Lydia Mihalik translates her experience as a top leader — former mayor of Findlay, Ohio — to her position as director of the Ohio Department of Development, where she’s adjusted to not only managing a team but also supporting Gov. Mike DeWine and Lt. Gov. Jon Husted in their leadership roles. She does that by serving others at her highest capacity, making the best use of available resources and systems, and, most importantly, surrounding herself with a great team. Cultivating collaborations, she prioritizes relationships and seeks solutions for both parties to build a reputation of trust to last beyond her administration.

Trevor Brown 0:04

welcome to the podcast leadership forum, a conversation with leaders who serve the public good. My name is Trevor Brown, and I'm privileged to serve as Dean of the John Glenn College of Public Affairs at The Ohio State University, where we aspire to fulfill a simple phrase that Senator John Glenn used to describe what we do, inspire citizenship and develop leadership. I also have the honor of serving as the host of this conversation series. So welcome to a thoughtful and reflective conversation about leadership. I'm joined today by Lydia Mihalik, the director of the Ohio Department of Development, a state agency committed to empowering communities to succeed by investing in the people, places and businesses of Ohio. Prior to her role as director, she served as the 55th, Mayor of the City of Findlay, in northwest Ohio, where she led the revitalization of the city's downtown attracting new job creators from around the world. And now Findlay has repeatedly been selected by site selector magazine as the top top micropolitan in the nation for economic development and job creation for almost a decade. So Director Mihalik, thank you for joining me for a conversation about leadership broadly and economic development here in Ohio.

Lydia Mihalik 1:21

Oh, you're welcome. Thanks so much for having me.

Trevor Brown 1:24

So let's just start by learning director Mihalik's approach to leadership, you've been a mayor, you've been now in a state agency, just what's your sort of general approach to leadership?

Lydia Mihalik 1:36

That's a great question a long time ago, someone very wise, that I think has demonstrated a, a tremendous amount of leadership, quality leadership, and has done some great things in the private sector, told me that leadership is best demonstrated by giving back to others. And I think, you know, when when you're in a role, and you're, you're trying to achieve big things, I think one of one of the most important things that you can do is to build a good team around you. And we never do anything by ourselves, obviously. And so I think one, you got to have a good team around you. And then two, I think what you do with that team, and the people that you impact with the time and the resources, and the responsibility that you've been given in that leadership role, I think is, is really, really important. And so whenever I've, you know, in, in my public service roles, whether that's, you know, serving in community and economic development positions early on, right out of college, or, you know, being in an elected position, or an appointed position as I am now, I've tried to do my best to serve others at the highest capacity that I can. And I've done that with with a great team around me.

Trevor Brown 2:59

But you're a clear servant leader. That is something we want to encourage among all of our community members. But I'm curious, you've had you've been in in two distinct executive roles, one elected one appointed?

Lydia Mihalik 3:16

Yeah.

Trevor Brown 3:17

Any any major differences in your approach to leading and building a team as a result of on the one hand being accountable to directly to the voters? And then the other, indirectly being accountable to the voters through an elected official?

Lydia Mihalik 3:35

Yeah, so I think there's a couple of things to note there. First of all, being mayor of a community, whether it's large or small, is quite frankly, one of the the coolest and best jobs I think that you can have. It's the closest position to the people, I think you get the chance to really make your mark and to leave the community that you're serving better than what you found it in. And I'm very proud of the work that I did with the team at the city of Findlay. And I think but for Governor DeWine Lieutenant Governor Husted asking me to join this team. I would have been perfectly happy being mayor for as long as the city of Findlay would have had me. But when I had the chance to join this team, I am so glad I said yes. Because we've been able to do some really incredible things on behalf of communities across the state. And I've been able to take the experience that I had as mayor and kind of translate that here into this appointed position. I will say it's a lot different in terms of how you how you make decisions and how you, you manage things going from I would say kind of like a Number one to like, number three. So that was a bit of an adjustment for me. But it didn't take me long to figure it out. And I think that, that your, your leadership style is still the same, right? You want to look to do the best you can with the resources and the people and the systems that you have at your fingertips. But I think definitely being able to kind of be like the guy to being, you know, someone who is is responsible, not just to directly to the people, but someone who's responsible to a couple of different people. That that was different for me. But I'm so glad that I said, Yes, I told the governor this a couple of weeks ago, it is completely different from what I thought it would be. But it's been an incredible experience. And we've certainly had some really big wins and and been able to affect a lot of things for communities in this state. And gosh, we're not done yet. We've still got another three and a half or so. months left to go.

Trevor Brown 6:15

Years.

Lydia Mihalik 6:16

No, sorry. Yes, years. Right here.

Trevor Brown 6:20

You've got time you've got Yeah, yeah. Well, I want to I want to talk in a minute about the specific role that you play. But the two things that I want to come back to that I want you to elaborate on. So So first, you just said that in this job, the role you're in is a lot different than you you thought it would be. Yeah. How so what what was what was different? And how did you adapt and adjust to that?

Lydia Mihalik 6:43

Trevor Brown 8:44

Right, great one, one more leadership related question. And then I want to get to those millions and billions of dollars. So earlier, you mentioned that there was an adjustment from going from being the number one to the number three. Yeah, and I'm curious about that number three role. I would imagine, you can correct me if I'm wrong, that there are some times in your role where you have to lead, you are leading the Department of Development, and then other times where you're that number three, and you have to follow? Yeah. So how do you know other than somebody telling you the number two or the number one? How do you know when to lead and when to follow when you're in a role like this?

Lydia Mihalik 9:25

Yeah. So I think that's a really good question. And first of all, I, you know, I, you know, I kind of jokingly say, number three, but I'd recognize that I'm one of several members of the cabinet. And we all have a very important jobs to do. So first and foremost, you know, the buck stops here in terms of leading the Department of Development. And I know that I know that it's my job to take what has been set in terms of the agenda from the administration and do what we need to do at development to accomplish those goals. So we, you know, we deploy, you know, our mission here, which is empowering communities to succeed, to fulfill that, that agenda that the administration has. So, the team is fully aware of, you know, what, what our roles and responsibilities are here and, and I totally am comfortable in that space. What I would say, that is, that has been kind of an adjustment is, I am in this role, I have been consistently like looking out for and then seeking to be more proactive and seeking ways to help the Governor and Lieutenant Governor be successful in their roles as as leaders in in for the state. And so, whereas when I was mayor for seven years of Findlay like I was trying to help other people certainly around me, but I had great people around me that were doing that for me. So I think if that's a way to kind of describe the difference, you know, your your there's certainly people around you that you want to help bring up and do good things. But you know that that was the position? That's the position I've been in now for the last four years.

Great. No,thanks for sharing that. Okay. Now, let's move on to those millions and billions.

Everybody always wants to talk about the money.

Yeah,well, well, but let's let's go like a level above that, before we even get to the money. So just describe why or explain why the government is involved in an economic development, why don't we just leave firm location and job creation to the to the market? Why don't we just let market forces decide? Who decides to go, where?

Yeah, so that's a, that's a great question. And, you know, if, if, if, at the end of the day, that was how this all could work, and then I look, I would be really happy. But there are things that exist, unfortunately, you know, the, the economy is not equal in all parts of the state, or even the country. And sometimes in order for projects to happen, regardless of where they are, there is increased cost associated with with them, and especially in this economy. So, you know, the, with inflation and those types of things, there, there's a need for, you know, assistance. And the, the goal, the end goal is to someday be in a position to where we don't need to be providing so much what I would call public assistance to, to projects, and perhaps maybe we will get there to where there's just this virtuous cycle where the market can just handle it on its own. But for example, if you have a major metropolitan area that perhaps has an old industrial site, that without the help of maybe some public entity, you know, would not have the capability of having some sort of brownfield redevelopment or infill development, and it would just stay there vacant, for you know, a number of years. But with the public assistance, a private investor, can actually get the project done where they can make a profit. Profit is not a dirty word. You know, there are a lot of companies that, that do things, you know, to make money. And so that's what we want, right? Because if they're making money, then they're investing in people, and they're investing in communities. And it just continues to turn itself over. And so that's what we see, you know, our role in in terms of economic development, deals, big deals, little deals are very competitive, regardless of where you're at across the country. And we feel like, one, our job is to make sure that we have an environment that's conducive for investment. So we take care of the things that we know that we can take care of. But but, two, there, there are ways that we need to make sure that we can incentivize development because people have a choice companies have a choice where they're going to invest their dollar and we want them to do that here. And sometimes there are expenses that we can be helpful with.

Yeah, so just elaborate a little bit. You don't have to go too deep in the weeds, but what are the sort of two or three principles tools that the Department of Development uses to create those conditions or incentivize firms to come to Ohio?

Sure. So first and foremost, what I would say is we have something called a job creation tax credit. And the credit can be claimed against a company's commercial activities tax, which is, is one of the only taxes if not the tax that businesses have in Ohio. And so that that particular tax incentive is, is what I would say probably the most popular and the one that we use, that is the most attractive, we also have grants, that we can provide that our partners at Jobs Ohio, utilize to help attract companies here, it can help a company acquire land, or a building or to do some other activity. But they are a huge partner, and a very productive partner and a huge competitive advantage for us here in the state. So between a tax job creation tax credit, incentive, and then grants, those are the two most popular what I would say, incentives.

I'm glad you mentioned Jobs Ohio, just educate us about the different roles why why do we need a Department of Development and a Jobs Ohio? What are the unique capabilities that you to bring together?

Sure, so Jobs Ohio is our private economic development entity. And what I would say is they are the group that is kind of like the front door for business investment and retention expansion projects here in the state. If you are a site selector, or you are a company that's looking to do business in Ohio, whether that's from somewhere outside of the state of Ohio, nationally or internationally, you're more than likely going to give Jobs Ohio a call, and they're going to find a great place for you to be here. They do a wonderful job that gets some great professionals there. They're led by JP Nazif, he's a friend, tremendous colleague, and but they are great. And then we at development, we're part of Team Ohio. And so we work with Jobs Ohio, and we help what I would say more so on the community level, so we would help a community get prepared for that particular investment or to help a community with a potential business expansion with an existing business. I would say we work more on the community side than we do with the business side. But there is times where we assist a business with with financing or those types of things where we can be helpful as part of as part of the team. So we work what I would say hand in glove together to to make Ohio, you know, the best place to do business and to pursue your version of the American dream.

So let's let's talk about Ohio as the best place to do business, what are what are our What do you see, as you look across the economic development landscape in the state? And you've already noted that it's different it varies across the state. What are our key advantages? And then what are our disadvantages? What what are the kinds of things where you really need to step in to make a an area more attractive? That where where it's in deficit in some way?

Yeah. So I think, you know, first of all, there has been a lot of work done over a number of decades to make Ohio's business environment very competitive. We've done a lot of regulatory work, we've done to make make things, certainly very business friendly. It's a safe place, obviously, to do business, but it's not overbearing is what I would say. We've also done a lot of work on our tax policy. It's not cumbersome at the state level, where it is in in some states. And I think that's kudos to not only the current administration and the current GA, but previous general assemblies that have been very intentional about getting control of our tax of our tax policy here in the state. And that goes, that doesn't go unnoticed. When businesses are considering a place to operate. We are a very affordable state, in fact, one of the most affordable states in the country to do business, whether that's the cost of utilities, you know, and other things, the cost of land, the cost to build, you know, if you're looking for a place where your dollar can be stretched further, Ohio is the place to be and then you know, in terms of variety of a place to build or to do business. You know, Ohio's your place. We've got, you know, beautiful, urban areas. We've got amazing rural places and everything in between. And so I think, you know, we're pretty large state a lot of lot of land lot of opportunity here. And I think that is what gives us our competitive advantage. What are our opportunities, we've been so good at economic development, that we are creating jobs faster than we can find people to fill them. Yeah. So we, we will have to take a really hard look, I think about how we can try and get people to migrate to the state of Ohio. The other thing, and this is not a challenge that is unique to Ohio, but, you know, families, people across the country are having fewer children. And so we have to figure out how to get the people that that are around in the country, to locate here and centralize here in a state of Ohio. So workforce in general, and just the sheer number of people that we need to locate here in Ohio, is is is a challenge for us. And it's an opportunity, I think, that we can win, which is a big reason why we decided to give the brand a refresh, right? We wanted to make sure that we could showcase Ohio as a as an inclusive, creative, family friendly, connected place. We wanted to, you know, show that Ohio, you know, had heart, which is why, you know, we've gone with Ohio, the heart of it all. And quite easily, you know, the brand, that brand hasn't been used for 20 years, but people still thought it was our brand. So it's got legs, and we plan on fully, fully exploiting it for the future.

So I just want to throw one specific one out that's not unique to Ohio, but artificial intelligence, challenge or opportunity from an economic development standpoint?

Yeah. So I think it's both, I think the speed at which it is being deployed, is is is both a challenge and an opportunity for us. I you know, I know that we talk about how our hope is that it is going to be used for good, and not the other for bad. I think that my biggest concern, and this is not something that I have talked with, with anybody in any level of detail about, but my biggest concern is, you know, AI is being used to do a lot of simple tasks or, or do a lot of jobs that other people are currently doing. And so, you know, my concern is that it's going to displace potentially, a lot of people who, who are going to have trouble finding jobs in the future. And, you know, not everybody wants to be a doctor and, you know, in the science field and, you know, highly technical skill fields. And so what I'm worried about is people getting left behind, because this technology is moving so fast, and we won't be able to skill folks up quick enough to take on the jobs that we do have available. And I just don't want that to I don't want that to compound an already very complicated workforce, you know, issue that we have right now, that currently exists. So I just I'm concerned. But you know, who knows how?

So what are your it's really hard to predict the future. And I'm not I'm not going to hold you to account for anything you say here. We're in very speculative, really speculative territory when we talk about artificial intelligence and again back on the work, but But I appreciate what you just said about your your concern and your worry. Yeah, what are steps that the state can take on the workforce side to to ameliorate or mitigate the impact of potential job losses that come from a skills mismatch? Where AI becomes the, you know, I go looking for somebody to fill a job, I can't find it. Oh, there's a technology that can do it for me. Yeah, I'm going to stop hunting for people and instead is use this this tool. Yeah. What are your thoughts on how we do upscale that workforce so that it can compete?

It's so funny too, because we're not we're not talking just about people who are, you know, taking orders, you know, in the fast food line either. We're talking about, you know, systems that read, you know, that are that are taking the place of radiologists you know, it's it's runs the spectrum. And I don't know how the every day and you know, maybe it's not it's the everyday human being is going to react to being you know, of course we're, we're tough and we're, you know, we'll pick ourselves up and you know, figure it out. But I don't know how we transition as a society to machines essentially forcing us into something that we didn't choose. On our own freewill. Yeah. So I just I, I, you know, there, some people are just naturally gifted, and they will transition and move on with their life, and they'll go a new direction. But there is certainly there's concern on my part that there is a whole group of people across our country that will most definitely get left behind. And and I don't know, there's no, there's no amount of assistance, where we get people credentials week for free, that is going to quickly impact these individuals. And so I just, I wonder if we're really thinking about that, because right now we're talking about, you know, well, we have tech cred, right, because this administration has been great on tech cred. And I just, I am concerned that we're worried about filling these jobs that are available now. But it's like the software engineers that we've been looking for at work. We, we've got AI that does that now. Right?

Well, it's it's funny, you know, I'm in the higher ed business. And as you say, you mentioned credentials and so forth. And I think historically, our approach is, well, let's just make people smarter than than the machines. But evidence suggests that the machine is is pretty close to already smarter than us in terms of raw intelligence. And it may be you just didn't say it explicitly, but implicitly, it may be that, that the people who adapt are those who are adaptable, and are it's it's the how do we get people ready for change, when they had hoped that Oh, I got this credential that sets me up for this job. And that will remain in place indefinitely. And now it's it's getting people comfortable with rescaling retooling kind of pretty regularly. And we in higher ed need to change. We can't rely on just the traditional four years at the undergraduate level and sort of two years at a professional degree, we're going to need to be helping people throughout their their life's course.

Yeah, it's gonna be a lifetime of learning. And I think that that is a different culture than what the majority of us have been conditioned.

You mentioned earlier, as we were talking about your role, and in specifically in economic development, it sounds like what you're describing is you're partnering with communities, you're partnering with prospective firms, you're partnering with jobs, Ohio, you know, what is your approach to collaboration? How do you cultivate a healthy partnership?

So great question. I think first and foremost, the biggest way to cultivate a great coalition or a partnership or a collaboration, is to create the relationship first, which is, you know, you have to know someone on a, you know, somewhat personal level before you can ask them to work together, and to do things for you or with you. And really, this is the way that we have been working, I think, quite effectively with a lot of folks over the last four years. We, we always look win win, you know, we we try to do things. We ask people not only to do things for us, but you know, we're constantly looking to do things for other people. And I think we are very solution focused, which is is part of our DNA here. Of course, that's something that Governor DeWine kind of set set out at the very beginning of his of his first term, we find a way to get to yes, very rarely do we tell people No. Mostly because I don't like to hear it. So I think that, that just that personality, and that, that attitude, is is a key component to building to building collaborations.

This is gonna sound like an overly academic question, but bear with me here. What I want to sort of unpack is what you're describing sounds very interpersonal, you know, sort of building trust and having conversations with individuals, but I'm also in Interested in sort of your thoughts on these are on the one hand, people sitting down and making deals. And it's also organizations, and in this case, the state. And so how do you how do you build, you know, that that level of trust that's associated with, not you, Lydia Mihalik, the director, but the Ohio Department of Development, so that when the next person who has the honor of taking your role that commitment continues, and similarly, because I would assume firms are making bets on on you, but also on the state? And so how do you how do you cultivate that sense of, of trust, and we, the state of Ohio, are a good collaborator.

So I think that our, what we've tried to do over the last several years is build up a reputation that will last beyond this administration. So regardless of who sits in this seat, the expectation almost will always be excellence, right? So regardless of who is here, it will, will hopefully for a long time, be always thought of as if you want to get something done, if you want to proceed and be successful, then you go to development. And I think as long as we keep delivering on that, it doesn't matter who the director is, the team knows what the expectation is, and the team knows that they don't want to disappoint. Because as soon as someone starts saying, Oh, no, like, this is totally different. This is not okay, then they know that all of that, you know, our reputation can be absolutely destroyed. And, you know, one, one, bad action. And so they work really hard to continue to deliver here and to continue to execute and grind it out. And so I think that as long as the expectation is that we're going to keep, keep doing what we've been doing, then the trust will continue. But what will never let up as long as you know, as long as Mike DeWine and John Husted are around, right. So I'm replaceable, but they'll find somebody else to sit here. But I think it has everything to do with doing what we said we would do. And and not not going back on that. And they they know what it was like before we were here. And I don't think anybody here once wants to go back to that. Very proud that work.

You should be we're in I'm I'm bullish on on Ohio's future. Yeah, that's, that's thanks to your good efforts. But this is this is one that I'm not asking you to go back on your word, because you've just pledged that, you know, you make a deal. But, you know, just think of how many times you get into collaborations and they they don't reach the promise of what you they don't deliver that win win. Yeah, you know, how can you think of instances where that's occurred? And you don't have to give the details? But how do you know how do you extricate yourself from something that's, that's not delivering value to one party or the other or multiple parties?

Yeah. So I think the one thing that without without being too, too explicit here, so we, most of our, if not all of our senior leaders here are very skilled at being able to have a critical conversation. And when when something is not right, or it needs to be corrected, having that conversation is more valuable and more effective than just letting things linger on. And too often in when you're in a leadership position. It can be easier to just let it go. And I think the best way and you don't if you don't have to be mean spirited about it. We you know, it doesn't have to be dramatic. But I think the best way to, you know, to just exit or to end the collaboration is just to say, look, this just isn't working. It's not, you know, it's it's just not what we had expected. And it would be best if you know, we just moved on from here, but most people won't have that discussion. So I just think being able to have that critical conversation. and, and and being direct about it is is the way to go.

Is that is that your role as the leader? Or is it your role to cry and create the conditions where those who work for you feel empowered that you've got your you've got their back. And they they know that's their duty and their responsibility.

So it depends on the level of it depends on the level and what the actual activity is and what the what the collaboration is doing. But my team knows that they are perfectly empowered to have those conversations at any point. Because if if it doesn't happen, then someone else will, will have it for them. They're great people, though. I love my team. They're incredible.

Well, that's that's a good place to finish this conversation. You started the very beginning, first laying out your your leadership vision of servant leadership, but then highlighting the importance of building a good team and building faith and confidence in that. Yeah, you clearly have done that. And so thank you, on behalf of Ohio citizens, for the good work you and the governor and lieutenant governor have been doing to try and move the state into the next economic century. It's a changing and dynamic space. And we're really grateful that you are at the helm of of helping us in that endeavor.

Well, you're welcome. Thank you for the work that you do, thanks to the Glenn college. And look at as Governor DeWine says, this is Ohio's time, and there couldn't be a better. This couldn't be a better opportunity to serve in this role. And I'm really excited about Ohio's future and where we're going and I can't wait to see what happens next.

Well, thank you for that. Good work, and thanks for this conversation.

You've got it. Thank you so much.