Shownotes
Your photography website SEO could be the difference between being booked out and waiting for your next client to appear.
Your dream photography clients are opening up Google and are searching for someone just like you, my friend.
But if your photography website SEO isn’t optimized, those dreamy clients may never make their way to your website.
That’s why website SEO copywriter, Erin Ollila, is joining me today to talk about how to optimize your photography website SEO so your website can rank higher and serve your dream clients who are searching for YOU.
We’re breaking down SEO in ways that make it feel way less intimidating. Get ready to feel confident that you can tap into SEO to attract more clients to your website!
07:24 — SEO Is Simply How We Search and Find What We Want Online
14:26 — Understanding the Key Words and Phrases Your Clients Would Use to Find Your Business
19:53 — Why photographers should be using SEO to attract more dream clients
23:48— You don't have to fear being stuck with one niche with SEO
28:24— Where to start with SEO to get the results you're looking for
34:44 — The biggest challenge photographers face with standing out and attracting clients
36:48— How photographers should be naming their images on their website
44:09 — Why you should make your website accessible
47:44 — What results you can expect from SEO
53:37 — How to simplify SEO with a checklist that will get you started
📚MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
• Get the Website SEO Checklist https://erinollila.com/copywriter-on-call
👋 CONNECT WITH ERIN OLLILA (SHE/HER)
Erin Ollila believes in the power of words and how a message can inform – and even transform – its intended audience. Her work can be found all over the internet and in print, and includes interviews, ghostwriting, copywriting, and creative nonfiction. Erin is a geek for SEO and all things content marketing. She graduated from Fairfield University with an M.F.A. in Creative Writing and now hosts the Talk Copy to Me podcast.
Reach out to her on Instagram at @ErinOllila, or visit her website https://erinollila.com
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As a special bonus, just for my podcast listeners use code oncall for $50 off the course at whatsarasaid.com/course
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Transcripts
Well, first thing I would like to say is you absolutely can
Erin Ollila:d i y, your SEO, especially in the beginning phases of your business.
Erin Ollila:Don't let anyone tell you that either.
Erin Ollila:I'm here to break all these internet stereotypes, you
Erin Ollila:absolutely can d i y s SEO.
Erin Ollila:The reason why I think businesses try to say that you cannot is there
Erin Ollila:are so many intricacies with SEO.
Erin Ollila:You are listening to The Copywriter On Call podcast.
Erin Ollila:I'm your most Sarah Gillis copywriter, word, magic maker, and owner of
Erin Ollila:what Sarah said on this podcast.
Erin Ollila:You'll feel empowered to show up online in a way that has you saying, that's so me.
Erin Ollila:Let's get started.
Sara Gillis:All right.
Sara Gillis:Welcome back to another episode of The Copywriter on-Call podcast.
Sara Gillis:I am your host Sarah Gillis, and I am clocking some on-call hours
Sara Gillis:today with a like-minded industry friend and fellow podcaster.
Sara Gillis:Erin is an SEO copywriter for websites, a copy coach and the host
Sara Gillis:of the talk copy to me podcast.
Sara Gillis:Welcome Erin.
Erin Ollila:Thank you so much for having me.
Erin Ollila:I'm so excited to be here.
Sara Gillis:I am thrilled to have you, so I would love to just get started
Sara Gillis:with a quick little introduction.
Sara Gillis:Tell us who you are, what you do, and why you love what you do.
Erin Ollila:Absolutely.
Erin Ollila:I am Erin Ollila, as you mentioned.
Erin Ollila:I'm a copywriter and SEO strategist.
Erin Ollila:I love everything that has to do with story and marketing.
Erin Ollila:Pretty much.
Erin Ollila:I started my career actually coming out of the creative writing world.
Erin Ollila:I have my MFA in creative nonfiction.
Erin Ollila:Well, my undergraduates.
Erin Ollila:Degrees were also in writing things.
Erin Ollila:So I thought for sure I always come into this world going to be a professor
Erin Ollila:with lots of books under my name.
Erin Ollila:And while I do have a few books, I quickly realized that professors
Erin Ollila:one take forever to get tenured.
Erin Ollila:And that means pretty much that you're going to be working
Erin Ollila:at that college, long term.
Erin Ollila:And then, Pretty much until you get that tenor job, you're making a crap salary.
Erin Ollila:Excuse my language, you are making nothing.
Erin Ollila:And I was just like I have to pay for my M F A, I need to make some money.
Erin Ollila:And I was at the time working in human resources in the mental health.
Erin Ollila:Field.
Erin Ollila:I had been doing that for a while and I just said well, what is next?
Erin Ollila:It was the time of personal blogging, when you would literally just write
Erin Ollila:about your day and what you thought, and I thought, well, I'd really love to
Erin Ollila:do some blog writing and my first true.
Erin Ollila:Paid writing job in the marketing world, was for a company that wrote blog content,
Erin Ollila:SEOblog content actually for medium to bigger brands so that they could attract
Erin Ollila:people to their website, maybe sign up for their product and things like that.
Erin Ollila:And I was just thrown into the, well, deep end of you're going to learn this.
Erin Ollila:SEOyou're going to learn how to figure out how to this is the wrong word here, but
Erin Ollila:manipulate the words so that with a story.
Erin Ollila:So that you can capture people's interest and really make them make a decision
Erin Ollila:about whether or not they want to work with this business or this brand.
Erin Ollila:And I loved it.
Erin Ollila:I think it's my history, with the psychology world that I came from and
Erin Ollila:the writing world that I came from, it was able to put those two together to
Erin Ollila:think well, what are people thinking?
Erin Ollila:Why do they need this?
Erin Ollila:And why would this interest them and what would make them make a decision?
Erin Ollila:And then I could gamify all of that SEO and it was it worked
Erin Ollila:really well for my brain, just being able kind of continuously be
Erin Ollila:in a challenge with my own self.
Erin Ollila:, how can I do this?
Erin Ollila:So that way Google is very impressed with me and then my client is then
Erin Ollila:very impressed with me and I was just, I was really so fortunate
Erin Ollila:that's where it all started.
Erin Ollila:And then, To get to now.
Erin Ollila:I ended up working with some really humongous billion dollar brands for
Erin Ollila:a long time until I started my own business and I realized oh, these
Erin Ollila:poor little guys like me, , we have no clue what the heck we're doing.
Erin Ollila:We're all scrambling to try to just figure this out.
Erin Ollila:And I just really worked hard to wanting to work with people who are
Erin Ollila:in smaller businesses like myself, creative businesses, and that's the
Erin Ollila:whole whopping story right there.
Erin Ollila:You got more than I think you expected.
Sara Gillis:I love it.
Sara Gillis:I didn't know that your background was in creative writing.
Sara Gillis:My senior thesis as an undergrad was in creative nonfiction,
Sara Gillis:so
Erin Ollila:so fun.
Sara Gillis:nerding out right now.
Sara Gillis:I also thought that I was going to be a professor and write
Sara Gillis:books and just live that life.
Sara Gillis:That was my dream, that was my goal.
Sara Gillis:And I think in another life that would've happened.
Sara Gillis:Apart from the crap pay you were talking about, but also the lack of
Sara Gillis:flexibility when it comes to being a mama.
Sara Gillis:When I had my kids, my oldest is 11, when I had my kids, I was like, wait
Sara Gillis:a minute, I have to miss my own kids.
Sara Gillis:First day of school, I have to miss my own kids milestones
Sara Gillis:to be there for my students.
Sara Gillis:And I think it's important, but at the same time it's dang, I'm missing out.
Sara Gillis:I'm missing out on things.
Erin Ollila:Same for me.
Erin Ollila:My oldest child is my stepchild.
Erin Ollila:And when that was, right when I got my, m f a and which is a
Erin Ollila:terminal degree, which allows
Sara Gillis:Mm-hmm.
Erin Ollila:teach as a PhD would.
Erin Ollila:And, but the problem is not every college has creative writing programs, so it's
Sara Gillis:Right.
Erin Ollila:do I want to move across the country after I just started
Erin Ollila:this relationship with raising a child and be like, oh, it was really
Erin Ollila:nice to know you for a couple years.
Erin Ollila:See ya.
Erin Ollila:We'll just be a long distance relationship as well.
Erin Ollila:And I just, for me, a lot of that was, It just didn't seem as thrilling anymore.
Erin Ollila:I think the idea, I think when you're a writer, it's like meaning
Erin Ollila:writing books and things like that.
Erin Ollila:You have this, it's a solo experience, right?
Erin Ollila:And when you open your world, I think up to more humans other than
Erin Ollila:yourself, there's a lot of reckoning and adjustments that have to be made.
Erin Ollila:Also, blog content.
Erin Ollila:Is a lot shorter than a book.
Sara Gillis:There you go.
Erin Ollila:someone with a d h D it was like, I I don't know, maybe
Erin Ollila:I could give myself more often gold stars, which I needed, right?
Erin Ollila:That's just something about me personally.
Erin Ollila:I like completing things and I like that satisfaction of looking back on
Erin Ollila:what I've researched and ruminated about and to see results from it.
Erin Ollila:So, writing a book can take years worth of time and if anything, there's less gold
Erin Ollila:because it's like over and over again, you're just told well this needs work.
Erin Ollila:You need to change this, you need to scrap that.
Erin Ollila:This isn't working, this isn't good.
Erin Ollila:And I think you get less of that in the marketing world.
Erin Ollila:So, we just psychoanalyze me, everyone, and I think I figured it all out.
Sara Gillis:I think I fit in some of those buckets for sure.
Sara Gillis:It's really interesting to think about that solo act of writing.
Sara Gillis:Because what I love so much is the fact that I can be in a creative space on my
Sara Gillis:own and really live in and exist in that space, but I also get to serve really
Sara Gillis:cool people and surround myself with industry friends that really help to make.
Sara Gillis:All of it worth it.
Sara Gillis:That was something I was really nervous about when I left education is because you
Sara Gillis:have those built-in friendships, right?
Sara Gillis:I was a teacher for almost a decade, and those people who taught next
Sara Gillis:door, you could run and celebrate a win and run and cry quick too.
Sara Gillis:And I missed out on that in my very first few months of
Sara Gillis:entrepreneurship, but I'm so glad to have that back in a different form.
Erin Ollila:Yeah.
Erin Ollila:No, and you're totally right in that because I'm over seven years in business
Erin Ollila:now, and I will say I still miss that.
Erin Ollila:That's probably the one biggest thing I don't enjoy about being self-employed.
Erin Ollila:But I think the way to reframe it, like you mentioned is you can get that level
Erin Ollila:of relationship with the clients you have, with the colleagues, whether they're
Erin Ollila:writers like we are together or like a website designer, a marketing person.
Erin Ollila:You can rebuild those relationships, but it's, it has to be a conscious
Erin Ollila:choice and it's hard to sometimes put yourself out there, right?
Erin Ollila:Even with clients to build relationships and rapports.
Erin Ollila:But you are right.
Erin Ollila:If you look for that type of camaraderie, you can find it.
Erin Ollila:You just have to go and find it.
Sara Gillis:Yeah, absolutely.
Sara Gillis:It's not built in anymore and I certainly don't take it for granted
Sara Gillis:anymore because it does take that intentional effort for sure.
Sara Gillis:All right.
Sara Gillis:Let's get into the good stuff here.
Sara Gillis:Let's talk about SEO.
Sara Gillis:So share with me a little bit about how you explain SEO to the people
Sara Gillis:that you work with, the brands and the clients that you work with.
Sara Gillis:And feel free to define some key terms as well.
Sara Gillis:It's, whenever I mention sSEO, I swear my clients are like, Ooh, that's scary.
Sara Gillis:I don't know.
Erin Ollila:Yes.
Erin Ollila:Yeah.
Erin Ollila:People are either really excited about SEO because they know about the
Erin Ollila:possibilities, but even those who are excited are always like a little
Erin Ollila:bit of deer in headlights, you've given me too much information and I
Erin Ollila:don't know how to process this all, but I promise it's not that hard.
Erin Ollila:I think the easiest way to get SEO is to look at it from a consumer standpoint.
Erin Ollila:So, let's just say actually earlier today I was reading a new author and I know
Erin Ollila:that author wrote in some series of books, and I thought to myself, well, I don't
Erin Ollila:really know anything about this person.
Erin Ollila:So I typed in her name and I typed in book series and the internet.
Erin Ollila:In this case, Google gave me a whole bunch of pages that I could click
Erin Ollila:into and make the decision about how to learn more about that person.
Erin Ollila:Meaning I could see her book list on her website.
Erin Ollila:I could read reviews from other people about what the books that she
Erin Ollila:wrote, and then I, as the consumer, as the end user, got to choose.
Erin Ollila:Okay, well, this is the link I want to click because it's going to give
Erin Ollila:me the exact information I need.
Erin Ollila:There are a million other reasons I use the internet.
Erin Ollila:I think it was like the statistic says that people might make 32 Google
Erin Ollila:searches a day, and I'm solidly over about 320 Google searches easily every day.
Erin Ollila:But I ask the internet if I'm cooking, what can I use
Erin Ollila:instead of using this ingredient
Erin Ollila:or how many Teaspoons are in one tablespoon, right?
Erin Ollila:I ask it questions that my children ask me throughout the day that
Erin Ollila:I do not know the answers to.
Erin Ollila:So.
Erin Ollila:As an end user, as a consumer, we go to the internet to find answers.
Erin Ollila:I also like to liken it to an encyclopedia of sorts that you can go to and get
Erin Ollila:an answer for what you're seeking.
Erin Ollila:But now, if we want to look at SEO from the lens of a business, the
Erin Ollila:truest thing that SEO does, SEOstands for search Engine optimization.
Erin Ollila:And what that means is any type of copy or content that you create for your
Erin Ollila:business that exists on your website.
Erin Ollila:You are making it better so that the internet can serve it to
Erin Ollila:the people who are searching.
Erin Ollila:So, like I mentioned about The author on her website, she may have labeled
Erin Ollila:the pages in specific ways or put the book names in specific ways so that her
Erin Ollila:readers could better find her website
Erin Ollila:in the case of cooking.
Erin Ollila:As an example, if it were a recipe blog, they're taking steps within
Erin Ollila:every article that they write or on the pages they have on their site to use
Erin Ollila:certain words and phrases that The end users, the consumers are searching for.
Erin Ollila:So in its truest form, it's just making things better to give Google
Erin Ollila:an upper hand to help the business, find a larger or newer and a more
Erin Ollila:strategic audience for the copy and the content that they're creating.
Erin Ollila:I know you asked for some definitions here.
Erin Ollila:So a few things that sometimes people will hear and not understand are, is
Erin Ollila:the word serp, s e r p, that just stands for your search engine results page.
Erin Ollila:So literally, once you press enter, Any type of question that you ask,
Erin Ollila:or key phrase that you enter into the little box in Google, the results that
Erin Ollila:appear in your screen, that's the serp.
Erin Ollila:So as a business owner, our goal is to get our content as high as possible on
Erin Ollila:that search engine page so that people click up into our copy and our content.
Erin Ollila:because we all know.
Erin Ollila:Now it's pretty much revolving, right?
Erin Ollila:So you can keep scrolling and scrolling, but back in the day there
Erin Ollila:used to be 10 results on each page.
Erin Ollila:And I think we all know nobody makes it to page 10, 12, right?
Erin Ollila:Like for results.
Erin Ollila:With all of those options, you're going to find what you're
Erin Ollila:looking for somewhere early.
Erin Ollila:So the higher you can be, the closer you can be to the top of the
Erin Ollila:page, the more likely people will.
Erin Ollila:Find your business and either learn from you or hire you or enter your
Erin Ollila:world so you can nurture them a bit.
Erin Ollila:A few of the other things to consider when it comes to SEO in regard to
Erin Ollila:definitions are things like keywords.
Erin Ollila:Now, I, rally about this for days.
Erin Ollila:Keywords are not single words.
Erin Ollila:Keywords can also be phrases, could they be a single word?
Erin Ollila:Sure.
Erin Ollila:But it is going to be incredibly hard to rank for a single word on the internet.
Erin Ollila:So likely you're often using a phrase of words when you are trying to
Erin Ollila:optimize or make better the copy or the content that's on your website.
Erin Ollila:And then there are a few other things that people will ask about, such
Erin Ollila:as things like meta descriptions.
Erin Ollila:I think we, maybe we'll get a little bit more into that, into the
Erin Ollila:conversation, but when you're on that search engine results page, you'll
Erin Ollila:often see there's a title of the page so you know what that page is about.
Erin Ollila:And then there's a very small description in regular, text font.
Erin Ollila:Underneath that small description is usually the meta description of the page.
Erin Ollila:It's basically giving the people who look at the internet a hint at what to expect.
Erin Ollila:And if you want to win a SEO, The best advice I can give anyone when
Erin Ollila:it comes to a D I Y or even like a done for you, you're hiring it out.
Erin Ollila:Even if you're not working with me, you're working with someone else, you
Erin Ollila:want to make sure that whatever the page title is or that meta description
Erin Ollila:is on that search engine result.
Erin Ollila:Is clear that the intent of the client is going to be what they get served.
Erin Ollila:So let's just say, my example of how many teaspoons are in a tablespoon.
Erin Ollila:If the title of that page is teaspoon to tablespoon conversion, and then the meta
Erin Ollila:description says something like, not sure how many teaspoons are in a tablespoon,
Erin Ollila:you'll learn how when you click this blog.
Erin Ollila:If they then come to a website page.
Erin Ollila:Like a blog page that starts talking about the history of teaspoons and the
Erin Ollila:history of tablespoons and the types of materials that they could be made out of.
Erin Ollila:The person's going to be frustrated and they're going to leave, so you
Erin Ollila:need to make sure that whatever you serve up from that search engine page,
Erin Ollila:Matches the intent of the search.
Erin Ollila:That is the biggest mistake people make, and it is the biggest way to I guess
Erin Ollila:make yourself look bad in Google's eyes.
Erin Ollila:So whatever you put for that page title, whatever you put for the meta description,
Erin Ollila:if you learn nothing more today, just know you want the searcher to say, here's
Erin Ollila:my interest in looking at this page.
Erin Ollila:And my interest has been made.
Erin Ollila:Correct.
Erin Ollila:You've served me what I want and that's how you win an SEO.
Sara Gillis:Yeah, I love that I often liken SEO to making friends with Google.
Sara Gillis:I think it's a friendship that takes nurture and it can have bumps along
Sara Gillis:the way and that's a big bump and you don't want to have that happen.
Sara Gillis:I think that a lot of the things that I work through with my clients
Sara Gillis:is understanding that SEO is just a longer game, and I would love
Sara Gillis:to hear your perspective about why it's a game worth playing.
Erin Ollila:Oh yeah, a hundred percent.
Erin Ollila:It is absolutely a long-term game in this, I would say this online
Erin Ollila:business world, we're all taught very incorrectly to look for short-term wins.
Erin Ollila:And I think societally I mentioned, gold stars early.
Erin Ollila:We want to see a result and we want to congratulate ourself on those results.
Erin Ollila:However, if you would analyze any type of business over the past century, you'll
Erin Ollila:see that gains and wins are usually.
Erin Ollila:After a long term effort, even your small town, main street store,
Erin Ollila:they don't open up and then become millionaires within, three months of
Erin Ollila:opening their tiny store on Main Street.
Erin Ollila:However, maybe decades after being open and being a family run store, they're so
Erin Ollila:well known that there's no need to have a C v s or a Walgreens in that area, right?
Erin Ollila:Because everyone loves this tiny pharmacy or, convenience store
Erin Ollila:because it's a long-term win.
Erin Ollila:Now, I love that you liken SEO to becoming friends with Google, because I always
Erin Ollila:liken it to having Google be your wingman,
Sara Gillis:Oh, cool.
Erin Ollila:I personally was an excellent wingman in my college days, or
Erin Ollila:wingwoman, I would say not so much the best at flirting myself but here's where
Erin Ollila:I have a super respect for the wingman.
Erin Ollila:It's that they are able to hype you up and present you as the best option.
Erin Ollila:Now you give your wingman enough information to do that credibly,
Erin Ollila:to make them like you friendship wise, we're trying to tie
Erin Ollila:our two things together here.
Erin Ollila:If they like you and they want to hype you up and serve you to the right people,
Erin Ollila:they're going to do a great job at it.
Erin Ollila:You do want to make a Google Your friend, and you do that by creating
Erin Ollila:the best content that they can share.
Erin Ollila:Real, it it, I don't want to oversimplify it, but it is really that simple.
Erin Ollila:So if you say, I mean this is all metaphorically here, but if you say,
Erin Ollila:here, Google, here is a blog post that I've worked really hard on.
Erin Ollila:I'm targeting this specific keyword.
Erin Ollila:I'm doing it in a truly natural way.
Erin Ollila:I'm not stuffing keywords.
Erin Ollila:I'm really trying to teach people or to nurture people.
Erin Ollila:To do some storytelling around this, share my expertise.
Erin Ollila:Google's going to say, well, thanks.
Erin Ollila:You just made my job so much easier.
Erin Ollila:Now that I know you work so hard at this random business on the internet, I'm
Erin Ollila:going to share this with my friends, the entire internet and I'm going to make sure
Erin Ollila:that you are one of the first things I share because it's, you did such a good
Erin Ollila:job, you really are being helpful and you really have shared your expertise because
Erin Ollila:there's a bajillion pieces of content out there in the world and it is their
Erin Ollila:job to share it, but Think about the I know we're just talking about tech here
Erin Ollila:and not a real human, but maybe because I like to humanize Google, think about the
Erin Ollila:amount of effort that it takes to sort through that and figure out what to share.
Erin Ollila:So if you are truly just putting in some slight effort, you're going to
Erin Ollila:get moving up the ranks quickly because you're making it easier for Google.
Erin Ollila:And I derailed here because I know we're talking about long-term growth,
Erin Ollila:but the beauty of this, if we can put aside our own personal ego and
Erin Ollila:our own need for a short-term win.
Erin Ollila:The beauty of SEO is that assuming that it's approached from like a, not
Erin Ollila:a time specific or a new specific need.
Erin Ollila:If we're doing more evergreen content or even evergreen copy.
Erin Ollila:It's going to serve you for that long run.
Erin Ollila:So it's not just that it takes a long time to happen, it's that it
Erin Ollila:also serves you for a very long time.
Erin Ollila:In the job I told you about earlier one of the reasons I think it
Erin Ollila:really even convinced me with SEO is we had a lead come to us.
Erin Ollila:They were not a client, but a lead came to us because a small
Erin Ollila:blog post that they had written, explaining a product that they had.
Erin Ollila:Went truly viral two years after they had written it.
Erin Ollila:It was not a good written blog post, but it explained something that just came up
Erin Ollila:within social popularity two years later.
Erin Ollila:And not only did they sell out of their product, but they sold out of
Erin Ollila:their presale for their second batch of product and their business made a.
Erin Ollila:Ton of money that changed their lives like that.
Erin Ollila:The business owner's lives so drastically that they were like,
Erin Ollila:tell us how to do this again.
Erin Ollila:Which let me tell you, if anyone promises you anything with SEO,
Erin Ollila:run, because there's no promises.
Erin Ollila:I will literally say, and I am pretty much not someone who likes to boast and brag,
Erin Ollila:but I am an SEOexpert in my own right.
Erin Ollila:No one can promise you anything but I always like to tell people
Erin Ollila:it's a kid and studying for a test.
Erin Ollila:If you didn't study and you really just tried to cram 30 minutes
Erin Ollila:before you took the test you can't really complain if you didn't win.
Erin Ollila:But if you put the effort in and you actually did things the
Erin Ollila:right way, you will be rewarded.
Erin Ollila:While I can't promise you anything, if you do this the right way,
Erin Ollila:you will absolutely get those long-term benefits in your business.
Sara Gillis:I think that's so true and honestly I think that we as writers, but
Sara Gillis:also we as business owners, really want to think about investing in what will last.
Sara Gillis:Right.
Sara Gillis:And SEOis something that will last.
Sara Gillis:And I love the flip that you gave about.
Sara Gillis:It will serve you too.
Sara Gillis:It will serve you and it will serve your audience.
Sara Gillis:That's a really good shift.
Sara Gillis:I love that.
Erin Ollila:Thank you.
Sara Gillis:So we work a lot here in the, what Sarah said, side of the
Sara Gillis:world with photographers, and I would love to hear some photography specific
Sara Gillis:types of tips and tricks that you have.
Sara Gillis:So if someone is a photographer and they're looking to just d i y, this SEO
Sara Gillis:and get started, start the wheel moving, where's a good place for them to start?
Erin Ollila:Well, first thing I would like to say is you absolutely can
Erin Ollila:d i y, your SEO, especially in the beginning phases of your business.
Erin Ollila:Don't let anyone tell you that either.
Erin Ollila:I'm here to break all these internet stereotypes, you
Erin Ollila:absolutely can d i y s SEO.
Erin Ollila:The reason why I think businesses try to say that you cannot is there
Erin Ollila:are so many intricacies with SEO.
Erin Ollila:If you touch one thing, it affects 40 things and it's not necessarily
Erin Ollila:easy for an SEO strategist.
Erin Ollila:To explain that, right?
Erin Ollila:So, I might be able to tell my client, well, you do this for this reason, but you
Erin Ollila:might do the opposite for another reason.
Erin Ollila:So that's why I think a lot of times SEO people will say oh no, just hire it out
Erin Ollila:because there are so many intricacies.
Erin Ollila:However, if you are going to d i y, your SEO, there are so many things
Erin Ollila:that you can do easily, I would say to make even a slight improvement.
Erin Ollila:It might not completely change your business, but for photographers
Erin Ollila:specifically, I will always recommend, unless you are truly a traveling
Erin Ollila:photographer and you do like global work target your local keywords.
Erin Ollila:So I live in Massachusetts, but I also live very close
Erin Ollila:to the Rhode Island border.
Erin Ollila:So if I were a photographer in this area, maybe I would say south
Erin Ollila:Coast Massachusetts photographer.
Erin Ollila:Providence photographer, Rhode Island photographer, Massachusetts photographer.
Erin Ollila:And you're not going to write that in every paragraph and section on your
Erin Ollila:website, but it could be as simple as updating your footer to have a
Erin Ollila:few location based words in there, so, proudly serving the providence.
Erin Ollila:Fall River, new Bedford Brockton areas or something to that effect.
Erin Ollila:And your footer is most likely on every page of your website.
Erin Ollila:So that location keywords will be there.
Erin Ollila:But then with photography, I will say I am so jealous of photographer's
Erin Ollila:websites, like no matter what not that they're necessarily easy.
Erin Ollila:I obviously understand everyone, especially if you're DIYing, you're
Erin Ollila:hearing this and you're like, what?
Erin Ollila:This is not easy.
Erin Ollila:But from the like website person's standpoint, Photographers have it so easy
Erin Ollila:because you have the beautiful images
Erin Ollila:right?
Erin Ollila:And that does so much to convince people to work with you.
Erin Ollila:But because we're looking at from an SEOlens, the other thing besides location
Erin Ollila:to think about is the niche of photography
Erin Ollila:so not as it just family photographer, it's a newborn photographer.
Erin Ollila:It's first birthday smash photography.
Erin Ollila:It is.
Erin Ollila:Maternity photography, it is annual family photography.
Erin Ollila:It is holiday photography.
Erin Ollila:So I would say look at the niche that you have and it, it's not just families that
Erin Ollila:have this, even weddings, you're looking at things like engagement photos, you're
Erin Ollila:looking at things like I wouldn't even know how to say this, but like the stylist
Erin Ollila:photos that you do in the morning before.
Erin Ollila:The wedding, like that's just a, obviously a tiny part.
Erin Ollila:As a photographer you might think, well, that's just included in my like
Erin Ollila:six hours that I do on the day of.
Erin Ollila:But people are searching for things like, well, what images do
Erin Ollila:I need taken on my wedding day?
Erin Ollila:Or it could be like cocktail hour photography, like all
Erin Ollila:of these little things.
Erin Ollila:It could be like trash, the dress photography.
Erin Ollila:Are things people are absolutely searching for.
Erin Ollila:So if you can get a really good grasp on what your location keywords are
Erin Ollila:and a really good grasp on what your industry keywords are, and I wouldn't
Erin Ollila:necessarily do all of them at once, but find like a combination of some that
Erin Ollila:will absolutely give you a huge jump in what's happening on your website
Erin Ollila:right now without doing anything.
Sara Gillis:When I work with clients, I call that a positioning statement.
Sara Gillis:It positions you where you're located geographically, but also
Sara Gillis:where you're at in your industry.
Sara Gillis:And I think that's a really important piece industry-wise, because I know, for
Sara Gillis:instance, my business evolves, right?
Sara Gillis:I initially started out serving primarily real estate agents and I
Sara Gillis:don't serve them necessarily anymore.
Sara Gillis:And so that was an update I had to make in my own positioning and
Sara Gillis:so, Recognizing that you can give yourself permission to evolve.
Sara Gillis:You can give your business permission to evolve, and then allowing that
Sara Gillis:positioning statement to evolve.
Sara Gillis:That was a real big gift that my business coach gave to me.
Sara Gillis:She's well just change.
Sara Gillis:Just shift.
Sara Gillis:It doesn't have to be complicated.
Sara Gillis:Yeah,
Erin Ollila:And then I'm going to rewind tiny bit before what you said is one block
Erin Ollila:that almost everyone has that whether they're working on me, for me to do it
Erin Ollila:for them or like collaboratively on these kind of things is people don't want to
Erin Ollila:niche because of the fear of niching.
Erin Ollila:I get it.
Erin Ollila:In my own business.
Erin Ollila:It's even something I'm struggling with now, fully seven years
Erin Ollila:in business for myself, but.
Erin Ollila:There's two approaches to this.
Erin Ollila:You can say that you do everything on your website.
Erin Ollila:Especially when the everything that you do is within a bucket like photography
Erin Ollila:you can say you are a wedding and family photographer.
Erin Ollila:You are a brand.
Erin Ollila:And family photographer, right?
Erin Ollila:Like you could say you're a baby and a business headshot photographer, whatever.
Erin Ollila:That's cool.
Erin Ollila:You can do that.
Erin Ollila:And in doing that, my best advice for you is use those keywords heavily.
Erin Ollila:So instead of just Rhode Island photographer, it is a business headshot
Erin Ollila:photographer in Rhode Island, right?
Erin Ollila:So you're really relying on the type of work that you do.
Erin Ollila:Or it's go all in.
Erin Ollila:Because if you go all in for like infant photography and then one
Erin Ollila:day you decide I hate babies.
Erin Ollila:Like all
Sara Gillis:I'm over it.
Erin Ollila:and poop, right?
Erin Ollila:I'm done.
Erin Ollila:I don't want to deal with another baby.
Erin Ollila:I'm only taking pictures of people for their, like their
Erin Ollila:personal brand, their businesses.
Erin Ollila:Then Google still knows you as a photographer, so they might be
Erin Ollila:like, wait a second you don't want to hang out with babies anymore.
Erin Ollila:Oh, okay.
Erin Ollila:You want to hang out with big kids?
Erin Ollila:That's like Google still sees the photography, so it's not that scary
Erin Ollila:when you're staying in the same industry like, and it's not that hard to re-rank
Erin Ollila:because it all is under the category that Google is like categorizing us.
Erin Ollila:However, if I decide that I'm going to start being like, a
Erin Ollila:bread blog baker on ala.com.
Erin Ollila:going to be like, sourdough.
Erin Ollila:What?
Erin Ollila:What I thought you were talking about, like words and SEO, like
Erin Ollila:what the heck is the sourdough part coming into this conversation and.
Erin Ollila:It will be a stalling point.
Erin Ollila:Like a full industry change is a stalling point, but then it's also not overcomeable
Erin Ollila:because if you truly change industry, you are going to create new copy and new
Erin Ollila:content for that industry, and you will maybe hold on pieces to your old stuff.
Erin Ollila:Likely get rid of it.
Erin Ollila:So it's just like taking Google your friend, your wingman and being like,
Erin Ollila:listen dude, I know you used to introduce me to these type of people, but I
Erin Ollila:really have want to be introduced to those type so it's not insurmountable.
Erin Ollila:And I think that quite often we're all taught these SEO rules and at
Erin Ollila:least as a rule follower myself, I get that like people think if it's a
Erin Ollila:rule, it is a rule, but it's not so.
Erin Ollila:It's not anything that can't be changed, can't be overcome.
Erin Ollila:If anything, Google just has, I think when I checked in the pandemic ish days,
Erin Ollila:because I had known the data pre pandemic, so during the pandemic time I wanted
Erin Ollila:to see how is SEO evolving And I think.
Erin Ollila:In 2019 to 21, let's say Google had 600 algorithm updates a year.
Erin Ollila:That's more, well, that's about two a day.
Erin Ollila:Okay.
Erin Ollila:So if Google can change its algorithm two times a day, then we can change
Erin Ollila:anything that we need and move through that and still see success.
Erin Ollila:So yes, there are rules, there are best practices, but.
Erin Ollila:As long as you're trying, as you're working toward it in a best practice
Erin Ollila:manner, you can make any adjustments that you need with your SEO.
Sara Gillis:I think that's so true and it's freeing.
Sara Gillis:To realize that, that you are free to evolve, your business is free to
Sara Gillis:evolve and that you aren't, quote, unquote, breaking any rules when
Sara Gillis:that happens, it's natural and it's
Sara Gillis:normal.
Erin Ollila:totally.
Sara Gillis:I love that.
Sara Gillis:So if a photographer would reach out to you and say, look
Sara Gillis:this whole thing overwhelms me.
Sara Gillis:Can you just handle it?
Sara Gillis:Where would you start beyond the location piece and beyond the industry pieces?
Sara Gillis:Where would you start with them?
Erin Ollila:And it's going to sound something that you might not expect,
Erin Ollila:but I would do the research first because what I just said to you, the
Erin Ollila:idea of using your local area, the idea of using your keywords, That's the
Erin Ollila:best advice I can give on a podcast.
Erin Ollila:But it is a guess and I think that's what people need to remember.
Erin Ollila:I just worked with a client who had worked with an SEO person before and was really
Erin Ollila:upset because they spent a ton of money on these mostly location based things.
Erin Ollila:But what they weren't told is no one was searching for that.
Erin Ollila:Some clients, some industries, and I'll tell you photographers,
Erin Ollila:don't worry too much.
Erin Ollila:People are totally searching for location-based photographers.
Erin Ollila:So you've got that there, but this particular client, like the idea of
Erin Ollila:location, was really throwing their actual efforts off and they could have been
Erin Ollila:better served if they had rewound and instead of guessing, did a lot of research
Erin Ollila:based on their, one, their assumptions, things like industry and location.
Erin Ollila:And two, based on any market research that they might have for their own business.
Erin Ollila:An example is an interior designer I worked with at one time, she
Erin Ollila:kept using the word remodel.
Erin Ollila:She wanted to use that within her copy.
Erin Ollila:But what we found out was in her local area specifically, people
Erin Ollila:were searching for renovation.
Erin Ollila:So those words are, synonyms.
Erin Ollila:But again, based on the target location, no one was searching for a remodel.
Erin Ollila:It just wasn't maybe the their vernacular.
Erin Ollila:Right?
Erin Ollila:So before doing anything, I would really, truly do as much research as
Erin Ollila:I could so that we weren't guessing.
Erin Ollila:because no true strategy is based on a guess and then, You said this already, but
Erin Ollila:I would do some basics like the website pages, and one thing I love to say to
Erin Ollila:everyone is, while we say things take a long time, one thing I really want people
Erin Ollila:to understand is your pages are not going to be the best SEO bang for your buck.
Erin Ollila:They are vital to have some type of keyword.
Erin Ollila:That's really where location keywords work really well, but.
Erin Ollila:I like to tell people, if you think of SEO as how many doors that you have for
Erin Ollila:people to enter your business if you have, let's say, a three page website, then
Erin Ollila:that's three doors that they can come in.
Erin Ollila:They have to come in and exit those same doors.
Erin Ollila:Now, if you also have a blog that is attached to your business and it has
Erin Ollila:good information, maybe you have just 12 posts a year, or maybe you have
Erin Ollila:36, but those now have given you.
Erin Ollila:36 more entrances that people can come into your world for things
Erin Ollila:that they're actively looking for solutions for, or, not even solutions,
Erin Ollila:but things they're excited about.
Erin Ollila:So the more content you have, the better opportunity you have to rank.
Erin Ollila:And after the research, after the quick and dirty location based
Erin Ollila:things, I always try to tell people to think of things that don't seem.
Erin Ollila:SEO.
Erin Ollila:Obvious.
Sara Gillis:An
Erin Ollila:example be case studies in the photography
Erin Ollila:world, instead of case studies, I would like to say like portfolio
Erin Ollila:so if your clients are allowing you to showcase their like wedding
Erin Ollila:or their family photography or their brand photography, and
Erin Ollila:you can build a story out of it.
Erin Ollila:That is going to be the best SEO bang for your buck because the people
Erin Ollila:who want to read that and who are looking at your portfolio have already
Erin Ollila:acknowledged that you are a potential person that they can work with.
Erin Ollila:And then you are telling them how you provided exactly what they want
Erin Ollila:to someone else and they can see it.
Erin Ollila:It's kind of like, you I can see it, I could taste it and I could feel it.
Erin Ollila:It's a real thing.
Erin Ollila:With a case study for or obviously a portfolio here, that's it.
Erin Ollila:Like the people are, they've already acknowledged you as a potential
Erin Ollila:person they can give their money to, and now you are just convincing
Erin Ollila:them that you are the right person
Sara Gillis:Right.
Erin Ollila:their money to.
Erin Ollila:So not only have you made the decision easier, but they're coming into your now
Erin Ollila:like working relationship with confidence and excitement, which is only going to
Erin Ollila:improve your customer experience and make them be like thrilled to work with you.
Erin Ollila:I would say, I know I've taken a long time to answer these questions today,
Erin Ollila:but I would say beyond the basic stuff, I would look for those opportunities
Erin Ollila:like that, like things that can really wow people, things that can help with
Erin Ollila:conversion, that's not just so obvious like a sales page or a services page.
Erin Ollila:But something where I can showcase to them maybe social
Erin Ollila:proof or an educational piece.
Erin Ollila:If your clients are asking the same things, like how to prep for their
Erin Ollila:engagement photos while anyone on their internet can find this.
Erin Ollila:That's okay.
Erin Ollila:They might not hire you because if you're working in Alaska and these
Erin Ollila:people are in Singapore, it just might not be like, okay, well it's a big
Erin Ollila:jump for me to come take your photos.
Erin Ollila:But for those local people to you that they do read this and that, you
Erin Ollila:have now prepared if you are going to compare you as a photographer
Erin Ollila:against another photographer who has no educational information, they're
Erin Ollila:sold from you because you've just held their hand through something
Erin Ollila:that they really needed help with.
Sara Gillis:Right.
Sara Gillis:I often tell my photography clients, you should write something about
Sara Gillis:what to wear for family photos.
Sara Gillis:I can't tell you how many times I've taken family photos in the
Sara Gillis:11 so years I've been a mom, but every year I'm like, what do I wear?
Sara Gillis:How do I search this?
Sara Gillis:and I'm like, yeah.
Sara Gillis:I'm like, guys,
Erin Ollila:I have hired someone locally because they actually had that piece
Erin Ollila:for the like fourth year that I did it.
Erin Ollila:You think I'd know by that point.
Erin Ollila:But I stumbled upon someone local's blog about Actually being strategic.
Erin Ollila:Like it doesn't have to be the exact same color.
Erin Ollila:It doesn't have to be the exact same print.
Erin Ollila:And I was like, done, done.
Erin Ollila:Take my money.
Erin Ollila:I don't care what you, cost.
Erin Ollila:If you can make this seem simple to me, when it's something that's
Erin Ollila:always not worked for my brain, I'm not the most stylish person
Sara Gillis:Yeah.
Erin Ollila:I'm like, if you are going to do bring up this confidence in me that
Erin Ollila:I know how to dress for these, I know I'm going to feel more comfortable because
Erin Ollila:my clothing makes me feel comfortable.
Erin Ollila:Not I'm trying to be someone that I'm not.
Erin Ollila:So the pictures are going to come out better because of that So yes
Erin Ollila:SEO can attract those people to you.
Sara Gillis:absolutely.
Sara Gillis:I love that.
Sara Gillis:I think that's something I think about a lot is what kind of content can you
Sara Gillis:create that sure, maybe somebody you know three states over has also created,
Sara Gillis:but your unique appeal, your unique location, your unique spin on it can
Sara Gillis:really bring those people right to you.
Erin Ollila:Yeah, I always say like earlier I mentioned I'm jealous of
Erin Ollila:photographer's website, but the one trouble that photographers have is they
Erin Ollila:have a high level of competition locally.
Erin Ollila:So you know, it might be that like, Let's say a wedding, a photographer,
Erin Ollila:for example, when I searched for wedding photography I searched for
Erin Ollila:people who were local and I wanted to know like what the package looked like.
Erin Ollila:And I obviously, I could make a very quick decision on whether I
Erin Ollila:liked their photography just from seeing the images on their website.
Erin Ollila:But if I'm only comparing like X amount of dollars to X amount of hours,
Erin Ollila:then I'm truly just comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
Erin Ollila:So if you can do the slightest thing
Sara Gillis:Mm-hmm.
Erin Ollila:apart from someone, is an example.
Erin Ollila:Let's copy an SEO same time.
Erin Ollila:Let's say you've done a really good job attracting them to your website sales page
Erin Ollila:that has all your offers and explains it.
Erin Ollila:And maybe there are some links of downloadable things on that page.
Erin Ollila:Like a how to know who's the right photographer for you, guide or how
Erin Ollila:to dress for your engagement photos, or how to prepare a list of images
Erin Ollila:for your wedding day, if it's on that page that shows how much you know,
Erin Ollila:that your packages are, shows them their options, and it's just something
Erin Ollila:that's not going to distract them.
Erin Ollila:Meaning they're not leaving that page.
Erin Ollila:They can just download it to the download folder and check it out later.
Erin Ollila:When they compare you to the four other people in your local area that
Erin Ollila:have very similar prices, very similar offers, and zero content because you,
Erin Ollila:photographers don't like words like, let's just be honest with each other.
Erin Ollila:You like your pictures and you don't have enough words at all.
Erin Ollila:You won, you, they don't even need to look at the four because you have
Erin Ollila:so similar offers, but the fact that you went above and beyond, you're
Erin Ollila:selling yourself there majorly.
Sara Gillis:Yeah.
Sara Gillis:I love that.
Sara Gillis:I think any sort of inkling that you have to set yourself apart is
Sara Gillis:something you should listen to, right?
Sara Gillis:Whether it's creating a downloadable checklist, which, like you said, not many
Sara Gillis:words, but can really pack in that value.
Sara Gillis:That's huge.
Sara Gillis:The other major question I get from my photography clients is
Sara Gillis:how do I name my images on my
Sara Gillis:website?
Erin Ollila:glad you asked that.
Erin Ollila:Yeah.
Sara Gillis:And honestly it's a little bit of a mindset shift, I think, to think
Sara Gillis:about because as a photographer, you're like, well, I know when I took this.
Sara Gillis:I know who's in this picture.
Sara Gillis:How do I distinguish it for me, but also make it searchable and
Sara Gillis:make it good for Google as well?
Erin Ollila:So the easiest must have thing that you should do is to always
Erin Ollila:use hyphens in between the words.
Erin Ollila:Because if you have something that just says Providence, Rhode Island
Erin Ollila:wedding at the Biltmore with no hyphens, Google's looks at those like
Erin Ollila:combination of letters and they're like, what's this jibber jabber?
Erin Ollila:What?
Erin Ollila:No, thank you.
Erin Ollila:Remember, we have to humanize Google a little to be like, Dude, you have a
Erin Ollila:really hard job, like really hard job.
Erin Ollila:So if we make it easier and we as annoying as it is, but you just
Erin Ollila:get used to it, I think when you
Sara Gillis:Mm-hmm.
Erin Ollila:And think of photographers.
Erin Ollila:I mean let's come on.
Erin Ollila:You have all these renaming systems that can name all of your photos super quickly.
Erin Ollila:So no complaining there.
Erin Ollila:You fix the hyphens ones, but if you change it to Providence hyphen road
Erin Ollila:hyphen Island, hyphen Then Google sees it and they're like, okay, this is for
Erin Ollila:Providence, Rhode Island, the Biltmore.
Erin Ollila:Oh, done.
Erin Ollila:Sweet.
Erin Ollila:Okay.
Erin Ollila:That's where this location's about.
Erin Ollila:However, back in the day, it was very widely advised to use
Erin Ollila:keywords within your images.
Erin Ollila:I will not say that's necessarily a bad idea because you need to attract
Erin Ollila:people, you want them to find your stuff.
Erin Ollila:So if they're already searching for it, however, especially with
Erin Ollila:this new intro of AI search.
Erin Ollila:I wouldn't say Google's getting smarter, but I would say they're
Erin Ollila:getting stricter and the idea of especially longer phrases stuffed
Erin Ollila:in every image seems spammy to them.
Erin Ollila:So that I don't confuse you.
Erin Ollila:What you want to do is you want to have a relevant keyword like naming
Erin Ollila:system and you want to it short.
Erin Ollila:So for example, if the image is of a baby in a pumpkin,
Erin Ollila:Sorry, photographers, this is how creative I am, this is why I hire you guys.
Erin Ollila:But if it is a baby in a pumpkin for a holiday, first birthday
Erin Ollila:shoot or something like that, you'd probably name it like.
Erin Ollila:Baby in a pumpkin or something to that effect.
Erin Ollila:If there's a slew of similar images, you can keep it easy and be like, 1, 2, 3.
Erin Ollila:For the naming convention.
Erin Ollila:You could definitely use a location keyword or a venue.
Erin Ollila:Venue is very good for keywords like for that wedding Biltmore
Erin Ollila:Hotel Providence wedding, that could be your naming convention.
Erin Ollila:It's not too long, but don't try to force a key word.
Erin Ollila:In a naming convention if you don't have to.
Erin Ollila:What Google cares most about is that the image, like the
Erin Ollila:relevance part is in there.
Erin Ollila:So if it's not saying First birthday photography and it's a baby in a pumpkin.
Erin Ollila:because like, how does Google know that?
Erin Ollila:So I know that's more vague I think, than anyone listening is hoping for.
Erin Ollila:sometimes with SEO like I know even myself, it's like, can't
Erin Ollila:you just make this easier?
Erin Ollila:What the heck?
Erin Ollila:Can't, if it's a key word, can't I just put the keyword where it goes?
Erin Ollila:But unfortunately what's happened in the past is too much junk
Erin Ollila:content has been created and now is.
Erin Ollila:Especially with ai, massive amount of junk content is being created.
Erin Ollila:So it's not just that you are trying to do it the right way,
Erin Ollila:it's, you're competing against all these people doing it the wrong way.
Erin Ollila:So when in doubt, think of your naming conventions as how can I showcase what's
Erin Ollila:in the image and possibly do a keyword but care more about that relevance
Erin Ollila:and that short factor than you care about the actual keyword in the images.
Sara Gillis:I often remind my clients to think about their kids too.
Sara Gillis:I work with a lot of mamas and it's what would you tell
Sara Gillis:your kid this picture is of.
Sara Gillis:And baby in a pumpkin that fits right your child will know what that
Sara Gillis:is without even seeing the picture.
Sara Gillis:And so as a first gut response, go there, what will you tell
Sara Gillis:your child is in this picture?
Sara Gillis:And then let's take it up a notch.
Sara Gillis:Right?
Sara Gillis:Thinking a little bit more intentionally about what Google might like to
Sara Gillis:see and what keywords you might be able to utilize, especially if
Sara Gillis:it's location based like you said.
Erin Ollila:Yeah, and I mentioned the easy way out is doing it like baby in
Erin Ollila:a pumpkin one, baby in a pumpkin two.
Erin Ollila:But if you have that bandwidth, you could just have a few select titles.
Erin Ollila:Right?
Erin Ollila:So it's like you don't have to have them all, not, no one wants to retitle
Erin Ollila:every single image in a portfolio that would take a lot of time, but maybe you
Erin Ollila:create five different titling methods.
Erin Ollila:So it's baby in a Pumpkin is one and another one is like pumpkin
Erin Ollila:first birthday photography.
Erin Ollila:Or you can mix it up.
Erin Ollila:That's actually better for you.
Erin Ollila:Obviously it takes a little bit more time, but if you're just doing them in
Erin Ollila:tiny batches and then you know you're doing the one, two, threes and all that,
Erin Ollila:it's still better for your business.
Erin Ollila:So don't overthink it and don't stuff it, but to talk about
Erin Ollila:pictures for a second there.
Erin Ollila:I know we've been talking for a while, but this is really
Erin Ollila:important for photographers.
Erin Ollila:The size of your image will drastically make a difference on how Google ranks you.
Erin Ollila:Obviously we know the better resolution is the higher weighted images,
Erin Ollila:right, and the higher sized images.
Erin Ollila:But you want to have obviously as best resolution as you can, but the smallest
Erin Ollila:images as possible because the heavier the site, the longer it takes to load.
Erin Ollila:And now 2023 especially, and obviously 2024 but at this moment, Google
Erin Ollila:cares a lot about page feeded.
Erin Ollila:They really do not want to take a lot of time waiting on your site.
Erin Ollila:It's kind of like having them as that friend or that wing man again,
Erin Ollila:it's if they're waiting at your house to go out for a night of
Erin Ollila:like drinking and debauchery, they do not want to sit there forever.
Erin Ollila:They're going to be like, whatever.
Erin Ollila:Find your own ride.
Erin Ollila:See you later.
Erin Ollila:So, really, truly want to have smaller images.
Erin Ollila:With a lower weight on your site, and if you want to help yourself with
Erin Ollila:this keyword, even though I just said don't focus on it so much for the
Erin Ollila:titling, you do have the alt text.
Erin Ollila:Now I am a firm lecturer on the alt text is not for SEO.
Erin Ollila:The alt text is for accessibility so that people can understand what your images
Erin Ollila:are if they have to use a screen reader.
Erin Ollila:Does that mean you can't use it in an SEO effort of course you can
Erin Ollila:if you're doing it the right way.
Erin Ollila:So as an example of the baby in a pumpkin when it came to
Erin Ollila:the alt text, it's not a title.
Erin Ollila:So you have more room to write a description and you could write
Erin Ollila:this image is of a baby inside of a pumpkin to celebrate their
Erin Ollila:first birthday photography.
Erin Ollila:Now, depending on what the keyword is, maybe it's Let's just
Erin Ollila:say again, Massachusetts first birthday photography or something.
Erin Ollila:You could say that, right?
Erin Ollila:If that's going to help SEO wise, go for it.
Erin Ollila:Because the person using the screen reader is just going to, they want
Erin Ollila:to know what's in the picture.
Erin Ollila:So if you add a location in there, no biggie, it's not hurting them.
Erin Ollila:However, if you only titled it like Massachusetts, Baby photography, then
Erin Ollila:what you're really doing is you're not being, you're being anti-access.
Erin Ollila:I don't know if that's the ableist, maybe because it is not for you to benefit
Erin Ollila:your business to use the alt text, but if you can do it in a way that serves
Erin Ollila:people who use the alt text and still do it for SEO, more power to you, go for it.
Erin Ollila:There's nothing wrong with that.
Sara Gillis:I love that you brought up image size.
Sara Gillis:I think that's huge.
Sara Gillis:And honestly, with alt text, even being available to put in on
Sara Gillis:Instagram, like it is important to think about accessibility and.
Sara Gillis:I think you're right.
Sara Gillis:If you can optimize it, great, but that's not the purpose.
Sara Gillis:And being intentional about the way that you utilize each piece that
Sara Gillis:you're able to, when it comes to naming conventions of images, but also
Sara Gillis:that alt text is really important.
Erin Ollila:I just did an episode on my podcast with Erin Perkins from
Erin Ollila:Maybely, and she had quoted, I don't remember the exact amount, so I would,
Erin Ollila:I'd butcher it if I tried, but she quoted the average consumer spend for
Erin Ollila:people in the disability community.
Erin Ollila:And it's like the point of the conversation was, let's just say
Erin Ollila:it was like $49 billion a year do you not want some of that money?
Erin Ollila:You know what I mean?
Erin Ollila:They're your neighbors, they're your friends.
Erin Ollila:They're just like you.
Erin Ollila:So if you are doing the best effort to make sure that you are making, especially
Erin Ollila:photography, because it's all image-based, making your images accessible to the
Erin Ollila:consumers in your area that may have different hearing experiences or site
Erin Ollila:experiences than you and you're doing that they're going to be appreciative.
Erin Ollila:because she was saying, she can't tell you how many times she goes to
Erin Ollila:a service-based provider's website.
Erin Ollila:And if she can't read it, well why the heck would she even try to figure out.
Erin Ollila:What it was so that she could give them money.
Erin Ollila:It's not her responsibility to do that.
Erin Ollila:So if that's the case and your local competitors are not doing things to
Erin Ollila:make their websites more accessible, and you are bringing a larger group
Erin Ollila:of consumers into your business and you're being a better human.
Erin Ollila:So definitely, like I always tell people.
Erin Ollila:It's so easy to forget your meta descriptions and to forget your alt text
Erin Ollila:and even your naming conventions because it's oh, I have to write another blog.
Erin Ollila:Oh, I have to do another Oh my gosh, what is the word?
Erin Ollila:Like when you're trying to capture like the images of talk about the
Erin Ollila:venue or the wedding specifically.
Erin Ollila:Right here, I have to showcase this client.
Erin Ollila:I just wrote all of these things.
Erin Ollila:I just edited all of these images.
Erin Ollila:Like I'm not making fun of you.
Erin Ollila:I do this myself in my business where it's like I write my show
Erin Ollila:notes and I'm like, eh, that's okay.
Erin Ollila:I'll do my alt text tomorrow.
Erin Ollila:No, don't do that.
Erin Ollila:Don't do that.
Erin Ollila:My friends, like this is it's like.
Erin Ollila:If you want to give Google a piece of gold or a penny, like a penny is not
Erin Ollila:optimizing these things, but you better believe you're going to turn their head.
Erin Ollila:If you're like, would you like this piece of gold?
Erin Ollila:Google?
Erin Ollila:Anyone offers me gold?
Erin Ollila:I'd be like, oh, okay.
Erin Ollila:That's exciting.
Erin Ollila:I didn't expect that today.
Erin Ollila:So if you do the extra effort, and yes, it is effort, but if you do
Erin Ollila:that extra effort, You're totally going to get the benefit yourself.
Erin Ollila:We started this conversation with a a, like, it takes a long time
Erin Ollila:thing and I think, again, we're all so conditioned to want immediate
Erin Ollila:results and we want to take the less.
Erin Ollila:Less effort that we can take to get those results.
Erin Ollila:But if we do recognize sometimes the more effort brings the longer lasting
Erin Ollila:result, it's as simple as okay, sure.
Erin Ollila:I'll write the 150 character meta description, which is like a sentence.
Erin Ollila:Sure.
Erin Ollila:I'll write a less than a sentence al text that will.
Erin Ollila:A hundred percent serve you way more than doing tiny like social
Erin Ollila:media updates or tiny little things in your business that you only get
Erin Ollila:that little gold star quickly for.
Erin Ollila:And social media's good.
Erin Ollila:And I'm not picking on anyone in social, but my point is SEO's better.
Erin Ollila:So
Sara Gillis:Love it.
Sara Gillis:I
Erin Ollila:draw the line in the sand.
Sara Gillis:I love it.
Sara Gillis:I love it.
Sara Gillis:I think that's so key.
Sara Gillis:It's really important to spend your time where it's going to really
Sara Gillis:benefit you and your business.
Sara Gillis:And that's, frankly just, it's on SEO, it's on your website, so I love that.
Sara Gillis:I would love to speak a little bit more about results and think about
Sara Gillis:your clients and what getting results from SEO work looks like for them.
Sara Gillis:Tell me some wins.
Erin Ollila:No, I'm so glad you said this.
Erin Ollila:So, It is tough to get wins immediately on SEO.
Erin Ollila:Why?
Erin Ollila:Because it's a long time effort.
Erin Ollila:I think the story I told earlier is a really good one, and the idea of Here's
Erin Ollila:this throwaway blog that company did.
Erin Ollila:Just literally typing up why they made their product, what the product does,
Erin Ollila:who would benefit from the product, and then not seeing any results until it made
Erin Ollila:their business like a crap ton of money.
Erin Ollila:But for my clients in specific, I think that.
Erin Ollila:The best results that they have.
Erin Ollila:I could give you flashy numbers here.
Erin Ollila:I tend to be an anti flashy numbers person because I think, again, it's so
Erin Ollila:individually based, but I think the best results they've had are a few things.
Erin Ollila:Very particularly
Erin Ollila:one.
Erin Ollila:Easier to convert clients because they've done all the hard work
Erin Ollila:and the clients, like I said, they feel comfortable to work with them.
Erin Ollila:I always have my clients come back to me and be like, you'll never believe this.
Erin Ollila:I haven't done sales calls and whatever.
Erin Ollila:Right.
Erin Ollila:A certain period of time.
Erin Ollila:Like people have just signing my contracts is this normal?
Erin Ollila:And I'm like, I mean, Yeah, maybe, right?
Erin Ollila:But it's that excitement that they're working with these people who
Erin Ollila:are confident to work with them.
Erin Ollila:They don't have to prove themself anymore.
Erin Ollila:The other thing that I think is for me personally, I would like this
Erin Ollila:the best is that they have better.
Erin Ollila:Clients.
Erin Ollila:So because those clients are already prepped and already feel
Erin Ollila:a level of confidence, they're working with people they like to
Sara Gillis:Mm-hmm.
Erin Ollila:So they enjoy that aspect of doing the work more because they
Erin Ollila:have better, more qualified clients because the people who found them
Erin Ollila:through search we're targeted, we're looking for them in their business.
Erin Ollila:So I guess I like those wins better.
Erin Ollila:I mean, there are some big ones of like, One of my clients is um, hill Science
Erin Ollila:Diet, and I searched this recently and I think like one of the articles I had
Erin Ollila:written was found 70,000 times a month.
Erin Ollila:And I'm like, okay, well that's a pretty big win one, right?
Erin Ollila:Imagine and like granted, they're a big brand, they don't need my help.
Erin Ollila:But the point is imagine like 70,000 people came to your website.
Erin Ollila:Because they were looking for the answer that technically your
Erin Ollila:product could have given them.
Erin Ollila:So it was this article had something to do with can my dog eat whatever, right?
Erin Ollila:Like carrots or whatever.
Erin Ollila:Now, granted, Hill Science Diet, they're not selling carrots on their website
Erin Ollila:but you are a consumer who cares a lot about your animal and you want to make
Erin Ollila:sure that they have nutritious food.
Erin Ollila:Well, Hills Science Diet sells nutritious food.
Erin Ollila:So the amount of eyes that you have, for some of my clients, it's literally, and
Erin Ollila:this sounds, every time I say this, people like, well, that doesn't sound impressive.
Erin Ollila:Sometimes it's 10 more visits a month.
Erin Ollila:That does.
Erin Ollila:Everything for their business.
Erin Ollila:And now photographers, your service-based business, unless you're
Erin Ollila:doing like headshots, like at a mall where you can zoom people in and
Erin Ollila:out of, in front of you, and serve those thousand people in a day.
Erin Ollila:You can't serve 70,000 people.
Erin Ollila:But imagine 10 more people come to your website, even if just one
Erin Ollila:of them booked a large package that could be business changing.
Erin Ollila:So, Regarding client wins, I think the best wins, maybe my personal perspective,
Erin Ollila:are the ones that feel really good to them or feel exciting that they've made
Erin Ollila:these changes that have presented them better in their business, more so than
Erin Ollila:the amount of clicks that they've had.
Sara Gillis:Yeah, absolutely.
Sara Gillis:I think it's bigger than the numbers, right?
Sara Gillis:And I think the numbers can, like you said, be really subjective.
Sara Gillis:But I would love to talk to you a little bit about what
Sara Gillis:kind of results you've seen.
Sara Gillis:How does SEO work for you personally in your business, and how has SEO
Sara Gillis:helped you to just feel more confident in showing up as you are as yourself?
Erin Ollila:Yeah, that's a great question.
Erin Ollila:I think I can look at this two different ways.
Erin Ollila:I say I've been in business for over seven years now, but a good majority
Erin Ollila:of that time I've fallen under the cobblers kids have no shoes syndrome
Erin Ollila:of just not working on my own business.
Erin Ollila:And I can say that because I am a.
Erin Ollila:Super transparent person and I care about, being honest and about these things.
Erin Ollila:But what I also know is at some point when I decided that, that had to
Erin Ollila:change and I was like, oh my gosh, Erin you're embarrassing yourself.
Erin Ollila:You write websites and your website's not what you would ever want it to be.
Erin Ollila:At some point, once I made that change.
Erin Ollila:What I loved about having the background in SEO and knowing how to do things is
Erin Ollila:I wasn't afraid to take bigger risks than I might've even suggested, go
Erin Ollila:for keywords that are harder to rank.
Erin Ollila:And then again, I like gold stars.
Erin Ollila:So seeing my efforts pay off over time was like, oh cool.
Erin Ollila:And if anything, Encourage me to do a little bit more
Erin Ollila:strategic campaign like things.
Erin Ollila:Now, why it's so exciting for me is not even necessarily the SEObenefit
Erin Ollila:I get as a human, but because I learn new things that I didn't know from
Erin Ollila:my clients that like right now, I'm currently obsessed with frequently asked
Erin Ollila:question pages or sections because.
Erin Ollila:You can write as much as you'd like in that nested comment and Google reads every
Erin Ollila:word, but it doesn't mess up your page.
Erin Ollila:Like it's not blocks of texts that are just like, people have to like zoom over
Erin Ollila:if they're interested in the question and they want to read the answer.
Erin Ollila:That's a huge SEO benefit.
Erin Ollila:So I feel like how it's benefited me is that I've been able to play more and
Erin Ollila:learn more and reap the benefits, not just for myself, but for other people.
Erin Ollila:And with hills sometimes I go out and like my kids' soccer games or
Erin Ollila:dance or friends on the internet that I don't know in real life.
Erin Ollila:And they'll be like, I was searching for Leptos sclerosis and dogs then
Erin Ollila:I got to, the bottom of the article.
Erin Ollila:I think the funniest one was when my own.
Erin Ollila:Father was like I was, I read this really good article on that and then I got
Erin Ollila:to the bottom and your face was on it.
Erin Ollila:yes, it's because I've written about dogs for a really long time.
Erin Ollila:Dad.
Sara Gillis:Oh, that's so sweet.
Sara Gillis:I love that so much.
Sara Gillis:That's a great story.
Sara Gillis:Oh, well thank you so, so much for being here.
Sara Gillis:I am super excited to share that Erin has a checklist for us.
Sara Gillis:Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Erin Ollila:Sure it's a really simple guide that I think I like to
Erin Ollila:point out that it's simple because it will, it won't feel so overwhelming.
Erin Ollila:Everything about SEO just feels overwhelming when
Erin Ollila:you're getting used to it.
Erin Ollila:So what it does is it's truly a checklist.
Erin Ollila:So that way when you write any page or any post on your site, you can
Erin Ollila:look at it and be like, did I do this?
Erin Ollila:Okay, did I do that?
Erin Ollila:Okay.
Erin Ollila:And just work through the checklist so you're not forgetting things like
Erin Ollila:your alt text or titling your images.
Erin Ollila:Yes, I know photographers do think of naming conventions, but with the amount
Erin Ollila:of images you have, sometimes it's so easy to overlook that when you're uploading.
Erin Ollila:So just a checklist that you can print out, put on the side of
Erin Ollila:your computer and a little tiny.
Erin Ollila:Thing, or you can use it as a, actual checkbox on the internet thing to
Erin Ollila:get you making sure you're doing all those little tiny best practices.
Sara Gillis:I love that and I'm going to have that link
Sara Gillis:for you guys in the show notes.
Sara Gillis:Thank you so much for being here.
Sara Gillis:This was such a fun conversation.
Erin Ollila:you for having me.
Erin Ollila:I mean, I talked a lot.
Erin Ollila:I'm a little sorry for that, but I, everything is just so important and I
Erin Ollila:just, I really want to make sure that if you are thinking about doing it yourself,
Erin Ollila:even if it's like a trial before you hire someone else, you can put in the
Erin Ollila:effort and just trust in the process.
Sara Gillis:I love that as always.
Sara Gillis:Thanks for listening everybody, and until next time, this is your
Sara Gillis:copywriter on call signing off.
Sara Gillis:Thanks for listening to The Copywriter On Call podcast.
Sara Gillis:If this episode has you feeling all sorts of inspired to show up as yourself online,
Sara Gillis:click that subscribe button so you don't miss my stories or practical advice to
Sara Gillis:help you express your quirky, vulnerable, and authentic self online chat soon.
