⚜️❤️ The Family Wealth Series !! 

IT IS WITH GREAT PLEASURE THAT WE CONTINUE:

THE FAMILY WEALTH PODCAST SERIES.

With with Special Guests James A. Bergeron, J.D. and Brian Bere.

It’s been said:

“It’s Not How Much You Make, It’s How Much You Keep”

Join me and my colleagues, James A. Bergeron, J.D. and Brian Bere at Nuveen Investments, for a podcast series that focuses sharing important Family Wealth Management information that is designed to help you, and your family, become stronger and more independent. 

Jim is an attorney and Advisor Education Consultant in the Global Learning and Development group where he and the team focus on developing and delivering intellectual capital designed to help wealth management firms and advisory practices evolve - and enhance their relationships with clients.

Jim is a graduate of Augsburg University in Minneapolis with degrees in Economics and Political Science and later received his Law Degree from Vanderbilt University in Nashville, TN. Jim currently serves on theNorthern Regional Council for the American Cancer Society.

Brian is an Internal Advisor Consultant with Nuveen, and a graduate of Miami University.

Ellis Wealth Management and our friends at Nuveen want you to grow and keep all that you have worked for - in Finances and in Life! 

SESSION II TOPICS:

4 Corner Documents

Letters of Intent 

Who Got What, and 

Practical Steps and Action Items !

Get Ready as we continue our focus on the greatest investment of all

- Human Capital and The Family!

“Invest in What You Love!”® ❤️⚜️

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Feel free to share this message with those in your circle who are on a similar path of learning. 

Session #1 can be heard here:

https://player.captivate.fm/episode/d5c91701-d63d-42be-885a-5b128f717ad6

Session #1 Topics include:

Introduction 

What is Wealth

What is Legacy 

We hope our conversations will help you acquire more knowledge, become even more curious about the gifts that are in and all around us, while supporting you to reach new heights as we grow together.

You can subscribe and listen to EWM INSIGHTS on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or the Ellis Wealth Management Homepage: https://elliswealthmanagement.net/podcasts/

Above all, through EWM INSIGHTS we want to encourage you to:

INVEST IN WHAT YOU LOVE!®

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Welcome to Insights. This is Paul Ellis, managing director of Ellis Wealth Management, where we encourage you to invest in what you love.

Ellis Wealth Management is an independent financial services firm focused on planning, advice, coaching and investment management. We are dedicated to the families we serve and we encourage you to invest in what you love.

Within Insights, we look at ways to make our world richer through focusing on sharing and developing human capital. Well, all right. What a great, great day it is in the beautiful Pacific Northwest. Summertime in the Pacific Northwest is absolutely gorge.

And I trust that you're having a wonderful summer wherever you are as well. It's with great pleasure that I have the opportunity to introduce colleagues James Bergeron and Brian Barret at Nuveen Investments.

And we're going to have a podcast series over the next few months that's going to focus on sharing important family wealth management information. And it's designed to help you and your family become stronger, more independent.

It's been said it's not how much money you make, it's how much money you keep. Jim is an attorney and an advisor education consultant in the Global Learning and Development Group at Nuveen.

He's a graduate of Osberg University in Minneapolis. He has degrees in economics and political science and later he received his law degree from Vanderbilt University in Tennessee.

He currently serves as the North Regional council for the American Cancer Society. So without further delay, here's the second session discussion in our Family wealth series.

And I am joined today again with our good friends Jim Bergeron and Brian Barret. How are you guys?

You know what it is, as you say, we're in the heart of summer and the weather is great. We've got great sunshine.

It's amazing, amazing what it does for all of our attitudes, especially again, as you know, we're here in the the upper Midwest and so we enjoy these days as much as we can.

Absolutely. Brian, what's going on in your neck of the woods?

You know, not, not too much different. You know, join summer over here in Denver. And you know, you mentioned, James, I know you're up in Minneapolis.

I was just up there about a few weeks ago seeing my beloved White Sox, and something came up, maybe a little relevant. We were actually talking about Prince. I know he's a famous Minnesotan and talking a little bit that the situation of his estate actually came up.

And I was mentioning to some friends I was with, you know, some of the content we were going over in this series.

Oh my. Oh, my goodness. Really?

Yeah, yeah.

Did.

Did some digging on it and turns out that Prince had some difficulties with his state.

So was, was thinking a little bit about that and, and I know that we mentioned he had about a hundred or somewhere between 100, 300 million in net worth.

And you know, part of the difficulty in settling his estate was, you know, trying to figure out all of the, you know, getting all the legal documents in place afterwards and whatnot. But I won't go too far down that road. Thought that I would mention that as an interesting tidbit.

You mentioned Minnesota there, but I was just enjoying, I was just enjoying Minnesota up by you.

Well, that is interesting. You know, last time we spoke we spoke about what is wealth, what is legacy.

And Jim shared some very important information and action steps people can take and think about. And if people miss that episode, I'll place the link in the show notes and people can go back and listen to that very informative episode.

But that's really fascinating about, about Prince. You would think that with all of his genius and all of the team that should be around him, he.

It's always surprising when you hear of estates of the rich, the famous, the celebrities not being, not being exactly in the best of order. Don't you think, Jim?

Yeah, Paul.

You know, and it's, it is unfortunate but at the end of the day it happen, happens quite often and it happens to individuals who really you would expect to be surrounded by a well versed team of individuals. And if it can happen there, it can happen really to all of us. And I think you're right.

You know, we, we started off this series talking a bit more subjectively about the fact that wealth and legacy can be defined much broader than just the economic resources.

And from an estate plan standpoint, I think we'll also, as we go through this series, delve into some ways of really bringing a wealth and estate plan to life. But it has to start with a structure.

The foundation and the foundation of really any good estate plan are a set of documents that we'll go through today in today's session. But understand this, your choice in either establishing or not establishing those.

And much like the estate of Prince found out, if you don't take the time to write your own plan, your state of domicile has written one for you. And those are the laws of intestacy, and that's what governs now. It may or may not meet your wishes.

So that's why we start this process with defining a so what are those foundation documents? And in today's session, Paul, I thought it might make sense for us to go through a bit of the what are they?

And what are some things to think about as you're either drafting or maybe revising those documents?

That sounds like a great idea. We can all learn and we can learn from other people's mistakes and we don't have to make them ourselves.

So that would be a terrific, terrific session. Let's dig in.

You know, one of the things I thought might make sense, Paul, and you and I have chatted about this in the past, that when we think about these four corner documents, just real quickly, what are they? Well, the first corner would be your properly drafted executed will and or revocable trust.

I'll talk a little bit about revocable trusts as well when we discuss that corner. Second corner of your estate plan foundation is what we would refer to as a power of attorney for financial purposes.

We'll go through how those work and maybe some thoughts around who might act on your behalf if you're unable to communicate your wishes and desires for financial purposes.

Third corner, same type of document, but for medical purposes, someone to act again on your behalf if you're unable to communicate them for medical decisions. And then the final corner, we would reference something we refer to as a living will.

And really at its heart, it's a document not designed, maybe for your use as the drafter, but for your family's use to help them with some really, really difficult decisions that need to be made when end of life approaches and we're faced with some of those decisions. So we'll talk about each one of these. But maybe we'll with that first corner will and or revocable trust quickly. What's the difference?

Well, a will is a document that outlines what you want to have happen with your assets, those economic resources, in the event of something either accidental, unforeseen, or perhaps it is at end of life, but it controls those economic resources where the assets are going to go to. It controls, for instance, how that process is going to work.

You might include in a will, for instance, some provisions that would hold assets in further trust for family members. Perhaps you're writing this will and you're thinking about the next three to five years, which we think is actually sound reasoning.

Think about what you would want to have happen if you were to pass in the next three to five years, not 20 years from now. A lot can change, but over the course of the next couple of years and then just commit yourself to revising this document.

So the will's going to control, for instance, how the assets are disseminated following your death. And it's also going to do a few other things and we'll get into those in just a second. But let's pause maybe.

And Paul, I think it maybe makes sense to differentiate will from a revocable trust. You and I have had some of those conversations in the past, but maybe I'll spend a quick moment on revocable trust if you think it's appropriate.

I think it's spot on appropriate sometimes.

We'll see individuals make a decision to use a revocable trust. Now, revocable, what does it mean by its very name?

It means that you can set it up and you can change it, alter it, amend it, you can completely cancel it at any point.

It serves a very similar function as a will would in that it again, it outlines where assets are going to go to, who's going to get what and how, either outright, maybe in further trust. But a revocable trust does the same thing. So you might ask, why use one or the other?

Well, some of the basic decision points include, for instance, the publicity or at least public availability of documents. A will is a probate document.

It's filed in the probate court and anyone who wants can go to the probate court and get a copy of your will if you've passed on, and if it's been submitted for probate purposes, they can see what the will is, what it holds, and they can see, for instance, even information around assets and economic resources. Not a big deal.

But for some people who want a bit more privacy, a revocable trust does exactly that, functions the same way as a will, but it's private. It's not a public proceeding. It's not necessarily disclosed directly through probate court. So it contains a bit of a privacy layer within it.

That's one of the main differences. There are some others, but that's usually why someone might lean in one direction or the other. That make sense, Paul?

It does. Some people, however, might have the question, do I need both? Or if I have one, does it supplant the other?

Really good point.

You know, the fact of the matter is, let's say that you do feel like I really like the idea of maybe being a bit more private in these proceedings, not having everything disclosed through the probate process. So I'm leaning towards writing a revocable trust to take care of these transfers at my death.

The fact of the matter is you're still going to utilize a will, but the will in that instance is just going to really be quite basic and it will do really two things. First of all, probably will just designate who gets your tangible property, the household items and the like. Something very simple like that.

But by and large, what it's going to say is, at my death, if there are any assets that are not already titled in my revocable trust, those assets are just going to, in essence, pour over to that revocable trust.

So the will just acts as that catch all, then passes everything into the revocable trust that we mentioned, and then gets distributed out according to your wishes directly. If you choose just a will on its own, you don't have to have a revocable trust. The will would stand on its own.

But again, subject to those same ideals around public versus private and those pieces that again, are decision points for you.

And one person may not be at the level of Prince or Aretha Franklin. They just might want to keep their items private.

There are families that are very cohesive and work very well together, and there are some families that may have a little more complexity to them. So a revocable trust, again, all.

All the factors that we'll talk through with clients and ultimately, at the end of the day, make a decision, what's best. So within that particular corner, a couple of other quick points to maybe consider as you're going through this process.

Let's say that you are opting to utilize a will.

Well, there's a couple of things that you're going to want to make sure that you start to think about one of those who's going to play the role of a fiduciary, in other words, the executor of a will. I think a lot of us have heard that term, but in essence, it's a really, really important role.

And it's that role that ultimately handles the administration of your will.

Oftentimes we'll choose family members, for instance, to play the role of executor, the person who at your death, then is responsible for accumulating all of your assets, identifying any of those outstanding debts, making sure that those debtors are paid, and then in turn, making sure that your wishes, as outlined in the will, are fully carried out. But again, Paul, you and I have been through this process and we Know that that's a big role and it takes time.

And a couple things that you might want to think about as you're thinking about the will and maybe who you want to name to that role.

What we'd ask you to consider is, does that person that you might point to to be your executor at your demise, do they have the time and inclination to deal with all of the paperwork that goes along with playing that role? Do they have the ability to deal calmly and fairly with potential heirs and creditors? It's a big deal. Paul, you mentioned already. Right.

Certain family dynamics come into play, and who you choose to play that role is going to be at the center of those dynamics. Do they have their own financial issues?

We wouldn't want to name someone to the role of executor if, for instance, it already appears that they're having difficulty with financial competence on their own. Are they organized? Are they capable of juggling several tasks at once? And then do they have financial or legal experience?

The latter of those not necessary person that you name to that role doesn't have to be a lawyer or attorney, but do they have access to support like that? I think those are critical components of executors and executor roles. And as you're thinking about them, what do you think? Paul?

I think that merely choosing a person in the family that you feel can have the time and the ability is not merely the same or is not the same, shall I say, as sitting down with them and having that discussion to see whether or not they want to take on that role as well.

Really, really good point, Paul. You know, and at the end of the day, I think that's got to be a part of this process, letting those individuals know.

You raise a really good point that brings another thought to mind for me.

And that's as you're thinking about those individuals and maybe communicating with them, sometimes we'll see families with maybe multiple children, perhaps three kids, and they might name one child as the executor of their will. And it might be for very valid reasons.

But one of the things that we would ask you to also think about, Paul, you bring this to mind for me, and that's that notion of make sure that we're not sending an inadvertent psychological message again, at your death, you're no longer there.

You're not able to communicate to those other siblings that this was really a result of some rational thought about who could play that role, maybe how and whether they've got the wherewithal the time and some of that rationale behind it. What we don't want is that inadvertent message of one child, for instance, maybe being favored over the others.

And quite often the parents would say, that's the last thing on my mind. But you're not there to communicate it. So that role of executor, incredibly important. The decision process, incredibly important.

And then, Paul, as you know, just the whole communication around that decision, it's one of the key aspects of a well thought out and devised will and estate plan.

I think the communication component is often overlooked.

Yeah, I think that at times people feel that family members should know what they're thinking or that other family members should know what one is thinking.

And without specific instruction or specific communication about the intent, I think that it can create more problems than many people want to give it credit for.

You know, and we could go on all day, even just about that particular corner piece.

But maybe just another quick thought and then I think let's move on to this notion of powers of attorney, a critical component to a well structured estate plan. But one last thing. The will is going to control those items of, for instance, tangible nature.

So everything that you own, all the stuff in the garage, all of those items, it's also going to include and control the dissemination of checking accounts, banking accounts, overall investment accounts. What it doesn't control are those items that have beneficiary designations. Think of life insurance, retirement plans, for instance.

Those items are disseminated according to the designation that you have on file for that particular account.

So as you're updating wills, make sure that your beneficiary designations align with the wishes that are outlined in that will and or revocable trust. Let's spend maybe a moment, Paul, talking about powers of attorney. So I think these again are critical and oftentimes overlooked documents.

And real quickly, what are they? Well, a power of attorney is merely a document that identifies someone. You can kind of think of that role of executor with a will.

In this document, it identifies someone that has the ability to make decisions on your behalf.

If you are in a state in which you can't communicate them, perhaps you've been in an accident and you're unconscious, or might be unconscious for hours or perhaps days or a coma that could last even longer. Well, events happen around US Markets change. There are things that are happening within certain decision documents.

This document gives someone the ability to act on your behalf. If you are in that state, the power could be permanent, meaning you sign the document and the person has that power immediately.

Or it could be something that we would refer to as a springing power.

By that I mean at the end of the day, it could be that you write the document, name the person to the role, but it only comes into existence upon a certain event, perhaps that very accident that we referenced before up to that point, that person that you named doesn't have that power to make those financial decisions on your behalf, but it can spring into existence upon that event. And so as a result, it's an incredibly important document. It's one that we would want to have in place.

It's the second corner when we talk about for financial decision making. Paul, I'm certain that you run into this quite often in your world directly.

And when you're working with families and clients, having someone that can make those decisions as outlined in this document, probably incredibly helpful as you go through that process.

Absolutely.

Let's talk a little bit about that third corner, which really closely approximates the power of attorney for financial purposes. And it's just the same document, but it does so for medical purposes, sometimes referred to as a power of attorney for health care.

It's a document that lets you name someone else to make those decisions about your health care in case you're not able to, to make or communicate those decisions yourselves. And so why would you consider this?

Because you have the right to decide what kind of medical treatment you do and do not want, even if you're not able to communicate it. And this document gives someone, usually a family member, the ability to make those decisions on your behalf.

Your health care provider and your healthcare team then in turn can work directly with that person person to make those decisions about the type of health care and how that's ultimately going to be carried out.

If you don't have a power of attorney for health care, again, the state in which you reside has provided a structure for that and it may align with what you're thinking.

But usually a state will say that if there isn't an existing power of attorney for health care purposes, then in this order, your court appointed guardian or conservator, your spouse or domestic partner, your adult child, your adult sibling or a close friend could act on your behalf to make these decisions in that order.

Now again, what we don't want to leave to chance is perhaps for instance, there are some family disputes and there's a close family friend who you would like to act on your behalf to make these decisions. Well, the cord in essence, and the healthcare team is going to first look to do you have a sister or a brother?

And if so, the answer to that is yes, that's where they're going to turn first. So it's part of the reason why we want to have this in place is that it gives you the chance to make decisions.

What type of healthcare, how do you want it carried out? Who do you want to make those decisions on your behalf? Very similar to financial purposes, but again, this is for health care purposes. Makes sense.

Paul, I think it's very important to point out that on the top of that list, or in that order was a court appointment.

Yep.

Spouse would be second.

Yes. Yeah, very good point.

So something to consider.

Yep.

You know, and then in terms of the types of decisions that that person can carry out on your behalf, in this document, it includes a number of things, but for instance, whether to admit or discharge you from a hospital or nursing home, which treatments or medicines do you want to receive, who has access to your medical records? And this brings up maybe one last point for this corner. Many families are seeing young family members, their students now going off to college.

It's that time of the year where a lot of kids are starting college and in some cases first year. You want to think about if you have college age kids or if there are grandkids that are college age, perhaps, for instance, letting the parents know.

It makes all the sense in the world to have a power of attorney put in place for that child, even though they're 18. In fact, you'd want it if they're 18 or older. Why?

Because as they go off to college, maybe a long ways away from home, if something happens while they're in college and if they are adult age and you call up the school saying, I just heard that my child was taken to the hospital, they maybe, maybe will tell you which hospital, although that's not a certainty. But for sure, when you call that hospital, they're going to ask, for instance, do you have this document in place?

If not, the child is an adult, subject to HIPAA rules. They can't communicate status, they can't communicate treatment, they can't communicate any of that with you. And so you're left in that position.

So again, a good idea just to keep in mind this notion that for those kids that are going off to school, one of the last to do maybe before they do take off and drive down the road. And I've watched my son drive away with his car filled.

And you know, one of the things that you think about, in addition to how quickly those 18 years went, how Do I make sure that I'm providing a level of support for my child? This document will do it.

I think it's also important to recognize that different states have different views of what a child is. So the power of eternity I would consider as a very, very important document. And you bring up an excellent point there.

Now let's, let's spend just a moment talking about this final corner. And again, this is the foundation.

In our next session we're going to start to build on this foundation and start to define a way well designed estate and transition strategy. We're talking about the plan right now in these four corners.

But we'll get into what that strategy should also include because on their own, these four corner documents, while important, may not totally ensure success. But let's talk about the final piece. The final corner that I would reference is something that I'll sometimes refer to as a living will. What is it?

Well, it's your written expression of how you want to be treated in certain medical circumstances that really are unrecoverable. And you know, sometimes I'll say, because I don't really like the terminology, but it's the final exit, the final exit plan.

You're in that state in which there is no recovery.

And as unfortunate as that is, there are still decisions and oftentimes family members are faced with those horrific discussions around how much life sustaining measure or measures do we take on this family member's behalf. And I can tell you from having experienced it myself, it is very difficult.

And even though you want to think objectively as you're sitting bedside with a family member and going through this process, it is heart wrenching. Now this document is your chance to outline for instance, what life sustaining treatment means to you.

What medical machinery and techniques do you want implemented on your behalf. Things like feeding and hydration, breathing assistance. These are again all difficult conversations at that moment in time.

They're not easy at any point, but they're easier when we're thinking about it objectively. And again, we want to be careful with these documents because a couple of things that we should also outline.

First of all, be careful that you know when you're signing a document or living will that you understand, first of all, it's not legally binding on the health care team. Now that said, they don't have to do what's in that document, but that will be really your demonstration of wishes.

And in almost all circumstances that healthcare team is going to abide by it. But we also want to be careful about a document that we Just put in place quickly.

A form document, for instance, might have provisions in it that are maybe a bit more challenging.

For instance, maybe if we don't review the document, some of the commonly used clauses in living wills may forbid the provision of assisted breathing, including devices you're presently using. For example, if you're living with COVID making sure that we take those things into account.

Again, it's part of the reason why you talk with your advisors, with your estate planning professionals, to make sure that you're not just capturing a form document that applies to the masses without it being specific to your situation at the end of the day.

Paul, this document really though is for your family's use, to make that process a bit easier to work through because they've got your wishes outlined in front of them. As opposed to feeling the guilt of saying, for instance, I feel like we should remove all of the life sustaining measures.

And even though you, you feel in your heart it's the right thing, you also can't help but think of a lifetime of interactions with his family members and the love that goes along with it. It's a hard thing to do. This document helps that process and it's the final corner of our well crafted estate plan.

Now, when you say living will, there may be individuals who think that they may be confusing the living will with some sort of trust type of document. You're sharing that they are actually two separate. Two separate pieces. They're not one in the same.

Yep. And you might actually to help differentiate them. Paulus, you're absolutely right. You know, early on I talked about a revocable trust.

Well, sometimes those are referred to as living trusts. And so potentially confusion between what's a living trust and a living will, are they the same thing? Maybe. Think about it this way.

It's a letter of wishes. The wishes that you want carried out in that event where you are at life's end and now it's that transition period and there's really no recovery.

What are the wishes that you want carried out on your behalf? So maybe thinking about it as a letter of wishes. You're absolutely right.

This shouldn't be confused with a living trust or a will for that state, for that state, as we talked about earlier in this particular conversation today. But it's those wishes, the wishes that you want carried out.

And again, it's really more for your family's benefit because you're likely at that point where you're just not functioning as you would be as a normal breathing human individual.

Now is that the Same as a letter of intent.

You know, it could be, but a letter of intent can go beyond just those life sustaining measures. Now this document that I'm referencing is really more geared towards what do you want carried out on, on your behalf. A letter of intent?

Intent could include that, but it could also include other things, other values, for instance, that you might feel are appropriate.

Appropriate or things that you would want to have communicated to family members about, for instance, certain types of assets, maybe even some of those sentimental assets within the family. So a letter of intent may be a bit broader.

I'm speaking a bit more specifically about that very end stage, usually some type of a hospice environment or the like. And this document helps that team in the family get through it.

Excellent. Now this also dovetails into who gets what.

Good point. Yeah. You know Paul, that, that point, I've said this in the past, I know you've also experienced it. Having spent some time in probate courts.

I can tell you quite often it's not about who got how much in an estate plan or estate transition, but about who got what.

And those items of sentimental value, those things that are important for reasons that go beyond financial, incredibly impactful and oftentimes can lead to family discord. There are websites out there even that will talk about this. Perhaps something like who gets grandma's yellow pie plate?

There's a website put together by the University of Minnesota that delves into that notion of those items of sentimental value are causing some of the biggest arguments and potential family discord beyond the amounts of money. And in that particular instance, the design behind this website was exactly that, a pie plate that caused family discord.

And so thinking about that ahead of time, as you're drafting a will, for instance, thinking very carefully about those items of sentimental value, the what, not just how much we're going to divide up, but who's going to get what is incredibly important item of sentimental value. Could be a pie plate, could be an automobile, could be an art collection, could be ownership of the family business.

But thinking that process through is incredibly important.

Again, that's a role of advisor, is to help think about and then identify ways that we can digest that and then make a decision, but not leave it until that point in time in which it's a critical decision and it's packed with all of the emotions of a loved one just passing on.

You know, I think that people can identify, families can identify certain objects mean something, you know, the grandma's pie plate, grandfather's pipe or a picture on the wall. However, if you have a family that has a family farm or property.

I think you and I have talked about a particular case where someone has four children. Two of them are inclined to keep the family farm or property.

Two of them really don't want to have the administrative challenges that may come with that property.

And then thinking creatively of how to include everyone without anyone feeling like they're being left out or not receiving what they would consider their share. Can you share a little bit about that story or that example a little further?

And it oftentimes comes up and you raise a good example. Family farms, family businesses might be a bit of that as well.

And especially if that item is the lion's share of the overall economic wealth of the family. In other words, if 90% of the net worth is embedded in this family farming operation. And the idea is that I've got four kids and I want to divide my.

My estate up equally amongst my four children.

Two of them maybe living on the farm, the farm homestead, or maybe a developed house on that homestead, and two of the kids living away from that farm, maybe in another state. How do you divide that equally?

Well, again, that's the role of the advisors and the advisory team is to start to talk about ways that we can start to address it. And the starting concept might be that in some instances, equitable doesn't always mean equal.

We don't have to start with the assumption that it has to be divided 25% amongst these four kids.

And we've worked with some families where we've done some things to maybe divide up assets a bit more equitably based upon, for instance, the input of those children, how much they've worked and sustained the operation. We can include provisions that will allow, for instance, some of that wealth to transition in terms of buyouts.

We can fund those buyouts maybe with things like life insurance, which coincidentally comes to value at the very point in time in which it's critically needed.

So including that in the estate plan overall, but having that discussion, having those items identified and those decisions made before you, again, you get to that point where someone's passed on.

And now we're trying to figure out how to divide up an asset that may be difficult to divide and to do it in a way in which it's fair to all of those individuals. And there are ways that we can work through this process doesn't have to be decided right away, but there's a methodology.

Again, that's the role of the advisory team.

Well, that's a lot to think about. That's a lot of great information and a lot to think about. Until next time, what do you think would be a good exercise?

One of the things that I think would be helpful as we think about what we've talked through today, and as a takeaway, first item, is go back and look at what you have in place right now. What wills do you have?

Do you have any, first of all, and if you do, how old are they and have any life circumstances changed since the point in time in which those wills have been drafted?

Maybe, for instance, there's been a birth, a death, a marriage, something that impacts the provisions of those current documents and in turn, really good reason to review them, perhaps, maybe even redraft them. That one item on its own probably valid, but it also points out another piece and something to consider as we think about our next session.

Paul One of the things that we're going to delve into is this idea of helping a family to build their own navigation system for this estate planning discussion. And as a result, we're going to talk through a way of developing that.

But thinking ahead to that, ask yourself some questions that will then start to in turn help you digest what we talk about in that third session. For instance, what makes you who you are as a family? What values are important to you?

Do you have areas of passion that you feel strongly about, perhaps something like cancer research?

Those pieces become the items, the parts that will assemble into your family's GPS unit, this navigation system that will help not only the estate planning process now, but that process as it evolves over the course of maybe years or decades. And it'll make the role of your advisors and your advisory team more efficient, and it will ease that process.

So starting to think now about who you are as a family, what values you hold dear, what are the things that are important to you? Do you have areas of passion? Do you have thoughts around what you would like younger generations to know?

Next session, Paul we're going to start to build that into a navigation system and talk through that process.

But between now and then might be helpful for those listening to start to think that through so that when we get to that conversation, they can start piecing some things together rather quickly.

That's excellent. That is excellent.

And I know that it's going to be yeoman's work to even sit down and think through some of these things, because we have tyranny of the urgent, that which is right in front of us, and we postpone things that are very important as quickly as other things. So my encouragement to families, stop off at your favorite coffee shop.

Really block out some time to have good conversations as you begin to think, work through some of these things. Well, listen, I want to thank you both for coming today, for joining. Jim, thank you for sharing your wisdom and your insight.

We've got a, we've got quite the punch list to work on and we look forward to getting together again and learning about how to create a family gps.

Paul, I appreciate you allowing us to be a part of this and you and I have talked about a lot of these ideas in the past and I love, love the idea of being able to share them directly with, with individuals. This is a process and the more we can talk it through, give folks a chance to digest it, the process becomes more digestible.

But at the end of the day, we're happy to be a part of it. And so thank you for today and thank you for letting us be a piece of, of this really incredibly important series.

Well, my pleasure. It's, it's an honor and just a pleasure to work with both of you.

Jim, there is a piece that Nuveen needs to share regarding the importance of understanding that Nuveen is working with Ellis Wealth Management for this podcast, but there's some components that Nuveen wants to make sure that everyone understands. Would you be willing to share that again?

Sure, we'll do so here.

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Well, thank you very much and until next time, let me encourage everyone to always invest in what you love.