How we position our podcast production businesses is important. It's more than just stating a market or niche. It also involves how we put together an offer that's exactly right for our ideal clients.

Some of us ONLY offer editing, which is totally fine. But one way that we can differentiate ourselves is by offering bundles of services that fit our clients' needs like a glove.

Virginia Elder joins us to share her path into podcast editing, how she's begun to add complementary services to her offerings, and some of the ways she's grown her business. Follow along as she shares the importance of finding out what skills & services are needed in order to provide people with solutions they're looking for!

Listen to Discover

• The value of online courses.
• How Virginia found her first clients and grew her business.
• Some of the services she bundles together.

If you are looking for ways to grow and differentiate your podcast production business, click that Play button today!

Links & Resources

• Podcast Abundance (Virginia's business)
• Fincon (conference)
• Podcast Movement (conference)
• Canva (tool)
• Keywords Everywhere (tool)
• Grammarly (tool)
• Earn More Writing (course)
• YaYa Podcasting (Carrie's courses)
• Pete McPherson (Do You Even Blog)
• Episod3 30 of the Podcast Editors Mastermind, with How to Find, Hire, and Manage a Subcontractor
• Episode 33 of the Podcast Editors Mastermind, with Warren MacGregor sharing about customer service

About Virginia Elder

Virginia Elder is a podcast editor with over 15 years of experience in project management, client services, and strategic organization. You can find her at Podcast Abundance.

Guest Editor

This episode was edited by Dyan Joy Navarro.

Be a Guest

If you're a podcast editor, we'd love to see if you'd be a fit for a future episode. Fill out this form to let us know you're interested, and we'll contact you to see if it's a good fit.

Your Yetis Are

• Daniel Abendroth | Roth Media
• Jennifer Longworth | Bourbon Barrel Podcasting
• Carrie Caulfield Arick | YaYa Podcasting
• Bryan Entzminger | Top Tier Audio

About the Podcast Editors Mastermind

The Podcast Editors Mastermind is for professional podcast editors who want to grow their business and get more clients. We’re creating a community of like-minded professionals that are passionate about the art and science of editing podcasts.

Our goal is to help you build your business by providing tools, resources, and support so you can focus on what matters most—your craft. This isn’t just another group where everyone talks about how great they are at podcast editing; we show our work!

Follow or subscribe and take the Podcast Editors Mastermind with you today!

• Follow the Podcast Editors Mastermind
• Share your love for the Podcast Editors Mastermind

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

Bryan 0:04

So how much is that? Well, welcome to the podcast editors mastermind where your yetis try every couple of weeks to figure out how to actually live stream and record themselves. As professional editors, you'd think we have this nailed down. But if you could see behind the scenes, you'd realize it's always a mess off camera. So if you've joined us, we're glad that you're here, if you're catching the replay, or catching the podcast, thanks for joining us that way. I'm Brian and Springer, you'll find me at top tier audio.com. And we'll go around to my right and then I'll introduce our guests in just a second, I guess, Daniel, that's my left for you.

Daniel 0:50

I'm Daniel abendroth. And you can find me at Rob media

Carrie 0:52

dot audio. I'm Carrie Caulfield Eric, you can find me at Yeah, podcasting calm.

Bryan 0:57

And our guest today is Virginia elder. She's a podcast editor, but she does more than just editing. And we're going to talk a little bit about that, because there's some stuff that she offers that I think are really key and could really help us add some serious value to our clients that I don't have a lot of experience with. Now, Virginia has over 15 years of experience in things like project management and Client Services, strategic organization, all kinds of crazy stuff like that. But she's also really experienced with the idea of trying to juggle the content, as well as the production process. And so what she's able to bring to her clients is sort of that streamlined, basically friction free type podcast production experience. So Virginia, welcome to the show. It's great to have you.

Unknown Speaker 1:42

Thank you. Thank you. And when you say it all like that, it's just, it sounds wonderful. So thank you for the intro.

Bryan 1:49

Oh, you're welcome. You know, it reads wonderful to so just, it's not. It's not just the the beautiful voice.

Unknown Speaker 1:57

Thank you. I'm super excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Bryan 2:00

Oh, you're welcome. So for those that are joining us, we're going to be talking about adding services to podcast production and some of the things that Virginia does. But before we get into that, thought it might be good just to get a little bit of understanding about how Virginia got into the business. What got her started, because I think that's a good journey for all of us to understand. So how did you get started online? Like what happened?

Unknown Speaker 2:23

oyed that. So that was, gosh,: 2018

Bryan 4:37

and we are I feel like it's a bit of a jump, though, just directly from writing stuff for your financial blog to writing stuff for other people. Like, how did that transition happen?

Unknown Speaker 4:50

Right. So initially, I was focused on writing only articles about things that of course, I was very familiar with. So it could be personal finances, it could have been something about kids or for moms or something very related to what I was comfortable with, right. And then in that financial space, you start to expand slowly, just like we all grow and change, your knowledge grows and changes to. So then in time, you're interested in more other things. I wrote an article about dog treats with hemp in them one time, because I have dogs and I was like, Sure, I'll research some stuff, okay. You, there's a wealth of information out there. And if you're resourceful and you take advantage of it, and you don't mind just doing a little bit of research, you can probably write about anything someone asks you to. Now, I will say it's important that you pick and choose, say, no sometimes, and write about things that you feel comfortable with that are entertaining and interesting to you.

Carrie 5:56

So here's a question that I think a lot of people have is how did you get your first client?

Unknown Speaker 6:05

So my first client was actually from Upwork. And there, yeah, and I just because I listen to the show, sometimes I kind of knew a little bit about your story, too. But very similarly, I was sitting there thinking, gosh, this is so much work producing my own show, all this time editing and all this. I could do this for someone else make a little extra side money. Let me find somebody found somebody on Upwork. And the the magic there was, he was a financial advisor, which is totally my jam my background, we meshed very, very well, he was a father. So a lot of kids stuff and personal growth, through raising kids. And all that was a lot of what he talked about, along with money. So just the topics just really aligned. On top of that he was someone who just wanted to get behind the mic and talk. He didn't want to do the website. He didn't want to do the show notes, the blog post, also, he just wanted it to happen. And I was like, Well, um, you know, I've done this for myself. I like it was very honest with him. I was like, I can do that for you. But you do have to pay me. And so we agreed on some rates and things like that for all the different pieces. And I just started doing it. And honestly, I owe it to him that he really helped my confidence because he was like, This is great. This is great. He was so happy with everything. So I was like, Okay, I can do this. For more people. Let me find somebody else and just kind of took off from there.

Carrie 7:33

What was your first client after Upwork? How is that transition? after that?

Unknown Speaker 7:41

I was sharing with Brian before we started recording. I love going to conventions. So podcast movement, pod fast podcast movements coming up. Are you going along? Yes. I'm super excited. I saw See y'all there. And then whoever else is in the chat, if y'all are coming to, that'd be awesome. I'd love to meet some more editors. But being interested in the financial space, I attended fin con, which is where I met Steve Stewart. So that was a fabulous connection still is he has taught me so much. And I got at least two clients from fin con directly, like right away. When we were there, we hung out and they said, Hey, by the way, when we're done with this, I'm going back home and I'm getting my podcast together and I'm sending it to you, I need your help. And I was like,

Carrie 8:31

Okay, that's it. They were like they heard your, uh, you know, you did this work. You were a podcast editor. You did all this.

Unknown Speaker 8:37

Yeah. And just being friends with them. And not even from pre like we met there. And we walked around together and went to booths together. We're just chatting and

Carrie 8:48

you weren't selling anything.

Unknown Speaker 8:50

There was no, okay. No, because I was very, like, I'm still just trying to figure out how to become on swamped with my own show, and my own financial coaching side and all of that. And I was still trying to figure out, I didn't know I was gonna become a podcast editor at that time. I was still very like, I'm a financial coach. And yeah, I have my show. And I know how to do this. And they were like, can you I want you to do this like for me. And there again, they were financial advisors as well. So it's just kind of funny. So I guess maybe that's a big clue, right? Like, find something that you're interested in. And maybe you don't have to attend conventions about it, but be in that crowd. So that way you get shows that are about topics that you like that you'd like to listen to, because that's that was a big line that I drew from the very beginning. I don't want to do shows that I'm not interested in. If I am not enjoying the content, I don't want to edit it. I don't want to sit there and

Carrie 9:59

there's nothing worse like falling asleep while you're editing.

Unknown Speaker: 10:02

Yeah, and that sounds bad. But that show that I don't want to do is totally somebody else's. You know, beautiful masterpiece in the waiting, right? It's just not for me.

Carrie: 10:14

Yeah. And they deserve to have somebody who is going to be like loving with that content, right?

Unknown Speaker: 10:21

Yeah, I'm just cracking up at the comments. And Steve, Steve posted the link for fin con where we met. So that's, that's pretty cool. Thank you, Steve.

Carrie: 10:30

For people listening to the podcast, go to fin con expo.com. And you will find all the information you need, there is no doubt. Let's talk about the services you provide. Right? So are you doing kind of like the whole shebang, where I could just record an episode, give you the files and say, I want to publish this day and go,

Unknown Speaker: 10:55

yes. And so with that being said, there are definitely some zoom calls that happen upfront, making sure we're on the same page, and I understand expectations and that they understand expectations the other way. So we definitely have a lot of upfront, getting to know each other, right? And we talk through what do you need? Do you need show notes? Maybe you don't? Do you need a blog post? That is an expanded version of the podcast episode? Do you need social media? Maybe you don't. So it's, I like to say it's kind of all a cart, the editing and the podcast production and host management is like the primary thing that they're coming to me for. And then from there, hey, what else? Do you need help with what else? You know, what other piece of the podcast? You know, production Park stresses you out? Like, let me do that for you. And if pricing and everything's agreeable, then that's what I do.

Bryan: 11:58

I'm kind of wondering how you approach that because I know you're a systems person. But when you start doing all the cards, or pick from the menu and build Choose Your Own Adventure type production that can create a lot of chaos in terms of how, like how, let's just how do you do it.

Unknown Speaker: 12:16

So I have always been a little bit type A and very crazy organized. So I actually keep a physical, like Manila file folder for every client. And I keep a lovely yellow pad next to me at all times. And I literally take notes on everything. Aside from that, while we're talking, I'm typically in a Dropbox paper or a Google Doc, and I'm writing down what services this person needs, what they're thinking about what they may need in the future. And then I always have a written quote, that goes out to them, they agree to that, and then a contract, right? So if at any point, you know, six weeks down the road, they send me their next season of episodes, like whoop, I don't remember what I'm supposed to do for them, I can pull up any of that documentation and quickly say, okay, you know, show notes and audio grams. And that's it, and they take care of whatever else and just really keep notes, I use Trello to help me with the pieces, right, like when things are due in certain deadlines. And I really, really do love when someone just says here's my audio, I want these five things I want them to drop every Tuesday at 5am go because that gives me just Sensus such a sense of control over then I do have control issues over the production and I I want them to sound their best I'm 1,000% in their court trying to make them sound as professional and as awesome as possible. And I like to feel like I have control over that piece. So that's that's my crazy coming out.

Bryan: 14:07

And do you have other people that work with you or are you a one person show at this point?

Unknown Speaker: 14:12

So far I am one and I am meeting and I will hire at least one or two contractors in August I am I am maxed out to my breaking point.

Carrie: 14:24

How many clients is that feeling this way.

Unknown Speaker: 14:28

Um, so that gets confusing because I have some that are copywriting only clients and that's interesting how that came about. But then I have I want to say for editing clients. And some of those there again you get the all the car things some of them is just the editing piece and some of them add shownotes and host management and posting graphics and scheduling a newsletter and there's a lot that goes into Some of those, so I'm going to have a lower threshold. I think right now until I get some contractors going. And I'm really looking forward to that.

Carrie: 15:10

So what kind of contractors? Are you going to be hiring? Do you think

Unknown Speaker: 15:15

I want? And I guess this is good that editors, I think, listen to this show, I would love to have a junior editor that can handle just some very basic edits. And then I want a copywriter specific for help with a lot of the writing, whether that be blog posts or show notes. I think if I get one of each of those that will give me a good start to start to feel. Okay, you know, do I need some another one of one of these? And which one do I need more of? And I think that'll be a good start?

Carrie: 15:49

And how much do you think that will expand your ability to take on new clients? Like how many what what would your client load increase CD? Think?

Unknown Speaker: 15:57

Um, so that's where I've really been trying to think about exactly that. I'm not sure because sometimes you get a contractor that they can only work so many hours a week, right? So if I could find someone, and I don't think I'm ready to have someone full time, I think I need to be one of the people that they work for. Right? So I would like to start with delegating out like one or two shows, you know, reviewing those edits, making sure they're to my standard Same thing with the copywriting making sure that I'm getting a blog post back that needs minimal rewrites or edits and, and moving on from there. But with podcast movement coming up, and of course, you, you do tend to hope that you get a client from some of these events, right? So I'm, I'm kind of on that fence where I'm a little nervous, like, I definitely want the more more business more clients, but I'm like, I need to hire somebody. So I'm a little What do you say like tentative, I guess about that. So there's always those growing pains in business, no matter what it is, whether you need to take a course to learn something new, or you need to hire, I just feel that's always gonna be there. And that's a good thing.

Carrie: 17:13

It is. But you know, I'm tired to grow. And sometimes I want to get to that. What is it? Do you know? When do you get to actually take like a vacation? Where are they're like, cuz now I take vacations now to learn new things. Which I don't want to grow up and be like you Oh, God, don't be like me. Now. I'm nobody's role model. That's what my husband used to tell my son. But we have some questions. Daniel, do you want to?

Daniel: 17:45

Yes. So do your clients generally? So this is from BG? Do your clients generally have their own graphic designer podcast? cover art, etc? Or did you learn to do that, too.

Unknown Speaker: 17:58

So I'm very upfront with people, if they want something fancy, they do need to find an actual graphic designer. But if they are very, you know, wanting just some simple like, here's the background and some words on it, and they put their picture on there. I can do that I have Canva Pro, and I tend to be really meticulous about that stuff. So I don't want to necessarily do that too often, because I'll spend too much time, right. But I can do some basic graphics for them. But like I said, that's all about being upfront with your client. And, you know, what kind of graphic Are you looking for here? Give me some examples. And then I'll see what I can do.

Daniel: 18:39

Do you ever struggle with scope creep? I don't.

Unknown Speaker: 18:45

I'm sure it exists. But I think a lot of times, it's me spending too much time on the thing that I want to do like too much of a perfectionist over the years, and I think this is just from from being in corporate, I'm quick to say, hey, that wasn't part of the original deal. Like, maybe I'll do something one time for somebody and be very clear, like, hey, this wasn't included. But I did this one time for you. But that's it. Next time, it's going to be such and such amount or, you know, try to be really clear and honest about that stuff. Because I don't want to be resentful. Like I don't I didn't do this so that I could be like, sitting in my home office angry, right? did this for freedom and for happiness and so that I could control the workload and things like that.

Daniel: 19:41

Yeah, like hearing you say, like being upfront honest, like I can do that. And like setting limitations, like that's something we do. But it's also like, learning how to say no, or there's something like I can do that, but I don't want to and it's like having that urge that people pleaser, kind of Like, just doing it to make them happy. Yeah. And pain resentful when you're free to do it week after week.

Unknown Speaker: 20:06

And I think that's a personality thing, too. I've had enough people not like me that I don't

Carrie: 20:14

care. Now I want to be you when I grow

Unknown Speaker: 20:19

up. I mean, don't get me wrong, like, I've definitely had those, you know, evenings where you practically feel depressed because you're like, I think I really made this person mad. And I didn't mean to, or something, right, like that does happen. But honestly, if someone is going to have their expectations be that I do more than what they're paying for. I'm not here for that. Like,

Daniel: 20:48

when you say it out loud. Like that doesn't make any sense at all?

Unknown Speaker: 20:58

Well, in some of that, typically, like, say, for example, for a new client, launching a podcast episode, we're gonna have at least two zoom calls, where we're talking about their vision for the show, what they want things to look like, what should happen a year from now, where this is going, why they're creating a podcast, like we're going to talk about all the things so that I know what their goals are with the show. And in that conversation, I'm able to say, Okay, I can do this, I will not do that. How much do you want? You know, like, how many words are you thinking for your blog post, and I'll start to really get some ideas about what they want. So that if they ever come back and say, Oh, well, today, I want a 3000 word blog post. I'm like, No, we were talking about 1500 before. So this one's gonna be more expensive. And it's just, when you have all those conversations up front, and you're taking notes, and putting pieces of that in the proposal or in the contract, you have a very clear line. And if that line exists, I have no problem sticking to it. Now, if there was a questionable issue, that's where I might say, Okay, I'll do this this one time, because you didn't know. But after this, it's gonna be this much money. And if they want it done, they're like, Okay, great. Happy to pay that. And if not, then they're like, oh, sorry, I won't do that again. Like, okay, cool. We're on the same page, then. Make sense?

Carrie: 22:31

That makes sense. So Kareem has a question.

Bryan: 22:33

Yeah, he has the same question that I have, which is, if you're a podcast editor, how do you expand to copywriting? Like, I'm a one or two paragraphs and bullet points kind of guy? How do I get to what you do?

Unknown Speaker: 22:48

Okay, so I think the first and most easy transition is going to be offering shownotes transcription, things that are very podcast related. Maybe even some social media, content, posts, pieces, like the words of your social media posts, about the podcast about the content that you just edited and listened to. That would be the easiest, baby step toward copywriting. From there, you can offer an expanded version of show notes or the transcription, where you're fixing it up, you're putting headers and sub headers, and you're making it into paragraphs that are a lot more separate from like, someone wouldn't have to listen to the audio to understand what's going on. It's just a standalone piece of content. And when you're able to kind of expand in that direction, and offer that blog post, there you go. You are a content, copywriter of blog posts.

Carrie: 23:55

So how much SEO do you need to know? In order to do

Unknown Speaker: 24:01

SEO can be that that's fabulous. I thank you. That's awesome, Carrie. Um, SEO can be as complicated or as simple as you want it to be. Seo can be you type in Google a few of the words that you think might be related to this podcast episode. And you look at the suggestions like what else are people searching for? What are the suggested little questions and keywords that come up? There's also now I have to look at it but there is a keyword like a free. It's called keywords everywhere. And it's a free browser add on. And when you search for something, it comes up with a certain number of keywords off to the side of your search. And right there that shows you you know, several keywords that relate to the topic that you just searched on. So basically, it's just playing around with Google, you can do the same In your podcast app, and search for, like a podcast episode on a topic that you want to listen to, and then look at those titles, look at the other words that are showing up based on your search. Those are your keywords. So you can start to think about what's a question that someone would type in looking for this answer, kind of, you know, back into it in a way. And if you can work that question into a title or a subtitle, or even just in the paragraph somewhere, you have done the SEO. And then you can even provide some of those little keywords to your client. And they can post them inside of WordPress, or whichever posts they're using as keywords for that blog post so they can go that extra step. Did that help her to do? No,

Carrie: 25:53

that's just I feel like you just explained SEO to me after like, you know, decades of every no clue what it what it was about, like, I understand it in such a deeper way. And that was, I mean, that was just amazing. You know, what I would love to do one day, and this is I'm stealing this idea from one of my clients who does this for his show, which is kind of similar to ours, but in a different niche is to kind of have you do an assessment, and somebody is copywriting on like their sales page or something, like have that as a live, you know, episode, I think would be really cool. So I would love to have you back for that. And if I would love to have somebody who's willing to be the victim, because I don't want to do it.

Bryan: 26:46

If you want something with plenty of room for improvement, just do the show notes that I write for this show.

Carrie: 26:51

Yeah, well, that's the other option. But it would be cool to have somebody like get that kind of advice, you know, and be in the hot seat just because it's such a valuable tool. So we'll have to do that. I'm, I'm totally stealing that idea.

Unknown Speaker: 27:07

I sounds good. Well, and I just did some web copy for. She's a like a health person. She helps with pre diabetes and things like that. And her website was very much like, Hey, you want to get your blood sugar under control? But I asked her like, hey, do people come to you? Because they know they have a blood sugar issue? Or are they coming to you because they just got a problem. They don't know what's going on in their bodies. And that was the answer. So I completely flipped it around and was talking, talking, using her web copy and creating it more of you know that there's weight struggles there's like different moments of like shakiness versus extreme exhaustion and you know, depends on what you eat. And it just going into the deep there. Again, I did research, I asked her a ton of questions cuz I love health stuff, but I don't know it all to the point where she does. So it's, it's often about what that person is looking for and how you could make them stumble upon you with whether that be your web copy or a blog post, or even shownotes because there is Seo with show notes. I wanted to say somebody I've learned a ton from Okay, so Carrie, I've taken your RX course, it really really helps me. I didn't know anything about her x or you know, any kind of audio processing before that. So that was awesome. I took Steve Stewart's audacity course. And then for anything like blog, post show notes, content stuff online. I follow a fella named Pete MacPherson. And he has a podcast, it's called Do you even blog? And he's all into the and I met him at fin con as well. So if you are like, how do I write YouTube descriptions? Or how do I write blog posts or shout out he has templates that you can download. He has all kinds of online courses. Everything that I've learned and that I do for people is from some sort of online course or some one's work that I looked at or some download thing or you know, I'm a big fan of online learning.

Carrie: 29:29

I totally am and I'm a big fan of everybody buy my course.

Bryan: 29:35

I'm a fan of online learning but that Pete MacPherson website, do you even blog it looks like like a MySpace page. His. His his writings better than that, right?

Unknown Speaker: 29:45

He's the funniest quirkiest guy like he he's weird and he likes it that way. Like

Carrie: 29:52

I got that. Yeah. And actually I want to say that this the copywriter on my clan show actually mentioned this website. That's awesome.

Unknown Speaker: 30:04

Yeah, and you just watched like a couple of his YouTube channels like, I mean, YouTube episodes, all kinds of topics and all that

Carrie: 30:12

was doing one right now.

Bryan: 30:16

Recording,

Unknown Speaker: 30:18

and then you can get a sense of his quirkiness. And so he that helps me too, because the more that I watch someone like that, who's so cool and quirky, it makes me really realize that I can just be myself and I don't have to be so stiff, I think, from yours, and being in the corporate world, I was very stuff I was very, the background has to be perfect. And this has to be perfect. And you have to look a certain way. And I watched somebody like him, and I'm like, this is cool. This is what I want. So if you if you have those, like I guess imposter syndrome, which I'm still working through anyways. But

Carrie: 30:57

so this brings me to an interesting question that I'm always curious about, as somebody in business who was completely not corporate, I don't come from that space at all really? Is how much of that quirky personality do you have with your clients? Like? He like super profesh? Or are you like, completely because I work with corporate clients too. And actually, I work with kind of do some white labeling. And I feel like the company doesn't want me to talk to the corporate clients at all. Because I'm so like, I don't, I don't care very much. If you don't, you know, I'm not everybody's cup of tea, but I do good part. So how much of your personality Are you displaying to your clients? I guess my class. So

Unknown Speaker: 31:47

I think the answer to that is it depends. If it is a corporate client, and it is a very, you know, stiff kind of show, it has to be so professional, well, then I'm going to kind of mirror that back to them. And then if it's someone that I met at fin con, and we're kind of friends and we had lunch together, and we hung out and you know, spent a week together and and you know Florida or California or wherever we were, I feel really comfortable with that person. So I don't mind responding to an email and a much more conversational tone, right? In addition, if it's someone that you know, is your Facebook friend, or is on Instagram, following you and commenting back and forth, I feel like we're friends. And I feel like I can be Who would I want to you know, who I want to be to that person and be really truthful and real, I guess. Through like I said, when I'm onboarding a client, initially, we're going to have those couple of zoom calls, we're going to really get to know each other. And so they are going to see me, they are going to see my home office and my kid might walk in, and they're gonna know that I'm a mom and my background and that I work from home. And I try to be very upfront about who I am and what they're going to get. And if they don't want to talk to me, and, you know, I'm not their cup of tea. Cool, but I could still do good work. Right? Like you said, you do great work. You don't have to be best friends.

Carrie: 33:26

Yeah, exactly. I don't I don't know if anybody else is this. It's just something I've been thinking about for a while is like, how much especially with social media and everything is like, we're on display. So, you know, how does that show up in businesses? I

Unknown Speaker: 33:42

always feel like if, if you hold back, you're just, you know, withholding from yourself, you know, you're just holding that piece inside of you. And that's going to get toxic for you. Right? So if you're not their cup of tea, that's fine. Like, we don't need to be best friends, but I can still work for you. And you can still pay me well, and I can still give you a great product. Like we it's fine. Yeah. Don't have to be best friends. And I don't think you should hide who you are. I mean, to what like, be the cat lady be the cork like whatever, you know.

Carrie: 34:27

I've tried No, but I in you know, I don't know if this is one of my other new existential crisis or not. So I'll stop here, but you know, it's just something I've been thinking about for a long time. Alright, somebody else asked a question. Let's not look at me anymore. How

Bryan: 34:46

about Daniel? I think it's Daniel's turn.

Daniel: 34:49

Well, I just want to add that you know, we do this because like, we enjoy it and we enjoy the lifestyle and like, creating what we want and part of that is like Being able to be yourself and like, if you are a quirky person, like put your quirks out there and attract the kind of clients that want to work with somebody like that.

Carrie: 35:09

Exactly. Hopefully, they just have a big budget that's gonna

Unknown Speaker: 35:15

bind them up to cool. And that's where like you have the shows that you want to work on that are a passion topic of yours, right? So I like financial shows. I also like a lot of motherhood shows, I love when motherhood and money combine like, and that's part of, you know, that financial coaching background and, but I'm also like you said, if somebody comes to me, they have a big budget, they want this super professional production. Maybe it's not my favorite topic, but they're paying me well, and we don't have to be best friends. So yeah.

Bryan: 35:52

So have you ever had to fire a client? Because it wasn't a great fit? Yes. And now that we've got the Yes, no question out of the way, can we hear that story.

Unknown Speaker: 36:05

So I do quite a bit of writing for an investment company. And that person and I have a great relationship, we also met at fin con. And they have been wonderful about referring me to other clients, and someone else needed some web copy work done. And, you know, do the zoom calls, meet up with them, do the work. And the whole time was just like pulling teeth. I mean, it was awful. And I think it was awful for them to like, I felt like every time we got on a call, like everyone was frustrated. And I was trying my hardest. A lot of it was that they didn't really have an ideal client an ideal, like, specific angle. So it was very hard to write for them. And when you have I want to say problems identifying your client avatar, I'm sure we've heard those terms. Your copy is going to come out really general and really bland and basic. And I was struggling with that. And basically I ended up just finishing the work. And they had asked me, you know, can you add this? And can you do this. And there again, that scope creep I was very firm about like, nope, that wasn't in the original deal. And eventually, I kind of fibbed and told them actually, I'm really busy. And I cannot take on more work. And it wasn't actually that busy at that time. But I just didn't want to do more work for them. And so I just finished the job, build them, and then they took forever to pay to so I was like I knew I am not doing more work for you guys like no. So that was where I didn't necessarily have that conversation like we're done. But it was this very, for firm decision on my end that I would finish the work as best as I could as fast as possible and get them out of my life. So and not accept more work from them.

Daniel: 38:14

You have quite a variety of clients as far as like some good editing, some get this, like, how do you keep all that in order? Like, is it just Trello? Or do you have some other tips and tricks you can share with us?

Unknown Speaker: 38:28

So far, it is primarily Trello. I have a copywriting board. And I have a podcast editing and you know, the podcast piece board. So that could have social media on it, or it could have different pieces on there. But it's all related to podcasts. And then on the copywriting board that's primarily blog posts and newsletters that don't really relate to podcasts. So, so far, that's what I use. Most clients and I share a Google Sheet where they're populating ideas and blogs that they love that are on this topic that I can reference. I do want people to give me some content that they love on the topic that they want me to write about. So we're often sharing back and forth links and things that are in a spreadsheet that I can open each week when I know hey, it's time to write this person's blog. There's a spreadsheet, here's all the links for the references and I can start doing an outline for the post. So far, it's just Trello I am more than positive especially with hiring contractors that I will need something else. And there again, that's why I'm referring back to some of you all's prior episodes to learn what your management systems are, and which ones I should go with. So I'm very open to just starting with what works or what I can do now and knowing that it's always gonna change, like by the time that I feel Trouble with something, I'm gonna have to learn something new. And that's just how it is. So I think Trello is worked so far such great advice in there. I can't even like the having the client give you a reference to things that they already love. like writing, they already love that. I

Carrie: 40:18

think that simplifies it so much. And when I was doing because I did graphic design before I did editing, that's what I would make cover for podcasts. Right? That's how I kind of ventured in. I didn't know that. Yeah. So I'd asked them to go pick out other podcasts cover art that they really liked. And that's where we started. And that was super helpful. So I can see, like, I didn't think about that in any other context, though. Like, I didn't think that would work in writing. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.

Unknown Speaker: 40:52

It does, especially, you know, say you're going to offer show notes. Okay, well, there's a million ways you can offer shown letters, you know, so many ways. Some people have bullet points with timestamps, and some people have paragraphs and some people base it looks like a blog post, kinda. There's so many different styles. So if someone will come to me with Hey, I like what this guy does. Okay, we're gonna emulate that. And I do the same thing with that question earlier was if I do graphic design, and that's what I do, I tell them, we'll find some podcast covers that you like and send them to me, and I'll see if I can do that.

Carrie: 41:27

Canva is a godsend. Let me tell you, you can do so much with that. And and I have those graphic design skills. Do I ever open Photoshop? And what I do? Do I groan? No one Yes.

Unknown Speaker: 41:38

Was the same, um, you know, whatever someone wants you to do, or whatever you're thinking about offering. Look at some that you like, if you want audiograms made, find some that you like, that you saw on social media and bring that to your editor and see if they can do that. And that's how we all grow. Right? I can see what program they use where it came from, or if I've ever seen that type before. You Yeah, that's that's basically how I've done almost everything, even with web copy, like, send me some of your maybe even competitors websites that you think are awesome. Let's go from there. So yeah, definitely don't recreate the wheel. Like there's too many wheels already out there. Just look at those.

Bryan: 42:27

If there's a podcast editor or podcast manager, right now that's listening to this and they're going, Hey, I might want to add this, but maybe they're thinking, I don't know if I've got what it takes. Is there like a baseline of you need to be able to do this in order to think about doing copywriting. As a podcast, manager, editor, whatever. Hmm.

Unknown Speaker: 42:49

I think as far as written language, you have to be really comfortable with, with writing and and of course, there's things out there like Grammarly and, you know, great programs. So even if you're not that great of a writer, what I would say is, you passed high school English, I hope and so, right, use Grammarly. Do some spellcheck, and then read it to yourself out loud? Does it sound like something that you would actually say? Does it flow? Does it sound choppy or strange? But if you read something out loud, it's going to read well, usually. And I think that's one of the main steps that I even still take, before I send off a blog post, I sit here at my computer, and I read it out loud to myself, just to make sure it doesn't sound robotic, or, you know, too friendly or too informative, or just, you know, just trying to feel it out and make sure it sounds proper.

Carrie: 43:53

And do you like writing in the first place? Kareem?

Unknown Speaker: 43:59

I, I do. And that's where with any of these services, there's somebody out there that it feels like murder, right to like, sit down and have to write, those are the people who want you to write for them, and who will pay you. And so if you're even slightly. So if you're even slightly comfortable with spending an hour writing and you feel like you can make good progress in that hour, and you come up with a good price that you're willing to charge for that hour of your work and just all the pieces fit together. Sure, do it. And I think that's a big key too is like when you're offering these additional services, make sure you tinker around with it a little bit so that you know how long it takes you to write 1000 words and how long it takes you to proofread and how you're going to send it back to the client. I use As Google Docs, and so that they can pop in and they can make comments about, you know, whether it be corrections or Hey, can you reword this? Or, you know, can you lean towards this topic a little bit more or whatever. And so that's a good way to communicate without having to having like a zoom call, or sending videos back and forth or something like that. They can just make comments in the doc, if there are revisions. So

Daniel: 45:28

that's convenient.

Bryan: 45:29

Yeah. And if there's somebody like Daniel that's thinking, I don't want to do this, but I want to hire somebody, like, what should we do in terms of screening somebody? Like, let's just say that I'm not a terribly good writer, but I want to hire a great writer for my clients. But I don't know. Like, what what do I ask, what do I look for?

Unknown Speaker: 45:46

Yeah, I would definitely ask for links to other articles that they've written. You could even do one test topic article. And, you know, offer them an amount that you feel comfortable with or see what their rate is. Give them some reference points, have a conversation about your angle, and what you want the article to encourage somebody or inform them or teach them that whatever it is, see how they do. If they don't do well, don't, don't hire them. Like that. There's so many writers out there. I mean, I'm even testing for my own website. This isn't for client work. But for my own website, I know what podcast content and copywriting content I want on my website. So I did the same thing for people on Fiverr. And I'm testing out like five different writers to see how they do with the full expectation that, you know, there's going to be some language barriers, and I'm gonna have to probably rewrite a lot of it. But if they're during the meat of the content for me, for my site, that's going to be really helpful as far as my time. So I can continue to focus on clients,

Carrie: 47:00

when you find that person to share it with the rest, share them with the rest of us.

Unknown Speaker: 47:05

Right, right. So an idea that I had recently since I do want to hire a copywriter for myself, too, is there are courses out there that teach copywriting? Right? And I'm sure there's Facebook groups attached to those courses, because that's how everybody does it these days. So I've been really thinking about contacting the creator of that course, whether it be through social media, whatever and say, Hey, I'm looking for a copywriter, would you like to provide this job posting to your students and see who is willing to apply that way? I know they've completed a legit copywriting course. And I would think that's helpful to all those students and that course creator, that she's able to, or he she or he is able to help their students get hired. So I was thinking about that. Yeah, that's a good idea.

Carrie: 48:02

So I guess we're coming to the end of things. Here. We are. Any more questions?

Bryan: 48:13

Yes. billion, but we don't have time.

Unknown Speaker: 48:17

Right, right. I think that, like, if I could leave people with anything, it's just like, be resourceful. Don't be afraid to watch a YouTube video or take an online course or look at someone else's show notes and kind of mimic what they did. It doesn't have to be you sitting down at a blank sheet of paper with the cursor blinking at you, like you can mimic what someone else has done that you think they're doing a good job at, and create it for yourself for your client. You don't have to recreate the wheel every time.

Carrie: 48:48

So Gabriel has a question. He says why start with a junior position instead of hiring somebody more senior? Hmm.

Unknown Speaker: 48:59

I mean, I guess that's where I have to still sit down and figure out what exact tasks I want someone to do for me, and what level of control I still want to maintain because I have problems with that.

Carrie: 49:13

I will say just starting with somebody who's more junior, just being able to train them the way you want, for me is really helpful. Like I like to start like young it and an experience working with younger editors, like younger in age, but newer, I've been able to like get them to edit the way I want to. And it it's just turned out really well. Like we were able to grow together. Right And no, but like they didn't have any preconceived ideas really. Right. And that was really helpful.

Unknown Speaker: 49:48

And I think that is what I'm kind of leaning towards. Like I'm not necessarily wanting someone to take this entire show and like here now it's your baby. I still want that to be my baby. But I want them to do the first pass. And you know, just kind of clean up the audio and take out the the arms and ahhs and all that and just help me out with some of that time. And then yes, like you said, Maybe they're wanting to take on more. So I'm still toying with what I want them to do. So, but y'all have a great prior episode, but I was listening to that's all about this. So we can plug that

Carrie: 50:29

we don't know what episode.

Bryan: 50:31

Yeah, I think it was Episode 30. Episode 33.

Unknown Speaker: 50:35

is about hiring contractors or VA. Anybody can pull the show up? I

Daniel: 50:39

think it's 31.

Carrie: 50:41

It'll be in the show notes first. Yeah, it will. Yeah,

Bryan: 50:44

awesome. ongoing challenge for some of us, me, maybe,

Unknown Speaker: 50:47

no, Episode 30. How to find, hire and manage a subcontractor. Nice.

Bryan: 50:53

I think it's probably about time for us to go ahead and transition to our pod decks Question of the day, we've got just a couple of minutes left. And this is, this is a real question. And just so that you don't think I'm playing favorites? I'm not sure that I have a good answer for this one yet. So I'm gonna go ahead and ask it. What's the weirdest tradition that your family has? Now for those of you that are watching live? Leave your answers in the chat, we'd like to know about your weird family traditions. Carrie, I think that you said that you have long sleeve too. Oh, perfect. You can have mine.

Carrie: 51:23

There. Yeah. So they're both involve driving, right. So whenever my family drives past a cow, we say hello to the cow and Moo. We also, we also look to see if the cow is laying down or standing up. So laying down usually means it's gonna rain. And so they're gonna give us our weather report. And then when we go over railroad tracks, or what we knew was once where rail, railroad tracks, we lift up our feet, I have heard of that person, make a wish. But at this point, we don't care. We just lift up, I just feels weird if you don't lift up your feet.

Daniel: 52:02

So mine, and I feel like Brienne wood is reading my mind, or there's something weird going on. But my wife and I, we did get every Christmas, see, we get Chinese takeout and watch. It's a Wonderful Life. That is our tradition. That's funny. That's funny. I'm trying to think.

Bryan: 52:24

So I'm not sure that we have a weird tradition. But one of the things that we like to do when we're feeling really lazy, is breakfast for dinner. That's, we like to take things and move them to the wrong time of day. And that just makes it extra special. That's good.

Unknown Speaker: 52:40

That's good. So kind of along that lines with food. So I don't I don't know if this is a tradition either. But, um, so this comes from back when we were super tight going through that financial journey that I mentioned at the very beginning. And we were like, Okay, we got $10 you're gonna go get burgers like, what are we gonna do? So we would go through the drive thru get like the bare bones burgers, right? Like just, you know, no cheese, like nothing that costs extra. Okay, and then bring it home and then put on like our own cheese, jalapenos. Like whatever else is in the frigerator. And like, make fancy burgers and like sit down and we just really enjoyed that. And to this day, the kids are like, are we gonna do our own cheese?

Carrie: 53:28

That idea that's awesome. Yeah, stealing it.

Unknown Speaker: 53:31

It's super silly, but I'm sure it saves you like 10 cents a burger or something. But if you think about it, like bacon and cheese and jalapeno, like all those add ons, all of a sudden you're spending way more than what you thought but you have that in the frigerator so the bacon is so much better when

Carrie: 53:47

it's like fresh at home and like

Daniel: 53:51

whatever the microwave is sitting in a ordinary heat lamp.

Unknown Speaker: 53:55

Yeah, right. Yeah. So whatever you got in the fridge and just make a fancy burger and it makes the night fun. I don't know.

Carrie: 54:02

Unless you don't have to cook the burger. Okay, I am really bad. I do not make a good hamburger. I'm just gonna throw that out there. Do not eat my hamburgers. They're horrible. Yeah,

Bryan: 54:12

that's a good one. I might try that on my kids because they would go for that. like nobody's business like

Carrie: 54:17

Belgium's great. It's like making pizza at home.

Unknown Speaker: 54:20

Yeah. Oh, wait, we do that too. We buy the GPP says. And then we like unwrap them and put on all these crazy toppings and spinach and broccoli and just all kinds of an elder burger, Michael. Awesome. But yeah, so then we have gourmet pizza too. And it's just stuff out of the frigerator because if you buy one of those pizzas, it's super expensive.

Carrie: 54:43

No, yeah, I know. Like if I get a pizza place and I want all my toppings I like it's like a $40 pizza. Yeah, yeah. So there we go. money saving food takeout

Bryan: 54:54

tips. Yeah, this has been great. We learned about copywriting and adding services and running a business and also making pizza I don't

Carrie: 55:00

like saving money on food right and time. Yeah, like I'm all about that because we're all busy editors, right? We're all like working for clients, but we want to eat well. So yeah.

Unknown Speaker: 55:13

And hey, like spinach on top of your pizza then it's like healthy, right? Oh, I love

Bryan: 55:18

Yeah. and basil to you get away with it. That's funny. So, if somebody wants to be a guest on the show, Carrie, would you like to tell them what they can do to get their face? right we're Virginia's is right now.

Daniel: 55:30

Okay, well, how about you Daniel? Yeah, just go to podcast editors mastermind comm slash be a guest fill out the form. And eventually I'll get back to you once I've checked my spam.

Bryan: 55:45

We paid extra for that feature. Don't get us wrong. This has been fun for those of you that have joined us in the chat for the live stream. Thank you for those that caught it later. We're glad that you joined us as well. We'll just kind of go around and do quick outro for each other and Virginia. When we get to you, you can tell everybody where to find you and all that stuff. And we'll say goodbye. So I'm Brian ensminger. top tier audio.com is where you'll find me or social media at top tier audio. We'll go around the other direction to carry

Carrie: 56:15

Terry Caulfield Eric, you can find me at Jojo podcasting calm or on Instagram at Carrie Arick

Daniel: 56:22

Daniel abendroth You can find me at Roth media dot audio. And if you're interested in Reaper information, go to Reaper for podcasting.com.

Unknown Speaker: 56:29

And I'm Virginia elder. Thanks for having me today, guys. You can find me at podcast abundance calm and then I'm also at podcast abundance on Instagram. And on Facebook.

Carrie: 56:41

One quick question. If somebody wants to be one of your contractors, or they're interested in talking to you about that, what do they do?

Unknown Speaker: 56:49

Yeah, that would be awesome. And email me at Virginia at podcast abundance.com Awesome.

Carrie: 56:58

Thank you so much for

Daniel: 56:59

links to all that. Everything we talked about is going to be in the show notes at podcast editors mastermind calm and there was a lot yeah,

Bryan: 57:09

I fingers are still burning. So yeah. Virginia. Thank you for joining us. This has been truly great. And for everybody that joined us in the audience. Thank you as well. So how much is that