Courses, VIP days, retainers, digital products- oh my!

If your offer suite feels more like a jigsaw puzzle than a business strategy, this episode is for you.

I’m joined by Maggie Patterson, creator of BS-Free Business®, author of Staying Solo®, and host of three podcasts, to talk about what service providers really need in their offer suite to build a profitable, simple, and sustainable business. No hustling required.

We get into:

• Why most offer suite advice is built for hype, not real service businesses
• What to focus on when your capacity is limited (especially if you're a mom or caregiver)
• How to simplify your offers without losing income
• The truth about low-ticket products and how much they actually take to sell
• What real business freedom looks like when you build it on purpose

If your offers feel like they’re running you instead of the other way around, this convo is your permission slip to rethink it all.

Mentioned In This Episode:

Grab Maggie’s Book (seriously, it'll change your life): www.stayingsolobook.com

Listen to the Staying Solo Podcast www.bsfreebusiness.com/solo

Get Access to Staying Solo Stories (Private Podcast): ww.bsfreebusiness.com/sydney (This one’s full of behind-the-scenes stories from real solo business owners building businesses that actually fit their lives.)

Check out Duped: The Dark Side Of Online Business: https://duped.online/

Sydney (she/her) (2): Do you ever

feel like, , everyone is telling you

2

to scale and hustle harder and build

an empire when all you really want is

3

a business that pays well and still

lets you pick up your kid from school?

4

Because same.

5

And that is why I could not wait

to interview Maggie Patterson.

6

Maggie is the creator of BS Free

business and the author of Staying Solo,

7

which is a book I absolutely devoured,

by the way, you have to read it.

8

,

, Sydney (she/her): Maggie hosts two podcasts, staying solo and

9

Confessions of a micro agency owner,

and she also co-hosts the Consumer

10

Advocacy Podcast called Duped

the Dark Side of Online Business.

11

And if you have listened to any of

those, you know she's a powerhouse

12

when it comes to calling out toxic

marketing and building a business

13

rooted in actual integrity.

14

Sydney (she/her) (2): With 20 plus

years experience as a client-based

15

business owner, Maggie, helps service

providers build what she calls a boring

16

business, AKA profitable, sustainable,

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And not built on chronic hustle.

18

She's one of the most honest, grounded

voices in the industry, and I am so

19

excited for you to hear this conversation.

20

Sydney (she/her): Maggie, for people that

don't know you, can you tell us a little

21

bit about your background and what you do?

22

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): So I actually

started my business 20 years ago and

23

it's had lots of twists and turns.

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My background's in communications.

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Um, I've done a lot of business

consulting over the years, and now I

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run a company called BS Free Business.

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I work with small business owners that

run service businesses, so they're

28

typically solo, like true solo business

owners doing consulting or creative work.

29

And then I also work with, um, some very

small, like what I call Mike Micro Agency.

30

So they're generally creatives

or professional service

31

providers that have a small team.

32

Sydney (she/her): Nice.

33

And what made you want to

work with solopreneurs?

34

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): You know, it's

one of those things that I think there's a

35

couple things is that's how I started out.

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Like I do have a team now, but the

majority of my clients are still

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solo service business owners.

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It is a really underserved market.

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And um, you know, I know you've

been reading the book, I talk

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about this a lot in the book, is

that like 80% of businesses in the

41

US or one person businesses yet

traditional entrepreneurship advice

42

is very, very much about like.

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Shark tank level or having a brick

and mortar when the reality is most

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businesses are one person, and most

businesses are service business owners.

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And what I've really, really found is, um.

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That's a really hard place to be

when you are, especially if you're

47

on, you know, in the internet,

on the online business world.

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Like you start to feel less

than, you start to feel like

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your business isn't legitimate.

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Like, I have to grow, I have to

buy this really expensive coaching.

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I have to do all these things.

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So I want to be like the antidote

to that messaging to be like,

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Hey, this is a legitimate choice.

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It's what the majority of business

owners do, and like, let's talk about

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how to make sure that you are not falling

into traps of burnout or not paying

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yourselves or those types of things.

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Sydney (she/her): I really love

that because it is so easy to

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get caught up in those like the.

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Bigger, , marketing messages around that

like grow and scale, which is all like

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really great, but it's not super doable

for small teams or like solopreneurs.

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And I feel like a lot of it is also

kind of misleading the way people make

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certain claims about the , successes

they have had in online businesses.

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So I have.

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Been really enjoying your book and

the way it talks about all of that.

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So highly recommend for anyone listening.

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And you also mentioned in the

book that online business world

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has gotten kind of culty which I

found to be really interesting.

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Could you talk about

that for just a minute?

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Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yeah,

I mean I talk about this all

70

the time, but I'm always like.

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sorry, I wish it wasn't this way.

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But what we really see is, you know,

the same way we would see with like

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multi-level marketing companies, or

we see in traditional cults we see a

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lot of marketing and sales tactics,

influence tactics being used in a

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way that is designed to shut down

your critical thinking, to convince

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you this person has the answers

and essentially take your money.

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And like something that we

would traditionally label as a.

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Scam.

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Like, you know, you've got some

friend who's selling some crypto

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thing and you're like, oh no, no.

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Um, we look at this a little

bit differently because business

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owners are hardwired to be hopeful.

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We are optimists like we are

like, Hey, I'm gonna be out here.

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I'm gonna make my own way.

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So we think, well, why couldn't it be me?

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Why couldn't I make the all the money?

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And we get really lulled

into this sense of, um.

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That they have answers, that we

don't have answers, and the cultiness

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comes in in terms of some of the

financial abuses that happen.

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I hear these stories all the time and

it's, it's really way more prevalent.

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Um, the commitment, the

way they want you to.

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Do things you wouldn't normally do.

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Like it's sometimes it's as simple

as a, something less culty, but

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not a cult, per se, is you have

a business coach that's like, but

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this is the only one way to do it.

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Like there's one source of truth.

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And that to me is where we have

to think like, Hey, you know what?

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It's actually more nuanced than that.

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I need more context.

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I need to take in other things.

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I need to think critically about

what's gonna work best for me.

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And I think one of the things like

I know your audience is moms, um.

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whether you're a mom or you're

neurodivergent or you're caring for,

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you know, elderly parents, you are very

capacity conscious and a lot of the

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business advice is not built for you.

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And then when you combine it with

the culty part of it, that's where

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it gets really messy and people start

to feel really bad about being able

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to make money the way they've made

money and like, it's just not good.

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Sydney (she/her): So I feel like, and

I, you've talked about this as well in

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your book and also on your podcast that

I've also been listening to the, there's

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kind of like these trends in offers

as well, like funnels and then courses

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and then memberships and like this

promise of like scaling your business.

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Is there a better way that people

with less capacity, like moms,

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caregivers, neurodivergent people,

should be kind of focusing their

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efforts when it comes to their

offers and building their businesses.

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Maggie Patterson (She/Her): So this is

a really, really good question, and I

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think the simplest answer is so many

of the things you just listed off, like

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memberships and courses, they're not bad.

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But they're not as simple

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Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.

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Maggie Patterson (She/Her): out to be.

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And this is why I'm very pro services

like, you know, I think those offers can

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be great if you have an audience, but

we don't talk about all the marketing

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it takes to fill those things up.

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They're like, create your membership.

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You'll get a thousand members.

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That's like a thousand Who,

like where are those people?

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Where are we

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Sydney (she/her): Right.

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Maggie Patterson (She/Her): from?

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It makes no sense.

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So, you know, for most people.

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Sticking to services and being

really, really mindful about

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like, what are my boundaries?

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How many clients can I take on?

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How do I communicate upfront

that this is how I work?

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Maybe I don't jump, have

weekly calls with my clients.

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You have a permission to slip

as a business owner to create

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the business in a way that is

going to work for your real life.

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And I always say to my clients

like, is that like they'll

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tell me something, I'll go.

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Is that gonna actually work

like for your actual life?

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'cause you just finished telling me what

a train wreck all these things were like

144

because real life is happening around you.

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So you know, if it's not working

for your real life, it's not

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gonna work in your business.

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Like, you just need to

be very, very honest.

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And I mean, I've been through this

when I started my business, you

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know, my son was home for quite some

time, then I had part-time daycare.

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Then I had, you know, school hours.

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I've gone through deaths of parents

caregiving, dealing with my own health.

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Like there's always going to be things

in your life that are impacting your

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capacity and you have to account

for them, and you cannot schedule

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every single hour you have available

for work to do actual client work.

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It just doesn't work that way.

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Sydney (she/her): Right.

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I love that you mentioned that.

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I feel like it's very easy,

especially when now we're

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existing so much and like the on.

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Line world and seeing all of

these oh, you can have what I

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have type of marketing posts.

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It's very easy to get caught up

in that and then realize, no,

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I, that's not gonna work for me.

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I can't quite have that.

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Especially when you mention like

filling those memberships, which

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would be lovely to have all the

thousand people, but I think it.

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It's pretty eye-opening when I

talk to people, when I talk to

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them specifically about Instagram.

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'cause that's what I

do Instagram marketing.

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But talking about like the realistic

conversion rates of that, I'm like,

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not every single follower is gonna buy.

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It's like a very, very small percentage.

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And even for like email,

it's pretty small.

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I think we need to have some

realistic expectations there.

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Both as business owners, but also

when we kind of consume marketing

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for other services and like

business coaches and all of that.

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Something to keep in mind for sure.

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Maggie Patterson (She/Her): I'm glad

that you brought that up because I

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refer to this as like the , audience

growth grift, because it's this idea

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of like, it should be so easy, like

every five, 10,000 followers I'll

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have 10,000 clients and it's like no.

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The reality is, is probably maybe

like 20 of those people, or like 30 of

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those people at the most are gonna buy.

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You have to have the right offer.

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Like, and I think we like membership's.

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Such a great example 'cause

it's so hyped up right now.

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Um.

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If you have very limited capacity

and you're like, I can only work

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12 hours a week because it's

when my kids are in preschool.

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Well, you have to deliver

everything in the membership.

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You have to do all the marketing.

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There's the community management.

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Uh, there's so many elements

we're not thinking about.

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We're just seeing the path to, oh,

I'm gonna make $10,000 a month.

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Super easy.

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Sydney (she/her): Yeah.

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And then if you don't have enough people

in the membership, it's not not worth

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it all the time you're putting into it.

199

Yeah.

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You're not making that money back.

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Maggie Patterson (She/Her):

Yeah, I mean I've

202

Sydney (she/her): Yeah.

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Maggie Patterson (She/Her): um, you

know, hope and a dream and I was

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like, Yeah, no, that's not actually

gonna be profitable at $37 month.

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Sydney (she/her): exactly.

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Now, like you said, my

audience is mostly moms.

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There are people kind of working

in like the, the cracks of the day.

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'cause a lot of us have like young

kids that are home during the day.

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What do you think they should actually

be thinking about when building their

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offer suite with that kind of capacity?

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Are there like certain offers

that are better than others?

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Maggie Patterson (She/Her): So, you know,

I think it's a really good question.

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It's gonna depend on skills, experience,

who your clients are, but I think there's

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a few things for service providers that we

need to focus on more is number one thing.

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Generally when people come to me

and it seems really, really simple,

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and they're like, most service

providers are undercharging.

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So you're just like, 'cause you

start your business and you're like,

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okay, I've got 12 hours a week.

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I'm just gonna kind of cram

it into the pockets of my day.

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Maybe I'm gonna, you know, takes into

swimming lessons on Saturday morning, I've

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got that three hours, and you're just kind

of cramming it in and you're like, you're

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just happy to make anything you can make.

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Right?

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And then your pricing is just like, not.

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Really reflecting your skills, your

talents, your experience, uh, the

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value you deliver to your clients.

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So always looking at your pricing

for your offers and not just

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settling to be like, you know what?

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Well, this is just easy.

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Well, you know what?

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It's better to have two clients

paying you way more money than five

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clients who are underpaying you.

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So I think that's the first

thing you always wanna look at.

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And one of the things I see with

pretty much every service provider

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is they're giving away a lot of

strategic thinking that needs to be

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charged for, that needs to be in a

different way than tactical work.

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So I'll give you an

example with Instagram.

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Like if you're doing a strategy for

someone, like you're doing an audit,

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a review, and you're making really,

you know, a content strategy for them,

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that's very different work than you

sitting down and creating captions or

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Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.

242

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): So when

you think about that, you know, how

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do you charge accordingly for that?

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And I call it selling the sell

the strategy, because we tend

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to merge those all together.

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And then we put ourselves in this

very executional tactical mode

247

when we're actually doing really

strategic work for our clients.

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Sydney (she/her): that's

a really great point.

249

Um, so if there are mom business owners,

'cause something I'm hearing a lot

250

from people that I work with who are,

typically service providers as well.

251

They're creating, like a lot of

low ticket like digital products.

252

'cause that's also like

a big thing right now.

253

So they have like lots of those

and they're feeling like really

254

overwhelmed with their offer suites.

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What do you think the

best way is to simplify?

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Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Okay.

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So like digital products, something

you're selling at 37 or 97, like

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do sit down and do the math.

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How much time does it take

for me to create this?

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How much time does it create for

me in marketing it like, and if you

261

look at standard conversion rates,

which you kind of alluded to a couple

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Sydney (she/her): Hmm.

263

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): ago, we're

talking about one to 3% of your audience.

264

So for every, and that's if

your thing is really dialed in.

265

It's solving a really specific problem.

266

It's, you know, just hitting those

points and people are like, yes, I

267

Sydney (she/her): Yeah.

268

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): So

you've gotta look at, you know.

269

For me to make a thousand dollars at 97,

I've now gotta sell that to 10 people.

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You know, how much work do I

need to do to make that happen?

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Or could I have $1,000 a month client?

272

That's way simpler, way less work, and

like way more predictable than trying to.

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Grind it out.

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And I think low ticket products are

really, really, really appealing.

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But they're really hard.

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Like I have been doing ever.

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I've done like every type of thing

under the sun over the last 20 years.

278

And I will say those are the hardest for

me to sell and continue to be even with

279

an audience, even with multiple podcasts,

even with all the, you know, podcasts,

280

collaborations, things I do like, I do

a lot of marketing and those are still

281

really challenging to sell because.

282

Some people don't wanna do it themselves.

283

They want you to do it with them

and let those people give you money.

284

Sydney (she/her): I love that perspective.

285

It's something I'm certainly leaning

into more as I'm having these

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own realizations in my business.

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Like, man, I'm, I'm doing a lot right now

and need to, need to adjust things so I.

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Definitely came across your, your book

at like the right time for me personally,

289

and I'm really excited 'cause I know

I've talked to a lot of other business

290

owners that are in the same boat, so

I'm really excited for them to hear this

291

and, and get that information as well.

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You've also said that complexity

is the enemy of sustainability.

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So if people right now are

listening and wondering like, if

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I cut things, will I lose money?

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Can you.

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Talk a bit about how doing

less can actually lead to more.

297

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Okay.

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It is the classic.

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80 20 rule.

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You know, we hear this all the time.

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of things is not what's

getting us with routes.

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It's the 20%.

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So figuring out, like, you know, you

were talking about the low ticket offers.

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If I have five low ticket offers,

I am now dividing all my focus.

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I, everything's getting a

little bit of my attention.

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What if I just had one?

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And I really, really committed to that.

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if you have five services.

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What's the one service

that I know is profitable?

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I can deliver the capacity I have

that people easily say yes to.

311

It feels, you know, it feels like

it's in the sweet spot of what

312

my clients want and what I wanna

be doing with my time and energy.

313

You know, looking for the simplest

things because we really start to think

314

about like more is better and actually.

315

The simplicity of having less offers

means less marketing, less sales, less

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cognitive load for you, less decisions.

317

Um, and I think we really.

318

Most entrepreneurs, most

people start businesses.

319

We have lots of ideas.

320

We're very creative.

321

We wanna do all the things.

322

And just learning to have the

discipline to say, you know what?

323

I'm going to, I'm gonna give

this service, I'm gonna give this

324

offer the best possible result.

325

So I'm going to really focus in on that.

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And what I find when you do That is.

327

That's when things really start to hum

versus being like, oh, you know what?

328

I've got five offers and they're

getting a little bit, and nothing's

329

working really, really well, and I

made two sales here, three sales there,

330

and you're kind of like scraping by.

331

I think being okay with like

short term loss of money for

332

longer term gain is the way to go.

333

Sydney (she/her): That makes a ton

of sense, especially now I'm hearing

334

and seeing people are needing more.

335

Of those like touch points before buying,

so sticking with something longer that

336

you already know is working rather

than constantly switching up would

337

also be helpful in that aspect as well.

338

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yeah,

and people are often surprised when

339

I tell them things like, Hey, my

core offer at BS free business,

340

I've been selling for nine years.

341

And yes, it's shifted and you know,

we've done these little resets and

342

refinements along the way, but the core

of the offer is the same, and that's

343

what I've been able to become known for.

344

Whereas what happens with people

is you are, if you're constantly

345

like, I'm talking about TikTok,

I'm talking Instagram, I'm talking

346

about this, I'm talking about that.

347

Like, it's really hard

for people to keep up.

348

They're not moving as

fast and it's not sticky.

349

You want to be, you know, like Sydnee,

you wanna be known for Instagram.

350

So if you're all of a sudden like,

Hey, I'm gonna, I'm interested in

351

Pinterest, all of a sudden, like,

you are now diluting your brand and

352

you're doing yourself a disservice.

353

Sydney (she/her): Yeah, that's super true.

354

another thing we see a lot of

on like online marketing is like

355

this idea of freedom in business.

356

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yes.

357

, Sydney (she/her): But when we

build businesses that kind of like.

358

Don't give us freedom because we're kind

of adhering to all of these other things

359

that we talked about with like scaling

and you know, these trending things.

360

What do you think building true

freedom actually looks like when

361

you're designing your offers?

362

Maggie Patterson (She/Her):

This is such a good question.

363

I mean, there's a lot of facets

to this, but I think when

364

you think about your offers?

365

the first thing you need to

basically acknowledge is.

366

And I, I say this

constantly to my clients.

367

They're like, oh, I

wanna start a bookshop.

368

I'm like, but do you really like if

you are going to work for yourself, uh,

369

is this the the best possible version?

370

I'm not talking about fantasy world

where you're making millions sitting

371

on the beach, because That's not real.

372

If I'm going to do work, like, you

know, if I'm a designer and I wanna

373

be a copywriter, 'cause I used to

do both an agency, like why am I

374

doing design if I wanna do copy?

375

Being very, very clear about like,

what are my marketable skills?

376

Do I wanna be doing this?

377

That is a really good place to

start because it is really hard

378

to feel any sense of freedom

when you hate what you're doing.

379

So, you know, what is the most acceptable

version of work if I have to work?

380

Because the reality is, is

most of us do have to work.

381

We are not independently wealthy.

382

So I think starting there and

then also recognizing freedom

383

is not necessarily like, I'm not

working, I aren't doing this.

384

It's like freedom to be

flexible with your schedule.

385

Freedom to not have to like

respond really quickly.

386

So it starts with really

little things like boundaries.

387

Communicating those to your

clients, reinforcing those with

388

your clients, making sure you're

not over-delivering that, you know,

389

you're not constantly in scope creep.

390

Um, and a lot of this is gonna, and I

I'm always reticent to say this, a lot

391

of this is gonna come down to a lot

of practice and also just the mindset,

392

like am the owner of my business

and I don't work for my clients.

393

It's the collaboration.

394

And that everything is up for negotiation.

395

And if clients can't respect,

like, Hey, you know what?

396

I have to leave at three o'clock

to pick up my child from preschool.

397

not gonna be the right

fit for you as a client.

398

Sydney (she/her): That's super true.

399

I love that you mentioned the

small, like bits of freedom, like

400

being able to take your time,

responding and things like that.

401

I feel like that's something, uh, kind

of take for granted and or like look

402

over really as freedom instead of what

we, what I see a lot online being.

403

On Instagram all the time of like, oh,

I'm making sales from like this resort

404

while I'm like doing nothing, sitting

by the beach and stuff like that.

405

It doesn't always look like that.

406

Maggie Patterson (She/Her):

No, and I think you've gotta

407

remember that all of that.

408

is designed to be

409

Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.

410

Maggie Patterson (She/Her):

They're selling you a dream and

411

that dream is not a, not real.

412

Like, I hate to say I have an entire

podcast called Duped, where we go

413

into all of this because that is a,

a ploy to get you to buy something.

414

And I think one of the things, you

know, I always think back like my

415

son's 21 now, but when he was in school

and I would have to adjust my hours.

416

I would send an email at the beginning

of June and say, Hey everyone, I'm

417

now moving to my summer schedule, and

that means you may find me working at

418

non-traditional times, like, I'm not

gonna be working between nine to three.

419

I might be working at 8:00 PM

Like I will respond to you within.

420

And I think freedom to communicate those

things and have your clients respect that.

421

That meant I could go to library,

I could go to the pool, I could

422

do what I want and not feel like I

was being fractured all the time.

423

And that.

424

be very different in different

seasons of your life.

425

But I think those boundaries there and

communicating 'em really clearly is the

426

first step to that and is something you

would need to consistently be doing with

427

Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.

428

I love that you mentioned that.

429

I literally have like in my email

signature, I might respond outside of

430

normal working hours, but do not feel the

pressure to respond right away or like

431

outside your own normal working hours.

432

Because a lot of the times, yeah, when

my kids are home, I'm like writing emails

433

at like 9:00 PM and things like that,

but I'd never want other people to feel

434

like they need to do the same, to like

keep the conversation going or anything.

435

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): And this

is why I'm a huge fan of Send Later,

436

Sydney (she/her): Mm.

437

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): like

I would write things at God knows

438

what time, and then I'd just be

like, I magically go out at 8:32

439

Sydney (she/her): Yeah, that's

a really, that's very smart.

440

I don't know why I never thought

of that, but I'll have to use that.

441

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): I,

I don't want anyone to think

442

I'm actually working at nine.

443

If I, if I was

444

Sydney (she/her): Yeah,

that's a good point.

445

Like, don't expect me to stay up

late working on your, your stuff.

446

Yeah.

447

Now I also have seen this kind of

belief, , that if we are not like working

448

on scaling or growing, growing your,

your business is kind of like stagnant.

449

So what would you say to like

the mom business owners who are.

450

Hitting their income

goals but not scaling.

451

I guess I'm just gonna

keep using that term.

452

Who might feel like she's doing something

wrong because it's not what everyone else

453

is talking about or doing in business.

454

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): So I

talk about this a lot in the book,

455

and I'm sure you've been into that

section by now, but you know, there's

456

a difference between growth and scale.

457

And I come, I've, my background's in tech

communications and we talk about tech

458

companies scaling, like that's true scale.

459

Like, and what it means to scale

is I am making more and more

460

and more of my money without.

461

At Capital Investment, the way scale

is used, and this is, I'm such a words

462

person, but it annoys me to no end

The way that this is a misused term.

463

The majority of what businesses

are doing in the online business

464

realm and what they're talking

about, it's not scale, it's growth.

465

Number one, is not something that most

businesses are ever going to really

466

achieve, uh, as a solo business owner.

467

So if you're making $5,000 a

month and you're like, I'm good.

468

That's okay.

469

Like there's nothing wrong with

that because I think the one thing

470

that happens, you get kind of,

it chips away at you over time.

471

And the reality is, is like most of your

friends are looking at you going, I'd

472

like to make $5,000 a month and have

a flexible schedule, or whatever that

473

number is, and then getting really clear

for you, like, what is that number?

474

What is enough?

475

for some people that's might

be a thousand dollars a month.

476

For some people that

may be $10,000 a month.

477

It's not about the number.

478

It's what that number means to you

and your family and for your life.

479

And there's no magic number that makes you

more or less legit as a business owner.

480

So I, you know, so many times

I talk to people and they're

481

like, I'm just making it.

482

I'm like, do you know you make

more than most business owners?

483

They're like, what?

484

Like people have totally lost the plot.

485

So just know that whatever

you're doing is good enough and

486

you need to figure out what.

487

What that enough number is

for you and plan from there.

488

It's totally normal to wanna

grow, but growing is not doubling

489

your business every year.

490

Sometimes it might be, Hey, you know what?

491

I have a client 10%

less and made 11% more.

492

That was a win.

493

Sydney (she/her): Yeah, that's a big win.

494

And you kind of mentioned this,

and I know you mentioned it in your

495

book, but the amount of money solo

business owners make isn't as much.

496

Like, it's not a ton.

497

So if you're not fe, if you feel like

you're not hitting those like 10 K

498

months or whatever, you hear everyone

hear everyone like talking about or

499

bragging about online they're, they're

not, it's like the actual number was

500

what was like 39,000 or something.

501

Maggie Patterson (She/Her):

I think it's like $46,000.

502

In the US naming, it varies by

country, but there is consistent

503

research that shows a few things is

number one, the majority of businesses

504

never make a hundred thousand dollars

505

Sydney (she/her): Hmm.

506

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Like,

and that's, that's just the numbers.

507

Bear that out.

508

Especially if you're a woman, a

woman owned business, especially if

509

you are a woman of color, like those

numbers go down and down and down.

510

So, and that's not to say you can't

defy that and do better than that.

511

But also like when someone says,

oh, I'm making 10 KA month.

512

Just know that they maybe

10 made 10 K one month.

513

And maybe it's 'cause clients

all pay their invoices at once.

514

Like I've had some really

big months in my business.

515

But if I was to sit down and tell

you all the reasons those happened.

516

And what was happening on either

side of that, it would, you would

517

be like, oh, so just know people

are a little fast and loose with

518

how they talk about their numbers.

519

And that's why, to me, as a consumer,

I look at anyone who's using, um,

520

an income claim to say, I made

this and I can teach you too.

521

Or, you know, I, you are gonna

make $10,000 a month or whatever.

522

I, I approach that with a lot of

skepticism and I don't do business

523

with those people because I don't

wanna be deceived in that kind of way.

524

Sydney (she/her): Yeah,

I feel the same way.

525

I.

526

I feel like so many people are

making those income claims online

527

now, and every time I see it, I've

just kind of cringe a little bit.

528

Um, and just because you like that,

not you specifically, sorry, that

529

person did it for like their business,

doesn't mean they can necessarily

530

get you those exact same results.

531

Because like you said earlier,

there's a lot of nuance, um, in

532

everyone's situation and, and

considerations and things like that.

533

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yeah.

534

and there's never, there's

never the full story.

535

And you know, like I, you think of some

of the biggest names in the online space.

536

Like, they're like, oh,

I've made $32 million total.

537

Yeah, they started in 2011.

538

It was a very different world.

539

Like I remember that world.

540

Facebook ads were like a dollar,

like that's not reality now.

541

And I think especially now in 2025,

like we are navigating a lot of things

542

we don't have a playbook for in terms

of the economy, the geopolitical

543

situation, there's constant crisises.

544

You know, people are very

conscious about their budget.

545

'cause you know, if you've been to

buy anything at the grocery store,

546

you know what that looks like.

547

So your business is now operating against

all of those things in the background.

548

So what worked even a year ago

is going to shift and change.

549

Sydney (she/her): Yeah, that's super

important to keep in mind right now.

550

There's, there's a ton, ton

going on, um, and it definitely

551

affects, um, buyer behavior.

552

So, definitely don't feel bad if

your months look different than they

553

used to, or you're not getting those

10 K months that you see online.

554

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yeah,

and I think the reality is is

555

I actually wrote an email to my

list this morning about this.

556

It's like, yes, it's the economy,

but there's not, there's a lot of

557

other factors and what we all have

to look at as business owners is,

558

okay, here's the bigger backdrop, and

you can choose, like you can just.

559

Be like, oh, it's the economy,

and be okay with that.

560

Or you can start to look at things

very strategically in your business.

561

Friends, I'm 20 years in, I have had

to do a lot of soul searching and a lot

562

of little refinements, little resets

in my business over the last year

563

to continue to stay relevant and to

continue to, you know, hit the numbers

564

I have been able to consistently hit

565

Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.

566

Yeah, that's a really great point.

567

, If someone's listening right now and

they're feeling just like completely

568

stuck in like that huy version of their

business where they're just spending

569

all their time, um, and not getting

much return, what is the first thing you

570

would want them to like do or rethink?

571

Maggie Patterson (She/Her):

I want them to go back to the

572

very, very, very beginning and.

573

If you are in a situation, let's say you

have a service and I'll use Instagram

574

'cause that's what you do, Sydnee is maybe

you're doing Instagram consulting or you

575

know, social media management, you know,

and you are not able to get traction.

576

Maybe you're getting, you know,

I start to diagnose the problem.

577

Do I have anyone that's

actually interested?

578

No.

579

Okay, so that's telling me a few things.

580

Maybe I have a messaging problem, maybe

I'm not talking about the right problems.

581

Maybe I need to position

myself like more of an expert.

582

Um, maybe I'm not doing enough marketing.

583

That's a really common one I see

with service business owners.

584

They're like sitting around

twiddling their thumbs.

585

They're like, I don't have enough clients.

586

And I'm like, what are you doing about it?

587

Like, you know, business is not magic.

588

It comes down to some very

fundamental strategic things that

589

I talk about something in the

book called The Strategy Stack.

590

So, you know, really going

through what are the problems,

591

what is your positioning?

592

What are your packages?

593

What are, you know, your

promotional marketing strategy?

594

What is your pricing?

595

All of those things have

to be working together.

596

And if you are not able to make

sales or you're just not even getting

597

any interest, you need to go back

to the very beginning and start

598

to figure out why aren't working.

599

And a lot of times it comes

down to a lack of specificity.

600

Everyone wants to be for everyone,

and that's not how it works.

601

The more specific you can get, the better.

602

I saw this when I went from, you know,

working with solo business owners to

603

micro business owners, to micro agency

owners and solo service business owners.

604

Many creatives and consultants,

people are scared to do that.

605

But the more specific you can be to

call those people in, the better it

606

gets because people go, oh, that's me.

607

Yes, I have that problem.

608

Let me

609

Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.

610

Yeah, that's a really great point.,

611

I find that when I get more specific,

not only in like niching down, uh,

612

if you wanna call it that, but in

the transformation a specific offer

613

provides is also incredibly helpful.

614

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yeah,

I'm, oh, I could talk about that one

615

all day because it, like, people will

be like, what they do is they focus

616

on like, you're gonna get a report.

617

Well, what is the report gonna do with me?

618

Like, what is the promise of that report?

619

What is the specifics of what that's

going to for do for me in my business?

620

Um, we, we wanna talk about

deliverables, but like.

621

What is this actually

doing for your end client?

622

Like if you're working with a veterinary

clinic, does it mean they're gonna get

623

more inbound leads in their website?

624

'cause your web site desire,

and that means more clients

625

coming through the door.

626

We wanna be like, you get a new

website, and it's like, no, no, no.

627

It's much

628

Sydney (she/her): Yeah.

629

Maggie Patterson (She/Her):

People don't pay for that stuff.

630

They want the end result that solves the

631

Sydney (she/her): Mm-hmm.

632

Yeah, for sure.

633

And you have a private podcast

that people can listen to as well.

634

Can you tell us a little bit about that?

635

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Yeah, so I

did this podcast, it's called Staying Solo

636

Stories as a companion to the book because

I share some stories in the book, and one

637

of the pieces of feedback I got with my

early readers is they were like, I wanna

638

know more about these people and what

they're doing, their business and like.

639

We're all really nosy, like we

love a good behind the scenes.

640

So, uh, I interviewed

seven different clients.

641

I share, uh, part of my clients

and friends, and I also share

642

part of my backstory of like

how I started my business and,

643

you know, where I got to today.

644

I don't really talk about those

stories on my main podcasting solos.

645

So staying solo stories is

really a way to jump into that.

646

And if you wanna check that?

647

out, you can go to bs

free business.com/sydney.

648

Because we wanna make it really simple

because we know you're listening to a

649

podcast and I hate that like slash dot

650

Sydney (she/her): Yeah.

651

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): dot.

652

And if you wanna also check out my main

podcast, you can go to just Sting Solo

653

and it's all the places this podcast is.

654

Sydney (she/her): Perfect.

655

I'm definitely gonna check that out

because I do love that you like included

656

all of those people and I in your book.

657

And I also am very nosy, so

yes, excited to listen to that.

658

But um, thank you so much for coming

on and sharing all of your insights.

659

I found it really helpful.

660

And I'm also gonna include a link for

your book in the show notes because

661

it's probably one of my favorites.

662

I highly recommend that everyone read it.

663

It's so good.

664

Maggie Patterson (She/Her):

Yeah, and it's a really good.

665

introduction to my work because as I

always say to people like, you know,

666

the name of my company is BS Free

Business, so I am a little sweary

667

and I'm very like direct, and that

is either for you or not for you.

668

So it's a low risk way to

get to know me a little

669

Sydney (she/her): Yeah.

670

And there's just so much good

information in there and I love that.

671

I feel like a lot of what I see.

672

About business right now is just like

based on vibes, but you have like

673

all the research and the statistics

and the data to back everything

674

up and it just makes me so happy.

675

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): Thank you.

676

That was like three chapters

of like setting up my

677

Sydney (she/her): Yeah.

678

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): and

that's when people were like, what

679

was the hard part of the book?

680

I'm like, that, that took me

681

Sydney (she/her): Yeah.

682

It was well worth it.

683

Yeah.

684

Maggie Patterson (She/Her): you.

685

Sydney (she/her): So yes, I will have the

links for everything in the show notes.

686

And again, thank you so much

for coming on to talk to me.

687

Maggie Patterson (She/Her):

Thanks so much Sydney.