The position that we view our lives are based on how we gained learned experiences from a variety of different interactions. Whether that has been from a personal or professional context, that framework where we had a positive (or negative) experience imprints onto us, which sometimes can forever leave a mark on ourselves, and even others. Being able to see ourselves outside of this means seeing it from a "different seat", purging any shame from our lives, and working with others that are willing to nurture this type of healthy environment. Licensed Independent Social Worker Jenny Jansen joins today's episode to explore not only the "Three Chairs" concept that helps create frameworks with clients, but to help explore how to create healthy dialogues to challenge the position that we work from. How we treat the various chairs that are described on this episode will not only help to find ways to excel, but to also find paths towards a stronger, more envisioned future.

Guest Bio

Jenny Jansen is a Licensed Independent Social Worker of Clinical Practice (LISW-CP) and Certified Adult Chair® Master Coach. She has always had a passion for helping and relating to others in vulnerable and meaningful ways. Walking through her own journey of healing and self-discovery, she considers herself a student of life and the love child of all she has learned and encountered. She uses a unique blend of tools and techniques from her mental health and coaching backgrounds to help individuals gain self-awareness and courage to release unhealthy patterns, find their truth, connect with their inner knowing, and confidently step into a grounded and conscious life of authenticity and meaningful connection with themselves and others. Jenny is the owner of Conscious Living Therapy and Coaching practice and sees individuals, couples, and families virtually on the local and international levels. She currently lives in South Carolina with her dog, Abby.

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Intro/Outro By: Michael Dugan, Podcast Host: Voice4Chefs

Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and

2

determination all converge into

an amazing, heartfelt experience.

3

This is Speaking From The Heart.

4

Joshua: Welcome back to episode

number 132 of Speaking from the Heart.

5

Today we'll have Jenny Jansen joining us,

and she's a licensed independent social

6

worker of clinical practice, and also

a certified adult chair master coach.

7

She has always had a passion for

helping and relating to others in

8

vulnerable and meaningful ways.

9

Walking through her own journey of healing

and self discovery, she considers herself

10

a student of life, and the love child

of all she has learned and encountered.

11

She uses a unique blend of tools and

techniques from her mental health

12

and coaching backgrounds to help

individuals gain self awareness and

13

courage to release unhealthy patterns,

find their truth, connect with

14

their inner knowing, and confidently

step into a grounded and conscious

15

life of authenticity and meaningful

connection with themselves and others.

16

Jenny is the owner of Conscious

Living Therapy and Coaching

17

practice, and sees individuals,

couples, and families virtually on

18

the local and international levels.

19

She currently lives in South

Carolina with her dog, Abby.

20

I've always found it interesting with

some of the guests that we've had of the

21

stories that have enlightened me, and

possibly even you for that matter, of

22

how they've gotten to where they are at,

but when Jenny started talking about the

23

three chairs, and essentially what it

has meant to walk through each of those

24

different chairs, it started to make me

think about all the different aspects of

25

my life, and the chairs that I have sat in

and spent a lot of time trying to process

26

and develop my true version of myself.

27

Whether you're going through a crisis

in your life, or you're helping somebody

28

else that might be going through

somewhat of the same, just remember

29

that how we overlap with each other

with creating that value, figuring out

30

how to manifest those feelings of being

able to accomplish what we're able to

31

accomplish, but also those connections

that despite what might be going on in

32

our life, discernment, and being able to

work through that discernment, is key.

33

I think that our intention and being

able to address those sort of situations

34

that we have coming up in our life,

can make a big difference in how we

35

stay involved and how we stay engaged,

and you're going to find out how all

36

of those interlap, in this awesome

interview that I will not soon forget.

37

But with that, let's go to the episode.

38

Alright, we're here with Jenny Jansen.

39

Jenny, thanks for sharing

your heart with us today.

40

Jenny: Hey, Joshua.

41

Thanks so much for having me.

42

Joshua: Well, thanks so much.

43

And we've already had a wonderful

conversation before we even started

44

this, so I feel like our listeners

are going to get so much out of

45

this, even today for that matter,

about what we're providing, so-

46

Jenny: I'm so excited.

47

Joshua: Me too.

48

Jenny: I was excited when we were starting

to talk and I was like, "Oh, wait.

49

This isn't part- like, let's,

let's go back and rewind,

50

and share all the awesome.

51

I don't know.

52

We just kind of got into a

really great flow initially, so-

53

Joshua: No.

54

No, I love it, and I think our listeners

will follow up with it too, so Jenny,

55

I've already let them know a lot

about your background and what you do,

56

and I actually want to kick off this

conversation with a simple question.

57

You do therapy work.

58

What got you in this field, because

I always find it interesting how

59

people get into this platform, if you

will, so what got you started in it?

60

Jenny: Well, I say in my previous life,

I was actually a fifth grade teacher, so

61

I started out my career out of college

as an elementary school teacher, and

62

I've always had this drive to help

people, and everyone's like, "Oh, you're

63

so good with kids and you love being

with kids.", and so it just felt like

64

the natural thing to do, but then being

a teacher, it's very challenging, and

65

I realized that I was spending a lot

of my time helping people but in ways

66

that didn't really align with my heart.

67

I love teachers.

68

There is a beautiful place in the

world for teachers, and I was tired

69

of spending it on teaching them the

ocean floor, and function tables, and

70

things like that, and so I found for

me, personally, that the most meaningful

71

experiences that I had as a teacher were

when my kids would say, "Miss Jansen.

72

Can we take a walk at recess?", or, "Can

I talk to you about something?", or like,

73

"Can I sit with you at lunch?", and they

really wanted to connect with me on that

74

heart level about things that they were

going through in their lives, and so, when

75

I felt that my pull away from classroom

educating and teaching into more of the

76

personal teaching of life skills, and

how am I going to navigate my parents

77

getting divorced, or my brother going

to jail, or things like that, I decided

78

to quit teaching and I got into a social

work program, but before that, I hit

79

about a two year period where I called

it, lovingly, I call it my quarter life

80

crisis, where I kind of had to break

myself down, and then realize like, "Okay.

81

What am I actually on this earth to

do?", and got really still and quiet

82

with myself, and pulled myself up.

83

You know, long story short, not pleasant,

but once I got into grad school, I got

84

my master's degree in social work, and

started working in community mental health

85

at that time, and so I like to say part

of it is because being a teacher and

86

wanting to connect with those kids on

that deep level, but also of course, as

87

we were talking about before we recorded,

nobody gets out of this life without pain

88

and suffering, and so of course walking

through my own journey of healing, and

89

self discovery, and going to my own

therapy as a teenager and young adult.

90

I was very inspired by the power

of therapy, and the power of being

91

able to share your story in safe

places and navigate and realize

92

that you're not alone, and that

you don't have to sit in suffering.

93

You don't have to deal with all of the

life things without support, so that's

94

always been my goal as a therapist,

and then later, becoming a certified

95

life coach, is to validate people's

experiences because pain is relative.

96

My suffering is just as important as

you're suffering, just as important as

97

the next person's suffering, and it all

deserves a voice to be heard, and so I

98

think we suffer when we keep our secrets.

99

We suffer when we sit in silence,

and don't believe that we have that

100

safe person to bounce these things

off of, and so that has always been

101

my drive is to be that person for

my clients, and ironically enough,

102

I never ended up working with kids.

103

I see more so teenagers like 13, 14

is probably the youngest that I see,

104

or 12, but majority of my clients

are adults and are learning now how

105

to, basically get what they didn't

get when they were kids and being

106

able to offer that for themselves.

107

Anyway, I think that's my why.

108

That's why I do what I do is to

help people to realize that they

109

don't have to do life alone.

110

I kind of have a dual business

where I have some therapy clients.

111

I have some coaching clients and, just

kind of following my own path, and

112

not trying to fit myself into what I

thought my life was going to look like,

113

and being open to how it's unfolding.

114

Joshua: I can relate to that, because

growing up, I thought, "Oh, I'm

115

going to be a lawyer.", and even my

grandfather, when he was alive, was

116

like, "You're going to be the doctor

of the family.", and I'm like, "No way.

117

I don't have any aspirations for

blood or dealing with those things."

118

Jenny: Yeah.

119

Joshua: And I grew up at a farm, so I've

seen all kinds of variety of life stages,

120

if you will, but even with that, I didn't

have that passion, and I resonate with the

121

fact that we might have one idea in mind.

122

It's almost like taking those tests

growing up of, "What are you going to

123

be as a future version of yourself?

124

What career are you inspiring to be?

125

Astronaut?"

126

Whatever that is.

127

Jenny: Yeah.

128

Joshua: I love that you said you kind

of blend these things together, and I

129

noticed that when we're talking about

this conversation, and I've had other

130

therapists on the show, there's all

kinds of things that blend together

131

as part of our makeup, and you were

talking about, even before we started

132

the show here, about all these different

things that kind of play into your life.

133

Was there like a catalyst maybe of

different life events that created what

134

you had as that aspiration to help others,

because you've talked about what it's

135

meant to help and be able to be that

sounding board, be able to guide them.

136

I'm wondering if there's been

some life events that have shaped

137

and molded you into that too.

138

Jenny: Oh, a hundred percent, and I think

growing up, my mom, she used to joke and

139

say, "You must have an invisible tattoo

on your forehead that says, 'I will

140

listen.'", because I've always just kind

of had that energy of people coming to

141

me and telling me their problems, and

even as a kid, and I say kid, like, you

142

know, teenage stuff; but we all kind

of have experiences, family challenges

143

and I moved when I was in middle

school from New York to South Carolina.

144

That was a pretty big culture

shock and challenge, even though

145

it was the best thing that probably

could have happened for me.

146

I think going through just natural

struggles, I started going to therapy

147

for myself when I was in high school,

and navigating anxiety, depression, but

148

trying to understand that- and this has

been kind of a long standing lesson that

149

I've learned as I've encounter different

life challenges in my adulthood too, is

150

that there's really nothing wrong with me.

151

No human is inherently

bad or inherently broken.

152

We all have our struggles, and it

doesn't mean that we're not worthy of

153

love and connection and healing, and

certain things that may have happened

154

to us, maybe actually happen for us.

155

Not to say that people that go through

trauma it needed to happen in that

156

way, or that it's their fault that it

happened, I'm not saying that at all,

157

but I often think we don't see the

lesson that's coming on the other side.

158

I know I mentioned to you before we

started recording, sometimes we go

159

through these dark valleys in our

lives, and we feel like there's this

160

dark pit, and that was what I call

mine, where I literally had no idea.

161

I don't see the future.

162

I don't hear anything.

163

I don't feel anything.

164

I don't know where my life is going, and

it feels very untethering and very scary,

165

but at the same time, I had to go through

that because then I was able to find

166

my own internal light to guide my way.

167

Instead of looking outside of myself

for the answers, I had to go within,

168

and if I did not have that dark hit,

that dark night of the soul people

169

call it, I would not have come to

empower myself to pull myself out.

170

Joshua: It's kind of like

trial by strength, in a sense.

171

Jenny: Yes.

172

Joshua: Yeah, and we might not even

know too that we have to go through

173

that to get to that other side, but

yeah, as I usually say, "Hindsight's

174

20/20.", especially in that sort of

sense, because we could see it perfectly

175

clear why we went through some of that.

176

Jenny: Oh, we see it on the

other side when it sucks.

177

When you're in it, you're

just like, "Oh my gosh.

178

I can't see my way out of this.

179

What's going to happen?", and that's

where, again, going back to your

180

original question, having that

meaningful connection and being

181

that sounding board for people

to know that they are not alone.

182

I often say to my clients, "I

will meet you in the pits of

183

hell if that's where you are.

184

Hell does not scare me because I've been

there, but I'm not going to carry you out.

185

I'm going to teach you how to walk out.

186

I'm going to walk alongside you as

we get you out of hell, because it's

187

not my job to carry you out, because

then you don't learn for yourself."

188

Joshua: I love that!

189

This is exactly 100 percent why I'm glad

that you're on the show, because I sort

190

of have that same philosophy, because

if we carry those people through, what

191

are they ever going to learn from it?

192

Jenny: Yeah.

193

Joshua: Yeah, it sucks to be in it,

and I was telling you about one of

194

my clients before we started to about

what they're experiencing, and they

195

are literally saying about going

through that hell, but sometimes with

196

going through that, we start to learn

different habits, different ways in

197

which we know we can help ourselves.

198

Sometimes they're not healthy, which

by all means, you need to be able

199

to to recognize the difference, and

that sometimes is very hard, because

200

that's an intrinsic thing, and you

need external help to see what the

201

intrinsic side of what's happening there.

202

Jenny: Yeah.

203

Joshua: But I think you need to

break it down for some people

204

that are so wrapped up in it, so

I have to ask you this because-

205

Jenny: Mm-Hmm.

206

Joshua: You bringing both the therapy

side of this and the coaching side.

207

You have a leg up on me, and I love that.

208

I worship you as I do.

209

Jenny: Oh no.

210

I put my pants on the same way you do.

211

Joshua: Well, that's so true.

212

Yes, and I definitely think that it's

so important though to understand that

213

when we do these things different ways,

and I've say this to other people, and

214

I even say this to even people that

are interested in me to work with.

215

I have certain things that I can provide,

but this person might be a better fit for

216

what you provide, so I'm not hesitant.

217

I'm not shy of doing that.

218

It's not about the business.

219

It's not about generating revenue.

220

It's about being able to help people

get to where they want to be, so that's

221

sort of a unique value proposition

like others, but with that said,

222

you're bringing the therapy and

the coaching together with this.

223

What do you usually tell

people that are stuck in that?

224

Do you help them with a certain

technique that you've developed?

225

Maybe there's something that

you've learned in your training?

226

I'm just curious.

227

What usually is your first go to,

and I know that all situations

228

are unique, but in general, do you

start from a common denominator?

229

Jenny: A lot of times, and of

course people come to me for

230

all sorts of different reasons.

231

I do have the therapy clients, which

I'm licensed in South Carolina, so

232

therapy, like a certain modality.

233

You're a dialectical behavioral,

or want to use your insurance

234

benefits, and things like that.

235

I can only see clients in South Carolina.

236

The coaching is offered worldwide.

237

I have clients internationally as

well, and some of it is an overlap,

238

but at the same time, because a lot

of the tools and techniques that I use

239

are very holistic, even in my therapy

practice, unless they come to me

240

specifically wanting a certain modality.

241

When I start with a client, often

I ask, "What brought you here?

242

What's going on?", and 9 times out of 10,

it is not what they think it is, and so

243

my job is to help be that mirror, that

reflector of where in their lives there

244

are some maybe blind spots, or there

are some missing gaps, or things that

245

they're not able to see, because that's

our job as coaches therapists is we kind

246

of shine light on the things that the

client can't see, because if they can see

247

them, then they wouldn't need us really.

248

I'm trained in a model called The Adult

Chair, which has really been a framework.

249

I call it kind of the secret sauce,

because it's a really beautiful blend

250

of how we develop over time, and why we

are the way we are, and the tools and

251

coping strategies that we've developed

over time that may not really be serving

252

us anymore, so the adults your model

is basically a framework to live as

253

the healthiest version of yourself.

254

The woman who developed this model,

her name is Michelle Chalfant.

255

She broke our lifespan down into three

chairs, so we have the child chair, the

256

adolescent chair, and the adult chair.

257

The child chair is ages zero to six,

and think about a brand new baby.

258

Very vulnerable, very precious,

very curious, core needs, core

259

emotions are on the forefront.

260

If they want a cookie in the store,

they're not going to hesitate to tell

261

you and they're going to throw a tantrum.

262

If they are wet, they are

going to cry and let you know.

263

They don't think about, "Oh.

264

Mom's had a bad day."

265

They have their core needs, and this

is also, though, where we absorb

266

everything about the world without

discernment, because we don't have

267

that part of our brain developed yet.

268

Say dad comes home from work and

starts drinking and gets violent.

269

I might think, "Oh, that's scary.

270

I need to stay away from dad.", or we're

told, "You're a bad girl because you

271

had an accident in your pants.", because

you're potty training and learning.

272

"I'm a bad girl."

273

That's going to be dropped into

our subconscious mind, so we're

274

absorbing everything that we're

hearing, and so around the age

275

of 7 is when our brain starts

developing and our ego comes online.

276

This is when we start to realize

that we're separate, that we

277

have characteristics that are

different than other people, and

278

we start comparing ourselves.

279

Seven is the start of the adolescent

chair, because it goes 7 to 24,

280

which pre-adolescence, adolescence,

and post adolescence, and the way

281

that I framed this chair is our ego

defenses, our protectors; who did I

282

have to become in order to be loved,

and to belong, and to stay safe?

283

This is where we might say, "Oh.

284

I'm going to be the good girl.", or,

"I'm going to be the class clown, because

285

that's the way that I get attention."

286

"I'm going to be the perfectionist,

because that's how I get love."

287

This is when we might numb out some of

those emotions from the child chair,

288

because they're too big, and so this

is where the seed of addiction is born.

289

I don't want to feel this, because

it feels too painful, and it's not

290

acceptable to my parents, for example,

or caregivers, or teachers, or whoever,

291

and so how do I get rid of this feeling?

292

You know, anxiety and depression.

293

We live in the past and the future, and we

make up a lot of stories and assumptions

294

about the world and who we are and

where we fit into it, so this is where

295

I often say this is where we mask up.

296

This is where we hide that inner child,

that authenticity, that true self,

297

because we want to belong, and we want

to be acceptable, and so fast forward.

298

When our prefrontal cortex is fully

online, the adult chair starts at age 25,

299

and so if we had healthy models teaching

us how to communicate our needs, and how

300

to feel our feelings, and how to navigate

life's challenges, and how to live in the

301

present moment, at 25, we kind of slide

into the adult chair pretty seamlessly,

302

and that's where we live with presence.

303

We live in fact and truth.

304

We are able to feel our emotions and

navigate triggers, but oftentimes

305

we're not taught how, and not

for any slight on our parents, or

306

our caregivers, or our teachers.

307

I always believe people are doing

the best they can with the tools that

308

they have, but when people come to

me and they're like, "Well, I don't

309

know what I'm feeling.", or, "I don't

know how to communicate my needs.",

310

oftentimes, it goes back to a belief

that happened in childhood, and so, to

311

answer your question, the way that I

work with clients, most of the time is

312

to really dive- I hate to say use the

word dissect, but we're like little

313

investigators, and so it's like, "Okay.

314

Well, where did this belief start?

315

When did you first learn that it was

not okay for you to share yourself,

316

or that this feeling was not okay?",

and so we might do some inner child's

317

work, reparenting, parts work.

318

I have a part of me that

feels I can't speak up.

319

"Okay, when did that happen?", and

so we'll kind of jump back in time.

320

I do a lot of visualizations with

clients, a lot of past work, but it's

321

not in the therapy way where it's like,

"Oh, let's lay on the couch for weeks

322

at a time, and dissect your childhood."

323

We jump back, and it's very quick.

324

Joshua: Yeah.

325

Jenny: It's like, let's meet with

that part of you that was traumatized.

326

Let's meet with that part of

you and reeducate her, or him,

327

about this is what's true.

328

"Mom and dad didn't know, and it's not

their fault, and they love you.", or,

329

"They did the best that they could.

330

I'm here now as the healthy adult in

your life, and I get to drive the ship.

331

I'm here to navigate.

332

I'm here to help."

333

Joshua: Wow.

334

There's a lot to unpack with what you

said, because there's one part of what

335

you just said that I'm like, "Mm hmm.

336

Mm hmm.

337

Mm hmm.

338

I've been through all those

different parts of growing

339

up in the adult chair model."

340

I'm like, "Yeah.

341

I was a lot more in the child.", but it

was definitely adolescence that I had a

342

lot of issues, so I was thinking about.

343

"Oh yeah."

344

I've had my run ins with the law

when I was 16, and not many people

345

know that, but it's the truth because

of just some things that I was not

346

processing my emotions in a healthy way.

347

There was a lot of, "Yeah.

348

I didn't really have good

relationships with some people,

349

including even my parents.", which

my parents sort of know that.

350

They probably don't, so they probably find

out in this episode that I didn't really

351

have a good relationship with you guys.

352

Sorry-

353

Jenny: Yeah.

354

Joshua: We can talk about it, but it's

the truth, but there's something that you

355

said about navigating those things that I

think is so true is that we don't usually

356

have, and I usually have used the phrase

role models on the show, because of not

357

learning correctly how to address that, so

the question back to you with knowing all

358

this is, with all the clients that you've

had, maybe even what you have right now.

359

Out of the three chairs that you

just discussed, what are most people

360

sitting in, and I'm just reading

them off: the child chair, the

361

adolescent chair, or the adult chair?

362

Jenny: Oftentimes it's

the adolescent chair.

363

Joshua: Mm.

364

Jenny: Because the adolescent is

designed to keep us alive, safe, and

365

acceptable, and who doesn't want to be

alive, safe, and acceptable in the world?

366

Joshua: Yes.

367

Jenny: It's just how

we do that gets stuck.

368

I learn, not me personally, but say I

have a client is like, "Well, I can't

369

speak up for myself because then I'm

going to get yelled at.", or, "I'm going

370

to get rejected.", or, "I'm going to get

abandoned.", or, "I'm going to get broken

371

up with.", or whatever, and so we learn

in this adolescent chair, who do I have

372

to become in order to stay alive, safe and

acceptable, and oftentimes we mask up, and

373

so when clients come to me, they're like,

"I don't understand why I keep running

374

into the same problem over and over

again.", or, "I can't communicate with

375

my husband.", or, "My kids are running

the show and I can't discipline them.",

376

or, "I can't speak up at work.", or, " I

have this anxiety that I can't get rid

377

of.", or, "I'm not sleeping at night.",

and so we get rattled and stuck in time.

378

Most of the time it is in this

adolescent chair, because we're trying

379

to protect the emotions of that child.

380

If emotions are not acceptable, then

we're going to come up with a defense

381

to cover them up, and it doesn't

mean that the emotion goes away.

382

Let's be honest.

383

It just gets buried, and that's

where disease comes up in the body.

384

That's where we come out sideways.

385

That's where people that are road

rage, or, it's like, "I didn't know

386

I had this anger inside of me."

387

I'm like, "Because you buried it

down so far.", and so what we do

388

with clients is help them to kind

of peel back, and sometimes it's

389

a peeling back, layer by layer.

390

Sometimes we just freaking jackhammer

it and go straight to the core.

391

It just depends on the flow of the

session, and what needs to come out,

392

but, most of the time, we are stuck

in our adolescent chair, because it's

393

too scary to feel those feelings;

those core needs and core emotions.

394

That's what we're trying to cover up.

395

Joshua: Have you been just

describing my whole entire life?

396

I think you have been, because

I've literally been sitting here

397

like, "Yeah, that's what I did."

398

"Yep, I also did that."

399

"Oh yeah.-"

400

Jenny: I did that.

401

Joshua: Yeah.

402

Jenny: And so did I, but when we know

better, we do better, theoretically

403

speaking, to quote Maya Angelou,

but, I think so many times I have

404

clients that come to me, they're

like, "Oh my God, I had no idea."

405

It's like, "Well, how could you?",

because we have blind spots.

406

That's why people come to

therapy, and come to coaching,

407

is because we have blind spots.

408

There's things about us that we can't see.

409

I mean I'm very honest, but I have

my own therapist that I see, because

410

I even I can't see all the parts

of myself, and so we need people.

411

We're not meant to do life alone.

412

Joshua: You're a very brave

person to be able to say that.

413

I also have a therapist too , but I mean

it because some people aren't willing to

414

admit that I need help, and I got to show

that, yeah, I got all my S H I T together,

415

which might not even be the truth.

416

Jenny: No, I never claimed to, and

who wants to be with somebody that's

417

got all their S H I T together?

418

Meaningful connections

are my secret sauce.

419

That is what lights my heart on fire, is

having those raw and authentic connections

420

with people, and if I can't relate to

you; yes, I have a lot of tools and

421

techniques that I use with my clients, and

I often say the best version of myself,

422

the healthiest version of myself, is

when I am sitting here, and maybe not the

423

healthiest, because I do like to think

that I have a healthy lifestyle, but-

424

Joshua: We all do.

425

Jenny: Yes.

426

It's like, you know, I walk out

of this office, I've got my own

427

S H I T show waiting for me.

428

It doesn't mean that I get

off scott free with not having

429

struggles and challenges in life.

430

That's why I have my therapist and

I have my friends and I have people

431

that I talk to to help navigate my own

challenges, and I think that that's

432

a beautiful part of mirroring for

people that there is nothing wrong

433

with needing therapy; needing coaching.

434

I think the healthiest people in

the world are the ones that go to

435

therapy and coaching because they

know that they can't do it themselves.

436

Joshua: I would have told you

five years ago, you're insane for

437

saying that, but I would have been

one of those people like, "Yep.

438

I'm not going to go because I know

that will make me seem weak.",

439

and I know you're a female and

let's just call it for what it is.

440

For a male, it's even tougher, because

we're built in this society, and I'm

441

talking specifically United States,

because I've had international listeners

442

as well, that it's really tough to be

able to express those emotions and be able

443

to articulate what is actually going on,

because we're told, "We need to be tough.

444

We need to be strong.

445

We need to be courageous.

446

We need to be able to be all, do all,

see all.", and I think that's where

447

we have so many adolescent issues, so-

448

Jenny: Exactly.

449

Joshua: Because we're not processing

those, because that's the impressionable

450

age that we start to really form a

lot of those different attitudes,

451

beliefs, perceptions, and that makes

me understand a lot more why it

452

took me so long to finally recognize

that it's okay to talk about it.

453

Jenny: Yeah.

454

It's actually very healthy, and that's

again, you hit the nail on the head

455

with that is an adolescent mask-

456

Joshua: yes.

457

Jenny: That many men, cause I do

have several male clients that

458

say the same thing, and it's

like, "Well, I can't do that.

459

I'll be soft."

460

Joshua: Yes.

461

Jenny: Or, "I'll be seen as weak.", or,

"I'll be seen as X, Y, and Z.", and so, I

462

hate to say that's the problem of society

nowadays, but it is, because we are so

463

thirsty for these meaningful connections,

but we're all wearing these sumo suits.

464

We have this armor on, and so how do

you connect at the heart level, when you

465

have all this padding and protection,

and not to say that you need to bear

466

your soul in your heart to anybody that

will listen, because of course we want to

467

have that discernment in the adult chair

that we didn't have at the child chair.

468

We want to have that discernment

of, "Is this person safe?", but

469

knowing that as an adult, I have

discernment now to make those choices.

470

Joshua: Yes.

471

Jenny: To say, "You are a safe person

for me.", whereas in childhood, we

472

may not have had that option, or that

choice, because of circumstances,

473

or for lack of brain development.

474

Joshua: And I think that sometimes the

other part of it that we often miss the

475

mark on is being able to respect the

differences that we all bring to that

476

table, because we all have different

ways in which we're coming from.

477

Sometimes other people are shutting

other people down when we're all saying

478

the same thing, but we're saying it in

different ways, or different words, and

479

I think that also hinders, or happens,

the conversation, and what's the worst

480

example that we could ever mention

that is the problem that we all have?

481

Social media, and because we go on

and do that, and that's a reflection.

482

That's why it saddens me to see the

statistics about the kids that are

483

engaged in social media have the worst

depression, anxiety related symptoms,

484

even suicidal ideations and it scares me.

485

It scares me.

486

Jenny: Because we're all comparing

ourselves to each other, and they

487

are literally both biologically and

energetically in their adolescent

488

chair, and so even when I work with

adolescents now, I know that their brain

489

has not reached that adult development.

490

Their prefrontal cortex is totally not

online, but I love that population,

491

because if I can even plant seeds of

what it means to be a healthy human,

492

and so when I work with adolescents

and teenagers, it's often like, "Okay,

493

well, think about the healthiest version

of yourself, or what would you tell

494

a friend to do?", and those kind of

things to get them out of their space,

495

and I do that with my adult clients

too, but I do believe that social media

496

and comparison is- it's a struggle for

adults, and let alone the kids that

497

are that their brains aren't developed.

498

Joshua: My mom and my dad would

both say growing up, "Well, we would

499

play in the streets until the lights

turned on, and then that's when we

500

know we had to go home for dinner."

501

I almost had this idea in my head of,

and I know this sounds really crazy,

502

and you're probably going to look at

me with four eyes and I understand

503

completely, but I'm like, why don't

we have that sort of time anymore?

504

I mean, I think they have

somewhat of an idea here.

505

Just get the stupid stuff that's

in our hands, or in our ears, and

506

covering our eyes too, because we got

all those devices now as well; the

507

Meta verse, if you will, going around.

508

Why don't we just put those away, and

give ourselves some of that quality

509

time, but don't respond to that

because I want to move on because-

510

Jenny: No.

511

It's fine, but I think it is

coming back to that adult chair

512

and being in the present moment.

513

Joshua: Yes.

514

It is.

515

Jenny: You know, that's

what the adult chair is.

516

It's living with consciousness.

517

It's living in presence.

518

It's living in fact and truth.

519

You know, I could say, look

at social media and say, "Oh.

520

Well, that person has a better life than

I do, or they're happier than I am."

521

Is that true?

522

How do I know it's true?

523

Am I making up a story?

524

Joshua: Yes.

525

Jenny: And then coming back to that,

is it true for me right here, right

526

now, is that I have this, this, this,

and this, and I know we talked earlier

527

about acceptance of the suffering.

528

If I'm not happy in my life, what is

it that is keeping me from being happy,

529

and I first have to accept that I'm not

happy before I'm able to make a change.

530

Joshua: Oh.

531

I got to move on from that because I can

dive into that even more, but, let's-

532

Jenny: That'll be a whole nother episode.

533

Joshua: That's a whole other episode.

534

I think that we could easily

dive into that subject matter.

535

I want to talk about your business because

it is a very fascinating concept when I

536

was looking at it, and for my listeners,

I'll have the website and the episode

537

notes, but it's Conscious Living Therapy

and Coaching; the name of your business.

538

Jenny: Yeah.

539

Joshua: I have never seen this before,

and I've seen a lot of different web

540

pages with a lot of different businesses.

541

You have nine core values, so there's

things from meaningful connections,

542

consistent integrity, heart centered.

543

For my listeners, you have

to go check it all out.

544

It's great content, but out of the nine

values, what would you say, Jenny, is

545

the most important one to you, and I

know that's a big, tall order to ask.

546

Jenny: Oh, I gotta pick one?

547

Joshua: You got to just pick only one,

and yep, I'm putting you on the spot

548

with that, but what's the number one

thing that, through your business, you

549

really want people to be like, "Yeah.

550

When I think of this, that's how I

think of Jenny and her business."

551

Jenny: Radical authenticity.

552

Joshua: Mmmm.

553

Jenny: What you see is what you get.

554

I don't mask up.

555

I don't.

556

I want to be as authentic as

possible, because I don't want

557

you to show up inauthentically.

558

If we want real and that's like,

literally, top value is authenticity;

559

very, very close second, is

that meaningful connection.

560

I may have cheated on the

answer, because I know-

561

Joshua: Yeah.

562

You did actually.

563

I wasn't going to call you out.

564

I wasn't going to call you out.

565

Jenny: I know I cheated.

566

Joshua: Because you could easily

correct to be like, "There's 10.",

567

and then I would look like the

idiot, because there was actually

568

9 at the time of this recording.

569

Jenny: Yeah, it's hard.

570

I mean, those two are my go tos, because

we can't have meaningful connection

571

without authenticity, and so when I

think about what it means to show up,

572

feel, I don't want your fake self.

573

I don't want you to come and say, "Oh.

574

Yeah, everything's great.

575

Everything's this.", because then I'm

going to meet you there, but we're not

576

going to get any meaningful work done

unless we go to those pits of hell,

577

which I often say to my clients, like,

"I will go to the pits of hell with you.

578

I've been there.

579

I've done that.

580

It doesn't scare me, and so let's walk

out together, but I've got to know

581

where you are so that I can be the

best service to you.", and nothing

582

is off limits, and that's where

I think the radical authenticity.

583

I've talked- you wouldn't believe

some of the things people bring up in

584

sessions, and I'm just like, "Okay.

585

Cool, so you drink two bottles

of wine every single night.

586

Boom.

587

All right.

588

Let's talk about it."

589

"Oh, I cheated on my husband."

590

"Okay.

591

Let's talk about it."

592

Nothing is off limits, and I think

when you can really bring your

593

true self, and be witnessed and

seen, it takes the shame out of it.

594

Shame is such a pervasive emotion and

it really serves no purpose to me.

595

That belief that I am just inherently bad.

596

Joshua: I'm sitting here, and I'm

thinking, "What are some of the places

597

in my life, yet, where I still hold

on to shame, and that's not allowing

598

me to be the most authentic?", and

literally, I thought of three things.

599

I'm going to go write about them,

and journal about them now after

600

you saying that, because those three

things, if I let go of those, and I'm

601

really truthful to myself, and I'm

really considerate of the fact that I

602

know I need to work on those things.

603

Wow.

604

The radical authenticity,

those same words.

605

I'm stealing those words right now.

606

The radical authenticity of myself would

just explode, and I feel that's why, like

607

you said, having somebody to be able to

talk about that with is so important.

608

Jenny: And how freeing is it?

609

Joshua: Yeah.

610

It is freeing.

611

Jenny: You don't have to carry that armor

anymore, and I think another quick little

612

side note, you know, a lot of times

clients get guilt and shame mixed up.

613

Guilt is I did something bad.

614

Guilt is a very healthy emotion.

615

Guilt: I cheated on my husband.

616

Okay.

617

Why do you feel guilty about that?

618

It's a behavior that I did that is

not in alignment with my values.

619

Cool.

620

Let's talk about it.

621

Let's realign you with your value.

622

Shame is just that pervasive, "I am bad."

623

What it feels like to me is just

like this nasty slime that's like,

624

"I'm just a bad person.", but I

believe everyone is inherently good.

625

Everyone has good parts.

626

We may have quote unquote, bad behaviors.

627

We may have ways that we get out of

alignment with ourselves, but if we

628

can realign with our heart, and with

our sole purpose and like, "What am I

629

actually here to experience in this life?"

630

Then the other stuff just kind of falls

away, and if we can get back to the

631

truth of who we are, then we'll have

those meaningful connections, which is

632

what makes life rich, and meaningful,

and fulfilling, and beautiful.

633

Joshua: It's all about having that

fulfillment, and even with my clients,

634

I even asked some of them, I actually

have a few right now, we're going through

635

this and saying, "What is your purpose?

636

Have you ever thought about what

your purpose is?", and then they

637

take a step back being like, "No.

638

I've just gone through life, and

I've had to deal with things as they

639

come along.", and it's like, "What's

the purpose of doing those things?

640

Are they helping you to

achieve what those goals are?

641

Are they helping you to become the

best version of who you are?", so-

642

Jenny: How do you become the

healthiest version of yourself, and

643

realign with that every single day?

644

I set three word intentions every

day of like, "What am I intending

645

for?", It can look different.

646

I set like a word of the year, and I

have different things that I do to try to

647

keep myself in a line, and I say aligned.

648

That's actually my word for 2024 is

aligned, and so a lot of times, when I

649

feel off balance, or if I'm tuning in,

and I have more anxiety, not sleeping,

650

or maybe I'm getting sick more often.

651

It's like, "Okay.

652

Where am I out of alignment,

and then how do I get back into-

653

you know, connected to myself?

654

Meaningful connections, not

just with others, but with

655

ourselves, and just own your life.

656

We get this one precious life.

657

Joshua: Mmmm.

658

Yes.

659

Jenny: So how are we going

to make the most of it, while

660

acknowledging the fact that, yes,

there is suffering in the world.

661

Yes, we are going to experience pain.

662

We can't know joy.

663

If we don't know sorrow, we can't know

light if we don't know dark, so we're

664

here to experience that duality, and

learn through contrast, but we don't

665

have to sit in one place or the other.

666

It's not that all or nothing.

667

It's both.

668

Joshua: Yeah.

669

Jenny: And how do we learn to accept

all parts as a beautiful tapestry?

670

Joshua: I was literally just

thinking like the word tapestry

671

and how that all weaves together.

672

Jenny: Yeah.

673

Joshua: Jenny, we're out of time.

674

I mean, this has been

an awesome conversation.

675

There was so many more questions.

676

I'd love to have you back on the show.

677

Jenny: I'd love to.

678

It's been such a great conversation.

679

Joshua: But in the meantime, could you, in

the last few minutes, pitch your business?

680

If people are interested in maybe getting

some coaching, maybe if they're in the

681

South Carolina area, I know I have a

few listeners down there, maybe they

682

are interested in getting some therapy

from you, maybe share a little bit

683

of how they can contact you as well.

684

Feel free to take the last

few minutes to do that.

685

Jenny: Sure.

686

My website is trueconsciousliving.com.

687

I'm also active on social media.

688

Facebook is @trueconsciousliving;

Instagram and TikTok as well.

689

I've bit the bullet and join the TikTok,

so every now and again, I'll post just

690

short clips about life challenges,

or how to overcome certain things.

691

I also have a free download on my website

on uncovering your self worth, so if you

692

go to at trueconsciousliving, there's

a pop up where you can turn in your

693

email and opt in to receive that free

downloads that you can start the journey

694

of uncovering your worth and who you are,

because I think when we own who we are

695

as precious beings on this planet, and

believe that we are worthy of having that

696

meaningful life, that's the 1st step, and

so that's a good, maybe starting point

697

,just to get to know me a little bit.

698

I have a blog that I post every once

or twice a month or so on just various

699

topics, so you can always subscribe

to receive updates to my website and

700

updates to my blog, and yeah, feel free

to reach out via email; via social media.

701

I'd love to connect with you,

see how things are going if

702

there's any way that I can help.

703

Joshua: I will put all that in the

episode notes, and Jenny, I have

704

to say, you've talked a lot today

about what people can go through when

705

it comes to the different chairs.

706

You've talked a lot about what

you are trying to do authentically

707

with what you have as a background.

708

I love the fact that you being a

teacher, beforehand, led you into

709

really helping others, and I think

that having that nurturing attitude,

710

which you certainly have exhibited

today as well, even with me, because

711

I'm like sitting here thinking, "Well.

712

There's a lot of things I can work on.

713

There's a lot of things I can do here.",

but you said it in such a way that,

714

although that wasn't your intention, I

was affected by it, and I can only imagine

715

what others are; how they're impacted by

you, because you carry that aura that's

716

very calming, and also at the same time,

let's get some business done, so like

717

you have that seriousness aspect to it,

and I think that's what's called balance,

718

and we need to have that balance, and-

719

Jenny: Well thank you.

720

Joshua: So I think that, and for all

those reasons, Jenny, thanks so much for

721

being on Speaking From The Heart today.

722

It was really a privilege to

have this conversation, and we'll

723

definitely continue this conversation

in a future episode, so thank you.

724

Jenny: You're welcome.

725

I love that.

726

Thank you so much for having me.

727

Joshua: Again, I want to thank Jenny

for spending time with me, being able

728

to talk about all these different

types of aspects of her life.

729

I think that, in many ways, we serve

as different teachers for each other.

730

Being able to work through the different

parts of our life to find meaning, in

731

order to create that level of engagement

in our lives, oftentimes means that we

732

have to spend time in certain chairs

that we are learning and growing in,

733

whether it's the child, whether it's the

adolescent, or the adult chair, which I

734

feel like I haven't spent enough time in

the adult chair myself, even after hearing

735

this perspective today, but how we find

our way through the pain, and all the

736

suffering, also stems from how we learn

how to grow within our own perspectives,

737

meaning that we are learning some of

these things when we're younger, and still

738

applying some of those same tools today,

and when Jenny was explaining this whole

739

process to me, my eyes lit up, because

now I'm starting to understand how it

740

all connects together, and I think for

many of us, we don't realize how those

741

dots interconnect with each other to be

able to work through some of the stuff

742

that is usually in the basement of our

lives, because we put it in storage.

743

We often forget about it.

744

Subconsciously, we often are working

through all kinds of different things

745

that we have going on in our lives,

but yet, at the same time, that pain

746

and suffering that we're struggling

through, trying to figure out what's

747

the best modus operandi to keep moving

forward, means that we have to suffer.

748

Go through pain.

749

Do this trial by error type of process in

order to work through some of the things

750

that we got going on in our life, because

we have no other role model to turn to.

751

We have to be that person, though,

for others, especially if we see

752

them walking down that same path.

753

Being able to say, "Stop!

754

Don't go down that road!

755

It's too dangerous!

756

I've been down that road before!",

but sometimes we shout so loud, that

757

even we scare those other people.

758

They don't know how to react to

some of the things that we have

759

learned in our life, and they have

to walk down that road themselves.

760

We all have challenges.

761

We all have to find the way in

which we navigate through them.

762

We all live unique lives as a result,

so how do we tether ourselves?

763

One of the things that I think is really

important to understand is that we can't

764

be afraid of what that outcome will

look like down the road, even if we're

765

afraid of what hell might bring for us,

because if we're able to just build, and

766

build, and build, we can prevent some

of these things from ever happening in

767

the first place, which is what I think

Jenny was really trying to say to us.

768

When we look at ourselves in

the mirror, at the end of the

769

day, what's looking back at us?

770

Are we going to be represented by all the

struggles, all the hell that we have been

771

through, or are we actually going to be

appreciative of who we are as a person?

772

Are we going to be able to sit in one

of those three chairs that she talked

773

about, and I think out of anything that

I've ever heard on this show, especially

774

with what she has been certified

in, this makes a lot of sense to me.

775

Are we numbing out these

feelings that we have?

776

How are we trying to go about

eliminating that feeling?

777

Are we just pushing it to the

side, as I'm mentioning earlier?

778

Are we putting it in the basement, or

are we actually going to take it head on

779

which means that we have to navigate, in

a more effective manner, the triggers, so

780

how do we address those wants and needs?

781

How do we get unstuck, especially if we're

stuck in one particular type of chair?

782

How we address those concerns means that

we have to have a mindset, not looking

783

at it from an adolescent perspective, not

looking at it from a child perspective,

784

but perhaps looking at it from an adult

perspective, from what we are, by age.

785

Now, you might be just chuckling to

yourself a little bit, listening to all

786

this, because you might be saying, "Josh.

787

I know of a lot of people that are stuck

in the adolescent chair, they just can't

788

seem to get themselves out of it, and

they're 30, 40, 50, 60 years old, and they

789

never got out of it.", and I understand,

but maybe there's more to what is on

790

the surface, so instead of laughing

about it, why not do something about it?

791

You see I think that part of this is about

being passive and being able to actually

792

address it because we're afraid of what

might be the problem with that person.

793

We're trying to take a little bit

of responsibility for it, but at the

794

same time, we might be doing more

damage by not addressing it head on.

795

Those are real, legitimate concerns,

so when the shit show happens in that

796

person's life because you didn't do

anything about it, whose fault is it then?

797

Theirs, or yours?

798

We have to be able to discern and have

the courage and the bravery to be able

799

to address those sort of circumstances,

especially if we're saying that we

800

are that friend for that person.

801

It really means though

having a reset button.

802

Having that ability to have that space to

be able to create that, because obviously,

803

you wouldn't go up to somebody randomly

and say, "Your life is a shit show."

804

You wouldn't do that, and I

wouldn't do that to anybody,

805

because I've had that happen to me.

806

My life was a shitshow four years ago as

I was doing this whole process of healing,

807

and growing, and figuring out where

I needed to be in this bigger context

808

of what life is all about, and there

wasn't anybody around saying, "You need

809

to fix this, and you need to fix that."

810

It was up to me to seek out that help, so

there has to be a level of responsibility

811

at the same time when we're talking

about this, which I think that we have

812

to figure out what that reset button

looks like, whether that is with somebody

813

else, whether that's through writing

and journaling and figuring out that

814

these are toxic thoughts on our own,

or a combination of both, which is

815

better than doing absolutely nothing,

which most people, I would say, are not

816

thirsty for being able to figure out

what they have going on in their life.

817

Ultimately, it's really about asking the

question, What is true for me right now?

818

What is true for me in the

future, because let's face it.

819

If we're not authentic about what

our intentionality is in terms of

820

working towards what our end goal

is, how we want to be remembered

821

for the rest of our life, we have to

figure out how we can be authentic.

822

In other words, don't be a fake.

823

There's a lot to unpack with what

I've just said the last few minutes

824

to really summarize this, and I think

that if Jenny and I continued this

825

conversation, we would have unpacked

a lot more, but really, what we both

826

discussed today, which I think applies

to all of us, is about how we take the

827

shame out of knowing that we need to

continue to develop ourselves and not

828

be ashamed of who we are right now.

829

You know, I feel in this world that

sometimes we get held back from our

830

limiting beliefs; the things that

we have and we manifest that aren't

831

necessarily true, but yet we have to

keep figuring out ways to keep working

832

forward towards a brand new world.

833

On this show, I've admitted so many

different times to so many different

834

types of individuals that I've had about

the impacts of having some of these

835

conversations and bringing to light some

of the things that even I personally,

836

your podcast host, have to keep working

through, and even with my clients,

837

through my business at Your Speaking

Voice LLC, I have to keep figuring out,

838

how can I consume better content in

my life, so that I'm not always stuck

839

in one of those past chairs that I no

longer believe that I should be sitting

840

in, but what I really think is the whole

important concept of this is really about

841

figuring out the people, the items in our

lives, and the connections that we need

842

to create, in order to truly transform

what we have going on in our lives.

843

It all starts, though, with finding

the teachers and finding the people,

844

that regardless of what kinds of

crises that will come up in our life,

845

whether it's today, tomorrow, or in

the future, that will allow us to

846

keep pushing forward, and to separate

us from that pain and suffering that

847

we have stuffed in the basement.

848

It doesn't mean that we ignore any of it.

849

It just means that we have to find a

better way to embrace it, and today

850

I'm asking you to embrace it, not just

for the things in which you might be

851

sitting in one particular chair and

doing, but how you can get in touch

852

with tethering yourself to a better

support system so that you never have

853

to walk through some of those dangerous,

disgusting things again, because those

854

things, the most extreme of things,

will never repeat themselves, except,

855

if you don't work on your authentic

self to be able to change who you are

856

today to be better for the future.

857

Let's do this.

858

Let's make this happen.

859

All it means is that you have to just

realize that maybe there is just some

860

limited things that are holding you back

today, and all you have to do is just

861

walk forward, because let's face it,

hell doesn't have to scare you anymore.

862

Life doesn't have to be a

shit show, and let's face it.

863

If you develop your brain and you

create those opportunities that allow

864

you to navigate through it, your

future will be much brighter, and

865

much more authentic, than it could

ever possibly be, so get your butt

866

off that chair and sit in a new seat.

867

That hard plastic covering that you've

been sitting on for a long time might

868

have your butt imprint on it, but there's

a new seat waiting for you that is a lot

869

more comfortable, a lot more exciting

to sit in, and I've heard that maybe it

870

gives you a couple extra bonus things

in your life, a little bit of extra

871

tools at your disposal to make you feel

a little bit more comfortable to sit

872

down in, focus your attention, and learn

some incredible things along the way.

873

Thanks for listening to episode

number 132 of Speaking from the

874

Heart, and I look forward to

hearing from your heart very soon.

875

Outro: Thanks for listening.

876

For more information about our podcast

and future shows, search for Speaking From

877

The Heart to subscribe and be notified

wherever you listen to your podcasts.

878

Visit us at www.yourspeakingvoice.biz

for more information about potential

879

services that can help you create

the best version of yourself.

880

See you next time.