From competitions to vocal bootcamps with Betty Wright, this episode is all about the phenomenon of Danity Kane and the cultural moment that birthed them. Jay Ray and DJ Sir Daniel reflect on the group’s reality TV origin story and the drama! Getting sent home and called back, endless rehearsals, and the very real work it took for them to become a chart-topping act. They consider whether manufactured groups can be “real,” how Danity Kane fits alongside Destiny’s Child, SWV and En Vogue, and why their reunions still pack out venues with fans who grew up with them.
00:00 Intro Theme
00:16 Welcome to the Show
00:37 Danity Kane: The Phenomenon
01:49 Making the Band: A Reality TV Revolution
03:42 Danity Kane's Journey and Impact
08:54 The Legacy of Danity Kane
11:48 Reflecting on Reality TV and Girl Groups
21:55 Individual Successes and Final Thoughts
24:16 Conclusion and Farewell
25:34 Outro Theme
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Welcome to another episode of Queue Points Podcast.
Sir Daniel:I am DJ Sir Daniel.
Jay Ray:And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as
Jay Ray:Johnnie Ray Kornegay III and Sir Daniel.
Jay Ray:We, since the start of Queue Points have often talked about what
Jay Ray:happened to the girl groups, right?
Jay Ray:Well, there was one girl group that in the kind of later years,
Jay Ray:like the, the two thousands,
Sir Daniel:Yes.
Jay Ray:was a phenomenon and we gonna talk about 'em.
Sir Daniel:Absolutely.
Sir Daniel:Um, I'm going to say right here in the beginning of this, um, this conversation.
Sir Daniel:Danity Kane is probably the most successful girl group put together
Sir Daniel:on a nationally televised, um.
Sir Daniel:Game show, I mean, which on a reality show, uh, which was making the band,
Sir Daniel:um, Jay Ray just reminded me that that show is over 20 years old and I cannot
Sir Daniel:believe that much time has passed since we were fir we were introduced
Sir Daniel:to Dawn Aubrey, um, Dominique,
Jay Ray:Uh, yeah.
Jay Ray:Dominique.
Sir Daniel:Jamila, uh, all the girls and, and.
Jay Ray:to go ahead to Queen
Sir Daniel:You know, all the girls and of course the amazing Laurieann Gibson,
Sir Daniel:all people that made that show good television because not for nothing.
Sir Daniel:It was great television.
Sir Daniel:Jay Ray.
Jay Ray:Yeah.
Jay Ray:So when we think back to contextualize, uh, this era of making the band, so
Jay Ray:there's kind of like pre Diddy, there's, there's Diddy, and then there's pre Diddy.
Jay Ray:So.
Jay Ray:Um, I think as, as we've mentioned on this show before, there was a version of making
Jay Ray:the band that was headed by Lou Perlman.
Jay Ray:Lou Perlman was responsible for all of the white pop boy bands, so
Jay Ray:nsync, Backstreet Boys, et cetera.
Jay Ray:O-Town.
Jay Ray:So O-Town actually I think came out of the first making the band, I think they were
Jay Ray:the, the, the band that was made and, um.
Jay Ray:Uh, that's a whole lot of different stories to talk about with Lou
Jay Ray:Perlman, but I think Right.
Jay Ray:But I think the, the, the interesting thing is Diddy clearly read the
Jay Ray:tea leaves of his career, um, and.
Jay Ray:And realized that one hip hop was changing, r and b was changing,
Jay Ray:and that in order for him to remain on top, he needed to go to tv.
Jay Ray:And so then we could of course get Making the Band One.
Jay Ray:Well, the Making the Band With the band, which was a wild name for a
Jay Ray:group of people that weren't a band.
Jay Ray:Duh band.
Sir Daniel:The band.
Jay Ray:But then it was this one though.
Jay Ray:Yeah.
Sir Daniel:So I was gonna say, um, if we, if we had to rank the making of the
Sir Daniel:band franchises, I, this is my statement, I would say number one is Danny d Kane,
Sir Daniel:and then, then the band comes in number two, and then I would, um, day 26 comes
Sir Daniel:in at number three for me as far as.
Sir Daniel:Enjoyability of a show, that's how I would rank those three, um, franchises.
Sir Daniel:Would you agree?
Sir Daniel:That's fair.
Jay Ray:I absolutely agree.
Jay Ray:Um, what's interesting about, uh, uh, this particular, the Danity Kane era of
Jay Ray:making the band is this kind of became appointment television for me and.
Sir Daniel:For sure.
Jay Ray:Yeah, like, and, and, and, and I had moved away from I think
Jay Ray:reality TV as like my primary thing.
Jay Ray:Um, but for whatever reason there was something about, uh, these
Jay Ray:young women coming together to form this group and not knowing
Jay Ray:what was come gonna come out of it.
Jay Ray:So I remember even when Danity Kane was selected, feeling like I didn't
Jay Ray:know where Diddy was gonna go.
Jay Ray:You know what I mean?
Jay Ray:Because there was such a diverse mix of young women to choose from.
Jay Ray:But I absolutely agree, and this was appointment television at the time when
Jay Ray:reality TV was like really, really growing and we were literally getting a group out
Jay Ray:of this group that was uh, group, out of this show that was kind of formidable.
Jay Ray:These girls could sing.
Sir Daniel:They could actually sing.
Sir Daniel:And so here's the, the, the, the distinction between the monster that
Sir Daniel:American Idol was 'cause remember by, at this time, American Idol has been
Sir Daniel:around for at least four years now.
Sir Daniel:Right.
Sir Daniel:But what was distinctive about between making the band and, and um, American
Sir Daniel:Idol is that they literally, they were following the contestants outside of just.
Sir Daniel:The actual show and the competition, like everything became part of
Sir Daniel:the show where they were living, living in a house together.
Sir Daniel:They wanted, they made sure that they showed every single piece
Sir Daniel:of this growth, of this, um, experimental, this experimental show.
Sir Daniel:They wanted to show every piece of the journey to everyone.
Sir Daniel:And so, um.
Sir Daniel:I also think what's so interesting is that now we now know that Diddy,
Sir Daniel:this show was a vehicle for him
Jay Ray:Yes.
Sir Daniel:and made him, still made him a household name.
Sir Daniel:But what was so diabolical j Ray, is that he literally only showed up like maybe.
Sir Daniel:In two parts of the show, he might do like a, a video call, which is very Tyra Tyra
Sir Daniel:s Tyra mail, you know, and then he come in at the end, excuse me, and his entrances.
Sir Daniel:It would be so ominous.
Jay Ray:do so Diddy's here guys.
Jay Ray:You know what I'm saying?
Sir Daniel:Yes.
Jay Ray:And he'd walk in.
Jay Ray:So girls, ladies, what's up?
Jay Ray:You looking a little chunky,
Sir Daniel:to line up right now and be ready to perform.
Sir Daniel:So, so characteristic of Diddy.
Sir Daniel:Absolutely.
Jay Ray:It really was.
Jay Ray:And I think.
Jay Ray:As so we, we, we get the opportunity, uh, to see this group get selected.
Jay Ray:And so the season finale of kind of Danity Kane season is
Jay Ray:when they pick the group, right?
Jay Ray:And, um, first out the gate.
Jay Ray:Who became a like a star?
Jay Ray:The show was Aubrey.
Jay Ray:Right.
Jay Ray:So Aubrey is the first name out the hat, which was not surprising
Jay Ray:to me because she became kind of a central figure of, of the show.
Jay Ray:She became a breakout star of the show and quite frankly, I actually thought
Jay Ray:that she was gonna do a whole bunch of other stuff, like I think she was
Jay Ray:really poised to, but yeah, so he pulls her name out and then we get the
Jay Ray:other girls that he, he selects, but.
Jay Ray:I remember specifically Aubrey O'Day sticking out among
Jay Ray:these, these young ladies.
Jay Ray:Like she was almost a s shoe in.
Sir Daniel:Totally.
Sir Daniel:And so before we go any further further with that, let's not, we would be
Sir Daniel:remiss if we did not remember that there were two seasons out of this
Sir Daniel:Literally people were, everybody was sent home at the end of the first season and
Sir Daniel:everybody was just completely dumbfounded.
Sir Daniel:Like, what's happening?
Sir Daniel:What?
Sir Daniel:We just spent however many months in this house learning choreography,
Sir Daniel:learning to sing together, um, meeting each other and um, and
Sir Daniel:learning each other's personalities.
Sir Daniel:But now we're just going home,
Jay Ray:Yeah.
Sir Daniel:which is diabolical in itself.
Sir Daniel:But to your point, I, and I said this off air, I really do believe
Sir Daniel:that Arbery from the beginning showed that she had a business acumen before
Sir Daniel:when she came into the competition that none of the other girls had.
Sir Daniel:And then on top of that, she was kind of, you know, she was a
Jay Ray:was like, she was the sex symbol, you know?
Jay Ray:Um, she fit the brand of that era of
Sir Daniel:she did, but she wasn't giving, and to her credit, she
Sir Daniel:wasn't giving white girl trying to be black or trying to affect, you
Sir Daniel:know, have that kind of effect.
Jay Ray:Yeah.
Jay Ray:So I think what's interesting, and I'm glad you mentioned, uh,
Jay Ray:kind of the Danity Kane piece kind of broken out into two seasons.
Jay Ray:One of the things I think is the most interesting 'cause
Jay Ray:here's what we're seeing now.
Jay Ray:So as of the time of us recording this.
Jay Ray:There is another Danity Kane, reunion, Danity Kane reunion.
Jay Ray:There have been three, like three, um, this is the third.
Jay Ray:And seeing the crowd's reaction to them had us off air as
Jay Ray:we were preparing for this.
Jay Ray:Really thinking through like, what is it?
Jay Ray:And I truly do believe Sir Daniel that.
Jay Ray:Us watching these women go through this process developed
Jay Ray:like a relationship with them.
Jay Ray:So no matter what version of Danity Kane people get to see they are in, the
Jay Ray:audience is in, because they're just in for their girls being on stage together.
Jay Ray:And we got to watch them record all of these songs on the show too.
Sir Daniel:We got the, to watch them record these songs, these
Sir Daniel:classics, we gotta see them.
Sir Daniel:Um, do learn dance routines.
Sir Daniel:I don't think so.
Sir Daniel:I don't think we all, um, realized that, that
Jay Ray:Right.
Sir Daniel:that song actually, who did that belong to?
Sir Daniel:Was that, um, was that Sherry?
Sir Daniel:Was that Sherry?
Sir Daniel:It was another bad boy artist that that
Jay Ray:It might have been, it might have been Sherry Dennis.
Sir Daniel:And, but we knew it immediately because the beat, we
Sir Daniel:heard that beat ad nauseum when it came time for, uh, for dance copy.
Sir Daniel:Oh, attention My Body.
Sir Daniel:We knew those songs down pat.
Sir Daniel:And so when it came time for them to be a, a fully realized group with
Sir Daniel:an actual album to their credit.
Sir Daniel:Absolutely, it makes total sense.
Sir Daniel:So when I see the reunion footage, these girls never not have a sold out show.
Jay Ray:Right.
Sir Daniel:The shows are packed.
Sir Daniel:Um, there are people buying their records and going to see them.
Sir Daniel:It just makes sense.
Sir Daniel:We're talking about a group that has sold 1.5 million records
Sir Daniel:worldwide or no, in the us.
Jay Ray:In the us.
Jay Ray:Mm-hmm.
Sir Daniel:Three albums to their name self-titled, welcome
Sir Daniel:to the Dollhouse and DK three,
Jay Ray:Mm-hmm.
Sir Daniel:excuse me.
Sir Daniel:It just mar rutabaga.
Sir Daniel:It just makes total sense that we, that the audience that has
Sir Daniel:literally grown up with them, just like we said at the beginning,
Sir Daniel:this, that show is 20 years old.
Sir Daniel:20 years old.
Sir Daniel:So think about it, you are what, maybe 13, 15?
Sir Daniel:Watching the show, you are almost about to be 40.
Sir Daniel:You grew up with those girls?
Jay Ray:You know, this brings up a question.
Jay Ray:Um, now, sir, I'm curious to know where you land on this.
Jay Ray:Assembling a group is not a new phenomenon.
Jay Ray:That happens all the time in music.
Jay Ray:So many of the groups that we love, bands that we love, have been assembled bands.
Jay Ray:Um, but because this group was assembled on tv, how do you or do
Jay Ray:you like, um, are they a real group?
Jay Ray:Is Danity Kane a real group?
Jay Ray:You know what I mean?
Jay Ray:Like what does that look like?
Jay Ray:I don't know.
Jay Ray:I just thought about that.
Sir Daniel:I, well, I think they are a real group because they've done,
Sir Daniel:aside from the, the music part of it, cr going in and recording albums.
Sir Daniel:Um, practicing for their stage performances, the photography, the
Sir Daniel:touring, and then getting, getting, um, taken advantage of by the music industry,
Sir Daniel:um, being broke at times.
Sir Daniel:Um, disbanding coming back together.
Sir Daniel:Whether it was three or whether it was five, all of those things are
Sir Daniel:hallmarks of being a real group.
Sir Daniel:So I say yes, they're absolutely a real group.
Jay Ray:You're absolutely right.
Jay Ray:And um, it's so funny, this makes me, uh, this makes me think
Jay Ray:of when you were talking about like their, their three albums.
Jay Ray:Lemme tell you something.
Jay Ray:Damaged by Danity Kane.
Jay Ray:I don't care how, when that song comes on, that song is a bop all day.
Sir Daniel:You
Sir Daniel:do.
Jay Ray:Jams galore.
Jay Ray:But, um, and I'm curious to know, uh, uh, uh, the thing either Danity
Jay Ray:Kane related or otherwise related to making the band that you remember most.
Jay Ray:But I will tell you when I was doing research for this, 'cause I hadn't
Jay Ray:listened to the first Danity Kane record in, you know, a long time.
Jay Ray:It's a 20-year-old record now, but I remembered when I
Jay Ray:read the title Sleep on it.
Jay Ray:I could not get out of my head watching that show and watching Dawn Richard in
Jay Ray:that studio being Badger to get this right and it was these dudes like I
Jay Ray:could, it was everything about that.
Jay Ray:These dudes.
Jay Ray:That was just flummoxing her, but not her.
Jay Ray:It was what it was being required of her from the producer.
Jay Ray:Right.
Jay Ray:And it is just a moment that I'm like, man, sleep on it.
Jay Ray:And these dudes, I know Dawn was going through.
Sir Daniel:So for me, one of the, aside from the.
Sir Daniel:The choreography moments.
Sir Daniel:One moment that always sticks out to me is when they, they were truly
Sir Daniel:blessed to have this when they would have those vocal coach sessions with
Sir Daniel:Betty Wright, who is a frigging icon.
Sir Daniel:Okay.
Sir Daniel:Is an icon.
Sir Daniel:They, they, they did the thing when they got Betty Wright to be their vocal coach.
Sir Daniel:But there was one episode in particular where, um, Aubrey was getting frustrated.
Sir Daniel:Was it Aubrey or was it Shannon?
Sir Daniel:It was one of the, two of them was getting, not frustrated, but
Sir Daniel:Betty wasn't feeling it from them.
Sir Daniel:She
Jay Ray:I think I can see it.
Jay Ray:Right, right.
Jay Ray:Because it was
Sir Daniel:she was feeling it from that.
Sir Daniel:From their undergird.
Sir Daniel:From their undergird.
Sir Daniel:She wasn't feeling it.
Sir Daniel:And they were singing this one line over and over.
Sir Daniel:I love you
Jay Ray:you.
Jay Ray:I would never, and but, and then for ever.
Sir Daniel:And they kept, they had to sing it in harmony.
Sir Daniel:They had to sing it solo.
Sir Daniel:They had to sing it in rounds.
Sir Daniel:And let me tell you something, I would be sitting watching that show in tears.
Sir Daniel:In tears because now there's an, I have an earworm of I Love You Forever,
Jay Ray:to.
Sir Daniel:and Betty Wright's sitting there with a drumstick and, and one snare.
Sir Daniel:Like, pow, pow, pow.
Sir Daniel:Come on, let me, I need to feel it.
Sir Daniel:I need to feel it.
Sir Daniel:Those are the things that endeared us to
Jay Ray:Yes.
Jay Ray:Oh my God.
Jay Ray:Um, when we take a look at
Jay Ray:Danity Kane as a group and their impact, because I think that's the
Jay Ray:other thing that we, we forget, is that they actually were, they had hit songs.
Jay Ray:These records were hits and they were, their audiences were
Jay Ray:huge fans of these records.
Jay Ray:I'm wondering what you think.
Jay Ray:The lasting legacy of this group is
Sir Daniel:Hmm,
Sir Daniel:Hmm.
Sir Daniel:I think their legacy is, is that yes, you can be,
Sir Daniel:um, you can be put together, you can be, um,
Sir Daniel:yeah, you can be put together, manufactured right.
Sir Daniel:However, there comes a time that you become, you assume
Sir Daniel:the identity of said group.
Sir Daniel:That identity becomes a part of you, and I think that they show that regardless
Sir Daniel:of how you come to how you're brought together, once you gel as a group.
Sir Daniel:And you had, and that chemistry is undeniable regardless of
Sir Daniel:how you all got together.
Sir Daniel:You can still be, uh, a group that has something to contribute
Sir Daniel:to the industry, to the arts.
Sir Daniel:It doesn't matter how you come together, but once you use those experiences
Sir Daniel:and you actually build and grow together, like, I think that's the,
Sir Daniel:so the legacy then is there has to be.
Sir Daniel:Uniformity.
Sir Daniel:There has to be practice, there has to be rehearsal in person.
Sir Daniel:I know we're in a, a virtual kind of world these days, a digital world where
Sir Daniel:people wanna, oh yeah, I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna put my verse on the phone
Sir Daniel:and drop it to you, airdrop it to you.
Sir Daniel:None of that stuff.
Sir Daniel:They show that if, even if you are a manufactured group, if you put
Sir Daniel:in the hard work, uh, and the, and the, um, and use the processes of.
Sir Daniel:Olden days, you can be considered, you can, you can, um, solidify
Sir Daniel:yourselves as a legendary group.
Sir Daniel:You can have a career that is worth that people will be talking about,
Sir Daniel:like Queue Points 20 years later.
Jay Ray:That's so dope because when you think about it, um, and girl groups
Jay Ray:are so important to music history, particularly black music, right?
Jay Ray:Like girl groups mean something, those harmonies, that connection,
Jay Ray:those dance moves, et cetera.
Jay Ray:Um, as we talk about groups like.
Jay Ray:Uh, Destiny's Child and SWV and in Vogue, right?
Jay Ray:You still put Danity Kane there.
Jay Ray:And Danity Kane is one of the, of that era.
Jay Ray:They are one of the last girl groups to be like a big hit.
Jay Ray:Um, they might be the last, if we, if we really look back on the history.
Jay Ray:I haven't researched it.
Jay Ray:I know y'all gonna let us know in the comments.
Sir Daniel:look, we know y'all liked y'all, fifth Harmony and
Sir Daniel:all that other stuff, but they just weren't around long enough.
Sir Daniel:I'm sorry.
Jay Ray:It's a different kind of group and I guess people could
Jay Ray:say the Pussycat Dolls, but were those other girls even singing?
Jay Ray:Except that one girl, she let us know.
Sir Daniel:She let she,
Sir Daniel:every time I think about it, it cracks me up.
Sir Daniel:Melanie Let Nicole Burger, I think, is that her name?
Sir Daniel:Nicole,
Jay Ray:Mm-hmm.
Sir Daniel:know that my mic is on.
Sir Daniel:And you are gonna, I know I'm about to get a pink slip after this, but
Sir Daniel:y'all are gonna know that my mic
Jay Ray:Baby.
Jay Ray:What did she do?
Sir Daniel:be on.
Sir Daniel:She, she did a Oh whoa.
Sir Daniel:In front of everybody, and Nicole was so heated.
Jay Ray:my God.
Jay Ray:The look on her face was amazing.
Jay Ray:But, um,
Sir Daniel:have.
Jay Ray:but yes, Danity Kane gets said along with all these other names, right?
Jay Ray:And, and holds their own.
Jay Ray:And, um, it does make me a little bit nostalgic for these
Jay Ray:kind of competition shows.
Jay Ray:'cause now of course we still have like the voice and like the X factor.
Jay Ray:What's the one?
Jay Ray:Uh, America's Got Talent, but this is different to your point.
Jay Ray:This was like, no, we are putting together a group.
Jay Ray:And um, it does make me a little bit nostalgic even
Jay Ray:though the music industry isn't.
Jay Ray:It wouldn't respond to that.
Jay Ray:It's like,
Sir Daniel:at all.
Jay Ray:how many followers do does that girl have?
Jay Ray:You know what I mean?
Sir Daniel:Which girl?
Jay Ray:No, I'm just saying no.
Jay Ray:That would be something the music
Sir Daniel:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sir Daniel:They, they'd wanna know.
Jay Ray:Yeah.
Sir Daniel:So lemme see.
Sir Daniel:I was looking at your
Jay Ray:Instagram.
Sir Daniel:Um, first of all, it took me a long time to find it,
Sir Daniel:so we've been working on that.
Sir Daniel:How many followers do you have?
Jay Ray:I know you can sing and everything.
Jay Ray:Mm. A thousand, uh, sorry, baby.
Jay Ray:Um, but I, I do adore Danity Kane.
Jay Ray:Um, I have a soft spot for Dawn Richard, um, and I feel like she has made the most.
Jay Ray:One, she's made the most consistent music.
Jay Ray:She's got the most consistent music career out of all the girls, um, and has, uh,
Jay Ray:uh, uh, just been killing it for like a really long time on the independent side.
Jay Ray:So she's not only a performer, but she's also a business person.
Jay Ray:And she loves, she definitely wants people to know that, hey,
Jay Ray:I'm running this thing myself.
Jay Ray:And, um, but listen, we wouldn't have a dawn and we wouldn't have
Jay Ray:that creation without this group.
Jay Ray:So.
Sir Daniel:Right, the same way I gave, um, Aubrey, her
Sir Daniel:props for her business acumen.
Sir Daniel:I, we knew off the bat that Dawn.
Sir Daniel:Was a complete artist when she came on the scene.
Sir Daniel:I mean, quick to write,
Sir Daniel:quick to pick up choreography, everything.
Sir Daniel:So yeah, Dawn Richard has true, truly, truly led the way in creating her own.
Sir Daniel:Um, path in this as an artist.
Sir Daniel:And, you know, shout out to Shannon because Aubrey and Shannon had a
Jay Ray:Dumb blind was
Sir Daniel:dumb blondes, which is very successful.
Sir Daniel:And, um, D Woods of course, um, is an actress.
Sir Daniel:We all, we've all seen D Woods and TVs or or stage player
Sir Daniel:near you, so shout out to them.
Jay Ray:Yeah, we wanted to spend some time, y'all just kind of, um, one big
Jay Ray:in these women up, but also celebrating the fact that, uh, this show happened.
Jay Ray:Um, and it is a, it is lightning in a bottle.
Jay Ray:I don't know that we could ever do this thing again.
Jay Ray:Um, with Sister Lorianne.
Jay Ray:Um,
Sir Daniel:Listen, the sixth member of Danity Kane is Laurieann Gibson.
Sir Daniel:Laurieann Gibson, not for nothing.
Sir Daniel:Probably the breakout star of making the band.
Jay Ray:Honestly.
Jay Ray:Yeah, I was, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jay Ray:That's real.
Jay Ray:I know I said Aubrey, but Loriann was definitely like a character unto her.
Jay Ray:You were waiting for her to, what is she going to say?
Jay Ray:What is it like this like, like this?
Sir Daniel:It's this, it's not, it's too much.
Jay Ray:Love Lorianne y'all.
Jay Ray:Thank you so much for tuning into Queue Points.
Jay Ray:As always, let us know your favorite making the band moment, uh, particularly
Jay Ray:from the Dandy Kae seasons, but if it's from another season, let us know.
Jay Ray:I know y'all going to talk about them going up to get that cheesecake,
Jay Ray:uh, in the, the, the band season.
Jay Ray:But, um.
Jay Ray:Let the fuck.
Jay Ray:It's a different time, but subscribe.
Jay Ray:If you can see our faces and hear our voices subscribe.
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Sir Daniel:It's like I say, in this life, you have a choice.
Sir Daniel:You can either pick up the needle or you could let the record play.
Sir Daniel:I'm DJ Sir Daniel.
Jay Ray:My name is Jay Ray.
Sir Daniel:And this is Q Point's podcast, dropping the
Sir Daniel:needle on black music history.
Sir Daniel:We will see you on the next go round on the one and the two, not
Sir Daniel:Ah, okay.
Jay Ray:Peace