Marisa Zapata from Novel Coffee Roasters

Artwork for podcast Beans Without Boundaries

Episode 2 • 4th April 2024 • Beans Without Boundaries • Elena Mahmood

>> Marisa: Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

>> Elena: Take the floor and tell us about you.

>> Marisa: My coworkers are leaving right now.

>> Elena: Is it the end of the day?

>> Marisa: Yeah, it's the end of the day.

>> Elena: Yeah, I got it.

>> Marisa: Which is really great.

>> Elena: It's been a long week.

>> Marisa: Yeah. Uh, well, Tuesdays are not bad. I mean, Tuesdays, Thursdays are not bad for us, um, because it's not a roasting day.

>> Elena: Mhm.

>> Marisa: Which is great. Yeah, Thursdays aren't bad. They're usually admin days. So we're able to get cleaning done. Um, we just finished. We're doing leaderboard. This is our first year doing that.

>> Elena: Oh, fun.

>> Marisa: Um, as a roasting team. And it really just shows you that you don't know that much, um, about coffee, that you think that you do. Um, but it was still kind of like stretched our brains and everything. So I hope that it's something that we continue to do moving forward, but.

Marissa Zapata got into coffee eight years ago at college

m, and just like waking up at: 05:00

>> Elena: Um.

then, um, at the beginning of: 2020

>> Elena: Um, what was your major?

>> Marisa: I was a visual communication design, which is basically a fancy way to say graphic designer.

>> Elena: Okay.

>> Marisa: But because of recession and everything. And I also was trying to figure out what I was going to do with my life. Didn't really feel like I had succeeded. Like, I had hit my point of like, oh, I made, um, m, I don't know, like, I didn't feel excited about my degree that I'd spent like, four plus years working on.

>> Elena: But I.

>> Marisa: Really loved education, so I was like, what am I going to do? Where am I going? I was burnt out in coffee because, um, I just felt like I kept being employed by people who weren't really coffee people. And, um, they cared more about the success of their business and less about the people that worked for them. And so I was just like, I don't know what to do. I don't want to be in coffee anymore, but I don't know if I want to pursue this degree that I just finished. Um, and then most people do. I was like, I'm just going to move my little, yeah, I packed up my little nissan versa with everything that I could fit. And I said, anything else I can't fit in here. Getting rid of, it's not important.

>> Elena: Right?

>> Marisa: Yeah. And I moved to north Carolina. Um, I moved there initially to go to school there to get a master's degree, um, in counseling.

>> Elena: Um, so what made you decide to go back to school?

>> Marisa: Um, it was honestly like, he's like my brother. I've known him since I was like, 13, his angelo. And he, um, invested in me personally as a human being, but also invested in my coffee journey.

I'm from Texas. I grew up in a low income neighborhood

And he was like, hey, because he's the one that got me the job, um, for this coffee shop that was opening up. He was like, hey, wanted to let you know I know you got this job because of me. And he's like, I'm planning on moving, I'm moving to south Carolina, I'm going to school and all this stuff. He's like, I'm just letting you know because I know that you're not happy here. Um, and I was like, okay, I'm going to put in my two weeks. And in that time I was like, I'm just going to put in my two weeks. And m I had enough money saved so that I could go a couple of months without having a job. So I was like, I can just keep applying for jobs until I find something. But was not thinking, oh, it's in coffee. I was like, I'm done with coffee. Um, and I think it was because I had this mindset of like, being a barista. Ah, is not a career. Um, it's not sustainable. And in a lot of ways it isn't sustainable. Um, but I was just going to, I, ah, don't know. It was a long process of how I ended up deciding, I'm going to move to north Carolina, but ultimately was like, oh, this is so like, here's this program that I'm super interested in and I'd love to get into counseling, um, to be a counselor. I grew up, um, m in a low income neighborhood. My parents never graduated high school. I was the only person in my family to seek higher education and to graduate college. So I had a lot of odds against me. My dad is an immigrant. My, um, mom became a mom, uh, when she was a teenager. So there's just all these, um, labels that were put on me, these, um, statistics that were against me of becoming a teen mom, of dropping out of school, of getting addicted to drugs. Um, so I beat all those odds. And it was only because I had adults in my life outside of my family that believed that I could, that I could overcome those ods against me. And so I was like, man, I would love to work with teenagers, kids that grew up like me. And so I was like, oh, how do you help these kids who are struggling with all of these, get educated, get educated on how you can do that? And so that's kind of what led me down to wanting to seek more education. Um, in north Carolina was also just like, I just need to get out of here. I'm from Texas. I born and raised in Texas and, um, just felt like I needed to get away from where I was at. Um, so I moved to North Carolina, had applied for a student. Like, I applied for a communications office as a junior graphic designer, um, and had an interview over Zoom was like, oh, these people really like me. I was already set on moving, so I was like, now I have a job that's going to pay me full time m and help me pay for my master's degree and all this stuff. So I was like, heck yeah, I'm set.

>> Elena: Mhm.

>> Marisa: And I moved to north Carolina, was there for like, I think I had just gotten there. I was probably a day two there, and I got an email from them saying that I didn't get the job. So I was like, oh, great, now I don't have a job and I'm here in a different state. And so I was like, what am I going to do? So I knew a couple of people in the area and was like, hey, I moved here. I think I can't find a job. Um, is there any coffee shops that I can work for until I can apply for something more full time? And everyone was like, black and white. Black and white is the only coffee that is the only coffee shop worth working for. And at the time didn't know who black and white was. Um, and was like, okay, cool, yeah, I applied for one of their locations, got an interview, um, because one of my friends worked there. He put in a good word for me and they basically hired me on the spot. And, um, working for black and white, and I tell people this all the time. Working for black and white really redeemed, um, my love for coffee and my love for the coffee industry. Um, the owners of black and white are amazing people. Um, they trust their baristas, they trust the people that they have working for them. And I felt that very early on, um, and also their coffee is just amazing. I was used to drinking mainly washed coffees, and I love that because I was a tea drinker before I got into coffee. And so these light, delicate, very high acidity coffees were just like in my realm, but working for them, I started tasting a lot of natural, processed coffees, experimental processed coffees, and it really opened my eyes to the possibilities that coffee can have and just delve really deep into that.

>> Elena: Um.

>> Marisa: But I was there for like eight months and realized that I really didn't want to be in school, that I actually needed to take time to rest because I was jumped from one degree to another degree. And, um, was like, I think because I came here, the purpose of me coming here was to get more education, and I'm not doing that. I think it's just best for me to move back, um, to Texas. And so, um. Um, I didn't feel bad about the decision. I think it was just I was stubborn, and I didn't want to believe that. Like, I wanted to believe that I could push through it. Uh, and so I moved back, uh, and with this restored faith in coffee, um, but also knew where I was moving back to and understanding that the coffee scene here in DFW is not. And it's getting better, but it's not fully developed, the appreciation within the community here is not going to be the same as it was when I was in. And so, um, you know, asked a few friends, like, hey, do you know any coffee shops I should try to apply for? And, um, I had several friends send me instagram post from this coffee shop called cherry coffee, um, and they're like, you need to apply here. Like, you need to work here. I applied, got an interview, um, and it was a great interview, um, and I later on got asked to work there, but I had denied it because I had accepted a job at another coffee shop. Uh, they did a lot of stuff. They had other concepts outside of coffee. But my thought was, okay, I can work for this bigger company that's a little bit more established, and they have a roasting thing. Because at this point, I was like, if I'm going to be in coffee, I'm not going to be at a shop anymore. I don't want to just be at a shop level. Um, and so I was like, I'm going to work at this other company that roasts coffee, because there's a way for me to start small and there's, like, an end goal somewhere I can get to that point. Um, but it was a drive, it was a commute. Um, it was about an hour there and back every day. And I was like, yeah, I got to a point where I was there the first week, um, and being like, I can't do this. This isn't sustainable for me. I moved back so that I could be closer to family, so I could rest, so I can spend time with friends. And I'm spending 10 hours a day, 10 hours of my week, um, in a car by myself. And I was like, I don't want to do this.

>> Elena: Right?

>> Marisa: I don't want to do this. I emailed catherine, who owns cherry coffee shop, and I was like, hey, I know if you've already filled the position. I totally understand, but is there any way that I can get another interview or whatever? I'm actually interested in working for you. And she said, we did fill the position. She goes, but we were actually about to post about another position being open on Monday. Oh, uh, that's awesome. If you want to come in for a second interview, that would be cool. And I was, you know, came in for a second interview, um, and then heard back, got the job.

Marissa says she encouraged her to start roasting coffee

But one of the things that Catherine asked me in that interview, because she was looking at my resume, she's like, I see that you worked at black and white. That's so cool. I love them. I just recently found out about them, think that they're great. Was telling me all about what she liked about them, and I was like, yeah, it was a great experience for me working for them. Um, and she was, uh, like, well, you have all this coffee experience. Where do you see yourself in the future? Do you see yourself staying in coffee? If so, where? And I was like, I want to roast coffee. Um, I was like, that's what I want to do. She's like, that's so cool. I've even thought about maybe I should open. Start roasting. Roasting our own coffee, all this stuff. And I was like, that's cool. And probably every week, every other week, me and her would have a meeting, because I very quickly took over our coffee, um, like, our coffee program. So I was buying all of our coffee, um, updating the team about new coffee offerings we're going to have dialing in coffees. Um, so we'd meet once a week about it, and I would just tell her, like, yeah, one day when you decide to roast, I'd roast for you. And just kind of kept bringing that up to her. And Catherine is, um, she's such a great boss. And pretty early on was telling me her vision for cherry and what she saw. She's like, this is a, uh, one of one company, like, shop. She's like, I'm not going to open multiple locations. She had worked in coffee, um, on the operational side for a different company, and was, um, able to open up cherry in two, uh, thousand and 21, and was like, I want us to be a small, big giant in the coffee world. Um, but I want to put a lot more emphasis on women, um, women owning things. A lot of our suppliers for pastries and stuff are women owned. Um, when we eventually brought on black and white as our guest roaster for our pour over program, um, it was because they have women roasters. They're people of color owned. And so that was just like, a big thing for her, was, like, um, diversity and inclusion within coffee in the coffee industry.

>> Elena: I would definitely like to talk to her as well.

>> Marisa: Oh, yeah.

>> Elena: She didn't have to link me through that. She seems really cool, too.

>> Marisa: Yeah, she's a super cool person. I'm very creative. She's the opposite. She's very, like, uh, excel sheet is her love language. I can't even look at and understand what's going on. So, uh, we work really well together. Um, but we got to a point where we were trying to look for local coffee roasters to bring on as basically bread and butter, our drip and espresso. And she's like, okay, marissa, like, I need you to go and look up either women owned or women roasted coffee roasters in Texas or north Texas or whatever. And I compiled this list of all these coffee roasters, and I said, none of these are women owned.

>> Elena: Not surprised.

>> Marisa: Um, and I was like, and only one in the north Texas area has a woman roaster. And I was like, so there's no options for us. Um, and she was like, that's crazy. She goes, I mean, maybe we should start roasting. And I was, yeah, like, just let me know. Let me know when, because I really don't like being behind bar.

>> Elena: At that point. You were pretty burnt out, probably.

>> Marisa: Yeah. And she knew that, and she gave me a lot of opportunities to host classes. So I would host cupping classes, which took me from behind bar. Um, I would do training stuff, which was super cool. But I was like, ultimately, I don't want to be here, um, because I'm not a super social person. I can be if I have to, but it was just draining. Um, yeah. And I think that's a lot of people in the coffee industry. It's just a whole bunch of introverts standing behind machines, but it's because they love coffee, I think.

>> Elena: It's also, like, a lot of coffee production people also are not big on being front of house because we've been burnt out from doing that.

year, uh, so the beginning of: 2023

How did your parents react when you decided to focus on coffee

>> Elena: I was going to ask, too. With you taking a break from going back in school and obviously kind of driving away from what you originally went to school, how did they react when you wanted to just kind of focus primarily on coffee?

>> Marisa: Um, it was hard, um, because even in the midst of going through school, I would come home and be like, I hate my job. I hate who I work for. This is like prior. But my, um, mom would just be like, well, you don't have to work. Like, you're going to school full time, it's fine. And all this stuff. But I was like, no, I'm not a quitter. And I'm just stressed because I have all these things going on. And so, um, I never felt any pressure from my parents to, um, I think they were just excited that I got a degree, whether it was an art or I was a nurse or whatever. But I think there was some expectations of, like, okay, now you have a degree, so you're going to go and pursue it. Um, and not doing that was weird. And, um, yeah, I think my parents didn't see coffee as legit, like a legit career pathway. They're like, oh, eventually you'll get out of this industry. Um, and it wasn't until I started roasting that my mom was like, okay, I get it. I have a salary job now. I have the ability to get health care, and just like, all this stuff that my mom was I think, worried about with me staying in coffee. Um, but, yeah, roasting was something I always wanted to do, I think, in the midst of the pandemic. And what's crazy is that eventually, um, Catherine told everyone, all the rest of the team, that, um, she was getting this company. And I eventually found out, and it was so surreal. So the first coffee shop I worked at, we used novel coffee roasters. She acquired novel coffee roasters, and I am now the head of, um, novel coffee roasters. So my first experience in specialty coffee, the coffee that made me think about, oh, there's these different nuances between coffee regions and different origins. Now I'm roasting for them.

>> Elena: So the coffee that was at the student cafe was novel coffee, and then. Wow.

>> Marisa: Yeah, so interesting.

>> Elena: Uh, this is not the first time we've had people on the show have these full circle moments of little snippets here and there of things from their beginning, origin, to where they're at now, all having, like, a tie. I remember Andrea's episode was talking about how she was working with Disney first, and then one of her first accounts was Disney roaster. And it was just really interesting how everybody always seems to come back to this level of, holy shit. Full circle.

>> Marisa: It was super great, because in the initial conversation I had with Catherine, when she was telling me she was getting this business, she's like, I can't tell you who it is, ceos. But, um, do you have any questions? And I was, well, what do you know what coffee. Like, what machine they roast on? And she's like, I think it's a geese in. And I was like, I know exactly who it. Like, I was know. Like, not everyone has a geesen, especially not in north Texas. And so I was this. It's novel. And, uh, the owner, Kevin, was also not very, uh, secretive about, like, we would talk on Instagram, but he started messaging me a little bit more, liking some of my posts about coffee. And I was like, he's not being sneaky. I know what's going on. And so my first day roasting, it felt like a reunion of, like, I haven't seen you in years, and here we are. Um, you're teaching me how to roast coffee. And, um, he's great. If I was like, I had an issue with something, I can text him.

>> Elena: He was your mentor.

>> Marisa: Yeah, my sensei is leaving and all this stuff, but, um, yeah, he's a great guy, and he had turned down a lot of other people who were interested in acquiring the business, and he just felt right about Catherine, he understood where she was wanting to take it, and he trusted her and was like, you know what? This is the best person to put to have this. Um, and so I've been roasting for a year. My anniversary was actually, like, two days ago. Uh, congratulations. Thank you. Um, and I'm definitely figuring stuff out every single day. But, yeah, now I'm going to show you our bags. I actually haven't happened. This is our bag, our novel coffee bag. And then this past December, we launched Cherry's own coffee line. So, um, we are basically two brands under one roof. And if you have Catherine on for the podcast, dive deep into more of, um. I'm like. Now I'm like one of three female roasters in north Texas, which is super cool.

>> Elena: It's really interesting hearing your origin story, because I found a lot of my own story throughout passages of yours. Um, sadly, mine did end differently. But it's been a year for you. Now that you've been roasting, are you also doing all of the green buying as well?

>> Marisa: Um, kind of. Catherine does most of the green buying. I communicate with a lot of our green buyers. So when we get samples in, I am sample roasting, and I will cup with my production manager. Um, we'll set up a cupping. We'll decide on coffees now, um, that we have two brands, we, um, have more to play with, which is really cool. And we're able to bring on a lot more coffees. But I think for us, our goal, um, like me and Catherine's goal is to work a little bit more. We want more transparency. Um, we're novel coffee roasters. Every coffee has a story, and we are two women who aren't always invited to the table. And so now we have this platform to be able to tell a story. And so that's kind of our goal is to try to work more directly with, um, people at origin.

>> Elena: Mhm.

>> Marisa: Um, so that we can tell their stories, so that we can say their names, um, and that people who are grabbing a bag of coffee, all of our labels have a story on them. So it's like they will actually read a story about somebody that they know, like by name. Um, and so I look for things like that, um, but I am getting better. I'm getting better at the rhythm of when do kenyan coffees, when do they hit shores here? When is harvest season? All of that. And so I'm still learning a lot of that, um, and the lingo of buying coffee. Um, so, yeah, I'm getting more and more into it because I roast, we roast Monday through Wednesday, um, Thursdays. Fridays are typically my admin days to be able to sample, roast, email people back and forth, um, about green. Um, but I do rely on Catherine a lot to make those purchases, like the final purchases for things, and, um, to keep that line of communication open in the three days that I'm kind of, like, glued to the machine. Yeah, it's fine.

I started in Starbucks back: 2014

What is your story? I know you're supposed to be interviewing me.

o I started in Starbucks back: 2014

Ricardo started podcast after being let go from a coffee job

And the stories that started coming out of these people, whether they were long stories or they were small stories, it was actually really depressing hearing how many times they've been invalidated for their experiences, or they felt unsafe in their work environments, or they don't know if they continue to work in their work environments because of the situations they're in. So I just thought about how many times, um, I can only feel empathy for those people because I've been in similar circumstances. And I was just like, man, there's all these really cool, interesting people, specifically women or queer people or people of color, that haven't had a chance to highlight their stories. So this is very in alignment, you see what I'm saying? Um, of how all I want to do is storytelling of other people's stories. So I came back from this trip, and I remember having this, like, it was just in the back of my mind, and then it all solidified and hit all at once when I was on a call with my mentor in another cafe coffee importer, and it was just a very one on one conversation, and it was meal driven. And I just felt like I wasn't supposed to be there. And that's when it really clicked where I was. Just like, there's so many times where minority people don't feel like we deserve to be on the table where everything else is set, despite how much we put into the effort for being there in the first place. And I was like, you know what I'm going to do? I just wish people would see this stuff. You know what I mean? I wish this would just be known. And I remember there were certain conversations I had with the people there, especially the women. I was just like, so this is just the norm. Like, we're just not going to acknowledge these problems. And they're just like, yeah, that's just the way that it goes. And I was just like, that's fucking bullshit. So I remember saying this to my mentor. I was like, I just want people to have conversations and bring this to awareness. And he's just like, well, start a podcast, do something about it. And then I talked to Bailey, and, um, she was already the first person on the show, on the first season, who helped bring the idea of starting a podcast specifically. And that's kind of, like, transpired into this huge evolution of getting to really know some really amazing people in the industry so far and learn so much more than I could have ever learned on my own here. Um, I will say that job ended extremely bad. And, sorry, it has now left me in a state of. It's really interesting. I've told a lot of people about this now, and they're like, so are you going to continue in the coffee world? Because, uh, I am unemployed now. I was let go and it has now changed a lot of the relationship I had to coffee, sadly. So hearing a lot of these happy ending stories, it makes me really happy for people. Um, and this is actually fairly recent. This happened on Tuesday, Wednesday.

>> Marisa: Oh, my gosh.

ow since it's been ten years.: 2014

>> Marisa: Yeah.

>> Elena: Holy. Ah. Fucking shit, man. That's crazy. Yeah. I have nothing but love for the people that work in this industry. I've just kind of grown to be a lot more cynical and bitter towards the idea that there are reaching, helping hands to help lift me up and find connections, especially in the midwest.

>> Marisa: Oh, yeah, I can't imagine. I cannot imagine.

>> Elena: It's very male centric. It's male dominant. Um, I mean, I will say this, I will preface this, that this doesn't change what I'm doing here. Right. A lot of what my friends were really worried about was like, are you going to stop doing your podcast? Because obviously I'm not going to be an active participant in this world for a while or forever along. Um, I don't know what my next job will lead me to. Um, but the closest thing that I fell in love with in the first place were the people and the community and being able to hear these amazing stories from the people that I have met and build relationships because I've made friends with some of these people off air. So it's like, it's great. Um, but, yeah, that's been my story.

>> Marisa: Yeah, I mean, that's what kept me behind bar, even though I was like, man, I hate socializing. It was having that one person come in and ask me about a coffee that I had been reading about and being able to share that information. Or when somebody would come in, they're like, I make pour overs at home, but my extraction, it, uh, tastes like this, or it tastes like that. And being able to help troubleshoot and just those small moments helped me restore faith in the coffee industry, even when I was working for people who literally could not care about me or what I was doing. Um, so I was working for black and white. I left, um, started working at. I don't even know if I started working at Cherry. Maybe I had, um, but wasn't sure if roasting was going to happen there. And I had gone back to North Carolina to just visit some friends and asked the owners of black and white if I could come and, uh, just hang out the roastery. And they were like, yeah. And, um, got to meet Kat, um, who I don't think she roasts for them anymore. She still works for them, but she's doing other things. But basically asked her, how did you get to where you're at? I've been trying for the last year, two years, to get into roasting. Was even asking people, I'll come and be a production assistant. I'll get paid part. Like, I'll work part time. Whatever it is. Just want to get my foot in the door. And she gave me advice that kind of helped me when I came back, um, to work for. When I came back, uh, to cherry, which was make whatever it is that you want to happen. Known at the beginning, she's like, that's how I got into roasting. That was her advice for me, was, she's like, I started working. She's like, I had already worked behind bar for a while, starting to work at this other coffee shop. And she's like, and I told them, I want to learn how to roast. And so if there is an availability there, I would love to do that. I know that you're hiring me to be, uh, a manager or whatever she goes, but on the cafe side, she's like, but I would love to know how to roast. And they took her up on that and they just started teaching her. Um, and that's kind of like where you were at, right? You started working in, um, a production space. Um, but I can't imagine being in the midwest. I don't even know very many midwest roasters.

>> Elena: My favorite thing is when I tell people where I'm from and they're like, oh, fuck that. Oh, man, it's got to suck.

Being an Arab living in the midwest, it's been really rough

Oh, I couldn't live out there because, um, there's too many issues out here as it is outside of the coffee world. Um, but no, it's been really fucking rough also being an Arab living in the midwest, um, or at least in the cities where it's very white or black predominant, there's very much already a little representation in the coffee industry, let alone, like, in the roasting business here. But, um, yeah, no, there was such a period of time where I was just really driven to fucking leave. I mean, I still am, but a lot of it was just like, man, I'm fucking scared. I'm scared of not being able to continue what I was doing. And I looked up to my mentor to a point where maybe it was a little bit, like, delusional, where I was like, he would tell me these stories, these amazing stories of different origin stories in Guatemala or in Costa Rica. And I was just like, man, that's a, like, that's all I wanted to do was meet these amazing people, have these kind of crazy stories. And everybody right now that's on my feed that I'm connected with in the industry right now are all at origin. And it's kind of hard for me to scroll through it right now because it's all bittersweet. I, uh, was like, I don't know how much farther I could get where the point, I was in my job, too, because I was, like, doing everything. I was fulfillment. I was doing the roasting, I was doing the cupping and education. I was also a barista at the time. I was a very swiss army knife place, because there's just a lot of logistics with this place that changed. Um, um, it went from being like a unique specialty coffee shop that had craft beverages and seasonals and seasonal shifting out specialty coffee, and a lot of emphasis on pourovers and all this other stuff too. It turned into another midwest, kind of like sugar filled plain. Uh, I say this to people, but that place kind of killed it. It killed whatever I fucking loved for that place. And then it just watered it down and it washed away. And now I'm in a place where I'm like, I come on the show and I talk to these people and they have these experiences, whether positive or negative, but it always comes down to you're going to find things you hate and you love about your job. But the reason why you stay at your job is because there are certain things in this industry that are just genuine and you kind of connect with in a certain way, whether it's people that you work with, whether it's the actual identity of the job or who you're doing it for. And that's the shit that I think I'm going to miss. Because one, um, Midwest, at least in Ohio mostly, is still very driven with second wave. So we're getting dark roasts and hella sugars in your drinks and, um, lots of toxic work environments. So it's like there's really nowhere else I feel like I can go, which sucks, because I do wish I could still continue in the industry. I just don't think I can do it. At least here.

>> Marisa: Yeah, I was going to say, have you ever thought about, sometimes it's like the thing that you're missing within your community, you have to create for yourself. Have you ever thought about doing your own thing? Like you're doing this, this is cool, but be the things that you want to see in your community?

>> Elena: Yeah, it's hard because what I really wanted to also use this platform to do was to find other arab, queer or arab minded people who had a really rough story, getting to the point where they're at and hearing them out. Because half the time it's nice hearing people for a change who it sounds fucked where you're like, man, I can really feel like that's real, that's raw, that's like your life. That's like you've been through shit and you've had a hard life and you kind of nail bitingly got your shit together and figured a way to navigate it. And that's the shit that matters to me versus candy, cookie cutter shit. And it's so hard to do it because the show, outside of obviously the audio engineering is all me. And it's been a really interesting way to traverse finding people. But it's also been hindering finding people. Because I suck at social media.

>> Marisa: I have some people I can connect you with, for sure, that would love to come onto your podcast.

>> Elena: Well, that's great, because that's what I need. I'm not kidding. I try my hardest to find really fucking interesting people that are diverse and different, and they come from different backgrounds, because that's what matters to me. Um, but, yeah, no, I will say this little snippet. Um, and I think my audio engineer has been waiting for me to fucking air this out. He's, like, laughing in the corner. Um, so I posted it on instagram, and I think you saw it where our show got nominated for an Ambie award for best diy podcast. And that was fucking crazy. We both freaked out when we got that, because out of, like, 60 to 90 people of entries throughout the country, beings without boundaries, being the baby she is, somehow got picked out of a bunch.

>> Marisa: Yeah.

>> Elena: So it's like, obviously, I feel some type of reinforcement for a lot of the things I do. I have a lot of happiness and pride for the people who have been open and honest about their journeys and wanting to share it with other people. And it's been a journey with this whole thing. I feel like I've grown so much through podcasting, through meeting people, through the industry, and obviously, no matter where I go, as much as I'd love for myself to go back on this trajectory and hopefully one day touch land in an origin and meet these amazing people, I'm just grateful to be able to live vicariously through other people.

>> Marisa: Yeah, I mean, I haven't been to origin yet. I want to, and I know that in the position that I'm in, there's a possibility for me to go, um, but because I am the only person that. I'm the only roaster here, that if I took a week off production, like, what is supposed to happen?

>> Elena: Yeah, I really felt that, too.

>> Marisa: It's a lot of pressure, um, because I'm like, man, I need to take a break. It's a lot of strain on your body. Um, and I have coworkers. They help me out, but none of them know how to roast. And so, like, for I'm. I am going to Utah in July, and I asked off almost a month and a half ago because I was like, logistically, we need to figure this out, because we need to figure it out now. Does that mean we hire somebody? Does that mean that we close down? What does closing down mean for a week? And so it is a lot of pressure, um, to feel that, um, there are times where I don't get enough sleep and I wake up in the morning and I'm getting ready to come here and turn the roaster on and get it all warmed up that I'm like, if I don't show up today, if I don't come in at all, everyone loses their job. This cannot happen. And I try not to think that way because then I put too much stress on myself. Uh, but it is a lot of pressure to do that.

>> Elena: Um.

>> Marisa: But I care so much about what I'm doing. I care so much about the happiness of the people who get these bags I help pack. On Mondays is when all of our subscription orders go out and online orders go out. And I'm just like, looking at the names. M I will go on or, uh, my production manager will tell me we have six new customers who've never ordered from us before. And I'm like, that's six people that in the span of a week found out who we were and decided they wanted to place their first order. And so I think that even though I don't see these people, it's not the same as being in a cafe, like, knowing that this is going to somebody's home and they're going to drink it and they're going to have whatever experience they have with it. Um, and they're going to post it on Instagram or whatever. Um, that's what keeps me from falling into a cynical thought pattern of, like, I'm the glue holding it together. Um, but, yeah, the idea of going to origin sounds so beautiful, and it's something I want to do just logistically. Don't know when that will happen.

>> Elena: I mean, obviously, somehow, at some point, you guys are going to need to have a backup roaster. You guys will figure that out. Obviously, this is still a pretty new operation. And, um, once you start to get the flow of how things kind of work out, and it's been a year now, so you kind of have your feet in the water. Um, it's good that you have, it seems like you guys have a good staff.

Marissa says Catherine puts a lot of faith in her employees

>> Marisa: Mhm. Yeah. Um, Catherine puts a lot of, like, I'm trying to figure out what the word is. She has a lot of faith in us and our skill sets as individuals. Um, so, like, I roast coffee, but she knows that my background is in art. So we're coming up with merch ideas for whatever for the spring. We have a marketing manager, and so our marketing manager is asking me questions about what do you think about us doing a water bottle? Or what do you think about this? Or, um, even helping her. Marissa I need more ideas of a reel to post or something. Um, but that's not my main job. Or, uh, my production assistant, um, last year, basically showed interest in wanting to learn the tech side of coffee. And so Catherine was, okay, like, we're going to send you to tech school, and you're going to learn all this stuff.

>> Elena: Crazy.

>> Marisa: Like, send him to tech school. Now he's doing all of our maintenance for our coffee shops.

>> Elena: That's amazing.

>> Marisa: Yeah. So she puts a lot of whatever it is that you're interested in. She wants to invest in that, um, which is. Yeah, I love her. I love that aspect. I love that she hears us out and wants, um, to do whatever she can to do that. Um, when I started, I have ADHd, and I didn't really realize that it was that bad until I started roasting. And I am getting distracted. Uh, a palette comes, and I'm in the middle of a roast, and I mess up, and I'm like, I don't know what to do. I'm getting distracted. And she was like, okay, we're going to get your headphones. She's like a focus mode. People will know when you have your headphones on. You can't. Nobody should come and talk to you. Okay. Um, but, yeah, she's been a great boss, um, and just has a lot of faith in the people that she hires. Um, and I think a lot of that is why she has people who work for her want to stay working.

>> Elena: There's a reason why she has a successful business going.

>> Marisa: There's a reason why other coffee people who work at other coffee shops in the area apply to try to work at her coffee shop, because they come in the community that we form together as baristas or roasters or whatever, and they want to be a part of that. Um, and so I want to be like her when I grow up. I want to be able to do something like that, but I also don't. That I could be my own boss. I don't think I'm disciplined enough to own. I don't know how she does it. She owns a coffee shop and a roastery, and, um, she has, like, I don't know.

>> Elena: Well, hopefully she'll come on the show and she'll explain.

>> Marisa: But, yeah, I definitely have. It sucks that you're in Ohio. Maybe you should move. I don't know. But.

>> Elena: You are not the first or the last person to tell me that, trust me.

>> Marisa: Because even though I'm the only female roaster in the area, there are at, ah, least three or four female owned shops in just fort Worth. And, um, there's. They all have different backgrounds, they've all come from different places, and all the concepts for every shop is different. Um, but Catherine and several other of the female owned shops in the area do this. They have this sort of, um, motto, I guess, or just this mentality of it's, um, community over competition. Like, we're not competing against each other. We're trying to build each other up. Um, next Tuesday, the shop is going to be closed. Um, on our instagram, we're going to tell everyone we're going to be closed. But here are all these other shops that you can check out while we're closed. It's just like building a community, because I think you kind of mentioned it. Like all those female roasters who.

>> Elena: Uh.

>> Marisa: It'S such a small group of us, but we all have same experience of some, um, white dude telling us that we don't know what we're talking about or disregarding us or gatekeeping things or whatever it is in the industry. There's no point in me being in the position that I'm in and continuing to keep that same lineage. So people out to me and they're like, hey, can you teach me how to cup coffee? And I'm like, uh, yeah, I'll teach you how to cup coffee. Hey, is there any way. Always wanted to learn how to roast. Is there any way that I can come and shadow you one day? I'm like, yeah. Because even if you open up your own coffee roasting operation, you're not going to get the same machine I do. You're not going to get the exact same coffee. You're going to have different practices of how you roast your coffee. So it's like me having you. If you were to come out and I'm to show you, like, I'm not spilling all these, like, no, I also.

>> Elena: Think it's like something I've seen a lot, and just. I think Ruth has touched on this. And then Zainab, also past, uh, episode, has brought up that same, exact point where when there are coffee shops, or ken, also where it was just like, coffee shops. Like, back to back, you've been in neighborhoods where there's, like, a coffee shop every four different coffee shops in the same neighborhood. But the point is, you're not going to have the same clientele. They're all going to come from different reasons. But I also think that's important that roasters do share roasting curves and help with. I love when, especially through the community that I made through the roasters retreat. Um, I'll be like, hey, I'm not sure about this roast. If I send you a sample, can you just tell me your notes? That's what I think. That should just be a part of the industry. We should just be like, hey, I'll watch you roast. Maybe there's something I can do that can help, that you've been struggling with, and vice versa.

There are certain things about roasting that do feel very alienating

That way we can make good coffee, have a good time talking about nerdy, geeky shit like roasting, and then just have good products that sell, and then maybe you'll find things are easier to do in your job than others.

>> Marisa: Yeah. And sometimes I feel like I've told this to my coworkers, but even being here in the warehouse and being on roasting days, I'm like, I feel like I'm stuck on an island by myself. I'm stressed, but nobody knows why I'm stressed. And it's like, nobody knows that whatever it is. And it feels isolating sometimes. And it's so crazy that I was in a shop where I was, uh, surrounded by, I would see hundreds of people every day and be like, oh, it's too much. Too much social interaction, social stimulation. And now I'm like, the opposite. I'm not getting enough, and I'm not having someone feel.

>> Elena: And we went from two different extremes. And it's hard to, uh, because it's like you're overstimulated too. Now. You need stimulation. And then obviously the stuff that you're doing, you could take the time to explain it, but the level of retention people will have towards what the semantics roasting is can be a little bit daunting. So then you just feel like you can't really be like, hey, this development time. Or there's something about the, like, did I soak? Do I soak? And people are like, what the fuck? A soak. I remember when I first learned, bro, when I first learned that fucking word, I was like, that's dirty. I don't like it like that word. But that's what I mean. There's just certain things about roasting that do feel very alienating. So when you do find people who are, I will say for me, specifically, when I find people who are genuine and don't try to mansplain, that's when I'm completely open to teaching people. But I think I've dealt with more of the mansplaining of, like, I don't think that's how you do that. I don't think that's how you're supposed to roast. I don't think that's how you're supposed to brew the coffee. And I'm like, you want to do my fucking job?

>> Marisa: Yeah.

>> Elena: I think overall, uh, it's an interesting job because a lot of people don't see that.

There's a pressure that's unspoken about being a head roaster

I think what you touched on was perfect, too, when you were talking about, like, there's so much pressure that's unspoken about being the head roaster, where you're just like, if one thing goes wrong, the entire trajectory of the roasting week goes fucked. And a lot of the time, ah, when you're working for other businesses, they don't keep that in mind. They just blame you for it when things go wrong. And it's hard because then you're constantly juggling, like, okay, so how do I have my own life outside of this place being like, uh, a bloodline? Because I think every head roaster or director of operations in general, nobody who actually owns a business can say, when you feel like you are tethered to a spot and it's all on you, that place somehow becomes your child. And it's really hard to compartmentalize that. But when things go wrong, it's so easy for other people to put the blame on you. So you lose your child and you get all the blame for it, despite it not being your business in the first place. So it's really hard. It's nuanced, it's intricate. And despite all of that, roasting is fun. I wish I had more opportunity to roast on a more new age machine, because when I was roasting, I was on a five kilo us roaster.

>> Marisa: Okay. Yeah, pretty small.

>> Elena: Yeah, I mean, that was the volume we were at. Um, so I never had a chance to kind of broaden out. But, man, I learned the in and outs of that fucking machine.

Marissa Love: Gas station coffee is all marketing. I think it's all marketing dumb

Uh, but, yeah, I guess now is a perfect time to pivot towards the perfect segment of the show. I think I already said a lot. There's a segment on the show where I kind of already dropped a lot of tidbits of controversy here, personally. Um, but there's always a segment on the show where it's called the hot take, and the hot take, basically, it's an opportunity for the guest, aka you, to air out something that you have as a hot take from, um, being a roaster, from being a barista working in the coffee industry, what you've seen in the systems of the coffee industry. But basically, that's the premise of the show, to bring awareness like I said. So, Marissa, what is your hot take?

I started doing this thing in: 2020

>> Elena: That would be a great series, actually. I would watch that because, realistically, the likelihood, especially out in the middle of butt fuck nowhere, like cities, the likelihood you'll probably come about at a specialty coffee shop is pretty low. But, uh, the likelihood of you coming around, like chains or what's considered, like, a good grab at the gas station. I would rather know that when I'm out versus, like, I'm just not going to drink coffee.

>> Marisa: I have tried a lot of gas Station coffee. 711 is the superior coffee of all gas station coffees. They also have nitro spouts now, which is so cool. So you can get cold brew. Like, if you don't even like hot coffee. It's, uh, crazy wild. But the guy who runs their coffee program used to be in specialty coffee.

>> Elena: That makes sense.

>> Marisa: So he's like, put in time and effort and even the graphics that they use, it's so much better than any other coffee. So that's my hot take. Go to 711, get you a cup of coffee. And also, tasting notes are stupid.

>> Elena: Yeah, I love, uh, that. That was great. It was so sweet and to the point. Love it.

People need to tip their baristas because it makes a difference

>> Marisa: I want to know what your hot take is. Do you have one currently?

>> Elena: Yeah. I will say my closing. Hot take. I haven't done a hot take in a while. Uh, fucking tip your baristas.

>> Marisa: Oh, yeah. Even if they're getting you drip.

>> Elena: I was going to say it seems like really common sense because it's like, service industry. Tip your fucking servers. Bar industry. Tip your fucking bartenders. I have had more experience with people not tipping baristas than anything. And it's actually kind of fucking ridiculous. I'm just like, fucking tip your baristas or I'm going to give you a shitty attitude every time I fucking see you.

>> Marisa: Uh, yeah, for sure.

>> Elena: You're paying for good quality customer service, not just the drink. If you give me nothing, I'm not giving you good customer service, period.

>> Marisa: No, truly. Yeah, yeah.

>> Elena: I'm already got the worst RBF, and my voice sounds like you grounded up with Dwayne the Rock Johnson. So either way, I'm already not inviting. But if you give me no money on top of it, I'm like, I'm not going to fucking be nice to you. At the end of the day, it is a job, and it is also slightly a means to an end. I have bills and baristas already from the get up, uh, at least in the midwest, don't make good money off base pay. So people need to tip their baristas because it makes a difference to pivot from that.

>> Marisa: Um, just to let you know, this, uh, quick little thing at cherry, we don't take cash. We only do card transactions. But we have a Tip jar and people are like, oh, you don't take cash, but you take cash tips. Yeah, because I want to go get McDonald's after this, and I need to survive. So tip me, please. Oh, my gosh.

>> Elena: I don't understand. Uh, I just don't get it.

>> Marisa: Uh, you're telling a barista that that's not the barista's policy. They're not the one that owns the shop. I don't know.

>> Elena: Yeah, but no, it's been amazing hearing your story and talking to you. You're really fucking cool.

>> Marisa: I think this is great. I'm going to start listening to. I hadn't listened to the podcast. I started following you on Instagram, but I'm going to start listening to the podcast because I stand at this machine all the time and I always need something to listen to.

>> Elena: You'll learn a lot, trust me. Uh, as much as I obviously don't talk as much as I did in this episode, I'm slightly changing my ways. Um, because I was always like, it's not about me, it's about the people. Um, you're going to hear some really interesting, hot takes. You're going to hear some really interesting stories and back end stories. Um, but, yeah, it's just going to keep getting better. A lot of the people that I'm looking into trying to get on the show, I've had a lot of a hard time having people just show up for interviews. But most of the time, every person we do kind of get on the show so far has just been a fucking great interview. So I'm super excited for whatever the trajectory of the second season leads to. But, yeah, it was awesome talking to you. It was awesome hearing your hot take, because now I can trust 711. And I bet a bunch of the listeners will also trust 711.

Um, but was there anything else you'd like to say before we close out

Um, but was there anything else you'd like to say before we close out?

>> Marisa: Uh, no. Uh, if you have an Instagram, if you're listening, follow my Instagram. Uh, oh, gosh, I should have really changed my handle because it's really dumb. It's four z's, A-P-A-T. It's my last name. Uh, I made it when I was, like, 16, and I thought it was so funny, and now I don't know if it's that funny anymore, but follow my Instagram. I don't ever post anything, so I don't know why you actually would, but, yeah, I don't know. Try my coffee. I put a lot of work and effort into it. Um, and then friggin I don't know where you listen. You can listen to this podcast, but if you're not subscribed to a podcast, or whatever. Go follow beans without boundaries, because it's worth it, for sure.

>> Elena: That's sweet.

>> Marisa: Thank you. But thank you for having me on. This is so cool. I've never done anything like this before.

>> Elena: Yeah. Um, hopefully you had a great experience.

>> Marisa: Yeah, I did.

>> Elena: So I will let you go. We have been chatting for, I think, about an hour and a half, 2 hours. So this was really great. Um, I completely fell in love with your story, and I have nothing but really high hopes for cherry coffee, um, for novel coffee roasters. And I do hope that you do end up going to origin because you have to go for both of us now.

>> Marisa: Yeah, I will. For sure.

All right, well, I'll let you go. I know that you were probably working, so have a great rest of your evening

>> Elena: All right, well, I'll let you go. I know that you were probably working, so have a great rest of your evening.

>> Marisa: Yeah, you too.

>> Elena: What a great episode. I love when I don't have to conduct the interview. It just flows out naturally. Makes me so happy. Um, I did drop a lot of information in this episode. She also dropped a lot of information in this episode, but was most of her personal story, which I think is great to see women persevering and striving towards something that they have interest and believe in and going against what society says it should be versus what they want out of their life. And it goes to show that even if you feel like you're working towards a degree, you're trying to do the right thing, but if something comes in the way and you feel like it's calling to you, just follow where that goes. Like you might, uh, end up in a situation where, yeah, the journey might be long, but having that end result of just feeling like you're working with a good group of people, having a good leadership behind you, because that's essentially what I kept getting the vibe from. And then falling in love more with your craft that you're doing, it's going to put you on alignment towards wherever it is that you're trying to go. Um, but it was a great episode. I just a genuinely great person, um, in regards to the stuff that I talked about. Yeah, all this stuff was true. Um, the wound was pretty fresh, so felt like I didn't really think I could talk about it, so it just ended up happening that way. Podcast, they're just therapy sessions. You should see me behind the scenes. I'm even worse. My therapy sessions. Um. Um, I will say as a disclaimer, if I ask you to be on the show, I need you to please just show up or just not commit. I'm so sorry, but it's wasting time I really do a lot of research to the people I look for. I'm super interested in, uh, hearing your personal stories. I'm also very understanding if there are other things affecting that. But effective communication is also good for the trajectory of having episodes recorded for my personal sake. So if you can't show up, please just say that you can't show up versus just last minute. Either not showing up at all or asking to reschedule. Finito. That's it till the next one.

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