Transcripts
This series was supported by the Pulitzer
Nick Mott:Center.
Amy Martin:What do you like about living in Kaktovik?
Tim Kamaka:Everything, the clean air, the quietness.
Tim Kamaka:Everybody knows everybody, small town. When I leave, I can't wait
Tim Kamaka:to come back.
Amy Martin:Tim Kamaka is an island guy. He's originally from
Amy Martin:Hawaii, and about 15 years ago he moved to Barter Island, a
Amy Martin:small barrier island just off the northern coast of Alaska.
Amy Martin:Tim manages a hotel here in the small town of Kaktovik, and
Amy Martin:lately, he says, business has been good.
Tim Kamaka:The tourism business is huge. Yeah, we had 2000
Tim Kamaka:visitors come through last year.
Amy Martin:For a town of?
Tim Kamaka:280. So it's huge.
Amy Martin:And are they are here, like 99% to see polar
Amy Martin:bears?
Tim Kamaka:Yeah, like 100%. They're here to see the bears.
Amy Martin:Kaktovik is the only town inside the boundaries of
Amy Martin:the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and it's also one of the
Amy Martin:best places in the world to see polar bears.
Tim Kamaka:This is world class polar bear viewing. You can't
Tim Kamaka:view them like this, anywhere like, seriously, anywhere eye
Tim Kamaka:level like this. And it's close.
Amy Martin:Tim says, when he first moved here, he was as
Amy Martin:excited as anyone else to see the bears.
Tim Kamaka:Yeah, I guess I was pretty stoked. You know, like,
Tim Kamaka:wow, bears. We don't have those in Hawaii.
Amy Martin:But after 15 years, things have changed.
Amy Martin:How does it feel to you when you see a polar bear at this point?
Tim Kamaka:It's just some regular, like a dog. They're
Tim Kamaka:like, you know, they're actually a nuisance, and they're just our
Tim Kamaka:animals up here. That's it. I mean, that's just, we're
Tim Kamaka:literally in their backyard, yeah? But when I see bears, I
Amy Martin:But you're over it.
Amy Martin:mean, they're cute, they're amazing.
Tim Kamaka:Yeah, yeah.
Amy Martin:I loved this moment with Tim, because it's such a
Amy Martin:great example of how proximity changes perspective, of how
Amy Martin:things can look so different depending if you're far away or
Amy Martin:up close. Because polar bears inhabit a world that seems so
Amy Martin:remote to most people, it's almost impossible to imagine
Amy Martin:them as anything other than extraordinary, fascinating,
Amy Martin:frightening, a source of wonder. But for Tim...
Tim Kamaka:They're just here. They're just literally like wild
Tim Kamaka:dogs all over the place.
Amy Martin:But there's a real dark side to this abundance of
Amy Martin:polar bears in Kaktovik. They're coming here because they're
Amy Martin:losing their preferred habitat, the sea ice. As the climate
Amy Martin:warms, more and more polar bears are using the Arctic National
Amy Martin:Wildlife Refuge, including this island, as a true refuge, a
Amy Martin:place to find food, build dens and raise their cubs as the sea
Amy Martin:ice recedes. So there's this weird paradox. As the bears
Amy Martin:become increasingly threatened by climate change, they're
Amy Martin:actually more visible in some places, and that's something we
Amy Martin:wouldn't know if we didn't have the tools to look at this
Amy Martin:situation on a planetary scale. So proximity can change
Amy Martin:perspective in all sorts of ways. Sometimes we have to get
Amy Martin:really close to a situation to understand it, and sometimes we
Amy Martin:have to pull way back in order to see all of the pieces.
Amy Martin:Welcome to Threshold, I'm Amy Martin, and this is episode two
Amy Martin:in our series about the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
Amy Martin:Congress approved oil drilling in the refuge at the end of 2017
Amy Martin:and as we release this in the fall of 2019, the Trump
Amy Martin:administration is saying they'll start selling off drilling
Amy Martin:rights in the refuge this winter, opponents are vowing to
Amy Martin:stop that from happening. This battle is coming to a head, but
Amy Martin:for the last 40 years, it's been a fight that has played out at a
Amy Martin:distance for most people. So over the next several episodes,
Amy Martin:I'm gonna take you with me as I try to understand what drilling
Amy Martin:means to the people who live closest to it. Two groups have
Amy Martin:deep roots in this area, the Gwich'in, who live in the
Amy Martin:interior, and the Inupiat up on the coast, and we're going to
Amy Martin:start here in Kaktovik, because it's the town closest to the
Amy Martin:action. Now that drilling has been approved by Congress, it
Amy Martin:could mean people someday have oil rigs right next door, but it
Amy Martin:could also mean this small town is suddenly awash in cash. So if
Amy Martin:drilling happens, and if it doesn't, the people of Kaktovik
Amy Martin:will be directly affected.
Fenton Rexford:Kaktovic is the only community, the only
Fenton Rexford:village, within the boundaries of the Arctic National Wildlife
Fenton Rexford:Refuge.
Matthew Rexford:Our lands have always been locked up, and no
Matthew Rexford:development has ever occurred on our lands in regards to oil and
Matthew Rexford:gas development.
Unknown:Why would we would we want to have Prudhoe Bay? You
Unknown:see all the oil rigs and stuff, and it's not fancy stuff.
Fenton Rexford:Bears weren't really a problem until recently
Fenton Rexford:with climate change and the Arctic Ocean is opening up.
Fenton Rexford:There was ice there all the time now it's all gone.
Amy Martin:So what are we looking at right now? Where are
Amy Martin:you taking me?
Matthew Rexford:Okay, so we're going down our old, towards our
Matthew Rexford:old runway.
Amy Martin:Matthew Rexford is giving me a tour of Kaktovik,
Amy Martin:Alaska. He's 34 years old, and he's lived in this village his
Amy Martin:whole life. Like most people in Kaktovik, Matthew is Inupiat,
Amy Martin:one of the indigenous groups of the American Arctic. He's the
Amy Martin:Tribal Administrator here, among several other leadership roles.
Matthew Rexford:This runway was installed around the Cold War
Matthew Rexford:era, 1940s, 1950s and 60s, and the original Kaktovik community
Matthew Rexford:settlement was where this old runway used to be in front of
Matthew Rexford:us.
Amy Martin:We're driving on a low lying, narrow strip of land.
Amy Martin:Matthew says, when the Air Force wanted a place to land their
Amy Martin:planes, they bulldozed the village that was here, and the
Amy Martin:local people had to rebuild in a new spot on the island. And that
Amy Martin:was just the first time.
Matthew Rexford:In the 1950s, there was a second relocation of
Matthew Rexford:the community, and in the 1960s, there was the final relocation
Matthew Rexford:of the community to where Kaktovik is right now.
Amy Martin:So the community has been moved three times?
Matthew Rexford:Three times.
Amy Martin:Today, it takes less than 10 minutes to drive around
Amy Martin:the circumference of this village of nearly 300 people.
Amy Martin:Many of the houses are built up on piers that lift them above
Amy Martin:the puddles and pools seeping up from the permafrost soil, and
Amy Martin:almost every home is surrounded by the signature gear of Arctic
Amy Martin:life, four wheelers and boats, sleds and snowmobiles, plus the
Amy Martin:occasional musk ox hide, whale bone, or set of caribou antlers.
Amy Martin:But there are some things in town that you definitely don't
Amy Martin:find in many Alaskan villages, a new assisted living home, a
Amy Martin:health clinic and big buildings for power and water facilities.
Amy Martin:How have you seen the village change in your 34 years?
Matthew Rexford:Oh, so prior to I'd say, around the year 2000,
Matthew Rexford:our community didn't have a water sewage system installed,
Matthew Rexford:as it is today, where we can flush a toilet. Prior to that,
Matthew Rexford:we had honey buckets and a lot of this infrastructure in our
Matthew Rexford:community, the gravel roads, the power and electricity, the water
Matthew Rexford:infrastructure, have been built from the tax revenues for the
Matthew Rexford:oil and gas infrastructure development in the pipeline.
Amy Martin:So when you get to flush a toilet in Kaktovik, you
Amy Martin:can thank the oil industry.
Matthew Rexford:Oh yes, yes.
Amy Martin:Many people in small villages in Alaska are getting
Amy Martin:by without things that most Americans consider basic
Amy Martin:necessities. But oil money is changing that on the North
Amy Martin:Slope, this northern tier of Alaska, where some of the
Amy Martin:country's biggest oil and gas deposits have been discovered.
Amy Martin:For example, millions of dollars have been poured into the
Amy Martin:Kaktovik school. It's designed for pre K all the way through
Amy Martin:high school, and it's equipped with dozens of computers,
Amy Martin:musical instruments, a high end shop, a big gym and even a
Amy Martin:swimming pool. All of this is thanks to taxes and royalties
Amy Martin:from oil development. And for Matthew, drilling for oil in the
Amy Martin:refuge means more of these improvements, more and better,
Amy Martin:housing, healthcare and community services.
Matthew Rexford:We do see those benefits, the positive benefits
Matthew Rexford:our community still growing, and would like to continue to grow
Matthew Rexford:in this special place.
Amy Martin:Matthew and I have arrived at the southern edge of
Amy Martin:the island, looking out into the ocean, we can see a gray green
Amy Martin:strip of land in the distance.
Amy Martin:The land over there, that's the, that's the coastal plain of the
Amy Martin:Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Is that right?
Matthew Rexford:Yes, that is correct.
Amy Martin:And is that the actual spot where you think
Amy Martin:there might be oil development, or do you think it'd be another
Amy Martin:spot on the coast? Or does nobody know yet?
Unknown:Well, so yeah, that's still being discussed. They're
Unknown:currently trying to get a seismic exploration in place to
Unknown:determine where a lot of the oil and gas would be.
Amy Martin:Although most of the land of the Arctic National
Amy Martin:Wildlife Refuge is owned by the federal government, more than
Amy Martin:90,000 acres of the coastal plain is native land. But
Amy Martin:because that native land is part of the refuge, oil development
Amy Martin:has been prohibited there.
Matthew Rexford:Our lands have always been locked up, and no
Matthew Rexford:development has ever occurred on our lands in regards to oil and
Amy Martin:So when you say it's been locked up, like you're
Amy Martin:gas development.
Amy Martin:saying that for your whole life, nobody has been able to make any
Amy Martin:money from oil and gas development on native lands.
Matthew Rexford:Yes, on the coastal plain, that is correct.
Matthew Rexford:It took an act of Congress to allow for the coastal plain to
Matthew Rexford:be opened up.
Amy Martin:And then that that happened in December 2017 with
Amy Martin:the passage of the tax bill and and what, how did that feel to
Amy Martin:you when you got the news, like it passed?
Matthew Rexford:Oh, it's, it was. It felt like a blessing. I
Matthew Rexford:mean, the opportunities for our people have been opened up, and
Matthew Rexford:if any development does occur in and around our area, we want to
Matthew Rexford:ensure that it is done right.
Amy Martin:So the question here is, how, how exactly could oil
Amy Martin:development be a blessing for Kaktovik? Well, to answer that,
Amy Martin:we have to spend a few minutes on something called the Alaska
Amy Martin:Native Claims Settlement Act, known by its acronym ANCSA. This
Amy Martin:is a giant federal law that was passed in 1971 and it was
Amy Martin:intended to settle the question of which parts of Alaska would
Amy Martin:be owned by its original inhabitants. It's important to
Amy Martin:keep in mind that Alaska Natives never consented to have any of
Amy Martin:their lands owned by the United States or anyone else. That land
Amy Martin:was just taken, and ANCSA was an awkward mechanism designed to
Amy Martin:give a small portion of it back with conditions. So one way to
Amy Martin:get inside of this thing is to think about what happened to
Amy Martin:indigenous people in the lower 48 after white people arrived,
Amy Martin:open warfare treaties made and broken, and eventually the
Amy Martin:reservation system was created with all of its flaws. The
Amy Martin:Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act was, at least on the
Amy Martin:surface, an attempt to do things differently. Instead of
Amy Martin:reservations, the heart of ANCSA is something called the Native
Amy Martin:Corporation. ANCSA created 13 regional native corporations and
Amy Martin:over 200 smaller village corporations in Alaska, and
Amy Martin:designated 44 million acres and close to a billion dollars to be
Amy Martin:divided among them. Native Alaskans became shareholders in
Amy Martin:these new corporations, and the idea was that the corporations
Amy Martin:could sell the timber or gold or oil on their land and then
Amy Martin:distribute the profits among the shareholders. And some people
Amy Martin:argued that this would help Native Alaskans to be more self
Amy Martin:sufficient than, say, the reservation system. But of
Amy Martin:course, Native Alaskans already knew how to be self sufficient.
Amy Martin:They'd been surviving on their lands for thousands of years.
Amy Martin:They had their own systems of trade, their own notions of
Amy Martin:wealth and well being. But baked into ANCSA was the assumption
Amy Martin:that all of that had to change, that the only legitimate
Amy Martin:paradigm was to think of the land and its resources as
Amy Martin:commodities to be exploited and sold. It imposed a capitalist
Amy Martin:world view on people who'd never defined themselves or their
Amy Martin:places in those terms before, and it said, this is the only
Amy Martin:way forward for your community. So has ANCSA been good for
Amy Martin:Native people in Alaska? Has it been a pathway toward economic
Amy Martin:independence or another form of colonization, or maybe some of
Amy Martin:both? Well, tons of academics and authors have tried to answer
Amy Martin:that over the decades. It's way more than we can tackle here,
Amy Martin:but we can say that the effects of ANCSA are still unfolding in
Amy Martin:many places, and one of them is Kaktovik. Many people in the
Amy Martin:village are shareholders in two native corporations, the
Amy Martin:Kaktovik Inupiat Corporation, or KIC, which owns land in and
Amy Martin:around the village, and the much larger Arctic Slope Regional
Amy Martin:Corporation, which owns land across Alaska's North Slope.
Amy Martin:Both of these corporations stand to benefit from oil development
Amy Martin:on the coastal plain, but because that land has been
Amy Martin:protected, they haven't been able to reap those rewards. Yet.
Fenton Rexford:Kaktovik is the only community, the only village
Fenton Rexford:within the boundaries of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
Fenton Rexford:We are the only religion community located within the
Fenton Rexford:coastal plain of ANWR.
Amy Martin:This is Fenton Rexford, Matthew's uncle. He's
Amy Martin:also from Kaktovik, and he's speaking at a congressional
Amy Martin:hearing in Washington, DC. This is from March of 2019.
Fenton Rexford:We are not an exhibit in a museum, Nor should
Fenton Rexford:the land that we have survived and strived for centuries be
Fenton Rexford:locked away for the peace of mind from those from far away
Fenton Rexford:places.
Amy Martin:This hearing was about a bill aiming to declare
Amy Martin:the refuge off limits for oil. It was introduced by House
Amy Martin:Democrats, and the goal was to undo the part of the 2017 tax
Amy Martin:law that opened up the refuge for drilling. It's since been
Amy Martin:passed by the House, but it has basically no chance of making it
Amy Martin:through the Senate. Fenton Rexford came to Washington to
Amy Martin:testify against it. Like Matthew, he wants the right to
Amy Martin:drill in his backyard. He began by trying to educate lawmakers
Amy Martin:on the history of his community.
Fenton Rexford:1947, the US military, Cold War, arrived on
Fenton Rexford:Barter Island and Kaktovik to build a 5000 foot runway and
Fenton Rexford:hangar. We were told to move our village, our homes, our ice
Fenton Rexford:cellars, graves and cemeteries were bulldozed and filled in.
Amy Martin:He lists a series of injustices, including the
Amy Martin:creation of the Arctic National Wildlife Range in 1960, the
Amy Martin:predecessor to the current refuge.
Fenton Rexford:The range was established without our input,
Fenton Rexford:Kaktovik input, without consultation. Our rights to hunt
Fenton Rexford:were now restricted further. 1964, the military directed
Fenton Rexford:again, the third time to move.
Amy Martin:And then, in 1980, came the bill that doubled the
Amy Martin:size of the wildlife range and added it to the national
Amy Martin:wildlife refuge system. As we talked about in our last
Amy Martin:episode, this looked like a huge conservation win to many people
Amy Martin:in the lower 48 but Fenton says it felt very different in
Amy Martin:Kaktovik.
Fenton Rexford:The interests of the outside conservation groups
Fenton Rexford:have trumped the interests of our people. We have spent over
Fenton Rexford:40 years lobbying Congress to allow oil and gas leasing within
Fenton Rexford:the coastal plain, even leasing on our own native lands requires
Fenton Rexford:the act of Congress. Since the federal government showed up,
Fenton Rexford:152 years ago, the outside groups have used the federal
Fenton Rexford:government as a tool to assert their own interest in our land.
Fenton Rexford:This school of thoughts amount to nothing more than green
Fenton Rexford:colonialism, a political occupation of our land in the
Fenton Rexford:name of environment.
Amy Martin:I watched Fenton's testimony online and then
Amy Martin:immediately started trying to get in touch with him. I wanted
Amy Martin:to dig into what he said at this hearing to find out more about
Amy Martin:what he means by green colonialism and how that
Amy Martin:connects to all the other forms of colonialism playing out here.
Amy Martin:I didn't have any luck reaching him, but a few months later,
Amy Martin:when I went to Kaktovik, I knocked on Fenton's door and
Amy Martin:asked if we could talk. His answer was no, which, of course,
Amy Martin:is his prerogative. But I'm telling you all this because
Amy Martin:people promoting oil development in the refuge, including some in
Amy Martin:Kaktovik, often say that the media is not paying attention to
Amy Martin:pro oil voices. So I want to be clear that I sincerely wanted to
Amy Martin:hear from people on all sides, including Fenton, and I did all
Amy Martin:I could to make that happen. One of the key things I can glean
Amy Martin:from Fenton's testimony, though, and from my other research and
Amy Martin:reporting, is that the whole way the issue of oil development in
Amy Martin:the refuge gets framed feels wrong to some people here. For
Amy Martin:the general public, this fight is about the value of wildlife
Amy Martin:and pristine places versus the value of oil. But for many in
Amy Martin:Kaktovik, the heart of this conflict is about something else
Amy Martin:entirely, their sovereignty and all the ways it's been ignored.
Amy Martin:We'll have more after this short break.
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Amy Martin:Welcome back to Threshold, I'm Amy Martin, and we're going to
Amy Martin:leave the village of Kaktovik for a few minutes here to try to
Amy Martin:answer one of the most important questions in this conflict over
Amy Martin:drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. How much oil
Amy Martin:are we talking about here? And where is it- on the federal
Amy Martin:land? On the native land? In the waters offshore? For 40 years,
Amy Martin:everyone with an interest in this place has been asking these
Amy Martin:questions, and that has led a lot of us to this guy.
Dave Houseknecht:My name is Dave Houseknecht. I'm a senior
Dave Houseknecht:research geologist with the US Geological Survey, and I lead a
Dave Houseknecht:team of scientists that work on the regional geology of northern
Dave Houseknecht:Alaska.
Amy Martin:There's probably not very many people who know with
Amy Martin:any more precision than you do how much oil is in the 1002
Amy Martin:area. Is that correct?
Dave Houseknecht:I think that's a fair statement. In terms of
Dave Houseknecht:scientists in the public domain.
Amy Martin:Dave works out of the US Geological Survey
Amy Martin:headquarters just outside of Washington, DC. We're talking
Amy Martin:over the phone here. He's walked and driven and flown over
Amy Martin:different parts of the North Slope countless times, because
Amy Martin:he and his team are charged with the task of knowing how much oil
Amy Martin:and gas there is on the public land in northern Alaska, and
Amy Martin:then communicating that information to policy makers and
Amy Martin:the public. So I asked him, how much oil is there in the Arctic
Amy Martin:National Wildlife Refuge?
Dave Houseknecht:Well, no one knows.
Amy Martin:This isn't what anyone wants to hear, and Dave
Amy Martin:knows it. I asked him to hone in on the federal land. How much
Amy Martin:oil in the refuge is owned by all of the American people?
Dave Houseknecht:You know, when we do our estimates, we do them
Dave Houseknecht:probabilistically. And so, you know, we estimate a mean number
Dave Houseknecht:of about 7 billion barrels under the federal part of the land.
Amy Martin:And sometimes I see the number 7.6 billion. Are you
Amy Martin:just rounding to seven for this conversation, or has that point
Amy Martin:six fallen away?
Dave Houseknecht:No, it's still, it's still there. I'm
Dave Houseknecht:just generalizing, because if I said to you, 7.6 billion, you
Dave Houseknecht:know, to many people who hear that, they automatically think
Dave Houseknecht:of greater precision than represented by the uncertainty
Dave Houseknecht:in the number.
Amy Martin:Uncertainty. That's the keyword here. Everyone wants
Amy Martin:Dave to give one nice, clean number telling us how much oil
Amy Martin:there is in the refuge, but he can't do that. What he can do is
Amy Martin:give us an average of the probable amount. That's where
Amy Martin:the seven point something billion barrels comes from. And
Amy Martin:just to help that number make some sense, 7 billion barrels is
Amy Martin:about how much oil Americans currently consume in one year.
Amy Martin:It's a small fraction of the total proven oil reserves in the
Amy Martin:United States, about 2% if you include shale oil, but it's
Amy Martin:still worth a lot of money, depending on the price of oil,
Amy Martin:it could be worth hundreds of billions of dollars. But again,
Amy Martin:that's just the federal land and the refuge. Dave says, if you
Amy Martin:include the estimated oil on native owned land and in the
Amy Martin:waters just offshore, which are owned by the state, that mean
Amy Martin:estimate goes up to about 10.4 billion barrels, so an
Amy Martin:additional 2.7 ish billion barrels of oil, some owned by
Amy Martin:Native corporations, some by the state of Alaska. Dave says he's
Amy Martin:not allowed to break down those numbers any further to tell me
Amy Martin:how much of that 2.7 billion is estimated to be on native land.
Amy Martin:So at this point, we really can't begin to quantify in any
Amy Martin:realistic way how much people in Kaktovik would actually make
Amy Martin:from oil development. There's just a whole lot of mystery
Amy Martin:surrounding the question of how much oil is on the coastal plain
Amy Martin:and where that oil might be.
Dave Houseknecht:The range of uncertainty is quite large, just
Dave Houseknecht:because there is very little subsurface data that we can use
Dave Houseknecht:to make these estimates.
Amy Martin:I should back up here and say that there are
Amy Martin:basically two main ways to figure out where oil is hiding
Amy Martin:underground. You do seismic tests, or you drill exploration
Amy Martin:wells. Usually it's a combination of both, and seismic
Amy Martin:testing often comes first. That process involves sending shock
Amy Martin:waves down from the surface using dynamite or big thumper
Amy Martin:trucks. But because the refuge has been a protected area, any
Amy Martin:kind of exploration, including seismic testing, has required an
Amy Martin:act of Congress, and the last time seismic tests were done in
Amy Martin:the refuge was in the 1980s.
Dave Houseknecht:And what was done was a two dimensional
Dave Houseknecht:seismic survey, which was conducted during the winters of
Dave Houseknecht:1984 and 85 so those data are very old.
Amy Martin:Dave says seismic surveys can give a good overview
Amy Martin:of the oil deposits in an area, but nothing can replace the
Amy Martin:certainty that comes from drilling a hole in the ground
Amy Martin:and seeing if oil comes out. And that's where the plot thickens a
Amy Martin:bit here, because there has been a well drilled on the coastal
Amy Martin:plain, just one in the mid-1980s.
Dave Houseknecht:The USGS has never seen the data from that
Dave Houseknecht:well. It is the only actual drilling result that exists on
Dave Houseknecht:the refuge coastal plain.
Amy Martin:It's known as the KIC well because it was drilled
Amy Martin:on land owned by the Kaktovik and Inupiat Corporation, the
Amy Martin:local Native Corporation created by the Alaska Native Claims
Amy Martin:Settlement Act.
Dave Houseknecht:That data, because the well was drilled on
Dave Houseknecht:native lands, remains proprietary.
Amy Martin:Proprietary and guarded with James Bond-like
Amy Martin:secrecy. For years, the information was held by Alaska
Amy Martin:state oil well regulators in a locked box inside a safe which
Amy Martin:was kept in a locked room in a secured area of the agency in
Amy Martin:Anchorage. And recently, when there was a fear that the
Amy Martin:location had been leaked atop Alaskan oil and gas, officials
Amy Martin:said the data was moved to an even more secret location under
Amy Martin:cover of darkness. That's how much some people want to know
Amy Martin:the answer to the question of how much oil there is in the
Amy Martin:1002 area, and where that oil might be located. In April 2019,
Amy Martin:there was another plot twist. The New York Times reported that
Amy Martin:an attorney who'd seen the data from the well decades ago, was
Amy Martin:ready to talk, to share what he knew, and drum roll please, he
Amy Martin:said, the KIC see well was, quote, "worthless." A dry hole.
Amy Martin:Dave Houseknecht says that if that's true, and he doesn't know
Amy Martin:if it is or not, it's certainly interesting. But he also says it
Amy Martin:doesn't mean there's no oil to be had on the coastal plain.
Amy Martin:With more and better seismic data, they might be able to
Amy Martin:pinpoint different places to drill, and there may well be
Amy Martin:more seismic tests as soon as this winter. If that happens,
Amy Martin:everyone's going to want to know if Dave's estimated numbers grow
Amy Martin:or shrink.
Amy Martin:So are you completely agnostic, or do you have any kind of, you
Amy Martin:know, you know this data better than almost anyone. Do you have
Amy Martin:any kind of hunch of like, yeah, but it's going to trend up or
Amy Martin:trend down once we really find out?
Dave Houseknecht:No, I really don't. And even if I did, I
Dave Houseknecht:wouldn't tell you, because, you know, part of my job is to
Dave Houseknecht:present briefings that inform policy makers in Washington, DC,
Dave Houseknecht:and if I even hinted that I lean one way or another on either the
Dave Houseknecht:size of the undiscovered resource or whether or not a
Dave Houseknecht:certain area should be open for exploration or remain closed for
Dave Houseknecht:exploration. You know, I would soon lose all credibility. So,
Dave Houseknecht:you know, being agnostic is a good thing for my job.
Amy Martin:Dave gets pressured to make predictions like this
Amy Martin:from all sides, and it's his job to stay neutral, to inform
Amy Martin:policy, not to try to influence it. So he's trying hard to stay
Amy Martin:in his lane, and I respect that, but I also had to put him on the
Amy Martin:spot a little bit, because there's a deeper question here.
Amy Martin:The purpose of his job is to help the government figure out
Amy Martin:where to find oil and gas on our public lands. And as the planet
Amy Martin:heats up, a lot of people think we should stop doing that. I
Amy Martin:actually interviewed Dave twice, once on the phone and once in
Amy Martin:his office in DC, and this is from the last few minutes of our
Amy Martin:in person conversation.
Amy Martin:Given the fact that the world is warming and that the Arctic is
Amy Martin:warming twice as fast as the rest of the planet, and that
Amy Martin:that has major implications for for people all over the planet,
Amy Martin:do we have a moral obligation as a species to stop looking for
Amy Martin:more oil and to direct our energies toward something else?
Dave Houseknecht:Well, that's interesting. I'm not going to
Dave Houseknecht:give you my opinion about that, but I think the the consensus of
Dave Houseknecht:of even geoscientists, is that that we're moving in that
Dave Houseknecht:direction, and we need to move that way more rapidly.
Amy Martin:In Kaktovik the signs of climate change are
Amy Martin:everywhere. Locals say the permafrost is thawing, the
Amy Martin:storms are more intense, and of course, there's the polar bears
Amy Martin:that are increasingly hanging out here on the coast, rather
Amy Martin:than riding the sea ice as it retreats north into the deep
Amy Martin:central Arctic Ocean, where they have a much harder time finding
Amy Martin:food. I wanted to know how Matthew Rexford thinks about
Amy Martin:this issue.
Amy Martin:What do you think about climate change? Do you believe that it's
Amy Martin:happening, and what's your take on it?
Matthew Rexford:Oh, yes, it's happening. It's always happened
Matthew Rexford:in our history. For the most part, it's sort of nice. I mean,
Matthew Rexford:a warmer weather here in the Arctic is folks, folks see
Matthew Rexford:benefits to that.
Amy Martin:Why do you think climate change is happening?
Matthew Rexford:That's a loaded question. If there can be a
Matthew Rexford:number of factors, the celestial relationship of the Sun to the
Matthew Rexford:Earth, it can be the sun, it can be a number of factors. Sure,
Matthew Rexford:mass consumption of oil and gas throughout the world may play a
Matthew Rexford:part of that as well.
Amy Martin:But you don't think it's the main reason? You just
Amy Martin:think it's a factor in the mix?
Matthew Rexford:Oh yes, yes, I believe there's a number of
Matthew Rexford:factors that's causing it.
Amy Martin:So when people say we shouldn't drill in ANWR
Amy Martin:because of the increased emissions from oil and gas
Amy Martin:development, does that argument have any impact on you? Do you
Amy Martin:feel like they're just misinformed? Or what's your
Amy Martin:response to that?
Matthew Rexford:I'd have to look at the science more. But
Matthew Rexford:yeah, even with science that can fail, yeah, it's pretty tough to
Matthew Rexford:say right now.
Amy Martin:Matthew is right that all kinds of factors
Amy Martin:influence the Earth's climate, but the basic science of climate
Amy Martin:change is actually not in dispute. For hundreds of
Amy Martin:thousands of years, whenever there's been more carbon dioxide
Amy Martin:in the atmosphere, the world is warmed up. The science is
Amy Martin:crystal clear on this point. And it's also clear that through the
Amy Martin:burning of fossil fuels, human beings are pumping out planet
Amy Martin:warming gasses at a speed that's almost unmatched in the Earth's
Amy Martin:climate record. As one leading climate scientist told me,
Amy Martin:quote, "we have got this nailed down." Climate change is real,
Amy Martin:and it is us, and the Arctic is in a particularly precarious
Amy Martin:position as this happens. It's warming at least twice as fast
Amy Martin:as the rest of the planet, and it's also home to some of the
Amy Martin:largest untapped oil and gas reserves left on earth.
Amy Martin:How do you feel about the oil development? Are you for it? Are
Amy Martin:you against it?
Athena Thompson:Well, I'm I'm for it, because it's a big
Athena Thompson:opportunity that we be able to profit off of in the future.
Amy Martin:Athena Thompson didn't grow up in Kaktovik, but
Amy Martin:she spent her summers here visiting her grandparents. She
Amy Martin:has lots of memories of following her grandfather around
Amy Martin:in the summers as he hunted for the animals that people here
Amy Martin:have always depended on for food and clothing.
Athena Thompson:He likes to go fishing. He likes to put his net
Athena Thompson:out. He always likes to catch foxes or whatever he can get.
Athena Thompson:Actually caught my first ptarmigan with him. So that was
Athena Thompson:exciting.
Amy Martin:Athena now lives in Kaktovik year round with her
Amy Martin:partner Tim Kamaka, the hotel manager who we met at the
Amy Martin:beginning of this episode. Athena and Tim do almost
Amy Martin:everything at the hotel together with just one other employee,
Amy Martin:cooking, cleaning, managing the reservations. Most of the year,
Amy Martin:that's pretty doable. But over the last 10 years or so, polar
Amy Martin:bear viewing has exploded in Kaktovik, and things get really
Amy Martin:nuts here over the course of about eight weeks in the fall.
Amy Martin:That's when those 2000 tourists Tim mentioned, descend on this
Amy Martin:small village, almost all at once. He and Athena are run
Amy Martin:ragged.
Tim Kamaka:Slammed. Yeah, seven days a week, 12 to 14 hour days.
Amy Martin:Would you say it's been overall more positive or
Amy Martin:more negative to have all the tourists coming in?
Athena Thompson:It's positive, I guess, business wise and
Athena Thompson:people wanting to make money. For the locals, I guess it would
Athena Thompson:be kind of negative, because they're not used of it too much.
Athena Thompson:I guess they're not used to having people walk around and
Athena Thompson:take pictures of their homes and that kind of stuff.
Amy Martin:Athena says some tourists are really clueless and
Amy Martin:treat the people in the village kind of like they treat the
Amy Martin:bears, like something exotic to be pointed at and photographed.
Amy Martin:And even if every single tourist is polite and respectful, the
Amy Martin:influx of polar bears and people who want to see them is changing
Amy Martin:Kaktovik and change can be hard. I ask Athena if she thinks oil
Amy Martin:development might change the village too.
Athena Thompson:I don't think it'll change too much, too
Athena Thompson:dramatic. I don't think so, but I don't know. Who knows?
Amy Martin:Tim says he thinks oil development might bring more
Amy Martin:jobs, better internet service and just more options for people
Amy Martin:in Kaktovik in all kinds of ways. There are no roads into or
Amy Martin:out of the village. Barges bring in groceries and other supplies,
Amy Martin:and people here depend on airplanes, the way many
Amy Martin:Americans depend on cars. But flights are really expensive,
Amy Martin:and they can get booked up, especially during the tourist
Amy Martin:season, which can be a huge problem if you have a medical
Amy Martin:emergency or some other urgent need to get somewhere.
Tim Kamaka:And with the oil development, they will have more
Tim Kamaka:air carriers up here, so there'll be more competition.
Amy Martin:More flights, more roads, more activity in and
Amy Martin:around this village. Tim thinks all of this would be really good
Amy Martin:for the people of Kaktovik, people he knows and cares about.
Tim Kamaka:It's got really good people here. I've been on many
Tim Kamaka:villages around Alaska, and this is by far one of the best group
Tim Kamaka:I've been around. I don't know, I just like that small town,
Tim Kamaka:especially that island feeling, you know, close to the water
Tim Kamaka:still. Might be frozen, but it's still water.
Amy Martin:Are you worried that that vibe would change with oil
Amy Martin:development?
Tim Kamaka:It could, it could. It could change for good too.
Tim Kamaka:You know, not just for the bad.
Amy Martin:Now that Congress has approved oil development in
Amy Martin:the refuge, the people of Kaktovik might be about to find
Amy Martin:out if Tim's right. And looking at other communities close to
Amy Martin:oil fields, towns in North Dakota, Texas, even other
Amy Martin:Inupiaq villages on the North Slope, it seems likely that
Amy Martin:drilling won't just mean one thing for Kaktovik, it'll
Amy Martin:probably provide new opportunities and cause new
Amy Martin:problems simultaneously. The difficulty is knowing in advance
Amy Martin:what the proportions are going to be, which way most of the
Amy Martin:cards are going to fall. One poll in Kaktovik in 2016 found
Amy Martin:that just over half of the people surveyed supported oil
Amy Martin:development, but that means there are a lot of residents
Amy Martin:here who don't want it too.
Robert Thompson:It can't trip me up. I fought for the right of
Robert Thompson:freedom of speech, democracy, and I can say anything I want.
Amy Martin:Robert Thompson is Athena Thompson's grandfather.
Amy Martin:He was the one she was following around the tundra when she was
Amy Martin:learning about hunting. But Robert disagrees with his
Amy Martin:granddaughter and many of his neighbors. He doesn't see oil
Amy Martin:development as a path to the future or an expression of his
Amy Martin:indigenous rights. He sees his culture being co opted by money.
Robert Thompson:I'll ask the question, what do you want to do
Robert Thompson:make a lot of money or preserve the culture?. They know that
Robert Thompson:it's not right to be that way.
Amy Martin:We're going to stay in Kaktovik for a while. Join us
Amy Martin:next time on Threshold.
Nick Mott:Our reporting was funded by the Pulitzer Center,
Nick Mott:Montana Public Radio, the Park Foundation, the High Stakes
Nick Mott:Foundation, the William H and Mary Waddes Harris Foundation,
Nick Mott:and by our listeners. Our work depends on people who believe in
Nick Mott:it and choose to support it, people like you. Join our
Nick Mott:community and find pictures from our trip to the refuge at
Nick Mott:thresholdpodcast.org.
Amy Martin:The team behind this episode of Threshold is Nick
Amy Martin:Mott, Eva Kalea, Michelle Woods, Caysi Simpson, Brooke
Amy Martin:Artziniega, and Megan Myscofski. Special thanks to Deenaalee
Amy Martin:Hodgdon, Frank Allen, Hana Carey, Dan Carreno, Michael
Amy Martin:Connor, Kara Cromwell, Katie deFusco, Matt Herlihy and Rachel
Amy Martin:Klein. Our music is by Travis Yost.
