Peach, a PhD student at the University of Cambridge, interviews Professor Jagbir Jhutti Johal from the University of Birmingham about the role of women in interfaith activities. Professor Jhutti Johal discusses the increasing prominence of women in interfaith dialogue, emphasizing the need for support and mentorship to facilitate these conversations. They also talk about the importance of community engagement and academics co-producing research with communities. The discussion includes insights into empowering other underrepresented voices, such as young people, those with disabilities, and the LGBT community, in interfaith conversations and policy-making.

Part of the UK Interfaith Futures series.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

00:50 The Role of Women in Interfaith Activities

02:44 Academics and Interfaith Engagement

05:20 Challenges and Opportunities in Interfaith Dialogue

10:36 Underrepresented Voices in Interfaith Conversations

16:51 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Hello, I'm Peach, and I'm a PhD student at the Faculty of Divinity at the University of Cambridge. My research considers the orientation of women's interfaith activities within the contemporary British public sphere.

I'm pleased to welcome my guest today, Professor Jagbir Jhutti Johal.

Hello, Peach.

Jagbir is a professor of Sikh studies at the University of Birmingham, whose teaching and research focuses on Sikh identity, theology, and community, as well as interfaith dialogue and gender inequality.

She is a presenter on BBC Radio 4's Thought for the Day segment, and has been awarded an OBE for her services to higher education, faith communities, and the voluntary sector. She is also a founding member of the Women's Faith Forum.

Thank you so much for joining me today for this discussion.

My first question for you is, as I just mentioned, you're a founding member of the Women's Faith Forum, which brings together women of faith with policy makers and politicians.

I wondered, how do you envision the role of women in interfaith changing over the next decade? And is this something where the Sikh community has particular lessons to offer or things to learn?

Thank you, Peach, for having me.

Firstly, I think in my humble opinion, I think women are going to step into the light and start taking more of a prominent role within the interfaith sphere.

In previous years, I think the main focus within the interfaith sphere has been speaking to all male leaders as all gatekeepers having these kind of interfaith conversations and women seemed to be on the periphery or in the sidelines. But what I've recently started to see is more women coming into the arena and speaking about issues that are affecting them.

They are coming together as women in, in groups, like the Women's Faith Forum to address issues that are affecting them, but also to address issues on how they can maintain relationships in difficult times, such as when there are global conflicts or when there are national issues that are playing out.

So I think the role of women within the interfaith sphere is going to grow. And more and more women will come into the open to discuss these issues. But I think there needs to be a level of that support around them. And women who have had a long standing relationship in that interfaith sphere need to be able to facilitate those conversations.

Thank you. So I've already mentioned your involvement in the Women's Faith Forum, and I know you're also a founding participant in the Faith & Belief Policy Collective, which issued an open letter to the incoming government back in June. So from your vantage point, why is it worth academics and interfaith practitioners engaging in such activity, and what does it mean for the future of interfaith research and working?

Okay, so I think as academics particularly when we are studying lived religion we have to engage with the communities that we are studying and focusing on and as an academic myself who focuses on the Sikh community. I think you have to build a relationship with the people that you are working with, and you have to I suppose what we call now in the academic arena, “co-produce” research.

It's not that we're doing the research, but actually we're talking to the communities and trying to understand what the issues are that are affecting them and trying to engage with them in terms of, having dialogues and how to address issues that are affecting them.

But you were saying, that there is an upsurge in new organizations.

And I think that is true. And I think that's because there have been organizations, which haven't fulfilled their remit. Or there have been organizations like the Inter Faith Network which have been shut down. So there's now a gap within the field.

And I think what you are seeing, with, for example, the Faith & Belief Policy Collective, or the Women's Faith Forum is that we're seeing that there's a gap that needs to be filled so that we can have those kinds of conversations. One within the communities and particularly with women, but also then how we as community members engage with one another firstly, but also how we then engage in relationships with policymakers and those in power so that we convey what the issues are. Because with not having the Inter Faith Network currently, there needs to be some sort of organization or group that allows that conversation to be facilitated.

And I think that's where some of the new organizations will fill that gap and do it. But I think also when we're talking about community and community research and why as academics we need to take part, I think it's important because if we are focused on the communities, we can't just stand on the periphery or on the outside and just see what's happening and then write about it. Actually, we need to engage with the community to try and understand why things are being done or what the issues are and how, what they mean and how we address them.

And I think, personally, from my own experience, what I call myself is I'm the academic, but I'm also the activist.

So I have two roles. I'm advocating for my community, also the interfaith community. But then I'm also doing the research on my community or within the interfaith sphere. And to do that, you have to build those relationships of trust, and you only build those relationships of trust I think is once you have those conversations within the communities, you demonstrate you're not there to do research on them, but you're there to work with them to create research, which will help the community or the communities to address issues that are affecting them.

What I say is that it's trying to be inclusive in trying to create some sort of transformational change for, say, women, for example, which is a passion of mine, in the communities. Or for the interfaith communities as a whole. Particularly when we're in such challenging times at the moment with reference to global conflict becoming local issues here.

And how do we maintain those relationships and how do we ensure that women are given that space, for example, to have those conversations? And this takes me back. I think I just want to go back to the first question that you'd asked me. I think in terms of the role of women in the next decade, I think it's going to be very important because we live in such a polarized world and there's so much division that has been created.

And when conflicts become local, those conversations need to be had. And you'll see a bias in what I'm going to say, but I do feel that sometimes when men are involved in these kinds of conversations, they bring a lot of their political baggage with them or their power baggage with them. So they have an agenda within how they engage in interfaith dialogue.

Whilst I think when it's women who are engaging in interfaith dialogue, that baggage doesn't come along with them, that political baggage. They're there because they are sincere in their efforts to ensure that they maintain community cohesion or understanding about the other and that they are actually, we say in Sikhi, Suniai or Sunya, which means listening.

They're actually listening to each other, right? They're not just saying, this is what's happening to me, and then want everybody else to respond. They're actually listening to the other to understand what's going on. And I think that's where that transformational kind of change within this interfaith sphere will come in.

I'm not disrespecting the men, but I just feel that the male leaderships or the gatekeepers to communities, the way that they've had their conversation has been in a particular way, while women come at it from a different angle. And I think this is where, as women, we're mothers, we're sisters, we're daughters. We understand what's going on within our families or within our communities, so we try and use that knowledge to help us. To think, right, how do we address these issues? How do we maintain relationships so that we avoid conflicts playing out within our young people's lives or within our own lives and everything?

So, yeah, I think, I see them as coming more to the forefront. And if we as academics can support that in providing women with the academic knowledge because they will already have that faith- based knowledge. But also, it's a mentorship kind of relationship where we support them in how to advocate for what they are wanting to advocate for.

I'm in a privileged position as an academic where I have access to certain seats at the table. But how do I use that privilege then to ensure that members of my own community, but also members of the Muslim community, the Jewish community, the Hindu community, particularly the women, have access to that seat at that table?

And I, as an academic who has that position, I can try and facilitate that. And I think that's a responsibility that I have to take on board.

Thank you. That very neatly takes me to our final question, actually.

So across your academic and public and voluntary work and your activism, you're often engaged in uplifting voices and concerns that are frequently overlooked.

So I wondered, we've talked a bit about women, but which other voices do you feel are underrepresented in interfaith conversations today? And what can we all do to uplift those voices?

I focus on women, but I also focus on young people, right? Young people, they are just learning or they are just getting into the field.

They need that support and mentorship so that they feel confident to take up that seat at that table. At the moment I feel that some of those young people are missing from those tables because they self exclude themselves because they feel that they might not have the knowledge or that they shouldn't be at that table.

But my argument is that they should be there and as an academic and as an advocate or activist within the community, it's my responsibility to seek out who some of those young people are and try and get them a seat at that table and provide them with that mentorship, etc.

But I also feel that in the interfaith sphere, and this is really important in the current context, particularly with reference to the economic climate, and government policies and everything , those with disabilities are missing from that table, right? And they, and those people of faith who have disabilities, they bring a particular kind of perspective to certain debates.

We've currently got the assisted dying bill that's going through parliament and everything. Where are the voices of those from the faith community who have disability and who might feel vulnerable, right? Who is advocating for them ? You have people who are advocating against or for the bill, but I just think that sometimes, just thinking about it with reference to this one issue, where are those people with disabilities and of faith in this debate?

We've got the leaders talking about it. Where are the actual people who this would have an impact on, or who would feel impacted by, where are they? I think that for me, they need to be at that table. So I mentioned the assisted dying bill. You have within the NHS, this whole system of social prescribing, around mental health and everything.

So where are those people with those kinds of conditions? Young people or the elderly who need to be spoken to and who need to be given a voice to express their concerns.

And I suppose the other thing I would say, so women, young people, those with disabilities, and then you would say with the LGBT community that they have to also have a seat at that table. Because they will have particular issues. And sometimes some people will say, well you want everybody at that table. But that's not the point. The point is, that people with certain issues or from certain backgrounds will have certain needs and they will bring a particular faith perspective to that table and they need to be heard.

I cannot speak for somebody who is LGBT on the issues around faith. Right? But I can try and provide them with a seat at the table. I can't speak to the issue around how faith and mental health impacts, say for example, me as a Sikh, because I'm not impacted by it. But I can use my research on that topic, to talk about it, but what needs to be heard in these kinds of spheres is an actual person who is an advocate or who is involved in that kind of work to be able to convey the lived reality.

And I think that's what's important.

You have to bring people to the table who can provide that lived reality. I can provide the academic lens, but I can also provide you with the lived reality of myself as a faith person, but also as an advocate from within my community who talks to women who suffer from domestic violence or who, there are, issues around disability or economic inequality and everything.

I can bring those realities to the table.

But it's better to have somebody who is actually affected by it or who is working 24/7 on those issues, to be at that table and talking. So I think it's that situation of when you as somebody who has been in the sphere and who has been at that table, you pick up, you notice who is missing from that table.

And then it's your responsibility or my responsibility, for example, to ensure that I flag up: hold on a second. I think you were talking about X, Y, Z issues, but there's this organization who does this. Maybe you should have that person at the table talking about it and not just listen to me who knows about them. Right?

We all have a responsibility to recognize who those are who are vulnerable but who are not at that table. I think it's the Sikh concept of Sarbat Da Bhala, the welfare of all, that really sticks in my mind, and I'm like always thinking, okay, what am I doing? How am I going to ensure that the well being of everyone within society is protected?

And if I want to ensure that, I can't do that on my own, right? There have to be other people at that table. So who is missing? And for me, it's always been women, young people, first and second, and then three, I think those with disability. And they are the most vulnerable within our society, right?

And we have to provide them with that seat. And we have to use our own positions and privilege to do it.

Thank you so much. That is a really full response.

That's my final question. So I just wanted to thank you again for speaking with me today.

Thank you, Peach, for having me.