15:06

The fact that one person is more motivated and the other person says, hey, I. I'll go hear Liz out, you know.

Wendy Green: 00:15:14

Right.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:15:14

We'll talk to her. That's. That's good. Because that person is still showing consideration. Yeah, still showing up, still showing consideration.

Isn't ready to do some kind of drastic, drastic type of, you know, you know, disconnect. It doesn't mean. Again, it's just. It's. It's good. It is important. And again, I heard a very nice couple.

They were interviewed and what kept them together in so many years? And one of them said that it really was that we never both quit at the same time. Oh. So, you know, so one of them.

Wendy Green: 00:15:55

May have felt more neglected or more checked out or more whatever. But they. The other one was like, yeah, but we've got this commitment. We've. We were a couple. Let's make this work. Okay, that's interesting.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:16:08

We've got our commitment, we've got our vows, we've got our kids. Whatever. What is. Whatever is the motivation. And then it switches. Somebody loses their, you know, maybe I was the one that was like, we got it.

We got to be the cheerleader for it. And then I start to become disheartened or whatever. And then my husband, he's like, no, we got it. It's, you know, it's just a phase. Just a phase.

And then we're back into it again. So I think that that's important to. Is one of the hallmarks.

If you recognize that life is going to have ups and downs, going to be, you know, everything's not going to be great.

If we can still have the interest in repairing and kind of restoring the faith and being curious about the relationship, let's see what, what lifeblood we can pump into it. I think, you know, I've seen folks make major changes and come together bigger and better than before because we're wiser. Right? We don't.

There's a lot of stuff that when we were younger, we think, oh, it's not so bad. They can, they can. They don't hit the trash can all the time or their clothes are on the floor or their whatever. It's not so bad.

But after year after year after year, it becomes bad. And we didn't know that.

Wendy Green: 00:17:22

And so, yeah, so you, you use the word restoring, which is step two in your book. And, and in this case, I don't think you mean like a loss of trust due to something like infidelity. Is that right?

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:17:38

Many couples do come from that. They're restoring the trust because part of that communication and the accountability, it evolves that. But the restore is. And the trust is.

I have a need. I'm asking you to hear that. And you're showing up. And now I'm starting to do have a better perception of you.

I, you know, I say, hey, it would really mean a lot to me if you did X, Y or Z. And you're following through on it now. You become more reliable. I'm having to shift that nasty gram in my head of you. And so that.

That trust starts to build. We're both in here. I'm starting to hear you be more vulnerable with me. I'm starting. We actually play and laugh.

So I'm, I'm starting to look at the future more optimistically. And that builds trust. And can. I think maybe we can make this, this marriage or this relationship, you know, go start to Soar instead of crashing.

Burn.

Wendy Green: 00:18:44

Yeah.

So I think when I read about that in Trust, it was more about recognizing, like you might say to your partner, I really need you to take the trash out. Stop just looking at it.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:18:57

Right.

Wendy Green: 00:18:58

And they do recognize that.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:19:01

Right?

Wendy Green: 00:19:02

Don't just say, well, finally. Right, right.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:19:05

It starts. And. And there's that. I'm being heard. Okay, now. So, okay, I'm being heard. They're recognizing it or they're.

They're snapping out of their kind of haze of, well, you've always done it well. Yeah, but that's because you didn't. Right. And I'm tired of doing that.

Also, we're learning how with talking about trust, we're learning how to have some of those hard conversations and trust that the relationship can handle it and that we can talk about unmet needs or things we didn't like, as trivial as, oh, I have one that was. They were breaking up over. They were divorcing over the dishwasher. And I what's with this dishwasher thing? And.

And it was because there was a very specific way one of them wanted the dishes to be loaded. It was more efficient. It was this, it was that.

And over all the years, she, being very busy, just threw stuff in however she wanted to when they had kids, however the kids could get dishes into. The dishwasher was good with her.

But he had hit his tipping point from all the other stressors, and he was at a life point where, I'm going to go to the mat on that. If you can't do that, you can't do this for me. And it was more representative.

We talked, when is a dishwasher just a dishwasher and it's more efficient to load, and when is it representative of, I'm not heard, my needs don't matter. I'm just a workhorse for this family. And that's where he was really coming from.

Wendy Green: 00:20:48

So I think if I'm hearing you right, what you're saying is it's not the dishwasher, it's the needs being met. It's being heard. It's those things. And we present it as the dishwasher. Right, Right. Okay.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:21:04

And so in your story about throw it, they threw the trash out. It. It wasn't just that they threw the trash out, although that's a big win. It's like at some level, they heard you.

They got your needs, whether it made sense to them or not. And they took the trash out for him.

When his wife rallied the kids and said, we're all going to learn and follow the way dad wants this dishwasher done. And she didn't throw him under the bus. She said, I have not been listening to your father. And it seems like it makes more sense.

And so, you know, the kids are all doing the wiggle dance. And she corrected him, all those things right there. Stopped undermining him as their parent, their father and stuff.

And, and they, they had the lessons and he did it very gently and when it made the big difference. And so that restored his trust in him, his wife, he felt heard, he felt validated, he felt like he could show up better as a parent.

And so, you know, and this was, you know, I'm not talking little kids, I'm talking teenage and some that should have been already launched kind of kids in the house too. So it. This was a couple that been together for many, many years. And so it was a big thing. Yeah.

Wendy Green: 00:22:30

And it's so interesting because we, when we're in the fight, we think it's the dishwasher that we're fighting about.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:22:36

Absolutely.

Wendy Green: 00:22:37

Yeah. So trying to step up and see what's the real problem here.

So when people aren't living together, you know, in that situation of living apart together.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:22:49

Yeah. Yes.

Wendy Green: 00:22:51

Having these kinds of discussions, I would guess I'm asking, are better in person than on the phone.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:22:59

Would you say please? Yes. Whether you're married, dating, whatever, do not text, see things. Do not. I mean, when there are many people, geographically, you know, distance.

Okay.

If we're going to do that, use FaceTime or something like that, where you can see and hear each other, don't leave messages, you know, and ultimatums and all those kind of things. So, yeah, it is important to be in person. And also we want to.

We want to stack the deck in making sure that whether we're living apart or where we're under the same roof, that the timing and the conversation is good with that, we don't use it in unknowingly as a way to ambush them. So having the conversation, let's say, Wendy, you know, we said, okay, you.

You call your sweetheart up and you say, hey, there's something really, you know, I really want to talk to you about, but I think we need to talk about it in person. And they go, oh, my God.

Wendy Green: 00:24:10

I know, right? What did I do?

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:24:12

No, it's like, so. And then you don't say, so when can you be here? Right. We don't do that. Well, we did say, say, hey, you know, let's go back to the.

We'll use the dishwasher. The dishwasher thing has been really bugging me. And about. We seem to have. So we.

We seem to have so many fights or, you know, whatever about conversation about this dishwasher. When we come over. When we come over tonight, can we set aside some time and we can just kind of talk about that?

Because I. I just don't want it to be another fighting zone. All right, so we've. We've. We've let them know what the agenda is. We've let them know that it's a we thing, not a them. You're a you kind of thing.

And the finger goes out. And we've asked it to, you know, would this be okay tonight to talk about it?

So we're setting the timing, make sure it works for people, and it's okay for that. Your sweetheart to say, no, I'm bush. When I get over there, I just really want to just eat some food and go to bed. Okay. Okay. So then we.

Then we got one. Will think about a time that it will. So we want the timing to be good.

We want them to have a little bit of the agenda so they can think ahead of time, calm themselves, be curious, you know, collect their own lists and not make it a pop quiz.

Wendy Green: 00:25:29

Yeah. So I. I imagine, you know, that a lot of people at that point would be like, God, you know, I. She's been so ugly to me. Or she's been so critical.

Hello, doggies.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:25:47

Oh, can you hear me? Yeah, I'm thinking we might have Amazon. Sorry about that.

Wendy Green: 00:25:51

Yeah, she's been so ugly, so critical. You know, like, the last thing I want to do is have another darn conversation about this dishwasher.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:26:00

Yes. Well, that's part of the communication.

Inside one of my programs, we start identifying the communication and the conflict strategies, the conflict styles, because we all come preloaded with our styles. So we can even say that.

I know it feels like this is a big thing over a little thing, and I get it, but I really want to understand your side of it, or I want to be able to get in a place where it doesn't. The dishwasher doesn't ruin our relationship or our marriage. You can also really be important. I have couples that have. When I talk to people.

So you had a fight, A little argument. The guy says it was two hours of this. Two hours. Oh, nothing needs to go that long. And it didn't. It didn't resolve anything. And so when did it happen?

. It started. Started at like: 11:59

That's part of the strategies when we talk about. We don't know because they don't teach us. We need to learn better listening skills and being able to get.

Just get to the point and then take a turn and say, so what do you. What did you hear? What do you think about what I heard?

And so that can go very, very quickly as opposed to this long, drawn out, here's all the things you've done.

Wendy Green: 00:27:33

Wrong kind of thing, which never gets you anywhere.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:27:39

But if, if, let's say if I've been particularly snarky about the dishwasher and I invited you, you know, to come and talk about it, what I want to be able to do is own up. And that's part of. Instead of being defensive and explaining all things, it's like, I know I have been just a royal. Whatever fill in the blank.

You can put it about this dishw washer. And I appreciate you, you know, sitting through another one. That's because I want to keep it short. I just want to get it fixed and done.

And then it's off our, off our radar. These kinds of fight topics where the top. The fight continues and then they stop it, it comes back.

That's one of the goals, is we want to check them off the box, off the list and not have it come back and be one of these repetitive fights or fight topics that has people thinking, we shouldn't. We shouldn't even make this. This is. This relationship is useless. Done. We can't agree on a dishwasher.

How the heck are we supposed to be, you know, calling us a couple? Right? And so that's when you learn the skills.

You can go back in and you can fix the ones that you want and you can toss, you know, like, I don't even need to worry about the dishwasher, you know, however it gets done, it's not a thing, you know.

Wendy Green: 00:29:00

And you told me at one point that even when you start to talk about these things, that the other partner, who may be more reluctant to join in, will start to recognize the. The change in the way you're approaching them and the change in your tone of voice and may become less defensive.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:29:22

Is that what you see? Absolutely, yes. Because they're talking to somebody different. Literally, they're talking to somebody different.

And I really encourage both parties say, like, I'm just practicing. This is new to me. And when we do that when we, you know, I'm trying. We tend to give people more grace. You know, I think we shared.

If we go to the restaurant and someone comes up to us as please, this is my first day on the job. And. And so if I make a mistake, okay. We go like, okay, cool. So it helps us level set our expectations.

And if I show up and say, I'm trying to be different, I don't want to fight about this. I don't want to, you know, get into this thing. It helps the other person say, okay, I'll give you some.

I'll give you some time and some space on this.

Wendy Green: 00:30:18

Yeah. Another thing that you talk about in your book is what you call the renew. That's the third step, a time for play. And I think that is super important.

You know, I know my partner and I, we have set up some rituals of playtime. Like, we go to school on Sunday evening, you know, or Saturday, maybe ice cream time, or those kinds of.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:30:44

I'm going to join you guys on Saturday. You. Absolutely. Rituals, connections, traditions. We have our favorite place. These are things that allow us to look forward to. To plan ahead.

And that is part. That is a good, you know, like, depression killer or funk killer.

Because we know, like, oh, well, we're gonna, you know, they're being snarky tonight, but yeah, it'll be fine. We're just gonna go place. We're gonna shoot pool. I remember the fun times we had when we shoot pool and we start to think forward to that.

They've done lots and lots of research with couples, and they had them do a very lame obstacle course. And so they brought couples in and they filled up. So they bring you and your partner in, they fill out this.

This little questionnaire, say how much we like each other. And we sent you out to an obstacle course. You do this really lay thing, and you come back, you take that same little questionnaire.

Wendy Green: 00:31:44

Yeah.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:31:44

100% of those folks scores were raised higher in their relationship satisfaction because we introduced that thing that called play and adrenaline and novelty and fun, and we had laughter. And that's the part that was really fun and cool. In our early relationships, too. We probably played more, we dated more, we had more surprises.

Oh, I didn't know you were. Whatever. Oh, my gosh, you should have known that, you know, Would you teach me? So we. We had that early energy, and that's what couples need. The.

Just the aging process in general, the life process with work and all the things does have us at times being more of the Transactional relationship.

Wendy Green: 00:32:37

Yeah.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:32:38

And we, and we get this done. Great, great, great. But did we have fun?

And I'm sure you have a, an international audience or have folks that have been well traveled and I consistently hear that us, us folks don't have as much fun, but we're more focused on, you know, work.

Wendy Green: 00:33:01

Work.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:33:02

Yeah, yeah.

Wendy Green: 00:33:04

So we've been kind of focused on long term relationships, but many boomers and in this phase of life have started new relationships which involve blending families of adult children. And there are all kinds of challenges that come with that.

So how, like even from the beginning when you decide you might want to join together as a couple, how do you broach that conversation? Hopefully the kids have met the other person by then.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:33:38

Yeah, yeah. Brushing the conversation. Conversation. As far as with the couple, with each other or how do we share to our, the kids, to the kids.

Wendy Green: 00:33:47

Like, you know, there's a part of you that goes, okay, well, this isn't really their decision. You know, this is our decision, but it impacts our relationship with them.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:33:57

Yeah.

Wendy Green: 00:33:58

And their relationship with us. And so you would want them to be at least on board with thinking. Isn't this great for you, mom or dad?

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:34:07

Right.

Wendy Green: 00:34:08

Okay.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:34:10

I think that it's, it's multi, it's multifaceted. The for one, you're right.

And they need to hear, have seen, you know, know who your guy or gal is because at some level it's, your children are going to be protective of you and also competitive with your, the spouse's, you know, fouls partner that might be coming in.

They may be protective in the fact that they want to make sure that you're going to be safe or the money is going to be safe or the inheritance might be type of thing. They may want to be protective of their relationship time with you. So many adults are jealous of and they have mixed emotions.

They're jealous of say their mom's new boyfriend going to be maybe husband or at least they're going to be living in, you know, you know, together. Because what's that going to mean?

I mean, mom's going to sell the house or they're going to get rid of say, you know, any kind of the family cabin, whatever it might be. We're, there's a lot of aspects to it.

So when you're sitting down with your adult children and you're talking about, hey, let them know about how wonderful this person is in your life, how good it makes you feel. Let them know, talk, hear them out. You know, I want to hear your concerns.

So and then they may talk about some, the money, the you're going to move far away, whatever it might be, hear about their concerns, where do we fit in? And I want you to have already thought as much as you can about that so you can reduce their anxieties.

And if you hadn't thought about an aspect that they brought up, instead of getting defensive, like, you know, that's a good idea, you know, that's a good thought. I hadn't thought about that. I didn't think it was, would be an issue. But let me look at it, you know, let me look at that a little bit more.

And, and so that helps to reduce the tensions and talk about the tough stuff that might be circling in their, in their minds.

It's also when your partner would, you'd want your partner to have that same kind of conversation with, with their kids as well and find out what their concerns or grievances and how do we, how do we manage it?

I have some widows, widowers and they're dating, but they still have a lot of their deceased wife's things in the closets and pictures on the walls and it's been 10 years because he wants to keep them there to honor her and the ch. His children that still come and go and have the holidays.

How do you navigate that with someone that you're dating and then you know, engaged to and what does that do? So there's a lot of moving parts. And what would that feel like to your kids to see mom's pictures no longer out and about?

Wendy Green: 00:37:26

So wow.

I mean if we didn't learn communication skills early and figure out how to relate to each other, then bringing this in later in life, you really need to work on those communication skills because that's. Now there's more people involved.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:37:42

Right.

And that's one of the things that contributes to the statistics when people talk about second marriages or third marriages, how the divorce rate or the breakup rate goes higher is because in some ways it's simpler but in so many other ways you, you also have other, other aspects. Like when you toss that stone into the water, those rings continue to go out. It doesn't.

And for all your listeners out there, they think it doesn't mean finding that long term partner the second time around or remarrying the second or the third time around is the wrong thing.

It just means that if you, you want to take, consider, bring into consideration that your extended family friends sometimes get like, oh right, yeah, they were eyebrows. Well, it's a small town, you know, type of thing.

And so you want to just take those things into consideration, but honoring yourself and your partner or your future spouse needs is primary and then figure out how to manage some of the, the support and maybe, you know, I want to say push back from other folks.

Wendy Green: 00:38:55

Yeah. So I want to just move on to one other thing.

So you mentioned when we talked earlier that even though you have your PhD in marriage and family and therapy and all of that, you don't bill this as therapy. You build the work that you do with people as coaching.

So, you know, that's interesting to me because as a coach, I always think, well, people choose to go to therapy because their insurance covers it. So why do you bill as coaching?

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:39:26

Okay, my container for the coaching for my relationships and couples and marriage coaching is very, I want to say, very strategic and very intentional.

The, for at least for the like the US Mindset, we go like, I got insurance, I'm going to go for a cope, I got a copay, I'm just going to go see doctor, any doctor kind of thing, or what I think is the best doctor. And there's nothing wrong with, with that. But that is really what the therapy world for couples is, is not the wrong. It's not the right place.

It is more like disease focused. There's something wrong. One of the people in there has to have a psychiatric diagnosis, which is not it. It's how the two are coming together.

Each person's healthy, smart, they're managing really well. It's how this relationship and how do we manage that dynamic that's the real issue.

Therapy falls very, very short because you get one short time together once a week. We bring up a problem and talk about those repetitive fights. We bring up a problem, we start to talk about, oh, bye, time's up, gotta go.

And off they go.

And I just did something more damaging than healing because I brought them into a place where they're fighting about something that they haven't been able to handle at home, or they're having a conversation that didn't have a solution and I'm sending them down the hallway. They, they have to take separate cars sometimes. They fight in the hallway, they fight in the car, they fight at home.

Or they go real silent and their minds inaccurately saying, we just not why bother? We've been, you know, let's. This, we obviously are the wrong match, so we just need to end it. And that's not, that's not correct.

And, and so I've over the years working with couples that have been to like 10 different therapists. I just. First of all, I stop them and tell them, like, I congratulate you both on your persistence and that your.

Your innate knowledge, mindset that our marriage or our relationship can make it. We're just not in the right place. So the format that I use is that we. We have our sessions.

They're longer, they have more of them, they have their vip, and everybody's treated individually. My messages, my guidance is designed for their relationship dynamic, not, you know, and they have WhatsApp access to me outside of the session.

So there's an individual WhatsApp for each of them, and then there's a couple's WhatsApp.

And that's a private space where when we go home and we say we're supposed to talk about that washing machine or that dishwasher, and something starts to go wrong, they set. They hop on there, and they say, hey, we're starting to go down the wrong path. We stopped ourselves, but we don't know where to go.

One, we celebrate the wins. Coaching celebrates wins. You go to a golf coach, you go to a dance coach, you go to a gym, and they say, oh, good job there.

Look, you're lifting 10 more pounds or your swing's getting better. We're celebrating the wins. So we say, hey, you stopped the fight. You recognizing we're going down the wrong way. Yay.

Now, because I'm working with them outside of it, I'm telling them, here's what I need you to do. And they. And my coaching program has all sorts of videos and activities that they can download. They work together.

So the whole goal is focused on the positive things in what they can do to change, Seeing the changes, feeling the changes, and moving forward.

Wendy Green: 00:43:09

I love that. I love that, you know, and that is such a clear definition of what's the difference between coaching and therapy. You don't have to have a diagnosis.

It's not like there's something medically wrong with you.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:43:22

No.

Wendy Green: 00:43:23

In fact, with coaching, you start because you're in pretty good shape. You know, you're a full individual. But there's something that you just need to a cheerleader.

You need a little extra lessons, like learning this communication skill. You need some extra help. So.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:43:40

Yeah. Yeah. I love it when they fight in front of me because it's kind of.

You know, it's like when I go with a good golf course and I start to swing and they, oh, Liz, I can see your. Your knee or your leg is not doing this. There's another set of eyes that's you know, kind of disinterested, but cares about me.

So when they're fighting, when they're talking, I immediately boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

I'm able to see, see that pattern that they're doing or I'm catching the words that they're using that they're, that they're unaware of and that we were taught was good.

Wendy Green: 00:44:10

Yeah.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:44:11

Use these words. They're not necessarily good in the midst of the fight.

So it's having, you know, expert support that's going to show you how to build you up and how to make the bridges and things.

And you, you start to feel that, you start to see that just so like when you go in the mirror, I don't know, years ago I could see abs, you know, or you can see a little. But you see.

Wendy Green: 00:44:36

Right.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:44:36

Changes. You can feel the changes. Yeah.

Wendy Green: 00:44:39

So I love, I, I love talking to you and I love that your work focuses on, you know, the possibilities and the lessons and not just the promise of perfection. So if there's one thing that you would like to leave with my listeners today, what would you want it to be?

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:44:56

I say that trust your gut, trust your heart. There's a reason why the two of you found each other and came together. You're a nice person, they're a nice person.

But just like all of us, we get tired, we get stuck, we get snarky, we get lazy.

And so if you're feeling like any of that, whether you're, you know, living apart together or this is your second or third marriage and hang in there and then reach out. You can. You just need some expert advice that isn't going to point out the flaws in the bad way.

They're going to show you, here's what you could do differently. And when you know that, how to do that, it's perfect, it's smooth, it's simple.

And so I, I just know that the therapy route points out the flaws and doesn't prepare people with the skills or the. Just the space to repair a relationship. It's really good for individuals, but. Right, right, right.

Wendy Green: 00:45:53

Yeah. And there's some situations where it really helps.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:45:56

Yeah.

Wendy Green: 00:45:58

So people go check out your website, Dr. Liz.

Dr. Dr. Liz jenkins.com and that will also be in the show notes and, and check out your book, the Marriage reset five therapist proven steps to fix your marriage, rebuild trust and reignite lasting love.

I also want to say, Liz, that on your website you have all kinds of fun stuff like ideas for dates and, you know, doing little text messages, kind of flirty things, which was really cute and sweet. So check out the website just for some fun ideas, too.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:46:34

Yes, yes. There's lots of free options. And inside the bonus, there's. Inside the book, there's a bonus for everyone that.

Wendy Green: 00:46:42

Oh, yes, that's right. I forgot to mention that.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:46:45

Yeah, that's okay. There's all sorts of fun stuff we've mentioned. Thank you.

Wendy Green: 00:46:51

Well, I. I always enjoy talking to you. And, you know, connection isn't something that we either have or we lose forever. It's something that we practice.

I mean, if it's important to us, then it takes attention. It takes practice.

And whether you've been married 40 plus years or remarried later in life or navigating a new kind of partnership, this conversation is a reminder that growth, growth is always possible.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:47:19

Yes.

Wendy Green: 00:47:19

And not that love is easy, but that it's worth it.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:47:25

Exactly. Yeah.

Wendy Green: 00:47:27

And one more thing before you go, I want to tell you about another podcast that my friend has. Well, it's actually a webinar. It's called Wellness Wednesdays, and it is run by Dr. Sally Duplantier. Well, she's working on her PhD now.

She's in her 70s, working on her PhD. She is a gerontologist, and she has these Wellness Wednesday webinars that are free, and they have experts on all kinds of topics.

This week is about healthy eating, trying to break some of the myths of. We keep hearing different news, like, is coffee good? Is coffee bad? Is red meat good? Is red meat bad?

You know, so hopefully we'll get some clarity on that.

Dr. Liz Jenkins: 00:48:16

Mythbuster. I love it. I love it.

Wendy Green: 00:48:18

I know. But you can find her@my zinglife.com, so check that out if you're interested. And my name is Wendy Green. Thank you so much, Liz.

This is always fun, and this has been boomer banter. I hope to see you all next time.