In this episode of Podjunction we explore the art of crafting authentic and engaging podcast content. Our guest, Adam Pearce, shares his invaluable insights on creating genuine dialogues and extracting compelling stories from guests. This episode is a treasure trove for podcasters seeking to elevate their content and connect more deeply with their audience.

In this episode, you'll discover:

• The vital role of a curious mind in podcasting and how it can unveil deeper layers of guest stories.
• Strategies for extracting genuine and compelling narratives from podcast guests.
• The importance of the host's authenticity in shaping the podcast's narrative and creating engaging content.
• Tactics to handle interviews that don't align with the intended authenticity, including when to steer the conversation back or make tough calls.
• Adam Pearce's journey and experiences in the world of podcasting, offering a behind-the-scenes look at professional podcast production.

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For complete show notes, transcript, link to our guest and to join Podjunction Cohort, check out our website: www.podjunction.com.

Welcome to Podjunction, where business meets podcasting.

Whether you're on a morning jog, driving to work, whipping up a meal, or just

taking a moment for yourself, our weekly bite sized episodes promise fresh

insights from successful podcasters who have cracked the code of using

podcasts to grow their business.

So whether you're a podcasting newbie or seasoned podcaster,

grab your notebooks and get ready.

Welcome to Podjunction.

My name is Matt Edmundson, beside me is the beautiful and, let's just

say you're a podcast specialist.

I

do know how to use a microphone.

Podcasting 101.

We were just, before we hit the record button, we were

doing this thing where we were like, we do the sound checks, right?

So we do a simple sound check on the microphone.

You can't see it on the screen, but, and if you're listening to the

audio, you definitely can't see it.

But next to me is a very nice sound desk.

And so we were doing like the sound check, weren't we?

And I'm thinking this is not sounding right and then I looked over at Sadaf

and her microphone was like, what, six foot away from where it should be?

Yeah, pretty much.

So I said to Sadaf, I said, I was like, what's the first rule of podcasting?

And you were like, I don't know, what is the first, like it was a joke.

I was waiting for the punchline.

And then it was like, oh, yes, I've got to use

my, I'm just taking my chair here.

I've got to use a microphone.

So yes, we are professionals, ladies and gentlemen.

Warm welcome to you.

Warm welcome to the show.

Yeah, it's great to be here.

It is great to be here.

It is, absolutely.

For those of you who don't know, if this isn't, if you're new to us, because

we're still quite a new podcast, but if you're new to us, warm welcome to you.

We're a podcasting about podcasting.

Yeah.

It's full business, actually, it's probably should just clarify.

So if you use podcasting to help grow your business, you're in the right

place because we chat about that.

And today we have

Adam Pearce.

We had him last week as well.

So he's back again.

And he is host of Shopify Across The Pond and he's CEO of Blend Commerce.

CEO.

CEO.

Yeah, the dude in charge Blend Commerce.

I've known Adam for a little while actually.

And so he, his podcast Shopify Across The Pond is is all about Shopify,

which is an e-commerce platform.

, which is, the other part of what we do.

And Adam's business is all about attracting agency, isn't it?

That's or attracting businesses to his agency.

To his agency.

Yeah.

Yeah.

E-Commerce guys to his agency to come use his services.

And so he uses podcasts for that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he's talking about authentic stories.

So how do we, as podcast hosts, extract real authentic stories from

our guests to make a great podcast?

Wow, that's going to be fun.

Yeah.

I know it's fun because I did the interview.

But before we do that, before we do that,

I have a question, Matt.

It's still not working?

No, there we go.

There you

go.

Talk into the microphone.

I think I got

stuck in it.

All right.

All right.

Matt, I wondered if you had an all expenses paid trip to anywhere in the

world that you would want to go to, the only catch was you had to do a

podcast recording while you were there.

Where would that

be?

I don't think it would change it.

I think the one place that I've visited, there's a lot of places that I've been

to that I've been privileged to go to.

I have flown around the world.

I've been to many places, but there are definite places on my

list that I have not been to.

And one of the places I want to go to it's a real tension for me because I

want to go to the Maldives before they disappear, but they disappear because

people keep going to the Maldives, right?

It's a catch 22.

So the it just is what it is.

But I'd love to go just hang out in the Maldives two weeks to see what it's like.

Friends who have been say it's just the most amazing place, but to be

fair, anywhere that's not England on a cold, dreary day would be good.

And yeah, as long as I don't have to take the podcast recording equipment, if it's

all there set up for me, that's fine.

It's all good.

Clock's ticking.

Book it.

I am flying out to Dallas to do a podcast,

a live podcast event there.

There's a eCommerce event called Sub Summit.

I was at there last year and love Sub Summit.

It's great if you're into the eCommerce business or subscription

business, you should definitely go.

Quick plug.

But what happens is I actually record a live eCommerce podcast whilst I'm there.

And so they set all the podcast equipment up, which is a beautiful thing.

You just walk up.

I just rock up and I just literally start talking to people about

eCommerce, which is a beautiful thing.

It's one of my favorite topics, if you know me.

And so yeah, I am actually flying out somewhere to do some podcast recordings.

Dallas at the moment for 2024 is the most exotic place.

So if you would like me to do a live podcast recording somewhere

more exotic than Dallas, which is not difficult, is it really?

Dallas is okay.

It's just not exotic.

It'll be hot though.

You'll get that.

It'll be hot.

And I'll get to hang out with some friends, which is always nice.

So yeah.

Yeah.

Cool.

All right.

Does that answer your question?

Where would you go?

Somewhere hot.

Somewhere hot with lots and lots of space.

Somewhere hot with lots and lots of space.

England's a bit cold and like Small.

Need more space.

Need more space, okay.

Somewhere hot with lots of space.

Yes.

So not Wales.

No.

India?

No.

My background is Pakistani, you know that, right?

Yeah,

that's what I'm saying, India, just to wind you up.

It's a bit like asking me if I want to go to Manchester when I live in Liverpool.

Yeah, no, I don't really.

Africa?

No.

Asia?

I think I would I would go to.

Italy, I have not been to Italy, but it's not very big, is it?

Okay,

I think, so hang on, anywhere as long as it's

hot and there's lots of space, Africa, no, India, no, Asia, no.

Where?

Italy.

I just, I,

If we're, going somewhere, I want to go somewhere,

you understand what I have to work with ladies and gentlemen,

yeah, he loves it on a daily basis.

It's awesome.

Let's play this video.

We've got Adam chatting away.

We're going to play this clip.

Listen to it, take your notes, then Sadaf and I will be back

to check check to chat about it.

And to go through our takeaways.

So here is Adam.

It actually, the episode itself was pretty conversational.

And I think, what I've found is that's pretty much been, the general

ebb and flow for all of the kind of guests that we've had on the show.

Yeah.

It's interesting, obviously we live in a time where we all have a very curated.

Social media presence, I think, and we talk about personal branding and

all this kind of thing, and people pay consultants, but what I've always

found out about you, Matt, is that when you get someone on a podcast,

there's almost this, if you can get it to a point where it is a conversation.

I find I get a lot more out of them than you would do on what

they give, from a LinkedIn post or, TikTok video, whatever it might be.

Yeah, I agree.

And they're always the memorable ones, aren't they?

Both from their point of view and from your point of view.

As a podcast host, I've, I, it's lovely to hear when people come on your show

and they say to you, that was great.

You did a great job.

I felt really comfortable because I always say you'd probably do

the same, Adam, say to guests at the end, how was that for you?

How did you find that?

And I'm really intrigued to hear what they have to say.

Most of the people say it was great, it was fine.

Not many people say you were rubbish because that's not what they want to do.

They want to still be on your podcast.

But it's, there are some people who actually will just give you some

little nuggets when you ask them that question, which is always lovely to hear.

And you tend to find those that are conversational and intent

on delivering value would be the other thing make the best guess.

No, I

agree.

And look, I've had some absolute stinkers, I can't lie.

I've had a lot of, I wouldn't say a lot of, I've probably got five or six

whereby someone has come in essentially with the answers all prepped and it is

essentially a veiled sales conversation.

And what unfortunately I've had to do in this situation is basically stop

the recording and say, look, this isn't really going to work if we are basically,

exchanging verbatim between one another.

Yeah people know when that's being done and I think, also as a podcast host, you

have to protect that because ultimately if someone jumps into your podcast on

that episode, you know what it's like, Matt, they're probably not going to

give you the opportunity to show them that you can do something different.

So it's I think for, from both people as a guest.

I think you need to be mindful of that because podcasts.

Secondly, you're not going to actually convey the message you want to.

And then from the actual, podcaster themselves, they've got a podcast

reputation to uphold as well.

Yeah, that's very true.

Very true.

So what are some of the other things that you think make great guests that you found

in your three and a half year tenure?

I I think the thing for me is.

When you have someone that has almost gone against the grain of what people

are expecting what I mean by that is that, there are a lot of brilliant

entrepreneurs that have started businesses that are completely unrelated.

To the field that they then end up, end ended up in.

Yeah.

And yeah, there, there seems to be, sometimes there's a particular

trajectory that, people might follow.

Look they've gone to university, they've then gone to work for a big corporate.

They see an opportunity in the market.

They start up a, an e-commerce line.

They sell.

Okay, that, and I'm not knocking that, fair play to people, but it's when

you get people, that are saying, look actually, you know what I didn't go

to university, I had no interest in eCommerce, and then one day I'm walking

down the street, and basically I see this thing in front of me, and I'm like,

look, there's something that's got to be different to be done about that, and

I started developing this product, and it was in my shed and all this thing,

and it's just the one that I think, probably a lot of people know about, He's

probably someone like Ben Francis who started Gymshark, great for him, a young

lad delivering pizzas, buys a t shirt printing press, does it in his mum and

dad's garage and starts selling it online.

It's when it's a little bit different to maybe what people expect because I think

our responsibility as a podcast host is to present different avenues in the industry

that we podcast in and inspire people.

Having the same story about, going to work for a consultancy or accountancy

firm and then, blah, blah, blah, spotting the opportunity is fine,

but we don't want to keep hearing that same story again and again.

That's super true.

Because especially with podcasts, I've found that like with the

agencies that contact you and say, do you mind having this guest on?

It becomes very hard to differentiate between a bunch of the guests that

they merge and blend into this sort of beige vanilla flavoring.

You're like I've had one.

I don't really need any more in that sort of field or genre.

So you have to work hard to get it to stick out, I think.

But I'm curious, Adam, when you have interviewed people, Matt,

how do you get to the story?

What sort of, do you have a specific strategy?

Are you just naturally curious?

Do you have preset questions which you're intrigued about that person?

Do you do a lot of research?

I don't know.

How do you get to the story of the guests that you've got on?

Yeah, no, I think, the, my strategy usually is that when I'm

doing a podcast, I will have basically five set questions I've nailed down.

What I tend to find with that is that I almost look at these as like

chapters of the book, and then what I try to do then is basically off the

back of their responses, almost a mini subsection with each of those questions.

So I ask something that's quite open as a question, and then I

just try and keep drilling into layer down within that question.

Because I think by doing that, for example, If if I've got a guest on the

show who is, say, for example, from a reviews platform for eCommerce, my first

question usually is why actually, how did you initially get into eCommerce?

And then they'll tell me, a story about their work with a company.

And then, I'll say why is it in that case that you picked reviews?

Isn't reviews quite a boring aspect of eCommerce?

So you throw a bit of that kind of, challenging sort of thing in there.

And then, what do you think about people that think this way

about that particular aspect?

So it's just that sort of, I try and just keep drilling down into that detail.

And that's when I think you get, those nuggets that you talked about earlier on.

So welcome back to Podjunction.

Great conversation there with Adam.

Yeah, gave me lots of food for thought, actually.

I don't think I was quite finished processing that.

It was quite an abrupt ending to that sort of little

clip, wasn't it, from Adam there.

So again, huge thank you to Adam for coming onto the show and just telling us

how he how he operates with his podcast.

Do check it out.

It's Shopify Across The Pond is his podcast.

But yeah, so you took lots of notes.

What did you get from that?

First thing he started off talking about was social

media and how it's highly curated and it, yeah, it, very polished.

Yeah.

And it does impact our understanding of what is authentic or not.

Yeah.

Isn't it?

It has so much to do with that.

And yet we're all scrolling all the

time, doom scrolling as they like to call it now, don't they?

But no, it's interesting what you said about that with the.

Because we do like to put on these sort of highly polished versions

of life, don't we, on social media.

And I think I totally agree with Adam that actually when you take those same folks

and get them onto a podcast and actually can engage them into a real conversation,

then the sort of the polishness goes and actually it starts to become authentic.

And I think it's a, when you'll know as a podcaster, if you've had guests

on your show, you will know as a podcaster, or if you're just starting

out and you're going to get guests on your show, you'll know when you have

hit something with that guest where you go, this is just sweet or beautiful.

It's genuine.

It's authentic.

This is the reason why I do it.

This is a great conversation.

And you get some guests that are just so amazing with that.

And then you get some guests who are closed up like a duck's butt really as

we like to say but they're so closed that actually it's talking to their social

media profile, do you know what I mean?

And yeah, I thought it was a good analogy.

You take away the polish, I think, with the podcast.

He talked about having a few set questions as chapters akin

to chapters in a book and how he would ask, he asked a question and

kind of digs into it layer by layer.

I was thinking, what if you've got guests who just you ask them a

question and they just love to talk.

They talk good stuff.

They're giving away, like it's genuine, it's all of that, all of

those things, but they like to talk.

Yeah.

So how do you then, as a host, how do you keep them on track in one sense,

but also be able to still extract the things you want because your listeners

are after that particular information.

How would you do

that?

I think there's so many things that you can do there that will help you.

So the reason I'm laughing is because I recorded a podcast yesterday.

I won't mention who I recorded it with, but I, the opening question

you're just thinking was 10 minutes later, he's still talking.

And you're like, so there's a number of things to think about.

What helped me with that guest was number one, I think we prepped

him well, so he knew what was coming up and he knew the kind of

questions that we were going to ask.

I didn't give him a list of all the questions like Adam

on that particular part.

I don't do it on every podcast, but on that particular one we have three.

Key themes that we want to hit.

It is, what's the story?

You do that podcast as well.

And so there's three key, key three questions that we have.

. We're not gonna ask the same the question the same way, but we want those answers

to those three questions every time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So he knew what was coming up.

So he, I think he, once he got off on the first one, he kinda he

knows what's coming up, so he knows he can't keep going and going.

, two, I think actually you've got to ask is what they're saying interesting,

because sometimes we panic that they've gone on for five or six

minutes, but actually that's okay.

If those five or six minutes are really interesting if they're not interesting,

then I think you need to learn from that as a host, and that's when you interrupt.

That's when you become a little bit more forceful with how you ask questions and

not being afraid to do that, because it will actually come across quite naturally.

On the podcast, if you're talking and I'm in a conversation with you and

sometimes we think because we're recording it, we've got to be a bit more polite.

Yeah, but if it's that conversation, just like you were in a pub or

in a coffee shop or something you would make some kind of comment.

And I think you can do that and it does interrupt people when they're talking.

The other thing that I found as well is you can say to people if you think

they're going to be a bit of a talker.

Usually they know it.

It's normally people that have not really been on podcasts before or if they have,

they know they're a bit of a talker.

You have some sort of an agreement which says, if I do this, then that's the

sign you need to stop talking, right?

If you're doing the video, don't do this.

Yeah.

Have you ever had to use that?

This, sorry, if you're listening to the audio, what I'm doing is I'm doing that

thing, where you move your hand underneath your chin, kill ya, kill it dead.

Yeah no, it's just simple things like I might just put my

pencil up in the air like that.

Cause I've always got a pen or a pencil in my hand because I'm always making notes.

That's one of the great ways of getting conversation out of people

is you make notes, active listening.

But yeah, that's one way it is.

But I don't do it like, like I'm at school, hello teacher I've got

the answer, just put my hand, no, it's just a real subtle thing yeah.

And you might watch that podcast and go, you would never know if you're watching

the video, but the guest sees it and goes, okay, I should probably wrap it up.

Yeah.

Cool.

But there have been a few occasions where I've just literally talked over them and

I didn't care because it was my podcast.

And they didn't notice.

No, not at all.

Not at all.

And if they did, they're Oh yeah, sorry, I was going on a little bit there.

Yeah, you were, you little git.

Stop it.

It's one of those where I think, actually, it's okay to make

fun of it, to joke about it.

Sometimes we feel like we have to take it a little bit too serious.

And that would be, yeah, that would be how I would handle those situations.

Just be rude.

Yeah.

I guess what you're saying is that even as we're looking for authenticity in

our guest stories, there's a level of authenticity for us as a host as well.

That's a mic drop

moment.

It's very true.

That's right.

It's a good way of putting it.

You've got to, you've got to do it how you would do the way I think about it.

Some people have different names for it.

I'm like, imagine if you were sat in a coffee shop talking to this person

and someone just put microphones on the table and you forgot they were there and

you were just having that conversation.

Or if you're in the pub, if you're in the UK Rob Brown calls it the fireside chat,

like you're sitting around a fireplace just chatting away, whatever that

scenario, whatever that setting is that works for you, however you do it, if you

imagine that's the kind of conversation you want to have with the guest.

You want them to be authentic.

You've got to be authentic and vulnerable and share what's going on.

But also I know full well, if we're sat in a coffee shop and I'm talking

too much, you're going to interrupt me.

So why would you not do it on a podcast?

Yeah, don't be, stupid about it, but it's okay.

Alright, next.

I was just going to interrupt you there.

I

knew what I could see in you.

So it's good, Matt, you're talking too much now.

How do I interrupt you?

I was going to try and make some jokes.

Didn't work, did it?

No, okay.

Okay.

See, banter's good.

Yeah, banter's good.

Banter's very good, and that's a good way to interrupt people as well.

So what's in your notes, Matt?

One of the things that Adam mentioned was how he

dealt with stinkers, which I thought was such a great phrase.

We've had a few stinkers on our podcast and that if you're outside of maybe

the UK and that doesn't translate, it basically means he's had a few bad

guests, some guests that really were not great and they were going bad.

And actually what Adam did, I think takes a lot of courage as a podcaster.

So if I'm doing a podcast and I'm recording with somebody,

I don't mind if I'm getting on well with them, interrupting

them, I don't mind that banter.

That's authentic conversation.

So that's the first hurdle you've got to overcome.

But if you do get this person on the podcast and you just go, this is not

going the way it needs to go there.

And often it's because they're really salesy.

Or they do keep talking about utter nonsense in a monotone voice, right?

But usually it's because they're salesy.

Normally they've come on, they've got an agenda.

It's I've got to promote to your audience my product.

And I've always said to guests in the past, actually, listen,

if you come across as salesy, the guests are just going to turn off.

The ones we know from the evidence that if you get a guest on the

show, the guests always do well.

All the ones that deliver the most value, right?

So we say this to people that come onto our podcast, just deliver, if you focus on

delivering value, it's going to be great.

And that's got rid of most of the stinkers, but he, what Adam did or does

takes a lot of courage I think as a podcaster and certainly in the early

days is the ability to stop the recording or to stop the guest and to say to the

guest, dude, listen, I'm really sorry.

Maybe I've not prep well enough, but fundamentally, this is not going to work

and it's not going to work because of X, Y and Z so we can either redo what

we've been doing and make it a bit more relevant or we can we can just stop if you

don't think that this is going to work.

I think it's a really, it's a really tricky thing to be able to.

to do that.

It takes a lot of bravery.

It takes a lot of courage.

And good on Adam for doing it,

yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know if I'd be able to.

I'd have, I think I'd have to do quite a few podcasts to get to that point.

To get the confidence.

Yeah.

I think it's, it is a confidence thing and it's the ability to sit there

and think about your audience and go, actually, what does my audience want here?

The way I know some people deal with this, because Adam.

It's a bit like me.

I don't mind actually stopping people mid interview and

just going, I'm really sorry.

I probably, I maybe would be a bit more tactful if I was doing a live stream,

that would be a bit more interesting, but if I'm just doing a straightforward

recording, I don't mind interrupting people and having that chat with them.

But the other way I've seen people doing it is to say at the end of the

podcast, just record the podcast as normal, but then not air the podcast.

Yeah.

And then just, write to the guests, say, thanks for coming on the show.

We've decided not to wear the podcast because of this, and this was, the

production team didn't think it was right.

We don't, and as long as you're putting your terms and conditions,

when people come on the show, we don't always, every podcast we record.

Yeah, I think, but I thought it was interesting.

Like I say, the courage to stand up to, to interrupt somebody and

go, you stink, stop stinking.

This is how you stop stinking.

Yeah.

Do you want to stop stinking?

Yes or no?

If yes, we'll carry on if No, thanks for coming on this far, man.

Appreciate it.

God bless you.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

That kind of thing.

Yeah.

Does that answer that question?

It does, yeah.

Yeah, that was what was in my notes.

So what's your top tip then?

'cause you've, obviously you're starting out with podcasting.

You're, you've done a fair few now what, 2030 of your own podcast episodes maybe?

I dunno, not really counted.

No, not that many.

Not

really counted.

Not that really.

We'll sit close to your microphone.

Sorry.

We're still learning.

We're still learning every, all of it.

We're on a journey.

We're all learning.

We are.

We are.

Very much.

I think for me, what, and I know this, but I think just hearing it from someone,

you hear other people saying the same type of thing, it just helps stick the point.

But I think to be a good host.

You and you said it too, in the interview that you have to have a curious mind.

Yeah.

And I don't, cause I think for me, it was always like you have to have the

experience to be able to understand the kind of questions you need to ask.

And I think you do to some degree, but it's not everything and asking

those questions that dig and go beneath the layers, layer after

layer, I think that's where you get the authenticity and the stories.

Yeah, it's a very powerful point because there have been occasions

whereby I've had guests who I thought were maybe a little bit dull at the start or

wasn't really going the right direction.

And I thought to myself you think through several things.

Do I need to stop this interview?

Do I need to restart it, which we've talked about?

Do I need to maybe do that?

Or sometimes it's a bit of a challenge where I set myself

where I go, no, I'm not, I am.

For me as a host, the challenge here is to make this as interesting as

possible, as quickly as possible, right?

And so how skilled am I at asking a question that can bring this

back on track straight away and actually be quite interesting?

That is a skill.

And as I think as long as you're doing active listening it's a lot easier to do

if you do the old active listening thing.

Yeah.

I have used that skill, that tactic and that comes from that always having that

curious mind just as people are saying stuff that's, we were joking around the

office earlier on we were in a meeting that was just a bit dull last week.

One guy went on for about 45 minutes and we're just like, and actually

whilst he was going on for those 45 minutes, some of the others zoned out.

I didn't I was doing other things, but I was listening and my ear was listening

because I think sometimes people say, like this particular guy I knew he was going

to give him enough rope to hang himself.

If you just let him talk it's just one of those guys.

And so just one or two key things came out of that actually,

which was really helpful for me.

Really helpful.

So it's that skill, that talent.

I think when things are boring to either pick up on something that's interesting

and ask great questions to make it interesting again, or if you don't,

if you can't, if there's no obvious route to do that, stop it, kill it.

And start again or end it.

Yeah, no, I like that.

Top tips.

Top tips.

Look at the time, we've been, this is, we're coming up for the 30 minute mock.

I think we should probably end it there, should we?

Yeah, we should.

Anything else from you?

No, we're good.

We're good.

Today, key takeaways.

Number one, use your microphone correctly.

Yes.

Number two, if you have those guests on that are stinkers

questions to ask yourself.

Can I get this interesting straight away by asking a really good question here?

Or, do I need to stop it and kill it?

What was your key takeaway?

Mine was about The stories, so have a curious mind.

So active listening, as you said, let's, we can instill it all in, distill it

rather in down into those two words.

Have

a curious mind sounds much better.

Yes.

Cool.

Okay.

Awesome.

Thank you so much for joining us.

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sign up to the newsletter on the website.

You can find out more information about us on the website, podjunction.

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It'd be great to see you in there.

So yeah, thanks for joining us.

We will see you next time.

Bye for now.

Bye.

And that brings us to the end of today's episode at PodJunction,

where business meets podcasting.

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Remember, every episode is a change.

Chance to gain insights and to transform your business with podcasting.

So keep tuning in, keep learning, and until next time, happy podcasting.