Welcome to CROWD Church! This week Matt Edmundson and co-hosts Sharon Edmundson and Ellie Light discuss the topic of work from a Christian perspective. They explore the modern workspace and discuss how work was ordained by god and its vital importance to Christians.

Key Takeaways:

1. Work is Ordained by God: The panel emphasises that work was established by God before the fall of humanity, meaning it's part of God's original design for human life. It's not just about paid employment but encompasses all forms of productive labour. Work is viewed as a partnership with God, where humans contribute to God's creation and kingdom.
2. Work Heartily as Unto the Lord: Christians are encouraged to approach their work with a positive attitude, doing it "heartily" as if working for God, not just for human employers. This perspective helps reframe frustrating or mundane tasks, turning them into opportunities to honour God, even in difficult job situations.
3. Balance Work with Rest and Trust God as Provider: Observing the Sabbath and ensuring a healthy work-life balance is vital. The panel highlights the importance of trusting God as the ultimate provider, especially during times of unemployment or work challenges. Resting is a way of honouring God and trusting Him to provide, allowing space for reflection, rejuvenation, and deeper connection with God.

If you loved this weeks discussion make sure to check out everything we do here at CROWD church, from our weekly Sunday Livestreams to our Podcast show Whats the Story.

CROWD Church | Doing Work

Crowd Church, and there are a few ways that you can do just that. Firstly, you can engage with crowd from any device during our live stream. And if you're up for it, why not invite a few friends over and experience the service together? You see, church is all about connecting with God and connecting with others.

More information about all of these All these things that I've mentioned can be found on our website www. crowd. church or you can reach us on social media at crowdchurch.

If you're new to crowd or new to the Christian faith and would like to know what your next steps to take are, well, why not head over to our website crowd. church forward slash next. For more details.

Sharon Edmundson: Hi everyone.

Matt Edmundson: And Ellie.

Sharon Edmundson: Hello. Hello.

Ellie Light: Okay, it's going to be like that. Good, good, good.

Put that on the floor. Hello.

Matt Edmundson: Um, sorry, that was, that just tickled me. I don't know, I can't tell you why. Um, so a very warm welcome to you. Uh, this is Crowd Online Church. We are. Carrying on our panel discussions. Uh, last week we kicked off a little, a little change to the normal program. We are doing this sort of panel discussions and today we're talking about work and what the Bible has to say about work, which is, um, Well, it's exciting.

It's fun. I'm looking forward to it. You're looking forward to it?

Ellie Light: Absolutely.

I mean it.

So we'll try and respond to them if we can. Um, but yeah, it's, it's Crowd, it's Crowd Church. And if this is your first time with us, a very warm welcome to you watching us online. If you want to know more about church, uh, well, more about Crowd Church rather than just church, head over to, has it come up on the screen?

Yes, it has. www. crowd. church. Or you can find us on social media at Crowd Church. We would love to connect with you. We would love to hear from you, uh, sending any prayer requests as well. Getting a lot of prayer requests coming in. So do send those in as well. Have I remembered everything?

Sharon Edmundson: I have no idea.

Let's go with yes. You have. Why not?

Uh, and neither of you saw

Sharon Edmundson: it. Nope. No we didn't. We're catching up with it at some point.

Matt Edmundson: Wow. So it was really good. Um, and so last week we did the panel conversation. With Dave Connolly, there was myself, Dave Connolly and Anna Kettle, who I still want to call Anna Beynon, which is, is not helpful. Uh, so we did the, the panel conversation last week about family.

Oh, Miriam's in the comments. Hi, Miriam. How you doing? Lovely. Nice to see you. Well,

Sharon Edmundson: Virtually. I see your name on a screen.

Sharon Edmundson: Uh, I'm mostly doing okay. Um, my sinuses are playing up. So breathing is slightly more of a challenge than usual. But, um, apart from that, good. What about you two?

Matt Edmundson: What about you?

Ellie Light: Yeah, I'm

Matt Edmundson: alright.

Ellie Light: I'm enjoying the changing weather actually.

Are you? Yeah, which is unusual. As

Matt Edmundson: in you like the cooler weather?

Ellie Light: Yeah, I'm quite enjoying that it's, you know, a different season.

Matt Edmundson: I'm not quite sure how I think about that. That is slightly controversial. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I'm alright, yeah. Yeah. Is it because you don't like the hot weather? Is it, or is it?

Ellie Light: No, I think because I've just been working all summer, which is on topic, for what we're going to talk about today. Um, I feel like I'm not missing out on anything now that it's raining.

Matt Edmundson: So you don't actually mind working. Yeah.

Ellie Light: Yeah, because it's raining outside, so it's okay that I'm stuck inside working.

Ellie Light: it.

Matt Edmundson: We do, we do. But, you know, it was a nice day yesterday.

Ellie Light: It was, and the day before was Yeah, yeah, Friday was good.

Matt Edmundson: So we've had our two days. Summer's gone now. So you're in your coats and jeans.

Sharon Edmundson: I'm still trying to decide whether it's warm enough to take my jacket off. I've been doing the same. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure what to do.

Matt Edmundson: Well, there you go. What's the weather like where you are? It's actually peeing it down with rain, isn't it? It's raining quite heavily. So we're just praying that there's no leaks, uh, which has, you know, we've had in the past, uh, in this place. Um, so yeah, Miriam says she's doing great, which is always nice to hear.

It's always lovely to hear from you, Miriam. So, work, where should we start?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I've always found it ironic that in the Bible, Um, you know, this is a church, we, we, we like to talk about the Bible, don't we Dave?

Uh, but in the Bible, the book of Job is spelt the same way as job is. Uh, and if you don't know, Job is a story in the Old Testament. It doesn't go well for Job for the majority of the book. It's, it's, it's pretty bad. It's pretty bleak for him to be fair. Uh, and Job is spelt J O B like a job. And so quite often, I think people.

They read Jobe and go, that's my job right there.

Ellie Light: I've just got to suffer. That's it.

Matt Edmundson: I've just got to suffer like Jobe. Um, and so, yes, so, um, you're right. I think some people can think of it like, uh, and some people like, yay.

Sharon Edmundson: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Where are you in that whole spectrum?

Sharon Edmundson: Um, I think I'm on the, uh, the yay end.

Yeah. And I, I'm not just talking about paid work. 'cause I think we, we can work in lots of different ways. Yeah. Um. But it's great that I have something that I actually enjoy doing as well. And yeah, yeah, I can be quite creative in as well. What do you do? So I teach, I teach English. It's like, you just carry on.

Matt Edmundson: I was going to be my next question. Just in case, go for it. No,

Uh, all different nationalities, different languages, different cultures. So yeah, I just love being in that environment and I love learning languages myself. So yeah, it's cool.

Ellie Light: Yeah, that is

Sharon Edmundson: cool. Uh, do you want to tell people what you do because I think your job is really interesting.

Ellie Light: Yes. So I, um, I'm a freelance, uh, theater designer, so I design set and costumes.

Matt Edmundson: You design set and costumes or certain costumes? Set. Set and

Ellie Light: costumes. So in, well, in the TV world, you either do one or the other, usually like set or costume. But in theatre, you do both. And get paid about half of it.

Welcome to the world of theatre, right? Yeah,

Sharon Edmundson: yes. And Matt, because not everyone's going to know what you do either.

We co own the company. Um, and we,

Sharon Edmundson: one of us does more work in it than the other though.

Matt Edmundson: Well, I'm trying to catch up.

So yeah, I work in the world of eCommerce. Um, and, uh, now we also work in the world of podcasting and we also work in the world of acquisitions, which sounds way posher than it's just, it's cool. So yeah, so in a couple of weeks, you know, um, I have to go do a work trip from the acquisitions thing, which is cool.

Sharon Edmundson: I get lost because Matt's a bit of an entrepreneur, so we'll start one thing and then when that's running smoothly, I'll get bored. So start something else. So it's, it's constantly changing. So yeah, yeah, it does change track is tricky.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. It does change quite a bit. I think we started the business before Josh was born because it was a side hustle because I was working my regular job and then I set the business up as a side hustle. So I'd work in the evenings and the weekends, uh, on the business and that's how it all, yeah, it all got started.

So that's 23, well actually, when did we get married? 98. I think it was about the same, I think it was about the same time because that's when I started doing the websites. Because I remember doing our wedding website. So, yeah, since 97, 98, almost sat 30 years, 25, 30 years, I don't know, it's a while. 97 is

Ellie Light: 27 years, because I'm 27, I was born in 97.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Glad Elle is here for the mass.

Ellie Light: You're welcome.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Evening, Matt. Uh, Matt's, uh, in the comments as well. And actually, it's just, it's probably worth saying, uh, uh, We all have very different work backgrounds, um, so you're self employed, I run my own company, we employ people, we have staff, you do voluntary work, um, in the voluntary sector, so I think we're all quite different, it's also worth saying that people watching this, um, you're going to pick up a few things that I think are quite common, um, well you're going to pick up things which I think are common across all three of us, all three of us work, not all of us are paid, All of us seem to enjoy what we do.

Yeah,

Sharon Edmundson: wherever, wherever you are at right now, hopefully.

Matt Edmundson: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, it's, it's worth acknowledging that. And actually, um, if you're not working, I don't think that makes you a second class citizen in any way. Absolutely. Um, I, I just, I think the Bible has some stuff to say about work. It's worth, it's interesting, isn't it?

Because there was a period where you weren't working.

Sharon Edmundson: Um, yeah, well, technically

Matt Edmundson: in a traditional job.

Sharon Edmundson: Yes. Yes, because for quite a long time I stayed home with our kids, which I know is not really the done thing now. Yeah, and even back then actually because I before I had we had our kids. I was working as an occupational therapist in the hospital.

I think, you know, everyone before God is responsible for what they do. But yeah, so I, I did that for many years and really enjoyed that as well. Yeah. On the whole, there were definitely moments.

Matt Edmundson: And it's probably worth pointing out in that, in that phase that you were part time making more money. Than I was with my full time, yeah, before we had the kids, yeah.

So actually, I, it's not a case of, um, we had a successful business and therefore we could afford for you to do that. And that was a decision that we prayed through, but it meant giving up the biggest part of our income because you were working part time, doing part time voluntary work. You've done voluntary work the whole time,

Sharon Edmundson: haven't you?

Just so many different things alongside looking after kids and yeah. Too many to go into, I think.

Uh, Genesis 128 said, God bless them. He's talking about Adam and Eve. So this is pre fall, right? This is before, uh, What Christians call sin. This is when life is good in the garden, everything is perfect and rosy.

Sharon Edmundson: Literally in the garden. Literally in the garden. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And so Genesis 128, And God blessed them, talking about Adam and Eve, and said to them, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it.

Sorry, if you're outside of the UK. I'm really good at explaining Bible words. I'm just not very good at explaining British words. And before I went very wrong, there was work. What do you think about that?

Sharon Edmundson: I find this really encouraging, actually, because the The first talk of work is actually before this where it talks about God creating and it talks about God's creation as work and God looked at what he'd made and saw that it was good.

It's very, very different to the biblical view of it. Something that God does, and I love the fact that, um, The work that we're told God does it's very creative. And then when we've got Jesus who as Christians, we believe is God come in the flesh. He comes later on in the Bible. Yeah, his work is as a carpenter, which is also very physical and creative in a sense.

Yeah. And I think they sense that all different types of work are a good thing, they're God given. Yeah. I quite like

Matt Edmundson: that. Yeah. Very good. Any thoughts?

Ellie Light: Yeah, I think it's similarly encouraging, isn't it? As you were saying that it's kind of before, before everything went wrong, that this was, this was always part of.

How we're supposed to function. We're supposed to function in, in relationship with the, the world around us and like caring for it. And, um, that, that is just, that's part of how we're made. Yeah, it's a nice thing. Although things might go a bit skew with later on, , you know, you know, too much emphasis on, on work at times.

Sharon Edmundson: good thing. And these original jobs were not actually paid. It's like, I don't think Haslam the garden doing this work and getting money for it, but there were other they had like

a HR?

Sharon Edmundson: They

had a HR, there was an angel, an HR angel.

Sharon Edmundson: Yeah. But again, so it's, although now we do what part of work is earning money to live and that kind of thing, but that there's more to work than just that. Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: yeah. And I think that's a really important point. I think for me, when one of the things that I, when I started studying this out in scripture years ago, when I first started working, I'd not long been a Christian.

Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Which is an odd thing to think about heaven, isn't it? It's like, because what happens is I'm I'm of a certain age now, Ellie,

Sharon Edmundson: as we've just discovered, I'm

Matt Edmundson: of a certain age where naturally I'll be thinking, right, in 15, 20 years, I'm going to think about retirement. And we work our whole lives to retire, right? That's the whole, if you think about what happens in the West, you start your job, you're paying to you pensioning, you retire when you're 65 whatever the retirement age is these days.

Does that make sense? That

Matt Edmundson: actually, Yeah.

It's going to be like retirement but on steroids, it's going to be so much better and I don't think it is.

Sharon Edmundson: Although I think there's the flip side of that as well where some people are kind of like heaven's just going to be really boring because we're just going to be sat in fluffy clouds singing heavenly songs to God, playing on a harp.

Yeah, and I think the picture of heaven in the Bible is so different to all of that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I couldn't agree.

Ellie Light: I think that also then reflects like a, um, a misunderstanding of what work is then if you're seeing it as this, you know, um, I've got to get through the 65, 67, whatever it is, and then I won't work again, but that's so not true, because so many people when they retire, they go and volunteer or look after their grandkids or, and those are all things that are working, you know, they do more stuff in the community because yeah.

Yeah. A

little

Sharon Edmundson: bit. I think as well, if we go back to the stuff in Genesis, that the whole work thing is about a partnership with God because it talks about people being made in God's image and the whole thing of being an image bearer. It's like you are in partnership with the one whose image you bear.

So like in the. Ancient times, you'd have the kings and they would have their, uh, like image bearers, the people that carry out their task. And it's that whole thing of a partnership with God, bringing his kingdom and his ways. into the work that we do. And again, that's something I quite like.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah. No, very good.

Sharon Edmundson: was

Matt Edmundson: it.

Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, you have many talents, but

Ellie Light: not one

Sharon Edmundson: of them.

Ellie Light: Is

Matt Edmundson: it true that I can't sing?

Sharon Edmundson: That's not one of your main talents.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, no, I think I rock the, I rock the radio waves, man. Well, we said, oh yeah, welcome to Crowd Church. Uh, we're talking about work. We've got a little panel conversation going on, so if you have any questions, thoughts on what we're talking about, then do jot them in, jot them, drop them in the comments and we will.

And things change where work is concerned. And it's probably worth just pointing that out, right?

Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, we were talking a little bit about this before we went on air because, um, I think it can be easy to go, yeah, God, God has created us to work and yay, that's fabulous, but actually the reality of that can be quite difficult or quite different in that the Bible also talks about that the world now is broken and people are broken and that brings with it lots of difficulties.

You've just got to get people out and through and yeah, so although work is great or can be great, there is also that element of frustration and difficulty and hard. Yeah, just hardness about it.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to throw anything in here?

Ellie Light: Um, I don't think I've got got anything particularly to say off the back of that.

Matt Edmundson: Fair enough. Yeah. Um so yeah, so what happens is, sin comes in. Yeah. Work becomes hard, right? That's what, uh, uh, your, what the, the word Bible use, uh, the original in my head is this word toil, that work becomes toil after the fall. So we still have to work. Well, work is still part of it, have to, we still get to work is probably a better way to think about it.

Until I came along.

Ellie Light: She's smiling. Yeah. Yes, Matt. Yes, that's right. Yeah, yeah,

Matt Edmundson: yeah. So, uh, anyway, so Solomon said, there is nothing better. That's an interesting opening statement. There is nothing better for a person. than that he should eat and drink and find enjoyment in his toil. Um, this also I saw is from the hand of God for apart from him who can eat or who can have enjoyment.

So how do you think we can, how do you, Ellie, balance that?

Ellie Light: Well, for first of all, I really love Ecclesiastes, and I really love the kind of the simplifying of all of this. And I think what's interesting here is that you saying there's, there's nothing better than that. That's not a good word. Everyone has it like this.

Everyone has it. They enjoy their toil and do this and that. And I think it's something to work towards, um, and, uh, keep as a goal in mind when you're, when you're working and you work out what, um, does bring enjoyment and what doesn't and what, um, I guess what parts of it bring you closer to the, what was it?

That's a, it's a lovely thing to, to work towards, even if it's not always consistently like

Sharon Edmundson: that.

Yeah.

Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, I like the idea of just enjoying the simple things and enjoying everyday life because I think sometimes, um, like if you read books of people's lives, people, you know, or I think there's so much on social media now of where it seems like everyone's doing these amazing things and it can, most of life isn't full of these amazing highs.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it is. It's um it's interesting, isn't it? And II think you're right. I think have we over complicated life? The pursuit of um stuff.

Yeah. Has that clouded out the enjoyment of the the basics of life and I think It's a great question and I, I don't know if, if it's an actually easy question to answer in many ways. I think there are seasons that we go through. I think there are a lot of grey areas that we find ourselves, but the simplicity of this, like you say, enjoy your food, enjoy it.

I'm in dumb steam what God's told me to do. Um, I think it's important to understand that. Um, and conversely, I don't think enjoying food means enjoying it, you know, because the Bible has a lot to say about gluttony. Um, two things maybe we don't talk about a lot in church these days. Um, but gluttony and drunkenness are not.

are not good things, but there's also the excess, I suppose, where work's concerned, isn't there? Yeah. So you can have work is, work is from God, drink is from God, and food is from God. But I can take all of these things to excess. I can take food to excess, gluttony, I can take drink to excess, drunkenness, and I can take work to excess.

So how do you, thinking that through, how do you, um, Deal with that, Ellie, in terms of work life balance. Let's talk about the work life balance, because you've not got any at the moment, so let's just go there.

Um, so being freelance, I think is particularly difficult to establish a work life balance. Um, and I think, uh, being kind to myself as well in that and saying, you kind of have to, you have to learn it somehow. You have to learn what that balance is somehow. You're not going to kind of walk straight into.

Um, but it's been so hard. Um, but the thing that has really helped that is inviting God into it. And I think that makes the difference, doesn't it? When you're. Um, with, with all of this, it's working out what the relation, the god relational impact is on your work and how, um, you know, being, um, as know, going to people in your church for advice on how to get a better work life balance and praying through it and inviting God into kind of every day.

Eventually it is making a difference. It's slow. It's a slow learning. It has been very slow learning this, this year. Um, but yeah, it's not the, it's not the easiest.

Matt Edmundson: No, and I, and I, and that's the whole point, isn't it? These things aren't always, it's not, it's not as black and white. Yeah. Um, and I think sometimes.

Ellie Light: how many theatres you should design actually in a year, it says that in Exodus. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So it doesn't actually, it's not prescriptive, but it has principles which says, you know, and I think those principles are, if I read them, Sabbath is good.

Rest is good. Yeah. Um, work is good, using work as a substitute for family and being with people, maybe not so good. Um, you know, there are these sort of principles that we can learn in scripture, but the Bible, I think, talks about working hard. You know, we're gonna, we're gonna get to in a second, but the Bible talks about working as unto the Lord.

Um.

A modeling hard work is a biblical principle. But there's a real fine line,

uh,

Matt Edmundson: and I don't think I've always cracked that. Maybe you can talk to that because you said you see it from the other side, don't you?

Sharon Edmundson: Oh, um, sorry, can you just clarify what you mean by that? As in,

Matt Edmundson: as in, there are times I don't think where I've had a good work life balance.

Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, there's definitely been times where I've had to kind of go, uh, you're gonna,

you know,

Sharon Edmundson: have a bit of time off. And yeah, I think. With you as well, I think because you do love what you do, sometimes I think you find it hard to differentiate between what is work and what is fun and pleasure. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: yeah, I just find enjoyment. I'm just doing what Solomon's told me to do, but yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it?

And you're right. And I think that my, my experience here, um, is that there tends to be seasons. Is it? And you, I think, and I've said this to you, haven't I? That I think sometimes you, you can see them come up, you go, right, this is gonna be a season of busyness. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. . And actually for the next week, few weeks, month, how long it's gonna be, life is gonna be hectic and life is gonna be busy.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, you've got to cover bases a little bit, but, um, but these things are seasons. Like with you, I think. First year, you are gonna graft, right? You are gonna work hard and you're gonna take every opportunity that comes your way. And why would you not do that? Right? And it's, but it's a Caesar. If you're, if you're working the same amount of hours, fast forward 10 years, then I'd be like, uh, I think we need to have a conversation, Ellie.

Do you know what I mean?

Sure, let's fast forward. But I would just say that that's one of the things, so I've started trying to honour the Sabbath a little bit this year, which is, feels a bit mad to say when it has been my busiest year, um, but it's been really, really amazing looking at the Sabbath. How powerful stopping has been.

And I think, um, just the way that it completely interrupts stress is incredible and just forces you to slow down. And that's good on like so many levels. It's good on your kind of nervous system regulation level of like just physically stopping, slowing down. Make sure you less stress and then you can approach things in a much better way.

Sharon Edmundson: Yeah. A few years ago, we read a book that. That was a big component of wasn't it? I can't remember the book now and we lose

Matt Edmundson: the ruthless elimination of her. I

Sharon Edmundson: think there was a different one before that wasn't

Matt Edmundson: but

Sharon Edmundson: that was a good book. Um, yeah, and we decided that we were like, oh, hang on. We're not actually doing this Sabbath thing.

So we decided that we would take Saturday as a day off for our family and not do any work. And you know what, I totally love it because it is that, um, that sense of, okay, I don't have to achieve anything today. I don't have to do anything. I'm just actually going to enjoy what God's give me and just see where the day takes me, whether that's with a friend or just not seeing anybody, which is quite often what I like.

I'm a bit of an introvert. I do love being with people, but I definitely need to be on my own to recharge. I'm Dan Orange. I'm Sharon Edmundson. And we had, um, I

Matt Edmundson: don't see her from Friday night to Sunday night,

But I think one of the things that struck me from the book was it was talking about tithing in terms of money and for those who are not familiar with that term, um, as Christians, we, uh, the Bible kind of encourages us to give a tenth of our income. Yeah. away before you do anything else with it. And it's kind of a way of saying God, I trust you with my finances.

And this book talked about doing that as the Sabbath being the first day of the week, just saying, God, I'm giving you this day. So I'm trusting you with the rest of the week. I'm trusting you with my work, and that you'll provide everything that I need within those other six days. And I quite like that way of thinking about it as well.

Yeah,

This is one of the things that scripture talks. Go out of your way to build people up, to encourage one another while it's still cool today is what it says in Hebrews. And I think before, just as a complete aside, if we took that principle of saying something good and encouraging very, before we did anything else, just give of our, give of our tongue if you like.

So how do you? What I guess my questions here is, what do you understand by that? And how do you work heartily? And how do you work for the Lord and not for men, especially when it's men or women, I suppose, that employ you? Who wants to go first?

Ellie Light: I quite like this and I found this quite helpful when I've been Um, struggling with some of my projects and, um, if I'm working with someone who's frustrating me, for example, it's really nice being like, I'm drawing these Christmas trees for the Lord

instead of for other people,

Matt Edmundson: instead of for bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep. Yeah.

Sharon Edmundson: I don't think so. Yeah. I totally agree. I think it really helps in those situations where work is quite difficult or the people that we're with are quite difficult or you're not getting the pay that you think you deserve or the promotion you think you deserve or even if you're struggling to find a job and are just, you know, just doing things around the house for your family.

I think it just helps just shift your perspective. Yeah. To, it's helpful. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: going back then to something that you just said there, um, if you're, let's say you're, you've got the, can I, can I say, can I become slightly controversial and say trad wife role, which is a phrase that I learned the other day, the trad wife, do you know what this is?

Sharon Edmundson: Or full time dad now.

Matt Edmundson: Say again. Or

Sharon Edmundson: full time dad now.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, there are people, full time parents is probably a better phrase to put, isn't it? So you can be, Uh, they, what do they call them? Househusbands? Is that still the phrase that we use? It's probably not allowed now. I think that's probably out. Really, sorry if I've just offended somebody.

Yeah, let's move on. Um, but the, the sort of the full time parent role, how does that tie in with this scripture? And how did you tie that in with this scripture? Because you did the full time mum thing.

Sharon Edmundson: I think for I mean for us it was a definite choice and we felt like that was the right thing before God for us.

Yeah. Which I think over, and that has been viewed differently at different times in our culture, hasn't it? Yeah, it has. It, it changes all the time. Um, but I think it's knowing, knowing for yourself before God that this is the right thing for you to be doing at that time. Um, just seeing value in all different types of work.

Yeah.

So this is a phrase that we've heard a lot in the press recently. There's a, since COVID, I think there's been this massive swathe of people who are quite quitting. You go to work, you do the absolute bare minimum to get by. You've checked out emotionally. You've checked out mentally. We're even now talking, I think even France might have just, have they just passed a law which says it's now illegal for an employer to contact their staff.

outside of office hours. I think

Sharon Edmundson: that's a different issue to quiet quitting though, isn't it?

If you're watching, you're a legend. Um, uh, after, after graduating, working heartedly is, I'm working as unto the Lord. You can't quite quit Jesus and think that's going to be okay. Do you know what I mean? You can't emotionally check out. And that's not to say I think, I think. If you're in a job where you're abused by your boss or whatever, then again, there's so many caveats to all of this, but as a general principle, I think working heartedly is giving an awful lot.

Um, but the people that work with me are amazing people and they all work heartily. Does that make sense? And I, I wake up every day grateful for that. Um, and so just, have you guys got anything you want to say on this?

Ellie Light: Yeah, I think it just made me think back to the first scripture that we, uh, no it wasn't the first one, the Ecclesiastes one where it's find enjoyment in your food, drink and work.

If you're doing the kind of the quiet quitting thing, if you're, um, just kind of, um, signing out emotionally, mentally, like, um, from putting, putting effort in, you're not fine. It's because you're not finding enjoyment in your work and kind of, I guess what's tricky is, is finding what the motivation is.

You know, it doesn't mention anything about what you get out of it other than it's the enjoyment in the action itself. And that's not, um, that's not happening in that quiet quitting culture, I suppose. Um, but like I said, I think the motivations for the quiet gritting, I think it's much more complex. Um, so

Matt Edmundson: it is, and I think, I think you have to wait.

If that's you, I think you have, and you're a Christian, I think you've got to look at that. Um, I don't think, uh, I, I don't know if you guys have ever heard the story, the acres of diamonds, which is a, it's an interesting story about a guy, a farmer who had a farm and he, he was farming the land, you know, working all the hours, not really enjoying his work.

I may not be paying total justice to the story, um, but in essence, this is what I remember from it. The guy that bought his farm, who just wanted to be a farmer, was walking through the farm and in the middle of the farm was a stream. He was crossing the stream one day and something glint and caught his eye and he found what was the start of one of the largest diamond mines in the world.

Right. And so the, the, the, the, you know, the parable is quite straightforward, isn't it? It's like the very thing which you're seeking, that you want to give up everything and go and find which you think is over there might be right here where you are. And I think Quite often we quit work or we stop work because we don't feel like we're enjoying it.

So I'm gonna go and teach it. And of course, things start going a bit Pete Tong, um, a bit wrong again, don't they? And I think it's It's an interesting one, isn't it? There's a book written, who wrote it? Was it Cal Newport, I think? Becomes so good that they can't ignore you, which, which said actually, if you take a job, and you become really, really good at that job, and intentionally grow in it, work heartily as unto the Lord, you will find enjoyment in it.

Yeah.

I'm not, you know, just if what I'm saying is if work's bad, it doesn't mean you're not in the will of God. And if works great, it doesn't mean that you are in the will of God. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. Have I given myself enough caveats there?

Ellie Light: So tricky, isn't it? With this kind of topic? Yeah. But yeah.

Yeah. For that. Is it just that I need an attitude adjustment or is there something else going on that also needs looking at and not just sweeping under the carpet? Um, yeah. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And I think just to say here as well, coming back to this point, if you are. Not currently in work and you are looking for work.

Um, if you've been long time, long term unemployed, I appreciate that. I mean, I've never been long term unemployed, but I have gone through seasons of unemployment. I know that's not great. And I think it's in those times where you can say, God, what would you have me do? Um, So volunteering, doing something, getting involved in something I think is better than just sitting and waiting for the phone to ring.

So in the Bible, it talks about, um. Bezalel, I think I pronounced his name right. Um, so Bezalel is the craftsman whom, craftsman whom God anointed. I love this phrase craftsman because I think I'm a bit of a craftsman. Uh, uh, with special skills and wisdom for a significant task. So it says in Exodus, it says, uh, the Lord said to Moses.

Uh, and to work in every craft. So, uh, Exodus 31, 1 through 5. So talking about, um, I'm just going to call him Baz,

Sharon Edmundson: much

Matt Edmundson: easier, Baz, talking about Baz. So here there's a really clear reference in the Bible that this guy is a craftsman, which means he has worked hard at his craft. You don't, it's not like you just, Oh, I'm a craftsman, right?

You have to work really hard, um, which he did. So hand in hand, he is working on, but at the same time. God talks about how the Spirit of the Lord is upon him to do this task and it goes on later in the book of Exodus to talk about how him and another guy were sanctioned to, you know, get involved with the temple and all kinds of cool stuff, but it's, it's like, I love this because God has got involved.

What about you guys?

Ellie Light: Yeah, massively, massively. I think it's so, I think, especially doing a creative job, um, And working in theater and essentially my whole job is making things look nice. Um, it is so encouraging to remember that that is something that, um, God has given me, and that it's a useful thing and an intentional thing that he's given that to me.

Um, because sometimes I just feel like, oh, my job is useless and that it's not helpful and it doesn't do anything to advance the kingdom or doesn't, you know, make an impact in people's lives because I'm just. Um, but it's so lovely reading this being like, Oh no, this is, this is part of it. This is part of how we're made to be.

So

Matt Edmundson: here you are, you've gone to university, you've done the graft,

Matt Edmundson: you are working your craft. But at the same time, God's anointed you to do the very thing that you're doing.

And

Matt Edmundson: that's amazing.

Ellie Light: Yeah, it is. It really is.

Matt Edmundson: It's really cool, isn't it? Yeah. Sorry.

Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, sort of vaguely related to this is, I think from the Bible, it's like all different types of work have got dignity, whereas within our cultures, we tend to like rank each other, don't we?

I do. I do like that. And the fact that you can be anointed to do these very practical things that don't seem particularly spiritual, but actually we live in this physical world that was created for us and God anoints all the things that we want to do. Different people for different types of jobs. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. No, super. And to say God anoints means God empowers, right? God gives us gifts and abilities. And I think it's interesting how God called Baz a craftsman and I would venture to say actually, I don't know if I'd preach a whole sermon on this. I don't know if I'd form a theology out of this other than I think God is interested in creating craftsmen.

I, I

Matt Edmundson: appreciate he was the son of God. He could have gone to a tree and said, tree, turn yourself into a table and chairs.

Kind of get the feeling that he didn't do that, that he took out a saw and a plane and would have figured it out. Um, and I think. God is interested in craftsmanship and working with you so that you become really good at what you do. Now, Jesus, that was carpentry. For me, that will be eCommerce. I always want to learn and grow and develop in what we're doing, because I'm kind of like, I dunno if I'd use this phrase.

I think is quite quite a godly one.

Sharon Edmundson: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So yeah, any thoughts on this?

Sharon Edmundson: No, I like that and as well, you've if you're talking about calling as well. It's like Jesus is the Bible talks about how God's called different people for different things. You've got David called to be King and then it's about other leaders where God has put them in place.

Leading a whole nation, if that's what God's called you to do. Yeah. And just doing that to the best of our ability as to God. Yeah. And giving that as an offering to him. Yeah. Again, I just find that quite helpful.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Super

Matt Edmundson: powerful. Become a craftsman or a craftswoman or a craftsperson or just crafty.

No, don't become crafty. I think that translates into something different. I'm old enough to take my jacket off. Oh, yeah, we're almost finished now. Taking your jacket off. I did want to leave with this one story about working as unto the Lord. I remember when I was working in an employed role. I've not been employed much in my life, but when I was employed.

Um, and so I was, I was talking to God and I just felt God say to me, in that phrase, in that phase, Matt, do you see Your employer, I won't name them, but you see your employer as your provider. If you can give me chapter and verse, I'm all for that. But I'm your provider, right? God is our provider. He's our ultimate source.

I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is it was a hard thing and it was a check for me to go. Actually, things aren't easy. My head is in a not a great place, but Jesus, you are my provider, right? You provide all things. The year that I did that. And I remember it so clearly, do you remember, we were given financial gifts that were more than my salary that year.

And there are reasons for that, I'm not going to get into it, but what I am saying is, sometimes God likes to show off, um, that's maybe the wrong phraseology, but you get what I mean in terms of, And it's not happened any year since. I just want to point that out. But if it does, great. Um, but that, that was when I was like, actually, I need to see Jesus as my provider.

She always comes to me and says, you just need to do that prayer thing, which is, you know, it's great testimony, isn't it? Um, but it's like when things have got tricky, I just need to remind myself, Jesus is the one that provides. Um, and I think he does that through our labor. He does that through our work.

But if there's no work, he'll get it to me by the birds if he has to, right? So. Um, we can have confidence in him to provide for us irrespective of what does or does not happen in the labor market, um, would be where I'm trying to get to with this. Yeah.

Ellie Light: Yeah, that's good.

Matt Edmundson: Right. I am aware of time. Uh, any final comments from you, Miss Eileen?

That's the, that's probably the biggest thing for me. Yep,

cool. I

Sharon Edmundson: think for me, I think we might have vaguely touched about it, but that work, oh, there's a verse in your notes somewhere that talks about how work helps to provide for ourselves, but also so that we've got enough to give. So I think, again, in our.

Um, benefiting society as a whole, benefiting our neighbors, benefiting those around us. So yeah, there's that whole other element which we could probably talk later about, but I don't have time for. Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: maybe another week. I mean, I love these debates, these discussions because you just scratch the surface, don't you?

And you get excited by a few things and you just remind yourself of the key things. Works from God. He is my provider. He provides enjoyment in my work. There's this whole idea of becoming a craftsman. I just need to work heartily as unto the Lord. Everything else beyond that, yes, there's subtleties and nuances that we need to think about.

We are talking about the changes coming up to Crowd Church. So, uh, I think it says on the schedule that we're talking about doing church. Um, so we're going to talk a little bit about what it means to go to church. What does all that look like? How does that think work and feel for us? But a lot of the time is going to be looking at what we're going to be doing from October in Crowd, why we're doing it.

And so explaining that in a little bit more detail. So do come join us if you can. We're super excited about what's coming up. Well, I am. Are you?

Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, get in there.

Yes,

yes, I

Sharon Edmundson: am. Very

excited. That's

Matt Edmundson: awesome. So yeah, so do come join us for that. So subscribe. Uh, or like, or follow, or whatever it is you need to do, whatever platform you're engaging with us on. Um, if you'd like to reach out to us, do reach out to us via the website, www. crowd. church, or you can reach out to us on social media at Crowd Church.

Why not come join one of the live streams? Uh, you'll find us on YouTube, Facebook? I want to say we live stream on Facebook and I think we live stream on Instagram, although we didn't tonight because I forgot. So sorry about that. Um, but yes, so do come join us. Be great to see you, but, uh, that's it from me.

That's it from you.

Sharon Edmundson: Goodbye.

Matt Edmundson: And that's it from you.

Sharon Edmundson: Thanks so much. See you later.

Matt Edmundson: We didn't even rehearse that. I mean, that was proper professional. Thank you for joining us. Have a fantastic week, wherever you are in the world. We'll see you next time. Bye for now. Bye. Thank you so much for joining us here on Crowd Church.

It helps us reach more people with the message. That Jesus really does help us live a more meaningful and purposeful life. So if you haven't done so already, be sure to check out our website www. crowd. church where you can learn more about us as a church, more about the Christian faith, and also how to connect into our church community.

It has been awesome. Awesome to connect with you and you are awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear and hopefully we'll see you next time. That's it from us. God bless you. Bye for now.