Launching season 7 of The Fire Inside Her, Diane Schroeder chats with Tiffany Green, a seasoned fire chief with 29 years of experience who shares her inspiring journey through the ranks of the Prince George's County Fire Department, where she became one of the few African American women to lead a fire department. Their conversation emphasizes the importance of self-care, resilience, and authentic leadership. They discuss Tiffany's approach as a leader, balancing work and family, and Tiffany's insights on breaking gender stereotypes in a male-dominated field. This episode shines a spotlight on resilience, the importance of mentorship, and the power of authenticity in leadership. Perfect for anyone interested in self-improvement, navigating life's challenges, diversity in the workplace, and the critical role of women in fire service.

Tiffany D. Green is a devoted wife, mother and resident of Prince George’s County. She enjoys spending quality time with family and friends. Living a life of service brings her ultimate joy.

As a 29-year veteran of the Fire Service, Chief Green holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Public Safety and a Master’s Degree in Emergency and Disaster Management. In March 1999, she became a career firefighter with the Prince George’s County Fire/EMS Department after serving as a volunteer firefighter for the Oxon Hill Volunteer Fire Department. On February 4, 2020, she became Prince George’s County’s thirteenth Fire Chief and the first female appointed to this position. Prior to this historic appointment, she served as the Chief Deputy. In her capacity as the Chief Deputy, she was responsible for the Administrative Services Command. Under this command, she managed the agency's Human Resources, Fiscal Affairs, Information Management, Risk Management and the Office of Service Excellence, Accreditation & Research. During her tenure, Fire Chief Green also served as the Director of the Fire/EMS Training and Leadership Academy where her primary obligation was to provide training and career development for over 900 sworn personnel and approximately 1,000 volunteer members of the department. She also managed the High School Fire Science (Cadet) Program, designed for high school students who are interested in working in the Fire Services profession.

Prior to her Command Staff experience, Chief Green served in a wide array of agency roles: Fire Fighter, Paramedic, Station Commander, Battalion Chief, Executive Assistant to the Public Safety Director, Chief of Staff for the Director of Homeland Security, Special Events Coordinator and Stadium Commander for FedEx Field.

To her success, Chief Green strongly credits hard work, preparation and commitment. She is most sought after in the areas of project management, community partnerships and emergency preparedness.

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Yoga is one of my favorite forms of self care. For 60 minutes, a few times a week, I am committed to breathing on my mat and forming my body into beautiful shapes. Yoga has made me stronger and calmer, which makes sense. The unintended consequence of showing up for my yoga practice over the last 6 years is that I'm more flexible mentally and physically, and that is the self care tool I am offering you today, stretching. Stretching your body, your mind, and your comfort zone. Becoming more flexible is good for body, mind, and spirit. How? When you stretch your muscles, you reduce your injury risk and you move energy. Plus, stretching just feels good.

Stretching your mind keeps you from having a fixed mindset. It keeps you curious and it helps you avoid getting stuck in limiting beliefs and patterns. Stretching your comfort zone challenges you to grow, crush your goals, and make big leaps in life. If you're curious about other self care tools and wisdom, be sure you get on the list for my mostly regular newsletters at the Fire inside her dot com list. And if you are already on the list, thank you so much for being part of this community. And don't forget to share with at least 3 people that you think should be here. Welcome to The Fire Inside Her, a brave space to share stories of navigating life transitions with authenticity, using our inner fire to light the way, and self care as our loyal travel companion. I'm your host, Diane Schroeder, and I'm so grateful you are here.

This week, I had the privilege of speaking with Fire Chief Tiffany D. Green. Chief Green is a devoted wife, mother, and resident of Prince George's County in Maryland. She enjoys spending quality time with her family and friends, and living a life of service brings her ultimate joy. She shares her journey in the fire service over the last 29 years and highlights the significance of authentic leadership, setting boundaries, and challenging gender stereotypes in male dominated professions. We also touch on the unique challenges of balancing motherhood with a demanding career and the importance of creating supportive working environments for all members of the fire service. And, of course, we talk about self care and what she does to keep her cup full. There were so many great moments in our conversation, but what really stood out to me is the importance of mentorship and the powerful shift your life can take when you see someone who looks like you in a leadership position and encourages you on your journey. I always say collaboration over competition.

It's time to drop the scarcity mindset and remember that all boats rise. Let's dive in. Alright. Hello, fiery souls. Today is another special treat because I get to sit down and chat with Chief Tiffany Green, who, by the way, is just a complete badass. I'll put all her information in the show notes, and she's gonna share some of her story. But, Chief, it's really exciting to have you here today. Thank you for joining us.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here as well and talk to you. You've done a phenomenal job in the podcast world, so it's great to be here.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I would love to know, to get this conversation started, what book are you currently reading, and do you have another book recommendation that off the you know, you absolutely recommend to everyone you run into?

K. So I'm currently reading The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, Not really by choice. I'm in a class because I'm a constant learner, so I'm in a class. That was one of the required readings for the month, but I'm actually enjoying the book. It's something that everyone can use, whether you are a CEO, a Fire Chief, or just a regular employee on the front lines. There's always something to get out of that book, So it's a great book. So Five Dysfunctions of a Team. If I could recommend a book, I like The Year of Yes by Shondra Rhymes.

It resonated with me as not only a female leader, but just as someone who traditionally always says, no. No. No. I don't have time for that. Or no. No. No. I can't do that.

She really tells a great story of just being completely open to yes and opportunities. And I took some of those things, and did some of the yeses a few years ago, and I'm still trying to embody some of the concepts in the book. So that's the one that I recommend to people all the time.

Thank you so much for sharing. Now Okay. Because you're a constant learner and based on the books you just recommended, I assume you read a lot of nonfiction and, you know, lifelong learning books, leadership books. Do you read anything that's fiction, just kind of brain candy, just kind of a palate cleanser?

So I'm reading The Foutth Wing. I don't know the author, but I read that one, and then I'm reading the other one. I've so I've already finished The Fourth Wing. So now I'm on the next one.

Iron Flame.

Iron Flame. Yep. So it it turned out, like, I I literally so here's my story. When I get on the plane, soon as I get in my seat, barely buckle my seat belt, I'm sleep out. Right? But I get this book, I got my Kindle, and I can't put it down. So I finished the first one, like, with one flight. It was a 6 hour flight. Finished it.

Now I'm like, okay, couldn't wait till the second one came out. So I'm trying to piecemeal it and not read it all in one setting. That's how good it is. Like, I'm like, okay. I gotta it's like a gift to myself on a plane. Like, so Tiff, I got a trip coming up. Wait. Wait.

Wait. Don't read another chapter. So that's kinda where I'm at, but I love the book, so it's great.

So I had COVID for the first time a couple months ago, and I was in bed. I was miserable, and the same thing happened. This book pops up. I'm like, oh, I'll read it. I couldn't stop. I I was obsessively reading it. And then I got to the end of the second, and I was like, alright. There's 5 books in the series, and they aren't out yet.

So

Yep. That's how they get you. Then you're stalking the website. Right?

I did a little stalking on the author. She lives here in Colorado, and I was like,

oh, man.

I'm obsessed. So then I started reading some of her other books, and I was Yeah. They're all delightful.

Okay. So then I'll read all the books. I need something else. It's almost like Game of Thrones when it ended, like, what's next?

I agree. Alright. Well, thank you for sharing that. And The next question that I wanna ask before we really dive into your story is, what are you most proud of right now at this moment in your life?

Well, since you're talking to the Fire Chief, let's talk about that. So I'm guess I'm most proud of being 13th Fire Chief of Prince George's County Fire Department. What's also important to bring up is that I'm an African American female Fire Chief. There's not very many of us. I was the 10th African American female Fire Chief in the world. Currently, right now, there's only 6 that are active. So that's, for me, is an accomplishment, and I'm very proud to represent that. So

Absolutely. That is fantastic. And thank you for representing, women in the fire service for African American women as I come from an indigenous population of the Cherokee Diane. So thank you for representing the underrepresented. That is such a great segue to hearing a little bit about your story. And so I would love to know how you got in the fire service almost 30 years ago and kind of what your journey led you to be achieved.

Yikes. 30 years ago. I feel like it was just yesterday. Right? People say that all the time, but, no, really, I do. So here's my story. So I grew up here in Prince George's County. Not born Her, but raised here, went to high school here, graduated from high school, went to GW University. And at that time, I thought I wanted to be a doctor.

I'm like, okay. You know, everybody wants to be the doctor. So I go down that track, and I'm at GW University, and one of the courses I was taking was an emergency medicine EMT course, and it required a ride along or an internship, you know, at a fire station. So So, of course, they assigned me to back to Prince George's County. So I'm like, okay. I'm gonna go to this fire station, and it was station 842 off of Marcy Avenue in Octon Hill, Maryland. And believe it or not, I lived probably about 15 minutes from there, but Her never been to that part of town or that station, didn't even know where it was. Her to call my mom, and she was like, let me drop you off.

Like, you you don't know where you're going. So I go there. I do the internship. I do the ride along, and I just developed a bug. I really liked it. I enjoyed the adrenaline that comes with the calls, helping people, being out in the community. Every call was different. You just couldn't predict The day, so I started volunteering.

Finished up my degree, went on, got a good old government job, but I continued to volunteer. At some point in my life, I just decided that I enjoyed what I was doing more volunteering than I was doing my day 9 to 5 job. So I transitioned from being a volunteer in March of 1999, not enrolled, but applied to Prince George's County Fire Department, CRS 29, and started my journey there. So that, of course, was a shocker, going from the volunteer aspect to the career aspect, but I think more importantly, for me, the biggest thing is, I think at that point, I realized I entered into kind of a male dominated profession. I had over a 100 people in my recruit class and there was probably maybe 6 women. You know, that's just where we were then in 1999 here in Prince George's County. So I started that journey, finished recruit school. It was challenging.

So finished recruit school, started now my career path. And for the 1st 4 years, just really was on the grind, enjoying being a recruit, enjoying being a part of my station, learning how to drive, doing all the things normal firefighters, paramedics do when they first get out. If I'm gonna be honest with you, didn't have any intention of doing anything else. I had a few mentors, and believe it or not, those mentors weren't women, Because, again, there wasn't a lot of female representation in that department. But I had a few males that were part of my circle. They kinda took me under their wing, and I remember The pulled us Inside. They said, Her. The lieutenant's process technician's process is coming up, and it's time for you to promote.

And I'll tell you my first response was Diane, no. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

I am perfectly comfortable where I'm at. Everybody likes me. I can drive. Like, I was in my niche. Like, I love this. Right? So I say, no. No. No.

I pushed back, and they pushed harder. No. This is your time. You gotta do it. And quite honestly, they saw something I didn't see. I didn't see any of the leadership traits that they say they they saw from the very beginning. I didn't see any of that. All I saw was I like my job, I enjoy being in the community, I enjoy my crew.

I wanna be good at my job, I wanna work hard. That's what I was doing every single day, but apparently, those are great leadership traits. So they saw that, and they pushed, and so I studied and took my Fire it was in this exam about 2004, and I came out number 1, which was also a shock of not only for the department, because I was the The female to come out number 1 on a promotional exam. I was the 1st African American female to come out on the top, but it was a, you know, a large process, and I wasn't expected to do that well. Just a little background, didn't have any history in the fire service. I didn't know anyone in the fire service. I kinda stumbled into this based on just the desire to serve. I enjoyed it.

None of the things that some of my my colleagues had, I didn't have Diane experience, I didn't have anyone to lean on. I just had the drive and determination to be my best, to commit to the process of studying, just really putting the work, because I always have had to work. Right? Had to work harder sometimes. I just put all of those things into the process and came out number 1. And then just as it would be, Murphy's Law, every 2 years as a promotion would come across, I would commit to the process again, and I would pass, and I would come out number 1. And I just kept going, and when you come out number 1, you promote pretty quickly. About the second exam, people started to say, okay. Wait a minute.

We we we see a pattern here. We gotta pay attention to her. She's moving up really fast. I attribute this to my faith in God. He opened up doors that I really didn't want him to open for me, like, you know, opportunities that would come up. And every 2 years, I would be comfortable where I was. I got, you know, comfortable with my crew. Of course, the 1st year as a lieutenant, getting back in the front seat of a fire truck, having all The pressure of everyone listening to your returns, and is she gonna be good enough, all those things.

I had a great crew, managed to get over that hump, and then it's the captain's hump. You gotta go through that one next. And can she now lead on a different level? Now I have a whole station. Now I have different responsibilities. But every time I came to the crossroad, I had a choice to move forward and grow or stay and be stagnant. And every single time, it wasn't easy, but I would have that gentle push from my mentors, like, come on. Keep going. Come on.

Here's the next test. You study again, get in the books, get it. And, I looked up and a few years went by, and I had worked pretty much at every command within our department. I had taken some details. I got an opportunity to work in the county executive's office as a special assistant to public safety director. I was in charge of special events. I had just progressed, And then I look up and then I'm the Chief Deputy. And like, what did the time fly? I'm the number 2.

Then I get the call that the county executive wants you to be the new the next Fire Chief, The she would be honored if you would serve under administration. And so February 2020, I was confirmed as the 13th Fire Chief, and that's how I got it.

Wow. That is a very cliff notes edition of your career, I'm sure. Thank you for sharing that. And what a time to take over the fire department in February 2020. It's just so impressive to hear you say that, and I love, you know, how your mentors were men. I I got hired in 2000 when I got hired, and it was similar. It was the the women that were higher up than me really weren't very nice, to be quite honest. It wasn't the all boats rise philosophy.

I feel it was more of the I had to pay my dues, you're gonna pay your dues type philosophy. Yes. And did you experience a little bit of that?

Absolutely. And that still exists today.

Oh, yes.

One of the assignments that I took, and I again, I have to say this. I didn't necessarily think I wanted to take that assignment. I wanted to do something else. God had another plan, and so did my mentors. I was able to be the director of training for a while. And the reason why I think I needed to go there is because I needed to kinda embody that of the things that I had happening when I was there, some of the things that I saw that just just didn't quite sit with me, and one of those things was that you gotta pay your dues. Well, why is that? So I made it my point to make sure that the academy staff, there was always a female representation on the drill field, that they understood very early on that, no, women may not have all the physical attribution strength that a male has. They have other talents and other skills, but they don't have to be viewed as if they can't carry the same amount of weight as a male, they can't do the job.

Like, we need to get out of that mindset. They need to work smarter, not harder. Like, we need you to figure that out, but they needed to be encouraged and shown that they could do the job. And the only way that they can do that is they can see someone. You can't be what you can't see. And I remember that for me, I struggled in the academy with throwing the 24 foot ladder. Like I mentioned before, I'm 5.3. Maybe on a good day, it's probably more like 5.2.

I surely struggled with it, and I remember they had a guest instructor that was down there that day. She was an adjunct instructor, and she comes over to me, and she's like, Tiffany, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm trying to get this ladder up. The is like I'm doing. And she's like, you're throwing it with your upper body strength. Like, that's all you got. And she's like, you gotta use some other assets. And she really meant assets. Right? And she was like, you gotta use your leg.

And she she took the ladder off my shoulder and literally showed me how to throw it. But just watching her take the time and to do it, I was like, alright. I got The. And I was able to just quickly figure it out and use, you know, some some other dynamics to get it up and was able to successfully do it. But Her she not been working that day? I could have been on that drill for all day struggling, and it may not have even passed, but her taking just that little bit of time. And so for me, it was important to put people in place that have the same mentor mentorship abilities to show women coming through the academy when just when our it's our first opportunity to make an impression on them. It's already a challenging enough career in the fire service. You're already running into burning buildings, risking your lives.

And then the other dynamics of our culture is you're in environments where you're not encouraged Diane you're not you're not empowered to be your, as you said, authentic self, right, as women. Diane to be successful, what better way than to start in the academy to show them that we have leaders within the department that embrace that culture. So that was important for me. I think the other pivotal thing for me is early on in my career, I also I went to a conference. I'll never forget this because I didn't go to a lot of conferences, but I went to 1. And I remember walking down the hall and I saw this lady, it's an African American female, and she had on a dress uniform. And I could see it from the from behind, and she had, you know, the the five stripes. And I remember looking like, who is that? That's a female with 5 stripes.

I don't know who who this is. I've never seen a female Fire Chief. So I ran down the hallway, and in my mind, she spun her hair around, like, you know, something dramatic, but she just turned around. Right? And so she introduced herself, and then she was her name was Rosemarie Cloud. She was the Fire African American female Fire Chief. And she introduced herself, and at the time, it was her assistant or captain or whatever it was, and her name was Toni Washington, who is now the Fire Chief in Decatur and one of my mentors, but she connected us, and she said, you will be a Fire Chief one day. And I remember laughing, like, literally, like, you're kidding. Right? I'm not even a lieutenant.

I'm just here because they made me come. I'm trying to figure out why where I belong here. And, she says, no, you could do it. And that was the first time I've ever seen or I'd ever seen a female Fire Chief. But if had I not gone to that conference, I would have never seen that, because it didn't exist here in Prince George's County, and no one was talking about how it could exist.

Mhmm. So that was

the other piece for me that's important.

That's a really beautiful story, and it does. It it is so important to set that culture. And I love that you were very intentional at training. And and how how did it impact the culture once you were able to go out to the Recruit Academy and start from day 1 Inside of trying to reprogram? You started with a clean slate to say, this is how it's gonna be. Do you see that impact ripple through your organization today?

So for me, I see it when I have female instructors coming back to the academy, wanting to be a part of that. I have female recruiters, and I I have people saying, I remember the academy. It wasn't as hard as people said it was gonna be, or lifelong friendships and bonds. And then the biggest thing is I started to see a lot of our male instructors embody the same culture and to start to say, it's it's it's not like it was in 1950s, 1960s. And just getting them to acknowledge that is a major accomplishment for the fire service. But to me, that was the biggest takeaway is, I guess, explaining to people that we're not changing the standards. We're not lowering them. We're not saying that we want we want extra things for women.

We're just saying, take away all the barriers that you've put in place against them succeeding. Like, level the playing field. And I I think that's that's what's going on now. This is what I'm seeing.

Absolutely. It's beautiful. And it's it's the definition of equity. You know? It's giving people the resources and the tools they need to be successful and removing the obstacles that really quite frankly don't need to be there anymore. And I love the the shift of Inside of fitting in, like, oh, you don't really fit in or this person doesn't fit in, Do they add value? And and what value do you bring to the organization, your team, your crew, with your perspective, with your background, with everything, and and what a beautiful way to increase diversity in an organization regardless of your I call it checkbox diversity because everyone has a story, and facilitating that belonging and really letting people be their genuine selves up front, I'm not sure if you wouldn't mind sharing. How was it for you in the beginning when you first got hired? Did you try to fit in and just be what they thought you should be? And at what point did you have that, oh, this is too much work. I'm just gonna be me.

I don't know if I ever just became me, but, in the very beginning, it it absolutely was. Beginning with a lot of pressure coming in, to 1999, a very busy department, very aggressive department, coming in as a as Thomas, a double minority, a woman, and an African American. Those were the pressures. Right? So, of course, the academy was tough. You had to fit in. You had to get it done. You had those situations where you weren't your authentic self. Like, you you just fit into the culture, whatever that is.

Then you find yourself on shifts and around people, and you just start to go along with whatever's whatever's happening, and as opposed to, you know, saying, no, I don't really agree with that. So you're kinda mute for your first few years, at least for me, I was. I didn't have a an opinion because, again, I wanted to come to The, I wanted to be the best, I wanted to be a part of my crew. And I remember one of the things my mentors were saying to me, early on. I'm like, well, everybody likes me, you know, I I love it here. They're like, no. They they really don't. I'm like, what's me? But I didn't I didn't realize it until I became a lieutenant, and I was giving a little bit of empowerment in order to kinda set some boundaries within my shift.

This is how we're going to treat people. This is how this is how we're gonna gonna divide shifts and and assignments, not just based on who you think is a better cook. It's gonna be divided equally amongst the crew. Like, I had that situation as a recruit. I was, you know, always made to cook, those type of things. I started to see the pushback. Right? And so you started to see some of the the cultural stigmatisms that are in the fire service. It's natural for people to assume just because I'm a woman, that's why I'm speaking up about it.

I'm speaking up because it's wrong. It's got nothing to do with me being a woman. I'm just one piece of the group. Like, there's several other groups that are completely, The don't have a voice, really. So, you know, that's kinda when I started to see it. So becoming my authentic self, I had to get the courage to do that. And for me, it came through promotions and and and actually kinda seeing the department on a broader spectrum, and getting out of that recruit's, you know, stigma. So that that was kinda how it happened for me.

Oh, I I love that. It's it's you start to see the forest through the trees and realizing that once you show up as your authentic self, you also give people permission to do the same. And it's like, oh, wow. Okay. So you really thought this way all the time? Me too. Cool. We don't have to do it this way. There is another way.

But imagine if one of my officers in the very beginning had that conversation with me as a recruit. Like, how much it would have changed my trajectory and and how I felt about my first few years in the fire service?

Absolutely. And I think for people listening who are in the fire service and who are in those, you know, first rungs of leadership lieutenants, listen to that. You know? Create that environment for your people and welcome them. Everyone we hire the best of the best, and so there's no reason to not treat them with respect and dignity even if they aren't the same.

Absolutely agree. Those are great points.

So let's shift gears a little bit because I'm really curious. You are a mother. Correct? Mhmm.

Yes.

I have one child, and I have a bonus son Her launched. And I was the Fire female to have a baby in my department in 2012, which seems like 2012. And and then I went through a really nasty divorce. I became a single mom on shift work blah blah blah. But how how do you do it? How how how has that journey been for you? Because there's not I don't know a lot of moms in the fire service and executive Chief officer levels. It it feels like that's just a it's a lot. So how have you navigated that?

So I tell people this all the time when they ask me, I didn't navigate it well, and I didn't do it by myself. I I learned this from reading someone else's book, but when I was excelling somewhere else, I wasn't doing well somewhere else. So a lot of times, when you see people who are really successful, they're not successful. My opinion, I haven't been successful in every single thing. So if I was at work, that means I wasn't at home. Something Mhmm. Had to give, and so I had a really good support system. But when I came through when I was coming through the department in the very earlier ages or or earlier times, my daughter was younger, so I was on shift work, so it was a lot of sacrifices there.

I too went through a pretty nasty divorce, so I was a single parent doing a certain point in my career. But I remember going to paramedic class. And for our department, in order to promote and to maintain actually maintain your job, you had to become a paramedic. So the paramedic class was in the evening. We had our normal shifts during the day, and then at night, you had your paramedic class 3 days a week Inside addition to your rotations with, you know, the hospitals, you know, all those things. And because it was a condition of our employment, it wasn't an option for me. And my daughter was young. I would say she was probably about 2.

She wasn't walking yet, so maybe, 2 and a half years old. And I can remember my mom calling me in the middle of class. My mom watched Her, my sister watched her, and she says, your daughter's walking. And I'm like, what? I'm in class, and she says, she's already walking. And I missed that. My daughter called my mom mom, which my mother enjoyed that, but I didn't initially. But then I I realized I had such a great support system, but because she spent a lot of time with them. So I always tell people there's a sacrifice in the story.

Me and my daughter have a very great relationship. I think she's been able to see from me that you can do anything that you wanna do, but it does require sacrifice and hard work. So there were times that I wasn't there. She was an avid cheerleader. Oh my god. Whoever brought that up and started me into that, I still curse you to this day. But she started cheering at 5, so it was nonstop. She was a flyer, so it was it was, you know, competitions all over the place, and it was just a lot to manage.

I remember those days, even in this seat now as a Fire Chief, because I wanna make sure that I'm creating spaces for people to be successful both at work and at home. And that's not always possible, especially with staffing challenges. You know, when people tell me they wanna go home, I truly get that. So that's been one of my biggest obstacles coming into to this as a Fire Chief and coming right out of COVID into a major staffing challenge. It's how do I get these people back home where they could be successful around their families. So it was a sacrifice. So it was it was a challenge. So I've always relied on my support system.

I have a team of people. Even now, I I don't call my, direct personnel my personnel employees. They're my team. I could not do this job without them. They are amazing. I try to make sure I tell them every single day. To me, any great leader, you're only as good as the people around you and the people that support you. And part of that is having someone on that team that'll tell you, one, you're doing too much.

They told me that all the time. Slow down too. Too many things on the calendar. We gotta weed this out. Or or they'll tell me when you could do a little bit more. Like, you you could push a little harder in that area. Yep. Yep.

We we we need to get out to the stations. Yep. We need to get in touch back in touch with where you need to be. So to me, team support and realizing that there's gonna be sacrifices.

Wow. That's I have goosebumps. Thank you for sharing that. It it puts a knot in my throat because I feel that on such a a deep level of the times I missed, and that was one of the reasons why I decided to leave was because I wanted to be here for my little guy who's not little anymore. He's 11, which he's aging me in dog years because this is a really challenging age.

It is. It is. I remember it. Holy Cow. I do. I do every day.

Deep breaths. I have mantra. And and just the the value of having people around you to be, you know, your push and pull, to hold both tensions for you, I that's just lovely. How do you take care of yourself? How do you find the time to prioritize taking care of you first so that you can serve your team and your organization and your community?

Oh, people love to say, got work-life balance. I did it. It's no such thing. It's bull. They sell it The tell you that they're lying. There's no such thing. 1 is always pulling against the other. So to me, it's I have to prioritize what's important at the moment.

And I'll tell you, with this job, it's it's Inside a busy department. We're running over a 170,000 calls a year, 45 fire stations, over a 1,000 career, and a 1,000 volunteer. It's busy. Yes, ma'am. It's busy. So being a workaholic is part of this if you wanna be good at it and you wanna be successful. But the other side of it is I have a great set of family and friends. I'm an avid spinner.

I got a Peloton. I'm on it all the time. I love it. Get my party on on the bike. So the workout aspects, that part of physical fitness part, that's a big part of of who I am, and it has to be. It's not even just staying in shape for myself. I I gotta retire at some point, but it gives you kind of that break from everything that's going on. I travel a lot.

Whenever I came with my family and friends, we go about 2 or 3 trips a year and have a great time. Now if I'm a 100% honest, I still take my phone and I still check my emails. I haven't gotten there yet. One of my mentors, Tony Washington, she'll say, put the phone down. I'm like, let me just make sure I clear my inbox first. So I still have that pressure, but, I still enjoy it. So it's just kinda setting the priorities for that time frame for me. The is a busy season for me with budget and all those things.

So right now, it's work work work. But June, I have a trip. We're going to Greece in June it's a mother things. I'm looking forward to that. I've been putting that time in place to spend time with my with my friends. And and my particular friends actually have no connections to the fire service, which makes it even hilarious because they have no idea what I'm talking about, nor do they care. They just know that I'm, as you said, a badass, and they they appreciate all of that, and they sow into me every single day. And then sometimes it's just a meme, it's a TikTok, it's hilarious.

Or they'll say Tiffany's gonna call you back, but she's not gonna call you back. You gotta call her back. You know, those type of things. They they get it, and they create balance for me, and I I truly appreciate every single one of them.

I wanna go back really quick about the work life balance because I agree with you, and I've I've said that for years. You have to have stability in your world, like, in your life. And I think especially post COVID, it's work life integration. How do you figure out how to balance and set those not even balance. How you set those boundaries that you can be focused at work when you're at work, home when you're at home, and know that it's just part of who you are. And I think for a long time, there was a lot of shaming around that. Like, oh, you need to totally disconnect. That's just not a reality, especially in emergency services.

But I think even just in general,

we we it's just not It's just shaming all the time.

I know. I'm like I'm like, let go of that. That's just, you know and it's easy to say that now. It's it's hard to, you know, release that because it's other people's stuff. Right? Like, that's that's their judgment.

And sometimes it's people's perception of of your environment. It's like, hey, I'm more relaxed when I don't have any anything in my inbox. I need to know that I've I've delegated it out. Now I can look at the Facebooks and the TikToks and sit at the pool. But when I first get on the cruise, the first thing I'm doing is getting the Wi Fi because I'm not comfortable if I don't have the ability for them to reach me. It's, oh, we should just completely disconnect, put your phone in the closet. Never. I'm never doing that.

That's not my version of relax. So so but sometimes it's a lot of shaming. It's a lot of, people putting the pressure on you for where they want you to be, and it goes right back to what you say all the time, being your authentic self. I know exactly who I am and what I need to be successful and what I need to do to relax, and I have that balance there in place. And that's really what it's about for me. So just saying, I hear you, but I'm okay.

I love The. And that takes a lot of courage, I think, and it also demonstrates who you are as a leader. And so that that would be my final you know, as we kinda wind this down, Tell me a little bit about your leadership philosophy. And I think I have a pretty good idea of it, but I don't wanna take your inventory and just to make assumptions. No.

No. No. No. You could you you probably know more about me now than everybody.

I know. Like, I'd like to move to Maryland and work with you.

That's what I I'll hire you. You should you should come

back. I would love that. So tell me, how do you lead?

K. So if you wanted to categorize it, you know, there's all these different types, and people wanna, you know, throw people in a box. So I I I I don't wanna say that I am a servant leader, because there's more to it than that. Yes. I grew up in that concept. That's how I got into this as far as volunteering is concerned, wanting to serve our community, serve our people, but I am literally a hands on person in every aspect of leadership. I don't micromanage, but I am invested. If I give someone an assignment, it's not just checking on them, it's Her can I help you be better at it or was I clear in my communication? So that's just in the assignments, but in the everyday the day to day aspect, I literally talk to my people all the time.

I tell them what's what's the joke of the day. Like, we're laughing, we're joking. I wanna see them smile. I wanna see them successful, and I wanna connect with them. When I retire, I want them to say, oh, we miss Her. You know, not just because she left the department or she went through a challenging time through COVID, but she was fun to be around. Like, that my personality, that's who I am. And the other big thing for me, it's not just about managing people.

You know, you have to lead them to a destination. Like, I want them to be successful. I want them to move to the next level. I had mentors that did that gentle push for me. Like, they pushed me to promote. If they had never said anything, I'm not sure that I would have done anything. I wanna be that same person for someone else, that same type of leader that pushes The department into the next great thing. Like, we're pushing toward accreditation right now.

They're pushing back. I'm pushing forward. Come on, guys. We can do this. But that's the type of leader I wanna be. I strive to be I really work really hard to do it every single day.

So my word for leadership is love. I believe that you have to love you have to love your people. It doesn't mean that you always like them. It's kinda like kids. It doesn't mean you always get along or agree, but you have to love them. You have to love them so much that you want to see them succeed beyond you. And, you know, that's the the foundation. And and when you describe your leadership style, that's all I hear is you you love your people.

And I'm gonna quote you now. I'm gonna take your quote and use it next time because that basically described what I was trying to say.

I think it's so important, and I I love the direction of leadership in that way, that it's, you know, recognizing that, you know, it's it's the changes. It's the navigating, all that those things. Because, what, firefighters don't like the way things are, and they don't like change. So you have to lead them through those transitions and make it less scary and make it, you know, like you said, fun and adding laughter. And I just think that is Inside.

And I think people will say that they hear us laughing all day. We Diane be in an intense meeting and I'm like, who gave me coffee? And they're like, oh, god, did you because I'm like, get ready and we'll be talking to Mal a minute, like, who did The? And everyone's both bust out laughing, like, I just try to lower calm down. Let's get through this together. It's stressful enough job. It shouldn't be stressful sitting in a meeting with me. Yes. We have deliverables. Yes.

We have hard things to do. Right? But it should be fun. Like, we should still be smiling, enjoying each other's company, and it's not all all smiles and, you know, lollipops all day. But at the same time, we should enjoy each other's company.

Absolutely. Well and that's the that's how teams thrive and succeed and keep raising the bar, you know, keep pushing towards that pinnacle of high performance as everyone's empowered and has fun. And sounds like you are creating that culture of belonging, which is magic. It's magic. It's just it's magic. Another question that I would love to know as we kinda wind down, do you still feel the pressure of being an African American Fire Chief? Does that pressure ever lessen, I guess, if that makes sense?

No. The pressure's still there. I still feel like I have to work harder. When I come into a room of Fire Chiefs, I am generally the only one. In this region, I am blessed that I have 2 other female Fire Chiefs, Trish Wolford in Anne Arundel County and Joanne Run-in Baltimore County, and we are thick as thieves because this is all we got. We meet every month. We talk all the time. We laugh.

We have a great time. They're my sisters. But we are still single in the room, so the pressure is always gonna be there. Some things that others have, I don't have. They have some things given to them that will never be given to me. So I do have to work hard so the pressure's there, and I also don't wanna be the last. I heard another Chief said, you know, you know, you can break a glass ceiling, but you should shatter it. How do I do that? The pressure is I have to stay visible.

I have to stay, engaged in the community, and quite frankly, I don't have a lot of room for error because I I won't get, the same people won't look past my mistake, Grace. Absolutely. I won't get The, and that's still prevalent in the virus service.

It is. I I hear you say that, and I my heart breaks. So what would you tell yourself, your 15 year old self, if you could go back and talk to Her? What would you tell her for advice today?

This is probably off the cuff of what wasn't what you're expecting, but I would tell her to take care of her knees because my knees are shot. Yes. That makes sense. That way, just things evolve. You gotta start young, take care of those knees. That's that's the funny side of it, but I would tell her to be resilient in the face of a challenge. And some things I saw coming up, it was easier not again, not to say something when you should have or to shy away from the the challenge. Again, if I didn't have that push, I probably wouldn't have taken that test to be resilient, to keep pushing forward.

Challenges are gonna come, but they're for growth and opportunity, and you'll get through it.

That is fantastic advice and such a beautiful way to end this conversation. Chief, thank you so much for giving your time and authenticity and showing up and just absolutely being hilarious, as well. Well, thank you. I love it. Thank you so much, and I will put your information in the show notes. And I look forward to, you know, watching from afar to see what other amazing things you do for the rest of your career.

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

Another great conversation. Thank you for giving the valuable gift of your time and listening to The Fire Inside Her podcast. Speaking of value, one of the most common potholes we fall into on the journey to authenticity is not recognizing our value. So I created a workbook. It's all about value. Head on over to thefireinsideher.com/value to get your free workbook that will help you remember your value. Until next time, my friend.