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We need to talk about ideas, good ones and bad ones.

We need to learn stuff about the world.

We need an honest, intelligent thought-provoking and then

containing review of what the hell happened on this planet.

In the last seven days, we need to sit back and listen to the

iron fist and the velvet glove.

Well, hello and welcome deal is now the iron fist and the velvet glove

podcast episode 330 to 22nd of March.

I'm holed up in a hotel room in Sydney.

That's hence the strange background, I of course am Trevor AKA, the iron fist with

me as always every second week is shy the subversive evening and show the tech go.

Right.

So, so yeah, last week was the debate.

This week will be our usual panel discussion of the news and politics

and sex and religion of the previous two weeks and the goings on, of, of

our federal leaders and other stuff.

And I'm glad we've switched to every two weeks for rehashing the goings

on by our leaders because it'd be too depressing show otherwise.

I think I can only take it every second week because you just keep shaking your

head at what they're up to and saying, how much longer can we take this?

So it's hard to say it's going to be an uplifting episode, but we'll

do our best to make it informative.

Last week was good.

I thought, what did you listen to a little shy?

Did you manage to get hold of right.

Okay.

So that was fun with Hugh and he's keen to do another debate at a later time.

But as I said to here, problem is we still do agree on way too much.

So I think next debate on other stuff, I'll play devil's advocate for something,

even without we agree, I'll just take the opposite side and see where we head.

So it was good fun to do it.

It was I haven't had a good old fashioned debate with somebody

since the 12th man left.

So That was good.

I did observe something interesting.

I was going to say just off air, which is that there was that almost

theme again, of what we discussed at the last panel discussion.

So if you're critically analyzing something, you, you may be accused

of legitimizing it or condoning it.

Could you hear that?

Yeah.

At one point he sort of said, so do you support, you know, do you think the

invasion is justified almost as if what I had said possibly mean that I did.

Yeah.

There was a bit of that in there.

Yes.

So so seeing as that's the third time you've got the third or fourth time

you've got that kind of feedback.

Is there something in the way or speaking, do you think?

No.

No.

I mean, I observe it on with a camera, I think, with his Facebook page.

Yeah, people will.

I find it hard to isolate these ideas and yeah, despite I really

liked my Hitler preamble analogy.

I think that helps set the scene as to why we can talk about it.

So I liked that, that analogy.

Anyway yeah, cause yeah, I know he's not here to defend himself, but there

wasn't, it's just a little bit of good guy, bad guy people get stuck

into in that Putin is a bad guy.

Yeah, of course he is.

But there can be multiple factors playing.

You don't have to just resort to that.

So one more thing, it played out in a whole range of topics, bad

guy, which of course we'll discuss.

Yeah.

So with Kitchings kitchen, Kimberly, isn't it, the Kimberly kitchen and

who passed away, we'll get onto her.

But yeah.

Can you speak ill of the dead and yeah, there's all sorts of nuance going on.

So you might want to criticize her and criticize other people at the same time.

Anyway, we'll get to that.

What have I got on my list here?

That to kick off with?

Oh, just for those of you, I gave a Noosa temple of Satan update

last week and we separate to the religious instruction lessons.

Some of you may remember that Robin was involved with the sunshine coast

hospital, which is a public government owned a hospital and he was there as

a patient and he came across the, the multi-faith room, which was plastered

with Christian iconic matter everywhere.

And you might remember.

There were various emblems of different religions and the pentagram appeared as

one of those emblems and then disappeared.

And so there's different correspondence with the sunshine coast hospital about

the chaplaincy room and the removal of stuff that was in there and separate to

that sort of an inquiry by Robin as to what does it take to become a chaplain

at the sunshine coast hospital, because Robin's interested in becoming one.

So we did a right to information request and got that back

yesterday after many, many months.

And I haven't had a chance to look through it thoroughly yet.

So lots of stuff was held back as being privileged and many documents held back.

Privileged because it was stuff that was going to be going to

cabinet for cabinet consideration.

Can you believe it, Romans chaplaincy application being

discussed at cabinet level, indeed.

And so Tom, the warehouse guy, if you're around, we we need to talk

and talk about how we look at these documents that may be challenged.

What was withheld?

One of the interesting documents in there was where they were talking about

the current procedure for chaplains in the sunshine coast hospital.

And one of the emails here reads about their policy.

And it is when the hospital opened the decision to practice what is called ward.

It chaplaincy was started, which is what we still practice today.

This is when we visit everyone on the ward and have what we

call rejection at the bedside.

I E the patient identifies that they do not want a visit.

And we walk away.

That is what would have happened on the day in question.

So that happened when Robin was a patient and this nun walked into the room and he

sort of looked up from his bed and there she was right beside, and then there was a

bit of a heated exchange where he told her to get out, but this is the system in the

sunshine coast hospital that these people can wander around and enter rooms at will.

And it's up to you to reject.

Their offerings and then they'll leave.

And Joe is, you mentioned in our private chat.

Imagine if there is a static chaplain pick and wander the card a little hospital and

go up to a bed until somebody rejects you.

Like I sort of system Christians up in arms about that if they did.

Yes, of course.

So these people don't understand the offense that could occur by

being accosted by an unwanted advance by these religious nutters.

And I mean, and for some people it could be quite triggering, like

the number of people who have been abused by members of the clergy.

I know when I see I'd never been abused by anybody, but certainly went to

Catholic schools that shiver runs up my spine when I see a priest and a full

outfit even, even nuns, you know, like, so they don't understand how triggering

that could be for people I think.

And so yeah, I think that's going to be our next battleground.

So while we wait for the religious instruction court case to come out for

decision, this one for chaplaincy is ideally suited for satanic activism,

because it's that case where there's an existing privilege and Satan, this want to

take advantage of the same privilege and end recognize the privilege they're in.

They just think it's.

And the fact that it's run, so the chaplaincy is run

by a uniting church, man.

So it's, it's not the decisions aren't made by a civil servant.

The decisions are made by a minister who is deemed to have the best

interest of the community at heart.

So you say this for the, the hospital, the church for that, for that hospital,

for that hospital, the chaplaincy roster and decisions as to who gets

to be on and all the rest of it is run by uniting church minister.

Okay.

So in one of the documents I saw there, there was sort of arguments about whether

Robin was qualified to be a chaplain.

And I think, and yeah, my guess is you'd need a cert three or a cert four in

some form of what do they call it now?

Let's see course, no, not chaplaincy, but what did they call the people who

go out into the community and help this a disadvantaged community services?

Yeah.

Community carer guide.

Yeah.

So.

I think yeah, I think at the end of the day, both Robin and I are going

to have to sign up for some sort of course, to do to make our case water

tight, that we are entitled to apply.

And I don't know, I kind of liked the idea of going along to a, a Christian

chaplaincy course and just pretending to be Christian and going through the motions

and getting my certificate at the end.

You know, I also, and really keen to find out whether the nun who wanders

the corridors at the sunshine coast hospital has done a chaplaincy course.

I mean, I'd just be really surprised by what qualifications.

Yes.

It's a nun who wanders around.

Yes.

And I dunno, I'll just be surprised if it's a.

It would not surprise me if she does not have qualifications, I don't know, but we

will try and find out as part of all this.

And you know, as part of all this, I've been arming and arguing about whether

to renew my practicing certificate, because I really don't want to, because

it's a pain in the butt, but I think, you know, I have to assume we're going

to lose the Supreme court case and we're going to have to probably form a

incorporated association and do a whole bunch of legal things quite possibly.

And also just you know, this application for chaplaincy as well.

So.

And I'll just kind of talk to Robin about legal matters of this nature without

actually having a practicing certificate.

Otherwise I'm in danger of breaching the rules.

So unfortunately, I'm going to have to do that.

It's unfortunate because I had cost money.

Like I've got to spend a couple of grand on professional indemnity and law

society fees B, I've got to do 10 hours of professional development every year.

I've been putting it off.

I've been putting it off thinking.

I'd probably just say I've decided to pull out and then, but now

I'm going to have to go ahead.

I've got, I've got to cram in 10 hours of professional development

before the end of the month.

So I've bought these instructional videos and whatever that I've

got to sit down and read and.

All the rest of it and that cost money as well.

So anyway if you're a fan of what we're doing at the temple of Satan

and you want to help out, we need some donations to help fund my professional

development costs and my practicing certificate go over to Noosa, temple

of seitan.org and make a donation and put a note in it for Trevor fellow

legal staff or something like that.

Cause yeah, we're gonna have to do a fundraising drive to help cover some

of those expenses as I do all that.

But anyway, I think it's a good area.

I'm looking forward to it, be fun and it's not just hospitals, schools, universities

Olympic games, all sorts of places.

Funny places have chaplains.

So yeah, looking forward to that in the chat room, Jack says, good luck.

Thanks Jack.

If you're in the chat room, say hi.

All right.

Where was I back to?

So that was a chaplaincy Shay there was a big win for the

labor party in south Australia.

Did you have any thoughts in relation to what happened there?

Just listen to some analysis.

So without Mr.

Xenophon, there was some votes to have and labor got a lot of them.

And I didn't realize that Stephen Marshall opened the borders the

day before Alma Cron kicked off.

So the day before, the day after it was announced, the, this new before, because

the day before, so here's a bit cavalier.

Is that what you're saying?

So the analysis is saying that basically he opened the borders, let all my

chronic pain and ruined Christmas what south Australians are saying.

And so he, that's why he's one of the reasons he is a a longer in government.

So there was that, and then he kept relying on his credibility

as a primary, ah, instead of outlining his plan for what now.

So that's another reason why he was saying, and then apparently saw the

fellows quite charismatic, actually it's because labor ran a smear campaign and it

was nothing to do with the policies of.

The liberal party and it was all to do with labor being mean and online

anyway, and Simon, Birmingham, right?

Let's be premiere.

He's very good looking, charming looking guy fit.

And he spoke very well.

And the, you know, he needs speech where he climbed off.

But I dunno, call me crazy, but I just can't trust it.

A Catholic from the shoppies union.

Yes.

And that's what I was thinking about too.

So I got out the book.

You lent me.

Oh yeah.

I forget.

I've got my background on, so dear listener, if you're ever researching

anything, Trevor is an excellent result and Halan may have booked for one of

my subjects called corporate power in Australia through the 1% rule.

And one of the other great things about borrowing books from Trayvon is all

the good bits are highlighted for you.

I was, I was wracking my brain because it's from this book, but I had this

feel around the shoppies union.

And I just wanted to like clear up where I, where I'd become so suspicious of them.

And it's this.

It's towards the end of the book that it just says, it's talking about contracts

and big business and government, and it says a more sinister explanation is the

it's around Coles and Woolworths, Coles, and Woolworths have a notorious close

relationship with the shoppies union.

The SDA, which has the largest voting block in the labor party.

Shoppies union is criticized for having an arrangement with the supermarkets

where they facilitate their thousands of low paids being made members of the

union, delivering the union, large numbers and political power and return to your

union negotiates, very employer friendly terms and conditions for their workforce.

It was a scandal when an enterprise agreement struck between the union and

calls was disallowed by the fair work commission where the bar is pretty low.

Ladies and gentlemen, because it left workers worse off Coles and

Woolworths acting through the shell pays may have been able to

pressure labor into running quiet on.

Exactly what combination of these layers of power was at work is not

clear, but its effects are evident.

And I just thought that last sentence in particular was important because you

can see it all through the labor party.

In the past couple of weeks, with all the coverage around power factory

unions, it's all got to get in claim.

Oh, well that'll never happen.

But mission into it, I'd say, yeah, we're all commission into unions.

They found nothing.

I can't remember.

But yeah, I mean the shoppies are just notorious for having a lot of power

because I've got a lot of members and, and being very Catholic and very conservative.

And I think I read stuff where he had previously been.

You know, anti-abortion anti equal marriage equality and things like that.

I, I haven't investigated fully and on an amendment, apparently a

DDD voted against a controversial abortion until birth amendment passed

under the former liberal government.

Right.

He comes from the rush of ALP.

Yeah, it was, was from the conservative shoppies union.

Yeah.

So, so I'm worried about what will happen there, but we'll see, who knows

you started off with a lovely speech.

So we'll see.

But my antenna up and I'm fearful of what he might say.

So Joe, you sent this particular graph that you had found from eternity news,

actually from your regular reader of eternity, Joe, via the rationalist.

Ah, right.

Okay.

Aternity dear listener is the newsletter for.

Christian groups.

Oh, it's a tide Christian newsletter.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the bit that got you was something they mentioned in the article that

they lobbied hard for some Christian party, something, the family first

party who turned out 30 out of 47 seats.

So they had a candidate in 30 seats.

Yep.

And effectively 3.8% of first preference votes.

Yep.

And they said effectively, they think that Clive Palmer's United Australia.

Oh, sorry.

Family first might be lucky or an essay in a Senator election.

If the United Australia party drags down one nation, but they figure

that I'm family first, last one.

To a lot of conservative votes.

Okay.

Well, one nation only got 2.7% looks like.

Yeah.

So at the end of the day, just as a first preference, labor still end,

they got 40.4% liberals got 34.6.

Obviously the greens at 9.6% would have literally all gone to the labor party.

One assumes I would say.

So yeah, that's south Australia, labor state premiers everywhere except new south

Wales and sort of gone against the grain where prem state premiers have done well,

because they've been seen largely to have done a good job in terms of responding

to the pandemic and other issues like a disaster is normally an opportunity.

I government, it normally helps incumbent.

Well, you got to do is access the emergency funding.

That's sitting in a pot off to the side and start spending it and deploy

the army and to spend it quickly.

And it's a simple formula unless, unless of course you're Scott Morrison

and the idea of government actually doing something is just a Natha man.

Like that's not what that just goes against what they think

government should be doing.

So anyway, let's get onto kitchen.

So who passed away and other heart attack at a relatively young age and she had

some pre-existing thyroid condition.

I think it was.

And boy, oh boy, there's been a lot of a lot of.

Media about it and look all the talk over the last 3, 4, 5.

How many years about the appalling treatment of the Morrison

government of women generally.

And this one issue comes out where a female labor politician dies of a

heart attack, a mid her allegations of bullying and the right-wing media has

just latched onto it as you'd expect.

I mean, we, skying is not Kress, shamelessly deriding the labor

and Albanese, if it had all been the other way around, you

wouldn't have heard blue about.

But but of course it's a chance they saw or to have a dig at the labor party.

I mean, it's, I, I, as you know, dear listener, I read the career

mail the Australian every day.

I now purposely in my mind, as I begin, I go to myself as a, as a sort of a

mantra, Trevor, this is not a newspaper.

This is just the liberal party, local newsletter.

Think of it that way.

It's not a newspaper, it's a newsletter by a propaganda outfit.

And you might just get some interesting, independent news about sport or something,

but the commentary is so biased anyway.

Even the ABC, the whole kitchens drama though shows that, that despite the

fact that people apparently don't buy newspapers it sets the agenda and the.

News outlets followed.

So the ABC was also wall-to-wall coverage way beyond what was

fair in this, in this news item.

And forensically examining whether the labor party had anything to

answer for in terms of catching in the, and the bullying allegation.

And I just felt that was lazy journalism by the ABC in many respects to just to

just accept the agenda that had been set by the Murdoch press and, and just

add more fuel onto the, onto the fire.

I thought of, of a fairly nothing argument.

I mean, There's no medical evidence that she died of bullying.

But you would think reading the papers that's what's happened that she somehow

committed suicide and left a suicide note saying I've done this because

of the bullying I was subjected to.

That's, that's what you would think had happened by the way things are written.

So we always are heading on, this is the agenda setting by the Murdoch and sky

news, the, the sheep, like following of it by the ABC is just really disappointing.

And so the good reporting by crikey.

Fearless reporting.

I think so deal this.

Now I've been sort of banging on about crikey for the last few months about how I

thought had been doing a pretty good job.

And when we're talking about independent news sources that are worth paying for

and supporting, I mentioned gentleman and new blog and crikey in the same breath

almost Crocky subscriber, you know?

Yeah.

But like I did a lot of good stuff on Hillsong and, and religious stuff

and, and the kitchens, one guy Randall did some excellent stuff and look, I

could go through it forensically what he said, but I'll try and summarize

it, which was kitchen was part of the bill shorten faction and bill shorten.

When he lost out after the last election lost power and she

subsequently lost power as well.

And of course the labor as with all parties is about factional power.

So she had sort of got into her position because of her close ties to shorten

and therefore was in danger of losing her spot because of her close type

of issue once he was out of favor.

The other part that they mentioned is that the guy Randall mentions is that

you know, she was a factional power player and not a great advocate for the

the people she was meant to represent and very much on the right wing.

She was a hard huh.

Very sort of anti China and it seems had leaked some labor party tactics to the

liberal party, particularly about the girl in parliament house who was alleged.

It was, she was raped.

It was an I'm not, not Christ time and the other girl Brittany Higgins.

So there was a very strong allegation that she had leaked to the liberal party.

What was going to happen with Brittany Higgins in terms of labor party tactics.

So she had been dropped from a sort of a tactics committee and of course

her version is that she was bullied.

It's equally sort of arguable, well, you're out of favor because of

shorten you're out of favor because of deep suspicion that you had been

leaking stuff you are sort of a hard right-winger anti-China almost

neo-con, you're not really fitting in here with what we're trying to do.

So of course she was gonna cop some flack.

So you're a, you're a hard ass political operative, and you'll just, you

know, treated the way everyone else was not necessarily because you're

a woman and you're being bullied.

So that was the, the guest of the first Rundle article.

And then the second one was more alike that faction that she's

part of is actually leaking a lot of this information.

To the press now about her allegations of bullying that she'd made to different

people at different times and, and almost ready to blow up the labor party

in the process giving ammunition to the other side and just really self

destructive work by her faction is all the allegations from the Rondel article.

And there was a, he seemed to know what he was talking about.

He

seemed to have done his homework.

Yes.

So I mean, she's dead now has passed away.

So there's no defamation against her.

Or she can't, you know, you can say whatever you like about

it, it's, you know, it's not nice to speak ill of the dead.

And a lot of this was.

Before her funeral, the day of a funeral it's pretty ugly, but the

fact that stuff was coming out and even at the funeral, the eulogy by

her husband was pretty antsy, you know, blaming the way she was treated.

So if people say, well, you shouldn't speak ill of the dead

on their day of the funeral.

Well, at a funeral, you shouldn't really be pointing at people and saying

you're bullying was kind of responsible in part for where we are today.

It's a very messy, ugly scenario, getting way more attention for the

wrong reasons than it should get.

And it was some very good articles in crikey by, by that thing.

And it was eye opening, mill jive for anyone in the labor party,

looking to participate in that, I'm thinking, oh my God, if this is what

factional battles are all about.

Yikes.

So despite all that shy on that very day, all that was happening, I did

renew my labor party membership.

I don't know why.

Yeah.

I've got to hurry up.

I've got a little 31st of March.

I renewed it.

Partly because there was a threat in there.

If you don't renew, then you'll lose your voting.

And at some stage down the track, Shay, I may need to vote for you in,

I don't get interested in factional warfare.

Sounds like I'll never get that, which I am not interested in the other side.

I just wanted to say about it was that almost the day after she

died, bill shorten went on, right.

RN breakfast.

Do you hear the interview?

So it did seem to be, I did.

And he did seem to be genuinely grieving.

It seems to be certainly on bad advice that he'd be there at all.

Basically toward the end, he said Maybe if I'd never got her into politics,

this wouldn't have happened, right?

Yeah.

One remark just set it off.

And I don't know what it's like for, I can't actually speak on behalf of

all women, but when I hear remarks like that, I hear she couldn't cope.

That's what I hear yelling at may by the Murdoch press with all this

shit is women can't cope in politics.

That's the message they want to deliver.

And yeah, I just twist with rage at that.

Yeah.

Because there doesn't seem to be anything in this that relates to her

specifically as being a woman there wasn't except for one comment by Penny Wong.

He said something to her at one point, oh, if you'd have had children, you wouldn't,

you wouldn't be doing what you're doing.

Some why she was voting or whatever it was.

So, and that was a comment by a woman, to a woman, the sort of attacks on her don't

appear to have been sexist in any way.

They just seem to have been ideological difference, factional difference, pretty

much what you'd expect if she was a man that doesn't seem to be anything

that was gender related to this at all.

But there is a response by some which seems to be, well, she should have been.

Treated better, but almost because she's a woman.

So look, I know that when you're a public figure, it's a bit different to

like politician versus a cricketer, or we certainly don't seem to be picking

apart Shane Warren's character, which some could very well be picked apart.

He's getting to die.

Well, lots of people were critical of Shane Warne over the years, and nobody

ever said that criticism killed him.

Exactly.

Yeah.

He's lovers.

But he had plenty of to track the tractors.

Yeah.

Things that got his heart pumping.

It was the press finding all of the bad comments.

Might've shown warning saying you killed him.

I'm serious.

Kill them.

Now, one of the things that's come up in this kitchen affair

is that she had made allegations of bullying at different times.

And she'd put it in writing.

And Randall says that that was done as part of legal warfare where basically

she laid the groundwork to that at a later stage, she could protect her

pre-selection by saying, look, you've been bullying me for the last two years.

Here's my allegations.

Have it in writing you better.

Pre-select me.

Otherwise, I'm going to blow the lid on how I've been

bullied like that essentially, I think is the Rundle argument.

So if true, that's a really, that's really playing a hard, tough.

Factional politics, where you're, where you're setting your

ammunition day on in advance.

And that reminded me, and I told you about it before the fall we started

recording, but dear listener, I I used to know a applying close detective

and he said that it was common.

Oh, actually.

And somebody in the chat might actually confirm as for us amongst

plain clothes detectives that even though mentally, they were feeling

fine that they would purposefully book appointments with a counselor or

a psychologist once or twice a year.

And just say things like, yeah, it's pretty stressful.

Sometimes it's gets to me, but I think I'm okay.

And really just sort of sowing the seeds of potential mental

difficulties with the job.

So that at a later point.

If they did something where they might want to have to claim they

were mentally unstable or whatnot.

They had a battery of psychiatry examinations that they could refer

to and say, yeah, you know, I have admins, you know, I did hit that guy,

that battery, that, you know, I've been battling demons and I've been seeing a

psychologist for the last four years, you know, twice a year sort of thing.

So people do do things like this, where they lay the groundwork just

in case they might need it later on.

So anybody in the my pre selection, if I was willing to forego this

podcast, join the right facts.

I had my.

Next next time.

That's why I've paid my mind.

But yeah, I think yeah, you almost need to find a seat that nobody's interested

in and hope that it builds up and becomes a winnable seats and then, and then hope

that I parachute somebody in on you.

Over the top in the meantime, that's the risks with these guys.

You gotta be good, but not too good.

Yeah.

And the seat's gotta be winnable, but not so winnable that they'll

perish some celebrity candidate.

That's a fine line.

Okay.

So yeah, that's kitchens now.

I think I will read a little bit of Michael West media.

He also had some good words to say, and I'll read some of it.

He said the ABC had a choice this week, amplifying verdicts Murdoch's

toxic mean girls coverage or expose NewsCorp for exploiting the death of

Kimberly kitchen for political purposes.

It made the wrong choice.

You management is in order.

Rupert Murdoch's news corporation is the story, not the sad sudden death of Senator

Kimberly kitchen, and certainly not the grotesque narrative being peddled by news.

Corp's rabid propagandists.

And let me just say, he says bullying's widespread.

He said there are some good writers out there and journalists I'll come back.

I think think I'll go to his last paragraph.

That kind of sums it up.

Morning TV and radio producers arrive at work around 4:00 AM.

They get their fodder mostly from nine and news, newspapers and websites,

largely without question, although the ABC radio is often better on scrutiny,

they reproduce the nine and news stories which are written of course in

line with coalition political agendas.

So it is that Morrison and co control the daily news cycle.

The corporate media rarely dares to follow anything in independent

media, such as Michael West or crikey or people like that.

It's too early in the morning and he concludes.

And increasingly captured media has spurred growth in independent

media, inspiring community support.

People know there is a problem.

Yeah.

We have the disadvantage of competing for audience against large

subsidized corporations having to buy texts and tackle defamation

threats with tiny balance sheets.

So actually that wasn't the last bit.

Let me find the last I'll skip that, but essentially he's right.

That that they're just lazy and look at what was printed in the paper, which is

just a propaganda sheet or what was on the news, which is also a propaganda sheet.

And just repeat it.

Meanwhile, things like friendly duties, you know, the friendly Jordy's

with the whole exposition on Dutton, not a peep, not, not a peep, but.

Mountains of stuff about Kimberly kitchen and not a paper a bit about Peter Dutton.

So that's the sad state of affairs of our media that we're in.

And yeah.

Keep looking at those independent sites.

What was that job?

I said they don't want the AFP kicking down the door.

That's why.

Yeah, but they've got the resources and yeah, I think they're lazy.

And I think, I mean, they've obviously got deadlines.

They're going to push out lots of stuff.

I don't think they've got time to stop and try and understand things,

but I'm might be a bit fearful.

Yeah.

They would be fearful as well, I guess.

And it's just the headache.

I mean, if you were to come out in a mainstream media piece and write

what crikey did about Kitching.

You know, that'd be complaints to the ABC board.

You'd be spend the next three weeks or three months probably answering

allegations of bias and having to report to the board and justify

your actions and all the rest of it.

It's quite possible.

You just think I can't, I can't do it.

I'll just give a fluff piece and move on.

Cause it's not worth the effort.

I don't know.

Maybe.

So, but it's depressing.

I want you, I want you to be a listener.

Let me just see what other comments some of the comments

on Twitter quite good on this.

So one lady said, give me a call when the ILP has been implicated for a

suicide whereby the victim was also allegedly raped by an attorney general

and the investigation allegedly scuttled by the new south Wales police.

Good point.

Imagine if the media took and ran with the allegations against Peter Dutton

that were laid out recently, as hard as they're piling on the bullying

allegations against labor Linda Reynolds called a staff member who alleged rape

Aline cow, openly to other staff yet the LNP want to talk about bullying.

Todd Cameron says the Murdoch empire who illegally hacked a murdered schoolgirl's

phone, bragged police and disgraced.

Journalism has again cut its.

Characterizations loose to attack labor and protect Morrison this

disgusting organization and its rags are a blight on decency in democracy.

That is so true.

Yeah, so, so that was all that on kitchens and mean girls RT has been told to talk

up who's the Fox talking head Fox news.

Yeah.

I know the guy you mean, but I can't.

Well apparently he's been so pro Putin and pro Russia, RT had been

told to use his clips or often is.

Speaking of RT my interview on RT, I did find somewhere I'll

put a link in the show notes.

So if you want to see my art team interview, it is out there not an

artsy, but somebody else's sort of do you need me to buy it for you?

Yes, maybe.

So.

So it is still out there.

I just like the comments on it because these people in the comment

section, you know, obviously call me evil and all sorts of stuff, but the

best part is they think I'm Jewish.

I say, look at his nose.

He's got so yeah, we need to archive it for posterity, just for the comments.

Let's see.

So elbows looking good.

Like he's lost weight.

He's won some lovely fittings suits.

Hair's looking good.

And your glasses, maybe you sort of, the crew have met em and they, they

all say, oh, I got some time for Alba.

They never said about bill shorten.

And Scott Morrison said in response to that, I'm not

pretending to be anybody else.

I'm still wearing the same sunglasses, sadly, the same suits.

I lie about the same size.

And I don't mind a bit of Italian cuisine.

I'm not pretending to be anyone else.

And when you're prime minister, you can't pretend to be anyone else.

So he wasn't pretending to be a hairdresser or a welder

that's right.

Or a bloke from the the, the west end of Sydney.

Yeah.

It's just relentless.

He's lying.

So he doesn't think he's.

He just doesn't think people are.

Yeah, I dunno.

He must know he's lying a bit.

I dunno.

It's tied to psychoanalyze.

Yes.

Yes.

He just thinks he's a good guy.

They're all bad guys.

Sandwich like ends justify the means nobody's listening anyway.

I'll just wrap it things off and it doesn't matter whether it's true or not.

And whether I get fact-checked doesn't matter because nobody

will really fact checkers and I'll get my soundbite and I'll set

another I'll, I'll be in the news.

It's just ludicrous for him to say that he doesn't pretend to be someone

else when every minute of the day he's welding something without a

proper mask on, or he's going to visit Harvey's vest on a truck,

tooting the horn, or as you're saying, washing somebody's hair or whatever.

Goodness me.

So Actually a shy this is a good one to check with you about let me just find

I'll just get this thing up on the screen.

And it's

There was a logo for the women's network, another government initiative.

And so it's up on the screen.

Most people would have seen this about this women's network logo and okay.

It seems that the consensus is that it looks like men or men's genitalia.

Shall we?

Sorry.

I dunno.

I looked at it and I thought it was a temp, a tampon with that

was my immediate impression.

And I was reading some other comments where this woman said, she looked at

it and thought it was man's genitalia.

And her husband looked at it and thought it was women's breasts.

So this is a bit like those ink stones where you put something in front of

somebody and you say, what do you see that tells you something about

the person, the mommy and daddy?

I actually do see that now.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

It's like that milkshake commercial thing, without trying to demonstrate

how to give informed consent with the lamest milkshake video, there's

nothing this government can get, right.

They can't even do a women's network or logo without just stuffing it up.

So

Nobody was, nobody was tested.

Nobody was like, when you look at this

really inspired and empowered by that ladies, deliberate, they were seeing if

they could pull one over, maybe, maybe got a bay, it's got to be a dig in.

It's got to be a dig.

Yeah.

Well it's like I was saying a few weeks ago, the Morrison

government is like the producers.

It's a, it's a satirical performance.

They're just, they're not serious.

They're trying to just let the producers charge.

Run a Broadway play that everyone would hate because of a tax scam.

And it would be a disaster.

Somehow Morrison is running a government on purpose that if I'm

will hate for some scam, that hasn't yet quite become apparent to me,

but he can genuinely be trying.

I wouldn't have thought with, it's got to be, it's just,

yeah, he's throwing this out.

So now these pesky women get upset, so he doesn't have to do anything.

And then he did the milkshake ad and it wasn't suitable because all the work

left, people think it's not good enough.

So he doesn't have to do anything.

Yeah.

So, you know, he has done one thing though.

He's made an announcement for the poor people of Ukraine.

Guess what?

We're sending them.

Oh, how much coal scapes.

Oh, honestly, if you see the headline.

If you swear that you're watching, you're just reading the chaser headlines or the

Petula advocate or something Australia helping Ukraine sending over ship.

There was a, I smelled money.

I'm just trying to remember I think it was independent Australia.

There was an article that said why are we sending Australian coal?

Because it's going to cost us a fortune to ship it.

We're going to have to ship it to Poland.

And they dig up coal in Poland.

So we could've just bought coal in Poland from the Polish directly.

And what's the odds.

It never actually arrives.

And we've just paid this coal company, $20 million for coal.

Yeah.

It's another way of just basically giving money to coal.

And to be liberal donors.

Yes.

I was going to say, you see if you just gave money to the Ukrainian so they

could buy it from the polls that would bypass the whole transfer of money

to a liberal party donor, basically.

Yeah.

So it might be my industrial deafness.

You're a little quiet.

Okay, excellent again.

Okay.

All right.

So that's what Morrison has done.

He's delivered a shipload of Caldwell.

Well, he's announced, of course this is just, it's always about

announcements with this group.

So the polling is looking horrendous for the Morrison government.

I've got some polls, but they're kind of like two weeks old now.

So but every poll you see now seems to show that that delay.

It's going well, even a very recent poll from Roy Morgan

showed they were going well.

And it seems impossible for the LMP to win the next election, but stranger

things have happened ever made.

So let me just there's one other thing that came up, I want to share

this one, if I can, is I don't know if you saw this picture at all.

Yes.

Yes.

I've also seen various captions added to the cat.

Yes, indeed.

So he just tries to paint himself as something that he's not.

And a cat has now appeared in the Morrison household that nobody's ever

seen before and press looking at.

Yes.

And Scott Morrison's.

Comment for his own photo was you've met buddy before, but this is Charlie.

He's been a part of our family for almost 10 years.

And he's definitely in charge.

And most Twitter comments were a variation of the theme, which

was Amy's cat fucking an item.

So,

yeah, so that was the Morrison cats.

I mean, it's a Morrison bash Fest I'm on, but every everything you just turns to.

So you know, he announced that we are a launch nation.

We are a space nation.

We are an astronauts name.

We were a nation that had space lab fall on it.

But aside from that was about the closest we'd go.

Not only do.

He himself pretend to be things that he's not, but he's now

projecting that onto the rest of it.

We are a launch nation.

We are a space nation.

We are an astronaut nation.

You can get in front of the camera and just say the most complete shit.

I, I th I think he ought to somebody ought to slip the space Australia

website and let him announce that you've seen space Australia.

No, it's Australian research and space exploration, right.

Known by their acronym.

A R S E.

Oh, okay.

I honestly say very good.

There's a website and you can buy t-shirts with ARS on them.

Yep.

Okay.

Yeah.

Julia says, can we get a content warning before you put up Morrison photos?

I felt ill now.

Yeah.

So that is true.

Okay.

I won't put up the Peter Dutton photo then in that case, I'll hold that one off.

Yeah.

So, so then our Dutton, I believe today announced space force because there was

an article in the Australian saying that he was going to, this is an article I

got from a couple of days ago saying that today on Tuesday, defense minister,

Peter Dutton will flag the creation of an Australian space force in a speech

on Tuesday, marking the standing up of a new space command division within the

Australian Royal Australian air force.

I mean, this is an example of injustice of a government that we pay

for just dropping scoops on to their favorite media outlets, arguing the

Australian should not be a thing.

Anyway he says, he'll tell the air force is Aaron space power conference that

the growing militarization of space will require Australia take a more proactive

role to deter attacks on the nations satellite assets make motor space.

We are looking forward.

It's a necessary endeavor with a view to protecting our national interests.

Now our need for a space force in the future.

The reference to an Australian space force suggests a fully fledged branch

of the armed forces that would stand alongside the army Navy and air force.

And as Bernard Keane and crikey points out, we can't look after flood victims

or aged care residents or provide housing for young people or mental health

services or close the gap, but let's have a media release about space force.

Again, it's just, they just love an announcement.

And yeah, space force.

Did anybody go?

What a great thing.

What a great idea.

I'm all for that.

And I can, I can easily conceive the government pulling this off.

Surely not.

No, no.

So there'll be just yet another announcement I flee

where nothing ever happens.

Talking of space forces.

Do you see the cosmic olds?

Was this where they've sort of been redacted from something they, they turned

up on the ISS, I think wearing yellow uniforms with blue flashes on it because

they, yeah, they apparently had lots of leftover material and it was nothing

to do with them supporting your grain.

Is that right side Russian cosmonauts war.

Ukrainian colors in spice?

Yes.

I think I saw the picture, but I didn't actually read the article.

So yeah.

What else have we got here?

So there's a guy called Shane stone haze, the national recovery

and resilience agency coordinated.

And he was appointed to the job by Scott Morrison to help people in the

regions, cope with floods and fires.

And and he effectively blind the F the victims.

He said, you've got people who want to live among the gumtrees.

What do you think is going to happen?

The house falls in the river.

And I say, it's the government's fault.

And this is the guy in charge of the national recovery and resilience.

How did the guys like this get into these positions with zero empathy for the people

who supposed to be helping, obviously it might've Scott Morrison saying, well, it

sounds, sounds like hell some really, yes.

There were questions asked about how much the Hillsong church

would doing for the flood victims.

Yeah.

Not a dollar to be seen, no doubt all by the way, always in Lismore and the

last week and a complete disaster design driving into Murwillumbah just the

streets lining the mind routing of just got mountains of mattresses furniture,

just piled meat is high in front of the houses, waiting for the skip to come along

to be dumped into, or just picked up.

And it's a disaster designed the truck that headed down to Kirribilli house, no

headed down from, I think it was Lismore with a truck full of just flood Detroit.

Right.

Cause they were going to dump the doorway of Kara valley house only to

find that the police had closed the road.

So they took various bits and pieces, including a door that had

got soaked and wrote messages on it.

And then post for photos outside Kirribilli house with all the flood

debris basically saying Morrison, this is a, this is your inaction

on climate change has caused this.

You're responsible.

Yeah.

So yeah, people in Lismore totally crushed customers of mine who have

been there for, you know, their entire lives and run businesses in the

CBD and to live by the flood plain.

Yes, indeed.

And they're all crushed and that town, I can't see it recovering those people.

Can't do it again.

So it's really sad.

It's not like you could just, you know, like grant them here in Queensland.

Flooded.

It was just a small little town and they basically found a plot of land

on high ground and just shifted the entire town to higher ground.

But I don't think you can do that in Lismore.

I it's, it's too big.

And B there's just not a lot of land around that.

Isn't on a floodplain in that area.

There's not a lot of high ground to go to, but I mean it's conversation on

Sunday with a friend of mine and you can't do this in the Pacific islands either.

You can't move the people of fade J to fucking high ground.

You have to do something

other than this.

Yeah.

We're not, we're not listening.

If you look at new Orleans, although they flooded from time to time, it's the army

Corps of engineers who are responsible for building and maintaining all the

flood prevention works all the levees.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, so they're basically, they say, if we keep them trained on civilian projects,

when it comes to time of war, they actually know what they're doing, Ryan.

Okay.

I don't know if we have a similar core here, but no, it's it.

So there were places like there's a new Bunnings built, which was built

since the last, the previous flood and was meant to be on clear dry lane.

Like they'd looked at the worst floods before and built a Bunnings store

and it was a meter under by customer.

They had a two-story buildings that I needed everything

up onto the second floor.

And the second floor was flooded.

Like it was like four meters or more of water in this town.

It's not just waist high.

It's an unbelievably deep flooding of, of the town.

And yeah, they're just gutted feel sorry for them.

Don't know what will happen.

I think, you know, no insurance company will insure these people

has to be a government to be beside government insurance.

I've seen some arguments against national reinsurance saying that at the end of the

day it doesn't work and it just basically encourages risky, risky development

because somebody else is wearing the risk.

Yes.

Yep.

I don't know what the solution is.

Maybe the town of there's more dies.

Maybe it was already, maybe it was already dying.

I don't know, but I just feel sorry for them.

So let me just go back to my list here.

I just wanted to say that I think it was today.

What's the date today is 22nd.

Yeah.

The Sydney morning Herald just reported that the new south Wales

planning minister scrapped an order to consider flood fire risks before

building what not already flood fly files, planning, minister, minister,

Anthony Roberts scrapped a requirement to consider the risks of floods and

fires before building new homes.

Only two weeks after it came into effect.

And while the state was reeling from a deadly environmental design.

So he's revoked a ministerial directive by his predecessor, Robert

Stokes, outlining nine principles for sustainable development, including

managing the risks of climate change, a decision top architects of branded

built, slotted and hard to understand.

So they're not just doing nothing.

They're actively being negligent.

Oh, well develop this.

We'll be happy.

You sold SaaS and lay by the way.

Talking about environmental change.

Was that a comment about.

Yeah, 20 years ago, you'd never have the defense force

involved in projects like this.

Oh no, no.

That was Mackenzie.

Sorry.

It's hard to keep track.

Isn't she won.

She won the appeal against the kids.

Yes, that's right.

Yes.

Yes.

So there was a case deal listener where a court had ruled, I think

at the federal court level, maybe single judge that a minister had a

duty to the future generations to generations, a duty of care, and by

expanding new coal mines, that was a breach of that duty potentially.

But on appeal, it was found that in fact, they don't have a duty of care.

Cause to celebrate for the minister and everybody else.

Yeah.

She was saying, look, everyone's taken it's a bit out of country.

Oh, of course I have a duty of care.

Of course, I take my job very seriously.

The court ruled that I am just mating the rules of my, you know, my obligation as

a minister and that I have made in those.

And I don't have to do anymore just to stop getting upset.

And she just like pants as she talks.

Yeah.

Just to get me back to the floods.

Prime minister, Scott Morrison announced extra financial support would be available

for the people in Lismore, Richmond valley and Clarence valley, which will

sit in the nationals health seat of page.

The neighboring flood affected local government areas of Ballina bar and, and

Tweed all in Libre hill seated Richmond have not received the extra $2,000 per.

And I can tell you people in Ballina flooded and people in the Willem

bar are flooded and that was just outrageous and full marks to Catherine

Cusak who was a state Senator.

And she basically a liberal party state Senator.

He resigned from the liberal party sign.

I can't defend that on just outraged, but the whole Northern rivers should

have been given funding according to their needs, not according

to their local government area.

And.

There we go, somebody with some principle, finally, Catherine Cusak.

Good on you as just isn't it sad?

That's the only thing available to her left though.

That's the only thing she, she can do where she might actually be able to make

some noise, which is resigned, not just get on the phone, so that dip shit at

the helm and say, listen, you schmuck.

Yeah.

So you know, it's not Morrison's money.

It's not coming out of his own pocket.

Why would you just, if got to be so lousy, you're going to be so lousy not to just

provide it to the people who need it.

Nobody is going to criticize you for that.

Yeah, no, no.

It's not to spend on voters.

It's to spend on Yeah.

And it's donors who, who will be objecting if he doesn't spend it on them.

Yes.

So donors or electorates where you think you need it for keep your electric.

I mean, it's just a litany of terrible things.

Oh, sorry.

Do you listen to, it's a depressing podcast, but it just keep cataloging

this nonsense, this crap, these crappy decisions that are just so

unnecessary, they're just assholes who just don't give a shit.

And what, you know, it's hard to say.

What more, what more can you say?

Vote them out.

Yeah, please.

Stuart Robert acting education minister.

Hey blind, the bottom 10% of teachers who can't read and write for

Australia is plummeting performance.

In international education, benchmark tests, his comments were widely

reported and came in a speech to independent schools conference,

where he made a very clear where these dud teachers can be found.

And it's not in the independent school system.

Quite, you just don't have them.

You don't have the bottom 10% of teachers dragon.

The Chinese said that for every teacher you don't have in your

organization, guests whereby go and quote government schools, apparently.

So Scandinavia where they have its own state run schools.

Yeah.

And what our education outcomes.

Yeah.

There are dud teachers out there for sure, but the duds in the independent

and in the government sector and And it was just this pro private school

rant by the acting education minister.

That's just great.

Isn't it?

The education minister, not just, he's not independent school education minister.

He's the education minister.

And he just bagged the government sector.

Hang on, hang on the state schools, the state schools.

Yeah.

Yep.

I'll just keep going on with a litany of bad news and bad decisions.

Housing affordability.

I wonder if I put this one up in the yes I did.

Okay.

So you want more good news deal listener or bad news.

I'm sorry to do this to you.

Why isn't that showing up as a.

I'll just tell you what it says, housing market's ranked by affordability.

So what they did was they looked at the median house, the median house price.

So median house price D listener is all the houses sold in a particular year.

Look at the cheapest house and the most expensive house and put

them in a list from top to bottom.

And the one in the middle of that list is the median house price.

And then you've got the median household income, same thing.

And so what they did was they took the median house price and divided

it by the median house income.

So you would want that proportion to be as low as possible.

So in Hong Kong, China, which has the number one spot for the least afforded.

The multiple is 23.2.

Meaning the median house price is 23 times the median house income.

So that's by far the worst Hong Kong.

Number two on the list, Sydney 15.3.

So the median house price divided by the median house income, multiple of 15.

And here's the terrifying part.

I'll read the top 10 Hong Kong Sydney then Cleaver San Jose,

Melbourne Honolulu, San Francisco, or Oakland Los Angeles, Toronto.

So we've got Sydney and Melbourne at number two and number five

and we've got London is number 13 and Adelaide is number four.

Brisbane number 17, her number 20.

So Australia's capital cities except for Hobart and Darwin.

But basically Sydney, Melbourne two and five and Adelaide at 14 Brisbane at 17 and

Perth at 20 as housing affordability been mentioned at all in discussions by either

party about to do anything, no, probably require you to take away negative gearing

and with an average of what was it?

4.2 houses per MP, right?

Is that what it is?

Yes.

It's something like that.

Yeah.

It's not easily solved.

That's the problem now also saw an article from the Lancet, which looked

at excess mortality rights in terms.

That was interesting.

Yeah.

Terms of trying to see which let me just try and get this up.

Lockdowns don't work.

Yeah.

Lock downs.

Don't work.

Maybe I can get this up now.

Yes I can.

Yep.

So there's a map.

So it's interesting when you try to work out how many people have died because of

COVID and there's all these arguments.

Well, people who, you know, they might've had COVID, but they

really died of some other thing.

They just happen to have covered.

And I mean, that's a fair enough argument.

It would be tricky.

And particularly in crisis situations where lots of people dying, it'd

be really tricky to, to come up with the correct figure for what,

how many people died of COVID.

But the Lancet argued in this article that really the best

method is to look at excess deaths.

So you really look at a pattern of five years prior to the pandemic.

How many people would you expect to die in a year based on the

average of the previous five years.

And then you look at how many people actually died and you say, well the

difference is probably due to the pandemic and that's probably as good

a figure as we're ever going to get.

And it seems to suggest that the numbers are much greater

than I would be otherwise.

By counting in other methods.

So using that excess deaths sort of data shows a high number of deaths

quite often, if you look at that graph that's on the screen, it's

sort of color-coded and looking at Australia, New Zealand that dark blue

is obviously where you, what are they?

And the orange is where you don't want to be.

And the interesting thing about Australia was that we are actually,

if you're looking at excess deaths in a situation where I'll just re

quote from the report here, there's been negative excess mortality rates.

So the number of people who have died is actually less than what you would expect.

If you looked at the average and they say, in this report, we estimated that

several countries, including Australia, New Zealand, Negative excess mortality

during the pandemic, the observation is probably due to decreases in

mortality from diseases and injuries for which exposure to related risks

has been reduced during the pandemic.

So young Steve had met and I haven't got a chance to go out and be young and stupid.

Yes, indeed.

That sort of thing is, you know, people aren't commuting, they're not driving

as much, all those other factors.

So we're actually, when you look at that graph in a as mean excess

mortality, it's, it's, it's actually in the other direction.

So, so that was interesting.

There was a case in the Northern territory like going to get the

dime wrong Coleman Giles Walker, who was shot by a policeman Zachary.

And Zachary Rolf was charged with murder or manslaughter.

I'm not sure which, but both, both wasn't and found not guilty.

And the interesting thing I found from this was basically people were looking

at the jury and complaining that the jury didn't have any indigenous people on it.

And I thought the interesting part of it was that the way it was framed was if

you read carefully, the elders said that there was nobody noticeably indigenous

on the jury because you can't tell.

They don't, you don't have to fill in your indigenous status and a jury form.

I don't think.

And certainly that information isn't made public, if it is.

And it was really a case of people just looking at the jury and

saying, well, they don't seem to be indigenous, but you just can't tell

by looking at a jury, it's possible that half of them were indigenous.

You would never, it's unlikely, but just looking at so yeah, I just

found it interesting in some of the comments where people weren't

careful in the way they decide that.

And they just assumed that there was no indigenous people on that

jury and other people were better with a language in saying there

was nobody noticeably indigenous on that jury because we don't know.

Apparently the demographics is 30% of the territory are indigenous.

Right.

Yep.

Hey Joe, when I was here a screen and then I take it off.

Does that, does that mean the chat disappears?

Is that how that no, no, no.

I, because the graph was quite small, I took the charge off.

Okay.

But, okay.

That's how that happened.

Sorry.

Yeah, so it's a tricky one, isn't it?

I mean, people have to be on the electoral roll and have to respond when they get

a notice to say you've got jury duty.

And this is one of those things when people talk about critical race theory

and you know, the whole idea of critical race theory was that you can make laws

that on the face of them are unbiased, but you might because of the way the

system works, get a biased result.

So critical race theory would say, sure, anybody who wants to be

on the electoral roll can be on.

And participate in the jury system.

And there is nothing in our system, which legally prohibits indigenous

people is nothing specific in the legislation about indigenous people.

It's pro white people that would lead to a result of having an all white jury.

But the fact that there's a system where people in indigenous cultures,

you know, don't having a bode with, I get correspondence, you know, culturally

don't register for these things.

A whole range of factors involved with travel would be a problem as well.

Yeah.

A whole range of reasons that may in Baxley don't appear on juries to the chat.

So as the check disappeared, Joe's, hasn't when you put the chat back up

owning you the messages of people.

Okay.

So, yeah, so that's sort of the critical race theory approach, these

things where you can have what seems to be neutral laws, but you end up

with results that aren't neutral.

And I don't know what the solution is in this case.

And it was an idea I'm a lazy, there was an article talking about him being

found, not guilty unsaid effectively.

Yeah.

It was a justified self-defense killing.

And the problem isn't with that, the problem is a society that sets it up

where it's always a black man being angry at the system, possibly and white

man with a gun being the policeman.

And so the single case is justified homicide, but the society that sets it

up in that way, it is skewed against the indigenous people ever broken.

Yes.

Yep.

I think the argument was that a previously, I think had been, I think

the idea was the elders were going to bring him in, but there was a funeral

that die and it was like, let's just see the dyad and we'll bring

him in the next day sort of thing.

But yeah.

It's tricky.

So anyway, I just thought that was interesting things going on there in

terms of the appearance of whether people appear to be indigenous or not.

And according to spec of what you said about having a solution, I

just did a subject in justice, policing diversity groups.

So policing looking at placing the homeless, looking at policing

Indigenous people, that type of thing.

And the only thing that really has any empirical evidence that

it may work is familiarity.

So saying is saying yourself basically, right?

Meaning you're having black coppers, having black coppers, having black

jurors, having that sort of thing.

Black judges, black magistrates, black politicians unfortunately

is not much appeal for indigenous people to become cops.

So the option is possibly having them just saying more in other, other places like in

the arts and media and that sort of thing.

But.

Like to here as a potential juror shortly after the verdict was handed down,

ABC news reported that here's what the jurors in the murder trial of Constable

Zachary roll weren't allowed to hear before handing down their verdict.

Yeah.

So the jury didn't know was that for two years lawyers who stood before them

had been arguing over what could and could not be included in the trial.

Like, it's really hard for us to say I wouldn't, I wouldn't say anyone's

in a position here that hasn't sat down and heard all the evidence.

So unless you've sat in the whole trial, we know we're just

spending a whole episode talking about how the media skew things.

The way they like so and in, okay.

And what you've got here is a case where pretty much the prosecution admitted

that the first shot was valid and it was the second and third shots that weren't.

And so it was all about the two second delay between the

first and the second shot.

And so, you know, you've, you've got, you've got the prosecution

saying the first shot was okay, so you're halfway there.

If you've, if you know, we know that much.

So yeah, until you sit down and you hear all of it and beyond a reasonable

doubt, be sure that it's an high bar, so it doesn't surprise me in

the least excellent jury selection.

I remember.

Doing my time as a juror.

And most of the cases where sexual assault when we went in for jury selection,

I noticed the defense always picked young females, not on the jury, right.

That they're more likely to have empathy to the victim.

And so defense didn't want them on.

Right.

And, you know, in theory, you could have had 30% of your potential jurors as

being indigenous and the defense would have gone challenge to every single one.

Yeah.

But you can only challenge.

I don't think, I think America and England do it that way, but I don't

think Australia, Australia, the lawyers pink, who they get do they,

you can challenge, but you run, but you have a limited number of challenges.

So you can't challenge relentlessly.

You run out of them.

So you have a challenge for.

And then you have a challenge without cause, but you've only got a certain

number and you, and you run out of them.

So but if you do it strategically, yes.

Still, if you have enough people on the panel, you know, eventually just run

out of challenges and people get on.

So yeah.

Yeah.

So that was that that's oh, the other thing was, it turned out that Ben

Robert Smith is a mentor for that guy.

Did you know that?

Just to put a strange coincidence in the wills and the bedroom myth trial, his

mother had said this guy had been in.

Yes.

The other way round, something like that.

I think it was again, somebody who was presumably trying to

help the Ben Roberts case yes.

Was not helping.

Yeah.

So that was the bit that slipped in there.

Okay.

I think I think we're getting close.

I think we've, we've done enough unless you guys had something you

want to get off your chest, then I reckon we will call it a night

because I'm on new south Wales time.

It's 10 o'clock here.

I'm going to get the bed.

Yeah.

So I'm a ton, the warehouse guy.

He's he's working hard on other stuff, but send a message.

He's going to look at the stuff.

Thanks, Tom.

Alright.

Dear listener, thanks for joining in.

I will be back next week with something, not sure what at this stage.

And thanks, Shea.

Thank you.

Good night.

Thanks Jake.

And it's a good night for man DL listener.

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