Hey there, Common Sense Ohio listeners! It's Norm, Steve, and Brett, back at it again with another episode of our show. We've got a lot to cover today, so grab a cup of coffee in your Harper Plus Accounting coffee mug, and let's dive in.

We kicked off the show with a hot topic - misconduct in sports. We dished out our thoughts on the differences between a coach's misconduct (looking at you, Jim Harbaugh) and player cheating. We didn't hold back on the Ohio State scandal and its aftermath, digging deep into the leaders’ responsibilities and deniability in such situations. Plus, we couldn't resist comparing it to the Penn State scandal and the lack of proper action. We touch on NCAA violations, the impacts of the new name, image, and likeness (NIL) rules on college sports, and the repercussions for individuals and universities.

You know we couldn't resist dipping our toes into political waters. We discussed Governor Abbott’s actions at the border and his invocation of the 10th Amendment. It got pretty intense, with mentions of historical conflicts between state and federal governments, and even a Supreme Court case from the pre-Civil War era.

From there, we dived into immigration laws, border security, and the potential need for the US Supreme Court to intervene. Of course, we didn’t shy away from expressing our frustration with federal laws not being enforced. We even delved into the economic and social impacts of large-scale immigration.

But hey, it's not all politics and serious stuff! We also geeked out about historical events like World War II's Battle of Stalingrad and delved into an interesting movie recommendation, "Enemy at the Gates."

So, grab that coffee mug, settle in, and get ready for an episode packed with common sense discussions. Don’t forget to engage with us on social media – we love hearing from our fellow Common Sense Ohio enthusiasts. We're always aiming for common sense!

Memorable Moments

00:00 Discussing World War 2 history and battles.

05:41 Hitler plans to capture oil fields

10:20 Soviet city destroyed, turned into a battlefield.

19:34 Ohio State grabbed several players in the player portal.

27:08 Disproportionate penalties for Ohio State football scandal.

34:40 Border protection and immigration enforcement challenges escalate.

37:05 Unprecedented situation of federal government defying laws.

46:37 Immigration must be lawful and controlled.

55:13 Presidents defended liberal laws with attorney generals.

01:00:02 Debating economic invasion and defiance of the law.

01:03:19 Supremacy clause and federal preemption in law.

Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.

Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.

Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.

Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.

info@commonsenseohioshow.com

A Big Thanks to our sponsor, Harper Plus Accounting. They provide more than just basic transactions, offering expert business consultation as well. They go beyond the basics, providing comprehensive advice on saving, planning, and optimizing taxes.

Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio

Steve Palmer [: 00:00:00

Checking my watch here for January 26, 2024, Common Sense, Ohio coming in your way today, Friday, January 26, 2024. For those who don't know yet and those regular listeners who already do, please just bear with me as I issue the standard public service announcements. That is, you can find all our back shows at commonsense ohio show.com. Show did I just say that? Show.com. And we are sponsored, of course, by Harper Plus Accounting. My accountant could be yours, not just he can do the processing. He can do the transactional. He can get your tax return filed, and you'll know it'll be done right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:00:33

But he can make sure all the information that you put in your tax is accurate. Now that's the trick, isn't it? So garbage in, garbage out. And if you think H and R Block on the corner with the guy flipping the signs around is gonna do what Harper Plus does, Sorely mistaken. Now you may not need all that, and that's okay. He can help you. But I happen to do I happen to need the extra, and he supplies it expertly. So Harper Plus Accounting, thank you for your ongoing sponsorships. And as those watching on TV see that we have a Harper Plus coffee mug.

Steve Palmer [: 00:00:59

Mhmm. Look

Norm Murdock [: 00:01:00

at that. Wait. Next time

Brett Johnson [: 00:01:01

we get Glenn down here, we'll have him bring a box of these.

Steve Palmer [: 00:01:04

Yeah. Yeah. Well, let me

Brett Johnson [: 00:01:05

Put it all around the table.

Steve Palmer [: 00:01:06

He he is the sponsor. We should get something out

Norm Murdock [: 00:01:08

of it.

Steve Palmer [: 00:01:10

Anyway, so we are, rock and roll, bringing you common sense, right from the middle here. As as those who follow the show now know, I do a quick little World War 2 segment every week, and that's because back when I was, back in the nineties when I was in law school, I'd read the the What used to be a newspaper, The Columbus Dispatch, and that was maybe a marginal and never mind. It was a great newspaper back in the nineties. And they always had a 50 years ago today in history, and it was always a little blurb on World War 2 so that, I I remember that even this this this that long ago. So that's what we're doing here. And today, we Norman and I are gonna talk a little bit about Stalingrad, but I think it's important to note that, the Battle of the Bulge, which we've talked about since before Christmas, ended today officially. So the bulge, for those who don't know, was it was literally named after a bulge that was pushed into the, allied lines. It looked like a big tongue, and Hitler was trying to get all the way to Paris, but, you know, sort of like you know, nor not unlike our market garden.

Steve Palmer [: 00:02:08

It was just a bridge too far.

Norm Murdock [: 00:02:09

Yeah. Yeah. He he was trying to get But I I get you. Well, he he was not Paris. But

Steve Palmer [: 00:02:14

Well, he thought he could get all the way to Paris.

Norm Murdock [: 00:02:16

Yeah. He was trying to get to that port, to stop, at the allies from bringing in stuff. Because we had still not really, gotten any main ports Until then in Antwerp. Like, even though we landed in Normandy, it's you know, we we didn't have Calais. We didn't have balone. Those ports were still in German hands. Yep. So, Antwerp was where the main supplies were landing in huge amounts.

Norm Murdock [: 00:02:48

And, and so the best troops that the Americans and Brits had was were located in the northeast part of France and, Belgium And even somewhat into Germany, into Aachen, Germany. And so the idea was to replay the World War one, Trick of going through the Ardennes and then cutting behind all of these the main troops of, of the United States and England, go behind them, sweep behind them, and go into Antwerp, and go through this, Rest and relaxation area of the Ardennes where they put inexperienced troops and troops recovering from heavy battle. So it was very thinly defended, and people were like, oh, nobody's gonna come through here.

Steve Palmer [: 00:03:44

Right. It's too Just like they said world war one.

Norm Murdock [: 00:03:47

Just like they said world war one. And and, you know, of Course von Rundstedt and all those German generals were like We did this before. Man, you think they're you know, so they just bypassed, It you know, the strong points and and and went behind the allied lines, and they got, like, halfway to Antwerp Before they ran out of gas.

Steve Palmer [: 00:04:06

Yeah. They ran out of gas. Their their plan required them to capture allied fuel

Norm Murdock [: 00:04:10

Dumps.

Steve Palmer [: 00:04:11

And fuel dumps and and use our resources. And And

Norm Murdock [: 00:04:13

they thought that they got Some, but not

Steve Palmer [: 00:04:15

not enough. Not enough. Mhmm. Yeah. Patton, of course, famously came up from the South, cut them off, and the rest is, as they say, history.

Norm Murdock [: 00:04:22

And and and they ran into some really hard points like, Bastogne, and, they couldn't get through there. Right? You know? So so got bogged down. They got bogged.

Steve Palmer [: 00:04:32

That was precious time too because that's where they still had cloud cover that I mean Yeah. You know, to some extent, you would have to say they they they had fortune on their side initially. Yeah. But that quickly dissipated.

Norm Murdock [: 00:04:43

And in in in inexplicably, they didn't bypass To Bastogne.

Steve Palmer [: 00:04:46

They could've.

Norm Murdock [: 00:04:47

And they could've. There there was actually a circle freeway You you you wonder around Bastogne. Like like, they could've gone around it. But, You know, we'll talk about Stalingrad.

Steve Palmer [: 00:04:57

Same kind of thing. Right? Same kind of blunder.

Norm Murdock [: 00:04:59

Just just like, no. You will Stay there and obliterate the enemy and go right up, you know, hey, diddle, diddle, right up the

Steve Palmer [: 00:05:06

Ego. Right? How dare you say nuts to my center surrender demand. Right?

Norm Murdock [: 00:05:10

So we'll Spend a couple of months here fiddle farting with the allies instead of proceeding Right. You know, on with their plan.

Steve Palmer [: 00:05:18

So

Norm Murdock [: 00:05:19

good for us.

Steve Palmer [: 00:05:20

Yeah. Well, we

Norm Murdock [: 00:05:21

I'm glad they did it.

Steve Palmer [: 00:05:22

And we were able to bag all the best. What was whatever's left, it was was sort of decimated. So Yeah. Anyway, They ran out of energy or they ran out of resources. They ran out of everything and ran out of men, and, eventually, that was over. But we were gonna you were gonna talk a little bit about Stalingrad.

Norm Murdock [: 00:05:36

Yeah. Just a little bit.

Steve Palmer [: 00:05:37

At the same time or not at the same time, but this time of year, Stalingrad was going on.

Norm Murdock [: 00:05:41

Oh, yeah. Right. It it was just about to end. And So they the, Friedrich von Paulus, the commander of the 6th army, whom split Hitler had split off, he had 2 armies that were gonna go south and capture, Sure. The oil fields in, Azerbaijan, I think it was. But but, anyway, they were heading the south, And they were gonna capture these oil fields, which the German are we just talked about fuel, right, for the Battle of the Bulge. So they needed fuel, and, they they you know, Germany doesn't have a lot of, oil, so they had to get it elsewhere just like Japan had to get oil elsewhere. So Hitler decided, look at this on the map.

Norm Murdock [: 00:06:29

There's a city named after Joseph Stalin, You know, my arch enemy. Mhmm. Well, why don't I divide my 2 armies, send 1 down, the central part of Russia, And and send the other one, you know, half as many people down to get the oil fields, and he ended up getting neither one. Yeah. And all the ego.

Steve Palmer [: 00:06:49

All the ego. Because, you know, the Stalingrad, while it was it was, tritely named after Stalin, I suppose, it was not a a real, the better military target would have been the oil fields.

Norm Murdock [: 00:07:01

Yeah. So in in in the Soviet revolution, Stalin himself self had commanded troops in Stalingrad then called Volvo Volgograd. And after Khrushchev destalinized the Soviet Union, It went back to being called Volgograd. It was called it is still called Volgograd, and I visited there on a charity rally, a car rally. But at any rate, Stalin had defended against the white, Russian army, the the army loyal to the monarchy, in the Romanov family. The, and he had defended Stalingrad for a couple of years. And so they you know, he was such a a monster. The people of, Volgograd were like, Hey.

Norm Murdock [: 00:07:48

Let's let's figure out a way to please this guy because he's he's killing people willy nilly, you know, with his NKVD under Laurentia Baria. You know, just you can read Solzhenitsyn about the Gulag and and how they would literally just pull people out of their homes and and say you're guilty of something, and then away they would disappear or be shot. And it was he was terrorizing his own population, and so they decided to name the city after him. Like, you know, hey. We're good guys. We're on your side. You know? Right? So

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:23

Well, Stalingrad, incredible story. But more than what we have to discuss it really, but, yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:08:28

So just in a nutshell, I brought in this little artifact when I went to Stalingrad. There's a museum there called the Panorama Museum. This is the remains of a Soviet mortar, an 82 millimeter, mortar, which is medium sized. The, you know, the the weapon part of this is would be up here, you know, the explosive part, And this is just the tailfin remains of it. Like, this is Yeah. The the the this is after it blows up, this is the only thing that might be left. And this is dated 1942. And, of course, Von Paulus surrendered 5 days from now, you know, In January, the the the 30th 31st.

Norm Murdock [: 00:09:14

On 30th, he became a field marshal, And Hitler's theory was he'll commit suicide if I make him a field marshal because no German field marshal in German history, going back to Bismarck, None of them had ever, surrendered. Right? And so he wanted the 91,000 German troops left in Stalingrad To fight to the bitter end, not surrender, and he made he he promoted Paulus the day before Paulus surrendered. And, you know, Paulo said, I'm not committing suicide. I'm a Christian. I I I don't believe that Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:09:50

That was a yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:09:51

Yep. Can can't can't commit to

Steve Palmer [: 00:09:52

the death

Norm Murdock [: 00:09:52

because I'll never get to heaven. Whatever.

Steve Palmer [: 00:09:54

The Germans, you know, he he decided to Hitler decides to invade and and push that campaign, I think, late in the summer. I forget when it started, but late in the summer. And it was and he the soldiers were ill equipped. Their boots weren't sufficient. And I think they had, like, metal in them that were just they call it so they would sound cool when he would march. And, you know, it's all about that sort of pomp and circumstance with Hitler, the ego stuff. And that medal, I think, conducted the the cold. Right? And there I mean, it just it was brutal cold.

Norm Murdock [: 00:10:20

Right. So so what the Soviet Union After after this set piece battle in Stalingrad that went on for the the German Luftwaffe bombed that That city, it of a half a 1000000 people. After this was over, only 1500 people were left in the city. Yeah. They had all left or been killed, And the Luftwaffe had completely laid waste to the city under the same theory, like we talked about Monte Cassino, that if you bomb them, You know, in the rubble that, you know, you'll just roll in and they'll give up. Well, the rubble created perfect defensive locations for a close quarters battle by the Soviets against the Germans. So, like, it yeah. He destroyed the city, But he also created, like, this, this rat war, they called it, between the Soviet troops and the civilian population against the Germans.

Norm Murdock [: 00:11:15

The Germans lost 500,000 men. The Soviets lost almost a 1000000 men. Of the 91,000 Germans that surrendered, only 6,000 returned from the Gulag from the prisoner before. That just yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:11:31

I mean, it's like there was no surrender to to Stalin. You know?

Norm Murdock [: 00:11:34

He just used them up. I'm sure they built roads or railroads or what. You know? Like, they were prison labor, and only 6,000 returned in After the war. And Apollos himself, during the war, became a a propaganda tool by the Soviets. He would get on the radio, say bad stuff about Hitler. Right?

Steve Palmer [: 00:11:54

Really? I didn't know that.

Norm Murdock [: 00:11:55

Yeah. Yeah. So they flipped him. He ended up living in the Soviet Union After the

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:00

war. Interesting.

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:00

Oh, voluntarily. Interesting. Yeah. Wow.

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:03

Well, great great stories there. A movie, Enemy at the Gate. You ever see that movie with,

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:07

Oh, yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:08

Yeah. It's a good little sniper movie, but Yeah. Probably overblown or or overdramatized.

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:13

With Ed Ed Harris?

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:14

Ed Harris.

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:15

And,

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:16

the guy in Sons of Anarchy, was in that too.

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:19

Yeah. Gosh. The the guy who was in Cold Mountain or Gosh. What's his name?

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:26

Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:26

I can't think of it either. British actor. Great great actor. He played the Soviet marksman, and Ed Harris played the German marksman. Yeah. I get it. Yeah. He was the he was the confederate soldier that returned home to, In in that

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:44

Jude Law was in it. Jude Harris

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:45

Thank you.

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:46

Joseph Fives was in it. Yep. Ron Perlman was in it as a sort of, I think, Jude Law's, He was the mentor sniper.

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:53

He was the sniper, and, A massard that was making him a hero in the newspapers. But it's it's based on kind of true incidents. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:13:07

It's it's interesting. Interesting. Anyway, we the show goes on here. So Yeah. We'll turn the corner and talk about some news. I know there's lots going on. There's some legal stuff happening. But,

Norm Murdock [: 00:13:15

Can I can I can I throw something out? No. I don't you know, I Of course you could. I'm not I'm not basically an Ohio State fan. Okay. And it's not because I dislike Ohio State. It's just I'm I'm not originally from Columbus, and so I don't have that baked into my, psyche. But I'd like to say something, like, in defense of Ohio State here. And and and the occasion is this Jim Harbaugh going to the LA chargers.

Norm Murdock [: 00:13:41

So he's pulling a Pete Carroll. He's got this big scandal at Michigan, right, where they intercepted signs, Deliberately Mhmm. Stole signs Mhmm. About the play calls, right, which which affects the outcome of the game. I mean, it's like Pretty much.

Brett Johnson [: 00:13:57

Yeah. And and the whole season, quite frankly, it taint it taints it if nothing else.

Norm Murdock [: 00:14:01

Yeah. So he gets suspended 5 games. The n c two a has not dropped the full hammer on Michigan's program yet. Of course, they won the national championship, And I'm just thinking back to the tattoo five. Right? Mhmm. Terrell Pryor or yeah. Terrell Pryor and the other 4 students who had their Big 10 championship taken away. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:14:26

Jim Tressel lost his job. Their individual n c two a records We're also wiped off the books. And, of course, what they were accused of was, you know, profiting by selling their personal items to a tattoo guy to get tattoos. Right? And now, of course, all that's legal. Like, players can get paid now. Right? And I'm thinking, wait a minute. The the the enormity of that crime pales in comparison to what Trestles, I mean, what Harbaugh is running away from. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:15:01

And I think it's high time for the n c two a to restore to Ohio State It's Big 10 championship. It's 12 in 1 season record Yeah. For the 2010 season, And, to lift all these bans and, you know, all this

Steve Palmer [: 00:15:17

Yeah. Well, that's

Brett Johnson [: 00:15:18

that's that's season. They they they got outright On their own, they didn't steal signs.

Norm Murdock [: 00:15:23

They didn't steal signs.

Brett Johnson [: 00:15:24

They they they just did yeah. They did improper things, but it didn't affect The games they played.

Norm Murdock [: 00:15:30

They did things which now are totally okay to do.

Steve Palmer [: 00:15:34

Yeah. But that doesn't make it right back then. And and back then, I mean, there There was precedent before the Ohio State situation. I know Tennessee had a big scandal where people were selling jerseys and some other stuff. So there was some precedent that the the NCAA was ratcheting up on that kind of stuff at the time. So let's look at the back.

Norm Murdock [: 00:15:49

Horrified, man. You're a defense attorney.

Steve Palmer [: 00:15:52

So not only that, Norm. I was I know a lot about that case for reasons I can't go into. No.

Norm Murdock [: 00:15:55

That's fine. But yeah. No. So I'm talking about the parts of the case that are on the record, Not not what's off the record.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:01

On the record, the n c, double a, was cracking down on that kind of stuff at the time.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:06

Right. Like we used to crack down on recreational marijuana.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:10

Well, that's right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:11

So, no, if you're not going

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:12

back and exonerating everybody Oh, yes. They are. No. No. We're not.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:15

Oh, they're going Oh, yes. They are. They're gonna wipe all that off.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:18

No. They won't.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:19

Jimmy Carter, Jimmy Carter pardoned all the draft dodgers that went to Canada. We have gone back has

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:26

pardon Biden has pardoned up some of the marijuana people, but most of the look. There's we we can go down a rabbit hole.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:31

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:31

But most of the marijuana cases that came in that come in the federal variety Uh-huh. Aren't just mere possession of marijuana cases. They're typically, conspiracy to traffic. They're gonna be money laundering. There's gonna be tax problems associated with them.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:45

Not talking about those.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:46

Alright. Well, those are

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:47

I'm talking about recreational use.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:48

9% of 99.9% of the federal marijuana cases are of the ilk that I'm describing. Yeah. Very few federal marijuana cases are gonna be mere possession cases. Now there might be Some I've done a few misdemeanors in, like, in, national parks.

Norm Murdock [: 00:17:02

I'm talking about state law.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:03

Okay. So state law.

Norm Murdock [: 00:17:04

We we just passed this constitutional amendment. Right? Recreational marijuana in Ohio is legal.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:10

I don't think that's gonna result in a pardon or a full forgiveness if anybody's got a marijuana conviction. I just don't.

Brett Johnson [: 00:17:15

It's gonna be tried, though. They'll try.

Norm Murdock [: 00:17:17

And I think and Steve And see

Brett Johnson [: 00:17:18

where it stands.

Norm Murdock [: 00:17:19

I think

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:19

I think there's there's already a mechanism to do this. You can expunge records and you can seal records.

Norm Murdock [: 00:17:23

And I think so.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:24

But not felonies of the 1st degree. So what do you do with somebody who back in the day had was bringing in a £1,000 a month from California and or Mexico. You're gonna pardon that person?

Norm Murdock [: 00:17:34

Dude, I'm not talking about I'm talking recreational use. Oh. That that that's what's now linked.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:38

Recreational use is already they're they don't have to be pardoned. They just get their records expunged or sealed.

Norm Murdock [: 00:17:43

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:44

I mean, they can already do that.

Norm Murdock [: 00:17:45

So I'm talking about exploring misdemeanors. I'm talking about ex well, I I traded a football to a tattoo partner.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:52

Let's get back to the tattoo partner.

Norm Murdock [: 00:17:53

To get an effing tattoo.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:54

Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:17:55

Right? That's a misdemeanor to me.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:57

Oh, look. It it was they were getting something of value Yes. For their

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:03

Own personal property.

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:04

For their property. Right. That's right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:05

Not Ohio State property.

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:07

That's right. Right. So they were getting something of value for their own personal property. The n c, double a, was cracking down on it. And, look, I I don't disagree with the n c, double a, and cracking down. I don't know what I think of this. I I I I'm starting to develop some disdain for this name, image, likeness, the new rules. Because what we're ending up with are gonna be, like, Two, maybe 3 super conferences in the United States

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:27

Oh, yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:27

And people Yep. Just flat out paying college recruits to come play. And that's what Ohio State's done this year. We've got a Phenomenal recruiting class, and that's what Michigan did

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:34

to serve. So if you're a bad disciplining and you're getting recruited by, say, Kent State

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:39

Mhmm.

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:39

And Ohio State. Mhmm. And you're and you're thinking, well, gosh, which one would make a souvenir card, right, with that I can make $1,000,000 off of if I'm, the next, you know,

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:52

Joe Biden. Already existed

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:53

to Boesen.

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:54

That already existed to some extent because if if you're somebody that could go to either couldn't

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:58

make money off of it.

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:59

If you're if you're if you're somebody that could either go to Kent State or Ohio State, you're always gonna choose Ohio State because your chances of onward progression within the football

Norm Murdock [: 00:19:06

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:07

Area or within the football career is gonna be greater. It's the people who they're stealing from other schools That's going to that that's what makes this a little more difficult. Ryan?

Norm Murdock [: 00:19:17

I'm trying to give

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:18

an example there. Portal.

Norm Murdock [: 00:19:19

They're they're they're gonna they're gonna they're gonna so they have a good year at Kent state. They go in the portal, come to Ohio State, and they and they get all this problems.

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:27

Even bother me so much. It's when you're stealing from your rivals. So it's like, now we've taken a bunch of Alabama players, and that makes sense because Saban retired.

Norm Murdock [: 00:19:34

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:34

And Ohio State grabbed, like, 4 or 5 of their of their players, or I think that's about 3 or 4 anyway. Yeah. And I love it because I'm an high estate fan, and I I I think it's awesome. But, you know, from a from a different perspective, you can sort of see this emerging where, it's going to be another arms race with who can pay the most in their name, image, likeness, fund. Right. Who's got the most backing? Right. And we wanna go there. And, you know, that's like In which case,

Norm Murdock [: 00:19:59

you don't have to trade your football on your shelf for a tattoo. You can pay cash Because because maybe you got a couple $1,000,000.

Steve Palmer [: 00:20:06

What's it do to college football? It turns college football football into pro football. And Right. Eventually, that's what's gonna happen.

Norm Murdock [: 00:20:12

Exact so since the n c two a has done that. I think they need to go back and recognize that what they did to these guys was disproportionate To what to what their crime was. They were taking their personal property and waddling up high street to a tattoo parlor.

Steve Palmer [: 00:20:30

There was more to it than that. It was Ohio State's response to the problem that that spurred some some negative attention from the NCAA. And I'm not gonna go into detail about it, but, you know, I think it things might have been a little bit different if Ohio State took some different action on its own Okay. Locally speaking.

Norm Murdock [: 00:20:50

So the point is Jim Harbaugh is just like Pete Carroll flew away from the USC

Steve Palmer [: 00:20:55

None of this is to say Jim Harbaugh doesn't didn't screw up. I mean, they screwed up in by I agree with you a 100%. What what Michigan did here is cheat. Yes. They cheated.

Norm Murdock [: 00:21:05

Right? USC paid, Reggie Bush money

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:11

Yeah. To go win. Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:21:12

To to play for USC. See. Like, here's money for your parents. Here's money for your apartment.

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:17

Pete Carroll with his little smile and his California attitude and Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:21:20

He goes up Seattle, it escapes the whole thing. Yep. Jim Tressel couldn't even get an assistant job Well, I mean over at the Colts It's it's not

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:28

it was You can't I mean, look. You can't blame Pete Carroll or Jim Harbaugh for having NFL

Norm Murdock [: 00:21:34

No. But I can blame

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:35

characteristics. Right. But I mean, Trestle didn't. He wasn't an NFL coach.

Norm Murdock [: 00:21:39

Right. But what the n c two a did was they contacted the The NFL and said, we want you to not allow Tressel to be an assistant coach. Like, they they went after him I don't think jugular.

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:52

I don't think

Norm Murdock [: 00:21:53

And he was kicked off the, the Indianapolis Colts coaching roster because of the n c two a request. Okay. So so all on Okay.

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:02

Fair enough. I didn't know that.

Brett Johnson [: 00:22:03

Oh, yeah. That he is.

Norm Murdock [: 00:22:04

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then he became president of YSU as we know.

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:08

Yeah. I mean, look.

Norm Murdock [: 00:22:09

It's it's it's So I love how you are doing both sides

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:13

of my brother. Some extent, it's apples and oranges. You've got a different year, a different time, and I think Harbaugh's conduct here Yeah. Is more egregious and not comparable. I think in That's right. To some extent, I'm making your point

Norm Murdock [: 00:22:25

That's right. In a

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:26

different way. I mean

Norm Murdock [: 00:22:27

Thank you. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:28

You know, stealing sides and cheating to win games is different than players making a little bit money on the side.

Brett Johnson [: 00:22:33

If I were a player that would piss me off, I would wanna leave. But you don't have that kind of support that we can get the job done. You have to cheat for us

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:41

Now you have to

Brett Johnson [: 00:22:42

get the job done. And they're now now our record is tainted.

Norm Murdock [: 00:22:45

And they're national champions.

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:46

Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:22:46

And the NC two a is not gonna take that away. They might. No. I hope they do.

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:50

Ohio State won the Sugar Bowl that year, and later on later on True. The shoe the shoe fell.

Norm Murdock [: 00:22:54

And they not only took

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:56

over, I think.

Norm Murdock [: 00:22:57

Yes. It was. Not only did they take away that win in the shoe Sugar Bowl. Right? So it's off the books. Ohio State had to return all the revenue from that bull game.

Steve Palmer [: 00:23:07

There was a big sanction.

Norm Murdock [: 00:23:09

Holy crap.

Steve Palmer [: 00:23:09

Yeah. You know, there there's another interesting you know, We draw some parallels to World War 2. There's another interesting, philosophical consideration running through this, and that is Harbaugh's gonna claim I didn't know what was going on. That's right. And, you know, it was my assistance. I didn't know. And, you know, it raises this this specter of, like, wait a minute. Where where does deniability come into play? Plausible deniability.

Steve Palmer [: 00:23:35

When can a leader look the other way? Or when, even if the leader didn't know subjectively? And maybe Harbaugh's telling the truth he didn't know. Does is he still responsible for not knowing when he should've. And, you know, the you know, this you can't

Norm Murdock [: 00:23:48

Joe Paterno in that, in that freak Same thing. That freak, that that went into the locker room.

Steve Palmer [: 00:23:53

Yeah. The all those guys should have been absolutely skewered. Right. That was the most egregious pass that anybody's ever gotten. And, I mean, look. All those guys. Right. And they were getting complaints.

Norm Murdock [: 00:24:03

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:03

It's like, hey. Guess what? Penn State, There might be some child molesting going on in the showers.

Norm Murdock [: 00:24:09

Yeah. Oh, we can't

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:11

about how quiet it was.

Brett Johnson [: 00:24:12

Exactly. And it can't

Norm Murdock [: 00:24:13

oh, that can't be true. I know that guy.

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:16

Yeah. We know him. I'm never never would. I mean, yeah, he's been in the shower with some kids before, but, you know, we don't think anything's going on. And we talked to him, And he said no.

Norm Murdock [: 00:24:23

They're just so good. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:24

Exactly. Yeah. We're all good. They're saying it's a grossest year.

Norm Murdock [: 00:24:27

That was awful. Right? And

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:29

Absolutely gross. So, look, I don't know what's gonna happen to Harbaugh in in Michigan. No. Absolutely.

Norm Murdock [: 00:24:33

You

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:33

know, I I don't know.

Norm Murdock [: 00:24:35

Not at

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:35

all. I tend I I I hope that you're wrong.

Norm Murdock [: 00:24:39

I hope

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:39

I'm wrong. You're probably right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:24:41

Yep.

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:41

I'm not positive yet.

Brett Johnson [: 00:24:43

And, you know, and I'm sure you say it the same way too. It's not just because it's Michigan.

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:46

That's right. No. What I what I'm worried don't

Brett Johnson [: 00:24:49

do this.

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:50

What I'm worried is that they're laying off of this because everybody's doing it. And they just don't wanna uncover a rot that is gonna be, way too much. You know? So there may be some there may be a snake in the grass here. I don't know. Wow.

Norm Murdock [: 00:25:01

Yeah. Why why do they all hold that play card up to their mouth Oh, sure. Right. Can't read their load. Sure. Sure. Oh, yeah. Because people are watching them.

Steve Palmer [: 00:25:11

Well, this was crazy, though. I mean, this guy, what's his name? Connor going to, he

Norm Murdock [: 00:25:14

had a staff of 13 volunteers. Going to gain for their

Steve Palmer [: 00:25:18

When he's on the sidelines dressed in, like, a costume wearing the other team's it wasn't a high state, but we're in another I forget who it was. It was like a b like a lower tier school, like Kent State or something. And he's wearing their uniform shirt, and he's got these glasses on and a hat. It's freaking awesome.

Norm Murdock [: 00:25:31

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:25:31

I I want you know, hats off hats off. True creativity. A for creators.

Norm Murdock [: 00:25:35

It was like

Steve Palmer [: 00:25:35

He's on the Sidelines. Like as one of their coaches.

Norm Murdock [: 00:25:39

Like a CIA operation. It was that's that's ridiculous. Yeah. So

Steve Palmer [: 00:25:43

Anyway I don't know the details well enough, but, look, I hope that there's a sanction. I doubt it wouldn't surprise me if there's not.

Norm Murdock [: 00:25:49

So Harbaugh's sailing off. Michigan offered him a 125,000,000 to stay For a 10 year contract and, would have made him one of the highest again coaches again.

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:00

Well, you know, Michigan, they are losing a lot of people. Mean, all the Michigan fans say, no. We're just reloading, and we still got the team. We got but I you know, I think that he's sorta geared up for this 1 or 2 seasons in in

Brett Johnson [: 00:26:12

His aspirations NFL then, and then you go.

Norm Murdock [: 00:26:14

I mean, how

Brett Johnson [: 00:26:15

many how many opportunities do you have to go to the NFL?

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:17

Do you want that? I mean, if

Brett Johnson [: 00:26:18

that's what you want, you better take it.

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:20

And and look, Hats off to Harbaugh for other reasons. He's he's the guy on the front lines, out there pushing a pro life agenda. Have you watched have you seen any of this?

Norm Murdock [: 00:26:30

Oh, yeah. Yeah. He

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:32

he he

Norm Murdock [: 00:26:32

emailed or announced to his players that if they got involved in the, you know, an out of wedlock birth, situation or pregnancy that he and his wife personally would adopt that job.

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:45

And more recently, he was, he was marching in favor of People freak out. Yeah. So, look, that that takes in Takes at a place like Michigan, you know, where that kind of you know, you're gonna get skewered for

Norm Murdock [: 00:26:56

that. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:57

Skewered for that, and they still offered the money. So, you know, I look. He built a team. He won the championship. I don't know how much did The signal or sign stealing contributed to that. I have no idea. And more than enough

Norm Murdock [: 00:27:08

a perfect time for him to leave. What I what so so I'm not I'm not Here advocating, a bunch of hate or a bunch of, penalties for him like I started out with. I I think what these guys at Ohio State did was so minimal and and and and so inconsequential to the outcome of any kind of a Game. It was their own property, and at worst, what what's on the record, I'm only speaking to that, Trestle some later emails indicated that he knew about them doing this with this drug dealer tattoo guy, as early as April of 2010, and and and he said he didn't know about it. So maybe he lied, and that would have been his crime if he did lie. Okay? But it's so over the top to penalize the entire team and take away their Big 10 championship. It it's so out of proportion.

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:05

What what's I think you lied about a tattoo. Is that the 180 degree shift from those rules

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:12

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:13

I think what's bothering you, you know, because there was like, it was a staunch like, it was a no excuse That's right. Complete Death penalty rule, if you get caught paying players in college Right. You get the death penalty. Right. You know, remember SMU back in the day and

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:26

And Urban Meyer, the next year, right, He had a bunch of scholarship.

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:30

Not Texas. Oklahoma.

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:31

So when he replaced Trestle, he had a bunch of, scholarship slots Taken away from him. Mhmm. Remember that? Right?

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:39

Yeah. They they were sanctioned going forward. And, you know, so that was just a no no at the time. And now it's like, you know, we're just gonna embrace it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:45

Yeah. You know, we

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:46

can't control it, so we're just gonna let it happen.

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:48

I think it's a real tragedy, and I, you know I I just You

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:51

know, I It's an outrage to me. Don't think I agree the more I give thought to this with paying the players to come to a certain school. I I I I I I just don't think I agree with that.

Norm Murdock [: 00:29:02

No. I I I I don't I I don't either. You know? But but since I don't agree with recreational marijuana legalization, But it's here now. Yeah. And if I had a buddy that got busted for wrecked marijuana, right, I would want his record expunged. Because if it's legal now Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:29:20

But that was happening before it was legal. You could get your record expunged for rec for just low level misdemeanor alarms.

Norm Murdock [: 00:29:25

Understand that, but I think it ought to be a mass expungement now Only for rec users.

Steve Palmer [: 00:29:29

Everybody should have to pay me to do their experiment.

Norm Murdock [: 00:29:33

Well, anyway, I've beat that to death. We should talk a little bit about our, about our, you know, very courageous governor DeWine, who vetoed, House Bill 68 and then has been, it's been overrode by

Steve Palmer [: 00:29:49

2 Overrode? Overridden? Over

Norm Murdock [: 00:29:51

Over something. He's been He has been smacked down by both parts of the bicameral general assembly controlled by Republicans. Both the house and the senate have have overridden his veto, and, so, now, I'm not gonna call it gender affirming treatment. It's it's it's hormones, drugs, mutilation, And counseling of little children. This is only for minors. That has now been banned, and it's not for, those rare cases where, you know, they're hermaphroditic Yeah. And they're born with, you know, defects So Physically, that need to be a surgical device.

Steve Palmer [: 00:30:37

Right. Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:30:37

It's it's for this wacky idea that you take your 8 year old to a psychologist Who's being paid if if it goes to a a a surgical center at Children's Hospital, and they take off his penis and his and his nuts, And and and he and and tell him he's a girl, and he's not a girl.

Steve Palmer [: 00:30:56

Yeah. No. It's it's it's lunacy.

Norm Murdock [: 00:30:58

And he's gotta live with that. This is He's a Child that this has been done

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:02

to do. This is Sodom and Gomorrah stuff. I mean, it's it's utter lunacy. Right. I mean, it's utter lunacy. But the political, You you know, say what I I've I've been an outward critic of DeWine. Say what you will, but he's politically shrewd. And so he he almost walks away with the best of all worlds.

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:19

You know? He vetoes this. It's overruled. Yeah. But he vetoed it so he can sort of hap make that Side happy. Right. And then he issues this executive order in the midst of his veto, right after his veto, that seemingly sort of bat walks back some of the veto.

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:30

Makes no sense.

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:31

And now the general assembly fixes it anyway, so it's just swept under the rug like it never happened. It's like DeWine sort of comes out smelling okay here.

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:38

He's he's perfectly set up to become the next, president of Harvard, which is what I said. I I really think he wants to replace

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:45

You think so? Really?

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:46

Yeah. Oh, wow. I'm kidding. Oh, But, I mean, he but but, I mean, like, stage

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:52

What are you talking about?

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:53

Wow. Wow. Well, because he gets the wokeness. Right? He gets the wokeness vote, But then he you know, like you said, it's all fixed.

Steve Palmer [: 00:32:00

It's political wheel ness.

Brett Johnson [: 00:32:02

He knew what he knew what he was doing. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:32:03

And then What else did he do just this week? Right? So governor Abbott's down there on the border, right, saying, okay. This 2 sentence Supreme Court, was it wasn't even an opinion. It's just All of it was

Steve Palmer [: 00:32:17

denial of an of an of an injunction. Right?

Norm Murdock [: 00:32:19

And he says, well, it doesn't say I can't put up more razor wire. It just it just says

Steve Palmer [: 00:32:24

It doesn't say he can't put up any more or keep what he's got there.

Norm Murdock [: 00:32:27

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:32:28

He just can't stop the feds from taking it down.

Norm Murdock [: 00:32:29

From taking it down. So he's he's putting more up, and he's basically saying, hey, federal government, you you you failed to live up Your article 1 to protect our state. Yep. So then under article 10, the states have the right if an Invasion actually uses the word invasion in the constitution, which I have right here.

Steve Palmer [: 00:32:50

Yep. North Carolina's pocket constitution.

Norm Murdock [: 00:32:52

I got my constitution. And because the constitution was written Very simply for farmers to read because that's what we were a country of back then. This is not a complicated document Even though legal guys will tell you, oh, it's such a complex. Oh, this is really difficult to

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:09

all the hedge It's a lasting.

Norm Murdock [: 00:33:11

Bullshit. You listen. You're allowed to have a gun. You're allowed to carry it. You're allowed to have free speech, blah blah blah. This is very, very Clear.

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:20

No law means no law.

Norm Murdock [: 00:33:21

It's a

Brett Johnson [: 00:33:22

it's a guidebook, for sure.

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:23

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Alright. Well, that's a that you've just opened up a can of worms because this is So what

Norm Murdock [: 00:33:28

did DeWine do? Just let me end that. So so DeWine, after 27 other governors, right, or whatever it is, have said, we support governor Abbott. DeWine's like, Yeah. I guess I need to prove my manhood too. So, yeah, I He he supports. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:43

Because he's a politician. Right? Yeah. He looks good. But, look, this is coming down. This this kind of these kind of conflicts between the state and the government have happened before. Think civil war.

Norm Murdock [: 00:33:53

Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's a few times.

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:56

Just pick up. There was a there was a case that came out of the Supreme Court back in pre civil war era where I think the North was trying to impose a tariff on, foreign goods, and then, the foreign people would would do the same coming back.

Norm Murdock [: 00:34:08

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:34:09

So then that that hurt the South more because they were exporting textile or exporting textiles. Right. But, anyway, and the Supreme Court figured that out, but there's been nothing sort of like this. It's like, I I I'm not aware anyway. I don't I'm not a historian here. But What we've got a conflict where the federal government, particularly the the executive branch, is is intentionally And I say intentionally with bold underlying highlights. No question. Intentionally Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:34:36

Not following Federal law.

Norm Murdock [: 00:34:37

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:34:38

Intentionally. Not doing it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:34:40

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:34:40

Not protecting the borders, not enforcing immigration, not following not only the US code, but also the basic constitutional duty it has to uphold loss. Gotcha. So we have that scenario going on. So then you have, Abbott down in Texas saying, well, if you're not gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. And I'm gonna put up razor wire, Wire, and I'm gonna I'm gonna put deploy my own national guard, and we're gonna do it ourselves. And the federal government says, no. You can't do that. We're gonna come in and take down your razor wire.

Steve Palmer [: 00:35:04

And, Abbott's now he's doubling down and sort of invoking this, 10th amendment, this idea that there's an invasion. And I think I I I'm pretty I don't know. I don't know. Again, Norma, I don't know the history. You may know it better than I. But I think the idea of that was if if if some state, a border state were invaded like Texas from the army of Mexico.

Norm Murdock [: 00:35:23

That's right. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:35:23

Or if you're up on the north side and Canada happens to grow a pair and they invade the United States or something. Right. I didn't say that out loud, did I? So they invade the United States or something with the with the Royal Mounted Forces.

Norm Murdock [: 00:35:35

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:35:35

They could act without a declaration of war because it was an emergency scenario. Right. So the question here becomes with Abbott's latest move is whether a legal immigration coming over the border amounts to an invasion. I think the answer is no. I I think, ultimately, The the history text and tradition of the constitution would say no. It doesn't excuse the first problem though, which is the executive branch of government not enforcing the laws of the United States of America.

Norm Murdock [: 00:36:00

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:36:00

And the US Supreme Court is going to have to deal with this. I think there was an opinion back in, I don't know when it was, but Scalia wrote a dissent, because I did some quick research on this. And, you know, Scalia Scalia would support Abbott's conduct here. But I think this is going to have to get sorted out, and it's gonna have to get sorted out quickly or better put Biden's little political maneuver here is gonna have to stop.

Norm Murdock [: 00:36:25

Well, it was a five four, no opinion decision. It wasn't just a 2 sentence order, And 4 conservative justices were in favor in in other words, they they would deny

Steve Palmer [: 00:36:40

The injunction.

Norm Murdock [: 00:36:41

The injunction.

Steve Palmer [: 00:36:41

Or no. No. They would uphold

Norm Murdock [: 00:36:42

They would hold they would tell

Steve Palmer [: 00:36:44

held the injunction.

Norm Murdock [: 00:36:45

They would tell the federal government, no. You can't cut this wire. The state of Texas has a right to put it up, and and you and you can't take it down. So that was, Thomas and Kavanaugh and, Alito, and I'm forgetting the other one. But it was the 4, you know,

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:03

conservatives. Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett voted the other way.

Norm Murdock [: 00:37:05

They went the other way. Right. And and I get it. I get it. It this situation is almost unprecedented because the founding fathers could never imagine a situation where for 3 years now, the federal government would defy its own laws. Mhmm. The executive branch would defy laws passed by Congress that says when an illegal comes in, you have to arrest them, and and then you have to return them, you know, back, Unless it is a verified, plea for, not clemency, for,

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:44

You asked me to

Norm Murdock [: 00:37:44

You're in you're in fear of immediate fear of your life Right. Due to political,

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:50

You're right. You're talking

Norm Murdock [: 00:37:51

about. Asylum.

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:51

So look. There it's a it's a fascinating set of circumstances, you know, the way this is getting framed because You have to go back to how our country was formed. Yeah. It was not always a federal government, and it was almost that the federal government didn't exist. In fact, the first version of the federal government was so weak that it basically didn't exist. So And

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:09

he did state militias.

Steve Palmer [: 00:38:10

So they had to get rid of the articles of confederacy and go back, and we have a constitutional convention.

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:14

We didn't have a Standing army for a while, we had state militias.

Steve Palmer [: 00:38:18

Militias. Right. That's right. We have this idea that our federal government is like its own big thing, and the states are sort of blah blah blah. Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:25

But it

Steve Palmer [: 00:38:25

wasn't that long. Even in our grandparents' time frame, we're going to a different state meant something. You know, we didn't always have this huge, omnipotent federal government. And, you know, there was a contract of sorts. We agree as a state to enter into this sort of bigger union. But here's the here's the give and take. And and the terms of the contract were basically written down in that document that you have right there.

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:48

Article 10, the long enumerated powers, the things that aren't in here Are

Steve Palmer [: 00:38:53

left to the police power of state.

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:54

To the states.

Brett Johnson [: 00:38:54

Yes. Yeah. Because I had to look up the the definition of invasion. Yep. So, I mean, of course, we think of active invading, especially incursion of an army or conquest or plunder. The second1, this is Merriam Webster, The incoming or spread of something usually hurtful.

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:11

So there's a world, I suppose, where you could fit You could? These, the illegal immigration into that. But I don't think the court

Norm Murdock [: 00:39:18

Well, it's unprecedented because the federal government hitherto always responded to these things.

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:23

Yeah. This is a political move. I mean, they're even screaming It's

Brett Johnson [: 00:39:26

interesting. They're even

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:27

screaming yay, Biden as they come across. You know? So they're he's clearly doing look. The the you can't say this is by accident. No. It's just You can no longer say this is by accident.

Norm Murdock [: 00:39:34

It's policy.

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:35

It's a policy. And then you have to wonder why. Like, what are the like, is it just because they're so stupid that they don't know it's happening? No. I can't I can't accept that.

Norm Murdock [: 00:39:43

Biden was campaigning against Trump, right, in in 2019, okay, in 2020 when he when he was running, he gave speeches where he said America welcomes illegals.

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:56

Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:39:57

Like, if you can get here, we're your landing pad. We welcome you with open arms.

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:02

You wonder. So look It

Norm Murdock [: 00:40:04

is his policy.

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:05

It's his policy. And I I wonder, is it just power and votes because he's they think eventually these people will vote for him or their their party? Or is there something more deeper behind it, like Marxism? You know, like getting rid or is America they just think America is so horrible that it needs to be punished and just destroyed by letting these other people come in, and this is our penance.

Brett Johnson [: 00:40:22

I just don't see it being a guarantee letting people in that they're gonna vote for you. I I I don't see that.

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:28

And I think, generally, the Hispanic vote, like, the panic vote, like the traditional Hispanic vote. You know, they're they're very family conservative oriented group of folks.

Brett Johnson [: 00:40:35

So it's not a guaranteed vote.

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:37

So then it's like, why do it? Why are they doing it? And, you know, there's an idea

Norm Murdock [: 00:40:41

after 911.

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:42

You have to eliminate property rights. You have to it's like you this is destroying the country. You know, if you scale this up, the country is gone. You can't have a country without a border. A border defines a country. Therefore, without the border, you don't have a country.

Norm Murdock [: 00:40:54

So I heard a great stat, Steve, you'll you and Brett. You guys will love this stat. So, I was listening to an expert. I gosh. He used to run the border patrol. At any rate, he said it's estimated with Godaways and with the ones that have been processed, It's right around 10,000,000 that have come in since Biden has, become president. And he said there are 33 states That have 10,000,000 or fewer

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:24

Or fewer.

Norm Murdock [: 00:41:25

Yeah. Citizens. Yeah. 33 states.

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:27

So we've led another state in.

Norm Murdock [: 00:41:28

We've led in another Hey.

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:30

Yeah. Dude.

Norm Murdock [: 00:41:30

I mean, it's It's

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:31

it's insanity.

Norm Murdock [: 00:41:32

It's insane.

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:33

And then these people, these these talking heads, you know, on on the on the leftist media are, like they're calling Abbott this evil guy anti it's like his state is getting ruined. You know? Property is getting ruined. There's tent cities on people's private land.

Norm Murdock [: 00:41:48

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:48

And they don't care because they wanna eliminate private ownership of land anyway because they're gonna have theirs. They just don't want you to have yours. I mean, you almost think that that's what's going on.

Norm Murdock [: 00:41:56

Well, Fentanyl. I mean,

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:58

Well, not to mention that crime. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:41:59

I mean, yeah, Rick Rick Harrison, the guy, the pawn pawn Our guy on TV just lost his son to Fentanyl and has and has said, you know, it no doubt it came across the border. And and his son just died of Fentanyl, not not the one that's on TV all

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:15

the time. Another last1.

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:16

So, I mean, we're seeing this Rise up into the upper and the middle class where their kids are dying of Fentanyl.

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:24

Well, it's not just it's a it's a more sinister problem than that because we don't have the resources to give away. And these people wanna give away more like, there has to be a limit, you know. Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:36

And and the terrorism aspect.

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:38

This is something this is something that you can scale up and down. Like, it so think of your own house. I debated somebody about this before. I was like, why don't you just open up your own house And just do the logic here. It's like you have a full refrigerator that feeds your family of 4, and you're gonna let in 1 other person. You might be able to absorb that Right. And pay for that. And but now 2 and then 3.

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:57

And when can't you do it? When do you run out of business?

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:58

Well, and now they're coming from all over. It it's not Mexicans. They're coming in from China. They're coming in from Africa. China's not shot.

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:06

These are evil people that that these are our arch enemies entering freely across our southern border.

Norm Murdock [: 00:43:12

13. Based they this statistic, the same guy gosh. Is his name Hogan? I can't I can't think of the guy, but, The the former head of border patrol, Mark Mark Miller? Anyway, he he said that, When Trump was president, in the 4 years, they arrested 3 people on the no fly list That came across the Rio Grande. Under under, Biden, his 3 years, which we we don't even have 4 years of data yet. It's it's it's over a 150 Yeah. That have been arrested on the no fly list. Yeah. Is it because they're It's just wide open.

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:50

It's wide open. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:43:51

And you could and I was spending this in another way in my head too. Okay? You know, we're not a country of Puritans here. We're not the the, you know, The best people in the world. So I think of the people coming across. And so if it's millions of people coming across, we're there are some evil people here in the United States who are gonna take advantage of these people too.

Steve Palmer [: 00:44:07

No question.

Brett Johnson [: 00:44:08

So we're building up a lot of bad stuff here.

Norm Murdock [: 00:44:10

And there are cartels back home.

Brett Johnson [: 00:44:12

Yeah. The carpetbagger feel to it. You know? They're gonna take advantage of the situation that they don't know How to work the system? So there are evil there are gonna be evil people here that that take advantage of them.

Steve Palmer [: 00:44:22

And I have heard this argument.

Brett Johnson [: 00:44:23

Them when they were down their own And

Steve Palmer [: 00:44:25

I have heard this argument, which is complete utter nonsense to me. It's like, well, we need these people to go because otherwise, we wouldn't nobody would clean our houses, and nobody would do this. It's like,

Norm Murdock [: 00:44:33

Come on.

Steve Palmer [: 00:44:33

How you use the word xenophobic. Like, how how arrogant is that? Right? Like, oh, these people don't oh, they just I need them here to go pick my crops clean my house. And I was like, go screw yourself, you. You're arrogant pricks.

Norm Murdock [: 00:44:45

How about that racial stereotype?

Steve Palmer [: 00:44:46

Right. Exactly. The arrogance of that is is so insane. And and not only that, it's like they're working outside the margin of taxes. So tax the rich, man. These people work for free. Tax the rich.

Brett Johnson [: 00:44:59

You know, and to your point about okay. So the xenophobia thing. So aren't we trying to get over that with black stereotype? Yes. So now we're going to put that on to Sure.

Steve Palmer [: 00:45:07

That's right. So they're gonna be your slaves essentially is what they're saying. That's what they're saying.

Norm Murdock [: 00:45:11

We're gonna

Steve Palmer [: 00:45:11

they're gonna be low low paid indentured servants. Right. And, I mean, irrespective of of how that screws up the economy, it's, like, it's so offensively arrogant when I hear that. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:45:22

Of course, it is.

Steve Palmer [: 00:45:23

Like, what do you mean we need these people to do our to do the crap work that that we won't do. It's like BS. Right. You know, I was here cleaning this building this past weekend. Right? You know? It's like, it's it's Such nonsense.

Norm Murdock [: 00:45:34

Really? And and, you know, there was just a movie about a a Hispanic NASA astronaut, that, that came out. I've seen that movie. Yeah. Fantastic movie. Right. And you never hear a Democrat say, hey. We need more Hispanics To come across the Rio Grande to become astronauts and physicists and, professors at Harvard and Yale. Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:45:57

No. They never say that. They go right to the racial stereotypes, which is the Democratic Party, the party of slavery.

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:03

Well and then, you know, you

Norm Murdock [: 00:46:05

That that's the they're they're the Ku Klux Klan party. The Democrats are the party of racial separation. They're still doing it, and that's why that Claudine Gay lady at Harvard lost her freaking job because she's defending racial segregation for entrance exams.

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:26

And, you know, you there people ask

Norm Murdock [: 00:46:28

What? If I'm if I'm Asian or white, I have points against me? Yes. You gotta be kidding me. Yeah. Well, you you're as bad as the clan. You are the clan.

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:37

Well, you there's you know, back to A country with no borders is not a country because the borders define a country. So you have to then ask, how do you differentiate between, like, the great immigration back in the turn of the century when we had lots of people coming in and, you know, we opened up the melting pot and America grew. Well, we needed people. Right? But they didn't come in illegally. They came in lawfully, and it wasn't the best for them, and they had a hard Oh,

Brett Johnson [: 00:47:00

they had a hard struggle.

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:01

They worked the ground. But you know what? They became citizens. They became part of the culture, and it became a melting pot of our culture. This is not that. These These are people coming in illegally not to become Americans, but to sort of live unlawfully for off our resources and do whatever. I don't even know what's going on. So it's not the same. And you you know, you don't have to give asylum to the entire world.

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:23

We can't do it because the house fills up, the fridge runs out, and, eventually, you're not a country anymore.

Brett Johnson [: 00:47:28

So We need to use our political power to talk to that country, Mexico, wherever, and get some things straightened out.

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:34

Yeah. No more. No more. Right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:47:36

What what you know, without without throwing money at it. I don't mean that at all, but it's like, okay. Well, let's what's going on down here? We gotta stop this.

Norm Murdock [: 00:47:42

We had The wait in Mexico policy under Trump, and Biden got rid of that day

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:46

1. Immediately.

Norm Murdock [: 00:47:47

So, I mean

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:49

In the way they twist the words, so now they're saying, well, we can't it's the it's Trump's problem. Right? Because Right. You know, there's so many people coming and that we need more resources to be able to let more people in. I mean, that's their argument. We don't have the resources to deal with this. Of closing down the border, they wanna open it up more and then put more people in charge of letting people in. I mean, it's just it's utter nonsense.

Norm Murdock [: 00:48:06

So I I would like to just give a concrete example of of of what we're doing with these illegals. So, you know, Abbott and DeSantis have been roundly criticized for their moving of a few people to, like, Martha's Vineyard or New York City or Chicago. They only account for about 12 percent of the relocation of these immigrants from the border across the United States. The rest of the 88% is the Federal government is doing it.

Steve Palmer [: 00:48:35

And and they were they went to the, quote, sanctuary cities.

Norm Murdock [: 00:48:38

And and and do you know what the deal is when they get on these airplanes? It it it's unbelievable. 1st of all first of all, there's no background check on them unlike American Citizens. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:48:52

We can't get on a plane. Right?

Norm Murdock [: 00:48:53

We we can't get on a plane without our ID. These people are allowed the illegals are allowed to board aircraft where other where other people, American citizens, are on the same plane having to demonstrate their actual ID. The illegals Can get on these planes. This is all federal policy.

Brett Johnson [: 00:49:12

So they're going through TSA?

Norm Murdock [: 00:49:13

They're going through TSA with no ID.

Brett Johnson [: 00:49:15

With a grant with a pass? Yes.

Steve Palmer [: 00:49:17

Yeah. No IDs. They won't be

Norm Murdock [: 00:49:18

IDs. They're flying with no IDs. Yep. American citizens have to produce an ID. Right? And I'm just like, my mind's blowing.

Steve Palmer [: 00:49:28

Anecdotally, that's insane.

Norm Murdock [: 00:49:29

So I would like Yeah. To well, like, can you imagine at the 911 commission Presenting to them that scenario saying, guys, look. You're investigating 911. Good idea or bad idea To let people on planes without any ID.

Steve Palmer [: 00:49:44

If but when. When the next terrorist

Norm Murdock [: 00:49:46

attack happens, it's gonna

Steve Palmer [: 00:49:47

be one of these people

Norm Murdock [: 00:49:48

No question.

Steve Palmer [: 00:49:49

That came into the country, and they're plotting against us as we speak.

Brett Johnson [: 00:49:52

And it's sadly that it has to take that type of wake up call for us to go, what are we doing?

Steve Palmer [: 00:49:57

I don't know how the world I don't know how everybody in the country is not absolutely Right. Petrified of this problem.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:03

They hit the Pentagon and knocked down the World Trade Center.

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:06

That nor I take like,

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:07

we They killed 3,000 people, and 4 jets went down. But and and the American people are letting these guys fly without an ID on commercial flights. Right now, I hear just all checked

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:20

I hear the quote elites. Several friends of mine are saying, well, you know, big deal immigration. Yeah. Right. Big deal immigration. Now we need the people.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:26

You're a hater, Steve. Yeah. It's like You must hate people with brown skin. That that's what it comes down.

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:31

Yeah. It just is, And you're

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:32

like, really? Is that what I am?

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:35

Well, that's so look. Name calling. Yeah. Immediately resort to name calling.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:39

Right. Right. Right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:50:40

And it's and it stops the conversation.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:42

Yeah. You're

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:42

a racist. You're a racist. You don't like brown people. Right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:45

But when we're all racist,

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:46

Where's your humanity? Don't you have any empathy? Blah blah blah blah blah blah. Look, I'm all for help. Maintain the country. Let people unlawfully when we need them. And you can say how arrogant that is. Yes. When we need them. So if we wanna expand our population or if we do need help, doing the work that needs to

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:01

be done

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:01

in the States our

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:02

armed forces.

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:03

Let them come in Yeah. Naturalize them as citizens, and then they become Americans.

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:08

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:08

And they get to earn a living. They get to pay taxes. They

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:10

get to bring them

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:11

to society.

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:11

We need to know every every damn thing about them. You bet. I mean, that's ridiculous.

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:15

It's not unfair, nor is it xenophobic or racist or anything else to to have those requirements. Because the

Brett Johnson [: 00:51:20

reverse is true on us. There's a trip. Know everything about us.

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:22

Well, when I Everything. I just mentioned true. Right? I I toured, the the former Soviet Union, Russia. Yep. Every 3 days As a tourist, I had to check-in with the police in Russia or their deputized, civilian agents, usually a hotel manager.

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:40

Yep.

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:40

And I literally got out my passport. Right? And it had to be stamped. Show

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:46

us your papers.

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:47

3 days or else I'm a Fugitive in Russia. Yeah. America like like, we have nothing like this. We are we are such a giving open country. We are a good country. Net net, we are a good country. We've done more

Steve Palmer [: 00:52:01

We are the best country

Norm Murdock [: 00:52:03

ever in.

Steve Palmer [: 00:52:04

Said it right here on comments and live.

Norm Murdock [: 00:52:05

Human history.

Steve Palmer [: 00:52:06

Probably in human history.

Norm Murdock [: 00:52:08

I mean, it's unbelievable. Yeah. It it you know? And what we do for other countries, we are currently guaranteeing the Shipping of even our adversaries through the Suez Canal. Yeah. Our US our taxpayers, US taxpayer, is paying to keep the Red Sea open for those shipping companies that wanna use the Suez Canal, including China, Russia, everybody we

Steve Palmer [: 00:52:32

People want to blame our country for the times it exercised its power instead of, applauding our country for the times it did not. Right? So we could take

Norm Murdock [: 00:52:42

out it did in the defense of

Steve Palmer [: 00:52:44

Or it did in the defense. Right? So, look, we have the power to be absolute world authoritarians right now. We could do it. That's right. We could do it. And, you know, it might it might be you know, we'd be in Armageddon if we tried to do it, but We could do it. You know, we we have that power. We have that strength.

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:00

We are that mighty of a of a fighting force of a nation.

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:04

We could be the Roman Empire modern, and we would never

Brett Johnson [: 00:53:07

done it. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:08

Yeah. Never done it. And don't think we couldn't have at the end of World War one or World War two. Yeah. Or the

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:13

end of the desert storm.

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:14

Or the end of Desert Desert. You're right. Absolutely right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:16

It's just, you know, just just say to Kuwait, gosh. You're the 50 you're the 51st state. We're we're we're just taking Kuwait.

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:23

Yep. It's a it's a colony. Yep.

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:25

Alright. We we got all we got all the

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:28

colonists didn't colonize.

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:29

Right. So so you can be like the Hawaiian Monarchs. We we will let the sheikhs continue to have your you can can Live in your palaces and and and derive all this money. Right? But just like we told the Hawaiian monarchs that, hey. Sorry. You're a territory now. We could've done that. We did.

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:48

You're a territory now. Guess what? We will defend you. Yeah. Right? Right. Right. There's a there's there's a quick there's a little bit of a give and take.

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:55

You you'll you'll be like Puerto Rico

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:57

Oh, okay.

Brett Johnson [: 00:53:57

Guam and Yeah. We'll do it.

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:58

Yeah. So

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:59

you you

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:59

get us anyway. Yeah. So this this nonsense is all coming to a head, and it's it's like You wonder you you wonder how this all gets defined. Is Biden really gonna ride this train all the way to hell because that's where it's leading? I mean, He's essentially giving away the country. He is an active president of the United States, not enforcing the laws of the United States, intentionally not enforcing laws of the United States. And now, the Supreme Court is gonna have to get involved. And for the 1st time, I think, in our history, really, really sort that out. I mean, Look, you can say the Civil War is a good example, and maybe that's maybe that's the last time we had to deal with it.

Steve Palmer [: 00:54:34

I'm not predicting a civil war, but, you know, you've got people calling for the federal government takeover of the Texas National Guard. And, you know, you've got some

Brett Johnson [: 00:54:43

Well and, hopefully, that it's not gonna happen, that This, what we just talked about, comes out in the presidential debates, but it's not going to. It's gonna be sound bites. It's gonna be

Steve Palmer [: 00:54:53

one debate.

Brett Johnson [: 00:54:54

That'll be one debate, and they're not gonna talk about The realism of what's going on here is just that you're letting too many in. You wanna close down because you don't like them.

Norm Murdock [: 00:55:01

There might be some VP debate, but I I agree with you. There won't be a

Brett Johnson [: 00:55:04

press release. Have this substantive discussion about what this action reaction

Steve Palmer [: 00:55:09

Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:55:09

This letting them in what is happening, it's gonna be just Fluff.

Norm Murdock [: 00:55:13

You know, guys, it it used to be, and I remember several situations when Reagan and the 2 Bushes were president, for example, where And un where a a very liberal law passed by Congress, you know, something to do with abortion, let's say, or something to do with EPA or whatever, but it was a federal law. And even though the administration disagreed with that law, It sent their attorney general to court to defend federal legislation against attack in court because it was the law of the land. Mhmm. And the president said the law of the land I I can't change the law of the land. It was passed by Congress. So I'm gonna send the attorney general, you know, down the solicitor general down to court, and they're gonna defend this Federal

Steve Palmer [: 00:56:05

law. It's the law of the land. The law

Norm Murdock [: 00:56:07

of the land. Mhmm. This is what you know, Obama kinda didn't do that. He He diverted from that long standing policy. And with Biden, it's just completely off the hook. Not only does he not uphold federal law, He actually just legislates. Well, he defies it off.

Steve Palmer [: 00:56:26

He just makes up stuff. It to its face.

Norm Murdock [: 00:56:29

And it's fair.

Steve Palmer [: 00:56:29

You're not allowed to forgive student loans. I'm gonna forgive student loans. Right. You can't do this. It's against the law. I'm gonna do it anyway.

Norm Murdock [: 00:56:35

I'm gonna do it anyway. Hey. Yay. Right. And by the time it reaches the court, it will have been in action for a couple of years. Right. And I get all that benefit for 2 years, Right? Until the Supreme Court smacks me down again.

Steve Palmer [: 00:56:48

Yeah. But I don't care. I'll just do it anyway. And remember remember, I'll never forget it. It was in a debate with one of the the I think it was all the Democrats when they were running in their primaries. It was Kamala Harris. I forget who she was debating. It might have been Might have been Biden.

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:04

I don't remember who was on the stage with her, but it was they're talking about gun control. And I think Biden or somebody got up and said, look. We you know, there is the second amendment. We can't do that. I don't wanna hear no. Yes. We can. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:16

We can. Let's just say I say we can do it. It's like, no, you freaking can't. There there's a constitution with amendments that say you can't, and there she is up there on that stage getting applauded for saying, I just wanna hear, yes, I can do this. Yes. I can take away this right. Yes. I can.

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:32

Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:57:33

Yeah. I mean, it's unbelievable. It it's it's so I again, I We should

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:37

pull that. That's probably on YouTube. So Well, this

Norm Murdock [: 00:57:39

I just think the founding fathers just could not imagine that scenario being played out right now down on the border. It just It's it defies any they couldn't even threaten it.

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:50

Have to hate the country. Yeah. You you or or come up with some other sinister reason that you think you should open up the southern border.

Norm Murdock [: 00:57:57

Yeah. Up you wanna turn a a red state blue or or whatever your agenda is. But it's It's outrageous.

Steve Palmer [: 00:58:04

But isn't impeachment the isn't impeachment Is

Norm Murdock [: 00:58:06

the solution.

Steve Palmer [: 00:58:07

Is the solution? I mean, we I guess, we should talk about that. There is a solution here. You know? There is. There is. Impeachment's the solution. There's not gonna be enough time to get it all done, but, impeachment is Mitch McConnell.

Norm Murdock [: 00:58:16

I mean, you know, that that it's just been in a nutshell. Right?

Steve Palmer [: 00:58:19

You've got You've got an open border, a president who's snubbing his nose at these things. I mean, that it's a crime, I guess, I would say. So, I mean, is that a high crime to intentionally violate or not enforce federal law? You know, it's unprecedented, really. Yeah. It's unprecedented.

Norm Murdock [: 00:58:32

Or to oppose an invasion if if you if this can be characterized as such. Yeah. I don't think so. It's already. Abbott has made that declaration. He has officially set I I called this an invasion

Steve Palmer [: 00:58:45

Very calculated, and I'm

Norm Murdock [: 00:58:46

waiting For you federals to to protect my state, and their 300,000 crossed over in December by the Federal Government's own admission, 300,000 people in 1 month crossed over the border to Texas.

Steve Palmer [: 00:59:02

It's crazy.

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:03

So it is an invasion. E either imputed or real. It's not from a particular, you know, state. Right? It's it's but it's an invasion of people, Right? From all ethnicities. Yeah. From around the world.

Steve Palmer [: 00:59:17

Yeah. Now

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:18

I'm sure there's Frenchmen and Irishmen.

Steve Palmer [: 00:59:20

Whether that is gonna be a 10th amendment invasion? Or I I I tend to think not. If I if I'm on the Supreme Court, I look. I don't know the history, and I don't know.

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:29

It doesn't say military invasion. Terry invasion.

Steve Palmer [: 00:59:30

It doesn't say military invasion. Right? But, you know, we we we can't, on the one hand, talk about the constitution not being this elastic thing that You can change with the times. None other hand supported being an invasion when maybe it's not.

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:41

Original ten.

Steve Palmer [: 00:59:42

You you have to look at it. And I don't think they're gonna say immigration is an invasion. I wouldn't if I'm on a court.

Brett Johnson [: 00:59:46

Or could be an economic invasion by a country allowing so many people to come into your country that it breaks down your economy. Social order. Yep.

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:55

Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:59:55

Social order, you could I mean, that's a stretch. That's a huge stretch.

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:58

When they're

Brett Johnson [: 00:59:59

kicking it that way.

Norm Murdock [: 01:00:00

When they're kicking kids out of school.

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:02

So there's an argument that you can make you that you just made. It's a great argument. This is an economic invasion, and reasons aren't necessarily hot wars. Right. I I don't think the court's gonna go there, nor do I think they They have to. Yeah. I think the better the better legal issue is the the question needs to be resolved. When you have a federal government, executive branch that intentionally defies federal law.

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:22

How do you handle it?

Norm Murdock [: 01:00:23

That's right.

Brett Johnson [: 01:00:24

And that would stop the whole thing. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 01:00:26

Right. How do you handle that?

Brett Johnson [: 01:00:26

Then it's a domino effect.

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:27

Yeah. We've never had to deal with not not like that.

Norm Murdock [: 01:00:30

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:30

Not like that. I don't think we've ever had to deal with that.

Norm Murdock [: 01:00:32

Well, an existential threat to the country.

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:35

Well, what if what if, for instance, you know, reversing this, there is in back in the Jim Crow south when we had the anti slavery amendment. And when all that when all that came through, we send the FBI down. Right. And we send the federal forces down in the National Guard into these private to to in to enforce I or or

Norm Murdock [: 01:00:53

Voting rights acts and all all kinds of federal legislation.

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:57

So you had the states defying the feds, the feds acted. Now this is sort of the reverse of that.

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:01

Mhmm. You know? 14th 15th amendment. So

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:03

imagine imagine if the if whoever were elected president at that time did not enforce that law.

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:10

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:10

How would that be viewed? Right. How would that be viewed?

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:13

So Right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:14

Pearl. What's going on.

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:15

Pearl Harbor was not an invasion. 911 was not an invasion. And those were attacks on the US. And, you know, and and and so the federal

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:24

I think those are invasions.

Brett Johnson [: 01:01:26

Well, By definition, it is

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:28

by 4 years. Hawaii or or that witness stated that Hawaii.

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:32

It was an attack. It wasn't an like like, Japan Didn't land troops and try to invade.

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:37

Well

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:37

They came in

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:38

at the time. The borders with hostile That's right. Yeah. And hot intentions. Right. So, Look, I I think the 10th Amendment was designed to say, alright. This these guys are coming over our border with warlike intentions. You as a state can act to defend yourself because there's not enough time for the federal government to do it.

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:56

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:56

I think that's what the 10th Amendment's all about. Question.

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:58

Right. They couldn't imagine the federal government would just I'd at least sit by.

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:02

So what would happen Yeah. If this were a hot war? You know, if if the army of Mexico was literally coming over the border, Would anybody criticize Abbott for deploying forces and dealing with it? No. On the other hand

Norm Murdock [: 01:02:14

On the other hand, you could argue that the cartel is just like the Barbary pirates.

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:19

You can make that argument.

Norm Murdock [: 01:02:20

Non state actor, right, that is militarily armed Right. And is Causing this invasion.

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:27

It's it's a fascinating Yeah. Philosophical dive into things like federalism, into states' rights, into constitutional power. And then, you know, there's another

Norm Murdock [: 01:02:36

So so so to Brett's xenophobia, observation, it's even deeper than that. People of the same ethnicity, The cartel people. It may be of the same ethnicity as, you you know, and them acting as coyotes. Mhmm. Where they charge $10,000, let's say, for a teenage girl to come over across the border. And then she has to pay that $10 off or the cartel will hunt her down in in in Ohio or New York or Pennsylvania. We'll hunt her down and kill her or maim her or do something to her unless she acts in human trafficking Yeah. As some sort of, Woah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:03:15

Right. So she she's a she's a Trojan horse at this point. Right?

Norm Murdock [: 01:03:18

That's right. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:03:19

And then so it also raises another interesting legal issue, and there's you know, this comes into play in my practice every now and then. Something called the supremacy clause, where if you have a federal law that's in conflict conflict with a state law, the federal law theoretically wins. And then you get to these other there's something else called we talked about this a few Sure. Months ago, something called preemption of the field Yeah. Where there there were federal law become so ubiquitous throughout that that states not only, lose because they're inferior to the supremacy clause, but they can't even act. You know, any state law is completely out of the picture because, the federal law has preempted the field. It's so pervasively regulated by federal law. The states can't do anything.

Brett Johnson [: 01:03:59

Like drugs? It would be a good example, maybe.

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:01

Drugs, more like, the highways.

Brett Johnson [: 01:04:04

Oh, okay.

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:04

Like, stuff like that is is They that's been deemed to Okay. Preempt the field. The drugs, though, would would so Ohio couldn't It happens every day with marijuana, which is an interesting little example. Yeah. But Ohio theoretically can't permit things that the federal government outlaws.

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:22

Yeah. In

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:23

theory. Right? In theory. Okay. But here so you wonder. It's like you have the that's the preemption doctrine and supremacy clause, federal power over states rights. All this is sort of coming to a head in this in this one little issue, and it's all Biden's political b s. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:43

Like, it's not accidental.

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:45

Super, super dangerous. This is so

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:48

Our our this is look. We are we are writing the history of the decline of the United States of America. We are writing it as we speak.

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:55

Yeah. I mean

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:56

We're watching it happen. So so we This is this is, 476 AD.

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:00

DeSantis is gone. Nikki Haley's probably gonna drop out at some point. Don't say that. Don't say that.

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:07

She's got to.

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:08

Well, you you kind of you kind of the Hailey girl.

Brett Johnson [: 01:05:10

So what happened I I I do. I kinda like, So far

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:14

She's she's

Brett Johnson [: 01:05:14

like competition as well. She's she's like competition.

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:17

She's not horrible. What happens to us? The Santas guy.

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:22

What happens, guys I know. If Trump dies or if Trump goes to prison or Trump

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:28

Well, let's scroll down just for a second. Think it's I think it's interesting because Brett's

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:32

dropped out.

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:33

Brett's a man in the middle. I think it's good. I think we should talk about The negatives on Trump, what don't you like about Trump?

Brett Johnson [: 01:05:41

I mean like him as a vessel delivering what he I don't I just don't like him as a

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:46

As a as a human.

Brett Johnson [: 01:05:46

As a The way he does things. His politics, you know, what he's trying to do. Okay.

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:52

There's there's there's

Brett Johnson [: 01:05:53

some validity to it. I just don't like the vessel that it's delivered it. He's I just don't like it. I don't like him as a a pretty standard criticism of the government. He's not a statesman. He's just not. I don't like him representing Our country.

Norm Murdock [: 01:06:07

I'm kinda good with, you know, somebody not being a professional politician.

Brett Johnson [: 01:06:11

And and, you know, he can be tough when he needs to be tough. Granted. That's I I don't know.

Steve Palmer [: 01:06:14

But but he's tough when he doesn't need to be tough too. Right. You know?

Norm Murdock [: 01:06:17

He he just stupid shit that he does. So you're talking about

Brett Johnson [: 01:06:20

drives me nuts.

Norm Murdock [: 01:06:21

Is his personality.

Brett Johnson [: 01:06:22

Yeah. Okay.

Norm Murdock [: 01:06:23

See, I think that weighing in on,

Steve Palmer [: 01:06:25

I think, for personality matters.

Brett Johnson [: 01:06:26

Yeah. No. It does. Right. Him weighing on DeWine's, Over, you know, the the SB thing. Yeah. Oh, give it. Why? Why? Who gives a crap what you think about What DeWine did?

Norm Murdock [: 01:06:40

A lot was said at this table too. I know. Are you criticize no. No. No. No. Criticize me. It's okay.

Norm Murdock [: 01:06:44

No. No. No.

Brett Johnson [: 01:06:45

No. No. I'm saying at his level. At his level.

Norm Murdock [: 01:06:48

Well, DeWine rejected legislation that that would have banned men from playing in women's sports. I I I And it banned and it banned and it banned mutilation of of children.

Brett Johnson [: 01:07:01

I understand that.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:01

But it's So so Trump He has a position on this.

Brett Johnson [: 01:07:05

I know. I don't know. I it just they just when he when he spoke out again, it just bothered me. He's like, I don't care.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:10

So I'll go to his personality. His speech On New Hampshire night was ridiculous. He should have been talking about how awful Biden is because he's he's the candidate. He's the guy who's gonna He he should have not said anything about Nikki Haley. Exactly. And just, like, now the attention turns to Biden because DeSantis is out. Right. Nikki got 70% of Nikki's vote was Democrats.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:37

Yeah. Only 30% of the votes you gotcha. Right?

Brett Johnson [: 01:07:40

Republican. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:41

And and

Brett Johnson [: 01:07:41

New Hampshire's New Hampshire's a weird bird.

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:43

You know, Trump's got an easy path. Shut up.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:47

Yes. Criticize about those things.

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:49

Criticize Biden

Brett Johnson [: 01:07:49

That's right. For

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:50

not even Biden. Just criticize what's going on because it's easy. We do it every day here.

Brett Johnson [: 01:07:54

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:55

That's all he needs to do.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:56

They're wiffle balls.

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:56

But but, know, Brett, here's what here's what I have, here here's the paradox with Trump that that I have to that that sort of conflicts me sometimes. If any other personality would not have survived, because the attacks that the left would would wage against him, calling him a racist, calling him this, calling him that these you know, he was a Democrat essentially when he ran.

Norm Murdock [: 01:08:20

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:08:21

And and the left just just absolutely skewered him because he beat the darling, Hillary. Yeah. And, you know, so it like, a lot of this is manufactured.

Norm Murdock [: 01:08:32

You know, in the primary.

Steve Palmer [: 01:08:34

Right. So so he he's got the personality where if you throw a punch at him, he's gonna bring out a chain. And if you throw a chain at him, he's gonna bring out a knife and a chain and a gun. You know, it's like And a hammer grenade. He he will stand his ground and and fight back. Yeah. And it doesn't he won't get intimidated by Biden or these other idiots calling him a racist or calling him this or calling him that and make or accusing of things. The problem is that same personality that that lets him be able to deal with that, it never stops.

Steve Palmer [: 01:09:02

It never stops. And he takes on fights that he doesn't have to take on.

Norm Murdock [: 01:09:05

Well, and he's not Right. He and he is not classy about it.

Steve Palmer [: 01:09:08

No. He's not.

Norm Murdock [: 01:09:09

He is not elegant in his speech. His He he's a Streetfighter, he's a brawler.

Steve Palmer [: 01:09:13

I almost wonder if he's a little dyslexic. You know, it's like, you know, he's because it's like you're right. He's a streetfighter. He gets his point across. Right. He gets he gets things, I I think by and large, he gets things right, but it's you know, he's gotta plow through, like

Norm Murdock [: 01:09:28

Yeah. He he's even vulgar sometime.

Brett Johnson [: 01:09:30

Oh my god. Yeah. Well, so I I gotta recollect, and you guys have a better memory than I do. So when he jumped into the race, there were, what, how many up up on stage?

Norm Murdock [: 01:09:38

Like, 17 guys.

Brett Johnson [: 01:09:40

Right. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:09:40

And girls.

Brett Johnson [: 01:09:41

All of a sudden, when he pops in

Norm Murdock [: 01:09:42

Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 01:09:43

And go, what? Like, what?

Steve Palmer [: 01:09:45

But he wins. He wins because you know what

Brett Johnson [: 01:09:47

he did? So on the that's why I don't like the not no the no competition to this. Yeah. That's like, okay. But maybe maybe Hailey has something that Trump people on the edge kinda going, yeah, she's a better vessel for this.

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:00

The problem is she tried to she tried to appeal to woke because, by playing the gender card and all that

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:06

The problem is the Trump voters white flagging that Trump so see, Trump is just a big middle finger. Right? He's just a big phallus

Brett Johnson [: 01:10:14

He's a walking

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:15

right in the face to the people that that his supporters hate. The elitist who think they know better. The elitist who wanna say, you can't do it, but I can.

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:24

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:24

The ones who wanna take everything from you under the cause of environmentalism or the cause of racism or the cause of this. Right.

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:31

I mean,

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:32

now they're essentially saying if you support Trump, you're a racist. You know? That I mean, they've You're

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:36

a white supremacist.

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:37

You're a white supremacist. Right. So anybody who has supported Trump or voted for, the other side has called you a white supremacist.

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:42

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:42

And it's like, look. You know, is is Nikki Haley the person to stand up and take that on? I don't think so. I think in a different time after we turn the corner

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:50

She's like she's perfect. She's a nice lady. She's like Mitt Romney, who's a nice guy. Yep. They'll crush her.

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:57

I think DeSantis could've taken that on this on at some point or on some level.

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:01

He's tough as nails.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:02

He's tough enough to do it, but he doesn't have the rhetoric that Trump's got that people like. You know?

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:06

Well, he's classy about it. Right? I mean, you know, DeSantis, when he talks, Doesn't talk about hating anybody. He doesn't talk about what kind of dress they wore, you know, or their high heels. He doesn't get into this, Sliding them on a personal level. I mean, he doesn't play that stuff because he knows politically. That's really ignorant. Like, it turns off suburban women Right. Big time.

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:32

When when Trump called Rosie O'Donnell, I think it was, a fat pig, Like, I just put my hands over my face. Like

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:39

Why do it?

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:40

Why? Dude, like, maybe she is, but hold that thought Your head

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:44

has no filter at times. It just there's no filter

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:47

too. Like, what is wrong? Why would you say that?

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:49

I think he would still be president

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:51

No question.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:52

If he didn't have Twitter. I agree. Oh, I agree. You know? Yeah. January 6 wouldn't have happened.

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:58

Right.

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:58

Yeah. It's his bullhorn.

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:00

And look. Yeah. Look. I I'm not gonna I don't wanna go down the rabbit hole

Norm Murdock [: 01:12:04

of a

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:04

of a of an election that was stolen, but it was rigged to some extent. You know? The the voting rules changed because of, quote, COVID. There was a lot of reasons why Trump didn't win that election that had little that had less to do about him and more to do about how the election was conducted.

Norm Murdock [: 01:12:17

Well, they're still finding votes. Like in Virginia. They found 20,000 votes. Now most of them would have been for Biden. Yeah. But it is disturbing that The off the people in Virginia running the election in 2020 have just now this past week said, We just found 20,000 votes. Imagine that.

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:36

Right. And

Norm Murdock [: 01:12:36

and people are, like, really?

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:38

So there some a lot of the rules are in the swing states. Pennsylvania changed. Wisconsin changed, you know, the like, the swing states changed their rules for the election. So I wonder, you know

Norm Murdock [: 01:12:49

Yes. We'll never know.

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:50

I wonder what happens this time. And, look. I my prediction still holds. I do not believe that Joe Biden will be the Democratic candidate for the presidency. I just I I can't accept Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:00

You think you think somebody's gonna come out of nowhere, basic or or maybe

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:05

The guy from Minnesota. What's that for? He always

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:06

Well, I mean, Trump could have a heart attack, and then DeSantis will be the guy.

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:10

Well, how does that work? I meant to ask you. So how does this work?

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:12

At at the convention.

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:13

So he would have to show up at the convention, and it would be uploaded.

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:16

Conventions could just

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:17

The delegates

Brett Johnson [: 01:13:17

So that's why they call it suspended versus pulling out.

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:20

That's right.

Brett Johnson [: 01:13:21

It's just suspended.

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:22

But I'm

Brett Johnson [: 01:13:22

not on the ratio yet. I'm just suspending it. I

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:24

Suspending my campaign.

Brett Johnson [: 01:13:25

That makes sense of why that Term is used now.

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:28

Well, the Republican

Brett Johnson [: 01:13:29

get that now.

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:29

The Republicans at the convention could could dominate Wink Martin Martindale. I mean, they hear you roar.

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:35

Tic tac toe?

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:36

Yeah. I mean, they they could I mean, you know, it it

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:40

They kinda wonder.

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:41

They could pick a Oprah. You don't have to be a declared candidate. They can ask them, Will you accept the nomination? They vote, and then that person accepts it or rejects it.

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:51

You know? So so We'll see. I mean, there's there's lots of there's lots of history yet to told you You

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:55

know what almost happened with a president from Ohio, William Henry Harrison. He died 30 days after he was sworn in as president. Okay. He coulda died 30 days before the election. Right? And so you say, well, then what? Well, then people vote for somebody else.

Steve Palmer [: 01:14:12

Or if Trump's in prison or held in jail. I can easily see this happening.

Norm Murdock [: 01:14:17

Yeah. He'll still be on the ballot. There's stuff. There's nothing that says a convicted felon can't be president. That's not in the constitution.

Steve Palmer [: 01:14:24

I mean, what a what an incredible historical debacle.

Norm Murdock [: 01:14:28

And then he so a felon gets elected president, And then the and then when he's sworn in, he says, I pardon myself.

Steve Palmer [: 01:14:35

I pardon myself. Alright. Well, look. We we gotta we gotta we gotta tie this up. I don't even know what we covered today, but it's been interesting. So

Norm Murdock [: 01:14:43

Hey. One thing on elections because you brought up Spectre at our last show. Yes. Spectre. The World Economic Forum.

Steve Palmer [: 01:14:49

I expect you to die.

Norm Murdock [: 01:14:50

So Klaus Schwab actually said that elections are no longer needed in the future. We can use AI. AI will project who the election winner will be so we don't need to have elections.

Steve Palmer [: 01:15:07

Yeah. And these these these He actually said that. Wow. Evil MFers believe this nonsense.

Norm Murdock [: 01:15:12

So I just want to throw that in

Steve Palmer [: 01:15:14

because expect you to die.

Norm Murdock [: 01:15:16

I expect you not to vote. Yeah. My computer will pick the next President.

Steve Palmer [: 01:15:19

Right. The one I own and programmed for. Alright. Alright. So Common Sense Ohio brought to you by Harper Plus Accounting. You can check us out at commonsense ohioshow.com. You can leave comments. We've got a Facebook presence now.

Steve Palmer [: 01:15:33

We've got a YouTube presence now. We got reels coming out at an alarming rate. Lots of great stuff happening here. If you you wanna get you wanna be part of the crew, you wanna you wanna topic covered, you wanna hear what Norm's got to say That's something that's easy. Just go to commonsense ohio show .com. Send us an email, and we will cover it. If you've got if you wanna go bicker with the rest of, the people, the millions of listeners on Facebook, check it out. There's there's a little bit of back and forth going on there.

Norm Murdock [: 01:15:58

It's amazing how many people hate us. That was some and I love all of them, But it it it it basically, our Facebook page is nothing but a series of criticisms, slights, hatred directed towards this program.

Steve Palmer [: 01:16:13

Not me.

Norm Murdock [: 01:16:14

Bring it. I took care. I took care less. Yeah. It's water down my Back when

Steve Palmer [: 01:16:18

they thought to that end. What we try to do here is just Not

Norm Murdock [: 01:16:22

here to be loved.

Steve Palmer [: 01:16:23

Just have a conversation.

Norm Murdock [: 01:16:24

I love you, but you don't I

Steve Palmer [: 01:16:25

try to speak common sense, and sometimes I'm wrong, and sometimes I'm not wrong, and sometimes I'm right, and sometimes I'm not right. I I don't really care. And and a lot of times, what what we do here is we think out loud. I I I literally think through things at the microphone. Right. So I'm not perfect. Far from it. There's only been 1 perfect and an 8 I.

Norm Murdock [: 01:16:42

Yeah. They crucified him. So he did smart off to his mother once. Jesus did. And I always bring that up with Catholic priests. Like, well, if he's perfect, You know, he he disobeyed the 4th commandment. He said he said, woman, you know he he actually called his mother woman. What you know, woman, keep silent.

Norm Murdock [: 01:17:01

Right? And I'm like, really? That's respecting your mother?

Steve Palmer [: 01:17:04

I'm not going down that rabbit hole. So, anyway, coming at you common sense, Ohio. Coming at you right from the middle each and every week at least until now.