In this special episode of the Kids Media Club Podcast, Jo and Andy chat to Jon Mason about the Secret Story Draw, an initiative he created to get more diverse talent into the animation and illustration industries. They are also joining by two previous winners Will and Katie who share their own experiences.

Secret Story Draw

https://www.instagram.com/thesecretstorydraw

https://www.thesecretstorydraw.org

0;00;11;26 - 00;00;16;20

Speaker 1

Welcome to a special edition of the Kids Media Club podcast. I'm Andy Williams.

00;00;16;20 - 00;00;38;09

Speaker 2

And I'm Joe Red. And in this edition, we're going to be talking about the Secret Story Draw, which was the brainchild of Jon Mason, who joins us today. And it's an initiative designed to get more diverse voices and talent into the animation industry. So we're also delighted to be joined by two previous winners of the secret story Draw Will and Katie.

00;00;38;15 - 00;00;46;07

Speaker 2

Welcome. So, Jon, tell us a little bit about the secret story, Drew, and how it came about.

00;00;48;01 - 00;01;21;00

Speaker 3

Thanks, Joe. Thanks for inviting us on. So we're trying to get on to this thing for a few for a few months. So thanks very much. So the secret soldier came about. Well, it's really a campaign full of optimism and opportunity. And I think we've cast a mind back to the so dark days of the pandemic when we were all at home and George Floyd was murdered in the US and everybody took to Instagram to put black squares up on their on their social media platform as a, as a social show, solid solidarity, I guess.

00;01;21;13 - 00;01;43;05

Speaker 3

And, you know, I did that as well. And so laughing with a little bit of an empty feeling really about doing that, it was like the least thing I could do. It was like, you know, done that and get back on with my life. And I started to reflect on that sort of the experience I have in my industry and the lack of diversity in our industry, in the children's media industry.

00;01;43;05 - 00;02;01;12

Speaker 3

And I started doing a bit of digging. I was just I was just interested really. I was just really sort of setting out to sort of just inquire a little bit, really. So I pulled down a couple of surveys from the animation UK and you know, and to my horror, you know, the statistics or better what I thought, you know.

00;02;01;12 - 00;02;45;10

Speaker 3

So I think the diversity representation was about 40% across the entire industry. And then when you go, it's publishing. I think black writers represented about 4% and advance illustration for children's publishing was down at something like 1%. So I thought, what can I do about it? And I thought, maybe I can start up a campaign. And having spoken to a couple of people in the industry about what sort of campaign we could run, we thought about having a competition where we encouraged, you know, illustrated animators from underrepresented groups to submit artwork that could somehow qualify them for a internship inside the industry that I work in.

00;02;45;22 - 00;03;06;26

Speaker 3

And so that was kind of the the, I guess the brain so that the brain far of all of it really, it was to sort of try and do that. But then I sort of stopped myself really quickly and looked in the mirror. And I'm still a male and I'm pale. And I started to think that maybe, maybe I'm setting myself up here.

00;03;06;26 - 00;03;30;19

Speaker 3

Maybe this is not this is not a discussion. This is not discourse that I should be really involved in. And maybe I'm setting myself up to get my shot down. So I spoke to a lot of people in the industry, people like Darren Nartey, you know, who is a black guy as risen quite high in the industry. And and I asked him, really, so what, you know, what should I do?

00;03;30;24 - 00;03;51;09

Speaker 3

Have I even got any business being involved in something like this? And, you know, he was quite sort of indefatigable about it and he was like, Yeah, you absolutely should be doing this job. You know, these kind of initiatives need allies and you want a really good position to, you know, open doors, have those conversations, and you should do it, go for it.

00;03;51;20 - 00;04;16;14

Speaker 3

So so we did and we kind of we went for it and yeah, and it's been a it's been an education for me, which is I guess one of the really important takeaways for me. And, and I think at Children's Media Conference I cried for the first time since we started the campaign because I got to meet Katy and Sally for the first time.

00;04;16;17 - 00;04;38;23

Speaker 3

I'd never met in the flesh and they never met one another either. And they had this big hug and they said, Thank you to me for like what happened to them. And the whole kind of world of it's all landed on me a little bit. And it was all a bit overwhelming, to be honest, because I hadn't really realized what an impact something like this would have.

00;04;38;23 - 00;04;58;18

Speaker 3

You know, I was just sitting in my little room during lockdown, doing what I was doing, trying to get this thing off the ground. And even to the point where people got the internships, I was a little bit dislocated and removed from that, that it really didn't really get the impact of it at all until I saw it sort of quite viscerally.

00;04;59;01 - 00;05;03;14

Speaker 3

Yeah. And maybe blood a lot.

00;05;04;08 - 00;05;16;03

Speaker 2

It's amazing. You mentioned that you've learned a lot. What are you able to say in terms of what have you learned from having gone through this once and now about to do it again?

00;05;16;15 - 00;05;38;25

Speaker 3

Right. So this is slightly a bleak point, but bear with me. So when my wife well, the girlfriend now wife fell pregnant, it wasn't until she was pregnant that I started to notice lots of pregnant people walking around the streets of Brighton. It was like all of a sudden I become aware that some of that was happening to me, was, was happening to lots of other people out there.

00;05;39;06 - 00;05;59;21

Speaker 3

And I saw the veil was lifted and all of a sudden I became aware. And it's not until you start educating yourself around the lack of diversity within society, just generally that and then you start to that. It's the same thing. This veil gets lifted. All of a sudden you can see inequality and a lack of diversity everywhere.

00;05;59;21 - 00;06;24;13

Speaker 3

And that for me it was a really big I saw ignorance, you know, it was it's not it's not ignorance. It's not willful ignorance. It's just not it just wasn't in my just wasn't in my purview. It wasn't in my you know, it wasn't until you start to look and you start to inquire and then you and then you realize what you know, what what the experience is for people who don't have the opportunities.

00;06;24;14 - 00;06;45;16

Speaker 3

I do like and simple stuff like watching university challenge like last night turn on to university challenge. And the first thing that popped into my head when I watched it was there's no people. There's no people. So black people, brown people I can see on that panel at all. It was all white people answering questions, you know, and it's just and it's almost like it's almost instant now.

00;06;45;25 - 00;07;03;13

Speaker 3

We saw all of that just so that's a big education for me and I think an education for anybody who's been working in, you know, in any kind of diversity initiative is that, you know, it's yeah, it just pulls a roll of your eyes a little bit and you can see it for what it is amazing.

00;07;03;19 - 00;07;26;09

Speaker 1

I think it would be interesting to since we have Will and Katie head to get their experience as well of the and the secret storage or so. First going to you, Katie, could you just kind of give us an introduction into who you are and then we'll go on to, well, if you could introduce yourself and then we'll kind of chat a bit about your experience with The Secret Story Draw as well.

00;07;26;18 - 00;07;40;02

Speaker 4

Sure. So I'm Katie. I'm one of the winners and I've got Internship Day and I'm currently a junior designer animation company.

00;07;40;02 - 00;07;50;13

Speaker 3

Yeah, I was well, I was 23, 39. I'm currently I'm working as global it's happening team of the.

00;07;50;13 - 00;07;59;06

Speaker 1

Industry's amazing and so question for both of you is kind of how did you find out about it and what was the process for you and your experience?

00;07;59;06 - 00;08;24;00

Speaker 4

Yeah. So for me, it's literally an ad on Instagram. So just scrolling through Instagram like during pandemic, like everyone was like, Oh, this looks interesting. So I clicked on it and I read that I'm like, Oh, I qualify. And at that time I've gradually outed from uniform. I'm going to go looking for jobs myself, try it. And so I did.

00;08;24;12 - 00;08;40;01

Speaker 4

And then I'm like, Oh, this is really cute. Like, I love the stories. I'm like, I'm just going to give a try not to expect anything. And I and I want something that was really cool.

00;08;40;01 - 00;08;41;20

Speaker 1

And what was your experience with.

00;08;42;12 - 00;09;09;09

Speaker 3

Actually Found Out on? There was a group, Facebook group that I joined while the of like animators and came and came up yeah they suggested that I am or there was a good opportunity trying to break through for a while and yeah, that's how I did. I did not mean like I didn't expect it at all was very, very exciting.

00;09;09;09 - 00;09;17;13

Speaker 3

Day was one of the best days I could remember, really just so ecstatic about it. So yeah.

00;09;17;13 - 00;09;36;04

Speaker 1

Fantastic. Fantastic. I had one other question, which was Sophie, your experience, was it the do you think it made a real difference kind of in terms of was it something that opened up real opportunities that you felt that there was kind of a closed door that before and me?

00;09;36;04 - 00;09;44;29

Speaker 3

Yes, absolutely. I mean, I can't emphasize enough how big this how because I'm it's all about momentum and, you know.

00;09;45;04 - 00;09;46;11

Speaker 1

Being able to be.

00;09;46;27 - 00;10;13;13

Speaker 3

I'm having that it was a classic racing story going it could have been that which was amazing. I'm really down to more and more people actually and help me get into screen skills which also helped me get most training jump at the industries. So it was really just like it's like a little seed advance, it grows and you see the struggles that seem to grow too.

00;10;13;13 - 00;10;20;21

Speaker 3

I am so yeah, absolutely. And I can't stress enough how it's really helped my career.

00;10;20;21 - 00;10;20;29

Speaker 4

Right.

00;10;21;20 - 00;10;33;27

Speaker 2

And Katie, tell us tell us a little bit about how long it took you to come up with your idea and your submission based on the stories that had been written for the secret storage. Well.

00;10;35;12 - 00;11;11;25

Speaker 4

Oh, gosh, let me think. How long did it take? Maybe a week of constantly working. So those stories on the website and there's quite a few and I sort of picked one that I liked the most. And for me that was the little take on sort of just because the character had a little cute hat and I was really into hats during that time and they're like, This character has a hat, I'm going to draw it.

00;11;12;11 - 00;11;32;24

Speaker 4

And so that was that's how I decided. And that took roughly about a week from the initial ideas and then like finalizing and getting used to characters proportions and then drawing like turnarounds and expressions and yeah, about a week to think.

00;11;32;24 - 00;11;45;25

Speaker 2

And what was the process then? What did you do after that? Can you talk a little bit about what you had to do with your ideas after that? Did you upload it to the state secret storage or website?

00;11;45;25 - 00;12;07;25

Speaker 4

Yes. And so I think we had a little upload portal thing. When you feel about your details, your name, your friends emails and then you just uploaded like, I don't know, to like a PG of my designs were submit and that was it very quick.

00;12;09;14 - 00;12;21;21

Speaker 2

So John I'm going to whilst we talking to Will and Katie about the process and having done it once, do you want to jump in here and talk about what is that process for anybody interested in perhaps submitting this year?

00;12;23;04 - 00;12;38;04

Speaker 3

Yeah, so we changed it ever so slightly this year. I think one of the things that we found out about last year is that we had too many stories, so we'd reduced the number of stories. So we've got six this year. And if you go to a secret story, drill well, WWE, I mean, the secret story, draw the org.

00;12;39;01 - 00;13;06;16

Speaker 3

You can find everything you need to know about the competition, why we're doing it. And then on that, you can find six stories that have been written anonymously by our writers. You can pick one of those that should offer you some creative inspiration to come up with an illustration or an animation used to create that. And, you know, in a week or a few days, depending on, you know, what your process is like, and then you upload that to the site and that's all you need to do.

00;13;06;16 - 00;13;45;00

Speaker 3

You get confirmation telling you it's been uploaded and then it gets it gets reviewed by a panel of very esteemed judges. So I don't know if Katie and I will sort of knew who would been looking at their artwork. But, you know, so Axel Scheffler, the guy, Craig the Gruffalo, he was one of the judges. You know, he looks at your artwork that the head of Tiger aspect, the at Nickelodeon that one of the senior creatives from Aardman from jellyfish you know the agent from I think April Joshi from a production she looked at it.

00;13;45;10 - 00;14;03;15

Speaker 3

So there was a you know, we had a good old chap. I had a really good conversation about I think it was about 250 submissions in the end. And, you know, it was it was it was touch and go on some of them in terms of like who made the cut and who didn't make the cut. So yeah, it was a very rigorous process.

00;14;03;29 - 00;14;30;26

Speaker 3

And then once we've got the winners, then we had a little bit of a bunfight with the studios on who wanted who, you know, and, and it was really down to sometimes it was down to the availability of the, of the intern and where the internship was going to be. Sometimes it was down to one studio wanting a particular intern over another, you know, but it all worked out.

00;14;31;19 - 00;14;55;02

Speaker 3

It worked out really well. In the end, I think everybody ended up at a studio that was was good. And I think everyone got something out of it. You know, I wouldn't say it was 100% successful. I know there was one or two of the internships that didn't really pan out the way that they'd hoped. But that's that's kind of life, too, you know, that, you know, sometimes these things work out, sometimes they don't.

00;14;55;26 - 00;15;25;19

Speaker 3

But I think I would like to say the majority of people took part of a had a meaningful experience at the first, you know, at least. And then some of them like Katie and Will and Sally and I think so got the name now. But quite a few people have actually gone on to secure further work or full time jobs, which is absolutely the that's the dream outcome.

00;15;25;29 - 00;15;47;21

Speaker 3

That's an outcome that I wasn't really anticipating. It was like, okay, I'm going to give people three months experience. They can put on their CV and it'll be down to them to kind of, you know, work it, you know, like we all do in this industry, you know. But yeah, you know, like, you know, Will's got a job at Blink Industries now and Katie's, I think.

00;15;47;21 - 00;15;49;16

Speaker 3

Where are you? Illuminate illumination, is that right?

00;15;50;11 - 00;15;51;18

Speaker 4

Illuminated films.

00;15;52;27 - 00;16;11;04

Speaker 3

Illuminated. You know, it's it's amazing. You know, it's you know, we've got people in jobs in the industry, you know, I know that the star of the start of their journey, they start their career. So who knows where they're going to end up. They might end up judging the secret storage or in ten years time.

00;16;11;04 - 00;16;28;13

Speaker 1

That's great. And I think, you know, that's that's life changing, really, that opening that door up thing. That's amazing. I'm kind of interested when you were talking about how you set it up and the fact that a lot of other studios were involved, were you kind of instrumental in bringing on those studios and kind of approaching them? How did that work?

00;16;28;14 - 00;16;37;18

Speaker 1

Is it because that's a big part of it? Is that building, that network of studios is kind of where the opportunity comes. So that kind of that's how it you're making it happen, really.

00;16;37;25 - 00;17;04;18

Speaker 3

Yeah. So I've got I've got Cobra to thank a little bit. So I was basically locked in a about for every day for you know, 18 months and, you know, work was drying up jolly wise. MARTIN The studio that I run or we weren't very busy and I just had a lot of I just had a lot of time not to kill, but I just took my time.

00;17;04;28 - 00;17;29;24

Speaker 3

So I would I would say on an average day, I would make 13 phone calls a day every day to people I didn't know or people I did know. And I would sell them in on the case for action. Why? It was the thing was important, why the initiative was important. And then they would either say, Send me some more information or they would go, No, thanks, but I thought about contacting this person and the whole thing just sort of snowballed.

00;17;30;05 - 00;17;53;19

Speaker 3

So the, you know, it's this industry is not very big, as you both know, and as well. And Katie, you'll you'll get to learn the industry is not actually that big, which is good and bad. Good, because you can get introduced to people. They can further your aims relatively quickly if they align with what they want to do.

00;17;54;21 - 00;18;17;12

Speaker 3

And that is that, you know, if you upset somebody so word gets around, you know, but, you know, on the positive, you know, on the positive, it's it's it's a relatively good network to get into and, you know, this industry is all about networks, really. People move around a lot and they remember people that they had a good experience with and they want to work with them again.

00;18;17;12 - 00;18;38;11

Speaker 3

When they go somewhere else. So and so that's kind of how this things just snowballed. It just took on a life of its own. And I had incredible support from people like Greg Turner's media conference, Jackie the BFI, who is a fantastic champion of it. I mean, you got people like that on board and they're like serial connectors because they know everybody.

00;18;38;27 - 00;18;56;27

Speaker 3

If they tell somebody that this is a really great initiative, then, you know, you're you're halfway there. I remember Jackie saying to me, John, this sounds amazing, but we've got to make sure at the end of this, this has got a really nice smell about it, because if it's got a really nice sort of smell about the end of it, then you'll be able to do it again.

00;18;56;27 - 00;19;00;21

Speaker 3

It'll be easier next year. And she was right. It's been a lot easier this year.

00;19;01;14 - 00;19;24;15

Speaker 2

And just before we wrap up, I want to come back to you, Will and Katie, to see what piece of advice would you offer to artists or illustrators, designers, animators who are looking to break into the industry and maybe even considering putting in an entry to the secret story draw? What tip or piece of advice would you give them or come to you first, Katie, and then to you.

00;19;25;00 - 00;19;29;12

Speaker 2

What would you say?

00;19;29;12 - 00;20;05;22

Speaker 4

I think just go for it and just hold on to just pick a story that you like, you know, have a chance of winning something because personally, that puts pressure on myself when I'm like stress, I don't produce any good art. So pick something that you really like and just go for it for this competition. But in general, I think I don't know, all those things just keep keep at it.

00;20;05;22 - 00;20;21;16

Speaker 4

Like you will find an opportunity that will see like opportunity that will fit you and you will like it. You will find something if you just keep it and on the way, keep improving and.

00;20;21;16 - 00;20;28;14

Speaker 2

Great. Thank you. And how about you? Well, what's what advice, what nugget of inspiration might you offer on celebrity?

00;20;28;15 - 00;20;43;16

Speaker 3

What Katie said is great. We'll see good stories or just, you know, just go for it. It's something that you laughing out of your heart like, no, not about yourself. You do it. Yeah, absolutely. Enjoy it.

00;20;44;25 - 00;20;58;16

Speaker 2

Amazing. That's fabulous. Well, I think we should end just by you giving us an overview of how this year is shaping up, John, and any updates that our listeners might need to be aware of if they're thinking of entering.

00;20;59;02 - 00;21;26;07

Speaker 3

So the key date is the 16th of September. That's the closing date for entries this year. We may or may not extend that depending on where we are. I will say that we are struggling with Instagram's new algorithm change. You know, we seem to be struggling to reach the same similar audience that we did last year, but I can't remember who it is now.

00;21;26;07 - 00;21;41;05

Speaker 3

But I talked to somebody from Blue Peter Law last year when we got to about two weeks out and I was looking in the database and we had barely any entries and I started to panic. Oh my God, this is a disaster. This is going to be awful and I'm going to have no entries. I look like a complete idiot.

00;21;41;20 - 00;22;03;01

Speaker 3

And he said that the Blue Peter competitions that they run on live TV, you know, three days before they're on air, they had no they'd have no entries. Then all of a sudden the punchbag was just arrive and I'd just be full of stuff. So I've kind of got my fingers crossed that that's the case this year. If it's not, then well, you know, we might have to push to that.

00;22;03;08 - 00;22;25;20

Speaker 3

We might have to push out the the deadline for and then I'd really go for it all on social media and probably spend a little bit of money trying to boost posts. But, you know, we're getting there. 16th September is the closing date, you know, and like I say, there are nine fantastic studios this year. BBC's on board this year gutsy animation are also new.

00;22;26;17 - 00;22;51;16

Speaker 3

The guys behind Moomins and also Wild Charles opened up in Scotland. They're also new this year. So you know, fantastic studios, fantastic opportunities and you know, you know, I mean, you know, take Will and Katie's word for it. You know, it it does lead to something it's, you know, and you also get like you get a trophy as well, which is really heavy, which I can't believe how big they are.

00;22;51;16 - 00;22;55;11

Speaker 3

When I saw them go out, I was like, wow, I must be a fortune in postage.

00;22;56;06 - 00;22;56;19

Speaker 1

Amazing.

00;22;57;05 - 00;23;16;28

Speaker 2

Well, thank you. I've really enjoyed that. It's been lovely to meet you, Will and Katie. And we you know, we're big supporters of secrets. Draw, we draw. So we'll make sure that we give it a plug on our own social media and through the kids media cast as well. So if we can't get your post back, nice and heavy again this year, John, thank you again for joining us today.

00;23;16;28 - 00;23;26;06

Speaker 2

It's been really, really interesting. And we will we will get this put up on our podcast page and shed as far and wide as we can share.

00;23;26;06 - 00;23;30;21

Speaker 3

It's fabulous. Thank you very much, Joe. Thank you.

00;23;30;27 - 00;23;39;04

Speaker 1

I'm sure if you enjoyed the podcast, please write this episode and subscribe to the series. It would be enormously appreciated.

00;23;40;02 - 00;23;46;09

Speaker 2

And thank you very much for listening. We really hope that you tune into the next episode by.