Shownotes
In this episode of Dog Tag Diaries, we sit down with a remarkable woman who served both before and after 9/11. She shares her experiences as a Damage Controlman, the challenges she faced in a pre-repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" military, and her journey of navigating life and service on her own terms.
Prepare to be inspired by Jenifer Groves' raw and unfiltered experience. Faced with childhood trauma, Jenifer chose faith and resilience to guide her path. Jenifer touches on life before and after 9/11, shedding light on the controversial "don't ask, don't tell" policy and its impact on LGBTQ+ service members like herself. As she recounts her hardships, including a "marriage of convenience" that was more necessary than convenient, and traumatic separations from her children, Jenifer offers crucial insights into the unique challenges military women face. Her candid advice to women considering a military career— "Don’t lose your voice"—is a powerful call to action, encouraging listeners to champion the stories and struggles of military women. With grit, she balanced motherhood and deployments, raising two children who later joined the military.
Resources:
https://modernmilitary.org/programs/lgbtq-advocacy/
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Transcripts
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Kim [:Ever wondered what it was like to serve in the military before and after 9/11? Join us on this episode of Dog Tag Diaries as we delve into the compelling story of a damaged controlman who faced the trials of a free repeal, don't ask, don't tell era, and emerged with a powerful narrative of resilience and self discovery.
Dakota [:Don't miss this inspiring conversation.
Kim [:Welcome to Dog Tag Diaries, where military women share true stories. We are your hosts, Captain Kim
Dakota [:And Captain Dakota. The stories you are about to hear are powerful. We appreciate that you have joined us and are eager to learn more about these experiences and connect with the military women who are willing to share their stories in order to foster community and understanding.
Kim [:Military women are providing valuable insight into their experiences, struggles, and triumphs. By speaking their truth, they contribute to a deeper understanding of the challenges they face and the resilience they demonstrate.
Dakota [:We appreciate your decision to join us today to gain insights and knowledge from the experiences of these courageous military women. Thank you for being here.
Kim [:In this episode of Dog Tag Diaries, we sit down with a remarkable woman who served both before and after 911.
Dakota [:She shares her experiences as a damage controlman, the challenges she faced in the pre repeal don't ask, don't tell military, and her journey of navigating life and service on her own term.
Kim [:And we have Jennifer Grover with us. Thank you for being here.
Jenifer Grover [:Thank you, guys.
Kim [:Yeah. So give us a brief overview of your background growing up.
Jenifer Grover [:So I was born and raised in Salem, Oregon, and it's a brief broad stroke background. I was the product of an affair with a married man that my mother worked with. I was raised by a predominant single mother until I was ten. I just had my older sister and I. At that time, she met the man who adopted me and became my father and raised me all the way through, you know, the rest of my teenage years and into my fun twenties that we all have when we're 20 years old and going. But I had a a different childhood. You could say it was fairly traumatic. I've worked through a good portion of that as an adult.
Jenifer Grover [:But now as an adult, I realize how that overlaid into my military and then into my later life.
Kim [:Can you elaborate on the trauma?
Jenifer Grover [:So, like I said, I was raised by a single mother, and so we were, I'm the last of the Gen X years. And so we were kind of feral for lack of a better term. Most of my childhood prior to my my father, I remembered in snippets of the men that my mother was dating. Not in how old I was or in any of that, but the men that she dated. And then at one point in time, she was married to a severely abusive man for a while, and my sister and I both endured that. While my mother was not an alcoholic, alcohol played a huge role in our lives growing up. There was at one point in time when we were young, I think I was 6 or 7. My sister is 5 years older than I am, so I may have been slightly younger than that.
Jenifer Grover [:My mom went to go get the man she was dating, and they'd been dating for a while from the bar. And so we were supposed to go down to the neighbor's house and they were gonna watch us. Well, they didn't watch us. And so we were literally on the streets until 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning. It was dark out. I was little, so my sister was 5 years old than I and wasn't you know, I mean, we were we were little kids. You know? So that's kind of the the trauma that we endured. The marriage with my father, it was toxic at times.
Jenifer Grover [:My parents had a lot of arguments and so forth. So but despite all that, I do have a good relationship with my mother, and she taught me a lot. And she is an incredible woman. It's just, you know, she made bad choices.
Kim [:I love that you were able to bring that positive out in that. That shows that you're a very compassionate woman.
Jenifer Grover [:I learned along a while ago even before I started on my healing path the last few years that I can do one of 2 things. I can be mad and be justified at being angry at all the bad things that have happened, and I can be perfectly justified in that, or I can choose to be happy and move past. And so that's generally what I try to do. I try to move past it. And there have been relationships that I've moved past that I've I've cut out, and there have been people I've forgiven, and I hope that they grant me that same grace.
Dakota [:So what made you join the military?
Jenifer Grover [:We were expected to go into the military.
Kim [:Oh, what does that mean?
Jenifer Grover [:It means we didn't have money for college, and my family is very, very patriotic. In each generation, there's always been military members. My adoptive father, the man that raised me, he was in the 82nd airborne during the Vietnam period. In fact, my oldest son is following his footsteps in the airborne. But and my uncles and all served at different times after the Vietnam War. But with my mother, it was like, you're going to go in. My sister is the one who actually joined first. Obviously, she's 5 years older.
Jenifer Grover [:So when Shannon was off, my mother got in her head that that meant I had to be in the navy. I actually did not wanna join the navy. I did not. I wanted to actually join the Marine Corps. That was my goal, but that didn't happen. My mother was a very force of nature, and it took me a while to learn to step out of that control and those boundaries and move on and do my own thing. But when I did join the Navy, I didn't take the path that she expected. I became a firefighter.
Jenifer Grover [:And so I was deployed 3 times and was on 3 different ships, and then I finished up my last at, shore command.
Kim [:Well, you actually have a really interesting story because you were pre
Jenifer Grover [:Mhmm.
Kim [:And post 911. So you said 3 deployments. Talk about those.
Jenifer Grover [:So this is kinda where it segues into that don't ask, don't tell policy. That was in the the big brunt of that was in in the pre 9 11 time frame in that military time frame. So, obviously, when I joined the military and I got into boot camp, it was the start, the very start. Clinton had just put in the don't ask, don't tell policy.
Kim [:And Jennifer, because our listeners might not know what the don't ask, don't tell. It was allowing gay and lesbian citizens to serve in the military as long as they did not make their sexual orientation public. Because then they were gonna do what they did in World War 2 and dismiss you from the military. Is that correct?
Jenifer Grover [:Yes. And not only could you not make it public, but if somebody happened to suggest it, somebody in command, then it could bring about a review and so forth.
Kim [:So how did you say undercover then?
Jenifer Grover [:First off, I actually ended up, and a lot of us did. And for a long time, it was not uncommon to have what they called a marriage of convenience, which means you married somebody for the convenience of it. Because if you were married, the comment couldn't be made, and they couldn't take legal action against you.
Kim [:Oh, that makes sense. Is that what you did?
Jenifer Grover [:That is. Well, the you know, we did have 3 kids together. My kids are amazing, and they're great and wonderful kids. The marriage and it was not by any stretch of the imagination a good marriage. The only joy I take from it is the fact that I have 3 beautiful amazing kids. That's my comfort in that whole marriage is the fact that I I had 3 amazing kids. But like I was saying, my first interaction with that don't ask, don't tell policy was set early. It was set.
Jenifer Grover [:Navy has a school, and the a school is where you go and you learn your your rate. Mine was damage controlman. And so in our barracks, you can have what we call fleet returnees, which are people who have been out in the fleet for a few years but didn't have a rate. They can come back and they can, what we call, strike a rake and then rate and then go to school. And so one of the ladies that I was in the barracks with effect, she was right next door to my room. She was gay, and she had a partner and they had kids. And she had to go through, I mean, every day because not only could they not be together, they weren't because she had just changed duty stations. The military didn't move your partner at that time.
Dakota [:Wow.
Jenifer Grover [:And so not only has did she come to to school and everything, but she wasn't gonna be able to take her partner with her to her next duty station. So you're talking about having a life that's not married. They've been together for years. They're raising a, I think, a boy and girl then having to leave all of that and just no matter what, it was by long distance at best. And she got to the point where she just couldn't go on anymore. And so they decided together to take the dishonorable discharge, which as we all know is just a
Kim [:Pure ignorance.
Jenifer Grover [:Yeah. And people don't understand what that dishonorable discharge was. It's not like today. You're stripped of everything, not just your rank and your career and all of that, but when you get out, you don't have any benefits. You get a bad conduct discharge. Even your right to bear arms is taken away.
Dakota [:What?
Jenifer Grover [:Yeah. So if you have a bad conduct discharge, it may have changed now because you have to fill out that form, and that form is on there. Do you have a bad conduct discharge? Usually, 99% of the time when you get a bad conduct discharge, it's for a crime, And so you lose everything.
Kim [:So they were looking at being gay or her homosexual like it was a crime.
Jenifer Grover [:Yeah. Anytime you get a bad conduct discharge, there was no differentiate bad conduct discharge because of homosexuality or criminal conduct. It's just a flat out bad conduct discharge. So you're losing everything and everything that you've worked for, especially as women and just being stripped from you. And that has always stuck out in my mind. So I was incredibly very careful.
Dakota [:I bet. That's scary.
Jenifer Grover [:Yeah. I didn't maintain. I had very few female friends. I gravitated to the guys and I just stayed with the guys. And when I say that, I don't mean I was dating them. I mean, I went out with them. So there would be no question. I usually went out with men who were married, who, you know, had great home life so that nobody would question that.
Dakota [:Yeah. That makes sense.
Jenifer Grover [:Then it came time to my first boat.
Kim [:What was your first boat?
Jenifer Grover [:My first boat was a USS Merrimack 80179, which is a oiler, which are now USNS, although that one's been decommissioned.
Kim [:And what do you do?
Jenifer Grover [:So I literally fought and maintained the shipboard firefighting systems and their chemical, biological, and radiological counterpoints or countermeasures. I fought a lot of fires. In fact, that I kind of parlay into the my last command. USS Cole was part of our battle group. So literally 11 months prior to September 11th, it was on October 11th to the day is when the cold was bombed. Coming out of Yemen, a, fast boat just ran right into her. I memory is correct. I think it was her port side.
Jenifer Grover [:I could be wrong on the side. And just literally blew up and ripped a huge hole in the side of her end. 12 sailors were taken on that day, and then everybody in the battle group was flown. They were pulling anybody and everybody because the fires are raging for days.
Dakota [:And so you were in charge of putting that fire out?
Jenifer Grover [:I wasn't in charge of it there yet because they were just rotating the stuff, but I was not in charge. I was Yeah. I was a little E 4. You know? I I I didn't have any rank on me. But yeah.
Dakota [:E fours are pretty powerful. They have a whole mafia. So
Jenifer Grover [:That is true. But, yeah, that was a bad day.
Kim [:And that was your last assignment?
Jenifer Grover [:That was my last boat. Yes. Not my last assignment, but my last boat.
Kim [:Your last boat. And you were on 3 of them?
Jenifer Grover [:Yes. So I was on in that instance, that was the USS Camden AOE 2, and she was also an oiler and equipment, so bombs and everything else were on her. And we were just the Texaco of the fleet. We would literally just basically, we pull up alongside a boat, refuel it out to sea, kinda like that you see them do with planes, but in the water. And then, you know, give them their supplies, their food, and their, ammunition. So Oilers had a pretty good we got all the fresh food and everything. Yeah. Pretty good.
Jenifer Grover [:So my first command is where I met my husband, the father of my kids. Because we started dating simply because that's the rumors started spreading. And my first class actually came and asked me my DC one. And at that time, when when they start doing that, you make sure to keep yourself covered.
Dakota [:Is that when you decided to marry him?
Jenifer Grover [:Yeah. Not my brightest decision, but yes. Well, I
Dakota [:mean, you had to do what you had to do at that time.
Jenifer Grover [:Yes. And he was not a good man. He still is not a good man. And so we were technically married together for 10 years, but we were only actually living together for a few, like, 4 out of our entire relationship. He decided to leave on Marie's 10th birthday. And then he moved to Nevada with a young lady who was our other shipmate's wife. And so and then they have another kid and and live in, Nevada. Not my finest pick of a person, but, you know
Kim [:Well, when you're quick picking, I mean, you know, you do what you have to do to keep yourself safe at the time. Exactly. Let's give you some we're giving you grace.
Jenifer Grover [:I did 3 tours. I did a med cruise, which other than the fact that that's where I met my first husband or my only husband, amazing. I love the Mediterranean cruise. I actually had other than that and the don't ask, don't tell policy, I love my military career. I had a good one. And there were a lot of traumatic events in it, like the call, the 911. And that's kinda where my PTSD stems from. Not necessarily the dead bodies and the fires and all that, although that does help it.
Jenifer Grover [:We don't talk about it much and that women get deployed and often we're moms when we get deployed. And it's kind of a stigma of the world has been very good about eliminating women from its militaries and its history. They just pull those out. Like, women never serve in combat, and we all know that that's wrong. You know, and, you know, moms never go to war. We know that's wrong, you know, and that's kind of where a good portion of my PTSD came from is is literally having to leave my children and deploy. And we were at a time of war and you're gone. You don't have and that was pre face pre this.
Jenifer Grover [:We didn't have this.
Dakota [:Mhmm.
Jenifer Grover [:You know? And so you're literally living on your next care package that may or may not have pictures of your kids in them. You know, you got them all taped to your rack just so you can you know, and then you you you start realizing that they've done their first steps. They, they've spoken. They've walked without you there. You, you, you miss all of that. You can't get to partake in that. You can't get those moments. They, they don't come back.
Jenifer Grover [:And so it's difficult when people or when you try to tell them that, you know, everybody thinks PTSD comes from combat. It doesn't. Yeah. I can remember when I first got diagnosed, I was in a restaurant and I was talking to my mother who knows her children went to war and, you know, and I told her I have that. And in her mind, women didn't because she just in the fifties, you know, women don't care. Why do you have it? You you weren't you didn't go to combat. You you didn't. I'm like, Willemas? And but when you look at that and you go, yeah, people who haven't been there and who haven't served and don't understand it.
Jenifer Grover [:They literally think that women just sit in an office and write the reports of what's going on them and and don't actually partake in it. So they don't understand what we went through. And it's hard to be in the military if you want.
Dakota [:Absolutely.
Kim [:So your first deployment because you you said you had 3 children. On your first deployment, how many kids did you have with them?
Jenifer Grover [:I didn't have him on my oldest son, Nathaniel. I didn't have him. He was born in 99, So I didn't have him yet on my my first deployment. So I came back and then I got shipped to the John f Kennedy. So we the John F. Kennedy that John F. Kennedy, not the new one being built. I guess there's a new one.
Jenifer Grover [:It was a training ship. So she only went out on very short couple week cruisers. It was so pilots could learn to land. I was pregnant on that boat and then before I deployed on the Camden, that was he was my first one to leave and he's the first one that I did miss all of those first with. Connor came after and I had him for some of his first, and then he and Nathaniel were with my mother. And then, Marie came on later.
Kim [:So how was it being pregnant in the military?
Jenifer Grover [:So at 5 months, you're supposed to be off the boat because it's the boat's an industrial. But, yeah, I was up on the boat until I was flown off at 5 months, and it was hell because you don't get a break. We all had kids. We know that just that hell and it was in July. Budge when I had him in Florida. Yeah. It was hot.
Dakota [:Oh, my And
Jenifer Grover [:yet there was no breaks. You know, I was expected to be at work on time no matter what. You know, no matter how sick I was, no matter it it didn't matter. And then even after he was born, it was only 6 weeks off. That was it. You had 6 weeks off and then you only had 3 months to get your body back in shape. And once you came back from that 6 yeah. You guys got big eyes.
Jenifer Grover [:Oh, okay. I only have 3 months to get my body back into gear to pass the PRT to get back onto the boat.
Dakota [:Wow. Was that realistic for you?
Jenifer Grover [:No. I did it, but, no, it it wasn't realistic. But I did it with all my the metal in my body that I have now. It's just like, holy fuck. Why? Why did I put myself through that hell? I mean Oh, yeah. You've and then I transferred over from there, I transferred over to Bremerton where the I met the Camden and I I joined that crew. And oddly enough, my ex husband I had a salvage ship out of Virginia that would have made my my military career. Keep in mind, my husband was not there for the kids' birth.
Jenifer Grover [:Okay? He took what is called I don't know if it's still called this now, but it used to be called an unaccompanied tour. It was a voluntary tour. So he decided that he wanted to be a crypto tech intelligence and he got it and he did the school. He ended up going to captain's master in the school, but that's beside the point. And so they gave him his choice of duty stations and he took he volunteered to take unaccompanied year tour in Greece. And so he forged my signature because your wife had to sign for you to take these tours. And I hadn't given birth yet. I was 8 months pregnant.
Jenifer Grover [:And so he did that. I'd had Nathaniel. My mother actually flew out so I would have somebody there when I gave birth to Nathaniel. I mean, I I had no one but my mother.
Kim [:So you had the physical distress. You had the emotional distress.
Jenifer Grover [:Mhmm.
Kim [:On top of already having a a baby, and now you're pregnant again.
Jenifer Grover [:Mhmm.
Kim [:And your husband just took a nice trip to Greece.
Jenifer Grover [:Yeah. He got to go to Greece for a year. He couldn't stay out of trouble in Greece either. He actually lost his clearance in Greece. But when they come home from a unaccompanied tour, they get their pick of duty stations. So he want he's from Washington. He wanted to go home. And so I got a call from his detailer, Detailer in the navy is the person who gives you your jobs and your boats and your commands.
Jenifer Grover [:When I got a call, I was at my friend's house in Jacksonville, Florida, and we shared a house there. And I just would drive to Mayport for my boat. But telling me that the orders that I had for a salvage ship, he took those off and he gave me the Camden out of Bremerton Naval Shipyard. And I was like, and he's like, yeah. Your husband is to take his duty stations, which means you get to go with him. And I'm like, I don't wanna go. And he was like, well, it's too late. I've already removed these orders, and that's where you're going now.
Jenifer Grover [:And so I immediately I got to Bremerton and then immediately deployed because my boat was deploying. So it was there was no downtime from that.
Dakota [:So what support did you have with raising the kids and, like, who would watch them while you went on deployment and stuff?
Jenifer Grover [:My mother. That was the only support I had. Yeah. When I was home, I had them. In fact, I was talking to my middle son the other day. We were video chatting, and now he's a marine. He's stationed in, Japan. And so we were talking, and I was like, do you that told me.
Jenifer Grover [:I was like, do you remember how many times that when you were sick or whatever, I took you to work with me because Jason wouldn't stay home with him. So I would just pack them to work with me. I was working at security at that time, and I would have him sitting in, you know, the security office with me or at the gate in the guard shack with me. And he would have, you know, they'd have to go both of them would have their little toys, and they just went with me, you know, even when I had to work Christmases and all that. If not, they and when I was deployed, they were at my mother's house.
Dakota [:Was there any support from, like, your chain of command or anything like that?
Jenifer Grover [:Not really. One of the Navy's oldest sayings is the kids do not are not Navy issued. They don't come in your seabag. Mhmm. I don't know if you guys have come across that, but that was a huge deal. Your your kids aren't part of your seabag. Like, when they got sick and somebody had to stay home with them, my middle son battled pneumonia a good portion of his toddler years. And, yeah, there was no support.
Jenifer Grover [:I could've gotten out, but if I got out, that meant we didn't have a paycheck coming in, and I outranked my husband. And that's where the medical care and all that came from. So it's kind of a catch 22.
Kim [:Yeah. So you just do what you have to do as a woman. You just did what you had to do, and you became accustomed to that lifestyle even though it was full of stress that you don't realize right then. I mean, you feel it then, but you don't have time to really take it all in. That's something you deal with later.
Jenifer Grover [:It is. And it's something I've been dealing with the last couple of years. In fact, my counselor has said we get stuck, especially military veterans and women. We get stuck in fight, flight, or freeze. And we stay in that for years and we don't get the opportunity to come out of it until we start realizing it. And for me, it was being coiled like a spring constantly. I couldn't unwind. I couldn't necessarily relax.
Jenifer Grover [:I had moments like camping and things like that, but I got out, you know, and I went to work. I've always been and then and now the predominant moneymaker. So I was always working. There were times when my ex was a stay at home husband, which meant I had 2 jobs. I went to work and I came home and I still made dinner, still put the kids down. I still did all that and all the housework and everything as well.
Dakota [:That was a lot for one person to live through and just handle and wow.
Jenifer Grover [:Yeah. I had to recently, and it's only been the last year, recently learned that it's, 1, okay to put me first and to take care of myself, but also to be incredibly proud of the person I was and built myself into. Yeah. It's not easy. I look at my my kids today. In fact, with both of the boys, they both joined the military. The military was not my first choice for my children, especially living in the the world we live in right now. And so with both of them, I thought, why do you want to do this? Why? There's so many other things for you to do, and they're both of their answers were because I was their hip.
Jenifer Grover [:Kids look at you with that old and go, mom, you're my hero. Or you did all of this without dad, without anything.
Dakota [:And That's beautiful.
Jenifer Grover [:That's what keeps pushing. So I did raise incredible kids. Like, I've ex described them. They can be a little not handy. They're in their twenties. We all know our twenties do not we don't make the greatest choices, but they really do have good hearts, and they are really trying to be good people. Even with my daughter who battles addiction, at least she's battling and trying. Someday she wins, someday she doesn't.
Kim [:Yeah. Well, you should be very proud of yourself. You did set the example for them. And isn't it interesting that for you, it was just survival? Like, you were just trying to survive day by day or actually, like, minute by minute. And these little kids that you made are like, oh my gosh. There's my mommy. There's my hero. That's just so beautiful.
Kim [:And, yes, you should take all the credit in the world. You did that by your strength and perseverance.
Jenifer Grover [:You know, I look back and, you know, we had really heard in lean times. I mean, you know and don't get me wrong. In particular, my sons can be assholes, but I can remember a time not too long ago when my knee was busted up badly and I was just on workmen's comp. Connor would go out. He'd go work with his youth pastor and do jobs around ranches and so forth for the congregation. And he would come home and he would they would have stopped at the store, Connor would get him his stuff, you know, like, you know, Mountain Dew or or whatever. And then he would come home, and then he would give his mother whatever he had left over so we can make sure we paid the bills because workman's comp is shit when you're on it. I mean, we lived off of less than, like, $1,000 a month with rent sometimes.
Kim [:Wow. And you made that happen too. You are a strong woman.
Jenifer Grover [:You just get to where you can't stop because if you stop, your kids are gonna suffer. And we may not have had everything, but they were happy for the most part. I mean, they got to play sports. They can all hunt. They can all face. They can all shoot.
Dakota [:That's important.
Jenifer Grover [:I can drop all 3 of them off in the middle of the woods, and they could find their way back.
Kim [:Well, I do have a question for you because, you were in the era where it was don't ask, don't tell, but then there was a reappeal on that where now the military is allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the armed forces?
Jenifer Grover [:Yes. I was at the George Strait concert with Chris Stapleton, little big town George Strait, and it it plays into this. Okay. So we're all in there. We're getting ready to go up, and my sister spotted the navy tent. They were recruiting at this concert. Okay? They had the young man who was there, my sister and I, we had to stop and talk to him. He was he was openly gay, and he was funny.
Jenifer Grover [:He was tattooed from every part of his body. And he he was just this cute young man, and I say cute because I'm in my forties, and he was obviously in his twenties. And he he was openly gay and he was just smiling and happy and he loved his navy career. I mean, his uniform was perfect and he was happy to be there. And so we walked away, and we're doing something else. And I went to go do something else. So the next thing I know, I felt a tap on my shoulder, and he had to come up and give me a hug. He said, because you let me be here.
Jenifer Grover [:Aw. I think that was probably if I was gonna culminate my Navy career to one moment, that would've been the moment is that somebody was able to come and say, because you sacrificed everything, I can be here. And so I hope that answers your question. Because that's just like that that friend I had in boot camp, that moment and that story that stuck with me, his story there will stick with me forever, is knowing that he saw that and he recognized it.
Kim [:You had to go through a lot of suffering to influence.
Jenifer Grover [:Yeah. I got through it and I attribute every ounce of getting through that and getting through everything that I've been through in my entire life to my foundation, which is my faith. If I didn't have that, I I don't think I'd be sitting here.
Dakota [:The question that we usually ask guests at the end of our interview is what advice would you have for women getting into the military?
Jenifer Grover [:Let your voice go. When people join the military, we get so inundated. And so in that brainwash to a certain extent, but everything has to be for the unit. Everything has to be for everybody That we lose self, that we lose our voice, and we start thinking that's okay. And it's not. You are a person. You have a voice. Yes.
Jenifer Grover [:We have to work as a team, but you have a voice, especially now where things like sexual assaults never went away. They're just now coming to the front, and it's still happening. Hazy is still happening. All this stuff is still happening. Like, like, is it Vanessa Gonzales, that, soldier? I mean, she disappeared, and they marked her AWOL without even trying to find her, and she was killed by a fellow soldier. That would be my thing is don't lose your voice. Constantly keep you.
Dakota [:I love that. I think that's that's really strong advice. Like you said, we do, I think, lose ourselves sometimes, especially in the military. Thank you for that.
Jenifer Grover [:Especially when throughout the United States history of the world, but United States in particular, women have been washed out of the military history books. I mean, we we have. So I think it's time that we start shouting that, you know, we were here. We still are here, and we do have a history and and we deserve to be heard.
Dakota [:Yeah. Oh, that gave me 2.
Kim [:Me too.
Jenifer Grover [:Occasionally, I have words of wisdom. Just don't tell my kids that, you know, if they they still think they're smarter than mom.
Kim [:Well, thank you so much for being on Dog Tag Diaries. Thank you for tuning into Dog Tag Diaries. We appreciate your willingness to listen and engage with these stories as we understand the challenge that comes with sharing and hearing them. Your support in witnessing the experience of our military women is invaluable. These stories are meant to inspire and provide meaning, and we hope they can help you find your own voice as well.
Dakota [:If you or anyone you know are in need of immediate help, call the crisis line by dialing 988, then press 1. There are resources available to help and provide guidance during difficult times. Please visit our website, www.reveilleandretreatproject.0 rg to learn more about the Reveille and Retreat Project, including upcoming retreats for military women and resources. The link is in the show notes. We'll be here again next Wednesday. Keep finding the hope, the healing, and the power in community.
