Filling your Booking Calendar Year-Round with Lindsey Holland, Cleeve Hill Hotel

Sarah Orchard: 00:00:23

You're listening to Get Fully Booked with Sarah Orchard. Are you ready to master your marketing so you can ditch your reliance on the online agents and grow your direct bookings?

I'll be sharing with you exactly what it takes to grow your direct bookings and the simple marketing steps to get more profit in your pocket. Hello. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Get Fully Booked podcast.

I'm your host, Sarah Orchard, and this week I am delighted to welcome another amazing host guest to the podcast, Lindsay Holland from Cleve Hill Hotel. Lindsay's always worked in the hotel group hospitality, but seven years ago she bought her very own hotel. Welcome, Lindsay, to the podcast.

Lindsay Holland: 00:01:11

Hello.

Sarah Orchard: 00:01:12

Thank you for joining me today. So I thought we'd start with, for the listeners, a little bit of background in terms of how did you end up buying your very own hotel?

Lindsay Holland: 00:01:24

Well, that was all down to a Sunday lunch, actually, but I'll skip that section. So. I had always worked in independence.

Very much realized from the start of my career that I was not made to be a Holiday Inn, sort of do it this way kind of person. I was forever challenging what was being given to me. So headed off into independence and worked with a number of different groups in London.

Some were really inspiring. I guess that's where the education came from.

things, by the time we got to: 2016

And then randomly visiting a friend over Sunday lunch, his mum said, oh, look, look, look at this wonderful hotel. And so that was. That was how Cleve Hill was introduced to me and Cleve Hill Hotel.

And as soon as I came up and had a look at all the views and found out the story behind the hotel, I just thought it was something that I could absolutely work with.

Sarah Orchard: 00:02:34

Very, very exciting how a Sunday lunch turned into being a hotel owner, an entrepreneur. There was probably some wine involved, I should think, to make you make you buy a hotel.

Lindsay Holland: 00:02:47

Well, I thought about it. I had thought about it because I didn't quite know what else to do, if that makes sense.

If you're not going to work for an owner and you want to do it for yourself, it seemed sort of the next step. But I didn't know what that looked like.

And it wasn't until there was a bit of inspirational support that I suddenly thought, that's what it looks like.

Sarah Orchard: 00:03:08

Cool. So describe the hotel to us. How Many bedrooms. What do you offer?

Lindsay Holland: 00:03:13

So she's a beautiful. I will talk about her in the. In as a. As a person, she and I.

I think of her as a very great aunt who hopefully, over the years I'm bringing back into a younger and younger model as I manage to refurb more and more. So. So, yes, so she and I have a very good relationship and sometimes a very bad one, but we were still talking. But yes.

So I've got 10 ensuite rooms, two with separate bathrooms. She was built as a hotel, which makes her pretty unique because she has 10, well, 12 good sized rooms. She's a bit of a Tardis.

Quite a few people are very surprised at just how big she is once you get inside. She has been open as a hotel for about 100 years. We think we've probably passed our 100 year anniversary at some point over the past few years.

And with it come an awful lot of maintenance conundrums.

She unfortunately wasn't much loved by some previous owners, so when I took her on, it was much more of a maintenance project, I guess, rather than a hospitality project, put it that way.

Sarah Orchard: 00:04:26

And of course, guests are getting more and more discerning in terms of, you know, my mum used to.

Mum and dad used to run a bed and breakfast in a seaside resort and none of the ten, we had ten bedrooms actually, but none of the ten bedrooms were ensuite. And of course now guests want ensuite and they want, you know, coffee machines and televisions and all the lovely, you know, mod cons.

So is that part of the challenge of renovating her is sort of bringing her up to date with sort of guest expectations now?

Lindsay Holland: 00:04:55

Absolutely. It's a mix of everything. There's some practical sides to it in as much as everybody has about five or six devices now that need to be plugged in.

So unless you've got USB ports and plugs and everything by the bed, you suddenly find people are bringing their own extension lead right through to just. So obviously we'll come on to this, but one of my market segments is those walking the Cotswold Way.

It's a national trail and with it they come all sorts of different challenges in terms of what they need.

So, interestingly enough, the guests that I was maybe dealing with in London are actually quite different to the guests that I'm dealing with now in terms of what their demands and what their needs are. And actually all the different market segments that I work with here at the Thai hotel also have different demands.

So it's Been a really interesting learning curve for me in terms of what actually needs to be refurbished versus what the guests want versus what they need. And it's it still to this day, sometimes it completely baffles me. But I think I'm getting there. I think I'm getting there.

Sarah Orchard: 00:06:00

Well, that leads us beautifully onto why I've invited you onto the podcast to talk about you. And I sort of first met through you doing my bootcamp program, which is marketing strategy.

So you're working on your marketing strategy for the hotel and one of the things that you identified through that process was that you had eight ideal guests. Now, as a marketer, I'm sitting here frowning, which you can't see on the podcast.

But we typically say that you need sort of one to two guest ideal guests or guest avatars, guest Personas, they get referred to lots of different. It doesn't matter what you call them, but it's fundamental to any marketing working, knowing who you're talking to.

So I always try and get my clients and people going through my training to narrow it down to one or two. But Lindsay was adamant that she had eight and I didn't believe her when she was doing my boot camp that she had eight.

But I have to concede and she does have eight ideal guests. And obviously I'm going to ask you to tell us a little bit about those eight ideal guests that you look after in your beautiful hotel.

Lindsay Holland: 00:07:04

Of course, of course. So, as I said, because of where I'm situated, I'm incredibly lucky.

I see it as being incredibly lucky that I have the benefit of having those eight avatars. So those doing the Cotswold Way walk and really sports holidays, whether it's cycling or anything like that, is one section.

So we have that as our first avatar. Following on from that, we've got leisure guests who might be older, past retirement.

They can come any time of the week, they can do whatever they want to do. We've also then got younger leisure guests who might be popping out from London for the weekend, may never have been to the Cotswold.

It's a couple coming away for the first time together, very much a very quick out of town break. There's a fantastic festival scene in Cheltenham. So the actual festival scene itself provides a number of guests throughout the year.

Whether it's the literature festival, the jazz festival, food and drink festival, we've got an awful lot going on locally.

Following on from that, we've then got wedding guests, those heading to parties, whether it's retirement parties, christenings, there's a lot of locations locally that are beautiful Cotswold locations but don't have any accommodation. So that makes up another avatar area. And I guess the less exciting side, maybe, I don't know, is those on business trips. I'm sure.

I'm sure they're probably pretty fed up. But yes, we've got a massive industrial part to this side of the country.

I think between Bristol and Birmingham, everybody knows we've got a lot of industrial bits going on. So, yes, so the business guest side of things is another avatar.

And then finally, this one is actually something that's developed quite a lot since COVID is those that need to stay because they actually can't stay with their family.

So where the spare room's been now turned into an office, you know, mum and dad, Grandma and granddad can't actually stay and visit family because there is nowhere left for them to stay.

So I have a number of guests that stay with me because either their children are in school or at university or if they're living here with grandchildren, they want to get time away from the family or as I said, they just don't have time to stay. So a lot of people are actually just coming because they're visiting local friends and family. So. Oh, and I missed one. They go.

It's like the dwarfs trying to remember them all. And yes, the last section is family.

So those that actually have got young children that are away on holidays, so school holidays, half terms and that side.

Sarah Orchard: 00:09:46

Of thing, and that's a key thing, isn't it, with your audiences, is because you're a business that's open all year round and you've got to fill the business all year round. And obviously you mentioned the first one, which was the sort of active, adventurous, particularly being on the Cotswold way, the walkers.

It's quite seasonal, isn't it? And obviously families can be seasonal.

Lindsay Holland: 00:10:06

You'd have thought it.

But actually I have discovered that those in Canada think that we are phenomenally accessible over the winter because we've not got 4 foot of snow and sitting at minus 45. So. So it's been really interesting because.

And again, whether this is a sign of changing times, but I'm now reaching out to those in colder climes to come here in winter because it's slightly warmer and actually they can stay active and more accessible. And those in Europe who are completely exacerbated by the heat in the summer to come here because it's slightly cooler.

Well, it certainly has been slightly cooler this year.

So again, it's for me, the avatars also move around a bit, actually, because my traditional understanding of who I think I've got staying at the hotel blends quite a lot and changes in mold. So. So I'd say they were all a bit like jelly.

You sort of, you think you've pigeonholed them and you've nailed it and then they go and surprise you and you're like, oh no.

Sarah Orchard: 00:11:07

And actually you've touched on a really strong trend or a couple of strong trends that are, you know, in the last couple of years. One is the sort of the.

They're calling them cool cationing, which is like when people want to get away from central Europe during the hotter summer months because it's become so hot and they're coming to sort of the uk, particularly in the sort of spring and autumn. So it's extending the season, which I think is obviously great for us hosts, isn't it?

In terms of, you know, we want that, we don't want everything concentrated in a sort of six week period.

And I know a lot of businesses, glamp sites and holiday cottage owners sort of struggle with that because, you know, they have this intense summer period but then they really struggle to fill the, you know, the spring and the autumn and the winter months. But by having all these different guest profiles, you know, weddings are happening all year round.

You know, like you said, there's a massive festival scene.

You've got the race course which is just down the road from you, you know, massive festival and event, event scene in Cheltenham and the surrounding area. So I know that you've been trying to tap into, you know, how, how do you get to those people?

And I suppose that leads me on beautifully to my next question, which is about the. Do you find one guest profile easier to attract over another?

Lindsay Holland: 00:12:19

Absolutely. I think that's the lovely thing about when you're actually hosting your own guests. You begin to get to know them in a way that you.

I never would have known the guests when I was working in larger hotels in London because I wasn't frontline enough in order to soak up all the information.

So as you mentioned, actually it helps with refurbishment, it helps with knowing what to put on the breakfast buffet, but it also helps in terms of marketing because those walking the Cotswold way, I can profile them right down to what clothes they wear and what shoes they like to walk in because that minute detail is there because I'm seeing them so often and they're staying so often. So I think it becomes really Easy, which is really good, don't get me wrong. The ability to know that is fantastic.

But I guess I quite like the challenge of trying to tap into those that I don't know so well, because A, it's a bit more of a challenge, but also B, I don't want to ever end up with a situation where I've actually lost one of the avatars because I've just not paid enough attention to it. It really highlighted during COVID when the whole international scene went, quite a lot of my walking business went.

And actually that was when all the other avatars suddenly come into their own because I thought, hang on a minute, actually I need to tap into those leisure guests and I need to tap into the UK walking guests and those that want to go horse riding maybe or do some outdoor activities or visiting families, because I suddenly realized that that whole walker section that fly in from North America and Australia and Europe had just disappeared. So. Yes, but in terms of, I guess my favorite is usually the one that I can sort of tap down to the very bottom.

As I said, I can tell you the shoes they're wearing.

But yes, I think it's definitely easier when you get to know the guests a lot better because you can start to see the repetitiveness of some of their traits.

Sarah Orchard: 00:14:21

Yeah. And particularly for your, for your marketing, it's like being able to adapt the, I presume, the messaging.

So I mean, on your website, do you, with these, you know, these eight ideal guests in mind, how do you, how do you communicate to all eight of them in terms of things that's important to them rather than just having this like one homogenous paragraph on your website that's meant to like, attract, because that's not going to appeal to like all eight types of guests. So how do you approach that, Lindsay?

Lindsay Holland: 00:14:49

Well, I do have different sections to the, to the website.

So hopefully there's, there's something for everybody in terms of when they're looking through the website, what do they actually want to get out of where they're staying. Hopefully I answer those questions.

I rely quite heavily on the FAQs as well, especially for those doing something like the Cotswold way, because there are key bits of information that they need to know.

So if they're in my FAQs and found, then hopefully it will reassure them that I'm the right place to stay and sort of location and all the rest of it. I very much try to also work with recommendations of other things to do in the area.

So for example, if you're a curious older couple and you're not quite sure where to go.

If you land on my website, there's an area about the Cotswolds and Cheltenham and then there's also links to other things that they could be doing in the area to give them the inspiration to build their idea of what their week away could be.

Sarah Orchard: 00:15:49

And I presume it's also influenced things like your search engine optimization and things like the metadata that you've put on your website as well, because they're going to be using all of those eight different types of guests are going to be using very different search terms when they go on.

So if I'm thinking like I'm, you know, I'm going to the race course for the festival or another event that's taking place there, I'm probably going to type into Google hotel accommodation near Cheltenham Racecourse. But I'm probably not going to type that in if I'm a business visitor to the area I'm coming for a business meeting or if I'm a family.

So did you have to try and narrow or be very specific about the search terms that you've used for search engine optimization? I know it's something that you've worked heavily on on your website.

Lindsay Holland: 00:16:35

Yes. And I'm very much with your support, so I can't claim all the knowledge myself because you have been a phenomenal help with it.

But I think the thing that probably daunted me the most was when I actually started to think about all the different search terms of all the different avatars, because there are so many avatars and so many groups, I suddenly realized that actually the search terms were just insane. Like we could. There were so many.

Sarah Orchard: 00:17:01

It's a very long list.

Lindsay Holland: 00:17:03

Yes. But actually I think it was a really good exercise because then it was working out what overlaps and what we could streamline.

And as you quite rightly say, location to the racecourse is important for others, Location to the Cotswold Way is important for others. For some, it's accessibility. I am a Victorian Hotel with 27 steps up at the front.

There is a certain section of this country that won't be able to get up the 27 steps. So, yes. So all those different factors came into play when looking at the search engine optimization.

And really I think what it was very good at doing was making me focus on what was the important information that I thought that those people would be looking for as opposed to the lovely information. Maybe. I don't know if that's quite the right way of putting It. But yes, the difference between what was needed versus what was nice to have.

Sarah Orchard: 00:18:02

Yeah.

And maybe sometimes we think the certain as hosts, when we're putting together our websites or putting together things like digital guest guides, we think there's things that are important to the guest.

But actually, you know, like you've just said previously about being in the business, every day you've got a really good handle on what is important to them. And I suppose that's part of good marketing, isn't it?

It evolves over time and you've alluded to that in terms of, you know, actually refining your thinking about them and what's important to them and their sort of pain points and needs and then also the messaging and the SEO on the website as well.

Lindsay Holland: 00:18:42

That could have been more true. Absolutely, yes. When I moved to the hotel, having come out of London, and don't get me wrong, I was brought up in the country.

I am not a city, city person thrown through. But I came out and thought, well, I know exactly who's going to stay here.

They'll be in their 30s, coming out from London, they're going to want a wonderful weekend and great food, a real foodie experience, etc, etc, and then I realized, no, because I'm actually, I actually own a hotel that looks quite Victorian by nature.

It's very welcoming, it's very homely, but actually it's appealing to those in their retirement years because it looks sort of like their homes in a way.

Sarah Orchard: 00:19:23

Bit of nostalgia. I mean, nostalgia is a really strong marketing hook, isn't it, in terms of, and like the homely nature of the hotel.

Because actually when you go to a big, you know, hotel chain, or even if now with, you know, the proliferation of Airbnb, you might be staying in someone's home, but it's still probably quite a stylized apartment or element of their house and everyone's gone down that quite contemporary route. So actually there's a whole segment of guests who are probably looking for that home from home and that nostalgia element to their, to their trip.

Lindsay Holland: 00:19:55

And so therefore I've just, you know, after about six months, I think, or a year of being here, I just ripped the whole lot up and went, well, this isn't going to work at all. Start again.

Sarah Orchard: 00:20:05

But that's a massive learning point, isn't it, with any marketing, is that we make assumptions and then, you know, through going through the boot camp and writing your marketing strategy, you were like, ah, actually I can see that there's some things that, you know, you've learned over that Time period. It's like things that you've ruled out and gone. No, that's not.

And I mean, I know you're still trying to appeal to the 30 somethings, but they're probably not your majority of your audience, are they? So you've decided to focus in on the other segments as well.

Lindsay Holland: 00:20:32

And I think also that's the one thing we.

Again, being self employed and being independent, you don't honestly make time, as much time as you should for sitting down and actually focusing on these things.

And I think that's what going through the bootcamp does because you're actually pinned in a seat for a certain number of hours and you've actually got to think about it and you're like, oh, hold on a minute, I haven't actually thought about this for a while. And you're doing that thought process that really highlights the actual situation to you and making you think about things. And that's.

We, we just, we're not kind to ourselves when we're trying to run around and sort rooms and welcome guests and make breakfast and all those kind of bits and pieces. Actually spending time to think about things isn't something we often allow ourselves to do.

So again, just being able to sit down with the boot camp and go through all these different avatars highlighted so much stuff to me that I hadn't even known I'd known and did it.

Sarah Orchard: 00:21:31

Because it sounds like by having eight. And that's what I suppose I was worried about and being quite strict with you and saying you need to narrow it down to one or two.

And you were like, no, Adamant, it's eight. Has it made your marketing job more easy or more difficult?

Lindsay Holland: 00:21:46

Oh, much easier. Much, much easier. Because in actual fact, it feels like I've taken this really big pile of knotted wool and now pulled out all the different colors.

So now I know I've got eight different balls of wool rather than just one big mass of people that turn up through the front door. And actually one of the. I never forget you were.

We were talking, I think we were talking about Facebook ads and you said, well, you know, what brands are they using? What brands are they wearing or buying? And I thought, God, I haven't even thought about that.

And of course I suddenly realized I had all the information because the walkers sometimes need me to do some washing for them. So I know exactly where they're buying their pants. And you know, I.

The festival goers are bringing all of these beautiful outfits to wear either in March at the Gold cup or in November. For the races. And of course, they're coming in with hat bags and you see the brands.

So actually, what was something which probably to you was kind of like a. Just almost like a process thing to me, suddenly opened up this whole world of gosh, I know. Even more, you know, it was. Yeah, it was just fantastic.

Sarah Orchard: 00:22:54

And make your marketing job so much easier. And has it taken the guest experience and your renovation plans for the hotel in a specific direction as well?

Because you talked about, you know, when you came out of London, you were like, yeah, it's going to be 30 somethings. I can imagine that you were thinking about the interiors. We all sort of leap to the sort of the end product and the end guest experience.

This is what it's going to look like.

So has this process that you've gone through and through over the years and sort of refining your marketing, has it now shaped your guest experience as well?

Lindsay Holland: 00:23:24

Absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, in two very different ways. When I moved in, I was really anxious about the furniture because I thought it looked really old.

I was really worried that it really dated and I just thought, nobody's going to stay. They're all going to have issues with the wardrobes.

And in actual fact, now I'm clinging on to it because I'm like, no, actually, it fits in and it works. And so now I'm trying to make sure that they don't fall apart because I'm like, no, I need to keep these antiques going.

So, yeah, so in some ways it sort of changed that way. In other ways, it's really just solidified my thinking.

So, for example, the last big overhaul she had was in the 90s, and therefore there's some really interesting wallpapers still rocking around the building.

And I have to admit, I've always thought bedrooms should be quite a calm place because to me, it's about sleep and, you know, it's the old idea, you know, if you can't have a good night's sleep and you can't have a hot shower, what on earth are you staying in a hotel for? Kind of so as this, as these wallpapers have decided to remove themselves from the wall. So I've. I've gone in with very muted tones.

But the one thing that I haven't actually mentioned about the hotel is we have probably some of the most phenomenal views in the Cotswolds. And overlooking the estuary and over to the Morven hills is breathtaking. Absolutely breathtaking sometimes.

And I have never wanted the rooms to fight the view. I've always wanted the view to be the bit that stands out.

So for me, the beautiful colours that I get from outside with the autumnal colours or the spring or the summer shine through. So for me, that it's about calming the rooms down while still holding on to my antique furniture and providing about 14 plugs per person.

But that sort of wanting to ensure that the view takes the pride of place has solidified because everybody walks into the room and goes, the view. And you're like, yes, works.

Sarah Orchard: 00:25:23

So you know what your USP is. I mean, obviously you're right on the Cotswold Way, but that view.

And it's so interesting because so many sort of contemporary, sort of boutique hotels and they all go down the sort of. The dark colors and all the sometimes quite loud wallpaper and it's really interesting.

You know, this isn't an interior show, but, you know, we were talking. You were talking about. And it's such an important part of the guest experience, isn't it?

It's like knowing that the view is like the hero of the location and what the hotel has to offer and shaping everything that you're doing with the hotel, with the renovation and the guest experience, to not fight with that because.

Lindsay Holland: 00:26:04

Sorry, I was just going to say, you know, actually, what's really interesting is that having that very simple decor automatically means that those of an older generation go, oh, it's really clean and clear and. And simple and calm. Oh, it's. It's really nice. You know, because they're not into the bonkers wallpaper and the, you know, all the flamingos and.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Mainly because most of them tell me they've seen it before a few times round, so they don't really want to see it again.

But it's, you know, again, it's just. It's just that little note in my head that goes, you know, I'm doing the right thing. This is. This is. This is okay. This is.

Yeah, people are happy with what I'm doing.

Sarah Orchard: 00:26:47

I think you're doing a fantastic job and it's been fascinating talking with you today. And I think, you know, the key takeaway is that, like, knowing your guests and being like.

And you've got the eight to contend with, but being true to them and letting that guide you in terms of everything that you're doing from your guest experience and even your renovation plans right through to your sort of marketing and search engine optimization and making decisions about the business is all centered on your ideal guests, which obviously is helping to keep you Filled throughout the year.

Lindsay Holland: 00:27:19

Absolutely.

And I think I'd say to anybody that's got their own business, don't be scared of asking questions, don't be scared of noting down what the guests are doing or what they're wearing or, you know, any of those bits or what they do, what they get up to.

Because at the end of the day, it's, it's really that input that has driven me to, to really iron out exactly who, who comes to the hotel automatically, but also who I want to come to the hotel and who's gonna be happy at the hotel.

Because it makes sense to really market those people that will be happy rather than the ones that probably aren't really going to get what you're up to or what you're trying to aim at.

So, Yes, I would 100% say to anybody, just keep chatting, keep talking, keep learning, keep absorbing and see who works and who doesn't work in your environment.

Sarah Orchard: 00:28:09

That's absolute gold dust. That tip, in terms of sort of. I think we'll take that as the tip for the episode is ask questions because your guests have all the answers.

And when you're actually in business and you're running the business, you can get those insights, you know, directly from the horse's mouth rather than having to try and, you know, second guess, you know, what they like to do, where they like to go, the brands that they are aligned to and have affinity to and the things that, you know, they probably tell you that they want and don't want. So you fed that back into your business.

Lindsay Holland: 00:28:42

Yeah, very much so. Very much so.

Sarah Orchard: 00:28:44

Thank you, Lindsey, for joining us today. I've thoroughly enjoyed, you know, talking to you more about the hotel and you've proved me wrong in terms of my stick to one or two guest avatars.

I'm always open to learning too. So it's been an absolute pleasure working with you over the last couple of years and getting to know your business a bit better.

Lindsay Holland: 00:29:04

Oh, it's a pleasure talking you through. And maybe not everybody should aspire to wait because I think we'd all have a lot more headaches. But on the odd occasion, on the.

Sarah Orchard: 00:29:15

Odd occasion, I'll let people off.

Lindsay Holland: 00:29:17

Yeah.

Sarah Orchard: 00:29:18

So thank you, Lindsay, for joining us today.

Lindsay Holland: 00:29:21

Pleasure.

Sarah Orchard: 00:29:21

Thanks for listening.

I will be back next week with more actionable marketing tips and a handful of real life hosts and their experiences with their marketing to get more direct bookings. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you could leave me a review. You know exactly how much us hosts. Love those five star reviews.

See you next time. Thank you for listening to Get Fully Booked with Sarah Orchard.

If you want to see if you are ready to ditch the likes of Airbnb and grow your direct bookings, put your business to the test with my FREE Direct Booking Roadmap Quiz, Head to my website, get-fully-booked.com/quiz and let's get you more direct bookings and more profit in your pocket!

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