Joyce Fiddler, a multifaceted artist and author, captivated listeners with her remarkable life story steeped in the spirit of the Baby Boomer generation. The conversation flows through her vibrant past, including her experience as a singer-songwriter who opened for legendary acts like Meatloaf and the Go-Go's. Joyce’s journey is marked by her struggle with alcoholism, which she candidly discusses alongside her years of sobriety. Having been sober for 34 years, she provides valuable insights into the impact of alcohol on women's lives, especially amidst the societal pressures that glorify drinking.

The discussion takes a thoughtful turn as Joyce recounts the personal challenges that led her to seek sobriety, including a poignant moment when her children intervened in her life. Her story serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of recognizing one’s struggles and the transformative journey toward recovery. Joyce shares how attending Al-Anon meetings opened her eyes to her issues with alcohol and led her to a profound understanding of addiction, not just in herself but in those around her.

Joyce introduces her newly released book, “Evolution of a Baby Boomer: Life Beyond Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll.” She reflects on her writing process and the motivation behind sharing her experiences. The book intertwines personal anecdotes with musical elements, offering readers a unique narrative that is both entertaining and relatable. Joyce’s message is clear: life is a continuous journey, and it is never too late to embrace change, find joy in creativity, and share one’s story with the world. Her infectious spirit and candidness are sure to inspire listeners to contemplate their own paths in life.

Takeaways:

• Joyce Fiddler shares her journey to sobriety, emphasizing the importance of support groups like AA.
• She highlights that sobriety doesn't mean giving up fun or excitement in life.
• Joyce encourages women to rethink their relationship with alcohol, especially in their 40s and 50s.
• Sustaining sobriety involves daily commitments and finding new passions to fill the void.
• Joyce reflects on her experiences as a musician, opening for iconic bands like Meatloaf.
• Her book combines personal stories with music, creating an engaging audio experience for listeners.

Hey, friends, and welcome back to the podcast. Empower her wellness. I am Shelley, your host, and I am so glad you have joined me today with for this episode with Joyce Vidler.

I reached out to Joyce to ask her to be on the podcast because, well, for lots of reasons, as you'll find out. But one of the reasons was she was an opening act for Meatloaf. And for those of you who know me, I love the band Meatloaf boun out of hell.

Great, great album. And I know, viewers, either you love Meatloaf or you hate Meatloaf, but I happen to love the singer.

So I was super, super excited to be able to talk to Joyce. In this episode, Joyce is going to share her journey of sobriety and personal growth after living alcohol free for three decades.

She talks about moments that led to her embracing sobriety. We're going to talk about the cultural pressures surrounding alcohol consumption, especially for women.

And Joyce is going to offer encouragement for those of us who are considering a change. Joyce discusses her past in the music scene, including opening for iconic acts like Meat Loaf and the Go Gos.

Joyce has a new book out, evolution of a baby boomer life beyond sex, drugs, and rock and roll, which really goes deeper into her life experiences. And Joyce reminds us that it's never too late to pursue our passions and share our stories.

Hey, before I start the episode with Joyce, I want to remind you, you can support the podcast. If you get any value out of this episode or the episodes I have produced, please consider giving me a tip. Link is down below in the show notes.

Support the podcast. Okay, friends, on to my conversation with Joyce. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. Empower her wellness.

I have Joyce Fiddler with me today, and I'm super excited to talk with you, Joyce. So welcome, welcome, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

When I found Joyce on a podcast guest website, you had said that you were an opening act for songs you have written correct for Meatloaf. And I was like, you had me at meat loaf. I love that bat out of hell album. So we're going to talk about that a little later in the episode.

But again, welcome. I really appreciate you taking time to do this.

So, Joyce, you have a book out, your first book, evolution of a baby boomer life beyond sex, drugs, and rock and roll. And you have done so much. I'm just going to do a brief little synopsis here, and then we're going to get right into the conversation.

You are owner of a record store, head shop right. You are a singer and a video of MTV with songs that you wrote.

You are at a university of communications instructor or a secondary special educator and actor, and you wrote a one woman show, evolution of a Pisces baby boomer. Pisces baby boomer. So. Oh my gosh, you've done a lot. You've done a lot.

So one of the things that I wanted to talk about that you had in your thing that you sent me was you've been sober for quite a few years now.

Yeah, just turned 34.

Yeah.

So I would really like to talk about your experience about that before we get into other things, because I know for my audience, women over 50, drinking is like become a pastime for us. And I know from research it's killing us.

And we see all these things about mommy culture, you know, mommy wine culture, and mommy needs her wine and women in their forties and thirties starting this. So I really like to start the conversation with that because I know it's a big topic for some of my guests.

So what made you decide to get sober so many years ago and how's that process been? And you just start and I'll ask the questions.

Okay.

So when you're going.

There were two different paths that led me to sobriety. One was I was married to the first guy I ever slept with.

And at about ten years into the marriage, I decided I wanted to have, I wanted to date around because I'd never experienced being with other men.

That led me to meeting and getting head over heels for this younger guy who I then moved into our house, but only for the last six years of our marriage. And that guy turned out to be an alcoholic.

You know, not a big shocker that it took somebody drunk to go, oh, yeah, I'll move in with you and your husband and your two kids.

So behind his alcoholism, I started going to Al Anon, which I don't know if people know, it's a program for friends and family of alcoholics, and they have the same twelve step program that alcoholics Anonymous uses. And in doing the steps there, I started to see my own alcoholism, which I had no idea about.

You know, if I compared my drinking and my daily pot smoking to his drinking, I looked like a lightweight. Plus, I had decided I wanted to be a singer in a band. And if you are hanging out with a bunch of musicians, they tend to be heavy drinkers as well.

And so, you know, part of my path was going to Al Anon where they told me I should as part of my program, I needed to go visit Alcoholics Anonymous meetings so that I could understand and encourage the alcoholic. And so I went to AA meetings. I often went loaded. You know, they had smoke breaks. I would go stoned and think, you know, I smoke, they smoke.

We all smoke. You know, the fact that they were smoking cigarettes and I was smoking weed seemed like a minor detail to me.

Minor details, yeah, exactly.

And, you know, my record store was also a head shop where we sold bongs and we sold roach clips. And I got high during my shift. You know, I would grab some incense off the rack and go into the restroom and get high while I was working.

I also would take whatever drink I was in the mood for, and I would bring it to work with me. So I'd be drinking gin and tonics while I sold you your Led Zeppelin or your meatloaf album.

And, and then, but, but then the second impetus, because I said there were two things, was my children did a bizarre kind of intervention on me. So at age of, at the age of 40, I decided I was moving to LA to pursue my dreams.

And as I got ready to, you know, sell my house, I finally had gotten divorced from that husband, and I was getting ready to leave, and my kids said, we're not coming. And I was like, what do you mean you're not coming? They were 13 and 16 year old daughters, and they had had enough of me, and they were over it.

And they just said, no, we're staying here with dad. And dad, by the way, is a really good guy, you know, fairly codependent if you let your wife move her boyfriend in.

But he was also the keyboard in the band, and he, you know, so in any case. But that was the devastating emotional bottom that I hit. And when I got to California, I just. I knew I would go to Al Anon meetings.

But I also made a decision that if I was going to pursue an acting career at the 40 years old, that I probably should not be loaded when I was auditioning, and that it would just give people another excuse not to hire me. So maybe I should try to, you know, not find a dealer. That was my pledge. I'm not going to find a pot dealer.

And I started going to meetings, and I was going to Narcotics Anonymous, which I had never actually heard of. So they have a slogan in the twelve step meetings, is that odd or is that God?

I mean, I don't know what made me open up a phone book and look up narcotics Anonymous, but it was there. I started going to those meetings, and they have a thing that they say at the beginning of the meeting.

We don't take anything that affects us from the neck up, including alcohol. And I just would go, yeah, but they don't mean me. I'd never gotten a DUI. I'd never, you know, been busted.

Not that I didn't deserve them, but I never got caught. And Indianapolis is more of a small townish, and so, yeah, I just thought I still could drink.

And one night, a guy at the NA meeting asked me to go for coffee, and over coffee, he said to me, you know, you and your little pot problem, why don't you come back when you get a real drug? And I was, like, talking about. And he goes, like, I know you are still drinking.

And if we drink, we'll be back slamming heroin or doing whatever people do with an eight ball. You know, he was just basically saying, you can't keep coming to our meetings if you're going to keep drinking.

Now, the truth is, that's not how the program works. The program says, you know, the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop.

Right.

He scared me. I thought I wasn't going to be allowed to come.

And I, at that point, I think I had 14 days of no drinking and no weed, and I didn't want to be kicked out. And the proposal he made, which I would tell your listeners, he had me think of it this way.

Alcoholism is this thing that, you know, if you take the first drink, then it sets off what they call the phenomenon of craving. And he said, let's say you think your deal is pot, but you give yourself permission to still drink, which I was doing. He said, let's play that out.

You're in a club, you have a little brewski. Someone walks up and goes, you want to go burn one? What's your answer?

And when I played that out, and I tried to envision what it would be like if I had to say no, if I'd had a couple of cocktails, I realized, oh, yeah, I would have no resistance, and that makes it risky. So I just made a decision that weekend I would try. I was getting together with a bunch of college friends.

I have this group of college friends who get together every new year's for an annual air guitar competition. We've got a traveling trophy. We take it very seriously. And I was meeting those folks, and I said, I'm just not going to drink this weekend.

And when I told them, I was kind of shocked because nobody goes, oh, come on, Joyce, have one. Because they all had pictures of me passed out at parties making a fool of myself.

They had all lived with me through the open marriage and through all the chaos and the divorce. So they were all like, you know, good for you, Joyce. Nobody was saying I should probably just go ahead and drink anyway. So now it's been 34 years.

Yeah. I find, you know, I interviewed some doctor, Jenny, she's a psychologist, and I've got sinus issues, brain fog going on. She's a health. Health coach.

Nutritionist. Nutritionist coach. And she talks about what you just said, like, I'm not going to drink for the weekend when you have to make that decision.

I'm just not going to drink ever. As opposed to giving yourself this time frame, because then you. Then you. The thoughts go in your head of.

Then you're like, oh, I can't wait till Monday when I start drinking again, because I promised myself I wouldn't drink over the weekend. Well, good for your friends for encouraging you to not drink. And how difficult was that to stop?

Because it sounds like you have a long history of imbibing and alcohol.

Yeah, no. 20 years. I drank and used weed for 20 years, and I was very committed to it. I thought it was fantastic. I had so much fun.

But again, what they say in meetings is, first there's fun, then there's fun with problems, then there's just problems. And again, I was fortunate that my problems were not gargantuan. I didn't go to jail. I didn't ever get locked up in a psych warden.

I know plenty of people who have.

I'm involved. I have a commitment. At most of those meetings today, my commitment was, I'm the cleanup chick.

So I was washing cups and, you know, putting away the coffee pot and doing all this, you know, because that's the thing, you know, if you. If you take away something that's been a daily obsession, what are you going to replace it with?

Exactly.

Yeah. And so for me, it's been. Replace it with, I had a big, full life when I was loaded. I need a big, full life because it's who I am.

My nickname is energized, like the Energizer Bunny, which, you know, kind of comes from when I was teaching communications classes in, you know, I taught for five different universities for five years, and they, every semester people had to fill out these evaluations, and inevitably there'd be a handful of them that would go, oh, my God, she's got so much energy. And, yeah, it's just kind of the way I'm wired.

So, I don't know, maybe pot was the thing I was drawn to because it mellowed me out and I was able to lay back a bit.

So you, you talked about how you'd never been picked up for a DUI or, you know, other things. So did.

Is that in that, is that in your mind a way of saying, well, I really don't have a problem because I've never been picked up or I've never been in jail or. But, but you were, you said you were passing out, so that would be an indicator of.

Definitely, for most folks, that would be a hint. Yeah. Right. I mean, I remember stumbling up the sidewalk to our house.

We had this big, beautiful solar home in Indianapolis that we built in the seventies, and I barely made it in the door, and I passed out on the slate entryway, you know, with my face on that cold stone. And my boyfriend found me there and was like, come on, you got to get to bed, and, you know, before the kids see you.

So, yeah, I mean, I had plenty of humiliating drunken experiences. I didn't know what a blackout was. I never heard anybody refer to it as a blackout. I just thought I had a really great night.

And the fact that I didn't remember details was sort of a. Oh, well, you know, hopefully it wasn't anything too horrible, but sometimes, you know, you'd see these pictures and I'd be like. And.

And, you know, someone captured the insanity of the moment and it was little tough to watch. Although at the time, I was just proud of it. I was just like, look what a party girl I am. Woo hoo. Look who had the most fun last night.

But, you know, there were certainly things with my kids like, I remember my, on the natch, I'm like a screamer and a, you know, somewhat of a. My father in law called me a pushy broad. She's kind of a pushy broad, ain't she, by the way? He was.

He spent a lot of time in Missouri, where he lived, but Oklahoma born, and he. So I would, that would be how I'd be to the kids, get this place cleaned up. Everybody, do your. Do your jobs.

You know, but when I was high, I'd be like, girls, can you vacuum?

Yeah.

And then I'd see them saying to each other, she's been smoking. I could see their lips, and they knew I could see their lips. They wanted me to know that they knew that I was loaded.

Yeah. Yeah.

And they didn't like it.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, congratulations on your sobriety for three decades. That's quite an accomplishment, I think.

And, you know, as we talked briefly before, I find it very disheartening, heartening that there's this culture around alcohol, which makes it seem so glamorous, you know, whether it's the tv commercials with all the hot guys and hot women or on social media, you know, the mommy wine culture.

So what would you say to, before we go to our next topic, what would you say to women who are in their forties and fifties and think that they can't get through the day without their mommy juice or their glass of wine after work?

Well, I would encourage them to just go visit an Alcoholics anonymous meeting. They say, you know, try six meetings. Just go to six random meetings.

Or if you know somebody who's sober, that's the easiest way, is ask them if they'll please take you to a meeting.

But otherwise, you visit six meetings, and then if you don't resonate with any of it, the slogan is, we'll gladly refund your misery, but if it resonates with you, there is help there. And I find it to be the easiest and the most comfortable way to get sober and stay sober.

Because when you are in a pattern of drinking and you hang out with people who drink the way you do in the program, we call that your lower companions, then, you know, it's comfortable to be with that whole atmosphere.

But if you go to meetings and you get involved in your sobriety and you reach out to somebody and ask them to sponsor you so you don't have to do it alone or figure it out by yourself, then you build this whole new community. We're going to be having this huge party on Sunday because a woman who's a very critical person in our meeting is turning 45 years sober.

And, oh, wow, it'll be a big barbecue swim party. It is so much fun. And karaoke. I mean, that's the thing. There's a line in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous that says, we are not a glum lot.

And that is the case. I mean, my experience has been that it's just because you get sober doesn't mean you have to get dull, doesn't mean you have to get boring.

Doesn't mean that you have to have no life or not be, you know, challenged with opportunities to have a good time.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for that and thank you for sharing your story. So we're gonna do, we're gonna do a whip last year.

We're gonna talk about another subject, which I find interesting. So you've been married for 25 years to a man who's twelve years younger than you are.

And I found that interesting because I am, my partner Steve is 13 years older than I am. So how do you feel? Like there's been a double standard. So like it's okay for a man to have a woman who's that much younger.

So how has that experience been for you when you have a, when you're married to someone who's, you know, twelve years younger? And to me that doesn't seem like, I mean, to me that doesn't seem like such a big age gap unless you're like 24 and he's twelve.

And that's inappropriate, people, so don't be doing that. But you know, when you get to be older, it doesn't seem like a big deal.

So how, how has that experience been for you with withdeze being married to a man so much younger than you are?

Well, a couple of things. For one thing, he always was with older women.

So when he was in high school, he actually went to a classmate's house for a party and ended up living with her mom for several years. So when he brought me around, his family was kind of like, oh God, here we go again.

Yeah, yeah.

He sort of had a pattern of dating older women. Now I'll say he was an alcoholic. So was she. So again, that kind of crazy connection he had as a young guy was easier because they were both drunks.

And I met him in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. Actually, I went to somebody's baby shower and he was there moving furniture around. And he and I got on opposite ends of a couch.

And when we sat down I thought, well, he's kind of cute, you know, so we started talking. But the nobody cares, frankly. I mean, he was 37 and I was 49 when we got married. So I was on the cusp of my 50th birthday.

But nobody seemed to, you know, think anything of it. My rule was I tried not to date people that were, you know, my daughter's age. So that was the thing. That was my standard.

And so he is also in the program, right now he's out golfing with his sponsor. He is also active in recovery.

I think that's a big part of why things work out well, because we have that big shared experience, and we've been able to have amazing adventures. You know, one of the things that I hear women say who are married to much older men is that they have a hard time as they reach.

As the woman reaches retirement age, because the man is not able to ambulate. You know, they can't get around so much, so they don't get to go travel and do stuff.

He and I are taking a trip we're calling 100 years of life in love trip when we go to Australia for Christmas and New Year's. This year, we'll spend Christmas in Australia, and then New Year's in, what's it called? Tasmania, because my daughter lives there.

She's been living in Australia for ten years. This will be our third trip there.

On our last trip there, we climbed the Sydney Harbor Bridge and, you know, got to the top of the Sydney Harbor Bridge and sang karaoke over the Sydney Opera house.

Oh, cool.

Cool at night.

Fabulous place to be.

Yeah, it was fabulous.

This year, we'll be on the water in a boat watching the fireworks at the place where they celebrate New Year's before anyone else because it's the side of the word. It's a day early, right. So he and I get to do a lot of things. You know, he plays golf, he plays softball.

He is physically still, you know, quite active, although he did have a little cardiac event recently.

Happens to the best of us, Joyce.

I know. Believe me, I know.

Yeah.

Yeah, right. But we have a lot of fun, and people just basically. They laugh. Thankfully, he's very gray, and I don't. My hair doesn't go gray.

If it did go completely gray, I would leave it that way. But I've got, like, a few spots here and there.

And last year, I was in a play where the director, his question before he cast me was, are you willing to color your hair? Because he needed me to play a woman who was 55. And it happened to be a play about Alcoholics Anonymous, the founding of Alcoholics Anonymous.

I was playing the wife of one of the founders. So I was playing the wife who starts, you know, she's one of the founders of Al Anon.

Yeah.

And he had me color my hair for that. And then I thought, oh, I kind of like it. And so I've just kept coloring it since then.

Yeah.

But, yeah, nobody gives us crap. They basically just make jokes. When he and I first started dating, we thought sort of the comment you made, wow.

If I were dating him when I was in high school and took him to my prom, I would have taken a first grader. Yeah, it had been pretty inappropriate.

So it's an interesting point that you make, because up until recently, I don't know if you know, but Steve was diagnosed with transverse myelitis almost a year ago, which is an inflammation of the spine. He's. He's now able to walk with a cane and walk unaided. And I've become his full time caregiver, although he doesn't need as much care as he used to.

But I was 50, and he was 63 when I met him. That guy ran circles around me, and I had done things like climb 14 ers in Colorado, run half marathons.

I mean, I was super active, and this guy made me tired. So that was a good point that you made, because for me, it was like, well, this guy can keep up with me because I can't keep up with him before his.

His diagnosis. But he went to all. He's a huge music. Music lover, and he buy tickets to go see Neil Simon, like, in St. Louis, and he follow him to Chicago.

And then he would, you know, that he would, you know, do all these things, and he would come home, you know, so he was super, super active.

Okay, so is that meal Neil Young or was that Paul Simon?

You said Neil Young. Did I say Neil Simon?

Yeah. Okay.

Neil Young. Neil Young. He's a huge new fan. So my point is, like, yeah, it's a good. I don't know that I could have been.

If I'd have met him at 63 and he was, like, an old 63, then I probably would not have been able to be like, I'm super active still, and I can't do this. Well, that is good. So let me ask you this. How hard? Because, you know, I've heard stories about, you know, two.

Two alcoholics shouldn't get together if, you know, especially if you met in AA. And that, you know, that's a recipe for disaster. But I would think that that would be a good way to.

I mean, you have someone that knows what you're going through. I mean, you have this shared experience of.

Right. I go to a. Yes, I go to a meeting called the Pacific Group.

And the founder of that meeting used to have a slogan directly to what you're speaking about two sickies don't make a welly.

So it depends, because if you talk about two people who are drunks who don't actually work a recovery program, don't try to be their best self, or don't, you know, try to take responsibility for their bad actions, then absolutely. But that's true whether they be alcoholic or not.

Exactly.

My experience is, if you have people who are actually honest about who they are and what they are about, it's a wonderful opportunity to have a very thriving union again.

My husband and I, we made the mistake one time of traveling without going to a meeting, and we spent a week someplace in Mexico, and we couldn't figure out how to get to an english speaking meeting, so we just didn't go to anything. And by the end of it, we did this insane thing where we signed up for this timeshare.

It was like an $8,000 non refundable deposit, and it was just this whole big, stupid thing. And it took months to weasel my way out of that one. I eventually did.

But for us, what that showed us is when we get ready to go on a trip, our alcoholism comes and gets itself into my suitcase, uninvited and unwelcome, and I have to get to a meeting at the other end at some point. I once heard Eric Clapton speak at a musician's picnic, an AA event, and he said, I'm an alcoholic who plays guitar between meetings.

In other words, he has to make his alcoholism and his recovery the first priority. If he makes his celebrity or his, you know, talent the thing that he thinks about the most, then he doesn't stand a chance of being his best self.

Now, I don't like a lot of his most recent public opinions, but that's a whole side thing. He puts his sobriety first, and I've adopted that same philosophy. Anything I do, I say to myself in my head.

Well, that's the thing I did between meetings. And that way, it loses its importance.

You know, my husband and I have been to meetings in Bali, in New Zealand, in Paris, in Dublin, in Mexico, in Canada, all over the country. Some of them are wonderful meetings. Some of them suck. But it's okay.

They still help us stay focused on the thing that's most important, because, frankly, if we don't stay sober, we don't have the good life that we have.

Yeah. My dad was an alcoholic, so he stopped drinking. I don't remember when.

It may have been after mom had her aneurysm, but he stopped drinking because mom stopped smoking, and she'd been sick, and he stopped drinking. I'm surprised it didn't kill him, seriously, because he quit cold turkey. No meetings, nothing. Just quit cold turkey.

And like I said, I'm surprised it didn't kill him. And he stayed sober for many years, and then mom died. And I thought, well, mom died suddenly in her sleep. That was.

Yeah.

And I thought, oh, this is going to do. Dad in. That's going to be it. You know, dad's going to start drinking. And he didn't. Wow. And then he did start drinking again.

And I don't know the timeline for sure, but he'd been diagnosed with terminal lung cancer, and I think he probably had. He knew before he told us. So I think he'd start drinking and smoking then, because he thought, well, this is the end. Why not enjoy it?

But, um, my point of that story was he was what he was on what some people referred to as a dry drunk.

Yes.

He was still a drunk. He just wasn't drinking. And he was still the same asshole that he'd always been and sometimes even worse.

Yep.

And because he had not, he didn't have it. And his whole family, his dad, you know, his grandpa, his brothers, they were all alcoholics. His uncles were all alcoholics.

It was just a big old family of alcoholics, you know? And here's my dad without any sort of support. And it really showed in his attitude and, you know, basically, what an asshole he continued to be.

Exactly.

To the grandkids, not so much. The grandkids loved him. He was totally different with the grandkids. So. Yeah, but that.

So when you were talking about, you know, doing the thing of, you know, getting to the $8,000 deposit on a timeshare, I immediately went to my dad and thought, yeah. Who had never had any support with his alcoholism.

Yeah.

So I think that's important point that we make about you. Do you feel your drinking is out of control and you need help? Don't. Don't do it alone.

Go well. And it's available worldwide.

I've been to several international conventions, and I've heard people say that alcoholics Anonymous is the most important and valuable thing that the United States has given to the world.

You know, because the meetings are available everywhere, even in places where alcohol is illegal and nobody's supposed to be drinking, they sometimes have to go to great lengths and have underground, you know, secret meetings, but they still make it happen. And it's kind of.

We'll put some. I'll put some resources for Alcoholics Anonymous down in the show notes below. So make sure you check those out, my listeners.

Okay, another whiplash moment here. You had a band that said that open for meatloaf. I just cannot get. I love meatloaf. I love that bat out of hell album so much.

I used to know every single word to every song. I'm bat out of hell. I belted in the car on the cd. So, um. And then you also opened for another group, the go go. Oh, okay.

Well, I read that, but I guess I was so enamored with meatloaf, I totally slipped my mind. But so how was that, that experience? And were they songs that you wrote? How big was your band? I mean, where'd you guys travel? Just. Just tell me.

Tell me all about that.

Yes. So in my thirties, I decided, you know, after I started the open marriage bit then I also had always wanted to be in a band.

And so a guy who worked at my head shop said, hey, my girlfriend is starting a band and they need a singer. And so I went and auditioned. She was the drummer, and it was all girls and one guy. And the name of the band was lip service. And we.

We were playing clubs, and they were not very good. These women had just taught themselves to play. We had a really talented sax player and bass player.

She played the sax and the bass, but the keyboard player was, you know, kind of, you know, good fun. And the drummer had just taught herself to play. And.

And then we had this guy who played really good guitar, and we started playing, but they were just. They were timid about going out. And eventually we ended up parting ways just at the moment when we had been invited to open for the go goes.

So I had to throw another band together, which we called the obvious. And our slogan was don't overlook the obvious. And so we opened for the go goes under that name.

We probably had that name still when we opened for Meatloaf and the go go show was this tiny little new wave club called Crazy Owls. And it was a fabulous experience, except that we had this new guitar player who kept his guitar, kept going out of tune.

So in between each song, he was having to retune, and I was, like, humiliated. That were bombing, you know, it's so upsetting.

And because at that point, we had three girls and three guys in the band, and we played some go go songs, but we pulled them out of the set. And when we got off stage, the bass player for the go go said, oh, my God. That was the most exciting thing that's happened on this tour.

You played a song that I wrote, and I was so humiliated. I thought, how did we do that? I thought, we pulled all their songs out, and she said, we don't get along.

I said, we got that song off of Phil Seymour album. And she goes, yeah, I wrote that song for Phil. So she was ecstatic. We were humiliated. But then they played and they were great.

And shortly thereafter, we were invited to open for meatloaf at the Vogue. Now, the vogue was a much bigger club, and, you know, kind of the biggest, hippest club. And we. We warmed up for him. The.

When we closed our set, we played a Rolling Stone song, midnight Rambler. And my then husband, you know, was playing the harmonica. And it was. It was a great version. We played it really well. So then Meatloaf goes on to.

He closes his set with the exact same song. I thought, oh, that is so embarrassing. Oh, how weird. If you're the headliner and the warm up act closes with a song, wouldn't you change yours?

Anyway, I went to the tour bus after they got off stage, and meat loaf gave me a kiss. So, Shelley, I got a kiss from your guy.

That's awesome. That's awesome. What a great story.

It was good fun.

Yeah. Hey, before we wrap up the conversation, I do want you talk about your book.

Oh, yes.

Evolution of a baby life beyond sex, drugs and rock and roll. This is your first book. How long has it been out?

I just hit on Amazon April 27, so it's only been a few months.

Okay.

We have, like, 73 reviews, so get the book and leave me a review, please. Folks, put that down.

We'll put a link to it down below in the show notes so people can find it.

Yeah. It's available as an ebook Kindle. I think they have it on Amazon. It's also a paperback. It's also an audiobook. But here's the thing.

In the book I talk about, this happened, and then I wrote a song about it, and then here are some of the lyrics in the audiobook. I say, this happened, I wrote a song about it, and then a recording of my band playing the song comes in.

So it's way more fun if you really like music, if you get. Get the audiobook.

Nice, nice, nice.

And they're on audible, but it's everywhere. You can get it. If you have a library card in California, you can get it on the Hoopla app. It's also on Spotify. It's everywhere as an audiobook.

Awesome. I'll definitely have to look that up.

Thanks.

So this has been so much fun.

I love, you know, one of the reasons I contacted you when I read the, you know, about you on the podcast page was that I thought, oh, she's just so out of the box. You know, other people that usually. I usually usually contact me or that I, you know, pursue. So I was just super excited to talk, talk to you.

So thank you for being so open about your life and sharing your experiences and all that.

It's been a good ride.

Yeah, it sounds like. It sounds like fun. And so before we. Before we. I end the conversation, though, do you have any parting words of wisdom for my listeners?

Well, just that, you know, it's never too late. I mean, I'm 74, and I just published my first book. So I.

At this age, literally every week, someone I know either passes away or is diagnosed with some critical illness. And I just thought to myself, you know, really, are you going to die with your book in a box under your bed?

I started writing this book 20 years ago, and I pulled it out and I thought, no, really, I'm going to just put it out there. And the reviews have been reading. The reviews have been like being at my own memorial.

Since the book is about my life, people are commenting on what my life story, how it impacts them. And it feels like, you know how when you go to a memorial, people talk about how somebody's life impacted them? It feels like that.

And, you know, let's face it, at a memorial, you're not there listening to all the nice things people say. So it's very satisfying. It's very rewarding. And I would encourage any listener who has been told their entire life, you should write a book.

You have a fascinating story. You should write a book, which is what people had been telling me for years. Do it. Write the dang book.

Well, I think those are encouraging words to end our conversation on. Thank you so much, Joyce. I really appreciate it.