Rebecca Nixon is joined by Chad Link and Rob Brower from Swyvvl, a US startup aiming to cut the middlemen out of real estate. Drawing on Rob’s experience running three brokerages, they share why the traditional process feels broken, what they’re doing differently, and how they’re navigating the challenges of pitching and growing as a lean team.

In this episode:

• Why Swyvvl believes real estate needs fewer middlemen
• Lessons from running brokerages and spotting gaps in the system
• The reality of pitching and building traction as a US startup
• Where the UK and US property markets overlap - and where they don’t

Alright, welcome to the

PropTech Growth Podcast.

2

Today I am joined by Chad and Rock

from Swivel over in the States.

3

And we're gonna learn a bit

about the product that they're

4

working on and how they're.

5

Applying their commercial growth

tactics soon to the UK market.

6

So why don't you guys start off by

giving just a really quick intro to our

7

listeners who might not know who you

are yet, and let us know on very high

8

level what it is that you're up to.

9

Alright, I'll start out.

10

My name is Chad and I'm the

CEO and Co-founder for Swivel.

11

And swivel is a new real estate

website that makes the home buyer and

12

home selling process more equitable

or removing middlemen like Redfin,

13

realtor and Zillow here in the

United States from the equation.

14

Most home buyers and home sellers have

no idea that these platforms are making

15

billions of dollars every year by selling

their information to real estate agents.

16

So our goal is to be able to remove

those middlemen, give that money back

17

to home buyers and home sellers so that

they can use it in order to purchase

18

their homes, and then also give it

back to real estate agents so they

19

can use it to build their businesses.

20

Lovely.

21

And Rob, what's your role at the business?

22

I'm the chief technology officer

and Chad's the real estate guy.

23

I'm the tech guy so he's

the prop and prop tech.

24

And I'm the tech.

25

Lovely.

26

You've got it all covered.

27

Brilliant.

28

Something I often chat

about on the show is.

29

How a large number of PropTech companies

have founders that are either from

30

the property industry or from tech

and how important it is to have both

31

of those covered because there's a

lot of unique moving parts on both

32

sides that need to be considered.

33

So it seems like you have

that well covered off.

34

What about the practicalities

of the product?

35

You've given me a high level idea of what

the outcomes are, but how does it work?

36

Yeah, so like I said, most home

buyers home sellers have no idea

37

that when they go on these sites,

these middlemen sites, like we

38

call them, they may look for homes.

39

They then want to be connected

with a real estate agent, and

40

then they go off of the platform.

41

And then when they buy or sell a home,

they don't know what occurs after.

42

So once they buy or sell a home,

their real estate agent is actually

43

paying a client referral fee of

30, 40, 50% of the total commission

44

back to those middlemen platforms.

45

So that's how they're

making all that money.

46

The sad part about this is that home

buyers and home sellers have no idea that

47

the agent they're being referred to is

paying this fee back to those middlemen.

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I've been in real estate for 18 years.

49

I've owned three real estate brokerages.

50

I've trained hundreds of real estate

agents personally, being involved in

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over a thousand plus contracts on my

side, and it always felt misleading.

52

It always felt a little bit sleazy

that these clients are being referred

53

to us, but they have no idea what's

going on that back end of things.

54

Number two, when I pay that

client referral fee to Redfin

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or Realtor or Zillow, and it

can be up to $10,000 or more.

56

So it's significant cash, right?

57

But they have, they don't

get a share in any of it.

58

It's their business that's being sold,

but they don't get any of that money.

59

And then finally, those additional costs

are serving to artificially increase

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the cost of buying and selling a home.

61

And of course, that's being passed

on to the home buyer or home sellers.

62

So what Swivel does is it

allows home buyers and home

63

sellers to come on our platform.

64

They're able to create what's

called a client profile.

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So in that client profile, they're gonna

declare what type of home they're looking

66

to purchase or what time their, what

type of home they're looking to sell.

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So for example, we're in the

Seattle area, our average home

68

price just hit a million dollars.

69

My guess would be it's probably

roughly what's going on in your guys'

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major cities, London, et cetera.

71

So a home buyer would come on and say,

Hey, I'm looking to purchase a home in

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the Seattle area between one and $1.2

73

million, three plus bedrooms, two plus

bathrooms, 2,500 or more square feet.

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Look and do that in like the next 30 days.

75

Once their client profile is

complete, it then goes active in

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our five day share experience.

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And during that five day share

experience, real estate agents who are

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members of Swivel will then be able

to declare how much of the commission

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they're willing to share with the

home buyer or home seller in order to

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secure them as a client moving forward.

81

At the end of the five day share

experience, the agent who has agreed

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to share the largest percentage

of the overall commission with the

83

home buyer, home seller then secures

that individual as their client.

84

They then will go off platform to

either buy or sell the home, and then

85

at the end of that process through

the closing table, the buyer seller

86

will get that agreed upon, share

commission from the real estate agent

87

back so they can use it for their down

payments, their closing costs, move in

88

expenses, whatever they want to use it.

89

For at the end of the day.

90

So we're taking those billions of dollars

that are normally go into Redfin, realtor,

91

and Zillow, and we're giving that back

to the actual players in the real estate

92

process so that they can benefit instead.

93

Great.

94

And what's your model for generating

revenue for your own business

95

then, if you are not using the same

model as these middlemen are using?

96

Exactly.

97

So we, first of all, for home

buyers and home sellers, it's

98

always gonna be completely free.

99

We want them to be able

to use our platform.

100

We want them to be able to benefit.

101

That's the whole idea behind this.

102

But as far as our revenue streams coming

in, our first revenue stream is a monthly

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membership fee for real estate agents.

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So real estate agents

will pay 1 99 a month.

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I wanted to make sure 'cause like I said,

I'm in the real estate industry, right?

106

So we have, I don't know how it is over

there, but over here we have about an 87%

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failure rate for real estate agents with.

108

Than five years, meaning that 87% of

them are gone and out of the business.

109

So we wanted to make sure that we

are putting as many things in their

110

favor as possible as this being a

business revenue stream for them too.

111

So anyways, we, it's 1 99 a month and they

get access to unlimited share experiences,

112

meaning they're able to log on, they're

able to see the areas that they cover.

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And then they're able to see how many

buyers or sellers are in those areas.

114

And then they're able to declare

how much of the commission they're

115

willing to share in order to secure

that individual as their client.

116

And the nice thing is that outside

of that monthly fee, they don't have

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to pay anything more until they're

successfully closed, meaning they

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already have that money in their

bank account in order to pay that

119

commission share with their client.

120

Nice.

121

So it's a flat fee.

122

Simple, affordable, monthly, and

if for whatever reason it doesn't

123

work out, they can just cancel it.

124

So they've got this ability to engage

with the platform, see if it works for

125

them, and not feel like they're being

taken advantage of by a bigger player.

126

That may take a large percentage.

127

Yeah, 100%.

128

'cause a lot of these platforms that we

work with, these middlemen, they will

129

lock agents into year long contracts.

130

So if there really happen is I'm gonna

have an agent in my office who's upset,

131

who's been paying this fee, and this

monthly fee that's really high, it can

132

be, 72, a hundred thousand dollars a

year that they may be paying for this.

133

And they don't have the

money to do that anymore.

134

So they're trying to figure out how to

get out of that year long contract so it

135

doesn't hit their credit so they're not

being coming after legally, et cetera.

136

So like I said, we wanted to

make sure it was affordable.

137

We wanted to make sure that agents

weren't locked into a long-term

138

contract, so that if for some reason

the process wasn't working for them,

139

then they could be able to leave.

140

Great.

141

That's really interesting.

142

So what have you learned on this

journey so far of establishing your

143

product and trying to grow what's

essentially a SaaS business in a

144

world of commission and handshakes?

145

Yeah the biggest thing with us

is it's really the education.

146

Most people will buy homes maybe one

to three times in their lifetime.

147

So this isn't a process that they're very

comfortable with or they know much about.

148

I can line up a hundred buyers or a

hundred sellers and say, Hey, do you know

149

that when you go to Redfin, realtor Zillow

and you ask to be, contacted by a real

150

estate agent, this is what happens behind

the scenes and their minds are blowing.

151

They have no idea that this money

is going back to the middlemen,

152

that they're not getting any of it.

153

So really our biggest challenge is

just educating the real estate the real

154

estate public about how things work

in our industry, and be able to say

155

this, Hey, you can go to a middleman,

like truly a Redfin realtor, Zillow,

156

find a home, look for properties,

get connected with a real estate

157

agent to help you buy or sell a home.

158

And at the end of the

day, you get nothing back.

159

Or you can go to swivel and you

can do those exact same things.

160

Find your dream home, get

exposure for your listing.

161

Find an agent to help you with

that process, and you can get up to

162

$10,000 or more back when you close.

163

Which one are you gonna do?

164

So our message is very simple, getting

that out there to, almost 400 million

165

people, of course, is a challenge and

a process that that we have tackled.

166

Yeah.

167

Great.

168

I'd say there, there's a learning

curve on the tech side of things too.

169

And I think the biggest thing that,

that we've learned in this process is

170

that we don't know what we don't know.

171

And so as you set off to build a game

changing platform you have certain

172

technologies in mind and you have

certain development stack in mind.

173

And then you find out through the process,

oh, we've gotta be able to integrate this

174

type of data feed so that we can have the

MLS, houses all shown on our site so that

175

the idea would be, why would somebody want

to go do a home search on a competitor

176

site and then come to finish the process?

177

No, we need to have a home search on ours.

178

So integrating that data stack meant we

had to change some things on our backend,

179

and then you find out that the database

that you're using isn't scalable quick

180

enough, so then you've gotta switch.

181

Integrate different types of technologies

and it, it is been a lot of fun figuring

182

out one challenge after the other.

183

I feel like a firefighter, I'm just

putting out one fire just in time for

184

the next one to come up and then we

have to learn how to put that one out.

185

I'd say Welcome to the world

of PropTech, but it seems that

186

you're already here with us.

187

Yes.

188

Yeah.

189

The good and the bad.

190

Yeah.

191

Yeah.

192

That's what I love talking about on

the show though, I think it's really

193

important to open up about our challenges.

194

We all have them, right?

195

And they're not unique to us

particularly in this space.

196

And I feel like sharing knowledge and

experiences across those challenges helps

197

everybody to overcome them and at the very

least, feel like they're not so alone.

198

Yeah.

199

As you guys are based in the United

States, I'd be very interested to

200

hear why it is that you are interested

in reaching out to the UK market.

201

I know previously we had a little bit of

a chat about the fact that there's a cost

202

of living crisis and we wanna see people.

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With more cash in hand, more empowered

to, to do things like have a deposit

204

so that they can purchase the house.

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Whereas a lot of the time the

cashflow issues prevent real

206

estate from moving around.

207

But even just on a really practical

level what was it that sort of

208

sparked your interest in doing

something that's so different to the

209

models that are already out there?

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Like you touched on, I think

the challenge of housing is.

211

Present worldwide.

212

And that challenge of it, it really

is the cash for entry, right?

213

So for example, even like I went on a

trip to Jamaica, during COVID on their

214

end of things with where we're at.

215

And the fact is there really

is no financing for housing.

216

They don't have that process in place for

us like we do here in the United States.

217

So every country has a different

way as far as how homes are built,

218

how homes are financed during

the building process, et cetera.

219

However that fundamental need to have

a house to be able to own your own

220

place, to have your shot at doing that.

221

My my dad was in the military,

so most military members, you're

222

going from base to base, and

you don't own your own property.

223

I remember when my mom, after 20 years,

we gotta own our first house basically.

224

And the, that ability and that

success that, that drove to be able

225

to say, okay, now we're gonna be here.

226

This is my place to make my own.

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I can get good furniture.

228

That's not gonna get broken

by moving constantly.

229

And all these things, these aspects that

come to it is really what drives me.

230

The, in the United States here and in

many areas of the country or of the world.

231

The average salary no longer

pays for the average house.

232

We have now reached that tipping

point in the last year or so.

233

So that means there really is a group

of haves and have nots, not even

234

just based upon, the income not based

upon different, racial disparities.

235

Whatever you want to throw out there.

236

It's really based upon whether

you own a house or not.

237

And that's really going to make

a difference as far as your

238

future, what you're able to

do for your family, et cetera.

239

So there is a passion behind

just not making just money.

240

Because when this first started, when

we talked about that growth when I

241

started, this has been in my mind

for the last 10, 15 years, and then

242

COVID hit and I said, Hey, we're just

gonna throw up a small little website.

243

And we're gonna throw a little bit of

money at Google and we're just gonna see

244

wherever the hell it goes with all of it.

245

And you talk about that journey and we

were about a year and a half into that

246

journey and the product that we had.

247

We said, Hey, this is not a great

representation of what we want to do.

248

We want to be able to do more.

249

We want to be able to provide

this opportunity to home

250

buyers and home sellers.

251

But in order to do that, to truly

take this shot and get the message

252

out there, we our product has to be

representative of what our vision is.

253

So we started all over again.

254

We had to sit there and say,

Hey, were we gonna quit?

255

Call it good.

256

The money that was invested

before is just lost and walk away.

257

Or we, we had this conversation for

a couple months, we did, and we're

258

like, okay, but if Rob's nodding

like, yep, I rebuilt everything.

259

Yeah, exactly.

260

So we had to sit there and look

at each other and say, Hey, are

261

we going to start this process?

262

And if we're gonna do it,

we have to go all out.

263

We have to, like Rob said, we have to

have a, a full property search, and

264

that's a massive uptaking in order to

be able to do here in the United States

265

so that there's over 600 plus local

MLSs where that information comes from.

266

So that's a massive challenge.

267

Just the data feed alone on that

can be 30 to $50,000 a month.

268

So that there's a lot there.

269

So we had to make that decision.

270

We had to say, Hey, are we going to

move forward with this vision and do

271

it properly so that we can be able to

benefit home buyers and home sellers

272

to be able to get them this money that

we truly believe that they deserve?

273

So that, that was our

deciding moment for us.

274

Okay, so let's have a quick

chat about other businesses

275

that might be in your position.

276

You're based in the States, much

bigger market than in the uk,

277

but the UK still has a great

market that you're interested in.

278

And you have a product that you

think has a real opportunity here.

279

What are your thoughts around what

your biggest challenges are going

280

to be in penetrating the UK market?

281

One of the biggest challenges for me

on the real estate agent in this side,

282

'cause I've owned brokerages I currently

own a real estate brokerage and I've

283

been doing this for a couple decades.

284

There, there's always nuances

right to every market.

285

Even within our markets, like

if I'm going down to California,

286

it's a different market, right?

287

Than it is in the Seattle

area versus the Midwest.

288

For us, there's always gonna be

these nuances of how real estate

289

agents have done business for years

and that's a thing too, right?

290

We are human beings and we like to get

entrenched in the way that we do things.

291

Yes.

292

So you are familiar with the conveyancing

issues in the uk then, by the sum of Yeah.

293

So there's gonna, there's gonna be a

whole new set of challenges, right?

294

For us Yes.

295

With all of that not only just the

adopting of our platform by the consumers.

296

Okay.

297

In, in, in England, in the

uk with all of it, but also.

298

Working through your guys' structure that

you guys currently have in order to adapt.

299

So there's going to be, there's

going to be some challenges with all

300

that, but there are challengers we're

willing to take on, but there are

301

also challenges that we're gonna make

sure that we partner with, hopefully

302

the appropriate people over there.

303

We're not gonna come

over there and say, Hey.

304

Listen, we know everything.

305

Do it our way, and we have it all

figured out and we're, you're American.

306

That's what you do.

307

I'm being cheeky.

308

Yeah of course.

309

That's exactly what we do.

310

However I had a great learning lesson

from when I was started my first real

311

estate brokerage and my mentor, he

said, Hey, one of the things you have

312

to learn is the things that you don't do

well and find people who do them well.

313

And I'm under no illusions

that I am a phenomenal, leader.

314

I'm under no illusions that I know

everything that's going on, and I

315

really do want to partner with people

who know more than me in the areas

316

that I don't know, because that not

only accelerates our growth, but also

317

brings our message to more people.

318

So I, I think it's one of the most

valuable lessons I've learned is.

319

To try to check the arrogance and

ego at the door and be open-minded

320

enough to bring on people who are

better than you at certain things.

321

I love that.

322

That's very wise.

323

Rob, what about on the product side?

324

Yeah, one nice thing about

technology is, math is a standardized

325

language across the board.

326

And if we say to one of your developers

in the uk, Hey, you've gotta use this

327

API to pull in this data, they're

gonna know how to connect that.

328

The big challenge for us is our

entire platform is built around.

329

All of our codes in the US as far

as compliance issues go, right?

330

And so how we store user data

and how we transport that, how we

331

encrypt it all of that stuff is

based on our federal regulations.

332

And so one of the challenges for me is

that as we look to expand into either

333

the UK market or to Australia, wherever

it might be even to the Asian markets,

334

is what are their compliance laws like?

335

And.

336

Would we have to fundamentally

change the platform completely?

337

And so we're asking questions like, are we

gonna have one platform with subdomains?

338

So you would go to UK Swivel, or

Swivel uk and it's the same platform.

339

Language is a little bit different,

but the functionality is identical.

340

Or do we have to basically rebuild

this thing for each one of these

341

markets that we want to go into?

342

'cause those present

different challenges as well.

343

Yeah, the localization aspect

is definitely a big one.

344

In compliance as well as just

in user experience, right?

345

People are gonna expect different

things, different wording and language

346

and functionality in different places.

347

I found it really interesting that you

were talking about the property search

348

functionality, and that's something that.

349

I would say a huge number of people

in the PropTech space in the UK at

350

least tend to keep at arm's length.

351

Not that there aren't people

who specialize in it, there

352

aren't then they're amazing.

353

But if you don't do it, you don't do it.

354

Yeah.

355

The level of detail and the the way in

which that data is stored has historically

356

been, how should we say this paper?

357

Oh fine.

358

Yeah.

359

Yeah.

360

There's some incredible PropTech

startups in the UK that are

361

addressing that issue and they're

doing amazing work and I'm lucky

362

enough to work with a couple of them.

363

But it's not.

364

An easy thing to overcome, I think even

when it comes to your user experience.

365

People in the states are gonna be

searching for a property based perhaps

366

on something like how many square feet.

367

People in the UK aren't gonna

be searching based on that.

368

They're gonna be searching

based on number of bedroom.

369

It's just a different approach to how

the data is structured and what it means

370

for the person on the other end of it.

371

And I think up until now,

the people who've led in that

372

area have been the portals.

373

So those, the big guys that.

374

Sort of the equivalent of what

you are taking on in the us.

375

So over here we've got zoo plan

and Right Move and on the market.

376

And these portals are where estate

agents run all of their listings

377

and much like a booking.com.

378

They have something of a

monopoly on search traffic.

379

For people who are looking to buy or

sell properties, I imagine you've come up

380

against similar issues over in the States.

381

How are you looking to address that?

382

'cause it feels like a bit of

a David and Goliath situation.

383

It definitely is, and the

problem is it's getting worse.

384

The, these companies are consolidating.

385

So for example, Redfin, even though

they've never made a dollar of actual

386

profit, they just got bought out by what's

called Rocket Homes Rocket Mortgage,

387

which is one of the big mortgage companies

here in the United States for $1.7

388

billion.

389

Okay.

390

That feels like a conflict of interest.

391

Oh, completely.

392

And then I'll keep going with all of it.

393

Mr.

394

Cooper, who is another huge

mortgage company, they also

395

just got bought out by Rocket.

396

So we're often just in the last couple

months, has bought one of the big real

397

estate platforms and they've also just

bought one of the big mortgage companies.

398

And then I'll keep going with all this.

399

So Keller Williams, one of the big real

estate brokerages just got bought out.

400

Okay.

401

Anywhere Real estate, which is a

conglomerate of about 10 different

402

real estate brands like Century

21, et cetera, is all one company.

403

At one point, and this was a little

while ago, but Zillow bought out Trulia.

404

They used to be separate companies.

405

When I started in the

business they bought 'em out.

406

So we have this consolidation that's

going on where it's becoming a bigger

407

challenge because you're getting

about five to 10 different companies

408

that, regardless of all the different

names that are out there, are really

409

controlling the flow of the information

that's out there and the money.

410

And the money.

411

Exactly.

412

100%.

413

So it's getting to be it's really getting

to be a worse problem as far as monopoly

414

wise with all this, because they've

determined that in order to maintain

415

their market share and grow their market

share, they need to assimilate their

416

competitors with all of this on this side.

417

Like I said, rocket's now gonna get

access to tons more real estate agents,

418

tons more home buyers and home sellers

that use Redfin as their platform.

419

Which then of course will

turn into more money for them.

420

All of these things, with all of it.

421

So I agree with you.

422

It definitely is a David versus

Goliath, and who controls that

423

information is going to win.

424

Now, we've been fortunate on our end

as far as information wise with a home.

425

Information comes from, there's individual

MLSs throughout the United States.

426

So for example, in Washington state where

Seattle's located, there's one MLS that's

427

assimilated all the other MLSs that

were here for 20 years and it's called

428

the Northwest Multiple Listing Service.

429

So they cover about 90% of our state.

430

Now we're able to access that information.

431

So even like Redfin Truly and

Zillow, they have to get their

432

information from the MLSs.

433

Okay.

434

Yeah, exactly.

435

So their property information agents

aren't directly entering it into

436

Redfin or truly, or Zillow or Swivel.

437

It's being pulled from the local MLSs.

438

So we are able to gather that

information without having to worry about

439

competing with Redfin and truly Zillow.

440

'cause we don't have to get

their information from them.

441

But like I said, that consolidation,

we're seeing it happen.

442

And we're seeing it really happen

worldwide where there is literally,

443

and when I say this, really there's

five or 10 companies that literally

444

in the United States control probably

90 to 95% of all their real estate

445

transactions from the mortgage side and

also from the real estate agent side.

446

So you're right, it's a challenge

that we're going after to break.

447

'cause we want to be able to give people

different options and opportunities in

448

order to get into the housing market.

449

Absolutely.

450

I would say on the data side too,

Rebecca, you mentioned that it's a

451

David and Goliath type story, and what

we found is strategic partnerships

452

with other Davids to take down the

Goliath together is what has helped us.

453

When it comes to the MLS data.

454

We originally sourced that data from

a large conglomerate that resells

455

the data and allows us to syndicate

it, but it required us to have.

456

Massive server power just to store

and push all that information.

457

'cause we weren't allowed to pull

it locally because they were worried

458

about their bandwidth, obviously.

459

And so rather than increase their

bandwidth to help us out, they charge

460

us an exorbitant amount of money so that

we could pull their data twice a day.

461

And we had to stay on top

of all those listings.

462

And that was a huge undertaking.

463

We had to bring on an additional staff

person just to manage that server.

464

And lucky for us, our CEO had

the foresight to write into

465

that contract in 90 day out.

466

And we were going to these conventions

and stuff, these real estate

467

shows, and we met another David.

468

And they said to us, Hey, we should be

able to partner with you guys and get you

469

that data a lot faster and a lot cheaper.

470

And so basically we were on a clock,

can we get this switched over into

471

new architecture and pull this new

data in and have it integrated?

472

'cause the website was already running.

473

Without slowing down the website and

having to take down the search feature.

474

And we were able to do that.

475

And so as we look to expand into

global markets one of the things that

476

I've learned along the way is when it

comes to localization, nobody's gonna

477

know your local market and technology

needs then a local tech person.

478

So our goal would be to partner with

another David in your area that knows.

479

How to integrate the data, where to get

the data has relationships in those areas.

480

And that also then creates jobs

globally as we expand into different

481

markets, rather than just have

everything based here in the us.

482

Lovely.

483

That's fantastic.

484

So I think the key things that

I'm taking away from this chat

485

are be humble and teachable.

486

Don't get too big of a head.

487

Leave your ego at the door

and be willing to learn.

488

If you wanna take on Goliath.

489

Find other Davids and retain a sense

of lightness and a sense of humor about

490

the fact that sometimes everything

is just gonna turn on its head.

491

You're gonna have to start all over again.

492

Yeah.

493

And that's okay.

494

Have a laugh about it and crack on it

is and I'll say this, you know what

495

Rob said about finding other David's, I

think this is the first time he's put it

496

that way, but he's so completely right.

497

There are a ton of David's out.

498

There are trying to break

in and change things.

499

And a lot of 'em, to be

honest with you, are crap.

500

The it's a fly by night.

501

It's a an idea and that's all it is.

502

The time and effort and

investment hasn't went into it.

503

However, there are a few out

there that are really well.

504

Thought out and they very well

ha have not gained traction up

505

until that point, simply 'cause

they don't have the resources yet.

506

They haven't been able to get that

fortunate break in order to be able

507

to get the finances to move forward.

508

But those companies are being well ran.

509

They're being leanly ran.

510

By, a small group of people, but they

have a very good idea and we were

511

able to partner with one of those,

which solved our problem for the data.

512

And they were very, happy to partner

with us because it allowed them to be

513

able to prove concept, allowed them

to be able to partner with someone on

514

the retail side versus the data side.

515

Yeah, Rob's very corrected.

516

Those Davids are out there, but you

just have to find the right ones

517

to partner with to help you out.

518

Did you guys used to watch Transformers?

519

You know how each

520

Yes.

521

Or like power ranges

actually is a better analogy.

522

The power range.

523

Voltron, all of them.

524

They had their individual vehicle

and there'd be a great big monster

525

or something at the end of the

episode, and all the individual

526

things would be going pew.

527

And they couldn't take it down.

528

But then they would all come

together and join into one great big

529

robot that would defeat the evil.

530

Lizard eating the city.

531

And I feel like that's the perfect

analogy for what you guys No fun

532

if we're wan, can I be the Black Lion?

533

Yeah.

534

That's very cool.

535

I'll let you two do whatever

you need to with this analogy.

536

All the prescribed nerds here.

537

Yeah.

538

Yeah.

539

Oh, brilliant.

540

Don't forget Thunderbirds in

the us Thunderbirds was big too.

541

Oh yeah.

542

Yeah.

543

We love that bit.

544

Very popular.

545

Oh, brilliant.

546

Is there anything else that you guys

wanted to chat about or cover off today

547

before we say goodbye or see you later?

548

I think we're good.

549

We, we just appreciate the opportunity

to be able to get our company out there

550

and get the information out there.

551

We appreciate the ability to be able

to go into other markets as we expand.

552

It's a very important

aspect of our overall.

553

Like I told you, our overall journey

of just not benefiting, home buyers

554

and home sellers here, but benefiting

home buyers and home sellers throughout

555

the world as much as possible.

556

Put as many things in their favor

to what's, is a very expensive

557

process with all of this.

558

So we appreciate you, we

appreciate the opportunity to

559

be able to spread our message.

560

And for those of you that are out

there, I want to take a look at

561

our website, it's at swivel.com

562

and that's SWVV l.com

563

on the US side of things.

564

And look for us to be expanding to your

market, hopefully in the near future.

565

Lovely.

566

Thank you so much for

being on the show, guys.

567

Really appreciate your time.

568

It's been a pleasure.

569

Oh, thank you.

570

You've been great.

571

Thanks a lot.

572

Thank you very much.

573

Bye now.

574

Bye-bye.