Tom Pepperdine interviews Temi Oh about her writing process. Temi discusses which books have really helped her with plotting; what she's learned from working in a TV writer's room, and how she coped with imposter syndrome when on a panel with Neil Gaiman.

You can find all of Temi's information on her website here: https://www.theonlytemioh.com/

And you can follow her on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/temi_oh

And view her Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/theonly_temioh/

You can also support this podcast here: https://ko-fi.com/therealwritingprocess

And you can find more information on our upcoming guests on the following links:

https://twitter.com/Therealwriting1

https://www.instagram.com/realwritingpro

https://www.facebook.com/therealwritingprocesspodcast

Hello and welcome to The Real Writing Process.

I'm your host, Tom Pepperdine.

And this episode, my guest is the writer, Temi Oh.

Now, I'm going to start this episode with telling you actually

how she became a guest on the show because Temi was a recommendation.

She was recommended to me, that I read her, by the wonderful science

fiction author, Emma Newman.

Former guest of the show.

Now, Emma, in my opinion, is one of the best science

fiction writers writing today.

So when she recommends someone, you take notice and my

expectations were pretty damn high.

Gotta be honest, Temi just blew me away.

Absolutely surpassed expectation.

Her debut novel, Do You Dream Of Terra Two?

It's just one of the greatest debuts I've ever read.

It's one of those books that I actually had to pause every

now and then just to process.

Like all the ideas and it's just phenomenal.

I was so impressed and blown away that I just went and started

following her on social media with a view to get on the show.

What I was not prepared for was Tammy to immediately follow me

back and tell me she's already a listener and fan of the show.

I just...

I've only at this point released 12 episodes and been

going for like three months.

So it just blows me away how many incredibly talented people are listeners.

And I'm talking about you.

Thank you very much.

Um, anyway.

So we secured the interview.

This is back in January of 2022.

And Temi's working on a second novel, she's working on a bunch of exciting

projects that haven't been announced.

So she can't tell me what they're called, but I know that they're big.

And your in the future listening to this, so they may have been announced

by the time you're listening.

Um, we discuss them on the show, but in the abstract, nothing's named.

So I have no idea what she's actually working on whereas

you, the listener, probably do.

So this is the interview before Temi got famous.

I have no doubt in my mind Temi gets famous.

And I have no doubt that you're listening because Temi's now become

the name that Temi deserves to be.

I'm just blown away I got to interview her when I did.

Anyway, enough of me waffling on my own.

Let's have some warm waffle and laughter with Temi herself.

Hello again, and I'm very pleased to say that my guest joining me today is Temi Oh.

Hello, Temi.

Hi.

Hi.

And a little shy there.

It's alright.

we'll coax you out.

(laughs) Maybe I wasn't close enough to the camera.

No, no, that's fine.

My first question as always is what are we drinking?

Uh, matcha tea right now.

Yeah.

I like mine with lots of milk and sugar.

I've heard that that's like the way that you shouldn't drink

it, if you really love matcha.

Yeah.

I think that's the same with a lot of hot drinks.

It's like milky sugary tea.

I actually realized the thing that I like to taste of is something that tastes

a little bit like a sweet milkshake.

So if you can make my coffee taste as much like a milkshake

as possible, that's what I want.

And it's the same with my match.

So maybe I actually just liked the taste of milk and sugar?

I actually, I must confess my wife loves matcha so much that I got

her to make this for me this morning.

It does taste like a warm milkshake.

So she made it spot on.

Nice.

She's doing it the right way.

And we've got a milk frother as well, so she's like, I'll

make an extra frothy for you.

That's the best.

Yeah.

You've leveled up.

As soon as I got it, a milk frother.

So is this your, is this a comfort drink for you?

Is this what you like to drink when writing?

So I actually love coffee.

Since I was like well, yeah, like 18, 19.

I had this ritual of as soon as I finished my coffee after work.

So now whenever I sit down, I feel like I have to be drinking something.

And I guess it's just my habit of finish my coffee and then I'll focus.

But I got COVID around Christmas time and suddenly my coffee tasted, like I dunno

like petrol, just like really horrible.

Uh, yeah, because people say that you're taste changes.

And the only thing I noticed was that coffee tasted bad to me, which was sad.

But my mother-in-law had given me some matcha for Christmas and I just,

I don't know, I had it a couple of times and just felt like it tasted

like pond water, but then I added lots of milk and sugar and was like, this

is the delicious, comforting drink.

And what I like is that from what I've read, the caffeine released is a bit

slower, so you don't get very jittery.

You just feel alert like a long time instead of having

a, like a burst of caffeine.

Especially, since I drink so much of it, I'm just, I'm going to try

and drink more matcha than coffee.

Yeah.

So what's your current matcha:coffee ratio on a day-to-day, how many cups?

Oh at the moment I have maybe three or four cups of just matcha.

I've made the transition.

But if I go to a coffee store to work, I'll have a coffee.

Yeah.

Especially because several times I said, do you have matcha?

And they look at me like, okay, princess.

(laughs)

It's my small town vibes, I just assumed London, it's all like that.

It's all sort of 12 different milk varieties.

So do you prefer to write at home because on your Instagram you've been

posting about your writing cupboard.

Has that, does that feel like your creative space now?

Or do you still like going out when you can?

Yeah, I actually, I think this is a lockdown thing, cause I used

to love working in coffee stores.

Actually my favorite places are coffee stores that are in bookstores.

So like the one in Piccadilly, the Waterstones there I really like.

The top floor of Foyles on Charing Cross Road are all places

that like I work pretty often.

And then obviously like during lockdown I couldn't do it and then we moved house.

So I was just trying to find ways to be productive.

I was working in this area right now, which is our living room kitchen.

Um, but the thing is, I don't know, I just feel like there's

just so many distractions.

I'll just look at the kitchen counter and think, oh, (dog

barks) there's a chore to do.

And there's a pluto.

And there's a dog, yeah.

I might just put her outside, otherwise she'll keep distracting the interview.

Okay.

Pluto i s a small Jack Russell crossed with a Poodle.

Absolutely adorable.

It was my insistence that she stayed in the room and it's come back to bite me.

Sorry.

That's okay.

Yeah.

So yeah.

So yes, it's distracting and we've proven that.

(laughs)

I know, on cue (laughs).

Um, yeah so, um, when we moved, we had this cupboard under the stairs and I'd

spent ages figuring out where would be the best place to work where had good light.

And then I dunno, yeah, in the end I just chose the cupboard because I figured

it's like the one space in the house that doesn't have to be anything else.

Like I have a desk in my bedroom.

It's also my bedroom.

This is the London flat, so everything has to be something um, whereas

this covered under the stairs, it could just be the writing space.

So I made it really like maximalist and gorgeous.

I don't know if I like to post it on Instagram because I'm so proud of it.

I will put a link to the instagram on the podcast.

And I think on Twitter, we might do a shot of the space as well.

Yeah.

I covered the walls in wallpaper, I got from paper chase.

Not wallpaper, sorry, wrapping paper.

Oh the wrapping paper, yeah.

Yeah, because you it's kind of not really worth the investment of

wallpaper because it's such a small space.

So just have like really super floral wallpaper and then stuck

lights all around the walls.

So it feels like a dressing room of a singer.

Yeah, and then I also have a bunch, like a lot of whiteboards on the walls.

So I'll write notes to myself.

I'll write how many hours I've done that day or different projects I'm

working on and things like that.

But it's quite a small space, but I like to think it's a bit like the

cockpit of a space station or something.

And I think the great thing about it is because it really can't be anything else.

It's just as soon as I sit down, I feel focused.

If there's something in the house that I'm like, oh, I should do this before I write.

I think if I close the door, it will be there in an hour, whatever

it is that I think I need to do.

And now that even though now I can work in coffee stores, I've just got into the

habit of I sit in the cupboard, I focus.

It's like a bit too uncomfortable to ever relax or procrastinate in..

There's only like a tiny corner where I can put like one coffee

mug, so it doesn't get messy.

So now I'm wondering, have I just now, I've just trained myself to be

this windowless cupboard creature.

Cause I find it hard to focus anywhere else now.

(laughs)

I think a lot of people will probably be quite envious of that because it

is almost like sensory depriv ation, just cutting off all distractions.

And I know some people like to write with soundtracks and thematic music

to get them in the head space where other people need absolute silence.

And so I think having a small space where you can deaden the outside world.

Especially if you're writing non contemporary fiction.

So your first book being scifi, anything speculative where you have

an element of world-building, you can just enter into that world.

And that's actually me casually leaning into my next question of with

your projects that you're working on now, did you start with a character

in mind, a scenario, or was there a world that you wanted to build?

Yeah, oh it's hard to answer that.

Talk about the things that I'm doing now.

So yeah, I was like in the like final editing phase of book two and then

during lockdown, I just started, I started working on a couple of other

projects, so I've made a short film, which will be finished in April.

I'm so excited about it.

It's from a short story that I wrote.

And from that I've been like doing some other TV work.

And I've been, so I've been like writing a lot of things in other people's worlds.

So that's where the world and the character does exist.

So you have to try and think of the way in.

Oh yeah.

Let's break that down a bit, because yeah, I had no idea.

Now it's just okay, we've got few things we can definitely talk about.

So after, Do You Dream of Terra Two comes out, at the time it's released your still

working on the second, your second book.

Did that second book's project start before the TV script work?

Or were they kind of in parallel?

Yeah, so I've been working on book two, basically since a little bit before

Terra Two came out onto the shelves.

It's just been, it takes me a very long time to write novels, which I

maybe I'm just going to accept and try and write other things faster.

Back to your other question about, do you start with characters, I actually

feel like with novels cause Terra Two I've written like one or two unpublished

novels before Terra Two as well, so yeah.

And this one as well.

So I I think I go into it asking some questions of myself and life.

So like with Terra Two, it was a lot about growing up and I was thinking about how,

cause the characters they turn 18 and then they leave everything behind and they

leave the whole of all of Earth behind.

I think I was thinking about how you lose things, sort of every stage of growing up.

And how do you balance the kind of grief that like, I'll never be a

child again, and I'll never like, have the same relationship as I did

when I was young with my parents.

Or I'll never live with my parents, maybe.

Although I'm a Millennial, maybe I will.

Like how do you balance, like the grief with I suppose like the

hopefulness, the things that you gain.

And then also, I guess for a long time when I was writing

it, I was quite depressed.

And like a lot of novel it was saying, I don't know, they're on

this journey and they suffer a lot on the journey and a lot of them

are asking, what's the point of it?

What's the point of continuing persevering on this journey when

we know we will keep suffering?

So I I think the reason it takes me a long time it's because I don't have the answer.

I, I write the book and I sort of like live life and then write a bit more and

think about it and have it in my head for a while until I feel like I'm far enough

away from the person who started the book that I can say something to that person.

Yeah.

By the time I get to the end of the book.

Yeah.

Now, I must admit when reading it I took breaks and sometimes my

wife was just like, are you okay?

It's it's a quite philosophical book.

I'm just having to just mull this over for a bit.

Or it's getting really dark.

I'm not sure everyone's going to be okay.

I need to just walk away.

But yeah, it's interesting to hear, you know, I had that as a reader of

just, gosh, what they're asking of themselves is really interesting.

I'm going to stop and actually go away.

And that's exactly what you had as a writer in that just,

that's quite interesting to me.

And so with your second book that you're editing at the moment, are

you posing, obviously not the same questions, but are you posing questions

about life to yourself that you're working through with the characters?

Or is it a different style?

Yeah, I would say it's a similar thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And also it's funny cause the books end up overlapping as well.

So like when I started this one like I just got married and a lot of what I

was thinking about was like identity.

Like how when you get married you become a joint person in a way.

I feel like whenever my husband leaves a little while, I have to remember

the person I was when he wasn't there.

Like what did I eat then?

(laughs)

Yeah, I got married in 2020.

So yeah, it was a pandemic wedding as well.

And we've only been in our house for a year.

And so there is that our mannerisms are merging and, you know, we were

just picking up habits off each other.

I was like, oh my goodness we're becoming the same person.

Yeah.

Or even things like his brother will tell me a story from their childhood and

I'll realize I've heard it so many times.

I almost remember it.

And I'm like, that's not how I remember it.

I'm thinking a lot about that yeah, but yeah, there's this technology that kind

of merges identity in a sort of way.

So yeah.

It's not in the same universe as the first book, it's a completely standalone?

Yeah.

But, what I found really interesting with your book, rather

than just setting it in a future from us, it was contemporary to us, but

in a different universe where Britain was involved in the space race.

And I just found that was an amazing take.

Is that a similar thing with your latest book, that is like an

alternate universe, but contemporary?

Yeah.

I think I had a lot of fun doing that with Terra Two.

I'm just taking the bits that I liked, but trying to keep it as familiar as possible.

So I'm thinking that maybe that might be a thing I keep doing, like

for as long as it fits the story.

Yeah.

I thought it was really interesting because often people say

with speculative fiction, it is very much a commentary on where we are now.

And if you set it somewhere in the future, you're always going to get things wrong.

But if you said it in an alternative world it's like, it's an alternative universe.

You know, the 2012 Olympics were still in London.

The 2008 recession still happened, but we're on Mars and the UK space

agency are sending people to another planet and it's just, it's 2020.

I just yeah, I think that's a great approach.

It's not something that, well, It's certainly not a common trope.

It's you know, I wouldn't even say it's a trope.

And so I, I liked that fresh take.

I, I'm sure there's people listening who are screaming other authors who

do it, and it's great that other authors do it, but it's not so common.

Cause it's certainly not something that you see in popular culture.

He says just as he remembers the Marvel metaverse, but we'll ignore that.

No one pays attention to that.

It's even funnier now though because it really is the past.

Like 2012 feels so long ago.

So yeah, I guess like the more people read it, like the older it'll, it might

start to have a retro Sci-fi feel.

I, yeah, I just, I think um, parallel universes, it's not being

the central theme to the book.

It just happens to be set in a parallel universe is really cool.

Is there anything like technology or something that was really different

that you wanted to add to the world that's not a plot spoiler that you want

to talk about with the second book?

No, it is a plot spoiler.

Yeah because it does centre around the technology.

So if I tell yeah, I can share, you can invite me back when it comes out.

Yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

In the abstract then how did your research go into technology?

Do you look into engineering articles and where we are technically now to

formulate that, or is it based more on just sci-fi fiction that you've read

and you wanted have a tweak on something that you've read in something else.

How do you go about developing it?

I actually find, if you try and invent some technology, you'll like,

you'll Google it and find scientists in Japan have done something that's more

advanced than what you've even thought of.

So I actually don't even try and make it futuristic.

It's not, I normally take something that some scientists has done and

then just extrapolate it to, okay, here's a world where it's really

easy to do and everyone does it.

Yeah, I don't, yeah, I did the same kind of with Terra Two with

the engine that the ship runs on, use things that already exist.

And with your world-building, are you someone who likes to

really plan out the world?

So you know how everything runs in that world and your story is just a part of it.

Or is it very much, your story takes precedence and then little bits of the

world are created just to serve the story.

Cause I know some people do have these expansive worlds that they've been

set their stories part of, but they really know like the politics and how

everything works within that world.

Yeah, I really admire those writers who do that.

That's just not the, yeah, that isn't the way that I go.

But then I think if I did a little bit more thinking ahead and planning out

the world, I might fall into fewer plot problems when it comes to redrafting.

But I only ever think about, as far as my characters are interacting

with the world, then I'll invent it.

But I don't think further than that.

And so I gathered from that as well that you don't plan

a full outline of the story.

I do outline.

I'm actually, yeah, I'm pretty serious when it comes to outlining.

But then I'll, I don't know, I th a lot of the problems I do fall into

are I'll go backwards and say, why did the police react this way to

this technology when they already know it exists, that kind of thing.

But yeah, I know I always have an outliner.

I, yeah, I outline pretty in detail.

And then with every draft I'll re-outline, yeah.

Yeah, one thing I really enjoy doing is I like reading like The Hero's Journey.

There's this one by Christopher Vogler and there are a couple of others.

Screenwriters are really like on it with the outlining, in

comparison to novel writing.

So every time I'm going to do another draft, I'll look at all the problems,

that say like my editor has flagged, and then I'll also just try and diagnose

weaknesses and then figure out where each of the beats hits I don't know,

the hero's journey or something.

And then rewrite it according to that.

I have read book and I think it's a very good book.

And I think anyone who um, certainly wants a cinematic style or feels that

their stories are quite cinematic or want to write films, it's worth checking out.

Yeah, that one.

And also this one that I read when I was doing my masters, cause I did

the master's in creative writing.

Seven Basic Plots, which I actually feel like was the one, if I can name

one book that like changed what I think about what I'm doing, I'd say that one.

Seven Basic Plots by Christopher Booker, where he basically says that every story

in the world is actually just seven different stories, which I think certain

people find like heretical thought.

But actually just really gave me a lot of peace as a writer.

It made me think that like what I'm trying to do isn't reinvent the wheel.

That's not why we tell stories and that's not why we enjoy them.

There are actually things that we like to hear again and again.

Like we like to hear about the hero coming back from the dead.

And so made me think that I'm just part of that tradition.

And I think it gave me a lot of peace and especially as a science fiction writer

where you spend a lot of time going, how can I make a different and new?

Actually no, that's not my job.

I'm just part of it.

I think a lot of writing, especially speculative fiction is

it's commenting either on an aspect of society or on the human condition.

And I think that with Do You Dream Of Terra Two, it's very

much the human condition.

And like you were saying is like coming of age story, these 18 year olds.

What I found fascinating with it was you have a variety of different

backgrounds of these children, but they found very identifiable as I've

met those kinds of people or even, gosh, I used to feel like that.

And I know that a certain element of it will be these are all like

bits of my own childhood that I've filtered into different characters,

but did you actually do any kind of personality studies in that?

Because I felt that they were so identifiable.

And their backgrounds really informed those characters.

And I was like, is that just your natural skill as an empathetic

person to identify people like that?

Or did you actually do any research into personality types?

Um, no I wouldn't say it that I did.

I think I did begin by thinking, I want to make them as different

from each other as possible.

So that I can have like maximum conflict.

So then I'd think, okay, so I have this character, he believes

that the mission is this.

Why would they believe that?

And so I kind of work backwards and think, okay, maybe they come from this kind of

a background and they have this kind of history or this kind of trauma, and that

gives them this sort of motivating belief.

And then I'd sometimes I do an edit where I just do the chapters

that have a certain character.

And then all the way through, I'd imagine this character as the main character,

because that's how everyone feels.

That was one of the things that really blew me away was how there were

these fully fledged character arcs for seemingly everyone on the crew.

And it was just you don't get to see that.

You're generally you're following through one person sets of eyes.

But everyone, they had all changed by the end and there's definitely

learnings about themselves.

And that was just really impressive to me.

So is that with the second book, is there more than one point of view?

Yeah.

I mean, I don't know how much I can say!

I'm trying to ask in the abstract

There are two points of view in my second book.

Okay, so that's less.

That's less than the first book.

Fewer.

Yeah, yeah.

I think I probably that's that's another thing I do enjoy about fiction.

I really like it when I feel like I'm in one person's head and from their

head, I can see how they're totally justified and really they're the hero.

And I'm in another person's point of view and I'm like, no, actually

they're actually villainous.

And maybe mean, yeah.

But why they are like that.

And why in their own heads they don't see themselves as a villain.

Cause the best written villains are the hero in their own story.

They've just gone down a different path.

And I think you achieved that.

That was really good.

So I'm really looking forward to your second book.

That's an experience you can get in fiction that you don't get in real life,

just being in lots of people's heads.

Yeah.

To get you that not stressing about book spoilers, I'm going to get you

to stress about a script spoilers.

How was the transition from writing long form prose fiction to scripts?

Because it's a very different discipline.

Yeah, I feel like maybe I will get in trouble for this, but I also aware

I've had enough experience, but I have found novel writing definitely harder.

I think it's because in a novel, everything relies on you.

You do the lighting and the costumes and you have to explain everything

about the characters in a life.

Whereas with a script, it relies on the talent of so many other people.

You're just writing a recipe, is my feeling.

There are like skills that are translatable.

You definitely need to have an understanding of

pacing and character arcs.

And then there are things that you can't rely on in a script, like in a story,

I could have someone walking down the road and a thought occurs to them.

Whereas, you can't really rely on that.

Show don't tell.

Yeah.

So with these, cause you've done a short film, which is

based on your own short story.

So you adapted your own short story.

Did you find with that adaptation it was just like, oh yeah, there's a lot

of introspective thought process that I need to change or was it when you

wrote the short story, the reason that you adapted that particular short story

was because it was far more external?

Yeah, I think as a writer, I don't actually write a lot of dialogue.

I feel like now I can recognize like script writers who write novels.

There's is one that I really just recently read that I really enjoyed

called Lights Out in Lincolnwood.

And the dialogue is so snappy and good.

And then I was reading about the author and he also writes scripts.

Whereas I don't think my dialogue, I dunno.

I think a lot of my characters sound like each other and they all sound like me.

So yeah, that's definitely something I've had to learn about while writing a script.

Yeah.

So I know some writers they'll think of certain actors

performing certain roles.

And so you have that individual's mannerisms.

Oh that's actually a good idea.

Yeah.

I might take that.

Yeah.

I don't know who it is, so I'll claim it.

Yeah but I'm pretty sure it's a, it's done by a lot of people.

But yeah, if you just think, okay, who would play this person?

If this was going to be a movie, who would I want to play this?

Okay.

See them in interviews.

And because sometimes you get that with certain screenplays where they go, oh,

I wrote it I had this actor in mind.

And I think there probably some times where they go, I had this

actor in mind, they said no.

So we had to find someone else.

But yeah, when you said earlier about, you know, writing a recipe,

there's multiple people involved.

Is it a much more collaborative process going through the scripts and are

you collaborating with the director, a producer and who's giving you the

feedback on the drafts of the scripts?

Yeah, definitely.

That's actually like the difference that I was not prepared for, because like with a

novel it's just one or two people really.

It's like you and your editor.

And then lots of times the editor is yeah, they're trying

to just distilling your voice.

So it's just oh, grammatically, you might want to change this.

Or you've said "then" a thousand times in this chapter, but it's still your

voice and a good editor should be just making you the best version of you.

Scripts are not like that.

Yeah.

And also there are lots of different considerations.

Like I wrote a scene set in a school and the director was like,

it's COVID we can't do a school.

No.

Or I'd have, I dunno, a crowd scene.

They'd be like it's just too expensive.

No.

And it's just I guess there are lots of considerations that aren't story reasons.

Like with a novel, because you have like unlimited budget, you can set it in

space, you can set it in your bedroom, but yeah, it's not like that with a script.

So I think like learning to incorporate things that are not about

it being a story, it's technical.

It's interesting.

And also just doing lots of drafts.

I do lots of drafts on my own.

I think that's that is my process.

Before anyone sees anything, I'd probably rewritten it four or five times.

But, yeah, but I don't know in script world, it's just expected

to do so many drafts yeah.

And is that an ongoing, so is that one particular writing

project and we don't need to name it, but are you working with

I think I can talk about that one.

That one's not a secret.

Yeah, it's a short film called Murmur, which is directed by Simon Smith

who was a, an editor on Chernobyl.

Yeah.

I'm very proud of it.

It's beautiful.

I can't wait till it comes out.

And it comes out in April?

No, It will be finished in April.

So sometime, sometime this year, though.

Okay.

And with other script-based projects that you're working on, are you

working on a longer project?

Or is it a creative team you're doing one script for, another creative

team you're doing another script for?

Yeah.

Yeah, so now I'm also doing an episode of a TV program.

So I'm on the, in the writers room for that.

And that's very fun to do.

I just really enjoying sort of like learning all of these

different ways of writing.

Yeah.

So with a writer's room.

So again, being as vague as possible.

Is this a new project or like in general, like you're part of the initial

writer's room or is this an ongoing show that you're being brought into and

there's a preestablished writer's room?

You're asking such specific questions!

It's a spinoff of a TV show that already exists.

Okay.

That's fine.

That's cool.

Like we're not putting any names.

We're not saying anyone else in the creative teams.

So people can't like do like a Guess Who whittling it down on IMDB.

It's okay.

So these are characters that are known to you.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then you get to put your own fresh take on it and it's

in a different environment.

If it's a spinoff, it'll be in a different environment.

That's quite exciting.

That's quite cool.

Yeah.

I am really enjoying that.

Yeah.

It's interesting.

Like it's fun not doing the sort of initial groundwork, like building

the character up from nothing.

But then still trying to, I don't know, I guess find a way into the story

that makes it feel like me still.

If that makes sense?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

So it was like bringing your life experiences to characters in the show.

How is it being in a room with other writers?

Is it competitive, sort of vying for space?

Is everyone really supportive of oh, let's develop that idea more or are they

like, oh no, I've got a better idea?

I mean, I've, I've heard that maybe there are some like competitive

writer's rooms, but I dunno, I, this one feels pretty collaborative.

Yeah, I'm finding it really fun.

I actually really wish that there was something like a

writer's room for my own novel.

Because like the showrunner will say, oh, he has a problem and then we can

just like work through solutions.

Cause you have five minds working on it and we'll get to solutions really quickly.

Whereas if I have a problem, I'll just sit there or go for a walk and

bite my nails and think I'm a terrible writer until a solution comes to me.

Is it quite time-intensive though?

I guess if it's a show that's on preestablished characters,

they probably got a mindset of when they want it released.

So are you working to quite tight deadlines on that?

And how's that from you've just got as long as you want to work on your own

work to we need something by Friday.

How has that change of gear been?

Yeah, I would say the deadlines are quite tight.

But I think because I don't know, there's just so much outlining and that we worked

out so many of the story beats together.

I feel like I write a lot faster than I do when I'm just writing on my own.

Yeah.

It's actually made me think if I could somehow use this efficiency

and put it in my writing.

It's made me think like maybe I'm not outlining enough.

Yeah.

I find the writing process a lot smoother so far.

And, this shouldn't be a spoiler, but I feel this will be a question that panics

you, when did you join the writers' room?

So how long have you been working in the writers room?

Was it before Christmas?

Yeah, before Christmas.

Sometime in 2021, okay.

I is that quite a lot of your time, because you're now a full-time

writer and congratulations for that.

Um, And is this a lot of your work I'm guessing the majority

of your time is writer room stuff compared to novel writing?

Or is it?

No, I would say novel writing still takes up a lot.

Takes on most of my time and most of my brain space.

Yeah.

Well, I think that's probably a good thing that you still get that time

to work on your own personal projects.

So that's nice to hear.

Cause sometimes, I hear people who take on a creative writing job to

pay the bills and things like that.

And then it takes all that creative energy and so that their own work could suffer or

they worry that their work could suffer.

So, that's not the case is lovely to hear.

But now that you've had this for a few months now, writers room aspect, have

you noticed a real change in the way that you're approaching your novel?

Cause you said you wish you had a writer's room you wish you had that efficiency.

Are you, have you had like a redraft where you've just a draft pre-writers'

room, draft post access to writer's room.

Was there a noticeable shift in how you approach the work.

Is there something conscious in that, that you started adding to your own work?

Um, So I've also and this is in the world, I wrote a short story

for a Black Panther Marvel anthology.

So that's another thing in another world.

I think it's, so it's just, it hasn't really changed practically

how my writing turns out, but it's changed my perspective on it.

I think before, when I was only working on my novel yeah, I get

hung up a lot with problems.

But now I feel just grateful for it.

Because it, it's just my world, they're just my character.

I'm doing it for me when it goes out in the world it will only have my name on it.

Yeah, I think it, it feels extra special to me now.

Yeah.

Is it the same editor that you heard on your first book?

No, it's a different editor, but still with Simon and Schuster.

Okay.

And have they challenged you in a different way or do they have a similar

approach and it was just availability on the editor or are they quite different?

Yeah, I find it all editors seem to be pretty different.

Yeah, because it's a mixture of, like their style and if you have the same

or like a similar vision for the book.

Yeah, but I've enjoyed working with both editors.

I'm very grateful for them.

And before working with Simon Schuster, have you had a

lot of experience with editors?

Are these really the only two editors that you've worked with?

I did do a master's in creative writing.

And the place that I did, maybe all places do this, where you have like workshops.

Where everyone there may be 20 people, they'll all read your

work and then give you edits.

So it's like having 20 different editors.

Plus, we'd have a different teacher every other week, like a different

professor, and they'd give you edits.

And then I'd write my dissertation, which is like chapters of a novel.

And then you'd get feedback on that.

So I feel like I had lots of experience with just getting feedback,

yeah, before I did Terra Two.

And then also my agent and another her assistant in the agency as well also give

me edits before we even got to an editor.

So I think like 20 or 30 different people had given me

edits before I go into an editor.

So how'd you find the editing process?

Is it that you crave the critical feedback and go, yes, I'm stuck.

I need someone in that.

Or is it how dare you?

I need to just go away, lick my wounds for a period of time before

going, you might have a point.

Cause I know some people hate the editing experience, but

appreciate the value of an editor.

And some people just go, I feel this is a pile of trash, please tell me it's not.

Or tell me how to get it better.

I am that person.

I feel like, I dunno, like my normal unedited, it's like the

equivalent of walking into party with like toilet paper on my shoe.

And like an editor will really kindly get rid of it for me.

And do you have beta readers?

Do you have people that just act as a reader without going

into the detail an editor would?

Yeah.

I have my friends and my husband.

I mean, I'm grateful for their time, but I always do wonder how

useful it is since they know you.

And they also know all the work that went into it.

With this novel, it sort sorta felt like I told them and told

them about this house I'm building.

And I spent three years going oh, I'm really worried about this house.

And like now they're visiting it.

And all I want to hear is it was worth everything.

It was worth the time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's fair, yeah, it's definitely a use.

It's definitely good to have those people.

I think it's my old sort of faithful that we always seem to go through,

and I think this definitely going to apply to you, imposter syndrome

and how you deal with that.

Cause I think if you're someone who feels that they're turning up to a party

with toilet paper on their shoe, you're someone who's had imposter syndrome?

I feel that's correct to say?

Yeah, I think, especially before book one was published.

So it was like, I think I signed with Simon & Schuster and it was about two

years till it was on the shelf, but yeah.

Which is like the longest time I've heard from other people.

So there was kind of, they started publicity like a year in, so there's like

a solid year where I'd go to interviews and panels and then people would say, and

everyone's book is in the shops except for Temi's, which you can get next year.

And also people would ask, they can only really ask vague questions.

Cause obviously no one had read it.

Yeah, I definitely, especially sitting next to authors who

were on like the five or six.

I think then I did feel a lot of imposter syndrome.

Yeah, I guess now, now in my house.

I dunno.

I don't have to feel imposter syndrom on Zoom (laughs)

Um, yeah.

Um, so I, I think I, I get it less, but I also have done, I've done fewer

events, so I can't really judge.

Yeah.

So is that what really triggers the imposter syndrome when

you're around other writers that you deem your peers and you feel?

I think sitting on a panel with other authors, especially

authors I admire, I always think by what trick of fate am I here?

Yeah.

I had this maybe it was two years ago now, Margaret Atwood's

book, The Testaments came out.

I was on a panel with Neil Gaiman, Jeanette Winterson, Elif Shafak and A.

M.

Homes (Shocked laughter)

I was like, I don't know.

I was pretty overwhelmed.

I was so overwhelmed seeing Neil Gaiman.

And obviously also like all the other authors, I'm such a big fan of.

And like, like leading up to it, I just spend ages saying, why did they choose me?

How did they choose?

And I remember sitting next to Neil Gaiman um, we're doing our signing.

And obviously he had a line going.

Oh his queue, yeah.

And he's also just so sweet and would talk to everyone and doodle little

pictures in their books and stuff.

And I am like newbie writer.

So had no one in my line, just pretending I was fine.

Just reading through Neverwhere again.

Every now and then someone would look at me, pityingly me

and say I'm not here for you.

I'm hoping he'll sign my book.

I don't know.

Do you want to say my, do you want to sign his book as well?

I'm not going to buy your book, but maybe you can write something in this book.

I ask people how they cope with imposter syndrome, it sounds

like you just avoid going out.

Just sit under the cupboard under the stairs and just forget about the world.

But is there a way that you have, now that you were coming to your second book,

now you've worked in writers' rooms.

Do you feel in a better place, as you say, you've got a house now, that you feel more

justified in your position as a writer?

Do you feel better able to combat imposter syndrome or is it an ongoing battle?

I dunno.

The thing I always tell myself is someone chose for me to be here.

So if you have questions, direct them at that person.

It wasn't a typo, they're they're not expecting an author called Remi Oh.

So that's what I always would, I always told myself.

I was telling myself when I was sitting next to Neil Gaiman, I was

like, someone chose this, so I'm glad.

And I think I get it less when people have read my book.

Because I feel like we're talking about something.

Yeah, but yeah, I don't know.

Yeah.

I guess everyone gets it.

And I, yeah, I think if it was Neil Gaiman, I remember reading

and I thought it might be one of his very lengthy introductions that

he does on his short story books.

But it was about, he was at a big event and he was stood at the

back with another man called Neil.

And they were just like why are we here?

I don't know.

It was just like, I just make stuff up for a living.

And he goes, yeah, I just did my mission.

I just, I just did what they told me and it was just like, so if Neil

Armstrong could have imposter syndrome, then I can have imposter syndrome.

And it's just, yeah, I think everyone can have, that's why they're being there.

Like you say you, you were picked.

And it's just remembering that.

This is what I was saying to one of my friends as well, who gets it in

her job where it's like, they hired you, so that's why you get to be there.

It's not about you and how you feel.

Yeah.

And another thing I want to talk to you about was I read an interview that

you feel very monogamous about your ideas.

That when writing a book, you're very much you're focused on that book because

sometimes you get writers who have a thousand and one ideas at any one time.

Now that you're working on various projects, how's that balance?

And now that you also, that you're coming to the end of a book that

you're editing, is it quite easy to sort of, okay, I'm in this room, I

can forget about the other things.

Or can you be in the writers room and go oh, I think I might use that?

No, no, no.

I find it hard.

I feel like this is my problem.

It's, I can only really focus and I need like a period of

time to focus on something.

So I can't even say, oh, in the morning oh I'll write this and

then the evening I'll do this.

I'll just have, I'll just say, when I get to the end of this script, then

I have to forget about everything else I'm writing while I write it.

And then I can go back to whatever else it was that I was writing.

Yeah.

I'm still like that.

I feel like I have like an antenna out for inspiration, but I can't

do that for like multiple projects.

I can only do it for one thing, so yeah.

Oh, that's interesting.

If you just go for a walk and you think, oh you know, an

idea might drop in your head.

It's almost like, an idea has to drop in your head, but I can

only attribute them to this one.

I feel it won't come for another thing.

I feel like I, I will say to the world, give me ideas please for the story.

And those are the only ones that come to me.

Okay.

So this is a walk for this project and then I'll go on another

walk for that other project.

Your dog gets about eight walks a day just working on various different projects.

And yeah, I was wondering you know, with you editing the second

book, if it's in its final stages.

Uh, have you got anything for after that, or is it just no, get this

done and then I'll start speculating?

Yeah.

And in between edits in like gaps between edits, ideas definitely come to me.

And oh, this is a fun process thing that I do enjoy doing.

So I like playing Sims 4 and I get like ideas for characters

and then I'll try and build them.

And I also like to build the homes of characters.

I guess it's my way of I'm technically procrastinating, but

I like to say I'm also working.

So I've had some ideas for characters for a book three.

I'm so excited to start working on it when I can.

That's good.

Is it just that it's currently in Sims 4 will be on the page soon.

So I'm going to go on to my final two questions.

And it's my belief that writers continue to grow and develop their

writing with each story they write.

Is there anything that you've learned from book one that you're now applying to

book two or something from the writers' room that you're very conscious that

you're applying to your second novel?

Yeah, I would definitely say with the writer's room, I really feel

like just the importance of outlining.

Like I thought I took it really seriously, but we map out every single beat and

I've just seen how much easier is.

Work out all the plot kinks before you've written 50,000 words,

and then you encounter them.

So that's definitely something that I'm thinking I'm going

to try and remember to do.

I think working on a script has probably made my dialogue better.

I always thought that I'm not a very funny person.

I think just because, especially with Terra Two, it's so sincere.

And my characters they don't really make that many jokes.

They just say what they think.

But I don't know, I feel like I've been quite funny in the script cause I think

like the IP is sort of light, so I, I dunno, I think I'm going to try and

take that confidence into my writing.

My characters can sometimes joke with each other.

From what I've gleaned from what you said about the book

two, where there's two people.

I think if it's a couple, either friends or romantically, and you're recently

married, then you've got those little intimacy jokes where it's not like a

standard person walks into a bar sort of joke, but it's just little quirks of

the human condition, the little tropes that people have that are quite funny.

And I think that's a very common thing of intimacy when you have two people

like really living close together.

And I think there's a lot of just natural humor and comedy

that can come out of that.

And I think if, yeah, there's a blending of people or personalities in your book

then I can see a lot of comedy in that.

Just like naturally coming up.

As well as trauma and conflict, but yeah, well, I look forward to it.

I really look forward to uh, funny Temi.

Obviously you've mentioned Christopher Vogler earlier, but is there one piece

of advice you find yourself returning to and applying to your own writing?

Oh now you've said the thing about Christopher Vogler.

It reminds me of the end of The Writer's Journey, he talks

about talks about shaman.

This might seem really grandiose, but this is what motivates me.

He talks about how the shaman has to go back from the dead and then

he comes back with something.

And it like helps his community.

And that, I don't know, I felt like it really motivated me

about what I do as a writer.

I think because you end up going into dark places, or you end up facing self

doubt or just like battling your ego.

And reading that kind of just told, I guess it just reminded me

why I think that it's worth it.

Because the world is richer for all of the art that people make.

And it's not going to be an easy journey.

But that's part of it and that's why it's valuable, whatever it is you bring back.

Yeah.

I think that's a beautiful thing to end on and I just like to thank you,

Tammy, for being my guest this week.

It's been great.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And that was the real writing process of Temi Oh.

Isn't she great.

If you haven't read her book yet, I demand you must.

It's one of my favorite science fiction books this year.

Temi is a talent and you need to read her now.

Of course, if you've listened to this episode, because you're already a fan

of Temi, then thank you for staying on for the post-interview ramble.

You may have heard a rumor I have an epic outro song and it's completely true.

However, it costs me a fair bit of money to license a theme tune.

So I hope you consider sponsoring the show.

I really don't want to put on ads for website building services

or subscription food and drink.

You deserve better than that.

But yeah, if you donate one pound or more, you get access to all the

brand new episodes weeks before they officially get published.

And I'm currently recording a bunch of bonus content, mini interviews

with authors I've met live events.

So if you'd like to support, the link is in the show notes and you

get access to all this extra stuff.

And that's everything for this week.

Stay safe.

Thanks for listening.

And may you always keep writing, until the world ends.