(Encore of Episode 05)

“I’m Speaking.”  We all remember that magical, kick-ass Kamala Harris moment, right?  

We encourage our daughters to be assertive, share their stories, and speak up. But when we teach them that interrupting is impolite and rude, are we inadvertently undermining their ability to rightfully claim airtime -- even if they’re interrupted by someone else?  Will they choose politeness over being heard?  Will they be afraid to assert themselves in a lively discussion, afraid that they’ll offend? 

Listen to hear:

• The different social norms for boys and girls
• Disparities in how much men talk versus women in executive settings
• The 10 words every girl needs to learn, according to Soraya Chemaly
• Sample phrases illustrating how to interrupt
• What to tell your daughters to make them feel more comfortable with interrupting

Know Them, Be Them, Raise Them

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Hi, everyone.

As I mentioned in last week's episode, I've decided to take my foot off the new

episode pedal for a short summer hiatus.

This is my first summer as a podcaster and I underestimated how thrown off I would

be by the perfect storm of kid activities, or lack thereof, traveling and bouts

of unexpected events like summer colds, block parties, house repairs, et cetera.

I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

I also realized that I really wanted a short break to step back

and plan out what the podcast will look like for the next season.

So rather than release new episodes, I'm sharing a handful of the top

episodes for the next few weeks.

I know that every episode is packed with information, even

though they're relatively short.

So consider this a chance to listen to fan favorite episodes you haven't

heard before, or if you're a loyal listener, maybe you'll find yourself

celebrating how far you've come or how much you remember since you listened

to this episode, the first time.

Whatever camp you fall into.

I am so glad you're here and I hope you're enjoying summer.

I'll be returning with new episodes for season two, which launches in August.

If you haven't done so already head to no be raise them.com or the show

notes and sign up for my email list.

You'll be the first to know about upcoming projects, including a collective

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Raise them.

Thanks for listening.

Welcome to know them.

Be them, raise them a show to help moms stay informed and inspired so

they can show up for themselves and their daughters the way they want to.

I'm your host, Carmelita two, join me each week.

As I cover a variety of topics, all designed to support, mindful and growth

oriented moms of girls, especially girls in their crucial queen and teen years

today, I'm sharing my own thoughts about something that came up not too long.

And left me wondering,

I was waiting for the train in earshot of a small group of teens.

And I noticed one person kept talking over and interrupting the others.

Now I completely understand how tweens and teens much like any group can get riled up

and in their excitement, chatter overlaps sentences get finished in a congenial way.

And voices naturally get lost in the.

But in this particular scenario, it seemed that a couple of girls were

being talked over and they just weren't being allowed to speak much.

Or have a say about the conversation topic.

I know this because as moms, we naturally developed some serious VES dropping

skills so I'm half listening and I kept hearing this one person interrupt others

time and time again, I kind of wanted to turn around and ask this person.

Do you realize you've been interrupting everyone else, let them speak and

then tell the girls interrupt back.

You were rudely interrupted.

So you go ahead and interrupt back.

it got me thinking, why didn't they interrupt back?

Did they really not care to finish their thoughts?

Or were they too polite or nice to call out the interrupter or

jump back in with their opinions?

I encourage my daughters to be assertive, to share their stories and participate.

But by raising my daughters to think that manners are morals and

interrupting is impolite and rude.

Am I inadvertently undermining their ability to rightfully claim air time?

Will they be afraid to assert themselves in a lively discussion,

afraid that they'll offend?

Will they choose politeness over being heard?

Or maybe they'll practice their manners and wait for a, a pause, a

time to reenter the conversation.

But what if the topic takes a turn and moves on and their point becomes

irrelevant as I'm sure you're aware, women and girls are conditioned to be

nice much more than men and boys Soia Shamali author of rage becomes her.

The power of women's anger puts it.

This.

globally.

Childhood politeness lessons are gender asymmetrical.

We socialize girls to take turns, listen more carefully,

not curse and resist interrupting in ways we don't expect of boys.

Put another way.

We generally teach girls subservient habits and boys to exercise dominance.

She also adds parents interrupt girls twice as often and hold

them to stricter politeness norm.

teachers engage boys who correctly see disruptive speech as a marker

of dominant masculinity, more often and more dynamically than girls.

All of this leads to boys and men being more prone to interrupt and

prevent others from interrupting them while girls and women are more

likely not to interrupt and yield.

When interrupted this pattern established from a young age, leads to women

being seen as having less authority.

Shamali sites research that found in male dominated problem, solving

groups, such as boards, committees, and legislators, men speak 75% more than

women, which is why researchers summed up.

Having a seat at the table is not the same as having a voice.

And what if your daughter is quieter by nature?

One of my daughters presents as more introverted and quiet, so I'm

always curious and maybe concerned that she's not speaking up and

being heard for girls like her.

that adds another obstacle.

Another layer of hesitation on top of the gendered expectations of politeness.

It's a lot to try and wrap your head around.

I suspect we need to address this as much as possible when girls are growing up.

when they presumably have safe spaces in the classroom and at home when they've

been less worn down by everyday slights.

And when the gender gaps on boards in pay, et cetera, haven't been

subconsciously normalized yet.

So how can we strike a balance?

How can we help ensure our daughters feel comfortable, continuing to speak

their minds and holding their own without entirely forsaking good manners.

And if you're like me, If I have to interrupt, I'd rather do so

in a user friendly way, that's less likely to alienate others.

It can build trust and allyship, both important qualities

to have in any setting.

So after digging around, here's what I wanna teach my girls.

Number one, interrupting.

And whether interrupting back is appropriate.

Depends on the context.

A judge interrupting a lawyer in the courtroom is different than a teacher

interrupting a student to make a correction, which is also different

from a classmate interrupting as you're sharing your opinion on climate change.

there aren't any real hard and fast rules, but as a very loose general

rule, if it's in a casual setting, a classroom discussion or a work meeting,

I think you should speak confidently and feel comfortable preventing

interruptions from others and interrupt back if someone does, which leads me

to my second point, interrupting back.

If you're in one of those contexts, then you can and should interrupt back

when you've been rudely interrupted.

Think of Kamala Harris during the vice presidential debates in 2020,

and confidently say, I'm speaking and continue with your thoughts when someone

tries to interrupt other options, depending on your personality might

be, would you mind if I finish or I'm not quite done with my point yet, or

maybe as soon as I'm done, then you can.

Then when you're done speaking, you can loop back to them and say, okay,

so, and so you wanted to say something, number three, practice, and be prepared

to use the phrases that PSIA Shamali proffers in her article 10 simple words.

Every girl needs to learn first stopped interrupting me second.

I just said that.

And third, no explanation needed.

It's 10, 10 words between three phrases.

Stop interrupting me.

I just said that and no explanation needed.

These are straightforward ways of getting the point across and

taking back the conversation.

Number four, when you have to initiate an interruption, Casey, Aaron Clark and Julie

fog, a vital voice offer a few approaches.

You can acknowledge the previous point first.

That's a really good point, or I hear what you're saying, then

continue with your thoughts.

You can also begin by saying, I need to interrupt you for a second

before we switch topics, or I need to interrupt you before we move on.

If you can use your interruption to throw support behind a classmate or a

colleague, then even better, this ties back to that allyship aspect as well.

Like, you know, related to this discussion point, Ella just did a paper on that.

number five when interrupting speak confidently loudly, and without any

apologies, I used to be one of those people that said, sorry, way too often.

Even when I was bumping at the table, like who was I hurting?

No one.

And even when I wasn't saying, sorry, I sometimes spoke, like I was apologizing.

I know you've heard it that, so I, I, I need you to turn in

this report, that kind of thing.

I've become much better at that, but it took practice speaking with courage

and confidence, and I hope my girls learn that and know that practicing

will help them feel those emotions too.

Number six, don't confuse a step outside of your comfort zone with a misstep

don't let discomfort or fear stop you from standing up for yourself or others.

Number seven.

Remember you are not responsible for everyone.

Else's feelings.

Know what you need to say and know that you deserve to be heard, how

other people take it is their problem.

That's not to say you should completely disregard others' feelings in every

context, but if you are interrupting back, And or are interrupting someone who

may consciously or subconsciously think men have more authority and should speak

more than women, then they'll likely be offended, but that's not your problem.

Don't silence yourself to make someone else comfortable.

As I wrote these, I realized that I'm still practicing and fine tuning most of

these points, these tips are just as much for me at 46 as they are for my daughters.

I'm definitely a product of societal expectations and gendered behavior

of the seventies, eighties, nineties.

But I'm optimistic that if I start impressing these ideas

upon my daughters, now they'll.

Skills that they practice then Excel at and over time

they'll become second nature.

And then if they're interrupted at Thanksgiving dinner or perhaps

a vice presidential debate, I'll be so proud and tickled

to hear them interrupt back with an unapologetic.

I'm speaking.

Thanks for joining me today.

It takes action to claim something.

So by listening, you've already shown that you're the kind of mom who shows

up for herself and her daughter Woohoo.

That's worthy of a high five and a thumbs up emoji.

For sure.

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Thanks again for listening and here's to strong women.

May we know them?

May we be them?