Horror fanatic and premier Nashville standup comedian Marianna Brown joins Seth and Kyle to discuss "The Shining," a film that holds a top 10 spot for Kyle. The conversation dives deep into the complexities of Stanley Kubrick's adaptation of Stephen King's novel, highlighting the stark differences between the two versions and the director's unique vision. Marianna, a self-proclaimed Kubrick superfan, shares her insights on the film's psychological horror elements, the iconic performances, and the meticulous craftsmanship that defines Kubrick’s work. The episode also examines the infamous tension between King and Kubrick, exploring how that dynamic influenced the film's legacy. With lively banter and contrasting opinions on the performances, especially that of Shelley Duvall, this discussion offers a captivating look at why "The Shining" remains a pivotal piece of cinema in the horror genre.

The podcast delves into the psychological horror classic, The Shining, with a riveting discussion led by horror fanatic and Nashville standup comedian Marianna Brown. The episode explores Marianna's deep connection to Stanley Kubrick's work, particularly her admiration for his meticulous attention to detail and innovative filmmaking techniques. As the conversation unfolds, listeners are treated to insights about the film's iconic imagery, such as the haunting hedges of the Overlook Hotel and the chilling performances of Jack Nicholson and Shelley Duvall. The hosts dissect the contrasting interpretations of the film, weighing Stephen King's criticism against Kubrick's artistic vision, and reflect on how the film's ambiguity contributes to its lasting impact on the horror genre. With a mix of humor and critical analysis, the episode offers a comprehensive look at The Shining, emphasizing its significance not just as a horror film, but as a masterclass in filmmaking that continues to resonate with audiences today.

Takeaways:

• The podcast dives deep into the contentious relationship between Stephen King and Stanley Kubrick, exploring how this dynamic influenced the adaptation of The Shining.
• Seth and Mariana discuss the unique qualities of Kubrick's filmmaking style, emphasizing his meticulous attention to detail and how it contributes to the film's horror elements.
• The conversation highlights Shelley Duvall's performance, with Mariana expressing her mixed feelings about Duvall's portrayal of Wendy Torrance compared to Jack Nicholson's iconic role.
• Listeners learn about the technical innovations behind The Shining, such as the use of the Steadicam, which significantly impacted the film's visual storytelling.
• The episode includes a discussion on the ambiguity of horror films, particularly The Shining, and how it blurs the lines between psychological and supernatural horror.
• Seth and Mariana reflect on the impact of Kubrick's choices in cinematography and sound design, which play a critical role in establishing the film's unsettling atmosphere.

Foreign. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast, back with Seth and Mariana. How we doing, you two? How we doing?

Good.

So glad to see you. We're entering the holiday season.

Yeah.

We're celebrating with the Shining.

Getting cozy.

Getting cozy.

My favorite Christmas movie.

Yes. It's got snow in it.

I mean, snow lights.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm not into the seasonal movies. People like, are you going to do any Christmas movies? I'm like, no.

The only one I do is the Night before with Seth Rogen and Anthony Mackie and Joseph Gordon Levitt, where they go to the big Christmas party. Yeah, that one's a great one. I love seeing Seth Rogen on mushrooms.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You like seeing Seth Rogen in any way?

I mean, kind of.

And ordering things from him.

Yeah.

Buying things from him. Your item came that you talked about in the last podcast.

I do have the car lighter now. It's quite nice. Thank you, House plant. Be a sponsor. Yeah.

We should hit him up because we've given a lot of free marketing.

We have.

Yeah. Well, I'm so stoked. And you. You told me that you're a big Kubrick fan, so tell me about your connection with Kubrick. Why is he so top five for you?

How do you connect with this stuff?

That's. The funny thing is, like, I.

So I guess it's just like, I had this big appreciation for just how he does things.

Yeah.

Very nice. I still haven't seen that one. That one. It's on my list, but I've got. I got a friend that I have to watch it with. Like, we've made a pact, so.

Yeah, it's brilliant. Yeah, it's brilliant.

My first introduction to the Shining was actually through 30 seconds to Mars music video for the Killer, where they. They basically, like, did a version of the Shining along with it. Jared Leto is, like, yelling at another version of himself. It's a good time.

Wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

You didn't know this is a thing.

No.

Oh, yeah. It's a beautiful music.

I dropped off of music videos a long time ago.

Popular music video I Remember, like, enjoying was the thriller. Yeah. I'm an old man. No, I think it was back Loser. That's the last popular music video I remember supporting in any way. Carson Daly.

There you go.

Well, I'm stoked to do the Shining. This is a top 10 movie for me.

Okay.

And also I think the one thing I enjoy more than the movie itself is the beef between Stephen King and Stanley Kubrick. I did an old podcast, an hour long podcast detailing every element of this. It can go back to refer to.

I'll do a watered down version here, but, you know, the Shining was autobiographical for Stephen King in a lot of ways. Jack Torrance in the book is this alcoholic struggling. He's a rage aholic in the book.

Yeah.

And he's actually, in some ways, even though he has these ailments, he's. He does a.

He goes a long way to demonstrate Jack Torrance as a sympathetic figure, someone who's, you know, who might be on a path to redemption, which is totally different than Jack Nicholson's portrayal. But because this is so autobiographical, Stephen King took it very personally what Kubrick did to the source material, you know, and Stephen.

And I agree with Stanley Kubrick. Listen, I read the book again for the podcast and I read it two times before. The bones are very interesting. The very interesting bones.

But Stephen King has. He likes to telegraph a lot of things and he has a lot of inconsistent character writing. Danny in the book is one of the most.

He's one of the worst written characters ever.

Okay.

Like, like, you can tell Stephen King's forcing a lot of things because, like, in one sentence, like, supposed to believe Danny is this, like, super smart kid.

Yeah.

In the book. And he's like. He's like, what are those things called? We have bad dreams at night. And Halloran's like, you mean nightmares. But then.

But then in another scene, Danny knows what epilepsy is and he's able to describe epilepsy, but he doesn't. He's a kid. He doesn't know what the word nightmare is. And so there's just. There's just all. And it's. It's for the sake of cheesy dialogue.

Yeah.

The first two books that, that King had written were Salem's Lot and Carrie. And those really caught a lot of popularity on screen. Those were slow. The Shining was the first book that was instantly popular for King.

And so that's when he became Stephen King, the author of the Shining, and he got a lot of popularity. We meet him at cocktail parties where he would drink everything because he had drinking a lot during this time.

A lot of blow.

Yeah, a lot of blow. A lot of pills. And he says a lot of NyQuil. Apparently. I didn't know. Maybe that was the night Gap.

Doesn't he say that? He doesn't remember writing Cujo.

That's right.

Yeah.

Thank you. This ad brought to you by nyquil.

Yes.

Cocaine. But, you know. And so when Kubrick cast Nicholson, he was like, what?

You know, it was because, you know, he had One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest already and it gave this. But even before the film came out, like, I guess we're just going to start crazy.

Yeah.

Because in the book, you know, he relates so much to Torrance as the sympathetic figure who has a humanity, and he feel like he took the soul out of it in a lot of ways with that. And also. And this was very common back in the day, authors would get bigger.

Would get bigger payouts when they sold their rights by getting the first right to write the screenplay.

Yeah.

Peter Benchley with Jaws did this, and Spielberg was nicer about it, but he. He kindly rejected it. Where Stanley Kubrick didn't just kindly reject it. He threw it away.

And he was interviewed about who is writing the film with, and he said, we're writing it with Diane Johnson. And he used the term a real American author. After throwing.

So from moment one, it was just fuck you.

Yeah. So much about this movie was. I think Stanley Kubrick was trying to.

And he did this to a lot of people, to Scatman Carruthers, to Shelley Duvall, to Stephen King was. He wanted to be the most intelligent.

Yeah, He.

He wanted to be the smartest person in every situation. And so many of these people in that he subjected to a lot of this stuff was based on his own personal struggles.

But he wanted King to know that he was smarter than he was. And so there are. There are all these little things. And then what happened was after the movie comes out and. And it comes. You know, it gets.

It was slow, but the Shining, eventually the film would get. You know, become an iconic film. And then all of a sudden, people referring to it as Stanley Kubrick's the Shining.

And so it's no longer Stephen King's hallmark. And a lot of the problem is that a lot of the Hallmark imagery that we. What do you associate with the Shining?

The elevator, the blood, the twins, the carpet. Yeah, The Carpet. So many of these things were. Kubrick create the maze. The maze.

It's funny because eventually King would go on in 97 to make a help make a straight for TV1. This was his redemption. He was going to make a true to the material. Four and a half hours on tv.

Geez.

There are. In the book, there are hedge maze animals. There's not a maze. They're hedge maze animals. And they come to life and they try to attack people.

In the book, he put it in the show with television budget cgi. Kubrick knew from the get go. He's like, this would never look good. No, never. And so they did the maze.

And honestly, I don't think it's even that cool of an idea for a book.

Yeah.

Like, that just sounds lame.

Yeah. Oh, it's so lame. It's one of the lamest parts of the book, you know, to close it out. What ended up happening is that King kind of.

I say it ruined his. It didn't ruin his career fully, but when it came to television rights and films, he became more of a control freak. He had to be on set.

He wanted to be always making sure that people were staying true to his material.

Yeah.

And so what ends up happening is that Stephen King cheese that happens. Gets put into these. These shows. It cheapens his own work. And it's all because of this.

This standoff that he had with Kubrick, you know, over the Shining. And so I do think it ended up impacting him negatively because he cheapened his own work for basically the rest of his career.

He wasn't involved in it. The remake, which I think is why it's pretty good.

Yeah. How involved was he with the TV version?

With it, he was very heavily involved.

It's actually pretty good because everyone tells me that that's like the most iconic one. I haven't seen it. I don't know if I want to see it.

It's pretty good. He was more of an advisor.

Okay.

He eventually, though, with the Langoliers. Tommyknockers.

What a name.

Yeah. Tommy Knockers. Yeah. He eventually would be. Be basically a faux producer.

Okay.

But anyway, that's the very short version. There's a lot of details in the story, but, yeah, I. I think it's an interesting beef. And yeah, this is a top 10 film for me. I think it's.

I mean, I don't even. I don't know what I could say about that. Hasn't been said, you know, fair.

There is a. There's quite a lot. Good. I'm sure we'll get to it later when we get to the scorecard. But I. There. There are some issues I do have with it.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, there are some. There are some glaring. Yeah, there are some things. But, you know, Kubrick's attention to detail, you know, and there.

There are a lot of ways to interpret Kubrick, how he operates. You know, you hear multiple stories like, Jack Nicholson loved working for Kubrick. He loved.

He loved doing 140 takes because he wanted to be driven to the point of insanity. Shelley Duvall was not a technical actor. She was a character actress. The same year that this came out, she portrayed Olive Oil in the Popeye movie.

Oh, yeah, that was. Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Those were her types of films.

Yeah.

This was like her first serious role, wasn't it?

It was, yeah. And, you know, and Kubrick pushed her to the brink. There's all these stories about Scatman Carruthers crying on set. There was a. The.

The record is still had or still held by this film. 148 takes for the ice cream scene with Danny and Halloran. Oh, that took 148 takes. And it kind of.

If you ask some people, Kubrick wanted to punish Carothers. He didn't think he was a talented actor. He was older.

Why cast him then?

Yeah, because. Because of Jack Nicholson. So they were going to recast. This is another crazy thing.

They were going to recast Halloin as a white actor, and he had an actor in mind. And then Jack Nicholson was the one that said, you need to hire Scatman. He's my friend. They were friends.

And so he was the one that got Carothers in there so much. He does. He's wonderful.

Yeah. I loved him. He's. He. He and Jack Nicholson, honestly, were the only two characters that I enjoyed watching.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting.

Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah. Like I said, when we get. When we get to that part, I've got plenty to say there.

It's gonna get feisty in here. You know, but there is so much about. You know, it's hard when you hear about how hard.

Because, you know, Shelley Duvall did eventually, you know, she's. She just died not too long ago, but she had mental struggles and later in life. And some people do pin it on Kubrick.

Yeah.

I mean, some people.

I mean, kind of like with Eyes Wide Shut, Kubrick is kind of blamed for ending Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise's relationship there.

Yeah.

So, I mean, he is definitely known for putting his actors through the ringer to get whatever Little thing he's looking for.

Yes. Yeah.

I hate how much it worked, though.

Yeah.

Seriously.

I mean, like, he had a point.

Yeah.

I kind of wish it didn't drive people completely insane.

Yeah.

But at the same time, I mean, Eyes Wide Shut's one of my favorite movies.

It's incredible. And I mean, even. Even Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman still talk very positively about that experience in that movie.

Yeah.

Well, I think that actually share shows you, like, how good of a relationship they actually had because, you know, how could you be in that good of terms if you hated the other person.

Exactly.

But that movie is just incredible. It doesn't get the. It doesn't get any of the credit it deserves, though, because seriously, people get so weird when it comes to nudity on screen.

Yeah.

They're just like, I don't know. This is art, I guess.

I. I got to see it on 35 millimeter at the Bell Court as part of the Nicole Kidman series that they did. And that was insane.

That's the first time I'd ever seen it too.

Oh, wow.

It was a beautiful way to see it on film, like, actually in a theater.

It's a beautiful film.

It was so good.

Yeah.

Well, I'm part of that, too, is because he passed before it was finalized.

Yeah.

And so there was a lot of, like, question about. Is this because the. Tom Cruise had a joke on the set of Eyes Wide Shuttle.

They would ask Kubrick or what it was like working with Kubrick, and he would joke that he was still editing the Shining.

Yeah.

Because he was. He was still editing even after it finally hit theaters. He was still making new edits of the Shining.

Yeah.

Yeah. He was a crazy person.

Yeah. Yeah.

We definitely need to do an episode about Eyes Wide Shut. There's.

Yeah, there's.

Oh, yeah.

There is a lot there.

Yeah.

Love that movie.

Yeah. The questions. Do you want to go on the questions?

Yeah.

Boom. What story could they have told Jack that would have convinced him not to take the job?

Probably that he would be very happy and he would love his wife.

You will have a great marriage.

Yeah. This might fix things.

I mean, I tell you to come over to my house. I'm having. I'm making bagels. You guys like bagels? Yeah, I'm making bagels. We're having a bagel party. You love bagel parties. I love bagel.

Part problem, though. I had to stab 40 people to get the ingredients for these, and their body parts are under my house.

Yeah.

Want to come over still? You still good?

You Know, I don't know that that actually sounds like a decent time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm just.

The body parts haven't started to smell yet. So.

Yeah, I've seen this over a hundred times, and this is the first time I thought, what story could he have told Torrance that would have maybe persuaded him not to go hacked up his daughters? I'm just like.

He's just like, oh, cool. Okay.

Well, you'll find that I'm real.

Yeah.

I'm a solid guy now.

At the same time, I do wonder so. Because this was. This is the second time I've seen the movie.

And thinking back on it the first time I saw it, and this time, my question now is, is this a gigantic. Like a gigantic ghost story? Is this a whole situation where Jack Nicholson was always a ghost?

Or did he take the family there and then the ghost tried to get them to join them?

Yeah.

Like this is.

Or did he go back in time and he's trapped in the photograph at the end of the movie completely just as a later on?

Yeah.

I don't know. That's the thing. I don't know, because how would you have a wife and a child if you were a ghost? That's the part I don't understand. But that's also.

These are the things that make it, like, a great. I mean, it is a horror movie, but it's like. It's almost science fiction too.

Exactly.

None of the. None of the details add up. And that's, like, specifically, the part that I like the most is that it's like, is he even real?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is the main character alive?

Yeah. Is this really happening?

Yeah. Or is Shelly Duvall just completely made up the whole time?

Yeah. Yeah.

Or are they. Are they all him?

Yeah.

Is it all in his head? He went there by himself, but he thought he had a family.

Well, what if he's a split personality and then Shelley Duvall's part of him and his child's part of him, but they're not even real. And he's just talking to everybody the whole time. Because he's talking. I mean, maybe they didn't even show it.

Yeah.

Yeah. There are a ton of interpretations in the book. It's very clear from the very beginning that it's mystical that it's ghosts, that it's.

Kubrick and Diane Johnson did. They wanted ambiguity.

Okay.

And so up until a certain point, this movie is filmed chronologically, which is weird. I always thought that that was so rare, and I think it still is rare. But we have Covered. So many movies like Fury Road is done chronologically.

Well. So here's. Here's what I have noticed. A lot of movies will tend to go location based.

So if they have a scene at the beginning, the middle and the end of the movie in one location, they will film all of those over that two, two, three weeks. Because they're in the same location, they don't have to leave and come back.

So that's a lot of times why things aren't shot chronologically is just based on where they are.

When you have a movie like Fury Road, where 90% of it takes place in the desert, and then you have a movie like the Shining where 90% of it takes place in or around this hotel, it's easier to kind of go in order because you're in the location the whole time.

Yeah. Drive was another one that was done chronological. It's all in la, I guess.

Yeah. But.

But anyway, Diane Johnson and Stanley Kubrick, they wanted it to be ambiguous. Like, is this psychological? Is this cabin fever? Are these hallucinations? Or is it a ghost story?

But there is one scene that forced them to confess that, yes, there is a ghostly element. And that was the one where. Where Grady unlocks the door.

Yeah.

Because that's the one time where there's an actual interaction. And that is something they kind of had to fess up to, is that they were. And I think they.

I still think they do a great job with the ambiguity, but that one scene does kind of force the issue.

Yeah.

That there is a supernatural element involved.

Yeah.

But, you know, as to whether, you know, the. I think the most common agreement. I'm not saying this is what I think or. Or anything like that, but that.

That Torrance was absorbed into the hotel and that's how they were able to put him in. In the photo. Like he was absorbed into it.

Yeah.

That's where my. My idea of, like, clearly this is a ghost story. And like, I wonder if Scatman Carruthers character was like, in on the whole thing.

He knows that every single caretaker has died every year and continues to join these photos. Like it almost. But then he, like, connected with the kid and that's where he was like, ah, maybe I shouldn't, like, let them just die.

Yeah.

So I. That. That's watching it again. That's where all of those kind of came for me, where I was like, ah, I feel like this is a.

Almost like the ghosts are hunting people or like a sacrifice to the ghosts so that in the summer this place can stay Open.

Yeah. And. And yeah, there's definitely this idea, too, that, like. That there's possible reincarnation too.

Yeah.

That Nicholson's a reincarnation of. Of a caretaker and that he's drawn back to the hotel to fulfill its purpose.

Yeah.

And also you have to look at, like, another big side of this is who shines and who doesn't. Like, a lot of people don't think Torrance shines, that Jack can shine, but a lot of people think he actually does and that drinking curtails it.

And the reason the hotel wanted to get him drunk is so that he could lose his ability to shine.

That makes sense.

Yeah. And so there's that philosophy, too, that's out there. It's interesting. Like you said, you can go down the rabbit hole.

What if it's just a gigantic withdrawal story and it's basically saying, no, you should keep drinking.

Yeah. If you don't want to kill your family.

Yeah.

Keep up the drinking. In the book is in the book. It's worse, man. He actually, like. Not only does he, like, break Danny's arm, but he beats the. Out of a student.

He's a professional professor.

Oh.

And this whole thing is a getaway.

Like his friend that used to be an old drinking buddy, I guess they go through AA together and he's a stakeholder in the Overlook, and he sends him away to write a play to help him get back in the good graces of academia so he can come back and be a professor again. So it's a whole play. You know, It's a whole thing.

It is interesting to me that Kubrick kind of de. Violenced this story.

Yeah.

Because it's like, that's the one thing I keep noticing about whatever I hear about Stephen King novels for the most part. I know there's some. Some exceptions, but, like, he's always very hyper violent with the stories that he writes.

And it seems like filmmakers are constantly having to tone his shit down.

Yeah, it. It has so many things.

Yeah.

In fact, I was really concerned. I don't know if you know this, but before. Who. Who directed it? I'm trying to remember the name of the director. Which one of the new. The remakes.

The it remakes.

Oh, I don't remember the guy's name.

Well, before, you know who. The first person and he got deep into it was Cary Fukunaga.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

That could have been really cool.

Yeah. Except he wanted to do everything, kid orgy and all.

And they started meeting the parents of the child actors and they Started asking questions about it. And that's when he just. They decided they weren't going to go with him.

Andy Muschietti.

Yeah, that's right. But yeah, and it is insane. Like, it's crazy to watch that movie and think, this is a. That's a quarter.

Yeah.

That's an eighth.

Yeah.

There is some stuff. There is a very visual. Like, I won't get into it here, but yeah, you're right. Yeah. And. And. And not just D violence, but de cheese.

Like, you gotta get. It's like a plug in for pro tools. You gotta get the de cheesing going on. And he just. He telekinesis. Like, I'm surprised Cujo didn't have telekinesis.

It's like when he runs out of ideas, it's like, let's get tell. Let's get some telepathy.

Yeah, yeah.

Make somebody magic.

Yeah.

I feel like it's easier to write cheesy sounding dialogue because when you're reading it, it doesn't register as cheesy. But then the moment you hear someone speak, it is when you're like, oh, that sounds weird.

Like, I was in a play right after college and there was one line in the whole script that I kept fighting the writer over because it read grammatically correct, but it was such a mouthful that I would jumble over it every single time. When I said it out loud, I'm like. Because no one would actually say this out loud. There's a very different way they would say it.

So, yeah, I feel like it's easier to write than things that kind of sound a little off when you speak them.

That's why I'm glad there's so minimal, like, dialogue throughout the movie too. I think that adds to it.

And that's the thing I like the most about Kubrick is it's a lot about the visuals and it's just a lot about just putting you in the moment and just drawing you in. That's my favorite part about movies in general.

Same.

All of his movies are hypnotic.

Yeah, yeah. Good.

Then it's not the sequel.

But it was.

So.

Okay.

Okay.

And then. But the thing is, is like, they're all great books. They could have all been great movies, but it just. Man, the second director just really ruined it.

I don't remember who it was. It might not be a bad director. It could have been a production issue. I think the reason Stanley Kubrick was such a. Like a.

Such a dick on set is like, it got the movie made correctly.

Yeah.

And I hate that about directors. It seems like they have to be really, really like the. The opposite of a people pleaser to get anything made.

Right.

I mean, that's kind of the thing. Like, that's.

There's a reason Marvel movies started so good and then eventually became just a very bland, kind of formulaic thing to watch is because up until the second Avengers movie, Marvel just kind of let directors do their thing. They would hire directors that had a very specific style.

Kenneth Branagh for Thor, Jon Favreau for the Iron man movies, and they would let them just do their thing. And then once things started going really well, Kevin Feige got way more involved with how the movie was supposed to look.

And all the directors were basically just there to say action. Like, they weren't there to direct the film.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's. Let directors do their thing. Like they have a vision on purpose. That's why they kind of got rid of Edgar Wright on Ant Man.

Like, you can see the fingerprints of Edgar Wright in that movie. But for whatever reason, they hired a very stylized director to not let him do his style.

Right.

I think it's awful.

Yeah.

I hate Marvel movies.

Yeah.

I loved Ant man, the first one.

Yeah.

I mean, like, that's the closest to.

Edgar Wright's vision it ever got.

There you go. I mean, I'm just like, you can sometimes hire some of the right people, but, man, if it's the. The directors, just like a yes man.

Yeah.

Or just too into production, it's just doesn't turn out good.

Right.

Let artists. Art.

Yeah. It might have mass appeal, but, you know.

Well, we're going to do a whole thing. Yeah. We're going to do a side pod on this. But the whole auteur. Like. Like, who are the auteurs?

Yeah.

You know, and who those people are. It's a very interesting discussion.

Yeah, definitely.

And whether or not you like Kubrick, I mean, he invent. I mean, he literally invented camera lenses.

Yeah.

Like, some of the lenses that became popular, he invented for this movie.

Yeah.

I mean, did you see he would build train tracks like that didn't exist before him so that he could do those. You know, when he's, like, following Danny on the.

Oh, the dolly tracks.

Yeah, the dolly tracks. Like, that really wasn't necessarily. It might have been a thing, but.

He made it like it existed in a very finite place because you would have a dolly moving just from here to here. But, no, he utilized it in such a way that no one had ever done that before. Same with using the steady cam, because I think we talked about this.

The steady cam was technically invented for Rocky for that scene of him running up the stairs. And then it just exploded in popularity once people realized what you could do a lot because of what Stanley Kubrick did with Shining.

Yeah, yeah.

He did so much with so little, like. And then. I'm sorry, I'm jumping in again.

I love it.

They were like, we built to make. Make that pen float. They, like, built a frame, like a picture frame, and then stuck the pen to it and then went like this.

Yeah.

And then they, like, built all the models. And I'm like, this is why I hate when people over, like, use technology to fix things.

Because I'm like, you could just do it with the stuff and use a prop stylist that knows what they're doing, and this would look so much better.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like that scene in Inception where they're in the hotel bar and it kind of all goes a little off kilter.

If they had just animated all the glasses moving and all the water moving. Yeah. That would have looked like shit.

But the fact that he was like, no, we're going to build this set 10ft up on a lever that's going to lean it over, and everyone's just going to act like it's normal. This is what's going to make it look good. Doing it actually in camera.

Yeah, that fight scene where Joseph Gordon Levitz, like, keeps turning over and keeps turning over. I was like, they really did that? Oh, yeah.

100. They went back to that whole Danny K scene of him dancing on the walls in this. Or I guess Fred Astaire. That's.

Yeah.

Dancing on the walls and ceiling. They went back to that technology to make that work.

And it works great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love how he's like, let's just flip the 18 wheeler and then. That's better. Yeah. Than, like, making it in a computer.

You know what they say. You know that what they say you always regret not working out, but you never regret working out.

Yeah.

That's how. That's how I feel about cgi, because that.

That anytime you use whatever was the most, like, pertinent, like, innovative visual technology at the time effect, cgi, you like, even Terminator, which. I worship that film. But every time it gets to the claymation, I'm like. It's just. You know. But so. But when you go practical and do it like that, that.

If you do it well.

Yeah.

It's timeless.

Exactly.

The elevator scene.

Yeah.

That's 3,500 gallons of what was called Kensington Gore.

Yeah.

And that's the good stuff.

Yeah, that's. It was so good.

It wasn't water. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't dye. It wasn't water. And they literally pumped it out. And that was the only scene in the movie that took two takes.

They got that in two tastes. They couldn't get Dick Halloran talking to a boy over ice cream in less than 100 takes. But we're gonna do 3, 500 gallons of Kensington Gore.

It's like, just give us two of that one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Probably all they had.

Yeah. They could afford because that stuff's expensive.

Oh, yeah. I mean, there's so many times I've seen directors be like, we had to get that in one take. Not. Not that we wanted to. We knew we had to.

Like, when in Inception, when the building explodes, they literally set up 20 cameras.

Yeah.

Because they were like, we got one chance of this. We've got to take everything. And they did it practically, and it looked amazing.

And Nolan does not like multicam now, and so for him to do that is wild.

Yeah.

Is it just me, or does Jack Torrance not lift a finger to help clean this bitch?

From your mouth to God's ears. Seriously, as a wife, I felt so much for Shelley Duvall because that is a big hotel.

Honestly, I would have just stayed in the Colorado Room the whole time, though.

Yes.

I would have just, like, slept on.

The ground and smoked cigars in there.

Yeah. Oh, I would have ruined that place. It would have smelled like weed. I would have just been doing mushrooms with my kid.

It's a good thing I'm not a parent.

Empty Dorito bags everywhere.

Yeah.

It's like, wow.

All the.

All the calumet baking powders just, like.

All over the ground.

Just baking in the kitchen.

Yeah. He ain't Doing shit. And it really, it's really interesting because there's kind of an argument over what.

What Shelley Duvall, what Wendy represents as a. As a feminine force in this. Because in the book, Wendy's a very strong character. And also he does a lot like. He, you know, it's. It's. Spoiler alert.

Don't blame me for spoiling it. But it's the. But he did it. He. He had to empty the boiler four times a day like Torrance. And he had to like clean wasp nests off the roof.

Like there's. He's working non stop in the book.

Huh.

But in this and, and a lot of it is reflected. And some people think, and this has been written that Wendy's the most misogynistic female character ever written. And. And some.

I've heard people comment. I listened to some other podcasts and read some material people. Well, this was the 70s wife is like. Well, that wasn't really the 70s wife.

This kind of. More the 40s, 40s, 50s, 50s wife. I think in the 70s, this is where this was. People were rejecting this kind of female character.

I mean, it's definitely the beginning of that, but it was still a pretty common trope.

Yeah. And you know, Kubrick. So there's a short story I didn't get to tell from the whole King arc.

But, you know, Kubrick was mad Barry Lyndon because he wanted to make Napoleon with Jack Nicholson. That was going to be his big thing. But they even built the sets. They got two years in and then they lost money and couldn't make it.

But that was his thing he wanted to do is interesting. And Jack Nicholson was going to play Napoleon, but. And he was angry. And so he was like a. He basically, for a couple years after was domesticated.

He was like doing house chores and. And he was very angry about how he couldn't do Napoleon. Then Barry Lyndon failed, which was his. His timepiece.

Yeah.

Which I like Barry Lyndon, but it did not do well. It made no money. And so he was angry and he was like doing chores. And some people think.

And again, you have to like, this is just casting dispersions. But he cast Shelley Duvall because he wanted to hire somebody that he could abuse and so that's the whole. And so. But, man, more so than in the book.

She plays into that, like, abused housewife. It's sad.

Yeah. I mean. Yeah, it was sad to watch.

She is the perfect choice, too. This is another thing where I'm like, stanley Cooper's a genius. He's also really abusive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

As a lot of great artists have been over time. And, I mean, man, we just didn't have TV and movies and the way we do now back in the day.

Yeah.

But I would. One, I would love to hear how Hitchcock was, you know.

Yeah.

A little bit horrific.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

But again, I'll watch all of his movies again.

Yeah.

And I won't do that with a lot.

Did you watch the. The Hitchcock movie with Anthony Hopkins as him?

I don't think I did.

It's really. It's definitely worth.

Hopkins would be awesome.

Yeah, he's awesome.

It was fantastic.

Wow.

Yeah.

I'm gonna add that to my list.

I think it was him. And Helen Mirren played his wife.

I love Helen Mirin.

Stand by. Keep talking. I'll figure it out.

Yeah, you. The only thing I take offense to that is, is that people act like Shelley Duvall had no agency. In a lot of interviews, she. She speaks.

She does say that it was hard and that he was very hard on her and the set and people that were there. But she also says that she had never grown so much as an actress.

Yeah.

And she said that Kubrick was doing it to get the best take. And the thing is, is that so many of the takes that he uses are those 150th takes.

Oh, yeah.

So he wanted to get them to the point of exhaustion and loopiness. And what Jack Dickelson says is, like, I. I was doing things that I would never do as an actor because he was like, I. I was doing stupid things.

It was like I didn't know what he wanted, so I was just goofing around. I was just doing Making Stupid Faces.

Yeah.

And those were the ones that Kubrick used in the movie.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, this is like something in Stand Up. Like, I would love to do 150 takes of a set in stand up because the 150th one's gonna be the best one.

Yes, absolutely.

And I feel that happened in the movie, and I love that he took the 150th take, honestly, because, you know, they were doing all film.

Oh, yeah.

Like, what happened to the rest of the film?

Yeah.

I'd love to see all the other.

Tapes, unfortunately, usually they burn that.

I was about to say they probably burned it.

Yeah.

Wow, that'd be pretty.

Yeah.

Rando.

Rando.

Rando. Rums. Oh, gosh. I'm getting cheesy on my own podcast. I'm Stephen King, ladies and gentlemen, Randall Ram. All right. This is my favorite rando.

I'm gonna kick it right off. Danny Lloyd. All right. We talk a lot about how we're seeing some of the best kid acting we've ever seen today with stranger Things.

Okay.

His parents are, like, coal miner or the railroad workers. And the way he astonished them was the whole finger thing with Tony. That was his idea.

Just the finger thing or Tony in general?

The voice? No, no, Tony.

Okay.

Tony in the book is a whole character. You actually see Tony in the book. He's very cheesy.

Okay.

Tony is this whole thing. Although you do question Tony's motives more in the book because it's a little ambiguous. It's actually kind of interesting.

But his idea to talk with Tony's voice using his finger.

Yeah.

Was his idea. And he did it in his audition. And they said one that that blew them away.

But also that he apparently just held his own with Kubrick and Nicholson in the room.

Nice.

Like, he just was, like, confident and, like, just blew it away. And, like.

Yeah.

So that's how he got it. And what's crazy is he. He did one more. I think he did a show in the 80s and he never acted again.

Nice.

Four kids like me.

I mean, it's kind of the same as Charlie Bucket from Willy Wonka the Chocolate Factory. I think that was the only role he did.

A lot of actors.

Yeah.

Yeah. What's it. The girl from Growing Pains, Danica Bent. Patrick.

Oh, I thought she did other stuff.

She is starting to now. She's been a math teacher for most of her adult life.

Good for her.

I know she lives in Franklin.

Who knew?

I didn't mean to interrupt you.

No, you're a guest on the show. You're supposed to talk. I hope you're talking. May I talk now? I was like, shut up. This is my show. Go to hell. Go back to doing stand up.

Sometimes I just get. So this is why I can only do standups, because then I'm not talking over anybody.

No, I'm glad you're here. Talking of it. That would Suck if you showed up.

And you're just like, danny.

Yeah.

Right. Can I speak now, Mrs. Torrance?

Just like, over here.

Just. That's amazing. The whole rest of this podcast, just. Just scratching it.

Yeah.

And to finish that out. So we'll get more to. About Garrett Brown, the guy that invented the steady cam, who filmed this. But he. He talks about in the.

The commentary, he's the one that tells the story about how they got Danny. But he also said how sad he is that he never got to see him grow up as an actor because he was like.

He just felt like he had so much gifted, like, natural ability.

Yeah.

That he thought he would. Could have been great. One of the great ones.

Yeah. I think it was, like, perfect that this was basically his only movie, because he was absolutely the perfect choice for it.

And I love that he doesn't exist out of this movie.

Yeah.

Like, I think that's kind of amazing. And it sort of adds to the ethereal, whimsical sort of aspect of the Shining. It's like, wow, it just exists.

Yeah. That is.

That is kind of one of my big issues with Jack Nicholson actually, is he's so good in this movie that when they cast him as the Joker, I think they were expecting that Jack Nicholson. And fat Jack Nicholson showed up and. Because I hate his performance as Joker.

Oh, really?

I think he is absolutely one of the worst jokers that's ever.

Really.

This is coming from a man who has a joker card with. With Caesar Romero's face tattooed on his arm. Okay. Like, I. I hated his interpretation of the Joker, and. And I don't know if that was Tim Burton.

I don't know if it was him. I don't know if it was the vibe of the movie. Like, there's a lot of things that could have gone into why I don't like that performance.

But I can see if. If Shining Jack Nicholson had showed up as the Joker, that's probably what Tim Burton was hoping for.

And then just this fat fuck came up and I'm going to be a gangster. Just, I hated it.

He definitely had a lot more energy when he did peyote every day.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This was definitely the psychedelic, energetic Jack Nicholson period.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You had to catch him at the. The right time. Pokemon.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like, oh, there it is. Push the button. I don't. I've never played Pokemon.

I know, me neither. But you catch them.

What? She said.

Yeah, gotta catch them all.

I don't play Pokemon, I swear.

I mean, it it's all right. You're married. You're not trying to, like, impress. You're not trying to land anybody new who would be turned off by.

Anyways, like, going out with her. She plays Pokemon and she's married. And she talks like this.

She carries a microphone around. She do that.

You gotta add this to your routine.

I know this one talks.

Talking women. I hate talking women. Give me Shelly Duvall.

She can read.

She's the problem with the system.

Chuck.

And it's funny. This is the rando that goes on forever. Just. I forgot to add this part.

So because filming was supposed to take place over 100 days, it ended up getting to almost 400 days. Danny gets noticeably older in the movie.

Yeah.

I did notice he gets taller, which is cool.

Yeah, it is cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That is one hell of a shooting schedule.

Yeah, That's Kubrick.

Yeah.

And it's because of how he films. He test everything. So, like, lighting and. And here's another thing about. Some people read into him as this abusive, authoritarian guy.

But there is this other side of him. He asks everybody.

Yeah.

For their opinion. Like, he would ask Jack Nicholson his opinion on the lighting, and then they would. What they do. They would film. And these are part of the takes, too.

Sometimes when you read about 148 takes, the first 50 could be him checking lighting.

Yeah.

He literally. He wants them to work it out, but he also is, like. He wants to actually test it. So he tested everything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so that's. You know. And so sometimes a scene that was scheduled to take two days would take two months.

Yeah.

And it's just. And he had no control.

I can't imagine doing that with film. Like, Jesus Christ. Having that finite, limited amount of film trying to do all that. That just.

I've seen the intro scene. Yeah.

Yeah. And so the thing is, is he didn't like leaving England. He didn't like leaving his house.

And at this time, there's no, you know, WI fi or computers or anything like that. So they would take a picture and they would mail it to him. And then he would be, like, 2 degrees to the left.

And then they would film some more and send it to him and in the mail, and he'd send it back. So it'd be, like, a month. And so he would just be playing chess in the park during all this.

So that's another thing about his production schedules that I think made it so long. But he was also, like, not necessarily working the whole time, which I think could have added a lot to it.

Yeah, yeah.

A lot of dimension.

Yeah. And I think he did work the whole time on the Shiny, but that's because he had been trapped in.

He was in. Yeah. He was like, I want to go back to London as soon as possible.

Yeah.

Or not London.

He also didn't fly.

Yeah.

He was afraid of flying the last 30 years of his life.

I get that. In the 70s and 80s.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you could smoke then on a plane.

It's true.

And punch people, not get filmed. That's all I want. I want to be able to punch people and not be put on Twitter.

Yeah. You TikTok.

We already talked about this, but Nicholson got scat McCarthers on, but it was a horrible experience for him. In fact, he would weep on set during things, and he would be like. And he would walk up and say, I don't know what he wants anymore. And he would just.

And that's. And. But apparently that's what would eventually get Kubrick to stop.

Yeah.

Was when Scatman would cry, you know, and so in some ways, I think he knew that would get Kubrick to stop. But I think also that's kind of what Kubrick wanted.

Yeah.

He wanted.

I mean, honestly, that's how I get my husband to stop sometimes. Like, you know, like, you get to that point where you're just like, I. That's the. It's the. That's the ace.

I think he just wanted the. The having just cried undertone to Scatman's voice for the whole thing, because it kind of sounds like it.

You can kind of tell he's been crying recently.

Yeah.

Like, when you hear him talk.

Yeah. And he's. He's good.

Oh, it adds a lot of emotional layers to the characters, too. That's why they're all seem so real.

Yeah. Now, here's my question, though. How much of this movie was 80 yard?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe they don't talk about it.

Can you imagine doing 150 takes on set just to go back in later and rerecord the dialogue? Just to go back into the studio and him be like, all right, we're going to. You remember that thing that we finally got on set?

Well, now you're going to have to try to do it again in here.

Nicholson's mic'd up for a lot of it. Like, there's actually footage of him taking, like, in his gene. Like, back in the day, they would have, like, a recording device.

And he actually had it next to his fly. You think he's doing something really perverse, but he's actually. Actually.

He's, like, acting all provocative, but then he takes his microphone out and hands it to the.

That's fun.

And it's. Yeah, it's hooked up to his shirt.

Interesting, because that would have been pretty new technology then, to be able to have a portable mic for someone.

Yeah.

Damn. Okay.

Yeah, it's wild. I don't know how they. Maybe they sunk it up in post.

Yeah.

But, yeah, anyway. And again, like I said earlier, the ice cream scene between Halloran and Danny's 148 takes, which is the record man. Yeah.

It's nuts.

That's a lot of ice cream. I mean, so there's a lot of different filming textures in this. So the Stanley Hotel is what? That's in Colorado, right?

Yeah, that's the Nestus part.

Yeah.

I've been there twice.

Yeah. What was it like?

Cold.

Cold.

Cold in that. It's very haunted. It's a really beautiful place. However, it only occurred to me this morning that it's called the Stanley.

Yeah.

Like Stanley Kubrick.

That's funny.

Even though I'm sure that Stephen King is very upset about.

It should be called the King.

Yeah. But it is very haunted place. I didn't sleep very much there.

And you can go into the room where he wrote the Shining because it's the most haunted room. And that ghost will actually put your clothes away in the drawers.

So interesting.

And they're growing a maze. They're growing their own maze.

Oh, wow.

So when I went, like, seven years ago, it was teeny tiny, and they just planted it. And now it's, like, as big as I am. It's not very big. And you can get out of it pretty easily. I mean, I did. It's not a big place.

Yeah.

They couldn't have filmed it there. I know. They went there for three months and tried to, like.

Yeah.

Film it. And then they were doing all the research, and it just didn't line up with what Stanley wanted to do. But, yeah.

Interesting.

What if I get a water?

I was about to say, are you dying? This is something I do.

But like, I was talking about earlier, before I had a coughing fit. I'm like Mariana over here, choking on air. But the. So in the book, the room is 217. And they filmed it at the Timberline Lodge.

Yeah.

Which is crazy.

I remember hearing about that. I still don't really want to watch it.

Oh, it's funny. Yeah. They cast the guy from Wings.

I know, I know.

Stephen Weber.

I love Wings.

But they taste very good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nice and spicy.

Yeah.

But so anyway, the Timberline Lodge, because they actually have a room 217. They asked Kubrick to change it because they didn't want people freaking out when they actually stayed there.

Yeah.

Oh, I would have wanted to see. Stay there. Like. Like I'm. I'm dragging my husband to this place. We're gonna go this next year.

Hell, yeah.

Because we were doing this and I was like, you can actually stay there. I've been to the Stanley twice. I'm going to the Timberland now. But I want to be in room 237.

Hell yeah.

So, but another interesting fact about this. So I was talking earlier about the textures. So he actually. The rooms were sets at L Street in London.

Yeah.

And so they actually copied rooms from the Timberline. But the number 237 is also the B52 atomic hole. Holocaust code.

Yeah.

And Dr. Strange Love. Yeah. So that's why he actually.

Dr. Strange Love. That's my dad's favorite movie.

I love it.

I need to see that one too.

I think it's my favorite Kubrick film.

It's great. Full Metal Jacket too.

Oh, too many Kiss.

Yeah.

Did you not know that he did Spartacus?

I did not.

Yeah, he did Spartacus.

I don't know how I didn't know that.

Yeah, he did. He did a bunch of studio movies before they finally let him do his own.

Yeah.

Yeah. I feel like. I feel like Spartacus to him is like Insomnia to Christopher Nolan or Batman Begins to Chris.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Spartacus.

Yeah.

And everything he does is based on a book or pre written.

Yeah.

Garrett Brown, the inventor of the Steady Cam, he did. You said this earlier. He chased Rocky up the steps, but that was the first thing they ever did with the Steadicam.

Yep.

Kubrick took a chance and wanted him to do this. And that's how they got all these amazing. They call it locam.

Yeah.

Because they wanted, like the shots of Danny to be low to the ground.

Yep.

So it worked out great.

Yeah.

Crazy. And Garrett is interesting. Like, he's not just an amazing cameraman, like, listening to him Talk about film in general. He's a very knowledgeable guy.

And he said Kubrick basically taught him everything he knows.

Nice.

About camera work.

That's really cool.

Yeah.

That they use. So they went for the good stuff with the Elevator Man.

I love that. Strange.

Kensington.

Kensington. Shall we Shine?

Let's do it.

Shine, shall we? Shall we? Axe.

Yes.

Top bill cast.

Is that the. Yes and no. Shine and Axe.

Yeah. Oh, no, no. All work. All work is positive.

Okay.

No play is negative.

I like it. I like it.

You're going to like the ones I got for Sometimes I Think About Dying. Yeah, I got the good ones for that one. Yeah. All work is Affirmative. Good.

Yeah.

Love it. And no play is. I hate it.

Okay.

I can't wait to hear you on this. Sounds like you got some opinions.

I got a couple of opinions.

Brought your opinions.

They're nowhere near as strong as my Star wars opinions, but they're there.

Hey, well, you have your opinions. I got my ass glass.

There we go.

All right. Jack Nicholson and Shelley Duvall.

You go first.

Incredible. I. I love Jack Nicholson. This is my favorite movie he's in that he's ever been in, Honestly, other than the Departed.

I just think he adds so much to it. I believe that he's there. I believe he's still stuck in the hotel.

Yeah.

Like, this is one of those where he transcends who he is. It's amazing that he's already a famous actor at this point. And it's also funny that. How old is he in this movie?

Like, 40s, 50s, definitely early 40s.

Yeah.

Like.

Yeah.

And this is still.

Like, he had a lot of movies before this one.

Yeah. So I just think it's one of. It's. He's always going to be one of my favorite actors, but because of this movie specifically.

And then Shelley Duvall, I just. I love her expressive face and, like, especially the. The moments at the end of the movie when she's just, like, running around with the knife.

Just, like, kind of useless as a person. Like, she is like olive oil. She's almost like olive oil in the movie. In the Shining.

Yeah.

But, yeah, all. All work.

All work. I love it.

Here's the thing.

Oh.

I think Jack Nicholson did such an incredible job in this movie. I think he was the perfect casting. I think he. He played. Starting from the beginning.

You could tell there was something a little off, but he was still a pretty normal guy. And then as the movie went on, not only do you start to see his true nature, but then you start to see him actually go insane.

And I think that evolution was fantastic. I think Shelley Duvall was fucking terrible. Like, so bad that they almost cancel each other out for me.

Really?

Yes. What you're saying about her running around with the knife. I could not stop laughing with her just being.

Jack, Go, Jack.

It just. I just. I couldn't. I couldn't do it. It just. I'm sorry. So I'm actually as great as I think Jack Nicholson was. I have to go. No, play.

Oh, I completely knew you were going to say that.

She just. I just. It. It hurt to watch that. It hurt to watch that for me.

Yeah. And that's not an uncommon opinion. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Most people hated her.

Yeah. And I think Kubric hated her.

Oh, yeah. No, I understand. I'm in the minority here, but I do think that it was just a perfect movie for me.

No, I. And I see where you're coming from. It's a. It's a common opinion, so it's not. It's not necessarily a hot take. Yeah. I think it works. Personally for me.

I never. It's weird. I had loved it always just loved what I saw.

And then I eventually found out later that people hated Shelley Duvall so much, I was like, oh, that's weird. I never really thought about it. I always. I always thought it played into the movie really well. I hate what she was. She was subjected to, but I.

I think. Yeah, I don't know. I just think it works.

I mean, like I said, it does suck when you find out later not only what she went through, but he wanted somebody that he could abuse. He wanted somebody that was degenerative in terms of the female, like, progressive arc.

Yeah.

You know, and all that stuff. But I think. I mean, it plays in. I mean, I can't imagine her. I mean, what would it have been like if she was a strong.

Well, that's my thing, is, who would you have wanted to play her?

See, I don't know. I'm not familiar enough with the other actresses at that time.

Celine Dion, like a random choice.

I couldn't tell you how to replace her. All I know is I. There's. There's 70s acting, there's 70s overacting, and then there's Shelley Duvall in the Shining. Like, it was.

It was horrible for me.

Yeah. Hey, I get it.

That first scene where she's, like, holding.

The cigarette, though, that was the best acting. She did for the whole movie.

That's my favorite scene that she does, and I just. I don't know how old. She holds the space really well for.

Me in that moment.

If.

If she was that in touch with.

With the emotions that she was trying to portray for the rest of the movie, if she was that in touch as she was in that first scene, I think she could have done a great job. But the fact that that's the only redeeming quality for me, it just.

It hurts when she's kind of like, just slowly flubbing over the abuse to the. To the doctor.

I mean, it. Yeah. Eventually didn't even get like. Yeah, there was. That. That was so powerful.

And then you just watch the rest of it where I feel like she's not even trying anymore sometimes, which is sad. Cause I know. I know she was probably doing everything she could to give Kubrick what he wanted by then, but I just. I don't think it worked for me.

Yeah, I dig. I get it, man. I get it. All right. One to zero so far. It's all work. All work. All right, supporting cast, and I'll name a few of them.

Danny Lloyd as Danny Scatman. Carruthers as Halloran. Barry Nelson is Ullman. Philip Stone is Grady, who is awesome.

Yeah.

Joe Turkel is Lloyd. And then Ann Jackson as the doctor who's just pretending like abuse didn't happen.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's so 70s.

Isn't she the mom and freaks and geeks?

I think so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You go first. Yeah.

I like the cast.

Yeah.

I don't have a whole lot to say about most of them. Except for Danny. I think he's great.

Yeah.

I mean, again, I like that he just kind of exists in this movie as a child forever.

Yeah.

He's just like a little ghost kid that exists only in this movie.

His facial expressions are my favorite. Favorite.

Yeah.

He was absorbed into the hotel in real life.

Yeah. That's what it feels like, honestly. But I just feel like I. I like the fact that it just kind of feels like you were actually at a hotel.

Like, nobody ever really. Nobody actually stood out. You know how, like, all actors today are gorgeous?

Yeah, I like that.

They all look regular. Yeah, it's not that.

Something.

I mean, like, Jack Nicholson is. Obviously, if you saw him in person, you'd be like, wow, that's Jack Nicholson. Okay, he's hot. But, like.

But, you know, in the movie, you're just like, oh, he looks. You know, he's the right character for this.

Yeah.

But, like, everybody Else, I'm just kind of like, they. It's not even that they're not terribly good looking. It's just that they're not so good looking. They take you out of, like, what you're doing.

Yeah.

You're like watching a movie.

They don't stand out for those pretty reasons.

Yeah.

They look like actual real people.

That's why I like the way that Stanley Kubrick casts things, because I feel like he doesn't let, like, the looks of the actors get in the way of the story.

I mean, even with Eyes Wide Shut, as gorgeous as Nicole Kidman is and was, especially at the time, same with Tom Cruise, he somehow still made them look like normal people.

Yeah, like.

Like, they. They actually looked in. In terms of the class. Classism that was going on in that movie. They looked beneath everybody else.

Yeah.

So, like, no, he. He does an incredible job. I'm assuming you're going. You're going all work. Yeah, I'm going all work on this one as well. Like. Yeah, I think.

I think all of the supporting cast, he did a great job. I do think as Danny got older, closer to the end of the movie, not as great, but not enough that it would make me hate it or hate his performance.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think I especially love Grady. Like, yeah, he just. He's so weird and ethereal, but still, like, you're saying, very grounded in that.

He still feels like a real guy, but almost like a dream of a real guy.

Yeah.

Like, they actually cast a ghost. Yeah, Literally, they were just interviewing ghosts. They're like, I got one. One of you got a lot. We got a job for one of you.

Yeah, yeah. Philip Stone, who plays Grady, is like my American Psycho guy. You know how, like, they're always like, is that Ivanka Trump? Yeah, for a while.

And actually one time I was where I was like, that is Philip Stone. But most of the time I was like, oh, that's not Phillips. But basically they were bald and white. I was like, that's Phillip Stone. But I love Danny.

I think until we get to this new era of child acting, I think it's one of the best child on screen portrayals ever.

Agreed.

Scott McCreuthers is fantastic. I love Barry Nelson as Olman. You know, you got to be the guy to sell the job where the murders happen in a hotel. And he did a pretty good job.

Yeah, I agree.

I believed him.

And in the book, he is a major character in the book. He eats up a lot of the pages and everyone hates him. He's A hard ass. And everyone hates working for him. And this. He's just kind of a normal dude.

Yeah.

And I. I think he does. He's kind of a talk show host, honestly. Philip Stone is Grady, which he's been in everything I've ever watched, apparently.

If you're bald.

Nice.

Joe Turkel. And I like Joe Turkel's Lloyd. First of all, I just love this. Those are my favorite scenes in the movie of the scenes with Lloyd. White man's burden.

I just.

I just love those scenes. And the reason that he loves. So you know how Scorsese has his, like, batch of mob guys he always worked with?

Well, Kubrick had his batch of, like, illustrious British guys.

Yeah.

But, like, on the back end of it is this, you know, like, he's inviting. Like, he's. Can be the face of the pain that's going to come later.

Yeah.

And so I love that because I totally saw that because I watched it this time with that lens. I was like, man, he's devious. This. He's so friendly and kind of like, yeah, like, you know, what does he say?

Your.

Your money's no good here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's a perfect ghost.

Yeah.

Yeah. He's such a good bag. How good are these bad ghosts, huh? But, yeah, anyway. Yeah, all work here.

Hell yeah.

All right. Two to zero. All work writing. So we got Stephen King with the novel, but then Stanley Kubrick and the true American author, Diane Johnson, who.

Who Stanley Kubrick used to slap Stephen King in the face with in an interview. What do you all think of the writing?

I definitely don't think it's his best, but it's not bad. But it. As far as the few, now, again, this. I've only seen a couple of Kubrick movies, but from what I have seen, this felt the most stale.

And I wonder if that has to do with the source material. Like, I know they changed a lot, but I'm sure they kept the spirit of the dialog from the book. And I just feel like it.

It just wasn't up to snuff for what I would expect from a Kubrick movie. But I am still going all. All work. I think it was good, just not his best.

Yeah, we think.

I actually don't even feel like with the dialogue. I don't. You could mute the movie for me and Just play the music. And I think I know what was going on in every one of his movies.

Yeah.

I feel like the dialogue is very unimportant and I love that there's so sparse throughout. But you're right.

I mean, they, they almost sound like, not cartoons, especially Shelley Duvall, but like, it's just kind of unrealistic as why they're talking at all.

Yeah.

Sometimes you're just like, are you talking to yourself or.

Well, like that whole first scene where Jack is screaming at her.

Yeah.

It's like you went from 0 to 100 so fast for no reason. Yeah, there wasn't really any, especially with the dialogue specifically. There was no real evolution into, Into. Oh, now he's crazy.

It was just like, what, what happened here? Why are we suddenly batshit and cra. Insane, like.

Yeah.

But again, not bad enough that I would hate it.

Yeah, yeah, agreed. I'm just kind of like, it just wasn't an aspect for me.

Yeah.

I feel like Kubrick didn't care that much about the script, to be totally honest, Ever. Yeah, I feel like he is so much more about the visual and the storyline, which oddly doesn't need words to carry it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

See, I think Eyes Wide Shut is probably the one where he gave the most shits about the words that were said.

Yeah.

That's the only one you can tell. That's the only one planned out as far as, like every single possible word.

Like, there is a decent amount of dialogue in that movie, but it, it's, everything is still very purposeful. This, the dialogue kind of was just a mechanism to get to the next scene.

Yeah, yeah.

I, I, I think what's interesting is they, they did run into the problem of they were like, there's, if you watch some, if you go out on YouTube, there's some special features of actually Stanley Kubrick's mother is on, was on set and she was talking to Jack Nicholson at Kubrick and he was talking about like, I don't even read scripts at night anymore because by the time I get in the next day, I don't have the newest script.

Yeah.

And so they were, they were changing scripts every day.

And that's one of the reasons he filmed it chronologically is because he wanted to be able to make changes when he wanted to, which was apparently all the time. Yeah. And so at. Sometimes actors weren't even getting the most up to date scripts when they were filming.

But I think there's a lot of memorable lines here, like the whole Wendy with the bat scene.

Yeah.

And, you know, I always look at it from the perspective as an adaptation. Did you read the book ever?

No, I didn't.

Okay.

I don't want to.

Yeah, when you read the book, they did. They did a favor to the world by getting rid of some of that cheesy dialogue. Especially Dick Halloran, who's written so cheesy.

Like, there's just a lot of cheese. Danny's horribly written. They did the world a favor by. By watering some of that stuff down. And so I think as an adaptation, it works.

And like you said, the visuals scream so loudly that, like, you know, and. And the.

The.

The hotel is a character.

Yeah.

So in a way, the hotel is speaking.

Yeah.

I'm like, Like. And I love how the sound of the Shining is, like, when that shriek. You hear that shriek. Like. Like, whoa. That's.

It's almost like the hotel is speaking. Or that's the sound of shining is what that is.

Yeah.

It's like, whoa. You know, And I. I don't know. Like, I. I just. I personally. Again, same with my perspective on Shelley Duvall. I just never really thought about it.

I just always thought it worked. I'm a little biased. All work. We're working here. Yeah, working. Working. Directing. Stanley Kubrick.

I mean, is there anything to say? Yes, he did. He got the movie he wanted to make. It looks incredible.

Yeah.

It's a classic for a reason. It's iconic for a reason, obviously. All work.

Yeah, all work. He's the best. I. I don't know if I would have wanted to be on set or work with him because I used to do, like, set styling and production styling.

So, like, I can't even imagine what he was like when you're styling those calumet baking powder things. I think he would be very taxing to work with. I think everyone on the set was taxed, not just Shelley Duvall and actors.

Oh, yeah, they were taxed the most. But definitely all work. I just. Everything Stanley Kubrick created is just. It's really perfect.

Yeah. The attention to detail is unprecedented.

It really is. And I just. I love the fact that you can always tell he made it.

Yeah.

That's something about his films that I just. It's weird because it's so subtle and he's using things anybody could use, and it's the way he uses them.

Yeah.

He's basically a painter with sets. I. I don't even know how. I don't think I could, like, get this many people on board with an idea for this long.

Yeah.

Like, I'm just like, how did he get everybody to come show up to work for 400 days?

Yeah.

Yeah. That's what.

I really am amazed.

And when I found out that the ballroom was a set, I know that I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's beautiful.

Yeah.

All of it is a set. It's gorgeous.

Yeah.

I wish that was a set you could visit.

Yeah. There is a new thing in la, I think. I don't know if they're still doing, but they did a Kubrick kind of, like, historic thing.

And, like, when you walk in, you hear the sound of the Shining. Like the very first song that plays. And they have the costumes from the twins.

Yeah.

And they have. They have, like, the stick from space. Odd. Like, they have everything.

Yeah.

Was that at the Academy museum or was.

I think so.

Okay.

I think so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not a stick.

The Academy museum is incredible, by the way.

It's been a long time. I haven't watched it in a while. Sorry. A bone.

Sorry.

I'm glad you corrected me, though. I'm a idiot.

I quit.

This is your show now. Enjoy. You did this to yourself.

There we go.

You don't want the burden of making these spreadsheets.

You're right, I don't.

I'm such a nerd with my production sheets. I'm like, you guys want to see it? You're like, sure.

Not really.

You didn't even send me the spreadsheet this time.

But, yeah, I go all work as well. I'm mesmerized by most of his films, but this one specifically, the framing with the rooms, the red bathroom, the carpet, it's just all.

It's just so visually stimulating. And, like, the. The choice, for example, to hear Danny's Wheels on the ground, that was a choice they made, like.

Oh, yeah, because that was Foley.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And they didn't know. Like, they didn't think about that when they were filming because they knew they wanted it low to the ground.

But then they're hearing the sound, like, wow, that's haunting.

Yeah.

And there's just so many choices made.

And I love this idea of even though it sounds exhausting and it sounds like it ruins some people's lives, but the fact that he was pushing people to the limits and using those later takes is wild to me.

Yeah.

You know, and a lot of people. And it's funny that King is mad.

Was so mad that Jack Nicholson get cast, because if you watch a lot of the takes he did not every take was 1,000% madman.

Yeah.

Like, he was doing a wide range.

Yeah.

Because he is a very ranged actor.

100%.

He's great.

But those were the ones Kubrick took. And so, like, there were. There were takes of Nicholson doing more calm, more chill, more relatable. Yeah, But Kubrick didn't want those.

Yeah.

So he was pushing people to the limit to get what he wanted. And he did the same with the lighting. He did the same. And the. I guess. I guess perfection has a cost.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

It does.

I'll watch this movie any day of the week.

Yeah.

So hail Kubrick. It was a bone.

It was a bone.

It was a bone. Dammit. Now she's got a bone to pick with me. She's going to break my bones over the bone comment.

Boner.

Bone dry. Bone dry. All right, it's getting all worked up on here. Work, work, work. What's in front of us? Cinematography, production design, sound, costumes.

The score was done by Wendy Carlos, which is a great little Excerpt on the 4K. I recommend of her. She shows a bunch of outtakes of music that didn't make it.

Oh, she actually sent music to Kubrick from reading the book because that was. They asked her to gauge the music by reading the book.

Yeah.

It sounds so cheesy and horrible. She read the book and made the cheesiest sounding score ever. It's like Stephen King can't. He permeates the cheese.

What if that's the reason why Kubrick ended up picking her was because he's like, you perfectly represented this shitty book through cheesy music. I think you'll be able to do it correctly for my version.

Yeah. And then I'm gonna destroy your soul.

Yeah.

Yeah. She's one person that did not get ruined. She was like, I loved working with Stanley Kubrick.

Yeah.

Cinematography. John Alcott, who is no longer with us. But RIP rip. Amazing. Garrett Brown, inventor of the Steadicam. So there's just notables here.

So my only complaint with the cinematography, and we've discussed this, I'm pretty sure everyone, even Kubrick, probably agrees with me. Those helicopter shots sucked. Yeah, they were. So it's.

It's like, I get what you were trying to do, but how in the hell were you not able to stabilize these cameras? Because I've seen helicopter shots from that time period, and they're amazing.

And Lord of the Rings, I think, kind of like perfected the helicopter shot. Those sweeping shots. These were so bad.

That intro sequence was almost impossible for me to watch because it was just nothing but shaking around outside of that flawless. Great. All work 100%. Except for that. So 98%.

I mean, first blood two years later, the first Rambo movie would have great helicopter shots. I mean, just.

It sucks. It's the one part, it's the biggest blemish on this film that those shots just didn't look the way the rest of it did.

And it's not. It's not enough to be canceled out by the Steadicam work you think it was.

Oh, the Steadicam work completely made up for it. Again, it's 2% of the shots in the movie that just look like shit. That's not gonna make the rest of the movie look bad.

Zoe, working or playing here?

Oh, we're working. No, I said I'll work.

I'm sorry. I must have missed it because I was looking up the. Dave, First Blood came out as a comparison helicopters. I. I got the laptop over here. No, Cool. You.

What do you think?

You.

I know. That is so aggressive. I'm so sorry I'm abused you.

This is our 150 take of this.

You know what's funny? I didn't actually see a difference in that first shot. I kind of like how it was shot because.

So if you, if you've ever gone to Estes park, the, the road going to Estes park is also very windy in the same exact manner. But it's definitely not a sprawling like in Oregon, which I think is the beginning shots.

But I like the fact that he, like, turns the camera so that the, the road is like. I, I don't know how to explain it.

But see, again, I agree with you. That's where I'm like, the concept was there.

Yeah.

But the camera wasn't stabilized, so it was just bouncing while it was doing stuff. So that's, that's me. Me. That's all me.

I guess it just didn't bother me at all. Fair. I, I, I was having this fight with my husband earlier today.

Yes.

When we were. When I was trying to watch that horrible documentary about the Shining.

And, you know, I get the fact that, like, some of this stuff is, like, stupid, that people make up, that they see things in the movie that might not be there.

But I also feel like Kubrick is so intentional about everything else that I would be very hard pressed to believe that he wasn't completely okay with the opening shots, because he was. He was so okay with waiting three months to get the right thing. So now I'm kind of wondering why he would want it to be not as stable as possible.

Or if it maybe physically wasn't impossible. My thing is, is then why didn't he build a tiny set and just like.

Yeah.

It didn't take me out of it. And I kind of love that sweeping beginning shot just because I love windy roads going to the mountains.

And, like, even though I know everybody dies at the end, like, it looks like a nice vacation or like an introvert.

Well, I feel like you were telling me something about those helicopter shots.

Yeah, well, first of all, was that book called It's a Bone. It was a phone. That's the name of this. The Making of a Space Odyssey. It's a boat. But, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So they created. So for the.

They created a rig. So. And actually, Kubrick invented it because before he made movies, he was a photographer. That was his thing.

And he created a wheelchair so he could sit on the back of the camera. So of the Steadicam. So as they're, like, moving the Steadicam around, he's riding. So he's always over the back of the cameraman. Yeah, the whole time.

But he also doesn't fly. So the only shot he wasn't sitting in for and wasn't, like, on the back of the camera for was the helicopter shot. Because he doesn't fly.

Yeah. But I would assume that he would watch it.

Oh, yeah.

Over again.

Oh, yeah.

So I don't know. I mean, again, he's one of those people where I'm just like. I just feel like he had creative control over everything.

But, see, there's. There's shots later in the movie with the same sweeping thing that are more stabilized than those. So I don't know.

For part of me feels like it was one of those where he's like, it does what I want it to do.

I can't.

I can't stabilize it. So it is what it is. And then later it's like, okay, we got a good one, so I'll keep that one in. But I don't know. I've. I've been.

I've been on enough sets and seen enough anal directors. Just randomly pick the moment where you're like, this should be better. And they're like, ah, it's good enough.

Yeah, same, same. Been on a lot of sets.

Yeah.

Seen a lot of directors and. But my thing Is about. It is.

I, I think he does these little detail things, like when he takes the chair away in that one scene in the background, I think he's trying to mentally throw you off just a little bit.

It's possible.

Movie.

Yeah.

I just, I, I like to think it's all intentional. But of course, you know, I get it. There is a schedule at the end of the day.

Yeah.

People do have to eat, you know.

Yeah.

But I just feel like he is trying to throw you off your, like, your foot the whole time.

Yeah.

So I don't know.

Yeah. He's.

And like I said, it wasn't big enough to make me hate the rest of the movie. I like, the rest of the shots are incredible. So it's like. Yeah. It's just for me, the one thing that I had to complain about. But yeah. Still all work.

There's so many artisans that do a good job generating like mystique.

Yeah.

In post, like after they die. And like, he's one of the, like Andy Warhol's one of them. Kubrick. Like these people that die. Like, I don't know if I understood that guy.

Yeah.

You know, he's just a complete enigma.

Yeah.

They create enough mystique to where you're questioning stuff you're reading about them.

Yeah.

Like, because I didn't have time, but I was going to read some of the Kubrick. There's some really great biographies. But everyone, everyone on Reddit and stuff is like, it's hard to nail down what's the definitive one.

Yeah.

Because it just depends on what rabbit trail you went down with Kubrick.

Yeah.

To figure out what was true and what was it. And it's like some people really bought into the mystique, you know, and some people, like, would go another way.

So it's hard to say what's definitive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I'm just really glad he didn't have like a tick tock and like, we didn't know more about him because that's the other reason why it works.

Yeah.

Because I'm like, I don't want to know what he likes to eat.

Yeah.

Yeah. What would be the equivalent to Shelly Duvall today?

Like, he was like Ariana Grande, you know, like, like here's a clip of me screaming at Ariana Grande because we're on our 150th take and she's not doing.

She can't say the one line.

LOL. You imagine Kubrick saying LOL.

No.

Yeah.

It's. It's the holding space.

This Next category. I named it after. After Apocalypse Now. I called it this because one of the biggest arguments about this movie is is it a horror movie or not? And.

And the reason it's a big argument because those who. Who think it's horror, some criticize it heavily. Specifically, I have a quote from David Cronenberg here criticizing the Shining.

He basically said in his critique, he directed it as if he didn't understand the horror genre or he hated the horror genre. Genre.

That's great take.

Yeah, that's what Cronenberg said, so.

God, I love Cronenberg.

Me too.

And love it.

And he has the cred in this area.

He does.

Yes, he does. But he's a completely different kind of horror director.

Totally different body.

Horror is not the same as any other kind of horror.

It's not psychological horror.

The Fly and this don't intersect.

No. Look, I. I feel like you have these directors like Kubrick, like. Like Christopher Nolan, who like taking genres and doing their own thing.

For Christopher Nolan, it's time for. For Kubrick, it's a different thing for every movie. But he puts his own spin on it. He takes these ideas and makes a genre film, but makes it his own.

And so I think this was horror by Stanley Kubrick. I don't think it should or can be compared to most other horror movies. I do think it is a horror movie.

The first time I watched it, genuinely terrified the whole way through. But it's very psychological horror. It has nothing to do with gore. Yeah. There's the one scene of the woman in the bathtub. But, like, it's.

It's not a gory movie. It is just straight mental terror.

Only one person gets killed in the movie.

Yeah. Yeah.

One.

One guy. Yeah. So, no, for me, it's. It's all work because it is 100 a horror movie.

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know how I feel like now. If it was made now, they would call it like a psychological thriller.

Yeah.

But at the same time, I watch a lot of thrillers and a lot of horror, but I mostly watch horror in my life. Honestly, it's my favorite category. I would definitely say it's a horror movie because it just. They build the tension so well. And it's not.

It's not thrill. It's not a thrilling thing. You're just like. You're like, I can't breathe.

Yeah.

I can't.

It's stressful.

It's so stressful. He's so good at creating stress. And then at the end of it, you're just like, thank God.

Yeah.

But yeah, I think it's definitely a horror movie. And I, and when people say it's not, I'm kind of want to be like you, just trying to find something wrong with you. Just trying to be difficult.

You know, I, I, Some people just, they critique too much.

Movie fans. Be, be difficult. What.

I know. That's why I don't normally talk to anybody. I'm like, I'm like, I locked it by.

What's the. I'm trying to think of. I was thinking.

I love something you said and we've talked about this because you are such a horror fan, but I feel like horror has become the most creative genre lately.

Yeah.

I feel like when I'm. Because, you know, you look at them like you see what's come out in the, like the theaters and I'm just so disappointed most of the time.

There's a handful of movies I want to see now, but most of the ones that interest me are horror.

Yeah.

With a smile. And we have all these really interesting. I just feel like that's where. And they're doing it for low budgets.

Yeah.

And I just feel like that's where the creative nexus is in film. In a film. In a, In a world where we're doing reboots all the time.

Yeah. Let me tell you why that's the case, in my opinion.

Yeah, please.

I've had a lot of people who agree with this. Horror is the one genre that forgives mistakes when you're trying to swing for the fences.

If you have a cool concept and you do it 95% perfectly, they will forgive those 5% of mistakes. Because it's horror.

Because there are supposed to be more moments in horror where it, it is a little outside of, of what you would normally think of from a movie. And, and because it allows for those mistakes.

I feel like more and more filmmakers have been trying to do the crazy thing with horror because it just allows for that. So that's why I think there's so many good ones, is because people are actually trying their best with them.

And it's also the only genre you can make for a very low budget and make an amazing.

Yes.

Like, they're my favorite. Horrors are all low budget. Honestly. One person, one room. Those are my favorite.

Yeah.

Well, I don't know how it works.

Yeah, no. Yeah. It's like, it's like we talked about with Upgrade.

He purposefully chose a lower budget because he felt like having too much money would end up ruining the movie because he wanted it to feel low scale, but still high concept.

Yeah.

Yeah.

One of the best horror movies ever was one of the Duplass brothers, Mark Duplass. He made Creep.

Oh, I've heard of that. When I haven't seen it.

Just him in, like, a video camera.

Yeah.

In the woods. It's one of the scariest movies I've ever seen in my life.

Nice.

Yeah.

And now and then there's Creep 2, and then the Creep tapes. And it's just amazing how easy it is.

Yeah.

Easy.

Yeah.

With a great concept.

Yeah.

Because you can create something that's so scary.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because honestly, it's so easy to get scared, too, honestly. Because any time in your life, you could just be sitting in your car and then it can be scary.

Right.

All of a sudden, somebody just runs up behind your car. Car or a truck just appears and rams your car. Like, anything could be scary.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. And I think. I think. I love the term genre bending.

Yeah.

Because I think that applies heavily here. And I think, like, I think about the Witch. Like, Eggers is doing this to me now. Like, when I first heard he was redoing Nosferatu, I was like, yeah.

But then I, like, started seeing the trailer, so I was like, all right, I'm. I'm in.

Yeah.

Like, that guy has blown my mind. Because, like, the Witch is a great movie because, like, you can watch that whole thing and be like. Like, was that because of Ergot?

Yeah.

Like, is that. Is that. Is that the whole thing was Ergot? Maybe. But the whole purpose of horror, like, in its most basic form is to generate discomfort in some way.

And, I mean, I don't know about. If you guys thought about the Shining this way, but one of the most horrific things about it is if. If the. If the hotel is a. The.

It shines and it's predatory. It is. It's violating someone who has struggled with abuse, alcoholism, and it's exploiting that person to accomplish.

Because it wants Danny, because Danny has more Shining than anybody. And they want Danny's power. They want to absorb Danny in the hotel. They. As in the entities that.

Yeah.

Because it's an Indian burial ground and all that. But what's more horrific than that than an entity knowing that he's easily exploitable?

Yeah.

Just with a. With a drink. And we don't even know if he really drank.

Yeah.

Yeah. You're still like, did he actually drink or did they just does the hotel making him feel like he's drunk? But, like, that's horrific. To me. Yeah.

You know, and so that, to me, is genuinely horrific. So I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. But I don't necessarily agree with Cronenberg.

I think just because he didn't do it the way you do it, which I respect Cronenberg.

Yeah.

I respect the. Out of him. But just because he didn't do it your way.

Yeah.

You know, and thank God he didn't do it Stephen King's way. You know, who's.

The.

Who's to say Horror is the most wide genre out there? And you can also put pockets of four. That's why we have sci fi horror with aliens. You know, we have body horror, like you said. We have so many.

There's a. There's a type of horror for everyone.

Yeah.

So.

And I like them all.

Yeah.

Yeah. So anyway, I think we nailed that really well, but all work. Yeah, that was a. I thought that would be an interesting discussion to have.

Yeah.

Last one. This category is called Can't Touch this. King went on to make his version.

Yeah.

In 97 with Stephen Weber from Wings to play Jack Nicholson's role. Good move. Yeah. Might as well have gotten Jerry Seinfeld.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

That'd be a better pick.

Yeah, it would be, actually. I could see it, but that'd be way better. I mean, he picked a.

What is the deal with these ghosts, Lloyd?

What are you doing here?

I just feel like he could have pulled like, a Robin Williams and been like, whoa, Jerry, sign. Greenfield has.

Man. Robin Williams would have been wild, though. You just said that. Now I want to see him in everything. Now he's dead because he rip.

There's so much stuff he could have done, seriously. But, yeah, I. It's just wild. And this is King and this category. And I've had a version of this category. It's kind of like a reboot category.

But, like, did King have justification? Did this film. Did he need to go and prove himself to remake it? Or was this too big? Was it too iconic?

I think it was too iconic. I think when you have a director like Kubrick, who even at the time was pretty infamous with some of the movies that he'd put out by then. It's. It's.

It's very. Also, especially when you're doing it direct to tv, it's gonna be cheap no matter what.

And you can tell that so much thought was put into literally, simply where the camera was placed. There were certain shots that should have been perfectly symmetrical that he's like, eh, move it. That Way two inches.

Just to make you feel that uneasiness.

Yes.

Just to make you feel like something's a little off.

Or use that specific camel camera lens.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And. And that's something that could never be replicated with tv. You don't have that much time to put that much forethought in.

Everything with TV shooting is just get coverage. Just make sure we've got a wide medium and a close up. And then whatever inserts we have to put in of inanimate objects to tell the story.

With film, and especially with Kubrick, he was able to put the amount of thought into it to make it such an iconic movie.

Yeah.

So are we going no play. As far as it shouldn't.

Yeah, like he shouldn't have done it. Like it's as it stands today.

Yeah.

Like the story. And obviously you guys haven't read it, but I think I've told you enough about the original. The book.

I don't need to read it.

Yeah, it's not worth it. It's the worst. It's one of the worst King novels. I'm sorry, I get. I get raked over the coals for that. I don't know why I'm pointing the camera.

Yeah, another Deftone situation.

Yeah. Shining.

Yeah, it's shining.

Shining, you jerks. But yeah, I. It's. It's one of the worst.

It's.

It's horrible.

Yeah.

It's just so cheesy.

All made for TV movies are. Except for this old French movie called World on a Wire. It's the only made for TV movie that's ever been good in the whole entire history.

I heard that the made for TV Dune was actually really good.

Oh, I didn't see that. The only Dune I like is Alejandro Jojorowski's Dune.

I would love to have seen what he was gonna do with that.

Yeah, no, but like, the documentary is the funniest movie I've ever seen.

Oh, I've heard.

No, I won't watch the new Dune. It looks terrible. I watched a little bit of it. I like the whole cast. I like the look of it. It's just. I think it's for stupid people.

I'm sorry. I hate it so much.

I hate it.

So sorry.

I thought it was so much better than Star Wars.

I hate Star wars too.

Good to know we're all on the same.

You also. I thought you did like it.

No, I think A New Hope is. Is the worst Star wars movie. Yes. I think the best one is the ace one, because I don't even consider it canon.

It's part of the, like, the fan fiction trilogy is what I call it.

The only part of Star Wars I like are the Ewoks. And I know that that is a very.

That's a very controversial statement.

I hate them all. All.

They're the best. They're the only part that's redeeming. And then Han Solo.

Yeah. Yeah. It's fun to watch sometimes. But no, I'm not gonna sit here and act like it's good sci fi. It's B grade sci fi with an A grade budget.

Yep.

That's a perfect description.

And Lucas is a disaster.

That's a whole great idea, man. And a fantastic producer. And he should never write or direct again.

Yes.

Yeah.

Love you, George. But this is.

This is kind of. My point is, like, so you can be a creative person and make fun things, but they're not necessarily genius. And that's okay.

Yeah.

But that's how I feel with Stephen King, where I'm like, oh, man, he just bit off way more than he could chew.

Yeah.

And like, he didn't have the, the.

I don't know what it was that Kubrick had, but he made all these perfect decisions in production quality and timing and how it was done, the length of things. And, you know, he was just really demanding. Which you have to be basically borderline crazy.

Yeah.

To get all of this accomplished. And then I just don't think that Stanley or Stephen King had like the wherewithal or the outside. I think he was just doing too many drugs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Honestly.

And Kubrick used to toy with him too. I didn't tell this in the earlier story, but sometimes he would randomly call Stephen King at 3 in the morning. And one time he called him during.

And this was after he rejected his screenplay and said that I'm getting a real American author. He called Stephen King at 3am and said, do you believe in God?

Oh, my God, just.

And he also ran a fake ending by him.

There was this whole ending where Halloin where they were gonna kill Jack and then Hallon would take on the spirit and then kill everybody and then kill himself. He totally just made it up. And he just called Stephen King just to mess with him. Be like, hey, what do you think about this ending? This is so hor.

Like compared to Stephen King's. That is such a horrible derivative of. But I think he just said it to him just to piss him off.

Like, what about this really horrible ending for your book?

Look, Stanley Kubrick, the OG troll.

I was about to say that he's the original troll.

Oh, my God.

Do you believe in God?

I wish we said it at the same time. I was like, original troll, right?

Yeah. Except this is respectable trolling to do it over the phone.

Oh, yeah.

I love that he was like that because that's like how I would be, honestly, if I was a man. I would be just like Steven Stanley.

Stephen Lee Kubrick hotel.

Can you imagine getting a phone call at three in the morning and it's Stanley Kubrick going, do you have Prince Albert in a can? You better let him out.

I love it.

That's amazing.

I love it.

That's my favorite fact.

Yes. Yeah. That's fantastic.

Well, I'll round it out. I go all work too. And I think I've seen, I've seen the 97. I've read the book a couple times and I do. I actually think the stand was really well done.

That was like Sinise, what's his name? Gary Sinise. Is that right?

Yeah.

Yeah. That was his big launching point. It actually is pretty good. Yeah. And Randall Flagg is a very interesting. In the Stephen King universe.

Randall Flagg is in all the universes. And he's a very interesting, he's very interesting character. In fact, he's in it somehow. They've worked him in there somehow.

Like, that's a fan theory, I think, but interesting. I, I, I just, I don't understand King's anger. Like, Benchley wasn't pissed at Spielberg.

Yeah.

What he did to Jaws. And he was like, you know, I wouldn't have done it this way. But again, he's an author.

Yeah.

And like the, the hedge maze, animals and all the things that he thought should have been in the movie he put on screen and it looked horrible.

Yeah.

And they didn't really even have the technology to do a lot of it.

Yeah.

And I, I just don't like why. Dig your heels in. And it really shows how egotistical King is to, to think, well, he's mad that it's no longer Stephen King's the show.

It's like, well, you wrote a book that launched it. Like, aren't you proud?

Yeah.

And don't you have 300 books?

Yeah.

And 50 TV properties, like, what you're doing? Okay. Bro.

Be excited that you inspired one of the greatest filmmakers that's ever existed to make something that was really good.

Yeah.

Yeah. He's so insecure.

Yeah, yeah.

It's a visual medium and he made some of the most iconic images we've seen. And I don't have to go on, but I. This is totally all work because I just, just. I've lost so much respect.

I've read so many Stephen King books in my life and I, I have never read so many novels by a person that I think is mediocre. I don't know why I kept reading them, but I was like, I'll just keep going here.

Yeah.

You know why? It's because they were like $5 at Walmart.

Oh. Yeah. Well, that's most of my favorite movies I found that way.

Well, one thing I will say though is I've seen a lot of remakes of Stephen King stories like current, like Gerald's Game and things like that. His really simple ones are great.

Mm.

But I feel like he's probably like plagiarizing somebody else, honestly. Yeah, probably so insecure. I just, I have trouble. I have struggled to believe that he's actually smart enough to like be.

I mean, it was the code.

Thank you.

It was the coke.

He was just all on too many drugs.

Yeah.

Maybe he was too successful. Maybe that was it. You know, they made a lot of money back then.

Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, these writers.

Too much.

Oh, yeah.

I know people personally that have sold books for film rights.

Yeah.

And still work a part time job.

Yeah.

Today. Yeah. I'm not saying they're all like that, but there are movies on Netflix by that, by people I know personally that still work.

And these, they're not like, they're not blowing their money on coke.

No.

There are movies on Netflix. They're paying rent and they're still, they're still like working a day job.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

It's just a different game now, man.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, and then the robots are coming.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This book was by like a 16 digit number. It's just like a barcode. That's the barcode of the robot who wrote it.

You know, I guess once like, you know, they're sentient, then I guess they can read each other's books. But I don't necessarily want to read an AI book yet.

I just got a hilarious image, probably an AI generated image of a bunch of robots sitting around enjoying each other's books that they've written. Yeah. And they're not excited about the content. Like, I wrote this in 1.4 seconds. Oh, yeah. Well, I, I painted this in 1.9 seconds.

Yeah.

We've got off track no, it's great. I got the Shining. But hey, this was fantastic. 7 0. I loved your opinions, though. I loved something totally. I understand some of the.

The contrarian thoughts there. Awesome. Well, I. This was fun. I'm glad I finally got to cover a movie in my top 10. I'm Kyle.

I'm Seth and Mariana.

Love y'all.

See you next time, Movie Wars.