Welcome back to Lending Leadership: The Mortgage Pros—your go-to source for real talk on leadership, recruiting, and building successful teams in the mortgage industry.

This week, we dove deep into one of the most commonly misunderstood (and, honestly, daunting) aspects of being a branch manager: RECRUITING. If you’ve ever found yourself wondering, “Why isn’t my company recruiting loan officers for me?” or felt overwhelmed at the thought of building a branch people actually want to join, this episode is for you.

No special guest this week—just us, Robert Fillyaw, Dave Holland, and Tom Mills—three longtime mortgage pros who’ve all walked the recruiting road ourselves. We pooled our biggest wins, hardest lessons, and no-BS tactics for attracting top talent and creating the kind of leadership teams stick with.

We unpacked why most managers strike out when it comes to recruiting, the misconceptions that hold leaders back, and what it really takes (from mindset to process) to consistently add talented loan officers to your branch—and keep them thriving. From why servant leadership trumps being a top producer, to real-world advice for avoiding bad hires, we’re sharing behind-the-scenes stories and actionable steps to help you level up.

Whether you’re a solo producer thinking about growing a team, a seasoned branch manager ready for your next hire, or just want to hear some wild recruiting stories, this is an episode you don’t want to miss.

Key Takeaways:

1. Recruiting is a Different Skill Set Than Origination: Just because you’re a top producer doesn’t mean recruiting or leadership will come naturally. In fact, the drive and “alpha” that makes someone a killer salesperson often clashes with the servant leadership needed to run a successful branch. We break down why the skills for running a branch, recruiting, and producing are unique—and why most managers should focus on building systems before diving into recruiting.
2. Relationship Management Trumps Cold Calls: Recruiting is all about relationships, not just banging the phones. Branch managers who consistently build great teams are the ones who’ve invested in genuine, long-term industry relationships—showing up, collaborating, and building trust over time. People join leaders they know, like, and respect—not strangers with empty promises.
3. Your Reputation & Operations Matter: If you can’t manage your own files, provide a smooth operations platform, or have a reputation for being difficult, recruiting loan officers will be an uphill battle. Before you even think about hiring, take a hard look at your current business: Would YOU want to work for you? If not, fix that foundation first.
4. Be Ruthless About Fit—Don’t Hire Assholes: One rough hire can poison your culture, eat up your time, and drive away good talent. We’ve all been tempted by the “win” of landing a big name or a high producer, but if someone’s a bad attitude or isn’t aligned with your values, walk away. Some of our best hires were the ones we never made.
5. Recruiting is a Long Game—Be Intentional and Sincere: Define what you want your team to look like before you start. Know your “why,” get your value proposition straight, establish a repeatable process, and commit to honest and sincere conversations. Don’t oversell or bluff—if you don’t deliver what you promised, you’ll lose people fast. Recruiting isn’t a one-time event or short season—it’s about persistent, genuine engagement.

Thanks for joining us for an honest, in-the-trenches look at what it really takes to build and lead a team in this business. Whether you’re growing your branch or thinking about making your next hire, remember: Participation in your own success starts with you, not your company. Relationships, accountability, and authenticity are the foundation of lasting recruitment and retention.

Questions or comments? We’d love to hear from you. Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and leave us a five-star review! See you next time on Lending Leadership: The Mortgage Pros.

Robert, Tom, and Dave

But I asked him about it out of the gate. I was like, hey, can you tell me about your. Your prior work history? Looks like you've, you know, you moved around a little bit. And he goes, ah, what is this? It's our first date. And on your first date, do you ask how many sexual partners the person has had? Why are you asking me this?

Whoa.

I was just like, well, I mean, maybe, but maybe not. I don't. It's a fair question, but it's a fair question. We're not talking about your sexual partners.

Think your company is going to recruit top loan officers for you? Think again. In this episode, we're breaking down why most managers strike out on recruiting. The leadership traits that actually attract talent and a no BS playbook for building a branch. People want to join. Welcome to the lending leadership with the mortgage pros. Hey, guys, how we doing?

I like this topic.

I love this topic. You. You said most managers struck out, and I like it popped in my head. Swing bad about a swing. Bad about. About a swing. Do you know you can't. You can't job talk like that in little league baseball anymore?

It's not allowed.

Not allowed. Well, at least where I'm at, it's not allowed anymore. It's like, interesting, you know, unsportsmanlike.

Doesn't. Doesn't seem very offensive to me.

I know, right?

Get out of here with that. But I do love this topic. You know, I'm gonna just. Right out of the gate, why isn't my company recruiting for me? You may not be recruitable like you. You may be a branch manager out there, and, and you know, you. You want LOS under you. And meanwhile, you're a dumpster fire. You can't get files turned in on right on time.

Not. Nothing smooth and easy. Like, why would they want more of that?

Well, you know, and it's two different skill sets. Three different skill sets. Running a branch, running a P and L. Right? Recruiting loan officers and then producing loans. Right? Those are truly three different skill sets. Right? And just because you're good at one doesn't mean you're good at all three or even two. So we see this. Top producers want to take a step back, maybe not produce as much, you know, grind it out as much.

And they think, well, I can just recruit a bunch of loan officers and get an override. It's not that easy because everyone's trying to recruit. That's the name of the game right now, right? And these are people who've been doing it for decades and are really good at it. So you're not going to open up, you're not going to hang a shingle and all of a sudden loan officers are going to be, you know, be beaten down your doors. And how many times have you heard it from ellos who are branch managers? Well, shit, recruiting's harder than I thought. Well, yeah, it's very hard.

Yeah, I think that's a good point, Dave. You know, a lot of times in our, in our business we think that that's like the natural progression, right? Like top salesperson, then to branch manager, then to sales leader, recruiter. And I would submit to you probably 85 to 90% of the time that's not the case. Like if you're a top salesperson 90% of the time, you should probably stay as top salesperson because the skills that are needed for one to the other, as you mentioned, are so vastly different. And the reality for, for most people with an override is, especially if you're still producing, is it takes 10 of their loans to equal one of yours.

Right.

So what are you going to focus on? You're going to focus on your own business. And it's really hard when you've been a top producer. Just the mindset, the, the traits, the alpha, the alpha that is to go to branch manager, leading people. Because I think it's got to be servant leadership now. It is less about you and what you do and more about your people and taking care of them and making sure they excel and succeed. That's a hard transition for a lot of people to make.

Yeah, you took the words out of my mouth. I was going to go in the same direction. It's not. Don't think like that's the next, next progression or how you advance in this business. And you know, quite, quite honestly, if you're a fifty million dollar producer, right, it's probably easy to get yourself to be a hundred million dollar producer than to maintain being a 50 million dollar producer. Adding five LOS to your team that do 10 million each, it's probably without a doubt you're in much more control of it. It has to be like, you know, something that you desire. And sometimes that's not always in the beginning.

Right. I've seen that where you know, someone, they don't have it all figured out and then they kind of get it figured out. They get their own support team, not team of originators, but support people in their business and get that really dialed in to where they feel inspired to then go lead and help and guide others down that Same path. And that, that's the, the first. I think really the place that a manager should be in their business isn't running well if the, their team, you know, isn't running efficient. Bringing NLOs to the mix is never the solve today.

No, it's just an exponential debacle.

And Tom, I think you brought up a good point, Robert, as well, that it can't always be about the money. You know, you, you want to have the desire to help loan officers, the desire to lead, the desire to, to develop. And to your point, Tom, to get to $100 million is definitely easier than, than trying to recruit and help groom five $10 million producers, which, which is a great number, but that, that's a great annual number, but they're going to require a lot of attention. And to Robert's point, if you have something on fire and your lo has something on fire, and the answer is you're going to work on your stuff first, you're probably not going to be a great branch manager and sales leader if you have five or six people under you just not going to work. I've been there. I, I was not a great sales manager because I focused on my stuff first, always.

I think, though, when we go back to like, you know, Robert saying, you know, maybe not, you're not, you're not recruitable. You know, I think that there's, there's managers that are in their market that, you know, no other originators in their market, that it's really hard that if you never had engagement in your market, never spoke to others, were really kind of, you know, that competitor that was kind of cocky and, you know, people thought you were a jerk, like, you're probably not recruitable. Like, people aren't looking at you as someone, as a leader that somebody that they want to be a part of that, that team. You're, you're not, you know, you know, you're not forming relationships that, that ultimately lead to, to building your team, because that's really what recruiting is. It's, it's just, it's another word for relationship, especially in this business. It, it's a, it's a different level of relationship management that, that takes time and, and, you know, consistency to, to see those relationships kind of come to fruition consistently anyway. Yes, you can bang the phones and get some pops, but people that recruit consistently over a long period of time do it because they've managed relationships well for a long period of time.

I love that, that thought process and aspect, and I think that really move that that's where the dialogue needs to be and it moves the needle, right, Is the relational aspect of recruiting. And I think it's, it's really valid what you say, Tom. Like, if you're that branch manager out there and you know, you're always in your office and only focusing on your business and you're not out being collaborative in the market and you're not building relationships and you're not being seen and, you know, maybe you were a jerk face meanie, right? Like, all of those things are detrimental to your recruiting. I do think also, like, I think there's a natural progression. If you're, if you're wanting to do this, you're going to have to not be able to, to not have to focus on your business as much. That means you need a team that is built and, and dialed in and strong that can take that stuff and handle stuff, right? That means that you need to have good, clean files. You need to be a good operator yourself. Like people say they promised they were going to recruit to me and then they didn't.

Well, that may be because, you know, the, the first files that came in were on sideways and burning up, right? And then they're like, well, he can't.

Like, can't manage yourself. You can't manage others.

If you can't manage yourself, you can't manage your pipeline, you can't manage your file submission. How are you going to teach and grow and mentor others, right? Like, you can't. It's, it's impossible.

Well, you have to create some stories too, right? You know, so if you're, whether you're like, you know, a single producer thinking about wanting to build a team, or you're a small, you know, a manager with a couple of loan officers looking to, you know, add more, you've gotta, you gotta look at your staff and say, you know, what stories have been created here, you know, what successes have been done because people want to kind of see those successes, you know, and, and you know, if you're a manager that's in a company and you've got three originators that have been with you for eight years because they just kind of ended up on your team and, you know, there's nothing inspirational happening. There's no sales meeting, there's no collaboration, there's no real culture within the office, you're not showing up within your own community where other originators are to see it's kind of hard to recruit to that. It's really hard to recruit to that.

And you also really need to take an objective look at yourself and look in the mirror and what are you offering loan officers day to day? You just don't want to stack a room with loan officers and not offer any leadership. Sales tip, operational tactical, you really got to help the los. That's your job and that's your duty. When you have people on your branch or they're going to come and leave if there's nothing to offer, they're going to be out the door once their contract's up.

I think that's really well said, Dave. I think, you know, where you need to start is just ask yourself, would you want to work for you? And if not, like, what do you need to, what do you need to improve? Where do you need to add value? What do you need to get better at to make you someone that you would want to work for? We know that there's a severe lack of leadership in our industry. What can you do to bridge that gap and what can you bring to the table to attract top talent?

Right?

What differentiates you from any other branch manager out there? What do you bring that is a value add to that loan officer that makes you attractive.

And it's not a one thing like you have to be this, you could be you, you may not be, you may be a branch manager that's not really a sales oriented person, but you run such a great operations that loan officers can come in there and they can get out and sell and, and, and things are taken care of and you've got a dynamite team. Like that's, that's massive value. You have to learn how to get out and translate that value into success. You know, maybe you're, maybe you plug in through, you know, your company's operations and you drive sales, you get out and develop business with your team or you, you know, are going to conferences of different coaching networks and plugged into the industry and coming back with that information and sharing it in sales meetings and having accountability in your team, that's a massive value. Two totally different people that can both have equal successes in, in recruiting and growing a team, I believe.

Absolutely.

I mean I, I look at myself and I think we can all look at ourselves somewhat objectively. Pre 2020I was, you know, I was not a great manager. I was too deep into my files. My systems are all over the place. I was working 14 hours a day. You got to move that stuff out of the way and really be able to focus on your LOS and your value. Can't be. I have an office with ample parking Right.

A million people have that.

I. I think that there's. There's a. And I've seen this play out, right? Like, I've seen it happen over and over again. There is almost a. A roadmap, if you will. If this is the journey that you want to go down, that you follow.

Right.

I think it starts with what is your why? What is driving you to do this? We touched on this a little bit. It can't be all money like it. There's got to be some give back to it. There's got to be some, you know, you wanting to put ripples in the pond and. And help originators.

Ooh, ripples in the pond. You're bringing the wood today, brother.

Yeah, man. So. So what's your why? Like, I can tell you, when I went to launch my branch, my why was to help as many loan officers grow their business as possible. Because someone had sewn into me and I wanted to give back, and I wanted to build something that was bigger than myself to create a legacy that my children could come into and take over if they so desire.

Right?

So I had a very clear defined why before I ever started talking about, hey, let me go get some loan officers. And I think that's where it starts. And then from there, you got to make sure. To your point, Dave. You got to make sure that your business is dialed in, your team is dialed in, you're running efficiently, you're not a dumpster fire every day, and things are smooth because otherwise you're not going to have the time to provide that servant leadership that we're talking about. And then go ahead.

I'm gonna say you also have to enjoy it. You actually have to enjoy.

You have to. You have to want to do it. You have to love. I love. Like, I geek. I've told you guys this, right? Like, when. When I can help someone come in and we've doubled their business and refined their systems, and we've given them 30 hours a month back, and their kids are coming up saying, thanks for giving me my dad back. Like, that's special.

That's powerful.

Right?

Um, so those are the first steps, and then the third piece is you have to know who you're trying to help, who your target is, what loan officers align with, how you're doing it and what you're trying to do. Because not every loan officer is a fit. And that's cool. That's okay. It's not supposed to be right, but some of the worst hires I've made were because recruiting is A grind, guys. It's tough and you get so excited that you have someone interested you. If you don't have your criteria defined, you make a hire that doesn't fit with your core values and how you're leading and managing, and it's a bad hire. Well.

So I think that's a good roadmap to kind of get some foundational groundwork to be able to move forward with this journey, if that's what you're looking for.

Think of all the bad hires the three of us have made. We all knew. We all knew they were bad hires, but we wanted the kill, we wanted the win and just hope it worked out. And we knew it was round peg and square hole, but we did it anyways.

Though I was definitely surprised by some.

There's a few surprises, but, you know, a lot of times the majority happen. That's going to happen to everyone out here because as Dave said, you want the killer. And recruiting is a grind. Like, so when you get that nibble right, it's like fishing when you get that nibble and then it turns into a bite and you know you got a monster on the line. Like, it may be fish. You don't even. Like you're not even going to eat it.

Right.

But you want to land it.

Yeah. Well, we always say some of the best hires were the people we did not hire.

Yeah. Some of our best wins, some of our best. Some of our biggest. Some of our biggest wins were the people we didn't hire. Yeah, a few, A few names just rolled through my mind.

Well, sometimes it's, it's. And sometimes it's just not a fit, you know, I mean, you have to, you know, whether you're a loan officer or you're a branch, you kind of have to align with your company, align with the values, align with the direction, align with the products, the initiatives, the leadership, the culture. Because when all that stuff's aligned, like, that's when the success happens. Like whenever you're fighting against it or are not behind the company or see things differently or they do it like this and they should do it like that. Like, you know, that's not, that's not an environment that you're going to go and be uber productive in.

I agree.

You don't have to toe the company line on everything, but you have to be aligned on most. And we've chatted about this before, no company, no regional SVP is going to do all the heavy lifting for you. You need to play an integral role in it. They're Just not going to bring people into your branch for you. Our philosophy is, you know, we'll source some for some people, but generally our branch managers take lead on it and we help close it, help nurture it and play a role. But it's got to be a two way street. It just company doing it.

I think that's really well said, Dave. Where, where our partnership really gets strong. And I don't want to get too specific, but it's when you have that lead, right, when you have that relationship that you fostered in your market, we have the platform that is attractive, that provides benefit and value, you know, comparatively speaking to other companies. And then we assist with building the relationship and bringing that to fruition. So that's a big win.

Right.

And we see that work really well. We've talked a lot guys about what it is, you know, kind of what the plan looks like, maybe why you're not recruitable. Let's talk about the actual like nuts and bolts of recruiting. Like so I'm, I'm a branch manager. I've decided this is what I want to go down. I've got my why I feel like I'm pretty recruitable. I'm aligned with my company. I'm ready to go and work to make that first hire.

How do you attract the right people? Like what, what do you, what's the next step? Like what do you do to, to get that first fish on the hook instead of just chasing everyone?

Well, I would hope you have some contacts, I would hope you have some industry contacts and people that you know that you want to reach out to. And that's, that's really a good start.

That's a good start.

A plan, you know, you need a plan. You need, you need a business plan. You also need the devote. Some recruiting isn't like I'll do it when I feel like it. It's, I'm going to time block this for 90 minutes or two hours a day and hit the phones. That's number one. Number two, you need some business intelligence. I remember recruiting 10 years ago, maybe eight years ago, you had a sense of what someone did and then like you're, you're verifying that with like a spreadsheet they hand wrote with loan amounts in the name and then a W2 right now we have all that business intelligence on a very granular level.

Or someone tells you, yeah, I'm like 60 FHA and all the rest conventional. And it turns out when they come on board, they're, they're holding a sign at A meeting. They're the number one, you know, FHA lender for that state.

100% bond. I do nothing but govy loans. And they come on in there, 100% bond. Well, it's govy loans. No, it's bond loans. It's different. It reminds me, I love what you said because, listen, college football season's about to kick off and I'm a huge college football fan, right?

Florida.

Gators. Go Gators. It's funny. We're talking about recruiting, and it is, guys. It's. It's not seasonal. It's. It's ongoing, constant, consistent little chunks of time equal great big results.

And we had a coach at Florida not long ago, a guy named Dan Mullen. Pretty, pretty famous coach, you know, was at Florida when we won some natties. And one of the things that was the nail in his coffin at his time at Florida, we were in the middle of the season. Someone asked him a question about recruiting. Now this is college football recruiting. But they asked him a question, question about recruiting. And he said, it's the football season right now. When it's recruiting season, we'll talk about recruiting.

Something to that effect.

Right.

And done. Donors were done. It was pretty much a nail in his coffin, and he was out of here. So if you're a branch manager and you're going to go into recruiting, know that the recruiting season is always. You are always recruiting.

Tom brought up a good point, too. When you recruit, you could be recruiting the same people for 15 years. It's about building relationships. Right. And it's not everyone's going to be a good fit for that season of their career or maybe your company at that time. But it's constantly building relationships. It's constantly staying in touch with people. Not like in a creepy, you know, sleazy, salesy type of way.

It's, you know, building genuine, genuine trust and rapport with other loan officers throughout the industry.

Yeah. And if you have those contacts, I would really initiate there before you even go and say, I'm going to go hire a recruiter. Just start making, you know, five outreaches a week, something minimal that you can manage. It's not going to be really disruptive to your business. See how it's kind of building. You should have your value propositions in line. And, you know, sometimes it's just first off getting out and saying, hey, I'm looking to grow my team. Because, you know, you'll see somebody leave and go to another company.

And if you ask them, oh, man, why didn't you Check with me. Well, they'll be like, well, I didn't know you were, I didn't know you were hiring. You know what I mean? Like, if you're not out there saying that you're hiring and I'm growing my team, like nobody's going to come be like, hey Robert, I'm wondering if, if you're looking to add a great loan officer to your team, like that, that doesn't happen like that, you know, but when you're out there saying, hey, I'm looking to grow my team, this is what we do, this is what my team does, you know, this is what we're looking for. This is all that you, you know, then, then the door is open and you, you get those calls. Then when you're doing that, when you're, when you're, when you're active and that, and it really takes that, that commitment. I remember someone had asked us, asked me, you know, six months ago why we were having some, some, some success. And I said, you know, it really just, it takes an organizational commitment towards recruiting. It's not just at the branch level.

You need an organ. You have a, have to have a process. And, and no matter how, yes, at a branch level you do, you do need your company in some way. Because there's not all, but many recruits, they, they think you're phenomenal. They're like, okay, he's, he's great or she's great. Now what about the company and how can I know that they're going to be there? Because I don't want to come there and they leave in, in two years and you know, or they, you know, look at that person. They've been at a different place every two years. Like they're not even building relationships in their own company.

They're picking up and leaving themselves. And you know, how do you, how can you be so sure they're going to be there? They're not even aligned with their company in this process, you know, So I think it takes that, that commitment of building a process out, you know, of, of what it is you're offering, how you're going to go about reaching them once you do. What, what is it that you're going to cover your dog and pony or whatever it is and, and what's your follow up systems that are going to be in place? Because there's not, you, it's not like 1, 2, 3, close and recruiting, you know, it's, it's not like that.

Yeah, yeah.

When you ask an agent, give me a deal, you don't ask a recruit like, give me a deal and let's see, it doesn't work like that. You know, it's, it's easy to commit to, hey, let me try working with you as a loan officer. It's a whole nother thing to let me go in the system. Change my nmls, change my email, change my phone number, change every bit of marketing, throw away the 37 polos that I have with that company, you know, on it, and, and go get, you know, all this new stuff because I'm gonna go join that team. Like, you know, it, It's a lot.

It's a lot and, and it needs to be revered and put on. I mean, you're asking people to trust you with their livelihood, you know, so you need to, you need to go into it with that level of reverence and, and dedication and attention and sincerity.

Right.

You know, if, if we were to say, hey, what's one thing you would tell anyone when they're recruiting? The one piece of advice you would give them this would be mine, Unsolicited, but be sincere and honest. They may not like the answer, but, but tell them the truth. There's nothing worse than blowing smoke or, or spinning something. Because these originators guys, when they land with you, they're gonna, they're gonna know it within 37 seconds.

Right?

Like if you blow smoke, it's not gonna end well for you. Because the reality that we know as leaders and that anyone who's ever recruited, knows as a leader is all this work that goes into recruiting and then they onboard with you. That's the beginning of the relationship. That's just where it is starting. But because now you have to get them on board, you have to get them trained, you have to, you have to continually continue to recruit your people every day to retain them and make sure that their needs are being met and that they're being taken care of. Managing and leading your team of people is very similar to being married to your spouse. You have to take care of their needs daily and make sure that you're providing for them and giving them the emotional support and the love and the dedication and all of those things. Because if not, please believe they're getting phone calls every day.

Yeah, someone that's promising them all the things that you're not doing that you said you were going to do.

So you're saying that you stop sending that 90 day rate sheets.

Just, just put on a flyer, Dave. So guys, given that I just gave my piece of unsolicited advice I'm now going to ask your one piece of advice. So you got that branch manager out there who's listened to this episode and saying, you know, I'm going to do this. Today's the day, my path forward. This is my journey. What's your one piece of advice to. Advice to give them to. To take out of the gate?

My one piece of advice, and I'm not being flippant, I'm being serious. Don't hire assholes. Because if you hire an, they're going to make your life miserable. And that's our number one rule. They'll make your life miserable from the entire. For the entire time they're with you. And it's probably not going to be long because they're going to be miserable anywhere they go. So if they show you who they are, believe them during the recruiting process or you know them by reputation within the industry, that's who they are.

They're not going to come to your. Your branch and all of a sudden have a lobotomy and change overnight.

Dude, it's so funny that you say that. I remember recruiting a guy, and in our first call, a recruiter had set us up with him. First call, I had his work history, right? And he had been with like eight companies in the course of two years, right? So first of all, I didn't know why the recruiter had set him up on my calendar because that's just a massive red flag. But I asked him about it out of the gate. I was like, hey, can you tell me about your. Your prior work history? Looks like you've, you know, you moved around a little bit. And he goes, ah, what is this? It's our first date. And on your first date, do you ask how many sexual partners the person has had? Why are you asking me this?

Whoa.

I was just like, well, I mean, maybe, but maybe not. I don't. It's a fair question, but it's a fair question. We're not talking about your sexual partners. And I didn't go to a second call with him, obviously. And so, like, three weeks later, he's. He's calling me like, why, why haven't we set up a sexual call or a sexual call, A second call. And I'm like, really, dude? So I love the don't be assholes rule.

And guys, it's important, I think, to just elaborate on this a little bit more. Everybody's not a fit, and that's okay. We have a unique dynamic here with the three of us. Like, there are people that I Don't mesh with as well as Dave does or Tom does and vice versa, right? So maybe it's not a fit for one of us, but it is a fit for one of the others. I can promise you, if there's a loan officer that calls one of us and, or calls us and all three of us see that name, and we're just filled with dread because we know that the other end of that call is just asshole, that person's not going to be here very long.

Life's too short. We don't have the time. People don't take direction. People can't take honest looks at themselves. So, Tom, if I stole your number one piece of advice, I'm sorry.

Yeah. Now you know. So assuming that, you know, you feel like you're in the right place to recruit, you align with your company, you've got your value, your value propositions are. Are down, and you feel, like, confident to go recruit, you know, if you're not there, then you probably should hang tight and start to fix that stuff. But assuming that's the place you're in and you, you want to grow and, and you want to recruit, you know, I think the first thing you want to. You want to do is define, like, visualize what you want your team to look like. You know, don't just say, I want to add los. You know, you have to visualize.

You have to say, I visualize me and a team of six originators that are collaborating like this, that are having sales meetings, that are creating competition, that are out in the community united that are, you know, that we, you know, we build systems like this and keep them out. Like, what do you vision, what do you. What kind of loan officer do you want? What. How do you want them to conduct themselves? Go about business. Because if you simply just want to, like, I'm looking to see how many license I can get hung here. That's really, really easy. You can go get a lot of people to hang their license with you, but that's going to be a detriment. So, like, define your team.

Visualize that dream about that. And, and that's what you have to go after, right? You know, you have to go after people that. Because what you want the, what you want your team to look like, there's people out there that they want to be on a team that looks like that. So you have to kind of really create that, that create that environment. So that's my recommendation, is to really get an understanding of your target, what you want your team to be, what you want it to look like and start to do those things. Now if you have one loans in your team, start to do a weekly sales meeting, start to things that you say you're going to do. When you have six originators, you'll see you create more stories that you know will help you, you know, close the deals with some people that are really wanting to see success on your team. The next thing is it's a long game and, you know, focus on conversations and how many, you know, how many people you can, you know, add in.

I think start small, don't start investing a lot of money in it. I mentioned like five people a week, three people a week, 10 people a month, whatever it is, make outreaches to people you know, let them know you're looking to build your team, what you're looking to do, and then have a way of staying in front of that and consistently following up and checking in. If you did that alone and if you called 10 people a month for the next 10 months and then checked in with those people every other month or so and you're having real valuable conversations with them, you'll, you'll be adding LOS to your team. If you're having successes and creating stories along the way, I believe that.

I love, I love what you said, Tom, about, you know, making sure that the platform's aligned and that you have the, the, you know, the foundation that's recruitable. So a lot of great ideas. Thanks everyone for joining us today and, you know, just diving into what it really takes to recruit and lead. This market's dynamic, it's changing. So the relationships are the key. If you're a branch manager out there waiting for your company to do the heavy lifting, probably starts with you. You gotta, you, you have to participate in your own success.

Right.

Building a strong team isn't about just the right pitch. It's getting the alignment and the accountability and being someone worth following. That's a big piece of it. So thanks so much for joining in. Whether you're growing a team or switching teams, we hope this episode challenged you and gave you tools to move forward with with some clarity. If you have any questions or comments, we'd love to chat with you. Hit us up. As always, thanks for tuning in to lending leadership with the mortgage pros.

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