Time and again, Scripture tells us not to be afraid. Fear often stems from a lack of trust in God. Sometimes we need a reminder that the Lord loves us and is in control. Though we will certainly face pain and challenges, we need not give in to fear. We invited Darlene Line to discuss this difficult topic with us. She was a senior special agent for the Department of Homeland Security when 9/11 happened. This tragedy was a turning point that eventually led to her working with Chosen People Ministries.

In this episode, we wrestle with questions including:

·     What can we learn about fear from the Hebrew Scriptures?

·     Is fear sinful?

·     Why does the Bible say that we should fear God?

·     What are some verses we can ponder when we start to worry?

·     How do we find true peace?

(rhythmic music)

- Welcome to "Our Hope,"

a production of Chosen People Ministries.

On this podcast, you will hear inspiring testimonies,

learn about messianic apologetics,

and discover God's plan for Israel and you.

Wherever you're listening,

we hope you lean in, listen closely, and be blessed.

(rhythmic music)

(soft music)

- And I have to say that throughout my career,

I had been placed in countless situations

that required conflict, crisis, and just the unknown.

However, none of my training

could have ever equipped or prepared me

to handle what we faced in the 9/11 terrorist attack

and its aftermath.

(soft music)

- The old saying goes that there is nothing to fear,

but fear itself.

When we look at scripture,

we are constantly reminded,

in both the old and the new Testaments,

that those who've put their faith in the Lord

have no need for fear.

And yet, many of us still struggle every day

to trust God and let go of our worries.

We may start to wonder if our fear shows a lack of faith.

In the beginning of this episode,

you heard from Darlene Line

who was working as a senior special agent

for the US Department of Homeland Security

when 9/11 happened.

This horrific event was a catalyst for Darlene's journey

to work for Chosen People Ministries.

We are excited that she's joining us today

for a special discussion about overcoming our fears

and trusting God.

And now introduce the host

of "Our Hope" podcast, Abe Vasquez.

- Hello, everyone.

Welcome back to "Our Hope."

I'm glad to be back.

I missed last week and Nicole and Scott

had an awesome talk about community.

That was such a beautiful episode.

Thank you, Nicole, for always stepping in

and having my back when things get a little bit crazy

in the office and I can't make it to the podcast recording.

But it was such a wonderful episode.

We're recording today.

Typically, we don't say this,

but we're recording on Thursday, February 24th,

where this morning, everyone pretty much woke up to news

about what's going on in Ukraine.

And I know we are all shifting sort of our focus

in bringing awareness to what's going on there.

There are a lot of Jewish people who still live there,

and that's a big concern of ours.

That's our mission, that's our heart.

And we always want to remember to pray for the Jewish people.

And so, everything that's going on there,

if you're listening, just take a moment.

Even if you just pause this podcast,

just pray for the Jewish people that are there.

Especially for any potential antisemitism

or anything that could really affect them directly.

And of course, we pray for the entire nation of the Ukraine.

I don't think we would ever not pray for everyone else,

but Jewish people and reaching the Jewish people

really is the heart of our mission.

And so we always want to remember them.

But you know, today speaking about these times,

it's so crazy that practically a war is breaking out,

and we have an episode about fear, right?

I think it's such an important topic to talk about,

especially over the last two, three years

that we've been living through in this,

I guess, constant state of fear at our door.

And fear in and of itself, in my opinion,

isn't so much the issue.

It's when when we sit in it and when we allow it

to really overwhelm us and consume us,

and we don't recognize that God is sovereign.

And we're going to talk through all of those things.

But today, we have a very special person.

She's one of my favorite people at Chosen People Ministries.

And no, I don't say that about everyone.

It's Darlene Line.

She is a firecracker of,

and she just loves the Lord.

And everyone she speaks to and everyone

that just comes in contact with her

walks away with just so much more joy in their heart.

So Darlene, thank you so much for being with us today.

- Oh, thank you, Abe and Nicole.

Thank you for the opportunity to be here.

I'm always blessed to share

in whatever the Lord would have me share.

So, blessings to you.

- Darlene, I'm having a hard time picking up

where your accent's from.

Can you tell me where you grew up?

- Let's take a survey from those who are listening.

I grew up in good old New York.

- There you go. - Yeah.

- So growing up in New York,

what is your favorite food and why is it pizza?

- It's not pizza, it's actually eggplant parmesan.

- Eggplant parmesan! - Oh, very nice.

- Close pasta, Italian.

There you go. - Abe, if I was going

to the chair, it would be eggplant Parmesan.

Do you know what I mean by that as a New Yorker?

- Yeah, exactly.

Exactly, wow.

That is very specific.

I love myself a good eggplant parmesan.

That sounds good right now, actually.

Well, hey, thank you so much, again, for being with us.

We always love being around you.

Can you tell our listeners a little bit about

your specific work under Chosen People Ministries?

What are you up to?

- Right now, I'm doing more

since post COVID or we're coming out of the pandemic,

but it's more or less doing some Bible studies on Zoom

to ladies of all ages and all denominations.

So I have a recent Jewish believer,

I have Protestants, and I have Catholics.

And we're women who want to be,

grow in the word of God together.

Seeking his truth, praying together as intercessors,

and being under the hook of Yeshua.

And also, I'm starting an in another area up

in Northern Pennsylvania where the Lord has

introduced me to some people who have many Jewish friends,

some who have left the more conservative

or Orthodox movements of Judaism

and are more located with other groups of people.

And God is just opening ways for me

to do Seders in the house,

and so we'll see what happens.

I mean, this is very new, very exciting.

In the midst of COVID,

this beautiful thing of relationships are blossoming.

- That's really awesome, Darlene.

We're so grateful to be on this journey with you

reaching the Jewish people.

So let's just jump right in.

Darlene, where does fear come from?

I know that's a heavy first question, but (laughs).

- When you think about fear,

fear is the opposite of belief and faith,

and fear is the absence of Shalom or peace.

And I know that we're going to touch on this later

with the aspect of Shalom.

And I believe that fear,

you have a holy fear and a reverence for God,

as you know, the fear is the wisdom

of the Lord in the proverb,

but you also have the negative fears.

And I think fear in the negative sense

is one of Satan's most reliable and powerful weapons

that he uses against all of us.

What does he do?

He can take a pandemic, he can take a war,

he can take an illness,

he can take a grief of a loss of a loved one,

any kind of situation that becomes tumultuous to us

either personally or collectively and overwhelm us, right,

with this thick covering of darkness, right,

that almost consumes us.

That's fear, okay?

When it takes over us and it controls our decisions.

It controls our actions,

and you know, some sort of conflicts, the COVID-19.

We just, we get out of kilter.

To me, that's fear.

Living under this anvil on our head,

and it throws us into a continual downward spiral.

So I would ask our listeners, how does one combat this?

We all have been afraid of something.

The Bible speaks over 365 times,

do not fear, do not be afraid

because of course our creator, the king of the universe,

our redeemer, God almighty knew that we would be afraid.

And that's why he has this.

It's like, we need to take it as a spiritual vitamin.

Do not be afraid.

Do not fear.

This is what I consider soul shepherding.

And it's God's way of encouraging us,

and how do we combat that?

We have to take hold of the word of God

and not just look at it, okay, it's a Bible

and I'm going to sit down and do a little devotion.

I'm going to do a Bible study.

We got to really meditate wholeheartedly on the word of God

and allow that food of our heart and our soul

to just seep into every part of us

and digest it so that the power,

when we're clothed in the power of the holy spirit,

it will come out of us

because we cannot by ourselves combat this.

- Podcast over, that's it.

(laughter)

You answered the question.

That's it.

Thanks, folks.

- Mic drop.

I love how you mentioned how often the Bible mentions fear.

I mean, it's in both the New Testament

and the Old Testament.

When we think of fear,

I often think of the Sermon on the Mount

when Jesus says, you know,

how can any of you add one cubit

to your stature by worrying?

But what exactly does the Hebrew scriptures

tell us about fear?

- Well, there are so many of them.

I remember, like you can go into the book of Isaiah,

but back in Genesis too.

The way we deal with fear as a believer

and a follower of Yeshua,

as a disciple of his with that, you know,

really having taking hold of our authority

of who we are in Yeshua

versus being Luke warm or not a believer

is a whole different ballgame.

Prior to me coming to faith,

and I was a young adult in my twenties

when my eyes were open by the Lord

and I accepted him into my heart.

I was new in my work as a agent,

and I was in undercover narcotics

in the Miami Fort Lauderdale area.

And you know what?

Guess what happened to me?

I was a successful young agent, you know,

getting these narcotic cartels under arrest

and were celebrating, and guess what seeped into me?

Pride.

But in the backdrop, unbeknownst to me,

God was protecting me.

My whole identity got compromised,

and I had to be placed in protective hiding.

And you would think that that would bring me to my knees,

but you see, I had praying parents.

And what do they do, they intercede.

And they have praying friends.

And people were praying and praying

for the salvation of my soul.

And subsequently, one day I was driving in my car,

a little Toyota MR2 sports car with our new secretary.

I was in New Orleans of all places, right?

'Cause this was going to be my new duty station.

And we were driving down the roads,

and I told my secretary,

don't drive here because it can be sketchy at nighttime.

And we're taking back roads, and all of a sudden ka-boom!

Right through the two seater of this little sports car

in the middle of the windshield, a bullet flew through.

- Wow. - Oh wow.

- Now I thought, what did I think?

'Cause this is after I just come out of protective hiding.

I go, whoa, they found me.

And I got scared, and this is in the late 80s.

We didn't have cell phones.

You had to drive to a payphone in the street,

if you were lucky.

And in a sketchy area, they were all like not working.

Okay?

Then you had to have a quarter, you know?

- And call a beeper,

and then wait for the person to call you back.

It's a whole process.

- Whole process, get the cops.

They never knew.

I remember getting home, calling my parents

after the police report because nothing was ever found.

This bullet grazed us.

And you know, a two seater sports car is not a lot of room.

And it's an MR2, you can look at it.

It was deafening.

Had I have reached down to push,

and I had a five speed stick shift

'cause I thought I was cool.

If I was going into the fifth gear,

it would've hit me in my right eye.

If my secretary would've adjusted the radio dial,

the bullet of hit her right in her left eye.

We would've been gone.

One of us, right?

I remember calling my mom and my dad,

and I said, okay, I'm ready.

Call pastor, get me a good church in New Orleans,

and I'm ready.

They found a church for me to go to.

I surrendered my life.

I got baptized,

and Psalm 91 became my protective Psalm.

You know, because that's the theme of God's protection,

his rescue for us from danger, you know?

And so, I think that anytime

that we think about something that we're going through,

let's take hold of a Hebrew scripture, like the Psalm 91.

There's many, Lord Psalm 23, the Lord is my shepherd.

The Proverbs, right?

Psalm 56:4, as a father has compassion on his children,

so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him.

And only he could provide us with safety.

(soft music)

- We'll be right back.

(soft music)

- During these difficult times,

we know how hard it is to hold on to hope,

and we want you to know that Chosen People Ministries

is here for you.

If you have any prayer request,

our prayer team is standing by to receive them.

You can submit your request at chosenpeople.com/pray.

Again, that's chosenpeople.com/pray.

(soft music)

- Shalom.

We are so glad you're joining us

on this episode of "Our Hope."

We created this podcast as a resource

for followers of Yeshua

where they can learn more about Israel, the Bible,

and the Jewish community.

Together, we discuss messianic apologetics,

dive into scripture, and hear stories

from Jewish believers in Jesus.

If you've enjoyed our podcast series,

please consider supporting us at ourhopepodcast.com/support.

You could also help us by sharing this podcast

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or by writing a review on Apple Podcasts.

We are so grateful for you,

and we hope this episode of "Our Hope"

is both enlightening and encouraging.

- You just said earlier that, you know,

time and time again in the Bible,

it says do not fear, do not fear, do not fear.

Why does God tell us not to fear?

Is fear in and of itself sinful?

- I think that when we think about fear, it can be.

But when you think of fear,

I think that it's also, there are levels.

Like there's a healthy level of fear.

Fear instance, fear is an emotion that we all have.

And it's good to have fear

because it helps us have perception,

and I believe the holy spirit gives us this perception

of where danger would be, okay?

To stand back to have some wisdom, okay, from the Lord.

It's a natural human condition.

It's a survival mechanism and it keeps us alive,

it protects us from danger.

Of course, with the Lord's umbrella in this as we do.

But then you can have unhealthy fear

as I touched upon earlier.

And it comes from the Greek word phobias.

All kinds of phobias, right?

Fear of heights, fear of this, fear of water,

fear of anything.

People can have a fear of anything,

and to the point where it messes up their lives

that they can't even function.

That's an unhealthy fear.

That comes from the pit of hell.

And that needs to be prayed out and believed out,

and only Jesus can pull people out of this, Yeshua.

- Well, pray for me

'cause I have a fear of porcelain dolls.

So that's a very real, a very real fear.

- But you know, the spirit of God

does not produce a negative fear.

And so, but you know,

we have to honor, worship, and love him.

That's the healthy fear of God.

- Yeah, in opening, I mentioned Ukraine,

and as I was watching the news last night,

you know, I'm a dad of a one year old and a husband,

and just watching some of the things

that we've heard from Russia, from their leader,

some of the things he said

really produced a lot of fear in me.

I started freaking out saying, do I need to be prepared?

Oh my gosh, we don't have an evacuation plan.

You know, all these thoughts

started going through my head, you know?

And eventually I had to just come to the place

of recognizing, you know what?

God is in control and there's not much I can do.

So yeah, thank you for that.

- I noticed that, for me,

I think a lot of my fears come from a desire to control.

You know, I find that when I worry about things,

I feel prepared for the worst thing to happen

so that I don't get blindsided if things go wrong,

but that's not a healthy way to live at all.

So what would you say our fears can show us about ourselves

and how we view God?

- Well, when we allow our fears to take control of us,

then I think that personally our view,

or our view in general is that we're not trusting him

in the way that we need to.

And there's a big, it's a big deal to surrender

and to trust the Lord

because he's the one that controls everything.

But we have to be willing to surrender that.

And we as human beings want to control everything, you know?

It's like, oh, I got this.

We even want to help God along.

Oh, you know what?

Yeah, you know?

As if he doesn't have this, you know?

But he is (indistinct),

the God who will see, the God who provides.

Everything.

He knows our past, he knows our mistakes better than we do.

He knows our present, and absolutely our future.

- Darlene, what you said just reminded me

of Sarai in Hagar, Abraham,

and they were waiting on the promised son,

Isaac, and it wasn't happening.

And then I guess you could say out of fear,

Sarai said, hey, go with Hagar and let's get this son.

And I think sometimes our fears could,

would you say our fears could even drive us

to make a mistake?

- Absolutely.

Who here hasn't made mistake

out of impulsive reaction to fear?

I mean, I have.

Just because I'm sitting here

and I'm sharing ways of overcoming it

doesn't mean that I haven't stumbled or fell

into the trap.

You know, Jesus says,

I will never leave and forsake you,

but Satan, you know?

This is the oldest trick in the world for him to come and,

you know, deception is his favorite little tool.

And he's going to come along and he's going to say,

I'm going to try to get you to listen to this,

the garden trick, right?

I want to steal your anointing, you know?

I'm going to confuse you, I'm going to dispress you.

I'm going to discourage you.

I will try to fracture your hope.

That's what Satan's out to do.

He tried to tempt Jesus, but Jesus is God, okay?

And Jesus wasn't tempted.

But my goodness, he has great success with all of us.

So I got to stand strong in his word.

- So if scripture tells us not to fear,

why does it also say that we should fear God?

- There's a difference between

having holy fear and wisdom.

Fear is wisdom of the Lord, right?

Is having that reverence of who he is.

Again, creator, king of the universe, redeemer.

That's how we have a relationship with him

of who he is with respect to who we are.

And it's the majesty of him.

It's not like, oh my goodness.

Yes, God is love and God is judge,

but when you're looking at the fear of the Lord,

it is more in his splendor, in his awesomeness.

And we're talking about a holy reverent fear of God.

Not like, oh, I'm so terrified of you, Lord.

But a fear in aweness of him, in his splendor,

in his majesty.

Recognizing that he is our creator, he is our redeemer,

and this is how we have a real relationship with him

that puts us on a a bended knee.

(soft music)

- What is true peace and how do we find it?

- The Hebrew meaning, Shalom,

literally peace, completeness, soundness, welfare,

but also it has an extension or a nuance

with that completeness regarding health

and a permanence and a safety and this prosperity,

you know, comparing all, it's like the totality.

And I think that when we're thinking of peace,

it's always a goal and a search for man,

both individually and globally.

Doesn't everybody, aren't they all looking for peace

and everybody's got these self-help ideas

of how to attain peace?

I mean, we are in crisis right now.

And the League of Seven going to meet

and the United Nations and blah, blah, blah.

And guess what?

All for peace, but they don't even know

how to attain peace, you know?

You so, and you know,

they all pen their input on their dreams of peace

and how to obtain peace. - I have a good one.

The missing peace is Jesus.

- Oh, Abe!

- Exactly. - You're welcome.

That was for free.

- Missed the point, exactly.

Yeah, it's Jesus, you know, the Messiah.

He's the peace that passes all understanding.

- So Darlene, when you came to faith,

can you describe what that peace felt like

when you finally had that moment of Shalom?

- Well, I can describe the ultimate fear

that when my identity was compromised

and I could no longer, I was engaged,

so I lost my relationship.

I lost a home that I bought in Florida

because I couldn't live there anymore.

Couldn't even drive my own car.

Couldn't even pack my own belongings.

Couldn't be in touch with my family, my family in New York,

because my real name was released in the papers.

And therefore, it wasn't a common name.

And so I couldn't even have contact with my mom,

my dad, my brothers, et cetera.

They had to go through a third person.

- Wow. - And I had a lot of fear,

and I just felt like I was never going to ever be able to

live without having eyes behind my back of the head,

without always looking over my shoulder.

And when that bullet went through that windshield,

and I thought that they found me,

the people, the families of the cartel,

I thought, that's it.

You know what?

I'm not going to make it past 24, 25, 26 years old.

And then when I surrendered to the Lord,

it was, I can't even tell you.

I'm going to cry right now

because was a perfect peace of covering.

And I had this most assurance, last assurance, I guess.

I don't know how to describe it,

but for the first time in my life,

I could turn around and not in fear,

but in hope because I trusted God.

Now, would I make mistakes and be afraid later?

Of course I will. - Of course.

- But the difference was is I knew that the outstretched arm

of my Lord and savior was there.

And to me, my life has,

doesn't mean it's been perfect or anything like that.

Whose life is?

But I've had that deep down peace

that no one can take, you know?

They can take my life, but you know what?

I'm going to live forever eternally with my God.

And that peace does pass all understanding.

- That's right. - For the little bit

that my brain can fathom.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Amen.

- You know, as I was sitting on that couch

concerned about the safety of my family,

concerned about the future of the US.

You have this guy who can literally push a button

and really cause devastation.

What are some scriptures that I could have

sort of meditated on?

- Well, Proverbs 1 versus 20 to 33 would tell you

no fear of harm.

Matthew chapter 10, you know,

reading that verse is no fear of people, right?

Because that's exactly what I had said.

Don't be afraid what people say.

Don't be afraid what others will do.

Save your fear for God who holds our entire lives,

body, and soul in his hands.

And don't be afraid, you know, what will happen

because, you know, God has got this.

And if you're trusting him, you know, he's in control.

So whatever happens,

we're not going to be able to change certain things.

But if we're trusting him,

then we know that the holy spirit is guiding us.

And I know it's hard, and no fear of death.

We see that in Genesis 25 verses, you know,

one to 26. you know?

It's not easy, but there's so many scriptures.

And then of course, we can go through the different ones

of the do not fear,

but always knowing that Jesus is with us,

that God is with us.

This is something he's repeating, like I said earlier,

throughout the Bible to assure us, to comfort us,

to stand on that.

His word is faith, you know, he is faithful and true.

His word will not return void onto him.

And God said it, it will happen, it is true.

Just take hold of it, you know?

Be strong and courageous.

Do not be afraid or terrified because of them,

for the Lord, your God, goes with you.

He will never leave or forsake you.

Yeshua repeats that,

also it's repeat in the New Testament.

- We know that after you came to faith,

sometime after that,

you were still working as a special agent, right?

- Yes. - Yeah.

And you soon experienced the tragedy of 9/11,

and you saw the aftermath of that.

Can you share with us what you learned

about fear during that time?

- Yeah, 9/11, as we all know,

are now familiar with and we just celebrated the 20 years.

Well, not celebrated, but--

- Commemorated.

- Commemorated, yeah, that event.

It was horrific, egregious acts of 9/11.

I was actually there in rescue recovery.

And what I saw, what I went through,

we all had the PTSD.

I can remember even in the very first few days

of the first week where you had to be afraid, they made you.

Yeah, we were walking on unsolid ground

because siren could go because of the instability

of the buildings surrounding the towers.

Like the Deutsche Bank, Seven World Trade Center

off of Vesey Street, you know?

There was a lot of buildings in the sphere

of the Trade Center that were unstable now.

So if you heard that siren,

that meant you had to run as fast as you could go

because they thought maybe another building would implode.

And so, yes, there was a lot of fear.

There was a lot of trepidation.

There was a lot of angst.

But as I said in my testimony,

when I went and looked and I saw in the midst

of all of the fire, smoke, and debris,

I saw a plethora of steel like structures

that were in the shape of crosses,

and in the center was the cross that is now in the museum.

And all of a sudden,

it's like watching a movie when the lens zooms in

on what you see in the center,

and everything else starts to fade out

and be grayed out or blotted out,

and alls I could see was the cross.

And I saw the grace of God and the strength of God.

And it wasn't just my eyes that saw it

because later, people coined that place as God's house.

And and it was a place where workers and responders

would go to pray.

And so God turned around what was meant for evil into good,

even in that horrific scene of devastation.

- Darlene, as we close out this episode,

and we're grateful that we had you on this episode

and that you've been a able to share your experiences

overcoming fear with us,

there has been a lot of suffering and a lot of trauma

for the Jewish community historically

and even to the present day.

There's still antisemitism running rampant.

So how would you share with a Jewish person

who is suffering with fear and anxiety

about the peace that they can have in Yeshua?

- Well, first and foremost,

the way I look at people is,

everything has to be relational.

It has to be authentic and it has to,

a person has to feel that you care, you know?

You can't just sit there and say

or go someplace and say Jesus loves you,

Yeshua loves you,

Yeshua, Jesus is promised, you know,

as the prophets and the Old Testament,

and he fulfilled this, that,

and the other thing to a person,

you have to come and be willing to,

when Jesus says make disciples, you know,

that means you're going to be breaking bread with people.

It means you're going to be walking with them.

You're going to talk, just like Jesus.

He walks and he talks with me.

Well, you got to be doing this with people too

so that they trust you because you got to become friends.

Relationship is the key.

I always say to people,

how can and I even begin to share my relationship

with the Lord and what that means to me

and how powerful that is

if I'm not defining my relationship

and establishing one with them?

One of care, one of love, one of friendship.

And you know what?

And people listen 'cause listen to your story.

But you got to be willing to listen to theirs first.

- Amen.

- Darlene, thank you so much for joining us.

This was such a great episode,

and hearing your thoughts on this.

And Hopefully you you'll be back.

Is that okay?

Can we invite you back? - Love to, love to.

- Awesome, awesome.

Thank you so much.

- Thanks, Darlene. - Thank you,

and God Bless, everybody.

(soft music)

- The Lord told Joshua,

have I not commanded you be strong and courageous.

Do not tremble or be dismayed,

for the Lord, your God, is with you wherever you go.

Joshua 1:9.

God is with us in the same way,

and this is a comforting truth.

Fear can be paralyzing,

but when we focus on God's character,

we can trust that he is with us

working all things out for good.

We may battle fear, but we never do so alone.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of "Our Hope"

featuring Chosen People Ministry staff member, Darlene Line.

If you've enjoyed this episode,

just hit the like or subscribe wherever you're listening,

whatever action you can do,

just let us know that you've listened

and that you've enjoyed this episode.

And if you can take the time to leave a review,

we would really, really love that.

I also want to just say that this episode

was written and co-produced by Nicole Vacca,

and edited and co-produced by Grace Sweet.

This episode was also made possible

thanks to Dr. Mitch Glaser, Rachel Larson,

Kyron Bautista, and John Bautista.

I'm Abe Vasquez, until next time.

(rhythmic music)

- Thanks for listen to "Our Hope."

If you like our show and want to know more,

check out ourhopepodcast.com or chosenpeople.com.

You can also support our podcast

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See you next time.