“I hope that any time someone finds a new place that they love, that they want to protect and conserve that place.”

Tory Mather is the author of Scenic Natural Wonders of Pennsylvania and the creator of Tory Talks Trails.

She came to the project when a leg injury in 2021 gave her the time to write about hikes from her Cleveland years. As her mobility returned, the blog grew. A publisher commissioned her to catalog 84 scenic spots across the state, formatted with practical tips for every kind of visitor.

The research consumed most of a year. Tory would leave Pittsburgh on Thursday afternoons, drive to wherever her next cluster of sites was, and spend the weekends hiking and taking notes.

Building a platform to bring more people outdoors creates a responsibility to do so well.

And so Tory practices Leave No Trace, keeps strict screen time limits to protect her own relationship with hiking, and increasingly uses her platform for conservation stories. A couple of these include land threatened by data center development and volunteer groups doing quiet stewardship.

The book is an entry point. What she cares about most is what comes next, when a reader visits a place and decides they don't want to lose it.

Key Topics:

• From Leg Injury to Book Commission (1:37)
• 84 Places for Everybody in Pennsylvania (3:49)
• The Spreadsheet Behind the Book (11:19)
• Tory’s Favorite Place in Pennsylvania (13:24)
• Hiking for Yourself, Not for Your Feed (17:55)
• Leave No Trace and Don't Skip the Poncho (21:52)
• Data Centers, Elk, and What's Coming Next (24:26)
• Getting People Outside and Getting Them to Care (26:33)

Resources:

• My Trails Are Many: https://mytrailsaremany.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/torytalkstrails/
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@torytalkstrails?_t=8hxFM2sFpVu&_r=1
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@torytalkstrails

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The Pennsylvania Parks and Forests Foundation inspires stewardship of YOUR state parks and forests through volunteerism, education, recreation, and philanthropy.

Learn more, find events, download outdoor resources, and get involved!

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🎶 Podcast music provided by Evan Mongeau

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I like when people message me. Oh, I went to this place because of you, and it was super cool. That's awesome. I love when people message me and are like, I called my state senator because of something you said, like, please call your friends and donate your money and donate your time, like that's what I care about the most. So, because

we want these lands to be here, we all have to work together.

I totally agree.

Imagine a place where stress fades, fresh air fills your lungs, and adventure awaits around every corner. Welcome to Think outside, the podcast that inspires you to explore, connect, and embrace the outdoors. Welcome to Think Outside with the Pennsylvania Parks and Forest Foundation. I'm your host, Marcy Mallory, and today we're here with Tori Mather, who recently wrote Scenic Natural Wonders of Pennsylvania and is the creator of Tori Talks Trails. Tori, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to diving into a little bit about your book and what has inspired your creative journey, but I want to let our listeners know that we are thinking outside and we're recording in the backyard, so you may hear sounds of birds and dogs and all the wonderful things that come with being in the outdoors, it's the best. It's great ambiance for the podcast, and what we're going to talk about. Yeah, your book was was very interesting. I took your advice, I didn't read it cover to cover, I flipped through it. And I want to start by asking you, what inspired you to write this book?

So I have loved reading and writing for my entire life, like I was that kid that had a book in the back seat of my mom's car while doing errands. I am still a voracious reader. I have kept journals for most of my life. I do not recommend reading your middle school journals. It is very embarrassing, but I've always loved writing, and so I started my blog, My Trails Are Many, in 2021 I had, we'd moved to Pittsburgh in August, and in December I had a leg injury, where I couldn't go outside and do like any of my hobbies, and I was losing my mind. So I was like, okay, well, I've always loved writing, and we used to live in Cleveland, so I'll write about all these cool hikes that I did in Cleveland, and then as my leg got better, I started hiking more in Pittsburgh and in the Pittsburgh area, and then started writing about those hikes as well, and I'd always wanted to write a book, I thought it would be like romance or fantasy, so this is a different genre than I expected that I would write, but in 2024 I had thought, like, you know, I love doing the blog, and let me see if any publishers would be interested in some something.

Well, it is sort of a romance book, it's romancing nature, and yes, some of these places that you outline are pretty romantic places you could go with,

I would think. So, yeah,

so you were keeping a blog. How did you know when you had enough content to turn it into a book?

I think that, so I always say that I could literally.. so I work a job in corporate America, and I always say that I could quit tomorrow, go literally nowhere else for two years, and I would still be writing my backlog. So, I think I always.. I had a lot of stuff that I had always been thinking about. I actually pitched a different idea to my publisher, and they.. they are great, but they were like, yeah, we're not interested in that idea, but we're starting this series called Scenic Natural Wonders. We're trying to do one in every state. Would you be interested in doing the Pennsylvania one? So, okay, yeah.

And is that how you came up with the with the outline? Because one of the things that impressed me is it wasn't just trails, it was a variety of things that could appeal to a really large cross section of people.

Yeah, that was the goal, was to make sure that every single person, any person in the state who got the book, they would be able to find something in the book for them, whether it was like close to their house. So I tried to make sure I feel like a lot of statewide books very much focus on, you know, the Harrisburg, the Pittsburgh, the Philadelphia, and I wanted to make sure everybody in the state felt included in this book and have lots of different levels of accessibility as well, so if you can't hike anywhere at all, you

still may be able to go to like a roadside vista, so trying to make sure that there was something for everybody in there, and that's really important, and that's particularly important to us at the Pennsylvania Parks and Forest Foundation, we are really encouraging accessibility and helping and trying to help people find the information, because that's one of the things that we hear from people is I don't know where to go, and I think that your book does a really good job of not just here's a place to go, but here are some helpful tips once you get. There, so how did you come up with that format?

I can't take credit for that, that my publisher came up with. Here, okay? You have 84 spots in the book, you're gonna write a summary of them, and then include the things to know at the bottom, so that was the format that they chose for the series. Yeah, so okay, I

like that. During the writing process, is there anything that that surprised you.

I think I thought that writing would be this very linear process, and that's kind of how it was for me in my blog, where it's, you know, I have an idea, I do the research, I write the thing, I add the photos, I caption the photos, I add the links, I hit publish, and then I'll go back and edit it, like every six months, to make sure the info is updated with the book. It was very much more of like a circular process, where I would write something, it would get edited, they would send it back to me, I would edit it, I'd send it back to them, they would edit it again, and so we did that, like probably 10 or 14 times, so a lot more of a circular process than I expected, but I think having been through it once I would now expect that for a book, so.

And it has that circular process influenced your blog at all?

I definitely, when I first started my blog, it was a little more.. it wasn't fully like diary or journal, but it was more like this is my experience on this day, and here's how it went, and now I try to have more of like a journalistic angle to certain things, so trying to talk to people to get primary sources from like a park ranger or you know someone that works at a cave or someone that like knows the experience that I can quote, or and also like really fact checking everything. Obviously, when I started my blog, I was just kind of like, I like writing, and let me keep writing this thing, but the more I feel like the more of a platform you have, the more of a obligation you have to make sure that your information is like super 100% correct, and obviously I'm human, I'm not going to get everything right, but the due diligence should be there that I tried, so

and I think people appreciate that, they see that and they know that you're a trusted source and that's important,

that's good to hear. I try.

Did you have any particular reader in mind as you were writing the book?

I wanted it to appeal to someone who maybe is either just starting to get outdoors or wants to get outdoors, but isn't sure how to get started. It's not for, well, I mean, it could be, but I didn't have like someone who hikes every single day of the year, and you know, does 15 to 25 mile days, like this book is supposed to be more for families or people who just like casually more, a more casual outside person, but I do think it could apply to both, because there are some interesting places to visit, that yeah, and there are a couple pretty hard hikes in there that I was suffering,

and sometimes you just want something that's just not 15 or 20 miles, maybe I think it's a little bit different, or you're taking somebody that you're introducing to the outdoors, yes, and this would be a good companion for that,

I hope. So I do really hope that it's something that people can throw in their car, and you know, if they're in an area that they haven't been before, flip through the book and figure out, oh, this is nearby, or this is a place that I could go. So, so, how did your Tori Talks Trails, how did that influence the book, and what was the evolution of Tori Talks Trails? I started my Instagram because I thought that all bloggers like had to have social media to promote their blog, so I was like, okay, well, I have my blog and I'll start this Instagram, and as I was promoting blog posts, I really enjoyed the video format, and so a lot of my videos now I would say, are like talking to the camera, or you know, trying to make fun of myself a little bit, kind of more humorous, and that's something that when you're trying to, you know, put facts into a blog post, that's not a creative side that can come out as much, and I can be a lot more like my personality can come through a lot more on social media. Yeah,

so I'm sitting here thinking, she works corporate America, she wrote a book, she has a blog, she has an Instagram. I don't sleep. That was gonna ask, do you sleep?

I do sleep. I, it's one of those things where I am someone who, like, I always have my eye on, okay, what do I want to do next? I have like 30,000 ideas that I always want to do something, and I just am, I'm wired that way. I'm not, I'm not good at resting. I would say

that's not a bad thing.

Yeah,

I mean, if you find your balance,

yes, yes, there, there were definitely times last year, especially towards crunch time, so my main. Script was due in mid August of 2025 and I think like June, July, and early August were pretty rough. Like, I was, as I was researching for the book, I was basically like leaving Pittsburgh on a Thursday afternoon after work, and would drive to wherever I was going to be, I would work remote on Fridays, because I can work remote on Fridays, and then I would explore all weekend, and then drive home Sunday night, and so then I would spend the week like copying my notes and writing the sections of what I had done, and then I would repeat it all again on the Thursday, so there were times where it was like there were 15 weekends and I was gone for 14 of them, so that was that was a hard part of writing the book, as I did not get my money's worth on my mortgage, I didn't see my dog that much, I didn't see my husband, and so it is this year I have blocked specific, I still obviously love traveling around Pennsylvania and just traveling in general, but I have blocked specific weekends to be in Pittsburgh to like see my friends and go on dates at restaurants and do local things, because I, I love living in Pittsburgh, and I want to experience it, which I did not get to do last summer.

Yeah, Pittsburgh is a great city.

Yeah,

so how did you land on the places that you've included, and maybe you can share a few of your favorite places?

Yeah, that is a great question, and I love talking about this, because I am a spreadsheet person. I love a good spreadsheet, and so when I officially signed my contract, and was like, oh gosh, I need to pick 84 places, and then I have to make sure I go to all them, and have good pictures, and do all the research, and I was very overwhelmed by the thought of that, that's a lot to think about when you have written zero words, and so I created the spreadsheet that was all the potential places I wanted to include, did a bunch of research for even just like where would I potentially include, and then map them out throughout the state, tried to make sure I had a mix of different things, I like to joke that, like, if I wrote this book the way that I wanted to, it would be 84 waterfalls, because I love waterfalls, but I know that not everybody feels that way. So, making sure I had a mix of different things, making sure I had a mix of, you know, distances and accessibility and places in the state. So, basically, over the course of the eight-ish months that I was writing, I would, you know, take things off the main spreadsheet and put them on a reject spreadsheet if I didn't want it, and so I finally got down to, you know, it was 100 and then it was 90, and then it was okay, now we're at 84 and these are our places, so there's a couple spots that I actually wrote about, but didn't end up including last minute, so like replace them with other spots. So, do you have a place that really stood out to you? I mean, I think so. One of the questions I get asked a lot is, like, if you could recommend only one place in Pennsylvania, where would you recommend? And I think that answer is Ricketts Glen. I think it's so, I mean, it's so incredible as a waterfall person, have 22 named waterfalls and not that many miles of trail, like I was. I went with a friend who had been there before, and she knew how much I was going to love it, so she was excited for me to experience it, and that was one where I knew I hadn't been there before I started writing the book, but I knew I knew that was going in, like that was always on my bucket list. It was definitely going in the book, but I think, like, in terms of my favorite place, that's hard. I really like a lot of them. I, Tannersville Cranberry Bog Preserve in northeastern Pennsylvania was one of my favorites, and that is because I saw an otter there in real life, and that was one of the coolest nature experiences I've ever had. Yeah,

yeah, I think it's hard to pick your favorite because it depends on your mood, it depends on who you're with, you know, there are a lot of other factors, it could even depend on the experience that you had while you were there, like seeing an otter,

yes,

and having something memorable happen,

yeah, or like having something memorable happen in a bad way, like, oh, I saw a rattlesnake that freaked me out, or you know, somebody was creepy to me in the parking lot, like it does really depend on the day and the season, and that's why I like going back to places, because if I loved a place in spring, like, will I also love it in fall, and will I, is it also great to visit in winter, and it's so fun to see the different seasons.

I was excited to see Hammond Rocks in there, because that at one point had been tagged so badly. Yes, we led an effort to clean it, and now to see it recommended in your book is like, yes, we've reclaimed it for the people to enjoy that amazing rock outcropping,

yeah, and that because rocks are not something that I like had that much knowledge or background info about, but learning about like places like Hammonds Rocks and the Hickory Run Boulder Field. Old builders rocks, like all of those places, are so interesting in their geologic history, that I mean, even if I had just visited without writing the book, I don't know that I would have dug that deep and learned that much. So,

yes, and you're the rock shelter in there too, the name of just got out of my head, close to Pittsburgh. Yes, yeah, that is just.. I was there last year, and it was just so fascinating to think about all of that history,

yeah,

in one spot,

yeah. It's hard, I know, and it's one of those things where that was one where I was a little bit back and forth about, because it's.. it's.. it's not something that looks particularly spectacular in pictures, and I think for a book like this, sometimes you know people are flipping through, they want to see something amazing that pops out in a picture, but for me, why I kept it in is the history and also like the preservation efforts are really important for people to learn about, and if you know somebody else happens to discover a place like that, like the guy that found the first artifact waited for the perfect person to, like, excavate the land. I think that is, that's such a great lesson in, you know, conservation and preservation of our history.

I agree, he waited what, decades, yeah, the person that would look at it and say this is this is something for everybody.

Yes,

and to sit on that secret, I know I can't even

like keep a surprise, a gift, a surprise. I would struggle really hard with something like that.

I'm just gonna pick up the book here for a second, because honestly, I didn't have.. I'm just gonna open Chickies Rock. I grew up in overlooking Chick-fil-A's Rock, I grew up in Columbia.

Nice, that was a really cool one. I got to see it at sunset, one of the times that I went. That was really nice, and the Pinnacle Overlook too. I saw that at sunrise, that was super cool. Recipe Falls, that was new to me. Yeah, that was one that, as I was researching, I knew I had a trip to the Poconos planned, and I mean, the Poconos has so many amazing waterfalls and areas to go, and that was one where I was like, oh, I'll probably just stop there and, you know, take some photos for social media, but I don't even think it was on my list for the book, and then I went there, and I thought that the story of.. so it's on private land, it's on a Boy Scout camp, but there is a.. I believe it's a conservation easement with the township that it's in to let people onto the that specific area to look at the waterfall at the Boy Scout camp, and so that like public-private partnership, I thought, was such an interesting role model. Yes, yeah.

And I love the fact, like, you have Mount Washington Overlook, so what isn't just what we can consider natural areas, but you know, there's so many different ways to look at the world, and you're, you've included those.

Yeah,

so you're out and about a lot, you're spending a lot of time in nature. Is there one particular habit that helps you stay grounded or connected when things are really busy, you've got a massive spreadsheet in front of you. How do you stay grounded? That's

a great question. I, I think so. When I was starting, probably like two years into writing for my blog and doing social media before the book was like anything, I was, I felt like I was getting really burned out, and I kept thinking, like, oh, I'm hiking, and I'm only like doing my hike so that I can fill my hike, and I was like, that's dumb, I got into this hobby because I love it, and so I really try to make sure that, like, my enjoyment of the activity comes first, and then any photos or videos or writing or research that I do comes second, because, like, hiking is for me and my mental health. So I, there are times where I will hike, I will take no photos, like no one will know that I did it, other than my Garmin watch, and I think keeping that, like, boundary is very important, and I, I talked to a lot of other, especially social media people, about mental health, and I think, like, I have less social media time than, like, most just normal people that I know, because I don't go on any social media before noon. I haven't done that for the last two years. I have really strict screen time limits. I set my phone in grayscale and accept, like, the accessibility mode, so that I'm not, you know, it looks boring if it's in gray scale, I'm not tempted to pick it up. I don't have notifications on, so if somebody sends me a DM or like, like something on my page, I have to go in to get my notifications, and I think that that boundary is really important, because it social media is designed, there are good parts of social. Media and social media is designed to like keep the user scrolling, and I think that that can, if you don't set those limits for yourself, like that can be really tough for people.

I think listeners are probably going to be surprised that you have those boundaries, but there are so many.

Thank you. Yeah, there are.. I feel like every creator I talk to when I tell them about that, they're like, oh my god, I could never do that. I was like, yeah, I thought I couldn't either. And then I did it, and my life is so much better,

because you can just get sucked in, and that's that's your day. All of a sudden, your time in nature is gone, your time with family and friends has disappeared.

I, I saw someone online who had the advice, like, if you are a creator, create more than you consume, and so I feel like that kind of clicked for me in my brain, where a lot of my stuff I will, like, write it in my notes app or in a Google Doc, instead of, like, you know, in the platform I create outside of social media, so I use Cap Cut to edit my videos, and I just try to keep everything as separate as possible, because I don't, I, I know how addicting it is, and so I don't want to get sucked in, and I'm not saying, like, I'm not saying I don't scroll, like I love, I mentioned I love reading, like I love scrolling book talk, I love reading, like hearing about what people are reading, and so I can lose an hour that way, but that's why I started the limits, because I was spending too much time on it.

Yeah, yeah, I like a good dog video.

Yes, yes, I love dog videos.

So I'm thinking about people heading out to visit one of the sites in your book, or reading your blog, or following you on Instagram, what preparation tip do you wish more people knew about before they head into the outdoors?

That it's a good question. I think really familiarizing yourself with the principles of Leave No Trace, that was something when I started hiking, I had no idea what they were. I didn't even know that they existed, and I actually, I know, like, I just went off and said that social media is bad sometimes, but I think one of the good things about social media is it teaches people a lot of things, and so I actually learned about Leave No Trace from Instagram, and was like, oh, I didn't know that you're supposed to, you know, walk through the muddy trail, instead of going off trail and creating, you know, social trails just to keep your feet dry, and I did it. Obviously, I think everybody hopefully knows, like, pack out your trash, like that's just basic human kindness. Yeah, and so I always feel like if someone's not packing out their trash, like, you, you know, you're just, you're just a jerk, like that's that's not a knowledge issue, but you know, like campfire safety and making sure that it's cool to the touch, and staying away from wildlife, like all things that once you learn them, and you're like, oh, this is a no brainer, but if you don't know what you don't know, so I think that is probably the most important, and then one that I feel like I need to, like, refresh myself with is the plan ahead and be prepared, because when I first started hiking, I was like, okay, I need to make sure I have all the 10 essentials in my bag, and I need to look at the weather 16 times, and I, you know, need to know my route, and I need to have two different maps, and then as you get more confident with it, you're like, that's probably fine, I don't really mean my poncho. And then you're like, no, I live in Pennsylvania, and now I am soaked. So that's one that I, I feel like I had deviated from a little bit, and have recently got very wet on hikes, or very cold, and I was like, okay, I'm just, everything's gonna stay in the car, I like, so I have it all, and I'll be good to go.

Yeah, just carry it,

yeah,

yeah. And I think part of the plan ahead and be prepared is also letting somebody know where you're going. Yes, absolutely, that's so important. And sometimes we think, as adults, well, I'm fine, I need to do that, but no, you do.

Yes,

make it easier on everybody.

Yes, and I think, especially, like, I feel like one of the questions I get asked a lot is, like, aren't you scared as a solo female hiker, and it's like, yeah, sometimes I am scared, but also a lot of the times, like, I have, you know, I have a plan, and I have my maps, and I have let somebody know where I am, and I let them know when I'm supposed to be back, so it's all good,

yeah,

yeah, being

prepared can help alleviate some of those fears.

Exactly,

are there any places you're hoping to explore or any stories you're hoping to tell in the coming year?

I am very interested in data centers and how they are impacting our state, and so that's something I have been doing more research on. I'm not a tech person, so I knew nothing about them, and you know it's everywhere. I have gone this year, I have taught people have talked to me about data centers, and it's something that I think is like transcending political lines, and so that those are the stories that I'm very interested in telling right now. And then, in terms of places, I'm excited. I'm going back to the PA Wilds in the fall. I have not seen an elk yet, and so that is my goal for this year, is to finally see an elk. Hopefully they were all hiding the last time I was there, so

I'm sure you'll see

one. Yes, yeah, the one

of the last times I was there, every time I would talk, the elk would bugle, and apparently I sound like a female elk. Let me know when you're going. I'll go and I'll chatter, and they can even bugle. That's awesome

there. And especially now that I have, like, instead of just my phone, I have like a fancier camera with the zoom lens and everything, and I, I got the camera to take landscape photos, and then all I do is take like bird photos and wildlife photos, so I am very excited to take the camera to go see some elk.

Yeah, there's, they're so amazing. I can remember the first time my one stepson saw one and he was like, they're big deer. Yeah, yes.

Well, that sounds like a good trip. How do you hope your work continues to shape the outdoor community? I hope that anytime someone finds a new place that they love, that they want to protect and conserve that place. So, whether they donate to the conservancy or the land steward that runs it, start volunteering, even just when they go up, like when they go out to wherever it is, if they pick up trash while they are there, I think the more people I feel like one of the complaints against social media is like, oh, it's getting more people, and some of these places are overrun, and I think there is validity to that. On the other side, I think getting more people outside inherently is not a bad thing, I think, as long as they're doing it responsibly, and you know they're not all going to the same four places, and we're being good stewards of the outdoors. I think getting more people outside and getting them to be outdoors responsibly, those people will then care for the land, care about the land, teach others to care for the land, and I think that will help us all be better in the future. So, that's that's what I want people to do from my work,

and I think that's one of the things that the book helps with, is that sometimes you have a destination in mind, and if you arrive at that destination and the trail head is packed. Don't make yourself a parking space. Maybe flip through the book and find something someplace else nearby. And we always say that, you know, visiting these places is a way to advocate for them. Yes, you know. And my hope, too, is that your work that are inspiring people is you inspire them to be a voice for the outdoor spaces that we share in Pennsylvania. Yes, I would love that. I, I love when people message me, or I like when people message me. Oh, I went to this place because of you, and it was super cool. That's awesome. I love when people message me and are like, I called my state senator because of something you said, like, please call your reps and

donate your money and donate your time, like that's what I care about the most. So,

if we want these lands to be here, we all have to work together.

I totally agree.

As we start to ramp up, is there a question that you wish people would ask you about your work?

I like that question, and I am not sure. One of the things that I enjoy being asked is, have you ever had any scary animal encounters? And in, I would say, in Pennsylvania, I have not, but when we were hiking in Austria and England, you often hike through these like farmer fields, and so I am terrified of cows, and people are like, "Oh, cows, they're, you know, they're so friendly. But you go through some of these fields, and there are signs that are like, "Beware of bull, and like calving mothers, like cows can attack, and so that's my scary, scary animal, and because people are always like, "Oh, are you scared of bears? or, you know, scared of, I don't know, wolves, like, no more scared of ticks, honestly.

Yeah, but

those are, you know, you can prevent against those. So,

and even Cowan, Cal, and Couch, or yes, yes. Is there any other thing as we start to wrap up? Is there anything that you'd like to share about the book, or your, or your work, or any of your future plans?

I I am trying to tell more stories about, like, volunteer organizations and the work that they've done, or upcoming volunteer events to try to get people outside, or, you know, this piece of land they sold it to a data center, and, like, we need to try to work to conserve it, like I want to try to use my platform to tell those stories. So, if people have anything like that, like I would love to know about it. I would love to talk to somebody. So, you can send me a message on Instagram, Tori Talk to Trails, to your ROI, or you can just send me an email as well.

Yeah, and we'll link to your blog and your Instagram and any other. Connections that you want us to have to make it easier for the listeners to find you. Well, thank you, Tori. Thank you for being here. And if you haven't picked it up, listeners, Scenic Natural Wanderers of Pennsylvania by Tori Mather, available where most books are purchased. Yeah, online. Yeah, we got our copy.

Yeah, so you can order directly through me if you want an autographed copy. There are links on my website and on my social media, and you can also get it where books are sold. And if there's a bookstore that doesn't have it and you want them to have it, tell them to order it, because we love supporting independent bookstores.

Yes, yes. So advocate, and when you're visiting these amazing places, don't forget to visit the downtowns that are close to them.

Yes,

all right. Thank you for

having me.

Yeah, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening to Think Outside, where every episode invites you to discover new places, build confidence, and find inspiration in nature. Love the show. Subscribe for more inspiration. Share with a fellow explorer, and let's keep thinking outside together. For more resources and inspiration, visit Think Outside podcast.org