This week on Should I Care? we (Sophie Griffiths & Ruthie Walmsley) are back with the final Launch Diaries, & we get into what happens when the launch plan meets real people, real feedback & real numbers, and whether changing it halfway through is the smart call or the flaky one (Plus a Gothenburg spa review first.)

Most of us plan a launch like a straight line, & then someone says something in a DM, or the numbers land differently to how we pictured them, & we either dig in because we said we would or bin the lot. This is the final Launch Diaries, recorded with one of us mid-sprint & the other just out the other side of a 12-month programme launch, & neither plan looks quite like the one we started with.

The numbers were good on both sides & we still managed to find plenty to wrestle with.

In this episode:

• The 1 post that brought in 28 of Ruthie's 65 sign-ups, & why a storytelling post doing that surprised her
• The price objections Ruthie never saw coming, from about 15 people who took the time to message, & the reply she wanted to send but didn't
• The comment from Sophie's husband that sent her to a café on a Monday morning to rewrite her sales page
• Project 33: the extra 33K one mastermind client needed before the end of the year, & what it did to the way Sophie thinks about selling all the time
• The launch Sophie had planned for after the sprint, & the 2 reasons she's swapped it for something else

New episodes every Tuesday.

Follow Sophie: @sophiegriffithsco & Ruthie: @firstpersonnarrative

When you're ready, here's the next step:

Outrageous – for established women coaches and service providers who want one offer designed to hit 6 figures without them being the engine of every sale. [Find out more]

Show notes links:

Ruthie's Bloody Good Story Club: https://ruthiefpn.myflodesk.com/wait2

Sophie's SuperFans Sprint https://sophiegriffiths.co/superfans-sprint

Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Should I Care?

with me, Sophie Griffiths.

And me, Ruthie

How are you doing?

I'm out of

Oof!

so I'm feeling loosey-goosey and, fancy free.

How are

Yeah, I also feel really good this week.

I'm running my sprint this week, so I am in sprint mode, which I have to

say is, my favorite mode to be in.

I really enjoy… my ADHD just thrives on, it's five days, it's intense.

I'm, , getting questions in the Telegram group.

I'm, , having to, like, think on my feet, respond to people.

, Honestly, it's just, , this is my dream.

But also, it is totally unsustainable for me to be doing it long term, which

is why I love the, five-day thing.

yes, I'm living my best life right now.

Yeah

Can we please have, for our regular listeners, of which we have, we do

have our regular listeners that like to keep us informed, can we please

have an update of, your European spa

oh my God.

Yeah.

So went to Gothenburg last weekend, based on a viral, Instagram reel that we'd seen.

it looks amazing.

It's like 27th floor spa in this, big old hotel.

, It's not old, super modern.

So it looked cool.

there's great views, super cool pool.

There's inflatables in the pool.

I mean, hello.

So I'm like, "I'm in." Then when they actually send you it, the

details and you're like, "Oh, this is, oh, this is even better than I

thought." So there was three levels.

There was like the chill level, which had a, big hot pool, jacuzzi pool thing,

great views with like steam room sauna, some chill beds, day beds, proper beds.

Everywhere was a bed.

There's not like a metal recliner in sight.

Everything was furnished.

Then you go upstairs to the party zone, like the party spa area.

And when you're like, "Oh, I'm sorry. tell me more about this." There's

a glitter ball in the ceiling.

There's a pool with inflatables.

And cocktails are highly encouraged.

There's people sitting around an open fire drinking.

We got lunch included, which was delicious.

Ate it on a day bed.

. And then the third level was an outdoor pool.

which again, stunning views.

Lovely.

it was just so nice.

And then we spent the weekend in Gothenburg, which none of us had been.

I wouldn't say it's it's not a city where you'd be like, "Oh my God,

it's so pretty." It's not not pretty, but it wasn't like wildly pretty.

But it was quite small, really manageable.

We walked everywhere.

The thing that stood out for me, which is what I'm looking for in a mini break,

was the food and drink was outstanding.

I can't tell you.

We ate the most insane food, we drunk the most incredible drinks, and it was

just, yeah, it was just really chill.

It was lovely

Do you know, glad you said this, Soph, because I have this thing where

don't have the same reaction to iconic tourist spots that other people have.

So Whatever it is I'm supposed to feel when I'm at some sort of,

historic monument, don't feel it.

It doesn't happen.

So entirely judge my experience somewhere on food, drink, and lovely little

Lovely little shops.

Yeah

Lovely little shops that I can buy some sort of knick-knack, you know?

Can I buy something that I, probably wouldn't buy anywhere else?

Ah, love it.

So I'm like, "Oh my God, I absolutely love this place." And

when people are like, "Oh, did you go and see the doobie da doo doo?"

I'm like, "No, but I had this cinnamon bun that was life-changing." I love a

city break or any sort of breakaway And to be honest, for me as well, preferably

Instagrammable, I want it to look nice.

I'm here for the aesthetics.

but yeah, I'm so with you on the food and drink front.

It really makes or breaks

Yeah.

And me too, and that really luckily I was with other people that felt the same.

And we genuinely at one point said, " This is ridiculous.", I'm

really glad there's not well-known things that we should go and see.

So there's no guilt.

Like Gothenburg's not really a city where there's like loads

of things that you have to see.

We went to the fish market, which is in a really beautiful, building.

but because there's an outdoor champagne terrace, you know?

We were just like, it's really nice not to have that pressure to see stuff,

and we could literally just mooch.

On the Saturday we just literally wandered through the lanes, like you say.

We just went in all the little shops.

oh God, there were so many lovely shops, and yeah, ate massive

cinnamon buns the size of our heads.

And, yeah, literally just wandered, sat outside, on this incredible terrace

bit having a glass of wine in the afternoon, in the sunshine, just chilling.

Just relaxing.

And then on the Sunday we did something that none of us had done in so long.

We went shopping, which is a bit wild, isn't it?

But like I don't really go shopping to shops anymore.

, I don't know, for me anyway, maybe it's just the area where I

live, the Zara and H&M are always better in Europe, in my opinion.

Great

so we went to Zara, Mango, H&M.

We found a few shops we'd never heard of.

We were trying stuff on.

Honestly, I felt like about 14 again.

you know, when you used to go shopping and just try loads of stuff on?

I was like, "We've just got all the time in the world, guys.

I'm just gonna try this top on." Like I don't know what's

happening to me right now

Honestly, sounds just perfect.

One of my favorite city breaks we ever went on, I don't know if it counts as a

city break, but Tone actually, after he proposed, had booked a surprise trip for

the day after he proposed to go to Venice.

Now, obviously Venice, lots of historical moments, but what I loved

about it is that a lot of them were anchored to some sort of food or drink.

So we went to this very famous square.

Forgive me, I don't know what it was called because, as I say, I don't have

that connection with history in that way.

But there was this really famous coffee shop where you could get,

amazing coffee, tea, and little cakes.

So we went there.

Loved it.

And also Harry's Bar,, is where the, Oh, what's it called when

it's, peach juice and champagne?

Bellini?

Bellini.

Oh my God, thank you.

My brain, perimenopause.

Sorry, everybody.

so Harry's Bar was, , famous in Venice.

We went there.

We paid an astronomical amount for this tiny little peach Bellini.

It was sensational.

It was everything I wanted.

Glanced at some buildings I was walking past.

Yeah, great.

But yeah, that's what I'm here for.

I'm so glad.

This sounds amazing.

, You could probably go viral with your reporting of

I know.

You could probably do a

I should do, shouldn't I?

I should do a sit down review.

I know.

it was incredible.

I was, I would highly recommend it.

Gorgeous

But now I'm back.

So I came back, and so while I was away, I was still in launch.

Still launching.

I feel like I've been saying that for months now.

Still launching.

So I was launching, the Fuck Yes Group Offer Sprint.

and so emails were going out.

I had prerecorded some content, some talk to camera reels, and they went out.

One totally bombed, one did pretty well, so that's always nice.

And then on the Monday I got back, it closed at midday, so

then that was everything done.

I'm not gonna lie,, I'd done day one content before I went, so that

was all good to go, but I had not done any of the other content.

So Monday was pretty hot.

I was like, "Oh my God." So then spent the morning, doing all the

sales conversations, , making sure the countdown, you know, the emails were

going out, being visible, et cetera.

And then spent the afternoon recording content for the rest of the sprint.

However, what I would say is, in my defense, A, I work well under pressure.

B, and I'd highly recommend this, here's a sneaky little tip for you.

I did an onboarding form when people joined, because, A, to start with

I did it because I wanted to know why they joined so I could use it

in my messaging for the launch, so I could start to, pull it through.

And then also I wanted to know what they wanted out of it to try and make sure

that, what I was messaging outwardly is what I thought I was delivering.

Do you know what I mean?

I was like, "I don't want people coming into this with, a different view of

what they're gonna get." but what it meant was that was incredible for me

to then use to shape the content, to make sure that actually what people

wanted is what I was delivering.

because in a sprint, you can only deliver a certain amount of content.

So I was like, all of this stuff is what I work with clients on for six months, so

it's not like I can deliver everything, so I needed to know which bits.

So that worked really well.

And then, everything closed up, and then I've been running it this week.

So I think today.

We're gonna do our final launch diaries, aren't we?

And we're gonna do our launch recap.

our little,

Yeah

dive into what happened, how it went, and yeah, any learnings,

All the

All the looks.

Yeah, so many.

Do you want me

Go on, you go first

okay.

So I was running, a launch for my Bloody Good Story Club,

which is a 12-month container.

I think a lot like a membership, but it's a 12-month commitment,

which I'll come to actually.

And my live event was an open week.

So it was a week where you could come in and sample the experience of

being in the Bloody Good Story Club.

And the promotion I did for it was media.

and for context, I've got, of today, 1,892 followers, so not a big audience at all.

And, I've got 400 people, on my mailing list.

But I didn't have that many before I started promoting it, so I've gained about

60 people onto my email list through just being more active really and, talking

more on socials and stuff like that.

So yeah, completely organic.

Didn't run any ads.

and I had… Hang on, let me just pull up my little document.

I had 65 people sign up for open week by the end of promoting

it, which I was so excited by.

It was way more than I thought I would get.

a good amount of those, I'd say 28, I think, came in from one social post,

which was a storytelling so- social post where I basically said, "I'm shitting

myself, and I'm forcing myself to do this." Which I was really pleased to

see that it actually… 'Cause sometimes those sorts of storytelling posts

perform really well, but they don't do the thing that you want them to do.

So they're good for eyes on, but they're not getting people to comment the keyword.

But actually, loads of people commented the keyword, and so

that was a really nice start.

I think in our previous launch diaries, my second post was, like, fucking crickets.

so promoted that.

I felt really proud of myself for committing to promo even after some of

the posts bombed, some of them didn't.

But I just kept going, and I was really just trying to keep in the

effort of, no, just keep doing it.

And like I said, by the end, I'd got 65, sign up.

Thrilled.

There was a variety of ways they could engage throughout the week.

So they got three prompts delivered to their email on the Monday.

On the Wednesday, they could come to a live workshop, which is a version

of the live workshop I do in the club.

on the Thursday, they could come to Write Club, which is our co-working,

and then, by the Friday, they could send me something for feedback,

like for a bit of feedback.

29 people showed up live to the workshop, so that was 45% of signups.

What's that like?

That's good.

Is that bad?

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty good.

I would say anything… If you're running to a cold audience,

anything over 30% is good.

If you're running to a warm audience, yeah, anything over 40%.

So 40 to 50%'s really good.

Yeah.

Okay, brilliant.

welcome

and then in terms of how many of those then converted to become members, 19.

So I think that's about 30%, conversion rate, which I'm really,

really, really, really thrilled with.

Obviously, they are all warm.

I don't think there was anyone who joined who I hadn't had some sort of

engagement with prior to open week.

I don't think there was anyone that joined that was, , new to list, new to me.

Everyone, I'd had some sort of, previous engagement with.

and then eight of the 19 joined using a waitlist discount code.

So they were already on the waitlist from me talking about it previously and just

sort of sharing about it on day to day.

So yeah, nearly half of the people that came through were waitlist.

and then it officially, this, I was just so excited by this, and I

know I shouldn't be because it's a vanity metric, but it ticked into

being like a five-figure launch.

So it was, in total, obviously, know, it's for reoccurring

revenue that, I wanted this.

some people paid in full.

I think about 3,960 pounds worth was paid in full.

and then the rest is revenue collected monthly.

but yeah, the total value came in at 12 something, which was

just, I was so excited by.

So yeah, that's like the numbers side of things.

but yeah, I was so, so chuffed with those numbers.

I know I spoke about, when, , I was like, "Oh my God, if 60 people

sign up," and , I did have to give myself a bit of a bitch slap

. Normally launches, and certainly launches I've worked on, bigger

launches tend to have a U-curve.

So they've got like the early people that come in, and then quiet, quiet, quiet, and

then a load of people came in at the end.

My last day, I think one person came in, so there were various points where

I really had to battle with my inner monologue of I was waiting for the

final flourish, and it didn't come, and then I was like sitting with

feelings of disappointment a little bit.

But then I was like, "What am I on about?" I, wanted to get-

another 11, I did more than that.

I nearly did that twice.

But yeah, I think I learn a lot about my own mindset when it comes to this

sort of thing, of like wrestling with the various points of disappointment,

and then the various points of euphoria where I was just getting

totally carried away with myself.

but I will say I had a really good time.

I did have a lovely time doing it.

So that was good for me to learn, because seen and been a part of a

lot of launches where the person at the end is like panting for breath

and really nervous system exhaustion.

I didn't feel that

Yeah.

I mean, I just think it's absolutely fascinating, and I think it's such a great

insight again, for regular listeners, if you haven't listened before, you

knew you kind of wanted to launch.

You were really on the fence when we started, like end of August.

You're like, "I don't know.

I've got so much on.

I don't know if I'm gonna put this on my plate or not.

It feels like a lot.

I don't know what to do with the launch event.

Feels really hard, but just not really clear." And then you were

like, because you said it on the podcast, you were like, "Well, I feel

like I have to bloody do it now."

And then you did it, and you got 19.

, people in.

19, basically 20.

but with your 11, so was that 30 now?

Yeah, 30.

so there's

That's, how incredible.

And it does just show, doesn't it?

Like you said, it's really uncomfortable.

There are so many mindset battles you have to push through.

you are so experienced in launches, maybe not your own, but in launch

strategy, in launch delivery, in launch, running effective launches,

you have so much experience.

And yet, it's really interesting, we've talked about this before, for you to have

to run it yourself feels very different because it's so much more personal.

But, you kept going and what an incredible result you got.

Is there anything, any, objections or things that came up that

were really interesting for you?

Yeah.

And I think I spoke with you just, like, when we were, like, generally

chatting about it as it was going on.

surprise for me, something that I wasn't expecting, was how many

price objections there were.

and that was not people saying, "It's too expensive," it was people saying, "I just

can't justify the spend at the moment.

I just haven't got the income." I think that in complete honesty, when I

priced it out of fear, of making it so easy for people to make this decision.

I didn't spend an awful lot of time thinking about the value or,

how much time I would spend on it.

I probably didn't do all of those calculations if I'm completely honest,

because in that mode where I was like, "If I don't do it, I'm not gonna do

it." So I was like, just fucking do it." and that was obviously in April.

then I did have a conversation with myself a little bit, as to whether to

change the price for this launch, this September, October launch, and I didn't.

so when people started talking to me about price, I was just really shocked

because I just thought, "Oh my God, really?" and it was a lot of people.

It wasn't two or three people saying it to me, which, I think there's

always gonna be people that think the, the price point doesn't fit them.

say, of the 60-odd people that signed up, there was probably 15

or so that took the time to message me, which I'm so grateful for.

Like, how lovely of them to say, "I've had an amazing time at open week.

I so wish that I could afford this right now.

I so wish that I had the income," or, "Unfortunately, I'm paying for

something else right now, and I just can't justify paying for something

else." And I just wasn't expecting it, if I'm completely honest.

I think I thought I'd priced it at a point that made it too easy, and I was surprised

that there were still, price objections.

So that was something.

there were objections about it being a 12-month program,

but I knew they were expected.

I know that people want it to be opt out.

and actually, I did have a conversation with a colleague, somebody I know

from online, whose opinion I really, really respect, who really knows

her shit,.. not about joining.

She was just, talking about the launch in general.

And she was like, "Why don't you just make it a membership?

You'd get so many people in." and I know that's true.

But I was really trying to stay authentic to, one, I don't believe

that's right for this program.

Because I think people would opt out at the first time they didn't post.

And actually, my first cohort, there's a few women in there who fall off the wagon

regularly, they're in the club and because they're still paying for it, they come

back on, and there's proof that works.

then also on the second hand, I want reoccurring revenue

that doesn't feel thirsty.

And memberships, I've worked in loads of incredibly successful memberships.

There's no getting away from that, that they are thirsty, thirsty bitches.

Because when people…

You've got people leaving.

The churn is such a preoccupation.

You have to be so on how you're retaining people.

You have to be so on how you're also then replenishing … And I just don't think

that's what I want, and so I wanted to build something that didn't have that.

I'm just one person.

I don't think I could manage that amount of constant attention for bringing

new people in and looking after people that are leaving and managing that.

So yeah, they was probably my two key learnings.

One was, , I was just surprised that, you know, and that's not to

criticize the people that said that.

I really respected that, and I never want someone to stretch themselves to

a point that it feels uncomfortable.

That feels really icky for me.

it was just something I hadn't really thought about those conversations.

and yeah, I did expect the 12-month one, but I was quite

happy to stay strong on that.

I thought, "No, I'm, I need to stay clear on, A, I believe it works for , what

we're trying to do for the transformation.

I think it's important ' cause it's habit-forming.

and secondly, it needs to work for my business as

Yeah.

I think it's absolutely fascinating.

So I remember really clearly having a conversation with a coach years ago when

I was, doing my first group program.

And I'd set it up to be,, I think three or four months or something like that.

And I said to her , "Oh,,, I think people need, I think they need longer.

This is a bigger transformation, but I'm worried that they don't want to commit to

six months." how do you get that balance between, what you think people will pay

for and want to commit to versus, what you think they actually need? And she was

like… I'll always remember this. She was like, "Look, ultimately as the expert, you

have to put yourself in that position of,

Think of yourself as a doctor or a physio or someone.

If someone comes to you and says, 'I've broken my arm,' you say, 'Okay, you

need six weeks in a cast, then you need six weeks of physio, and then you need,

six weeks of whatever else.' They might not do it, they might not want to do

it, but ultimately you are the expert telling them, 'If you want to heal in

the best way possible, this is the plan.

This is my prescription for you, because I have the knowledge that you don't.'" And

ultimately, it's like that's what you are doing as the kind of expert leader of this

group. You are saying, "If you want this transformation that I am, , promising,

showing you, you really want, I am telling you that six months is my recommendation.

You might want to do it in three.

You might come into the group and do it in three.

But ultimately, six months is my recommendation based on all of my

experience in this area, which is extensive." And I just think it was

a real shift for me because was at a real point in my business where I was

like, "I'll just do whatever I need to do to get money, whatever clients

need." oh, if they want a call in the evening, I'll do a call in the evening.

If they want to do it over three months, I'll, condense it over three months.

I'll just put more into it and make it a three-month program.

It was such a shift for me in that mentality of being like, actually no,

people are coming to me wanting that safety and security and knowledge, and

therefore that's what I need to give them.

Not like, "Oh, whatever works for you. I'll just make it however long you

want." So I think I totally respect that decision and of actually, I believe

that you need to commit to something for 12 months because it helps you get

that habit, keep going, drop off, come back in, it's there for the whole year.

And also, my whole approach is about creating a group that actually

works for you and your life.

And I totally hear you about the churn and memberships and, just paddling

to stay still all the time, feeling like, "Oh, five people have left. I

need to get five people back in just to make the same amount next month."

And it can feel really distracting and really stressful, and which is

why generally a lot of my clients don't end up… They, a lot of

my clients either run, like long commitment memberships or back-end

memberships are also really popular.

So bring someone in a course- And then have a backend membership for

clients because there tends to be a lot less churn and it tends to be less

distracting because ultimately it's never gonna be your main income source.

It's more like another layer of income

Yeah.

And I think as well, it took such a lot of my nervous system do this.

it really wasn't comfy.

and I dipped my toe in April, And yeah, you are 100% right,, I

wouldn't have done it if I hadn't have said it out loud on the podcast.

I know I wouldn't have.

I was ready to back out.

so it took such a lot from my nervous system.

I think I've got to design things that I know I'm such a praise whore I would take

it personally if people left, even if they were re- leaving for really good reasons.

Even after three months, they're like, "By Jove, I've got it. I'm in a great rhythm."

be like, "Oh my God, they hate me." "They hate me. They thought it was rubbish."

Even though they've given me an amazing testimonial, I just don't think I've got

the robustness, in terms of my people pleasing and how I want people to like me.

I just think, I'd find it crushing when people left.

So I think having a definite end date works for me because I'm like,

releasing you back into the wild.

I don't have to feel any certain way about your departure." I think I'm just too

Yeah.

And I think that totally makes sense.

the pricing is interesting, isn't it?

So it's, 67, is it?

Yeah, so it's £60 a month.

If you pay monthly, it's £60.

If you came in on wait list, it's

Okay.

Yeah, it is really interesting, isn't it?

I think people's perceptions of, low ticket offers.

Because the reality is £50 a month, what even is that?

I can't even work that out, divided by four.

£12 a week, something like that.

when you put it like that, I think generally most people,

like you say, they can afford it.

It's that they're not necessarily seeing the value, of it.

And, I think that's what feels hard about the price, isn't it?

'Cause you know the value is so much higher than what

you're even pricing it at.

and I had a bit of a similar moment halfway through my launch as well,

where I was like, "This is insane.

I am literally offering five days where I will help people make shitloads more

money from a group offer, and I'm charging £100 for it." people should be able

to make their money back, within the five days or literally so soon after.

It's probably one or two clients for most people, minimum.

And There's something that is just not clicking right now.

I'm not getting the value across.

I'm not getting my expertise across.

I'm not getting something across.

Because if people really knew what was gonna happen, they

would be flying in their droves.

And that's really hard, I think, that's a real frustration.

It was for me anyway

Yeah, totally.

And I found it hard as well in those conversations to know,

what's the right thing to say here?

And I actually just settled with "I totally understand. at some point you'll

be ready, and I'd love to welcome you then." was part of me where some of the

conversations I was like , I don't know, like you need to market your business.

to be able to afford to do these sorts of things and to have more cash running

through your business, social media is one of the ways that you can do that without

it having a huge cost associated with it.

if you haven't got an ads budget yet, you can't afford to, pay someone to do

it, and yet you're still not doing it.

I was obviously going and having a look around their socials or sometimes I

knew them anyway and I'd be like, "Look, you're not doing it at the minute."

and my instinct is that you could suddenly feel quite a lot more cash

in your business if you were actively talking to your audience a bit more.

. It's difficult because giving that sort of advice in that moment

feels like a sales ploy, and I just didn't feel comfy doing that.

But there was definitely part of me that was thinking at the time, I think this

could be really the way that you do get more money in your business, I really do.

and I've got proof of that from the people that are in there,

but I just didn't want it to feel sleazy, so I just didn't say it.

But I think the money conversation was just one that I wasn't expecting.

It really got me thinking about the free launch element as well, that

actually I was viewing everyone that came in a potential future member.

But actually, I think some people just came in for a bit of a, a reset, I did

say that in my promotion, so I don't know why I had forgotten that I'd said "Look,

just come in. Have a look around." if all you need is a bit of a focus week,

then this is gonna be great for you.

So I think overlooked that I'd said that.

but had , so many lovely emails, like I said, of people saying "Just to say

I'm not joining for , this reason. but it's been amazing and, I really

appreciate your generosity in allowing us to come in, and I think it's

amazing." So I'm really glad I did it.

Already though what's interesting is I was like

So you said something in a previous podcast that I've really tried to hold

on to, which was you talked about how there was, a turning point in your

business, , a year, I think you said, where basically you did something pretty

much every month, where you were just like, "Right, I'm just locked in."

And I obviously haven't done something every month, because I did it in April

and then I did it again in September.

But I was like, "Right, I should try and challenge myself to do something

else before the year end," because I've now seen the difference it can make.

I've seen that I can do it.

straight away, and I've got ideas written down that I did on strategy day with

you, but straight away, even though I've now just got proof, I'm like, "Oh,

no. Too soon. soon." you be bothered?

are people gonna be sick of you?

Is this program idea good enough?

And I'm like, God, how have I immediately pendulum swung.

I was riding high, then two minutes later, as soon as that adrenaline rush

left, I was like, "Oh, maybe not." Cautious, let's be cautious instead.

So strange, like how much mindset plays a part in

Yeah.

I think it's almost everything, isn't it?

I really do think there's something about, once you can get that audacity

to just be like, "So what if they do think that? So what if they do think

it's too soon? So what if, people think, 'Oh, she's going up for another

promotion'?" I think I had this really challenged when, Was it last year?

Yeah, it must have been last year.

In the Mastermind, one of the women in there, we were on a retreat

just after October half term, so it must have been early November.

She basically was like, "I have got to bring in an additional 33K,

before the end of the year on top of my already, pretty punchy month."

So she was already bringing in, what, 15, 20K, and she wanted to bring in

an extra 33K over the two months.

And so There was no one thing she was gonna do.

She was already launching stuff.

She already had stuff- in, in process, and we knew roughly how

much that was gonna bring in.

So there was no, one golden bullet that we were gonna be able to,

lever to bring in this, 33K.

And so instead, what we did was devise, a series of things that she was gonna sell.

So she was gonna package up things and sell, a lifetime offer, or she was

gonna, do something, access to her.

we were trying to do it so it didn't have access to her.

That was, like, a big goal.

But generally, it was like, "Can I sell an extra course? Can I do a focus on

this?" So she basically, from that point through to, end of December, was pretty

much selling something at all times.

She ran workshops, she was selling on email, she sold on socials, and

she had this, really clear goal.

Called it Project 33.

really clear goal.

She needed to just get this 33K.

And I think the biggest thing for all of us, in the Mastermind, and for me as

well, was just, I'm on her email list.

I got all of her emails.

I never once felt like, "Oh, my God.

Shut up.

stop selling to me." I was just like, "Ooh, that's a great angle.

Oh…" she's my client as well, but partly it was just like, it's so interesting

to see that actually I have, I care very little about what other people are

selling. And actually all I'm really interested in is, "Oh, I might want that.

Do I want that or no?

Maybe I'll wait and see if there's something else I want." and she

did it and she was relentless.

She hit it because of course she did.

She's incredible.

But it also, I think for all of us, was just like wow, If you have a goal,

you've just gotta fucking hit it.

It is amazing what you can do.

It is amazing what you can push past mindset-wise and just be like, "I don't

really care what everyone else thinks.

I have to make this money.

I'm just gonna do whatever I need to do to make it." And I think,

yeah, that was just, it will always stick in my mind as just wow, you

actually can do such incredible things when you get out your own way.

'Cause there's no reason why she couldn't be doing that all the time really.

it was a bit scrappy and it was a bit chaotic 'cause it just had to be done,

that selling all the time, but, that is actually just what could be done

And it's like as well, we're running

I know.

Yeah.

Do you

Yeah

So it's like a shop owner saying "Oh, I can't open today." People will be

thinking, "Bloody hell, she's open again.

She's open on a Tuesday." it is such a strange, unique

mentality to online businesses.

Well, I'm sure it's another place where we're like, "Oh,

God, I can't keep selling."

It's like, what else are you gonna do, babe?

You're trying to earn some money here.

you're trying to pay your mortgage, have nice shoes, go on holiday.

And so it is so interesting.

And what I found really, and I know you a personal level, have a massive

bee in your bonnet about it, is like how amazing to hear a woman

naming a financial goal like that.

I was really inspired hearing that story actually, to just have

this number that she was trying to hit … and being unabashed about it.

even I did a social post this morning, and I was like, "Oh, God,

should I mention the fact that I was really pleased that it actually

could be called a five-figure launch?

And should I mention that this has now created over 1,000 pounds of reoccurring

revenue for me?" And I had to sit with it and I was like, "Oh, God," I

felt really wishy-washy about whether it was the right thing to do or not.

But I find it so inspiring.

You talk so much about female finances, and I find that so inspiring.

I'm really lit up when you talk about it.

I'm like, "Yeah, come on." Like I'm ready to like, have a placard

and just like charge at things.

but when it came to putting it in my own content, I was like, "Oh, shall I?" So

I love the idea of setting a financial goal and being like, by this point."

I dunno, there is some audacity attached to it that means

I'm just gonna fucking do it.

So maybe that's what I need to do moving forward, I

Yeah, I think it is that thing, isn't it, of pushing yourself into

it, - for whatever reason, whether it's a financial goal or whatever it is.

But I do think there's just something about having that, back

to the wall, I have got to do this, that makes the mindset stuff

just have to take a backseat.

It just forces it back, doesn't it?

And it's just actually, I can't really care what people think about me.

I can't really care if people decide that I'm just being really thirsty

and I just really want all the money.

Because ultimately, they're not paying my mortgage.

They're not paying my bills and therefore, do I really care?

Is it Brene Brown?

Oh, I'm gonna like really butcher this.

But it's like, I'm just gonna paraphrase.

Don't listen to people that aren't in the arena that you're in.

Do you know what I mean?

So it's like, if other people aren't doing what you're doing, if other

people aren't out there selling and pushing to make more money and

literally, feeding their families, then like they can just fuck off.

I don't really care what you think, Karen.

it might be for you, you're just making like a nice little £500 a month

and you think it's really gross that I talk about how much money I make.

It's like, that's great for you that you don't need the money.

I do.

and I want it.

It's not even like I need it.

I want it.

I want the money.

and I'm willing to do what it takes to get it.

Yeah.

I think that's really inspiring though, and I love to hear it.

on that note, can you tell us about your launch, Soph?

Okay

it gone?

What's the learnings?

say . I'm, like, two-thirds of the way through the planned launch.

So.

I was doing a two-month extravaganza, which was planned before I knew

that my daughter was going to be at home with me, not at school.

in hindsight, not the best timing, but we move.

It's fine.

So I did the workshop, which I had 226 people sign up for the workshop.

first time I had more from ads than I did organic.

when I was doing the workshop promo and the workshop, it

was a real challenging time.

It was literally like those first few weeks, my daughter

wasn't going back to school.

I didn't have a huge amount of capacity.

I found it really tough.

so I didn't do as much warming up of the audience when they came in

from ads as I normally would, which really affected my show-up rate.

So I had 64 come live, which I was still really happy with, like the

number of 64, but, percentage rate is, just under 30%, which is, is fine.

It's pretty standard.

But for me, normally I'm much more like you, it's much more of a warm audience

normally, and so it's normally, 40 to 50%.

so then I did a bonus on the call.

So if you signed up on the call, you got a bonus where you came into the VIP, for a

very small fee rather than the bigger fee.

and five people bought on the call, which I was really, really pleased

about because I've never done really low-ticket launches like this, so this is

all quite a big, learning curve for me.

I've never sold on live.

I've never had, things pinging in as people have been buying.

So that was really nice.

However, afterwards, I was really ill the week that I did it as

well, and I did it on a Wednesday afternoon… I always have a massive,

energy drop . after I do a workshop.

I just find, I just give so much to it, and then there's always

this massive dopamine drop.

I just basically, over the Thursday and Friday, just had this massive

freeze response in my nervous system.

convinced myself that no one else was gonna buy.

I had a lot of feedback from people, which, again, you know, similar to

you, I really appreciate the feedback.

A lot of people who came to the workshop thought that

if you didn't have a group, it would work for you as well.

I don't know where I got my messaging wrong there.

I've been through everything, and I can't really see where I said that.. everything

was take your group from fine to fuck yes.

It, I felt like that implied you had a group that was fine.

so it's good feedback for me.

But a lot of people thought the workshop was gonna help them, create

a great group, not take their current group to being, like, brilliant.

And that was really hard to process quite a lot of feedback in quite

a short amount of time when I was already feeling ill and tired.

And I couldn't quite work out what I'd done wrong.

I felt like I'd done something wrong, which is, such a trigger for me.

Such a trigger for me.

I had to have, a whole therapy session on that.

- Like, why did I react so strongly to that feeling of doing something wrong?

It wasn't even failure.

It was like, "Oh, she's been bad.

She's done something wrong." So that felt really hard, and it felt

really tricky to process all of that, and then would be outwardly

selling and being like, "Oh, great.

Come into the spread.

it's really great, guys," when I was, like, literally in this freeze state,

trying to work out why I was feeling like, i'd, mucked up so badly. and I

hadn't even mucked up that badly. It's just that when … all you're getting

is people saying, "Oh, I would have joined, but I don't have a group.

Oh, . i wish I'd known it wasn't for a group." I had some really direct

feedback saying, "The workshop wasn't what I expected and I was disappointed

because, I thought it was gonna be to help me, build a group rather than grow

a group, and I was quite disappointed And that felt, it felt really hard.

It, honestly, it felt really hard to hear that.

when I told my husband, and this is again, I think we get into

this, online world little bubble.

I was talking to my husband about it and telling him, and he's "Well, you

know, how much did they pay for the workshop?" I was like, "It was free."

He was like, "What?" I was like, "I know.

I know." And, it's hard.

Like I know why.

And the trouble is, I think because we are very honest, we're very open,

I was talking on my socials about the fact that, it didn't quite go

to plan, so I was inviting feedback.

I like the fact that , people feel like they can give me feedback.

The challenge is that when there's not a huge amount of balance the other

way, it feels very hard to process it and then be outwardly selling.

If I could've just gone back in my hole and just processed it and moved

on, I think it would've been okay, but I was like, then had this, horrible

gaslighting in my head I didn't post anything on Thursday or Friday.

I think, I sent the, like, recording email.

That was it.

I didn't sell anything.

and then obviously it's self-perpetuating 'cause then I obviously didn't sell

anything because I'm not selling.

Just go into this, freeze state.

So I took the weekend, we went to a wedding, and talked to my

coach about it, tried to work out in my head what I wanted to do.

And what I decided was that I had this similar challenge in September last year

actually, where I did a launch and it just didn't click in the way I wanted it to.

and didn't feel like inevitable, which was the group at the

time, in the way I wanted to.

And most of it was because I had so many people in my audience that

just weren't ready for the group.

So they just didn't have a group yet.

They wanted a group, they wanted to work with me, they just didn't have one yet.

And I've been trying to solve this problem, how do I solve

this problem, for a long time.

So I was like, do you know what?

I'm just gonna open out the sprint.

I'm just gonna invite people in who don't have a group yet, and I'm gonna see how

it feels to work with people who don't have a group to see if I can help them,

I mean, I know I can help them, but to See how it feels.

so I pivoted on the Monday morning and came in, took myself off to a

cafe actually to work for the Monday.

I was like, "I just need to get out the house.

I need to get away from it all.

I just need to, really dig into this.

I need to write all my emails.

I need to put an update post out.

I need to do everything." Anyway, it triggered loads of conversations,

loads of people who were, like, on the fence or interested.

I extended the early bird deadline for 24 hours.

So instead of closing Monday at lunchtime, I closed at Tuesday

lunchtime just to give me a bit of time to have these conversations.

And then literally over, that period, for, what, just over 24 hours,

the majority of people came in.

So I think I had something like 15 people come in just in those two days.

But they weren't all people that didn't have groups.

So in fact, the majority of the ones coming in actually did have groups.

I think probably partly they just needed, to see me actually selling it.

but also, my energy around it just totally shifted.

I said on the way to their wedding, I went to with my husband, I said to him,

we were talking about it, and I said, I just don't understand, I'm so good.

I'm so good at helping people grow their businesses.

I am so good at making money from groups.

that is really, my superpower." And yeah, even, past clients, so many people

have a group or want a group, and for, what I'm saying is for the early bird

price, which was, like, 97 plus VAT, you can come in for a week, focus on

your group, and work out how you're gonna make more money, with me being

there literally every step of the way.

Why are people not buying this?

I don't understand.

I'm just not getting it across, and that's just so frustrating, and I

can't think how to get it across.

And so he'd seen the signup page for the workshop and the sales page,

and he was like The thing is, babe, that kind of conviction just doesn't

come across in your sales page.

Not that you're not an expert, but he said you're trying to convince people.

He said there's just a lot of convincing.

he's not even in the online space.

He has no idea what he's talking about.

Obviously, he was spot on.

He was just like, "It just feels like you're trying to convince them.

It just goes, on and on and on.

it's good, but it's just , where's this energy?

Where's this, I'm really good at what I do, you should fucking well want to

be in this group energy?" so that was actually really helpful. And so on the

Monday as well, I rewrote the sales page completely. Rewrote it, and was

just like, "Yeah, do you know what?

I can cut half of this out, and I can actually just lead with…" I

think the title now is literally says something like, "If you want to make

more money from your group without 10 times-ing your audience or your

ad spend, I'm your girl." and just that real, yeah, energy around that.

So that really helped.

I wrote loads of really great emails on that day, scheduled them all out,

and just felt really in the rhythm, was having lots of conversations.

Mine was the same as you.

I didn't have the you.

I didn't have the upturn at the end, which , it's weird, isn't it?

So the last few days of that week, I didn't really have any sales.

I had a, a couple on the Tuesday, Wednesday.

I didn't really have any on the Thursday, Friday, or over the weekend.

did a post on the Sunday that was a talk to camera, which talked about the

fact that I've made, oh, I can't even remember what the number is now, over

370K from my groups in the last two years.

And actually,

Casual.

just,

even

I just-

guys, 'cause the money's

Just like rolls in.

It's

just

very hard to count, you know?

And I think the flip of that is my audience is, , oh, I've definitely

got under 7,000 followers, and my email list is under 2,000.

it's not like I've got a, 100,000-person audience.

and so the angle I was talking to is it's not just about visibility, and

I know you agree with this as well.

it's not just about visibility.

It's not just about, churning out trial reels or the going viral or just being

visible for the sake of being visible.

It's actually about building an audience of people that actually want to work

with you and want to buy with you.

that one did quite well.

, And then I got, I think I had two people come in on the last morning,

but it wasn't that U-turn of "Oh, here they all are sitting on

the fence, and I'm gonna, push them over, and suddenly they're all gonna

come flooding in." so I did use ads.

I didn't use ads for the sprint.

I used ads for the workshop.

I would've used ads for the sprint if I could have got my shit together in time.

By the time I'd actually, worked out the angles, I had so many emails to write

and organic posts to sort, I was like, "I just don't have capacity for the ads as

well." I spent £878 on the workshop ads.

and in total, the, sprints made just over 3K.

but that doesn't include taking the ads off, so that's, the

total revenue I made from there.

So if you take off the ad spend, it's like what?

2,200, something like that.

but I am two-thirds of the way through my launch.

So the next point was going to be launching Outrageous, from

this point for after the sprint.

However, I'm just going to do a cheeky little pivot again, for two reasons.

The first reason is actually having conversations with everybody in the

sprint or the people who've come in who are brilliant, and we're, working

through exactly how they can make their offer easier to sell and to make more

money and to actually make it scalable.

And the core thread that just keeps coming back again and again and again

is that they just need to build demand.

they need a bigger audience.

They need to be reaching more people consistently.

and ads are the way that most of them want to do it.

so actually for me, like we do, you absolutely do that in Outrageous,

but Outrageous is about scaling an offer to six figures, and actually

a lot of them are just not at that point where they're ready to do that.

But they do wanna build demand and their, audience.

So I'm actually gonna pivot to launching the Superfan Sprint.

and it's gonna be slightly different, slightly more involved

than it has been in before.

I'm gonna have a community.

I'm gonna have some more Q&A options, and yeah.

So I'm really excited about that.

And the second reason I'm gonna do that is because I'm gonna make an evergreen

offer, that I'm running all the time, and I'm gonna be trialing a private

podcast to warm people up to sell it from.

because at the moment I rely heavily on things that need my time in the moment.

I'm definitely still gonna run workshops.

I really enjoy workshops.

But I need something where people can come in and be nurtured and get

to know me and to understand the Superfan system, to then come into

the Superfan Sprint without having to spend a lot of time with me, because

I just don't have that time anymore.

And it's just a real shift in my business, and I just really need to work out

how sales, can be less reliant on me.

because with my daughter at home, it's just not working how it used to.

So I am shifting that.

And I thought, I'd like your, I think, nice thoughts on this, Ruthie.

Might do like a, I might try build in public series of 'cause I'm

gonna be building the funnels.

I'll build the lead magnet.

I'll be building the ads.

I'll be building the, emails.

I'll be building the podcast.

I'll be building everything to then run this funnel that should

be then working all the time.

so yeah, that's where I'm at.

Lots of pivots, lots of shifting, but, hopefully we'll get there in the end.

I think, hearing you talk… Actually, number one, yes, please, to the build in

Okay

Yes.

Yes to that.

but also I think what I find so, I think inspiring is the right word.

I think inspiring when I hear you talk about that launch is how rooted

you are in listening and, hearing.

It is so easy when you're in a launch to be like, "Well, this is what I've decided

I'm doing, and I'm gonna just keep doing that because that's what I've decided

I'm doing." And that leaving that plan is in some way, I don't know, admitting

defeat or feeling like it's not working.

But twice in your plan you've pivoted, so you were listening to the people

as they were coming in, and so you pivoted to make it include them.

And then you've been listening to what they've been saying as they're taking

part in the sprint, and realized that actually there's something better that I

could offer them than what I was going to.

Actually, I don't think that's the right next step.

There's like a real integrity in operating in that way to be like, "Well,

actually, no, this no longer feels like it's the right route forward even

though it's what I thought I wanted to do," or, "It's what I thought I was

going to do." And I just think that's really, I don't know, it's just, like,

refreshing to- Be flexible enough,.

And ego to say "Actually no, I'm just gonna do this instead.

, I'm gonna change how I do things.

I'm gonna rewrite the sales page.

I'm gonna change what the outcome is." I just think that's actually so useful to

hear because I think… again, I talked about this I think previously, like we

hear so much of the successful drop a note launches like these fucking launches at

the moment of which there seem to be a few where it, they just are like, "Oh my

God, I accidentally a $2 million launch.

I didn't even think it through, like it just happened.

One day I was posting, then another day happened I had 2 million followers, and

then everyone signed up." And whilst they are so inspiring and I really don't

resent anyone for getting that, that's incredible, I want it for everybody,

myself included. But it is hard to puzzle out, then how do I do that? how do I

do that?" I think it's so refreshing to hear people have different approaches,

shifting and pivoting as they do it, being honest about the bits that felt

good and the bits that didn't felt good.

one of the bits of feedback I had was just like, "God, it's been so

fun to be on this launch journey."

Normally when people are launching I'm like, "Oh, I'll see you in a couple

of weeks." But because you'd brought us along with you, I felt like I've

really enjoyed it, like I felt like I've been on this little journey.

Not because they bought.

Like I had some of my friends were like, "Fucking love had a great time.

, One of my best friends was like, "God, I wish I needed this." She's a nurse,

so she doesn't need, to be in the Building A Story club, but she's like,

"Babe, I really wish I needed this 'cause I've had such a great time."

And know, that's lovely, isn't it?

And I just think, yeah, it's just really refreshing to hear you talk in that way,

about shifting and pivoting and listening.

I think there's lots of important takeaways that I can take and I'm sure

lots of our listeners can as well.

Yeah.

And it's so interesting, isn't it?

Because I love that you have that perspective.

I give myself quite a hard time on, does it make me look flaky?

So on the Friday when I was like in freeze mode and I couldn't really decide what to

do and I was just getting bombarded by all of this feedback about, people who didn't

have a group who really wanted to join and, or were disappointed or whatever.

I sent an email out, saying "You know, if you don't have a group, open this."

if I were to open up a group that was, three months and it was like £500 a

month and we'd create a group for you.

I was like, could I create something different for these

people who wanted to create a group?

would that be the answer?

And, the responses I got there were also really interesting as well.

I had people coming back saying "Oh yeah, I'd love that, but I

don't have the money for that.

That would be too expensive for me." I think one someone said "I'd

need to win the lottery to do that."

And that in itself I think is probably part of the challenge of why I don't

open up the high ticket groups to people who don't have groups is

because especially if you want to do a low ticket membership, like yeah,

it's £800 a month to work with me.

, It's a big commitment and you have to have a level of income

to be able to afford to do it.

I also got some DMs from people who were like, I don't know,

trying to coach me in my DMs.

You know?

like wondering, like maybe I was panicking, or maybe I was being too

reactive, or,, how does this look to people, or maybe you should, keep an eye

on you don't, panic now and over-capacity yourself for later in the year.

And again, I know they all come from, a really good place.

And what… I guess what I think maybe I take away from this, launch, and I

probably take this away from most launches actually that I do, is that, I have a

really good connection with my audience.

people love to, tell me what's going on, and they, are great at giving

me feedback, and they're really, kind in the fact that, I'm…

I guess I'm able to make these pivots because I do know what my audience

is saying and what they want, even if it feels hard for me to hear.

So I guess I worry sometimes that, I've decided not to do that program because

I actually think that the Superfan Sprint is, it's a program that I know

works, it's brilliant, and I've already got it there and I can actually, I can

get that up and running really easily.

So it actually makes a lot more sense for me to run that one

rather than create a new one.

but I guess I still feel I don't know.. Am I just being flaky?

Should I just stick with the plan?

Should I just, power through?

is there some kind of, you know, block with me selling Outrageous?

Maybe I don't want to sell Outrageous.

There's so many things.

I mean, again, it's all mindset stuff, isn't it?

But overall, I am really happy.

I'm really happy that I'm gonna be selling the Superfan Sprint 'cause

it's one of my favorite things to sell.

and I know that it gets incredible results.

And I really want a funnel that works all the time that doesn't require me

to be live, and so that's gotta be my, overarching thing that I come back to,

Yeah, and also, I've got two things to say here.

Also, potentially you would then end up with more people

who are ready for outrageous.

if people do the super fan sprint, have then got this group program, and then, in

a certain amount of time have are ready to start - scaling it to six figures.

also, I said this to my husband when I was in launch.

It's isn't it weird?

we are critiquing ourselves and being these, brutal critics, when essentially

what we've just done is come up with an idea in our head, and sat somewhere in

our house, occasionally a coffee shop, and put together all sorts of hoopla to

allow people to come and buy something that we've up to solve a problem or

to offer some sort of transformation.

Like, how is that anything other than fucking genius?

Do you know what I mean?

Like, how is that anything other than, what do you mean you just did that?

do you mean, Sophie, that you to a wedding, came back, rewrote a sales page,

wrote some sales emails, have invited 25 people or whatever it was into this

sprint, and now teach them how to make more money out of their group program.

after you deduct ads have made, two and a half grand from that.

just from your imagination, your knowledge, your willpower, your gumption.

how is that anything other than fucking brilliant?

And yet we're all, in the nuance of, "Oh, God, are people gonna think this?

Are people…" Fucking hell, people should just be like, "You're

incredible." honestly, when I sit and think about it, I'm like, I sat

barefoot in the bedroom next to my son's bedroom just, did it my own.

Sometimes you sat in the house on your own just, dialing into a Zoom

and, being like, "Hi, everybody." It's bizarre, is what it is.

so I just think I've really been trying to sit in, not just moving on.

I have been trying to sit in the fact that, this deserves some celebration.

what you're doing deserves some celebration.

not what are the optics to other people looking in?

what about what I just did, guys?

'Cause, we should all be so proud of ourself, and I just

think we're not as a collective.

women in business, it's so easy for us to be like, "Okay, but what didn't work?

What do I need to change next time? How can I make it more successful?" But

also, just taking a minute to be like, but you did just, invent something.

You did literally just create something from scratch.

Like essentially gave birth to a baby.

Like we are just as women very good at that.

I know.

You, I know, and you're absolutely right.

And I think like it is incredible that, yeah, I had an idea, I did

it, I made a couple of grand.

and, really all I've done is had to send a few extra emails

and then create the content.

And now I have the content.

I have a five-day program, for people who want to,, make their Fuck Yes Group offer.

which again might end up being in my funnel.

Who knows?

But it is incredible that the knowledge we have that we can

just go out there and do it.

And you're right.

I think it's just, it's so easy to get caught up in the like, how does it look

from the outside when actually, we're doing pretty epic things here, guys

I just think really we are.

and it is one of the risks of, the relationship that you build with your

audience, the relationship that I build with my audience, where people

are like, " Let me give you some thoughts." like they're all from a

really lovely place, and they are often really, really lovely thoughts.

when you have built a relationship that allows full conversation, timing of it

sometimes can be like … You know, I had moments in my launch where I was like,

"Am I too girl next door here?" because there were people that I know really

well messaging me, but there were also people that were like quite new to me.

And I was like, "Wow, they're really like feeling a connection

with me," which is amazing.

But am I underselling my expertise in presenting this way?

I don't know.

But yeah, there was part of me that just wondered like It's finding the balance,

isn't it, of like establishing yourself as an expert whilst also building

incredible connection and relationships.

And I do really, really, really deeply believe in those relationships.

And I know that of my conversions came from it.

but yeah, that positioning piece is difficult, isn't it?

How do you position yourself as both and approachable, and expert?

that's the balance I think.

And of times in my DMs I was like, I don't know.".

There was people that I'd hadn't met before were messaging me.

Lovely messages, but I was like, "Wow, that's quite an acceleration." so yeah,

I definitely had some thoughts around that as well about do I sometimes chicken

out of my expertise a little bit as

Yeah.

I think we could probably do an episode on that actually, couldn't we?

'Cause I do think that is something, with how we both market our businesses around,

personal brands and storytelling, and I guess being really honest on here as well,

is that, , how do you be really relatable and build that connection without

I guess without then also talking about your expertise I'm really honest and

open, but, nobody knows my whole life.

It's still a version of, you know, it's like the filtered version for Instagram.

And so I think sometimes, it's easy to think we know more than we do, isn't it?

yeah

I think that would be a good episode.

I think that, that balance is really hard.

And actually, it's resistance I get from people around storytelling.

They're like, , are people gonna respect me if I talk about that?

And I did have a moment when I was worried about sales, I had, a couple

of days, I was like, I'm not updating the Post-it wall today." and I

thought - maybe I've made myself seem lacking in expertise by being honest.

I actually by the end didn't think that was true.

and actually it's proven more to me, about the power of storytelling and building

out loud and all that sort of stuff.

But yeah, I think it's something that people definitely give thought to, can

I be honest about this and then still ask them to pay £1,800 to come into

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

Let's do that as a topic.

I think that'd be a good one, actually.

Amazing.

thank you so much, everyone.

We will, of course, see you next Tuesday.

Bye