Clint Bruce is a former Navy Special Warfare Officer, a graduate of the US Naval Academy, decorated athlete, former NFL player, and seasoned entrepreneur. He is dedicated to helping leaders protect, perform, endure, and compete while helping veterans and their families transition successfully from service.In this episode Clint shares lessons from the ballfield, the battlefield, and the boardroom (and the farm)Clint is humble, authentic, inspirational, and REAL – Enjoy!

Check out this link  https://www.clintbruce.com

01:58 – Clint’s story

05:10 – Wisdom from the farm

20:00 – The Todd Ballard connection and “building high ground for hard days”

29:00 – Vulnerability in the Special Ops team

32:00 – Learning and performing at the same time

34:10 – Are you climbing the right ridgeline?

38:00 – Authentic leadership

45:00 - Trust

47:05 – Advice to your 25-year-old self

49:04 – Asking the difficult questions

52:00 – Open door policy – do you really have it?

56:30 – High-performing team, tactical and moral

58:49 - Gravitas

1:00:03 – Starting the day

1:04:00 – The legacy

[Transcript]

00:04

Welcome to the Finding Gravitas podcast brought to you by Gravitas Detroit. Looking to become a more authentic leader. Finding Gravitas is the podcast for you. gravitas is the ultimate leadership quality that draws people in. It's an irresistible force encompassing all the traits of authentic leadership. Join your podcast host Jan Griffiths that passionate rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales, entrepreneur, leadership coach, keynote speaker, one of the top 100 leading women in the automotive industry as she interviews some of the finest leadership minds in the quest for Gravitas.

Today, you'll meet the humble warrior, the former NFL football player who played for the Baltimore Ravens and the New Orleans Saints, then turned navy seal, he actually worked in Special Ops. He's the self proclaimed worst financial advisor, and a humble guy who is so comfortable in his own skin he shares with us today wisdom from the battlefield and the battlefield. And indeed the farm, we found a farming connection between the two of us. He's focused on the soft skills of veterans and athletes. He talks about building high ground for hard days. And we'll understand what that's all about. He believes that we are indeed all imperfect. And he looks to find the pure version of ourselves. There's a lot to share. Please welcome to the show, Clint Bruce.

It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Clint. What is your story? I know there's a lot to tell about Clint Bruce. But what is your story? Let's go right back to the beginning.

Sure. It's very Forrest Gump, Jan. It should be encouraging to virtually all your listeners that if this guy can, then I can as well. But I consider myself very fortunate. I've had adversity, which I think I'm not unique in this at all. I've always been able to come back to this moral center that was laid in front of me from the time I can remember. So you know, I was born in Arkansas. Part of my family kind of had, had moved out of the ranching and farming into business, my father become a business person that served in the army. And then another half of my family is really in farming and ranching. So I got to see what happens when you export the work ethic and ethos that you have to have if you work with the land, and the patients that you have to have when you work with the land, into the private sector and into all these other business endeavors. So I grew up in Arkansas very grateful for that move down to the Dallas Fort Worth area when I was in middle school. And just had always managed to find a way where I was surrounded by these really amazing people and just trying to keep up with them. I have this theory called Chase pace and pool where you're just chasing the right people. And I've always been an environment that where people who are Chase worthy. So moved out of Garland, Texas, then love football way before football loved me. I joke with people that I was a fifth string fullback in eighth grade, which would have been too bad, but there are only three of the full backs. So they actually skipping a whole position on the depth chart. That's the amount of desperation the team is gonna have to be in in order for me to go in. So I decided very early, whether I love the game, because it was the game or if I love the game, because what it did for me, and I just I just loved being a part of a team. And I didn't resign myself, but I committed myself to being a contributor in whatever way that allowed me to be. So I became probably the most prolific scout team football player and all of Texas when I played every position, I got so many reps. And I think there's a magic that comes with that which will allude to as we continue talking but continue to stay with the team. And that was one coach that just didn't have a lot of faith in. In his defense. It's not like there's a tremendous amount of evidence to support contrary through. I remember he told me, he's like, Hey, stop wasting your mind time and just focus on theater. So I was like, Alright, I'm gonna go to theory. There's two girls there. I'm still playing football just to make you mad. So I kind of went into these two worlds of both theater and performing arts and then stayed in football. And in retrospect, I realized how blessed I was to have done that. I think football gave me a lot of what I needed for the physicality of the Special Operations community. I think theater taught me a lot of the, what I call the nicop performance, the mental strength and resilience to ascend into this persona that the Endeavor needs you to be

Started to have a pretty successful career in high school was getting an opportunity to go play a lot of different division one schools and my senior year my father got sick and passed away at the end of my senior year. So the majority of my senior year my father was in the hospital and you know, it's really interesting. The world tries to sell you a whole lot and you're either going to buy with a rule to sell and you are going to look around at these people that you're chasing, and figure out what they bought and what they bought into and what persisted and what endured. And I learned a lot about how to live by watching my father die. And, and so it was just able to kind of witness that and, and grab on to those things that I saw him holding on to the people that loved him most my mom, my sister, my brother, his friends. And so, through that experience, I always loved the Army Navy game, the Army Navy game had was always extremely special to me, I got interviewed one time by CBS or ESPN one time, and they asked me would tell us about rivalry games. And I said, What do you think? And they listed all these, you know, Michigan and Ohio State and Florida, and Florida State and Georgia. And I mean, all these I love these games I do. And I said, Hey, listen, I love Robert games, but Army Navy stands apart. And they kind of, you know, it kind of took them aback a little bit. And they said, Why do you say that? I said, Will you show me another game where everyone playing is wanting to die for Buddy watching. And I'll tell you that I have company that we have company. And I always want to be a part of that. So I also knew I remember my father told me one time and the way they said now I think is really fitting and ethic is way my father said to me back in 1992, he said, Son, you got to make a 40 year decision and not a four year decision. This is the oldest son had to make some decisions about where I was gonna go try to play and look beyond the battlefield to the battlefield, in the boardroom, in the breakfast tables. You know, so chosen Naval Academy, we're very, very fortunate play football at the Naval Academy. And for a few reasons, one, you know, to be a pretty strong, powerful, angry 18 year old US Naval give me give me substructure that I just didn't really have a place to point that destructive nature and anger except for the football field. Because you can think you're a tough guy until it's 5:30 in the morning and Newport, Rhode Island, and the Silver Star recipient Marine Corps officer comes up to your chest is putting his finger in your chest telling you to lock it up. And you're like, I believe I believe I will lock it up. I'm not sure what that means. But whatever that means is what I'm going to do because you're terrifying. And just get to live in Atlanta scape of heroic men and women who just kind of put their words to work. Study the history of that had a very successful career at the at the Naval Academy is that amazing teammates and amazing coaches that are staying close with now and I'm still close with a with a team now and had an opportunity to play in the NFL briefly was with the Baltimore Ravens and had also been given the tremendous honor of pursuing becoming a Navy SEAL there were only 16 of us at the time that were picked for that. So for me leaving the game was very easy, because in comparison to become an opportunity become a seal, it was very clearly a game. And I'm not diminishing it. Like I love professional sports. And I think professional sports has a unique role in reconciling our nation and athletes and veterans do. But I also knew the game and I knew I could play it. I didn't know how well I could do. I didn't know how long I could stay in NFL but I knew I got there. And here was this ridgeline over here called Becoming a Navy SEAL. And I had no idea if I could do that. And I just kind of feel called to go where I don't know. And so left the NFL went through SEAL training made it again, I had amazing classmates. And we kind of got each other through and when I say someone carried me through I don't think I ever got below 250 pounds when I was going through SEAL training. So carrying me through is no small thing. It's not a that's a they did a lot of work to help carry me through. And then I'm checking the SEAL Team Five had an opportunity to come back out to the NFL in 1999 with the New Orleans Saints and loved it love the opportunity, but it just kind of paled in comparison as far as purposefulness and relevance and the opportunity to be. And there was no desire for me to ever not do it. I said I would wanted to do when I went to Annapolis I wanted to serve. And so for me, I left and went back into the Special Operations community did multiple deployments and learned a lot from some amazing men and women. And then my my bride, who was my college sweetheart had our daughter while I was over and I came home with this nine month girl and I just kind of looked around the Special Operations community and everywhere I looked was, I think someone who's better, faster, stronger, smarter than me and just really came to grips with the fact that the community is ready to replace you at any moment. And there's there's tremendous wisdom in that.

But there's also from me, I looked at who could do a better job than me in the SEAL teams and it wasn't hard to find anyone. But I looked at my bride my daughter and my brother, my sister, my mom and all these other people and I just knew that's where I needed to be I needed to take care of my family. So I left and left the military and and went to the private sector and very quickly became the worst financial advisor. I had amazing company incredible partners, but it was just Like, you know, the minute you're not supposed to be playing a sport or position within a sport, and I knew that very quickly, I would sit down with someone go, Hey, can I manage your wealth? And they go, No. And I'm like, Well, I don't want to manage your wealth. Anyway, I hate you and everything about you, because that's some anger issues I was processing at the time, what about them? About Me? And then I'm also really honest, so I would sit down with someone to go, Hey, can I manage your wealth? Or you better my person? I'm like, well, who's your person? Like, well, she's so and so. And so. And so I'm like, Well, no, there's so much better than me. So you should stay with him, they die, call me, but I'd stay with him. And I think Sports teaches you to defer to talent, like the moment suffers inefficiency very poorly. And when you're talking about wealth that someone's worked really hard to accrue, you have to be very honest with yourself about whether you're the person that should start that game, right, I pulled myself out of the last few snaps in my college career, because we were playing a very prolific passing team. And that wasn't my strength. If they're going to blitz me, keep me in. But if you need me to cover Tony Gonzalez, you probably ought to put someone else in there, because he's really good. And then Katrina happen. Some people in Dallas Forth knew my background. So they asked me to go into Katrina and pull some people out. And I did, I grabbed a few guys that I knew and trusted, and you had a lot of talent and ability and experience. And we went in to New Orleans and pulled quite a few people out. And then once we were done with that, we started just trying to help in the community where we could and came back and went to work. And my bosses were like a that is what you're supposed to be doing like you are you're you're decent at this, which I think they're just being really kind. I think it'd be really gentle at this. But they just show me a list of all these wonderful business leaders, who had called to ask me to visit with them about risk and safety and all these other things. And they're like, Clint, that's called a business. And so I started my first company in 2005. As a way to be a an advisor, really some of the best business like for me the transition, I tell people to transition from the military, even as an athlete. transition from military is one day, Hey, you can't play football anymore. So but you can still be an athlete. So you look to the landscape to figure out what other sports you might excel at, like, how do i Sport these things I know how to do to another sport, and what coach do I want to earn the right to play for and you just kind of get to work and you figure the rest out along the way, and you earn the right to get increasing playing time. So I've always understood the meritocracy. And I love creating portals where the meritocracy worked and facilitating transition for both athletes and veterans. And, and you know, the your earlier guest, you know, Todd is a wonderful example of that, like, I have no real value to a guy like Todd as senior and accomplished as he is in the marketing space, other than maybe some of the soft skills that I've accrued as an athlete as an operator and to be able to share those things and provide value to someone like him, and then earn the right to be able to learn from him. Or there's other incredible, there's a so many incredible female executives and amazing fortune 100 companies that have earned the right to learn from because they can do this one thing well that they've needed. And so that's really encouraging all your listeners is to go, Hey, what one thing can I gifted for, that I'm capable of, and who needs that that I want to be around and learn from. And that's really brought us to today and brought us to today is you know, I get the lead a small holding company called Dreadnought. And what Dreadnought does is builds and leads brands and allows to work for the best leaders in America and create amazing careers for veterans and athletes, as they transition from careers and service and competition. So we can win the war on veteran and athlete suicide with the power of daily wins and a good day's work. And we do that by distilling the hard skills, soft skills and experiences of veterans athletes into these Aim small Miss small value propositions that we've just learned that leaders need. And we just kind of get on the field and, and try to earn the right to stay on the field. And be relevant as we do this thing called work. Right. I don't know if it's concise, but that was. That's it. I've got an amazing bride and three incredible daughters that just could not care less that I was a Navy Seal or played football. You know, I spoke for Vineyard Vines and the US. One of the great privileges of my life is to be a resource for probably the greatest. She might be the greatest soccer coach of all time.

Football in it. But Jill Ellis who ran the US Women's National Team and wanted to be a resource for her as she does something that's never been done before. So my daughters were like Dad, you could talk to us women's national team at Vineyard Vines that would be amazing. And and I didn't so um you know talk to them individually but not collectively so I'm still working on trying to be cool for my daughters. Yeah, that's difficult which is a moving target by the way like you can be like last week's cool is this week's on dad so that's I'm trying to figure that out that's that's that's a mystery to me.

Yeah, and when you try to be cool it's the worst thing I know.

Yeah, so I just my job is to scare the boys like scare the boys be there for Then when they need them and listen, even when I don't understand what they're saying. That's my that's my secret.

Yeah, very admirable indeed. works. Well. It's interesting. I didn't realize that you started life on a farm.

Yeah, well, so I would spend my family kind of grew up in the city and little rock but one of the greatest things we would ever do as we go to my, my family that kind of had moved to Arkansas from South Texas and is in his ranch, and, you know, my uncle, I, I have this policy, I fear no man, virtually all women, it just it's a pretty decent rule. But I do fear my uncle, my uncle, me and my uncle, I think I said maybe 800 words to me my entire life. And he's, he's in his late 80s, early 90s is the hardest working man I've ever known. And those 800 words are typically like, why are you here? That's, that's mine. Stop eating it. Who are you just this wonderful country farm wisdom. And, you know, I've learned from him and I'm incredibly grateful for just being around ranchers and farmers because there's a desire to there's an ability to endure delayed gratification that comes out of the agrarian society, farming and ranching and there's an ability to endure adversity because you do everything right, and it doesn't rain, and you got to figure out how to be okay with that. And you got to figure out how to make it. So I'm incredibly fortunate to have been raised and kind of both environments, the business sector, and farming and ranching. And it's interesting to me on a daily basis, where I use wisdom that I learned from, you know, the ranch the battlefield, the battlefield, in the boardroom. And as I tried to have this breakfast table and build on lead of a family that you know that I love a whole lot. So, yeah, it's it's interesting to find yourself right for a situation you never encountered before and figure out where that origin of that wisdom or knowledge came from. And so many times it's from the farm and the ranch.

I hadn't thought about my farming background too much lately until you just mentioned it. But I grew up on a farm in Wales, small dairy farm. Yeah. And I used to sit on the tractor with my father, as he turned the fields and made hay. And I would follow him around the farm, you know, as he brought the herd and the herd when you're absolutely right, you do everything right. And you think you're gonna bring the hay in on a certain day and when it rains, and then it calms.

It's interesting in Wales, and you know, it was the absence of rain was never the problem. It was the right it was the presence of rain, and then you have, but the reality is either side of that, and that keeps you from making rain, the God because too much rain and too little rain, they they both produce the same effect, right? I just think about that armchair wisdom that I gain just from these amazing men and women that really built the nation and listen to them on a front porch. I think it's a casualty of our society today. And in I'm not as much at war with social media as, as one would think, or what a lot of people like one of the things, I think it's really interesting about social media, when you do it, right, and you do it intentionally. It has hallmarks of the visiting, that I grew up with, like the way you grew up, there's Sunday afternoons was, you know, when you're in town, and when you visited with people, and you sat and lists, especially as a young person, you just sat and listened. And I think about the stories of World War Two, and I think about the things that I heard, and it's interesting to see how formative those experiences were in my decision making going forward. But man, I learned a lot about mental resilience, mental toughness, and patience, and all these other things from an environment that just gives you what it gives you when it gives it to you. And all you can do is really advantage yourself and respond to good fortune very well. So I'm very grateful for that background.

Yeah, when I started working at BorgWarner, that was my first corporate job. I was in my early 20s. So I went straight from college into this, you know, manufacturing plant business environment. Well, I only knew the farm environment, I didn't know how you were supposed to operate in a corporate environment. So I remember I was a temp in the purchasing department. So I was paid by the hour. And I remember people saying to me, why are you still here? You don't get paid after five o'clock. I said, but the job isn't done. Yeah, that's right. You know, and I could not in, in my mind, I couldn't understand why I should be leaving because the job they had given me to do for the day wasn't done. And they thought I was crazy.

But if there's no, there's no shift work on the farm, you

No, exactly.

Herd does not respect the shift. You know, the herd is gonna do what the herd is gonna do, right?

That's right. And I remember thinking, wow, okay, so that's a difference. That's the difference between the farm.

That is an advantage too

Yeah. Yeah.

You're right. Particularly when it comes to this idea of dealing with adversity and I hadn't thought about it until you you just mentioned it, but you're so right. More than you knew. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. Let's talk a little bit about It's how we were introduced. I interviewed on my podcast, Todd Ballard, who is the former CMO of GoPro, and you had done some work with GoPro. And Todd mentioned it on the podcast interview, he was so inspired with your speech that day, and he specifically cited it, he talked about building high ground for low days. So expand on that for us and tell us what that's all about and why it's so important for an authentic leader to understand that.

For sure. First, it's really humbling to hear, you know, Todd's perspective on that. And one of the things you used a word a moment ago, you said he was inspired. And I as I've thought about that, I don't know that that's the right word. To describe what it is I try to do with people. What I try to do with people is remind them, there's so so I think Todd was reminded, maybe it's something he'd already known something he had learned over the years, much like yours in my conversation about being in the ranching and farming. So I don't know how much I inspire people would, what I try to do is remind them of what they already knew, because they can be far from that wisdom are far from that place sometimes, but so so that's neat to know that I reminded him of something he'd learned along the way and, and you know, GoPro is a fascinating place, you have all these really creative people. And I think creatives are really, really interesting and inspiring to work with and around. And what I what I visited with GoPro is this presentation called pursuing a lead that I get to share with a lot of companies. I have a speaker's reel called hold fast. And what holdfast maybe allows us to do is export the soft skills we've gained as veterans and athletes in the private sector, when you look at exportable skills, and how do you provide value to them on the math that you're on now those soft skills, mineral resilience, mental toughness, overcoming adversity, those are those are part and parcel of being an athlete and certainly being a service member. In what I try to do is I kind of look at myself as a little bit of a singer songwriter like I write the songs that I can kind of sing a little bit, but I know 20 People that can sing it better than I can. And I try to write these things that veterans and athletes can immediately identify with and tell their own version of like being an artist, that delivery, right stuff that can be covered by the band that's better than them. And that presentation pursuing elite really what it says is there's really only five outcomes. If we're very honest with ourselves, there's bad average Good, excellent, and elite. And it's our passion, our profession. On this continuum of outcomes, we should only want to be somewhere between excellent and elite. Elite is like this. It's Camelot. It's this utopia. It's but it's this gravitational pool that pulls us beyond what we thought was excellent. Yesterday, there's a wonderful thing in the SEAL teams is the only easy day was yesterday. And if that's your expectation that keeps you restless. And it also makes you nervous when things get easier because it makes you feel like you're missing something or you're not trying hard enough. And what we talked about in pursuing Elite is we examined that between elites. So there's a difference when elites and elitist and the difference is what they do with their titles like an elitist is always filling themselves up no matter what it is. It's another cup of them. And elites are always pulling themselves out. I mean, they're almost reckless, almost recklessly generous with their talent and their treasure because they know two things. One, they know rising tides raise all boats. And they're also not afraid, we know the reason you wouldn't share something is if you're afraid that someone's gonna be able to eclipse you without what you shared with them. And so in life skills, not necessarily in the competitive landscape, right, it's okay to not share your playbook. But morally and ethically we have an obligation to share with people those things that have allowed us to endure things that they may be going through. And so when we talk about the pursuing elite, it's this desire to consistently find this next ridgeline and move on to it and what I've what I've learned in my, this kind of learn along the way on the ball field, on the battlefield, in the boardroom, in the breakfast table. And there are amazing men and women that have clips me and every one of those things. Because there's really these five qualities that I see a leader achievers consistently have and they're not gifts, like when I talk about it. I jokingly say gifts because they're not gifts, their decisions. But the five pursuit points are balanced curiosity, tribalism, intentionalism authenticity. And what Todd was referring to is the first one which is balance. So for me, balance is not an equal distribution of effort. Balance is having high ground for hard days. It's having faith and family and friends and people in places and processes that remind you who you are and what you're about.

That allow you to reload and refuel and roll right back down on the problem. And so for me, the difference between a hard day and a bad day is the ability to be reminded of why you're doing the hard thing in the first place. And so for me, what he was talking about is you know, that high ground for hard days is the difference between a hard day staying a hard day or just becoming a bad and I don't really care how tough you are. You can't take a lot of bad days. But when you have these, these faith and family and friends Have people in places and processes that are built to remind you why you started in the first place? You can take a lot of hard days, you can take more hard days. And most people think I mean, I think if you'd ask anyone back in March, if they would have been able to endure these things we now consider everyday things. They don't know if they would have told you no, but they certainly would not have been excited about it. And yet here we are creeping towards October. And we are finding a way to not return to who you were, but to, to drive towards this better version of ourselves. Right? So that's what Todd was referring is this, Hey, are we advantaging ourselves for the hard day, so we can just stay hard day or we prepositioning faith and family and friends and people in places and processes that remind us who we are, what we're about, and why we started doing the hard stuff.

Do you think, Clint that people have gone through that conversation either with themselves in their head or with their family during this pandemic? That it's given them a pause? You know, to think about it?

I would hope so, you know, what I get to do in presentations is give people a framework to answer their own questions. And I was talking to a really wonderful transition veteran, we're talking about going to counseling, and I was like, Hey, man, all call it counseling, call coaching, whatever you want to do. All accounts are does ask you questions, you don't necessarily know how to answer for yourself, and then tells you what you said. So you know. So for me, I think adversity, I'm sure, if it doesn't always you should try to make sure it produces moments of introspection, so we can kind of inventory who you are, what we're about, where are we going to do we have high places, is it? Is it harder than it should be? Because we've forsaken some of this high ground or we took advantage of it? And how do we reconcile and restore those relationships so they can be there for us, and we can be there for them as this thing called life doesn't seem to be hurtling towards ease, right?

Yeah, yeah, you're right. You know, it strikes me, Clint, one of your values is you're very humble.

Oh, no, I'm just self aware. Like I look. It's all true, right? There's no, there's no humility. It's like, Yep, I was officiating fullback in eighth grade, there's no over celebration of that is, is just I was it's they don't, they didn't print on the roster. Like that's where I was, it wasn't, it wasn't on the roster.

So you've got this, you know, it's who you are. Right? You're humble. I think if you no problem, sharing problems, you know, showing vulnerability, authenticity, of course, which all of these things we know, are the traits of an authentic leader. Right now, during the pandemic, the ultimate corporate type, the sort of buttoned up perfect corporate speak, Vice President, President, leader of a business, right, has had to, has had to strip off that mask to a certain extent, because now they're on Zoom calls with a three year old running around in the back or the dog jumping on their lap, right? So they've had to be a little bit more vulnerable. But it's given them such a great opportunity to embrace this side of themselves. Do you see that? And at what do we do to help leaders make sure that they hold on to that?

Well, so So one, I think leaders should be really should be really introspective. On the other side of the thing that hope would never happen, right? And when you inventory the casualty of what happened when your dog jumped on your lap, or your child interrupted your zoom, and he asked yourself, like, Hey, did I lose face with the people I'm trying to lead to the thing more or less than with will typically find is when the people who are falling receives humanity, it makes them want to be rescued more, I had the great privilege of working for some amazing leaders in the Special Operations community and, and one of the things I tell about people's like, I love leaders that would come in and just say, Hey, I don't know how to do this. It never or I'd never had to do it this way before. He did not cheap in there. My desire to follow them, if anything, it made me want to be around them more, because I knew I was imperfect. And it always demonstrated also demonstrated their need for me. So I knew it was okay to be imperfect. But I also knew that I was a value and I was needed. And so I think if everybody's really honest with ourselves, when they examined what happened when their people figured out their humans, that it was a it was a not a negative and perhaps maybe in a positive way, their ability to lead authentically because think about this. And this is nothing against the publicly traded world. But when you decide to go public, when you're a company, you decide to go public, you've agreed to be two companies, the company that did what it did, and the company is working to make sure it remains compliant. And it's important that we do that but you're effectively doubling down on The effort and when you choose to be authentic, what's happening is you're streamlining the effort. It's like, Hey, I'm here because I'm fit capable, imperfect, but ready to be here. And then trying to maintain a veneer trying to maintain a, a caricature of who you think that person is, ought to be. It's, it's throwing an ankle weights on, and it's making it harder to be both the role that you're in, and the person you think, ought to be in that role. Right. And, and I feel like that's a that's a deliberate disadvantage when you do that, and and to try to try to be who you're not makes everything harder.

Yeah, I know, I did it for many years. I lived, I lived. And now it's great to just sort of, you know, strip off that corporate mask.

And listen, there's no, there's no malice in that mistake. And I think we examine the mistake, right, like, the reality is, I was trying to be quick buck is for the majority of my career until I realized there was a percentage of big buckets that I was capable of replicating. There's also this person called Clint Bruce, that was good enough, right. And when I talked about chasing people, I'm very deliberate on like, hey, Chase, chase a percentage of them, that you'd like to see in you, but don't try to become them. But any of the great leaders I know, would consider this a disservice to me to become all of them. Right? And, and that humility is really frankly, liberating. And I tell my daughters is something like, Hey, if you're going to compare anything, compare everything. When you compare everything, what you'll find is there's just a percentage of that person, that that should be inspirational to you. And so just pursue that percentage that you want to honor with your own version of that. Right. And and I think, imitation will they say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery will it the inception, maybe. But after that, it's really a disservice to to the individual imitating the person really is.

Yeah, yeah, it's, that's, that's so true, right there. There's no one perfect leader out there. There are just certain things that should resonate with you as a leader that you decide to take on board. And some of those things may work and some of them don't, and then you change them. But you continue learning and growing. And honestly, Clint, I will tell you, that I have learned more about leadership, since I've been doing this podcast and interviewing and spending time with other leaders than I think in 30 years in the corporate world.

Because it's a singular pursuit. Now you're not worried about learning and performing all at the same time. In think for me, I have this my daughter's No, this is the first time I did it, I did it wrong. But there's a thing they all know this, why is greater than or equal to y two. And what I mean by that is you are greater than equal yesterday's, you like you're only competing against yourself. And the first time I did it, my daughter's like, you got the you got the Pac Man mouth wrong. But why is greater than or equal to y two. And what I tried to tell him was like a you versus yesterday's you. And whether you beat yesterday's you about minute or a mile, that's all you're really trying to do. And in the process of doing that, you're probably going to beat other people in this thing called competition, either corporate or athletic, or all these other things. But when you recognize that you versus yesterday as you the game becomes much clearer, much more simple. And you find yourself better at it than you ever thought possible.

You know, I learned that from Nick Norris, who's a Navy SEAL that I interviewed in season one. So you're my second Navy SEAL.

He's a, he's a better seal than I was I my beard might be better. I don't know. Yeah so

But he's also an extreme athlete. And I asked him, I said, what, you know, what, what are you telling yourself, when you push yourself to those limits? How do you do you get the performance to that level? And he said, it's incremental improvement, you just improve, you just get better and better and better. And it's having that mindset of incremental improvement. And I thought, wow, you know, I think I was expecting some magical answer. I don't know what I was expecting. But it wasn't that something that simple and straightforward. So do we all have that in US clip?

Yeah. That's the thing. The one question I asked people, are you are you climbing the right ridge line? I think it's worse worth examining the ridge lines. We're climbing right and, and whether we're deliberately disadvantaging ourselves by climbing ridge lines that we're not built for right for us. But beyond that, I think it does get very simple. I think our ability to kind of go hey, what am I chasing? You know, I tell young men this all the time was like, Hey, be careful who you're chasing and what your life's gonna look like once you catch him, right. So I think it's important to not deliberately disadvantage ourselves by overly complicating this process called Who am I trying to be what am I trying to do? And the more we keep it personal and the more we use, you know, most alive I think, is a little bit like echolocation you just kind of send out a ping and you course pick where you are based on where Those things that you're aspiring to might be and and. And when we do it that way, when we simplify it, we find ourselves enduring relief, like we're, we're kind of built for that moment, one of the things I tell people is like discipline is more don't than do. And when you see, as you kind of go through the watch competitors, with every level they go up, there's typically a reduction, and what it takes what they take with them to do this thing, right, because you deploy that knowledge and you become lean and fast. And we have another presentation called the Achieving average. And the Achieving average is really a bit of acknowledgement of me. When I say I'm an achieving average, what I mean is, if you were to aggregate all my skills and abilities, you'd find me be a high C or low B and just about everything. So talents, not why I've been able to do these things, what my gift is not being gifted. What I realized very early, is I needed angles, allies and advantages do anything worthwhile me the mountain makes all men or women average at some point time, if you don't start with the right stuff, you're probably not going to make it. And so we look at this thing called talent and treasure and those things are important. I think it's really irresponsible, borderline reckless to not acknowledge that there's talent disparity and resource disparity at times. But I do think it's important to recognize that that's only 1/3 of the equation. Right? Angles and allies are two thirds. And we bet the farm on this and small units and in special operations and service academies as athletes is a angles are this pursuit of perfection in your craft, right being built for the burst. We're not to look much past nature to that, like a lion looks lazy till it's coming at you. And you're like, oh, that's what that was built for. Right? A great white shark looks like it's just lollygagging through the ocean till it's common and you're like, oh, that's what thing that swans I'm gonna sins into what it's supposed to be, with this total reduction of anything that causes friction like this, this angular perfection in the pursuit of was supposed to be, it's really hard to compete with that, right? And then when you have allies, who people who mean what they say as much as you mean, what you say, again, there's a reduction in a collective effort. So when you have allies pursuing perfection in their angles, you typically find people that can beat someone who has more talent, or someone has more treasure. And so for me and said, that that's that's really the process is to, Hey, would mount are we trying to climb? And then Are we pursuing kind of the angle, like, my whole deal in football was understanding mechanical advantage. So if I was playing someone who was faster than me, which all of them were, you're, you're faster than me, but I know where you're going. Now, I'm faster than you. If you're bigger than me, but I'm lower than you. Now. I'm stronger than you. So understanding that mechanical advantage, and then finding people who were pursuing that perfect version of themselves as well, recognizing it's not about achieving, as it's like utopia, it's about being as close to as you can, and being restless on this x that everybody else calls it. Excellent. That's a pretty good life. I mean, that produces that produces something you can look back on fondly and proudly.

You've been around a lot of corporate leaders, you've worked with some of the top 100 companies. We're all in pursuit of being an authentic leader, what is authentic leadership to you.

So I would tell you, if if you're if you're very senior leader in any organization, and you're not in pursuit of authentic leadership, soon you will be because you will find that inauthentic leadership has an expiration date. And so for me, authentic leadership is reconciling who you are, what you are for what you're about, against what the world says you should be, and finding that ability to navigate through to that end state that you'd be okay with, like, I think most of us peak in our versions of ourselves. When we're like in the second or third grade. It's less professional at that time, it's more aspirational, who do we want to be on that and if we can work to not disappoint that person. As far as the virtues that we represented our allies will find is, the closer we can stay that true north that we tell ourselves before the world starts competing for what that should be, the more we can live with ourselves wherever we are on that journey. And so for me authentic leadership is is being true to that true north that you decided at some point in time before the world start competing with who that person ought to be. And measuring yourself against that and then course correcting yourself closer to that biologically with a live with ourselves for the rest of our lives. And how how close we are to that pure version of ourselves unfiltered on corrupted on and on, jaded by what the world would say is how you end up sleeping really well. So authentic leadership is leading in the day a way that lets you sleep really well at night.

That's beautifully stated, but here's a problem that I see in corporate America today. And that is, you, let's say you have a leader who is not an authentic leader, a leader that leads with fear does not create or generate trust. It's all about the numbers. The bottom line, which of course, every business is about numbers and bottom line, but there are some leaders that drive purely Yeah. Right. The bottom line, that there's no trust, you know, there's a lot of toxic politics. Right, a lot of backstabbing. And those leaders in many companies have ascended to the top. So now you get millennials, Gen Z coming into the workplace, seeing that and saying, oh, okay, so this is what I'm supposed to be if I'm going to get to that level in the company. So this is who I meant to be because they copy and they emulate that behavior. They chase it, they chase it. So how do we how do we break that? How do we break through?

Yeah, I referenced it a little bit earlier, I said, Hey, if you're gonna compare anything, compare everything. And so when we look at the totality of the lives of that person, we have to recognize here are in order to achieve that, are we willing to endure that? And I think we look at the totality of those, those types of leaders, I think we'll find it there's percentages of their lives that we would want no part of, right? In order to be the C level of this do I have to be estranged from my children? Do I have to have alienated my family. And these aren't always the case. But often, there's a casualty that we were blind to when we start the comparison game. So my encouragement to any of the young folks that are listening to this is like, Hey, we're gonna compare, compare everything. And then once you compare everything, and if you decide to continue to pursue that version of yourself, then you're not a victim. Like, there's no victims, like you knew what you're getting into. And, and that's, that's the thing, you know, for me, from a veterans perspective, you know, I just tell my guys all the time, it's like, Hey, man, there's no victims in the SEAL teams, like, look at all we did get here, like, it's hard. And we have to, we have to recognize the authorship of the circumstance. And so I want to want to, I think we're always well served to when we compare anything, compare everything, and then decide whether or not to potentially endure the everything that we've seen in order to get that one thing that we thought was, was the actual goal. And then if you do, honestly, hey, you know, you're not a victim, it's gonna get bad, but you knew it like you. You populated the map, you drew the hills, you saw the potholes, and you went anyway. So, you know, be ready to deal with it.

The one thing I learned about SEAL team leadership is that it's, I originally thought that it was about command and control, right? Because I think sometimes when you think about that, you think, oh, you know, there's some really sort of like, nasty guy who's like barking out orders, right? And then I couldn't believe it. After I interviewed Nick, nothing could be further from the truth, right? It's all about bonding and building bonds of trust. And this whole idea of Hell Week is where that happens, right. And I really believe that there is a movement in the corporate world right now to get closer to this idea of building bonds of trust with your people. But it's gonna be a long, hard slog to get there. But I believe that SEAL team leadership has a lot to teach corporate America about how to do this.

Well, it's not unique to the special to the SEAL teams. I mean, virtually every military unit has this awareness that the only time you you produce a level of trust that it takes to be successful in combat is you either have time or suffering. So if you have no time, then you have just hybrid youth suffering. Because what happens is and I tell my daughters this I'm like girls, it's words work in wins. And T Lawrence we all know is Lawrence of Arabia wants it and opinion can be argued with but a conviction is best shot, because opinions are worth nothing, and they cost just as much. But conviction can change the world. And so on this continuum of of grouping, the way I describe it and pursuing leaders, you know, balance curiosity, tribalism, when you see groups of people, you can call them one of four things, they're gaggles groups, teams or tribes. And the absence or presence of conviction is what tells you where on that continuum of or a gaggle is yo together by misery wrong place wrong time, wrong choice. A group is united by preference. A team is united by purpose, but that purpose can be an opinion, because it's everybody's opinion that they want to be a seal to a whole week and then you're only there on Friday, if it was your conviction, right? And sometimes only extreme adversity can reveal whether your purpose is an opinion or a conviction. And a lot of times that's not a character deficiency, when you realize that your opinion instead of your conviction, it's just exposure. I was telling my my daughter this the other day, I'm like, hey, the body and the brain of the mind always have a vote. In extreme adversity is like open mic night at a really bad rude house, in the body and the brain are gonna grab the mic because you know that With a brand works, it's just gonna survive. And you have to have a mind that's familiar enough of diversity to grab the mic back and say, Hey, we're going to make it this is going to be okay. Remember why we're here, right? And, and so we use that in the military. And we use this because we know that nothing moves at the speed of trust. And so when you have trust, you have a speed and the flexibility and endurance and resilience that a lot of other teams, that's why a lot of sports kind of sports reveals that in August, all the NFL teams had the same stuff to each other. And in January, the ones who minute are the ones who remembered are the ones who were still playing. And, you know, just because you forgot something doesn't mean you didn't mean it, when you said it. That just means that that may just be the first time you realize the difference between thinking and being and mean it really revealed itself. And, well, we use it in a special operations group. And in the military, on the whole, like I said, this is not unique to the SEAL teams, is we impose adversity and we cleave, you know, you got it. I tell people, serendipity has a lot more to do with success than most people think. And you gotta put your words to work, even compete for the win, right? Like if you if, if, if your words don't go to work, you're not going to make it right, serendipity is not going to show up. But we have to put our words to action. And, you know, the military gives us an opportunity to really prove that we met what we said when we swore him or we signed up for two particular units.

Yeah, and you talk about adversity. You know, many corporate leaders have been faced with all kinds of tremendous adversity pandemic. I mean, you got both ends of the supply chain, you've got issues left and right. And my hope is that they will have learned from dealing with this adversity and that it will bond them closer to their teams, so that we can talk about transformation and what's next in the workplace. That's what gets me excited.

Yeah, well, it might reveal that you're climbing the wrong mountain, right? I mean, the reality is, is these are these inflection points that are make us ask ourselves, Hey, am I am I on the right mountain where I'm in? If I'm on the wrong mountain? Was it always the wrong mountain? Most of the time? No, most time, it's not the wrong mountain. It's just, it's wrong from now on, right? And adversity gives us this opportunity to ask ourselves the questions that ease never makes us ask ourselves.

Yeah, that's so true. What? What advice Clint, would you give to your 25 year old self? Now, this shouldn't be too hard for you to answer because you're dealing with a teenage daughter?

Oh, yeah. No, I would, I would tell him, I would tell my 20 year old stuff, like just shut up. Ask more questions. Listen for longer, right. And, and, you know, my circumstances, I imposed this inability to be wrong on myself because I was the oldest son and, and I do believe for a period of time that faking it till you make it is okay, as long as you mean it. Right? As long as you mean it, you just gotta just tell yourself, you're gonna win until you win for the first time. Right? And, and for me, but I would, I would, I would tell the 20 of them that, hey, it's okay to not know, it's okay to not be okay. But it's not okay to stay not okay. And so, so find out who knows and learn from them in? The thing I'd say is that it's not like I never did that, I would have just done more of that. When I lost my father, I just people, one of the hardest questions for me to ever answer. It's like, who's your mentor, and I'm like, I have so many of them. Like, I've always been incredibly intentional about having a cabinet level roundtable of advisors that I'm just going, Hey, I want to be like that person. I want to lay their men and their women and their athletes and their operators and our business people. And I've just learned to really work hard at pulling percentages from these people that I'd like to see in my own life. We're pulling percentages from people that in the whole reminded me of my father, right. And, and, but I would tell the 20 year old myself to ask him more questions and listen to them more. They're more valuable to me than I probably thought. And it was less of an inconvenience to them than that I probably made it in my own head.

We talk about curiosity and asking questions and leaders often, you know, we'll start off a meeting and say, Well, you know, if you don't stand anything, please ask a question, right? But then there's a group of people in that conference room or boardroom, and there's a stream of consciousness running through their head, and there's that little voice and that little voice is saying, I don't want to ask that question. Because I might look stupid, they may think I'm stupid, they may think I don't know what I'm talking about. And I don't deserve to be in this room. And maybe that guy, given the presentation is my boss. And if I upset him, then he won't like me, and then that will cause a problem, and maybe it'll impact my bonus. There's a voice that runs around in a lot of people's heads. Yeah, so we say yet we want people to ask questions and be curious, but the reality is that we got to do much more than just say that we've got to create an environment for people to feel safe to do that. So what are your thoughts on that?

So So I would tell you I love it. conversation and in pursuing elite, we talked about this quality called Curiosity. So we talked about balance. We talked about curiosity, we've alluded to tribalism. And we certainly talked about authenticity. So for me, Curiosity is incredibly important as a talent aggregator. For me, if I see an absence of curiosity, here's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing someone who's either perfect or they're done, and they can't be perfect. So now they're I don't want to say they're being a liar, but they're certainly not being honest. Right? And so for me, let's look at curiosity from two angles. The the person who's not asking the question, I call curiosity, intellectual courage. And he's the CO equal and precursor to physical courage and what I mean when I say this, I'm not diminishing physical courage. I've been around physical courage, my whole life. I've been around men and women of valor by raised by a single mom, my father, I mean, I know what physical courage is. And why I'm elevating curiosity to the train of courage is this is all we have to do is not raise our hands, and no one will know that we don't know. Now we examine that further, if we examine why we don't raise our hands, and what we'll tell you is the reason we don't raise their hand or at least the reason I don't raise my hand is I'm afraid, I'm afraid what people think when they realize oh, no, I'm afraid of the answer. Right? Well, that's the definition of courage is action in the face of fear. So when we learn to raise our hand, we're basically throwing our hat in the ring for all the great things can happen. When we're curious, we're going to create, you know, I described curiosity as a creator, a catalyst and a complacency killer, Curiosity will create opportunities and relationships that we never would have found, have we not asked the questions as a catalyst, it'll reveal that performance efficiency that that is not going to find us we have to go find it. And it's a complacency killer, and complacency is a killer. We look at the supply chain of virtually any disaster, what we'll find is complacency crept into the process at some point in time, right. And so I think when we raise our hands, we're demonstrating courage, because that's what courage is actually in the face of fear. from a leadership perspective, what I tell people is like, if you got a great plan, it can take anybody's questions. And when you're a leader, the lips, people ask you, questions you're in, you're helping people understand why you're doing what it is you're doing. The understanding why you're doing something allows them to adjust a cord on it, because they know why we have this thing called commander's intent, and can understand is why we're doing this in first place, and you reconcile all decisions in the field against Commander's Intent. But the more you know about why Commander's Intent is it makes you an ownership of that idea as well. Right.

So for me, as a leader, and I work with leaders on this all time, it's like, Hey, do you have an open door policy? And I'm like, yeah, and all most every great leader I know will say that and and generally, they'll mean it as well. Plug a win is like, it's all the time. I'm like, No, it's not. You can't mean you can't do your job if your doors open all the time, right? And no one means anything bad by this, but the waggler like, Hey, listen, if you have an open door policy, but you're not accessible, you're not available and you're not approachable, then it doesn't work. So accessibility is a gr geographical thing. Like, are you where I can find you for this open door policy? Are you available? Meaning is this time allocated just for me, so I can ask my questions. Are you approachable? Is a? Do I feel okay, coming up and asking these questions. Really wonderful leader that I've gotten to do a lot of work with. And one of things he said is like, Hey, listen, hey, I have an open door policy from 11 to noon, every Tuesday and Thursday, what's gonna happen is you've made yourself accessible. And then he's a, he's a hard worker, too. So I'm like, you have to deliberately look like you're not doing anything, right. Otherwise, if you turn on your screen and be playing solitaire, because that new person who walks into your office, if you look busy, they're not going to come in, right? So if you're where you're supposed to be, but you don't look available, and you don't look approachable, then you might as well just shut the door, right? But if you're where you're supposed to be, and you look available, like you've been waiting to talk to him, and you look approachable, like hey, then you expect them, you're excited to see this questions. What you're gonna find is really fruitful open door policy. So we did this for about three or four weeks. And how's it going? Because it's amazing years. A couple of things have happened. One, I'm not getting interrupted all the time. The people that that know, I mean, when I say when I have an open door policy, right? They know like, hey, I'll just ask him tomorrow. I'll ask her tomorrow, right? So I'm seeing a stewardship of my time, because I've made myself available over here. The other thing is, I know my people like I, I've been able to ask questions, and I've been able to share and this is the authentic piece, right? He's been able to share how hard it was for him to get where he is right now that the packaging would never have shown like, our packaging is very rarely an ingredients list. Like I don't remember buying something where the I think somewhere at some point in time, some regulatory body made you put the ingredients on something, right? Typically, you don't lean on that you don't lean on like, Hey, I failed the fifth grade or hey, you know, but it's not that. I don't think many people are. I think a lot of people are proud of their scars and they just don't know The setting with which to reveal those things, right? You've heard me says, I talked about Chase pace and cool and so chasing is making sure you're chasing the right people. paces. Who are you keeping pace with? And are you a little bit afraid to leave it behind if you don't put out right. And Paul is really important. If you don't pull someone behind you, then you're gonna be doing it for longer than you want to or longer than you're good at it. And both of those are a disservice to who you are right? And I have this belief that all great leaders want to get forgotten. They want to create someone that eclipses them. And I think God is really merciful in that because most of them want to get forgotten, you just become unforgettable, like John Wooden was trying to get forgotten for like 60 years. But Kareem Abdul Jabbar just wouldn't let anybody forget him. You know, and I live around Roger Staubach, not geographically it was in a different, a better a nicer neighborhood. I do. But I've watched his man tried to get forgotten since the mid 80s. And it just doesn't work. He just becomes unforgettable, because he's always trying to create someone that eclipses them. And I think there should be really encouragement of that in a leadership community. So for me, Curiosity is kind of an the absence of curiosity oftentimes is a non starter. And a relationship with a leader that's above me or someone that wants to work around me like you with curiosity isn't in the room, we're not gonna get along. Because for me, I automatically go, I begin to question where the courage is in the room as well. Because if you're not curious, you might not be courageous. And the stuff I'm trying to do is really hard. And I need to be around courageous people that are going to not let me make mistakes they've already made.

Curiosity and courage are important elements for a high performance team. Sure. But in your mind, what is the most important trait of a high performance team?

Authenticity? I mean, listen, if you're so terminology I'll become familiar with is coined by a really amazing guys come and ruin Preston Klein called Mission Critical team. And mission critical team is a group of aged 12 that have to affiliate for a hyper purpose reason, for 300 seconds or less, where if you fail, it's catastrophic, right? And when I talk about authenticity, and pursuing lead, I say there's two reasons people are authentic. One is tactical. And the and the second is moral. And when I say tactical, it's totally valid Be authentic is it's an acknowledgement of time. So the only agreement we've ever made as a species is the de cycle 24/7 365 We haven't hardly agreed on anything after that. When we look at mistakes in increments of time, we begin to understand the gravity of mistakes. And the competitive landscape in Madagascar playing as me and Notre Dame and o'clock and me in Georgia, ticking the clock, I mean, counting the clock, I mean normally clock and mean of course the clock and the clock didn't care about either one of us. And if I make a two second mistake, and I don't tell anybody else about it, I'm doing 10 other men to make minimum, a two second mistake, you're going to aggregate and you're going to double down on that last time you lose and frankly, we deserve to right progression is all about reducing the efficiency of letting someone else learn what you already know about this thing you all said is important. So I'd say if you're if you're a team at all, then authenticity has to be a hallmark of it otherwise just saying like hey, I'm gonna let you step in the hole that I stepped into and then I then I questioned your morality really at that point in time not just your efficiency but your morale because because we talked about tactical but also moral mean we don't recover the time spent the way I described as pretty brutally I'm like, I don't recover the time I spent on stupid like I find myself on stupid a lot. I'm like, Oh, I'm on stupid I gotta get off right? But you don't recover the time on stupid but you do redeem it. Like redemption matters if I if I let you miss the hole I stepped in I don't recover that time. I spent that whole but I do redeem that time what meant nothing or was negative now mean something maybe it's a net zero. But most the time it's more than that when it when we let someone else miss the mistakes that we made.

Yeah, very well said. Clint. What is gravitas to you if gravitas is the hallmark, the ultimate hallmark of authentic leadership? What is gravitas to you? For me? Gravatar

Gravatar says certainty, gravitas. It means to play on the word of that there's a gravity there's a there's a there's a weight of presence of a purposeful presence, right? And when you're around someone that gravitates your typically around, somebody knows why they're there, and knows what they mean to do, and is unwilling to let you endure the inefficiency they've already made it through unless that's the only way to learn it. Right? is interesting. I send these quotes my daughters every day I read the Bible to them. And that's in quotes. And one other thing to talk about today was the power of the power of a certain person, right? And what you see when you see gravitas is using certainty, you know, they may be wrong, but they're not wandering. And there's power even in that air and for me, gravitas is the weight of clarity in that person that you're around. The reminds you of your own weight of clarity or the absence of it.

Yeah, yeah, very well said. Let's go Something a little bit more personal. Sure. How do you start your day?

Yeah, that's that's an ongoing experiment for me. Like I always, you know, obviously, wake up. And when I recognize, hey, the first thing I feed myself mentally, morally, physically or spiritually is what I'm going to be chewing on the rest of the day, it begins to shape the agenda steward those earlier moments, really well, as I'm just a fan of simplicity, because Simplicity is the only thing I can remember when I'm scared and stressed. And most of my days, I'm scared and stressed because I'm, you know, it's just part of it, right? It's part of being an adventurer. So I kind of have this super easily checklist. It's like no faith and family, and focus, and then fun in fitness, and then faith. And it's just kind of like a that I started out studying, the thing I say is important to me. And then do I spend time with my family? And then do I spend time on my focus, which is my business and then do I make sure I have fun, like, there's got to be a way to have fun and fun as a casualty. So often of our society, and if you really understand the physiological positives of fun, the chemical cascade that comes like the restorative effects of having fun what it does for you as a performer, then you'd never forsake fun, right? And then I think fitness is something that's changed for me like I've had to, I've had to recognize this, this whole I grew up in this philosophy, hey, if it didn't hurt, it didn't work, right. And the understand, you know, what is what is fitness actually look like for me in the season I am right now. But as a general guideline for me, and Elena is when I start my days out with wood, digging in my faith and spending time with my family. And if I can, maybe front load fitness, that's really great. But even if I roll right into my focus, it's fine. And then I tried to end it with with with my family and my faith as well. So I try to be pretty specific in how I run my day as a generality. I don't overly marry schedules. Just because the casualty of most, I mean, at the end of the day, if you think about it, I look at leadership, leaving for me as a verb, right? If you're ever driving, you're a driver. If you're swimming, you're a swimmer, if you're diving, you're a diver, right. And so leading I describe leading as being looked to in a particular moment to make a decision or perform an action based on your unique gifts and abilities. So we all wear that weight and leadership is as fluid crown moves along the continuum of admission. I think people sometimes overly associate leadership with positional authority, no positional authority is different. positional authority is action, for sure. But it's also oversight, resourcing and encouraging, right? And then command is probably never been less about action, and more about oversight, resourcing accountability, and driving the mission. So for me, we're all leading with lead at any given time. And one of the things as a senior leader, you have to remain available to current operation, but Ford Focus at the same time. And so what that means is if part of your job is putting out fires every day, that's your schedule. So when you Oh, really marry a schedule, you deny what we talked about earlier? Like how do you find out something's on fire? Well, you have to get to foster curiosity in your people and make them know that it's okay for them to come tell you something's not going wrong as soon as something's not going. Right? Because the sooner you know, something's not going right. The sooner you're able to pour into that wisdom, by the time you're leading. There's very, very few leaders. I know remember everything. That was tough that happened along the way, like most of the time, they needed a trigger, most of the time, they've been doing some for 20 3040 years. And they needed an external stimulus to remind them of the thing they remembered happened and 25 years ago, right? So which is again, why come back to that approachability, availability and accessibility. So for me, you know, schedule is a goal. But availability and being available to the people I need to get this thing done is, is as or more important, so I mean, that that those F's kind of it's also a redemptive of, of a letter I found on my report card often as a child, like I'm going to turn from a bad to a good in conclusion.

What is your legacy Clint Bruce?

I don't know. Like, for me, that's something that's still being written. Like I tell people all the time I want to be I want to be known as a person who use their time. I've lost. I've lost a lot of friends and I've lost a lot of family members. And one of the things I think the worst thing you could do is waste time they no longer have. And so whether I'm right or wrong, I want to be known as intentional. You know, when we're very my father Jacqueline's creed was read and there's very few things I remember my father's funeral other than just how many people were there and how many people wanted to speak of them. But I remember distinctly Jacqueline's creed and the end of it is a proper function of man is to live not merely to exist I shall not waste my time trying to prolong and I'll waste my days trying to prolong the natural use my time. So I just, you know, my legacy is not unique to anybody else's. I just want to be a person who use who uses their time. And you can only see that time reflected to you in the faces of people that you built into, right. I mean, that's, that's kind of the deal. Like, who remembers you when you're gone, and, and I don't really care if I'm remembered or not, I want I want to see percentages of me that I took from other people, and try to build on my own life and the lives of the people that have been around me. So to use my time.

Well, and I think knowing that now makes it even more special that you gave of yourself and your time today, to give this podcast interview, I really believe that you've shared a lot of great insights that will help our audience to no end. So Clint Bruce, thank you very much.

It's a pleasure. Time and and this has been I've learned as much as I've shared so I always this is a multiple as an order we whatever time we spend, it's we're multiple on it, which is great.

Yeah, thank you. Awesome.

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