Today's episode is for you if you have and love a brother,

father, uncle, son, husband, boyfriend, cousin, kind stranger etc.

Kaleem's story in short

Married to a woman of other faith —> rejected by his family 

Just got out of Law school —> couldn’t find a job

One friend after another passed away or committed suicide

Drinking every single day to cope with life

Hospitalization - ready to check out of life .. suicide ? maybe !!!

ADHD medication and 2 antidepressants and more..

Divorced because not capable to provide and not getting better

and then ....

The day they forgot to give Kaleem his medicine he started waking up..

today's interview is with Kaleem Sikander

Spiritual teacher

Man Circle facilitator

also badass human being..

with love A.

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Free yourself from the ongoing destructive inner chatter become the strongest most authentic version of yourself.

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Unknown: 00:00:04

Hello, hello and welcome to the Borealis

Unknown: 00:00:07

experience. I'm your host Aurora, and I'm very delighted

Unknown: 00:00:12

to have Killeen sick candor. With me today. He's a spiritual

Unknown: 00:00:18

teacher, a man circle facilitator. And yeah, I

Unknown: 00:00:24

connected with him over Instagram and was so touched and

Unknown: 00:00:29

inspired by the posts and his work and the pictures that he

Unknown: 00:00:35

puts out there that I had to contact him and have him on the

Unknown: 00:00:38

show because I know what he's got to share is going to change

Unknown: 00:00:43

your life. I've never said that before on my interviews, but I

Unknown: 00:00:48

know that his work is so powerful and helps men to

Unknown: 00:00:53

reclaim their masculinity. We talk about warriorship King men

Unknown: 00:00:59

ship, and women can learn to trust men again, and to embrace

Unknown: 00:01:05

divine masculinity. Thank you so much for making the time for

Unknown: 00:01:12

being here with me for connecting with me sharing your

Unknown: 00:01:15

presence. Welcome to the show. Colleen Sikander. Thank you so

Unknown: 00:01:22

much. And that was a beautiful intro.

Unknown: 00:01:25

It makes it very excited to talk right now.

Unknown: 00:01:29

This is beautiful.

Unknown: 00:01:32

First, I would like to have you share a little bit about your

Unknown: 00:01:37

background, how you got interested in in the work that

Unknown: 00:01:43

you're doing right now because I feel a lot of people who

Unknown: 00:01:47

do this pressures work, nowaday had to go through some kind of

Unknown: 00:01:53

pain or suffering previously.

Unknown: 00:01:58

The more you share about this journey, the better the better.

Unknown: 00:02:02

People can relate. But you go as deep as feels comfortable for

Unknown: 00:02:06

you, of course,

Unknown: 00:02:09

of course.

Unknown: 00:02:11

And you're absolutely correct that my journey starts with lots

Unknown: 00:02:15

of pain and suffering, and wanting to go ahead and reclaim

Unknown: 00:02:20

my life reclaim my masculinity.

Unknown: 00:02:24

It started with, with me marrying a woman who has lived

Unknown: 00:02:28

the same fate that saying she was Catholic, I was brought up

Unknown: 00:02:31

in a Muslim household, and my parents agree with that

Unknown: 00:02:35

whatsoever. So they ended up disowning me. And I had no

Unknown: 00:02:40

contact with my parents, my brothers and my extended family.

Unknown: 00:02:45

And as I married her, I was also coming out of law school. So I

Unknown: 00:02:50

am a practicing attorney. And this was the recession area

Unknown: 00:02:54

United States and could not find any work. And she herself is a

Unknown: 00:02:59

is a doctor with divorce now. And her life had started and she

Unknown: 00:03:03

was starting her rotations at the hospital. But I was looking

Unknown: 00:03:07

for work. And I could not I could not find anything, I was

Unknown: 00:03:10

not making any money whatsoever. And some time goes by and my

Unknown: 00:03:14

best friend passed away.

Unknown: 00:03:17

He was the one who was my biggest support in my life

Unknown: 00:03:20

because I didn't have any family. And it just so happened

Unknown: 00:03:23

that two years earlier, another friend had passed away at the

Unknown: 00:03:27

age of 24. And this friend passed that 26. And as time

Unknown: 00:03:32

progressed, another person passed away. About a year and a

Unknown: 00:03:36

half later, two years, she ended up committing suicide, all my

Unknown: 00:03:40

friends that were closest to me. And now I was in a marriage with

Unknown: 00:03:46

no family with all my best friends, the SES. I was drinking

Unknown: 00:03:50

every single day, every single day just to numb and cope with

Unknown: 00:03:55

the world and not want to be part of this world whatsoever.

Unknown: 00:03:59

And things got so bad that I started being hospitalized for

Unknown: 00:04:04

depression for suicide attempts. And they ended up in partial

Unknown: 00:04:09

hospitalization program so that I don't actually get

Unknown: 00:04:12

hospitalized. But as I was in the partial hospitalization

Unknown: 00:04:17

program and opened up to them regarding my struggles, they

Unknown: 00:04:21

deemed me a risk. And since I was deemed a risk, and even

Unknown: 00:04:26

though I've not given them consent, or really what I said

Unknown: 00:04:29

was I will go to the hospital, but under my own terms, they

Unknown: 00:04:34

involuntarily admitted me into the hospital.

Unknown: 00:04:38

And once I got admitted involuntary in the hospital,

Unknown: 00:04:41

they diagnosed me with bipolar. That was the first time I ever

Unknown: 00:04:44

got that diagnosis. I really do not agree with that. And you

Unknown: 00:04:48

know, maybe we could discuss that later because I believe

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that's a diagnosis that they give to everybody when they

Unknown: 00:04:54

cannot figure out what is going on. So I know there are many men

Unknown: 00:04:57

who are listening to this and they

Unknown: 00:05:00

have been given diagnosis and does not sit well with them. I

Unknown: 00:05:04

will tell you continue with doing the work that you're

Unknown: 00:05:07

doing, and maybe not rely on that diagnosis. And we'll talk

Unknown: 00:05:10

more about that.

Unknown: 00:05:13

I was in the hospital and look, I am an attorney, my logical

Unknown: 00:05:17

mind was still there. And I was in a point of danger and wanting

Unknown: 00:05:21

to get out of the hospital. And I was able to figure out within

Unknown: 00:05:25

a day and a half how to be released because they had the

Unknown: 00:05:27

Bill of Rights and everything. And I called the nurse that was

Unknown: 00:05:31

in charge of the,

Unknown: 00:05:33

of that floor. And they were like, we can't really keep you

Unknown: 00:05:37

here because

Unknown: 00:05:39

they didn't do they didn't follow proper procedures. Time

Unknown: 00:05:44

goes by my ex wife.

Unknown: 00:05:47

Still with me, she was like, claim you're not getting any

Unknown: 00:05:50

better. I have to divorce you. And qualities.

Unknown: 00:05:55

So my ex wife, she said that she has to divorce me. And I cycled

Unknown: 00:06:01

into even deeper depression.

Unknown: 00:06:04

And finally, what enough happening was that because I was

Unknown: 00:06:08

so depressed, I did lose the job that I finally ended up

Unknown: 00:06:10

requiring. I was on so many different medicines, I took a

Unknown: 00:06:14

whole bottle of Wellbutrin, drank all night long.

Unknown: 00:06:18

And found myself in the hospital for six days in critical care. I

Unknown: 00:06:22

even had slipped my wrists because I was ready to go I was

Unknown: 00:06:25

done with life.

Unknown: 00:06:28

And as I was in the hospital, they forgot to give me my

Unknown: 00:06:31

medicine.

Unknown: 00:06:34

Which turns out worked out in my favor because they were giving

Unknown: 00:06:38

me two different antidepressants, a ADHD

Unknown: 00:06:42

medication,

Unknown: 00:06:45

a anti psychotic, and I was already starting to get seizures

Unknown: 00:06:50

from all the medicines that they were giving me. So they had put

Unknown: 00:06:52

me on to anti seizure medicines. And as I get out of the

Unknown: 00:06:56

hospital,

Unknown: 00:06:58

I realize I'm actually fine and more clear than I've ever been.

Unknown: 00:07:05

Seizure caused me I ended up having a seizure by taking the

Unknown: 00:07:09

Wellbutrin caused me to lose a lot of memory and I was fussy,

Unknown: 00:07:13

but I started to feel emotions again.

Unknown: 00:07:16

And I ended up in Memphis, in the south of the United States,

Unknown: 00:07:23

with my parents, and I've taken my dog all the way across

Unknown: 00:07:27

country to. And remember I told you, they're very conservative,

Unknown: 00:07:30

they had come back into my life at that point. And they told me

Unknown: 00:07:34

clean, you cannot have the dog in the house.

Unknown: 00:07:38

So what I did was I was getting unemployment checks. And I knew

Unknown: 00:07:42

I had unemployment checks only for six months, I put them into

Unknown: 00:07:45

a daycare, which was very close to the house. And I use all my

Unknown: 00:07:51

money for that. And I had six months to go and heal myself.

Unknown: 00:07:58

So that is where I learned that I need to figure out what these

Unknown: 00:08:05

diagnoses are.

Unknown: 00:08:07

I started learning about meditation. I started learning

Unknown: 00:08:11

about neuro linguistic programming, and all these

Unknown: 00:08:15

different techniques and I started to bring that into my

Unknown: 00:08:18

life.

Unknown: 00:08:20

That's how things started changing.

Unknown: 00:08:24

Wow.

Unknown: 00:08:26

I am so touched that you share with us in such depth what

Unknown: 00:08:34

what your previous life, let's say look like because I feel

Unknown: 00:08:38

there was a moment where yeah, you started you you push the

Unknown: 00:08:42

reset button and you were able to start a new and now you're

Unknown: 00:08:48

out there empowering other men, other women and

Unknown: 00:08:54

you turn the situation around like 180 degree, right? You were

Unknown: 00:08:59

in pain you were suffering. Maybe you saw yourself as a

Unknown: 00:09:02

victim. And now you live in this beautiful energy of

Unknown: 00:09:08

of a king. I would say I want to say

Unknown: 00:09:12

this is truly touching and so inspiring. And I have goosebumps

Unknown: 00:09:18

all over and I'm sweating at the same time like this is crazy.

Unknown: 00:09:25

Can we talk about your journey now towards

Unknown: 00:09:31

feeling empowered again and empowering other men? Like did

Unknown: 00:09:37

you see something like besides your story that is very probably

Unknown: 00:09:42

driving you and

Unknown: 00:09:45

helping you to push forward and to find momentum.

Unknown: 00:09:50

At first, did you notice something in society that told

Unknown: 00:09:54

you that we need we need to make peace again, men and women need

Unknown: 00:09:59

to make peace

Unknown: 00:10:00

And men have to embrace masculinity again.

Unknown: 00:10:07

There

Unknown: 00:10:09

in the beginning, absolutely not.

Unknown: 00:10:12

So my turning point was at the age of 30, I'm 37 years of age,

Unknown: 00:10:18

I started realizing that I just did not enjoy life whatsoever.

Unknown: 00:10:23

Everything that I was taught everything that I was told to

Unknown: 00:10:28

do, it just didn't fit.

Unknown: 00:10:32

I, the marriage failed, because I was told that I don't love her

Unknown: 00:10:37

because I did not make money that really destroy me to be

Unknown: 00:10:43

told that my love is attach to money. And that is a big

Unknown: 00:10:49

masculine, kind of demand a prerogative of make money for

Unknown: 00:10:54

your family. That's how you're seen as, as a man. Also, I was

Unknown: 00:11:00

seen to, I used to be very fit before the marriage. And as time

Unknown: 00:11:05

went by, I started losing that too. I, you know, my body wasn't

Unknown: 00:11:10

strong anymore, I had gained a lot of weight. And that was just

Unknown: 00:11:13

not, you know, I didn't think masculinity was all about

Unknown: 00:11:17

physical appearance and providing money. So I had to

Unknown: 00:11:19

explore to explore what love is. But as time started going by I.

Unknown: 00:11:29

So I wanted to figure out how to heal what was going on with me,

Unknown: 00:11:35

why am I doing the things that I'm doing.

Unknown: 00:11:41

And I just did not have any purpose, I did not have any

Unknown: 00:11:45

spirituality in my life, and no direction, I felt absolutely

Unknown: 00:11:49

alone.

Unknown: 00:11:51

I reached out to the Bar Association. They're the ones

Unknown: 00:11:56

who monitor attorneys in New York State, and ask for help

Unknown: 00:12:00

from them, and didn't have anything for me.

Unknown: 00:12:03

I went to turn to the therapists, they sent me to

Unknown: 00:12:07

psychiatrists, and the over medicated me. I tried to turn to

Unknown: 00:12:11

my family. And they wanted me to do things their way. And I just

Unknown: 00:12:16

didn't fall into the religious dogma, you know, pray five times

Unknown: 00:12:20

a day fast, get married. And of course, the marriage is an

Unknown: 00:12:24

arranged marriage. Those were just not things that I enjoyed.

Unknown: 00:12:30

So for me, I, I wanted to know what did what is it that I'm

Unknown: 00:12:35

doing in this world, I started to realize that

Unknown: 00:12:41

I need to be driven, I need to have a purpose to be.

Unknown: 00:12:45

And as I found that purpose, I was like, Wow, I'm here to

Unknown: 00:12:51

serve. I'm here to be part of community. I'm here to enjoy

Unknown: 00:12:57

this world. And as I look back, I was like, But why? Why am I

Unknown: 00:13:03

doing the things that I'm doing? Turns out, my father never gave

Unknown: 00:13:07

me the tools to live in this world.

Unknown: 00:13:11

Nobody taught me other than how to make money or go get a

Unknown: 00:13:15

career, how to interact with women, how to raise children,

Unknown: 00:13:19

because he was not President, I went to boarding school. So he's

Unknown: 00:13:22

not the one who raised me.

Unknown: 00:13:25

Nobody ever nobody ever instilled any type of sense of,

Unknown: 00:13:32

you know, we are one being we are a community that we need to

Unknown: 00:13:36

cooperate. All those things were missing. And because I was

Unknown: 00:13:40

struggling, and I was so alone, I did not want anyone to go

Unknown: 00:13:44

through that did not want them to feel alone ever again and

Unknown: 00:13:48

realize that there are other brothers other men out there who

Unknown: 00:13:51

can step up and help them and guide them. So menstrual cycle

Unknown: 00:13:55

started was because I almost died. And I don't want anybody

Unknown: 00:14:00

else to go through that ever again.

Unknown: 00:14:05

Now, with the circles, we have men of varying ages, 18 years of

Unknown: 00:14:11

age in their 20s in their 40s, and even in their 50s All of

Unknown: 00:14:16

them have different issues going on. But one thing that is in

Unknown: 00:14:19

common is that they're looking for a healthy masculinity.

Unknown: 00:14:23

You're looking for support, they're looking for a safe place

Unknown: 00:14:28

to go to where they could express their emotions and not

Unknown: 00:14:31

be judged. Yeah, absolutely proud of what I have created.

Unknown: 00:14:36

You can be you can be because your work is going to affect the

Unknown: 00:14:41

whole globe.

Unknown: 00:14:43

Because it's so necessary, you know, when 2018 I think it was

Unknown: 00:14:49

when when the me to movement started. Yeah, I felt relief at

Unknown: 00:14:56

first, because I was also

Unknown: 00:15:00

I'm very hurt and physically abused by a man in the past. And

Unknown: 00:15:04

I thought, yeah, this is good that women come out and talk

Unknown: 00:15:08

about what happened to them. But afterwards,

Unknown: 00:15:13

there was a huge,

Unknown: 00:15:17

like, empty space filled with anger and resentment. Yes. And

Unknown: 00:15:23

now this pendulum has swung, if you say that in English, way too

Unknown: 00:15:29

far off, we are, and women are suffering.

Unknown: 00:15:34

And men are suffering even more. And we are only focusing on what

Unknown: 00:15:39

we don't want.

Unknown: 00:15:42

And we don't really know what we want, we are scared of what we

Unknown: 00:15:46

desire and want, because we still so traumatized, from from

Unknown: 00:15:52

our past, and from our ancestors and their pain. And

Unknown: 00:15:58

what I love about your work is that you are not in that space,

Unknown: 00:16:01

you are in the space of have this forward thinking and

Unknown: 00:16:06

acknowledging, accepting what has happened and not living in

Unknown: 00:16:10

denial.

Unknown: 00:16:12

But I'm digging the potential that is there already and

Unknown: 00:16:16

helping people see what is inside of themselves already.

Unknown: 00:16:22

And what they just have to be courageous enough to express and

Unknown: 00:16:27

show to the world. So you create a safe space for men. And I'm

Unknown: 00:16:33

sure like, you have saved so many men already from suicide

Unknown: 00:16:38

and depression and anxiety. And

Unknown: 00:16:43

it's just, yeah, like, I hope you receive all the recognition

Unknown: 00:16:48

that you deserve for this work.

Unknown: 00:16:51

I would like to dive a little deeper into warriorship and King

Unknown: 00:16:57

manship I feel that you made you made a distinction between those

Unknown: 00:17:04

two energies?

Unknown: 00:17:06

Can we talk about it, please? Sure. And yeah, we're going to

Unknown: 00:17:11

focus on The King and warrior we don't have time to talk on but

Unknown: 00:17:14

more.

Unknown: 00:17:15

But I'm gonna go ahead and say a true masculine man is a

Unknown: 00:17:21

benevolent king. And a benevolent King is a good

Unknown: 00:17:25

warrior, a positive mission and a great lover.

Unknown: 00:17:29

Oh, it came is all.

Unknown: 00:17:33

So there is a thing, consider a distinction between the warrior

Unknown: 00:17:36

and the king. Because a king is a warrior, but a warrior is not

Unknown: 00:17:41

necessarily a king. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:17:44

One big thing that I would like to say is that the warrior is

Unknown: 00:17:48

necessary. We have to develop these traits, the lover, the

Unknown: 00:17:53

magician and the warrior before we can enter our kingdom, become

Unknown: 00:17:58

the kings of our kingdom. And because of meaty movement,

Unknown: 00:18:03

because of the violence that men have committed, because of

Unknown: 00:18:07

Honestly, all the violence is because of men.

Unknown: 00:18:12

You know, they're the ones who are doing it's not the women who

Unknown: 00:18:16

they're the victims in this. So good men are turning away from

Unknown: 00:18:21

their restraint. They're turning away from physical activity, or

Unknown: 00:18:27

they don't want to seem to be seen as aggressors. But the fact

Unknown: 00:18:32

of the matter is the Warriors necessary, who is going to go

Unknown: 00:18:35

ahead and protect the kind, then the meat and the week, who's

Unknown: 00:18:38

going to take care of, you know, the children, the animals, this

Unknown: 00:18:42

planet, if we're going to go ahead and give up our

Unknown: 00:18:45

masculinity and not enter our entire warriorship we are not

Unknown: 00:18:49

going to break the cycle. You know, in fact, I am saying is to

Unknown: 00:18:53

come into your warrior shift, to be that warrior so we can

Unknown: 00:18:57

protect the people who need protection. And if you do it the

Unknown: 00:19:00

right way, if you do it it with conscious thought and kindness,

Unknown: 00:19:05

that warrior is there to defend not to destroy as a last resort,

Unknown: 00:19:12

and the warrior is also that part of you that is disciplined,

Unknown: 00:19:19

that has purpose and is driven is going to go far and exceed.

Unknown: 00:19:23

We need that in men.

Unknown: 00:19:27

Now, the King who is a warrior,

Unknown: 00:19:33

he loves his community.

Unknown: 00:19:36

He operates in such a way that the ego, the his own desires are

Unknown: 00:19:44

secondary to a higher purpose. You can go ahead and what have

Unknown: 00:19:49

your own desire your own ego and your wants and your needs. But

Unknown: 00:19:53

what you're trying to do is act in such a way that your whole

Unknown: 00:19:57

community benefits. You know it

Unknown: 00:20:00

To find also to be a king, you do not have to be do community

Unknown: 00:20:03

work, you can be a king within your small family in it, take

Unknown: 00:20:07

care of your spouse, take care of your children, do not abuse

Unknown: 00:20:10

them, love them, raise them properly. If that's all that a

Unknown: 00:20:15

king has, and that King energy is so beautiful combined with

Unknown: 00:20:20

the warrior, it's safe, it creates in a beautiful container

Unknown: 00:20:25

for the feminine to come into. And I would also want to remind

Unknown: 00:20:31

the men who are listening to this, we have feminine qualities

Unknown: 00:20:34

to colleagues that we want to express and enjoy creativity.

Unknown: 00:20:41

Kindness, we want to receive, we consider these feminine

Unknown: 00:20:47

qualities, but the fact of the matter is that we are both

Unknown: 00:20:50

masculine and feminine. And when you have a great masculine

Unknown: 00:20:54

container, it is very easy for the feminine to come out. And it

Unknown: 00:20:59

does not take away your masculinity whatsoever.

Unknown: 00:21:06

This is

Unknown: 00:21:08

a very powerful words and very beautifully described. And yeah,

Unknown: 00:21:16

easy to understand. And at the same time when I listened to

Unknown: 00:21:19

you, I feel Yeah, women have to step up. as well. A lot of women

Unknown: 00:21:25

are ego driven, and think they have to reject their femininity

Unknown: 00:21:31

now in order to be able to compete with men and to not be

Unknown: 00:21:35

suppressed and oppressed by men anymore.

Unknown: 00:21:39

I visited a women's cycle here in southern Alberta a couple

Unknown: 00:21:43

years ago. And I was shocked to hear that yeah, it was all about

Unknown: 00:21:49

self massage and meditation and passing like bathing in

Unknown: 00:21:56

essential oils. And at the end it was just about how angry they

Unknown: 00:22:02

all were about men and all the all the you know, resentment

Unknown: 00:22:07

feelings came up. And then the soaker was done and we all left

Unknown: 00:22:11

and, and I was like, Well, this is not like, this is not what I

Unknown: 00:22:15

saw what it's about. at Burning Man, though, I went to a women's

Unknown: 00:22:19

circle and at the same time, there was a man circle right in

Unknown: 00:22:23

the tent next to it and it was like, very primal and loud. And,

Unknown: 00:22:28

and with the women, it was very sensual and beautiful, and how

Unknown: 00:22:32

to receive the man and not take from the man and

Unknown: 00:22:37

it was so beautiful. But it made me realize that there's lots of

Unknown: 00:22:42

different kinds of views when it comes to those healing circles,

Unknown: 00:22:47

right and, and we have to pick and choose and we have to be

Unknown: 00:22:50

aware that it has to be a step towards each other and not

Unknown: 00:22:57

making the gap that is there already even bigger. Because

Unknown: 00:23:02

this is not going to serve us we need each other we have to come

Unknown: 00:23:06

back together and I feel you and I we see the Great Divide and

Unknown: 00:23:11

we're doing everything to to melt back together.

Unknown: 00:23:18

The time is running like usually when it's when it's a beautiful

Unknown: 00:23:22

engaging interview. I have one last question for you.

Unknown: 00:23:26

If we have listeners out there, it might be men by women who

Unknown: 00:23:31

have brothers or

Unknown: 00:23:35

a partner.

Unknown: 00:23:37

What would you recommend is

Unknown: 00:23:40

the couple steps that they could take in order to make peace with

Unknown: 00:23:45

themselves anymore in order to see Yeah, aggression is not

Unknown: 00:23:52

masculinity it is not. It has nothing to do with how you look

Unknown: 00:23:57

and with how aggressive you can be.

Unknown: 00:24:01

What would you say are like baby steps and then last point how

Unknown: 00:24:05

can people contact you reach out to you? And how can they find

Unknown: 00:24:10

man circles that you would recommend here and North

Unknown: 00:24:14

America?

Unknown: 00:24:18

A very good question and

Unknown: 00:24:22

he said baby steps.

Unknown: 00:24:25

There are baby steps because there are certain things that we

Unknown: 00:24:29

can do such as number one starting to take care of our

Unknown: 00:24:31

body. I know this is gonna sound so simple, but please hear me

Unknown: 00:24:37

out with this one. Remove alcohol.

Unknown: 00:24:40

It takes you into a huge depression and whatever you're

Unknown: 00:24:44

going through, it's just gonna make it worse. We do not need

Unknown: 00:24:47

alcohol in our life. I was I'm three years sober now I'm proud

Unknown: 00:24:51

to be sober. It really created some havoc in my life and that's

Unknown: 00:24:55

my first recommendation. Second is actually reduced caffeine

Unknown: 00:24:59

also

Unknown: 00:25:00

To decrease anxiety.

Unknown: 00:25:02

So please watch your caffeine consumption.

Unknown: 00:25:09

Third will also come with marijuana, I know I'm talking

Unknown: 00:25:13

about things that take you out of your mindset that will take

Unknown: 00:25:16

you out of your awareness of who you are. So be very conscious

Unknown: 00:25:22

about things you consume.

Unknown: 00:25:26

For checking your body, even or not, meditation is very, very

Unknown: 00:25:33

important. Just sit for a few minutes, sit by a tree, sit in a

Unknown: 00:25:37

comfortable place, sit with your thoughts, it's not about losing

Unknown: 00:25:42

all your thoughts. It's just becoming aware, aware of your

Unknown: 00:25:45

body. And

Unknown: 00:25:48

one more thing I would have to say is seek good, healthy,

Unknown: 00:25:52

masculine relationships.

Unknown: 00:25:55

friendships that support you that will challenge you to grow,

Unknown: 00:26:00

you know who they are, the things that I spoke about, that

Unknown: 00:26:04

you should cut out or reduce, they're going to be the men's

Unknown: 00:26:07

who are already doing so they're not going to go ahead and lead

Unknown: 00:26:11

you in a direction where you're going to be consuming something

Unknown: 00:26:14

that is going to take you out of your mind out of your body. So

Unknown: 00:26:17

find those men.

Unknown: 00:26:22

I will also say there's an expression, do not throw the

Unknown: 00:26:27

baby out with the bathwater. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:26:31

If you enjoy lifting weights and martial arts, running, or you

Unknown: 00:26:36

enjoy just looking physically fit, please do so we need to

Unknown: 00:26:41

train our body and take care of so that helps release the

Unknown: 00:26:44

aggression and tension. And it is absolutely necessary to do

Unknown: 00:26:49

so. Right. So if you are backing away, because you're afraid that

Unknown: 00:26:54

you're going to lose control, you're not losing control, just

Unknown: 00:26:56

make a conscious decision that you're doing something because

Unknown: 00:26:59

you're enjoying it. But you don't have to go into the

Unknown: 00:27:03

violence of it. Look at the Shaolin monks, they are only

Unknown: 00:27:07

doing so so they could exercise their body and protect their

Unknown: 00:27:10

temples, just in case there was an attack. They're the most

Unknown: 00:27:13

peaceful monks that are out there, but they are experts,

Unknown: 00:27:17

martial artists. So there are so many things. And I guess the

Unknown: 00:27:23

other question was, how do you find them in circle?

Unknown: 00:27:27

Where r is in North America, right? So meetup will have many

Unknown: 00:27:32

circles, right? Go go and find

Unknown: 00:27:38

in your local meditation, crystal shop, something a little

Unknown: 00:27:42

bit even library, they most likely will have a men circle.

Unknown: 00:27:47

All right.

Unknown: 00:27:49

I think there are larger men's circles, which I'm not part of,

Unknown: 00:27:53

but mankind project is one that is popping up in my head.

Unknown: 00:27:59

What is the secret? Brotherhood?

Unknown: 00:28:04

Secret sons? Yeah, is another one. That's a big, big men

Unknown: 00:28:08

circle. Yeah. But I'm also gonna give you an invitation to reach

Unknown: 00:28:11

out to me. Yeah, you know, I really love that and see if I

Unknown: 00:28:15

can go ahead and get you connected with somebody who is

Unknown: 00:28:18

local in your area, I have started to connect with many men

Unknown: 00:28:22

from all over the world right now, all over the world. And

Unknown: 00:28:25

they have men circle that are in person and virtual, and many of

Unknown: 00:28:29

them are also free. So you know, do not hesitate to reach out to

Unknown: 00:28:33

them. And a lot of the circles offer scholarships and help and

Unknown: 00:28:37

these are brothers that are trying to help and if you're

Unknown: 00:28:40

alone and you need somebody, we can we can help we can

Unknown: 00:28:43

absolutely help.

Unknown: 00:28:46

This is so beautiful. And yeah, what comes to mind when you talk

Unknown: 00:28:50

about the exercising is to have the right intention. Right not

Unknown: 00:28:55

do it for the wrong reason. And if you have the right intention,

Unknown: 00:28:59

if it is self care, then it is the right way and with

Unknown: 00:29:04

everything it is with food with alcohol, we said we cut out but

Unknown: 00:29:08

also relating to women. Yeah. Do you just want to you know,

Unknown: 00:29:13

dominate someone and oppress someone? Or do you want to make

Unknown: 00:29:17

a connection between you and a woman and vice versa? Like

Unknown: 00:29:22

intention is a big thing.

Unknown: 00:29:25

A big takeaway from from this compensation with you here and

Unknown: 00:29:29

for women who listen, to also know that we can support our men

Unknown: 00:29:36

and encourage them not not, you know, tell him or join this man

Unknown: 00:29:41

circle. But when we sense that there's a tendency towards this

Unknown: 00:29:45

healing and reclaiming masculinity that we trust and

Unknown: 00:29:48

that we encourage it when the man wants to take self care and

Unknown: 00:29:54

it is not alcohol abuse. It is not like gambling or anything

Unknown: 00:29:59

but

Unknown: 00:30:00

If it's the intention to take care of themselves, that we give

Unknown: 00:30:04

him that space to give space for the man to heal, and to trust

Unknown: 00:30:09

that it's going to serve the whole community, if not more

Unknown: 00:30:14

people around, I feel that's very important to say too,

Unknown: 00:30:18

because women are sometimes Yeah, more inclined to have self

Unknown: 00:30:23

care time. And when it comes to men, we always expect a lot and

Unknown: 00:30:27

demand and when they are laying on the couch and reading we nag.

Unknown: 00:30:35

But to allow that space and to know that men need that just as

Unknown: 00:30:40

much as we need.

Unknown: 00:30:44

Kaeleen thank you so much for being here. And for sharing your

Unknown: 00:30:50

story with us and your wisdom, around reclaiming masculinity,

Unknown: 00:30:56

you are deeply appreciated. And yeah, I'm so happy to be

Unknown: 00:31:01

connected. And to be publishing this show here soon. Thank you

Unknown: 00:31:07

so much. This is such a pleasure, thank you.

Unknown: 00:31:10

Funny story here. As soon as we hung up,

Unknown: 00:31:14

we started talking and came up with more stuff we wanted to

Unknown: 00:31:18

talk about on the show. So we just extended here's part two of

Unknown: 00:31:23

the interview. Right? So you know, when you brought up the me

Unknown: 00:31:28

to movement, that was a that really create a tension between

Unknown: 00:31:33

the masculine and feminine. The teacher that I was with, and

Unknown: 00:31:39

what's what I've been in say was that I had been training in

Unknown: 00:31:42

spiritual studies for

Unknown: 00:31:45

who years now. Now, I'm the sort of at the age of 30. And now I'm

Unknown: 00:31:49

37 years of age, I'm still learning different modalities.

Unknown: 00:31:53

And I did take on a teacher, and I'm so grateful that he came

Unknown: 00:31:58

into my life. But there comes a time when you learn about

Unknown: 00:32:01

yourself, and you have to venture off especially if the

Unknown: 00:32:05

teacher is not clicking things in in will stop clicking with my

Unknown: 00:32:09

teacher.

Unknown: 00:32:11

The reason why I'm saying is because he was very angry about

Unknown: 00:32:15

the meaty movement. You know, we said we it was polarizing. When

Unknown: 00:32:19

that happened, a lot of women were angry, and they were

Unknown: 00:32:21

speaking up because a lot of violence was done against them.

Unknown: 00:32:25

But many men were like, now we can't be even men anymore. You

Unknown: 00:32:30

know, what is this? Every they're always unfair. The fact

Unknown: 00:32:33

the matter is that if you're acting from kindness and

Unknown: 00:32:36

consent, and you're, you're operating in a way that you're

Unknown: 00:32:40

supposed to operate, nobody's ever gonna go ahead and blame

Unknown: 00:32:44

you for doing anything. So wasn't that an opportunity to

Unknown: 00:32:47

learn and be like, How can I be better?

Unknown: 00:32:50

It was, it was an opportunity for dialogue with the men and

Unknown: 00:32:54

women. How can we conduct ourselves with each other? What

Unknown: 00:32:59

is it that you need? Where is it the fault lies? Many, many,

Unknown: 00:33:04

many, many men make mistakes, especially when they're under

Unknown: 00:33:07

the influence of alcohol? I bet you a lot of the these

Unknown: 00:33:10

violations occurred under influence of alcohol, well,

Unknown: 00:33:14

maybe that's a problem right there. You know, just because

Unknown: 00:33:17

you're drunk, that doesn't mean it is okay. So just you know,

Unknown: 00:33:21

you need to still control your behavior, you cannot just touch

Unknown: 00:33:25

somebody without their consent. And there could have been more

Unknown: 00:33:30

dialogue, they could, you know, with the older generation,

Unknown: 00:33:36

the older generation and the younger generation, because this

Unknown: 00:33:41

is an opportunity for me to teach the next people to the

Unknown: 00:33:44

next, you know, the children who are growing right now. And I

Unknown: 00:33:49

just think that we really, really need to reinvestigate

Unknown: 00:33:53

what has happened, and come together and figure out how

Unknown: 00:33:57

we're going to move forward. Yes, yeah. No, this is a very,

Unknown: 00:34:02

very important addition. And I'm so happy that you asked for an

Unknown: 00:34:07

extension here.

Unknown: 00:34:10

Because I feel the man who got really upset, like really angry

Unknown: 00:34:15

are the ones that kind of were on a wrong path. And this is

Unknown: 00:34:22

like, we're talking about violence, about rape. And you

Unknown: 00:34:26

say, Oh, now I can't be a man anymore. Yeah, so that means

Unknown: 00:34:31

that behavior was okay for you. That's actually what you're

Unknown: 00:34:34

saying. That's the translation that I'm getting here. And it is

Unknown: 00:34:39

exactly the men that needed to hear and see what is happening

Unknown: 00:34:45

when you behave off trail right.

Unknown: 00:34:49

And I really love that you brought that up because what

Unknown: 00:34:52

I've experienced is that a lot of men

Unknown: 00:34:58

started becoming

Unknown: 00:35:00

more aware and started asking these questions, hey, what do

Unknown: 00:35:04

men women really want? And how can we connect better?

Unknown: 00:35:11

And a lot of men were confused now. They didn't know. Okay, but

Unknown: 00:35:16

how can I talk to a woman now and, and I don't want to scare

Unknown: 00:35:21

her off, but I want to show her that I'm interested, I want to

Unknown: 00:35:25

impress her. But how do I not come off? Like a total creep and

Unknown: 00:35:30

a weirdo. And so there was so much going on. And what I, like

Unknown: 00:35:36

observed to this day is that, especially in North America,

Unknown: 00:35:40

when we talk about, let's say, catcalling, the women here are

Unknown: 00:35:45

so easily offended and are so I don't care if I'm going to lose

Unknown: 00:35:52

followers now. But as so

Unknown: 00:35:56

aggressive towards playful,

Unknown: 00:36:02

playful approach to connections, sensuality, intimacy, sexuality,

Unknown: 00:36:09

and I'm still trying to make sense of this. Because in

Unknown: 00:36:13

Europe, where I come from, from Germany from, from France,

Unknown: 00:36:19

it is very different. Like, we're very touchy people, kissy

Unknown: 00:36:23

people. And

Unknown: 00:36:27

catcalling. Yeah, when you, when you take a little care of your

Unknown: 00:36:32

body, it is the norm. It is on a daily, you know, and we find it

Unknown: 00:36:39

funny, we find we appreciate it. Sometimes we say hey, like, eff

Unknown: 00:36:43

off.

Unknown: 00:36:45

But is it it is part of a culture. And here I feel there's

Unknown: 00:36:50

so much aggression

Unknown: 00:36:53

towards men. And I want to understand like, are North

Unknown: 00:36:56

American men really such creepers? Are they such bad

Unknown: 00:37:00

people that they deserve that kind of treatment? And did I

Unknown: 00:37:04

miss read something?

Unknown: 00:37:07

Or is it women that are being too extreme, and we have to dial

Unknown: 00:37:13

down a little bit and relax a little more.

Unknown: 00:37:17

If you want to add to this, please do if you don't, if you

Unknown: 00:37:21

want to protect yourself?

Unknown: 00:37:24

I hear you. And you know, I am of a different mindset regarding

Unknown: 00:37:29

all these things. Because for me, we had talked about the

Unknown: 00:37:33

warrior king energy. Yes, when a man is in his masculinity, the

Unknown: 00:37:39

women come to him.

Unknown: 00:37:43

So these things, and it might sound advanced or weird, but

Unknown: 00:37:48

I've truly I'm telling you a true warrior. He is not

Unknown: 00:37:54

aggressive, but he is strong. And women flocked to him.

Unknown: 00:37:59

Because that's rare, is absolutely rare. So I don't care

Unknown: 00:38:02

about catcalling and playfulness and such because if you're

Unknown: 00:38:06

practicing your masculinity the proper way, you're getting

Unknown: 00:38:09

everything that you want.

Unknown: 00:38:12

Alright, I get it. You know, my focus when I teach classes when

Unknown: 00:38:17

I'm teaching my men, I don't even talk about the about women.

Unknown: 00:38:22

I talk about me, as a man, what are you going to do? How are you

Unknown: 00:38:26

going to improve yourself spiritually, physically,

Unknown: 00:38:28

mentally? And as you do? So all those things just fall into

Unknown: 00:38:32

place? It's a non issue. If you don't even think about it. It

Unknown: 00:38:35

just happens. Yeah, yeah. That's what I

Unknown: 00:38:40

I love that approach. Because I was focusing too much on the

Unknown: 00:38:45

what I don't want and what I see that is not going well. And you

Unknown: 00:38:50

pulled me out of this and show me Hey, you don't have to

Unknown: 00:38:53

impress you don't have to put on a show. If you are and your

Unknown: 00:38:57

true, you know, energy, if you are authentic, things are going

Unknown: 00:39:03

to flow towards you. And you don't have to do this whole

Unknown: 00:39:06

theater. And yeah, it's I don't know if you've ever been to

Unknown: 00:39:11

Europe, but it's still very entertaining when you observe

Unknown: 00:39:14

men and women there and lots of drama and, you know, lots of

Unknown: 00:39:19

playfulness. And yeah, I was missing that a little bit when I

Unknown: 00:39:23

moved to Canada initially. But, man, this was a beautiful

Unknown: 00:39:29

addition. That was

Unknown: 00:39:31

a big, big teaching for me as well. Is there anything you

Unknown: 00:39:37

would like to add? Because now we got plenty of time. But if

Unknown: 00:39:41

that's it, that's it. If there's something else

Unknown: 00:39:46

it's time to come together. That has been my message. We need

Unknown: 00:39:51

each other. We don't need this divide. The men are stepping up.

Unknown: 00:39:56

They are doing the work. The women need to have trust that

Unknown: 00:39:59

there

Unknown: 00:40:00

doing the work? No, the feminine is in trauma right now. I am so

Unknown: 00:40:05

sorry. I know I also don't represent every man. But as a

Unknown: 00:40:10

man, I have seen what has happened. And even though I am

Unknown: 00:40:15

not a violator, I feel it, I see it, I am observing it happening

Unknown: 00:40:21

around me, I do not agree with it. And if it is going to happen

Unknown: 00:40:25

around me, I'm going to do something about it as much as I

Unknown: 00:40:27

can.

Unknown: 00:40:30

There are many men like me, who feel the same way. And they will

Unknown: 00:40:33

never never allow this abuse and violation ever. And they want

Unknown: 00:40:39

all the feminine to just be joyful again, to not have to

Unknown: 00:40:44

worry about these things. And we're coming to you with respect

Unknown: 00:40:49

coming to you with partnership, and knowing that the masculine

Unknown: 00:40:54

and feminine needs to come together and do the work. And

Unknown: 00:40:56

that's it. Nobody is better than the other is equally as

Unknown: 00:41:01

important.

Unknown: 00:41:04

This was a beautiful closing to this episode. Thank you so much

Unknown: 00:41:10

for raising the hand that you wanted to add something I'm so

Unknown: 00:41:14

grateful for those additional 12 minutes here. I wish you a

Unknown: 00:41:20

wonderful rest of your day. And yeah, we stay connected and I

Unknown: 00:41:24

will make sure to have your contact in the show notes so

Unknown: 00:41:28

that people can reach out to you. Thank you so much.