Welcome to a deeply heartfelt episode of Late Boomers. We’re Merry Elkins and Cathy Worthington, and today we gather to honor and remember the legendary Dolly Parton. For our 300th episode, we're sitting down for a very personal conversation, reflecting on the precious moments and memories that connected us to Dolly—through Cathy’s late husband, Ken Kragen, who managed Kenny Rogers and helped shape some of the most iconic moments in country music.

In this special tribute, we share never-before-told stories about Dolly’s kindness, humor, and dazzling presence. We bring you inside the glitz of the CMA Awards, the warmth of the recording studio, and the laughter backstage. You’ll hear what made Dolly so extraordinary not just as a superstar, but as a friend, a mentor, and a beloved family member to so many.

Key Takeaways

• Dolly’s True Nature: We recount how Dolly was every bit as genuine, loving, and quick-witted behind the scenes as she appeared in public. Her humor—always sparkling, sometimes cheeky—and her generosity of spirit touched everyone she met (07:14, 16:11).
• Memorable Duets and Milestones: Relive the creation of “Islands in the Stream” and other chart-topping collaborations with Kenny Rogers, and go inside their legendary stage chemistry (03:03, 10:28).
• Backstage Adventures: From singing in the backup choir for Kenny & Dolly’s Christmas special to glamorous nights in sequins at the awards shows, Cathy Worthington shares what it was like to be part of these musical milestones (05:15, 19:04).
• A Star’s Wit, Warmth, and Work Ethic: Dolly’s humor lit up every room—whether in press conferences in Perth or when gently teasing friends. She never stopped working, creating, or caring for those around her (16:40, 28:44).
• Dolly’s Legacy of Kindness: Above all, Dolly’s love for her family, her generosity, and her belief in giving someone your smile if they don’t have one shines as her enduring legacy (24:35).
• Making Dreams Reality: Learn how Dolly’s determination and savvy business sense overcame every obstacle—from bringing Dollywood alive to developing a Broadway show based on her life (25:00, 27:02).

Thank you for joining us as we celebrate and remember Dolly Parton’s incredible life, music, and spirit. If Dolly touched your life, too, please subscribe to Late Boomers on your favorite podcast platform or our YouTube channel, and share this episode with fellow Dolly fans.

We would love to hear your favorite Dolly memory or song—leave us a comment or review, and help keep her legacy alive.

Remember, as Dolly said and we believe, if you see someone without a smile, give them yours. It’s never too late to spread kindness and live your dreams, just as Dolly did, right up to the very end.

Thank you for listening, and for helping us honor an unforgettable legend—Dolly Parton.

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What if one of the biggest stars in the world wasn't just somebody you watched on television, but someone you actually knew? Someone you traveled with, someone you shared unforgettable moments with, someone who came into your life because your husband managed one of the biggest stars in the world— country stars in the world. And today Cathy Worthington is taking us behind the scenes of her connection to Dolly Parton and to Kenny Rogers, the man her husband Ken Kragan managed. And one of those stories takes us back to 1987 to the America's Cup in Perth, Australia.

And believe me, Merry, there's some stories I haven't told before too.

Well, welcome to Late Boomers. I'm Merry Elkins.

And I'm Cathy Worthington.

And today we're doing something a little bit different. I'm going to interview Cathy about a very personal chapter in her life, her relationship with Dolly Parton and her years around Kenny Rogers through her late husband, legendary manager Ken Kragan.

And we're going to talk about the music and the people and the memories and what it was really like to be behind the scenes with 2 extraordinary stars. Hope I don't start crying.

You already are.

I know, I'm tearing up.

Well, Cathy, take us back. This is a— take us back. How did Dolly Parton first enter your life through Ken and Kenny Rogers?

Well, she and Kenny started doing duets a long time ago, and in 1981, my husband became the president of the Country Music Association. And he was later the president of the Academy of Country Music Association also. And that exposure meant that we were always at the Country Music Awards, the CMA Awards they're called, in Nashville. We were always there. And because of that, I met the other stars and Kenny started getting— Kenny, he was already managing Kenny Rogers. So Kenny Rogers was already a very big star in 1981 when Ken became the president. Probably why they picked him, because he was managing one of the biggest country stars. And Dolly was so sweet and kind, and everybody says this about her now, and everybody's hearing about it in the media now that, now that she's passed.

Yeah.

But I swear to God, I don't think the woman has an enemy on the planet because Everyone that met her loved her, loved her, loved her. And it was just so much fun being backstage. And many of the years that we would go to the CMAs, she would win the major awards. Some of the years she would host it. I think I wrote down when she hosted, but now I don't see it. But 1983 at the ACMs, she— or yeah, 1983, they won Islands in the Stream. So this was their big first duet. It was Barry Gibb put that song together.

I don't remember the actual gist of how it came to be to Kenny Rogers, and he wanted Dolly to do it with him. And I remember he sent Ken— he was somewhere where they knew Dolly was in the building, and he sent Ken, just go ask Dolly to come up here. and sing it.

No kidding.

And Ken's like, I don't know if we can do that. But they did, and she did. And today, just today, I was talking to my friend Fred Rapoport, who produced specials for CBS. All the specials, Ken produced them. He was the network exec for CBS specials. And he said to me today, oh, we tried to get stuff off the ground, and Dolly Parton's attorneys would never call back. And then the guy would figure out where is Dolly going to be through a friend. Like Melissa Etheridge one time said to Fred's friend, just show up at our rehearsal, because she was doing a project with Dolly.

And he said he came to meet Dolly at their rehearsal and said, you know, Dolly, I'm trying to bring 9 to 5 to Broadway, and your people never called me back, and it's not going to happen. And And Dolly said, of course we can do that. Let's make it happen. And she did, and they did. And Fred was talking about, you wanted something done, you did it in the most simple way. You went directly to Dolly, you said, can you do this with us? One of my favorite things that Dolly ever did was she wrote a fabulous album with Kenny. It was called Christmas, it was a Christmas album. Christmas in Nashville.

Forget what the album's called. And she and Kenny had a duet album, a Christmas album. So of course my husband, the genius manager, says, well, they need a special featuring all the songs that Dolly wrote. Dolly wrote all of them.

Hmm.

And it's a fabulous Christmas album. I used to play it constantly. And there were some hits that came out of it too. And so here it was, like 1984, I think, we did this Christmas special, and I got to be in it by a fluke, not because of Ken. Ken didn't stick me in the show. It was that they needed a backup choir in this little church they were using, and the guy that put the backup choir together was H.P. Barnum.

Wow.

And he had been my— had been my manager from my singing group that I had had before that, several years before that. And so he called me up and said, Cathy, you should be in this choir. I know your husband's canon. I know you'll probably be there anyway. And I said, I will be there anyway, because I went to the whole shoot and saw everything. It was shot just outside of LA in a little tiny town, a little rustic all-preserved town where there's no fast food or anything. I can't remember the town, and it had this cute little church, and there I was in this choir. It was an established choir, they already all knew each other, that he brought them in and threw me into the mix, but we learned the new— it was all the new songs that Dolly had written, and we had backup stuff to sing, and it was so much fun.

And Dolly is the funniest, Funniest person, and Ken adored working with her. And Fred Rapoport told me the other day, Dolly said, you know, I don't really like the way this guy is directing this. He needs to be more straightforward. He doesn't seem prepared. Dolly would just go right to the heart of the matter and make sure people were on their A-game.

And I just wanted to make sure— well, I wanted to ask a question. About what she was like behind the scenes, when the cameras weren't on, and you're already starting to explain it. So go on.

Yeah. Oh yeah, Ken had a great story. I think it was on the set at that— somewhere on the set at that location, I think it was. She says, Ken Cragin, I can't get this dress hooked in the back, or something. She needed a hook closed in the back. So he goes to help her with the dress or the top she was wearing, and she goes, Ken Cragin, get those hands around front where they could do some good. You know, she was so known for being such a big busted woman and so beautiful and funny, but she would always poke fun at herself, at the situation, tease people. I mean, he turned beet red because he was so embarrassed when she said that.

It's like Dolly Parton telling me to put my hands around front on her chest and it's like, I would never, you know.

She was known, wasn't she, for just being just on the borderline of being risqué.

Hysterical. Today I saw a little clip of her. This is off the subject, but it was a funny clip with her sister where they were being interviewed and someone said to the both of them, we'd both— we'd like to know both of your opinions. What's an item that every woman should have in her closet? And her sister is gorgeous. One of her sisters, she has a lot, said that— her sister answered, a little black dress. And Dolly looked right in the camera and said, a couple of skeletons. And I mean, I just— that is so Dolly Parton because she had a—

So smart, so quick.

And so we had a blast doing that Christmas special. The album came out, the Christmas— we had to shoot it in the summer, and we were wearing these choir robes, and it was like 100 degrees at least in the church, 'cause it was an old church, no air conditioning, and we were just dripping sweat. So they had to keep pausing to like sponge us down or blot us off, because it's supposed to be Christmas time. We're not supposed to be dripping sweat in the shot. You know, the lights were hot lights, And it was, but a lot of fun and such an honor to get to be in a show with Dolly. You know, I was thinking about that the other day. I thought, oh, I really got to do that.

So, um, you're so lucky.

Yeah. And so then Along for the Ride, where Ken is managing Kenny, and he gets Dolly and Kenny to do this duet that Barry Gibb has for him that is Islands in the Stream.

Oh, Barry Gibb. Who wrote it? Was it Barry Gibb?

Barry Gibb, yeah, wrote it and arranged it and produced it.

Great song.

Yeah, and so he, he then— Ken said, well, then we got to take this on the tour. Oh, and by the way, they did it. Kenny and Dolly did a tour also for the Christmas album too. They did a Christmas tour because Kenny Rogers did a Christmas tour every single year in those days. He would have a special Christmas tour with Christmas music and different acts and a whole different thing for about a month leading up to Christmas. And so this Islands in the Stream thing sparked another tour, and they went out on the road together. And anybody should look up the old clips of Kenny and Dolly on stage together because they have so much chemistry.

I was about to ask that.

Oh yeah, they are so warm with each other. I don't think they ever fooled around. Kenny was married, she was married. I never got any inkling of that, but if you just watched them on stage, you'd swear like, oh, they got a thing going, because it always seemed— but they were also both very fine actors, very fine entertainers. Both of them individually on different years won Entertainer of the Year on the CMA Awards. Kenny won it, Dolly won it. She won Female Artist, he won Male Artist. Like over and over they won all those awards.

And they did it for What's in the Stream, didn't they?

Uh-huh, uh-huh. It won the Single Record of the Year. Well, it won for ACM. I don't know if it won for CMA too. I don't have that info in front of me. But that was— it was so much fun seeing them on stage together at these concert dates. Because Ken didn't go to all the concert dates, but when he went to one of their concerts, I always went. So I just had a blast.

I was always there backstage, talked to them. They were both the most humble, down-to-earth people because Kenny had a similar upbringing to Dolly. He was one of 7 or 8 children and raised in poverty in Texas, just like she was raised in poverty. in Tennessee, one of 12 children. So they had common ground, Southerners, like love of country music and all that. They were kind of magical together. So yeah, I should, I should skip forward and tell you about our trip to Perth, Australia.

I was just going to ask you about that. And it was again, like we mentioned before, during the America's Cup 1987. So talk about what you remember about that trip.

Well, I remember that it was a blast to be there during the America's Cup because Ken would have wanted to go when Kenny was performing in Australia either way. So we had gone before that to Sydney, but Perth was a very special trip. It's all the way across the continent. It's like from Sydney to Perth is like New York to LA. And Perth is a tiny place. It's not anything like LA, and it's not anything like Sydney, Australia, or Melbourne, Australia. But Perth was amazing. And it was 1987, as we said, we were all there.

And we were honored that they were— because they were performing at this huge, huge arena venue, because they always sold out these great big venues, and they were very known down under. They were very popular. So we went out, we were invited to go on the practice boat the day before Perth, before the America's Cup race started.

Right.

Because they didn't put anybody onto the main boat that's running the race, but there's a boat that races that boat every single day in getting ready for the race, and that's how they train. So they have an equal boat that is the other boat owned by the US, or I don't know how they do the ownership, but both boats have to be everywhere the races are so that they can practice together, race against, and clock it, and see what needs to be changed.

Like horses.

Yeah, well, horses have to run multiple races before the big race, and this was kind of like this. So I had to laugh because we're going out on the boat and they said to Dolly, don't wear your high heels because you're on a boat and you need to have flat shoes to be safer on the deck of the boat. And she says, oh, I cannot possibly ever not wear my high heels because The whole time she always walked in high heels, her calf muscle had shortened because her foot was always in that elevated position. She never went anywhere not in high heels. So she really couldn't—

Like that scene in Barbie with the feet.

Uh-huh, exactly like Barbie. So she had to come on the boat in high heels because she couldn't wear flats. So I guess she had to be extra careful and not fall down, and they took care of her and whatever, but She said, no, I don't wear flats. I never wear tennis shoes. I don't have any. So it's like, and of course we all know what an amazing wardrobe she had.

Oh.

She was always dressed to the nines and with the wigs and the gorgeous makeup. Because in the early '80s like that, or this would have been late '80s that we were in Perth, she was so Completely glamorous, like naturally glamorous. She was beautiful at the end of her life too, but with a lot more cosmetic procedures and stuff like that. But she was just this most beautiful girl. Well, if you see the old things of her, like from the real early days, she was stunning.

Yeah, she was so pretty.

Just stunning, you know.

But I, I love that she said she modeled her, her personality or persona after the town trollop where she was. And she always—

Oh, really?

Yes, she said that. And also, she— her famous statement was, it takes a lot of money to, to look so cheap.

I know, I love that quote. I did hear her say that more than once. Oh, and I have another Perth story. So of course they're down there in Perth and they've got a big arena. I don't know if it was already sold out or what, but they were doing a lot of press. They were interviewing with the press. And so Kenny had interviews And Kenny was the headliner, so Ken wanted to make sure the press was really featuring Kenny Rogers. But every single time, Dolly stole the show.

She just couldn't help herself. She was funny and gorgeous and sexy, and the press couldn't get enough of her. So they came to the conference and they said, so Dolly, what do you think of the America's Cup? And she said, I am America's Cups, and gestured like this to her boobs. And it's like it brought down the whole press conference, and that was the headline in the paper. Nothing to do with Kenny Rogers. A big picture of, of Dolly saying, I am America's Cups.

Oh, that's great. There must have been a zillion— there must have been a zillion moments where you thought, I can't believe I'm living like this, that this is my life. Because what a magical person to bring into your life.

I know, right? It really, really was. It was really dear and sweet. And my husband and I loved her so much. And he managed Kenny Rogers for, I think, 24 years or maybe more than that.

Long time.

25 years, 27 years. I forgot what the actual number of years was, but he built that whole career career for Kenny. And, you know, the duets came along because Kenny did a lot of duets before Dolly. He did duets with Dottie West, and Dottie West was also managed by Ken. Now, Ken never managed Dolly Parton. I wanted to ask you that. Sandy Gallin managed Dolly Parton. She was very proud of her relationship with Sandy Gallin.

He was a great manager and all that. But Ken managed Dottie West too. So when Dottie West and Kenny would do the duets, they had 2 duet albums together, and those were fantastic. For people that go back that far, there was a great song called Every Time Two Fools Collide, which was a huge number one hit. And so that was a great country duet song that anyone that knew country in the '80s knew that song. But it was just a really fun time for me to be around that. And the treat was to get to go to the ACM Awards in LA and the CMA Awards in Nashville every year, every year like clockwork.

And I would make all— And you must have worn sequins like Dolly often wore.

Yeah, there was a dress place in Los Angeles around the corner from my husband's office building on Sherbourne and Sunset, and it was called Atina. And the gal that owned it did all original designs, and she would have these beautiful, you know, 2 or 3 of a kind. But not, not anymore because she was making them for the store. And so the funny thing with a story, not with Dolly, but I bought a dress from her to wear to the CMA Awards in Nashville. Mind you, I bought it in LA. And I get to Nashville and I'm backstage and Janie Frickie, who was a huge country star at the time and was nominated that night and was performing on the CMA Awards that night, was wearing my same dress. And I said, wait, wait, I got this from Atina in Los Angeles. She said, yeah, I go there every time I go to LA.

I shop there. And I'm like, this is too funny.

That's funny.

She was such a good sport. And I said, are you performing in that dress? And she said, yes, I am. I'm wearing this the whole evening. I didn't bring a change of clothes. And, and afterwards we all took a picture and she and I are in the exact same dress. And somewhere, somewhere the press people gave me that picture. It was great. She was so gracious because a lot of celebrities, some of these country people are so down to earth, so dear.

And those years stand out in my mind as some of the most special in my life.

Oh, I can imagine. What did Ken's relationship with Kenny tell you about what it takes to manage a superstar?

Oh, very important. Yeah. His key thing, Ken's key thing with managing anyone, all of his superstars, because he managed a lot of other country stars, Travis Tritt, Trisha Yearwood. He built Trisha Yearwood's solo career and put her on tour with Garth and all of that. That's how that happened. But the key thing he would say in management is to be honest with the client, like tell them the truth. He would teach a class at UCLA. He taught many classes to music majors who wanted to go into music business, or maybe they're being music artists, but maybe they're looking at the whole business as a whole.

And he had a book out called Life Is a Contact Sport that my husband wrote that people quote it to me all the time because he made such an impact. But what he— key thing he said was be honest. He said honesty is your best— what do you call it? Your best—

They say policy, but you know.

No, not policy. It's like he had a catchier, cuter thing, and it escapes me right now. But he said, I don't want to get caught telling a lie to my client because they're not going to trust me on anything else I do. If Kenny calls me up and tells me to do something and call somebody and I forget to do it, and at the end of the day he says, what did the guy say? I don't say, oh, I left word for him and he hasn't called me back. I say, oh, I'm so sorry, I forgot. but I will do it right now, or right tomorrow, or whatever is the next available. And he said, it's so much better to get caught telling the truth, not get caught telling a lie.

Exactly.

Because if you lie, it just snowballs, and you don't know where it's going. And so he found that, because later he managed Lionel Richie, and Kenny Rogers brought Ken Lionel Richie because Kenny was friends with the Commodores, And Lionel gave Kenny his big song, Lady. And Kenny was the first to record Lady and had the number one hit with it. And so Lionel and Kenny were friends because of that. And Kenny said, well, since you're leaving the Commodores— the Commodores are either breaking up at that point, or Lionel was going on his own— he said, that's what Ken did for me. Ken took me solo from Kenny Rogers' The First Edition.

That's right.

Ken had them too. He had that group. And so he took him solo. And so Lionel came to Ken, and that was a real good piece of history. Another whole podcast. Different one. Different one.

Let's go back to Dolly. So what do you think it was like to have her as a friend?

I think she was probably I can't call her a close friend because I didn't really get to that status with her. She definitely knew my name, she definitely saw me a million times, and she was the nicest person ever. So I can only manage— imagine that to be her close friend must have been the most special thing going. I know that her closest friends were her family, because her nieces, Her nephews, her sisters, and her brother, I guess her brothers. I'm not quite sure what the dynamic is. All she would ever say was, I love my family so much. I'm so close to my family. And she did everything for so many people, and she cared so much for everybody.

And she would always say, if you see someone without a smile, give them yours.

Oh, I love that. What a wonderful thing to say. I think I'll take that on myself. So, is there— maybe that's one thing that, that people don't know about Dolly. I don't think anyone's ever said that. Can you think of anything else people might not know about Dolly that you know?

Uh, I'm trying to think of another, if I have another story where she embarrassed people. Oh, I know, I know a friend of mine was instrumental in developing Dollywood for Dolly because Dolly pitched the idea of Dollywood to multiple people, multiple people, and they said, oh, that's so crazy, you don't want to own a theme park, they'll never let you put it in that holler where you grew up because it'll bring too much tourism and noise and Commotion and pollution and whatever they said. And she was hearing, no, you can't. No, you can't. No, you can't. And she brought it to a friend of mine and he said, I will happily run with that idea with you and take it to the powers that be and we will get it financed and you can have your theme park. And he went with her to the meeting. of the town council in the little holler where she grew up.

There was a town council, like a, you know, yeah, town council, I guess you call it. And he said it was so funny to sit at that meeting with Dolly because she had grown up with all those people. She knew their secrets. She'd been in cars with some of them. She knew, you know, all the people they were married to, if they were married. And He said she just ran that meeting and there was no way they could have said no because periodically she would say something like, oh, Harvey, your wife would not like that. Or, hey, Fred, remember that time we were in your car in the backseat? She would embarrass people. She would embarrass people because she was such a good businesswoman.

I was about to say that.

She knew how to get around anybody. And if she needed to use her time that way, she was so smart with like, I know how this is gonna happen. And now I'm so disappointed she isn't gonna make it to see her Broadway show of her life because she's written all the songs for that. I can't wait. You're coming to New York with me, Merry. We're gonna go see it. It opens in January.

Oh, perfect.

But the previews are in December and early January. There's previews. I think I want to go— I want to go to the previews.

Oh, that sounds great. That sounds like fun. I'd love to do it. That's a date. So anyway, um, I know there's more you'd love to talk about, but, um, we want to give our audience, um, the food that you provided and the food for thought you've provided for them.

The food I provided? Well, I would love to hand you all some food right now. Here's my platter. Yeah, Dolly was a great cook too. Oh, oh yeah, so was Dottie West. We used to go over to Dottie West's house. But yeah, we can wind this up. Let's wind it up, Merry.

Yeah, well, we'll have to talk on another podcast about Dolly's cooking. So thank you, and to our audience of listeners and viewers of Late Boomers Podcast, we hope you enjoyed Cathy's special tribute to Dolly Parton. And I think we all share her love for Dolly, but Cathy knows even more about her than the rest of us do. So hopefully you know more. And for now, thank you for listening to Late Boomers. Please subscribe to our podcast and to our—

what are we now?

YouTube channel.

YouTube channel.

Thank you. And what is it, Cathy, we always say?

It's never too late to read.

Absolutely. Certainly Dolly did that in every segment of her life. Dolly lived like that till—

yeah, till the minute she died. She was working, new Broadway show, everything new, new songs, always brilliant. I love her so much. Thank you, Merry, for mentioning this and doing it.

Thank you. Thank you.