This week on Free RANGE, Luke and both Erin/Aarons discussed an unexpected nationalist rabbit hole Hedge dove down, the contours of a new bike box program for people biking to City Hall (Spoiler alert, it's not all it's cracked up to be) and a Sellers deep-dive into numbers for the city's new homeless scatter sites, focusing on one that's opened beds for 30 medically fragile unhoused people at Westminster United Church of Christ.

Hey, it's Aaron.

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This week on The Pod, Luke, other

Aaron, and I discuss an unexpected

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nationalist rabbit hole I dove down.

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The contours of a new bike box program

for people biking to City Hall.

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Spoiler alert, it's not

all it's cracked up to be.

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And Sellers dives deep into numbers for

the city's new homeless scatter sites,

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focusing on one that's opened beds for

30 medically fragile unhoused people

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at Westminster United Church of Christ.

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Some good news to leave the week

with, and some other odds and ends.

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Okay, this is technically my

third try, but I'm assuming you

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didn't hear the first two tries.

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This is Free Range, a co

production of KYRS and Range Media.

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I'm also having technical difficulties.

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It's Luke's first day back,

so of course everything that

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can go wrong has gone wrong.

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I also have a new phone, and

I'm driving a rental car for

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reasons we don't need to get into.

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I dropped these two off about ten

minutes ago, and then I realized

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the other technical difficulty I

was having is I haven't downloaded

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any of the parking apps on my phone.

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So I'm just doing a great job here, guys.

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But I am glad to be back, because I've

been sick, and then it was the holidays,

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and then, as Aaron said last week,

I had some boss coded stuff to do.

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And I kind of realized this has

quickly become a pretty grounding

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part of my week, and I hope it

is for all the listeners at home.

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It's kind of a way for us to talk about

the reporting we've done, but then

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also the stuff we're working through.

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And we're going to be doing a little

bit of that today as well, but We

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also got a note earlier today from

at least one reader who said they're

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really glad we're on the, they might

be rethinking that email after they

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heard the start to the show, but they're

really glad we're on the radio, too.

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So how do you feel about it, Selish?

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Oh, I really like it.

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I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I'm glad

you're back, Luke, but I had a lot

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of fun being in charge the last two

weeks, so I'm kind of sad to give

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some of that editorial control away.

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One of the things I'm really starting

to love is the opportunity, like

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I was saying a second ago, to talk

about the news in development, which

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actually brings us to our hopefully

semi permanent third mic, Aaron Hedge.

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Hey Aaron, how you doing?

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I'm doing well, how are y'all doing?

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Well, catching my breath, but

other than that, pretty good.

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Yeah, Luke's trying not to

just like pant into his mic.

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I think I'm, breath control.

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I'm pretty proud of myself.

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I do want to say, I also, I had

a very similar note from one of

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my readers who said they were

really glad we were on the radio.

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So, that's two.

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We have at least two listeners, which I'm

sure is below the average for KYRS, but

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we're, you know, we're doing some on the,

on the ground polling from listeners.

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But on the topic of in development

stuff, I was running around Hedge,

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I wanted to chat with you to start.

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Running around this morning, and when I

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interview, and the first thing I hear

you say is, So I'm a straight white man.

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Are you saying I'm oppressed?

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Who are you talking to?

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Or maybe we don't want to say who you

were talking to, but why were you talking

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to the person you were talking to?

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So I'm reporting on a story

that I'm not going to give

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too much detail on right now.

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We're going to try to drop it on Monday.

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But this story that I've been working

on brought me through social media

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to a guy who He's just a working

class dude who lives in Spokane.

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Interesting, has a little bit

of similar history with me.

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About my age.

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Was also in the Navy for a

while in a very similar job

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that I worked when I was there.

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And this guy's kind of a, he's kind

of a, He's kind of a gadfly in local

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government circles, not, he doesn't show

up to the meetings so much as he's just

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has a very strong presence on, on this.

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He's an online gadfly, he just

frequents the comment sections

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of posts on social media.

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Yeah, maybe, maybe gadfly is

the wrong word, but he's just,

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he's a prolific commenter.

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I'm sure y'all have those in your life.

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I was trying to figure out this guy,

and I don't think he's necessarily

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going to become a character in my story,

but he made some posts on Facebook

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that I was very interested in that I

needed to follow up on, and I found

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out a little bit about his history.

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He's had some run ins with With local

law enforcement through some just

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some troubles that he had in his life.

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And he seems to be struggling a good bit.

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And he has some, he seems to

have some, some anger issues

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towards specific individuals in,

on, on the Spokane City Council.

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But also groups of people.

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Groups of people well yeah, so like, and

groups of people that are represented

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on the council, including queer folks.

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And he's, he's a, my perception He's

throwing around a lot of anatomical terms

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that I can't say on the radio during the

part of the interview I could overhear.

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He's he's, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's

a He's, he's a deeply Christian man

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which, and I think that he, and I didn't

ask him this specifically, but he seems

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to veer quite heavily into Christian,

Christian nationalist views of the world

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and he, He made some comments about,

like, specific communities in Spokane.

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Specifically, immigrant communities.

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Who he feels I asked him if he feels

like they belong here, and he said,

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he said, you know, if they're here

legally he's okay with them being

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here, but he made some comments about

how, Their culture should not be

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represented in public spaces, in, We're

not scooping ourselves to say that.

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We were chasing the story because like,

the anti Haitian hate that we heard during

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the presidential campaign, especially

in that town in Ohio, is, there was a

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Haitian celebration, and there was vitriol

in Spokane around similar things, so

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part of what you're running down is the

extent to which this stuff's happening.

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Yeah, essentially.

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So, so January 1st is Haitian,

is the Haitian Independence Day.

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Right.

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And the city wanted to recognize that.

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And they, they held an event

outside of the city council chambers

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in the Chase Gallery out there.

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Where there, there are frequently events

that are dedicated to specific communities

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all kinds of different communities.

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And they, they had invited group that

kind of gets resources together for,

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for Haitians who, you know, like, who,

who've come here through often troubling

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circumstances and don't necessarily feel

welcomed into the community immediately

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because, just because, partly because

they're just not as visible as other

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communities, but also there's a lot of

undercurrent of, of racism and When they

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posted the announcement for this event,

the post on Facebook was sort of flooded

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with these comments saying that, you

know, Haitians are not native to the

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United States, and we shouldn't be And the

people had this false perception that we

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were spending, that Spokane was spending

public resources to host this event.

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They just give them space outside

of the city council chambers.

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They don't It's kind of

like the Chase Gallery.

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So there's like art that's just And

then sometimes they just, I've been to

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a couple of their resource fairs where

they just let groups come in, set up

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tables, hand out resources, free food.

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I've gotten some like killer

empanadas before city council

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meetings every once in a while.

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The I, I chatted with one of the

organizers of the event and she, she

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talked about the food that they had.

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It made me really hungry.

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The Haitian food.

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Yeah.

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But, so, so, so this guy was one of the

commenters, and, and I felt like I needed

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to understand his worldview better.

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And so, I reached out to him

through a number of channels.

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It was really, it was actually

pretty tough to get in touch with

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him, but I left messages a bunch

of places, including on Facebook.

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And he finally called me back.

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And I just had, he, he gave me, he was

very generous with his time, and he wasn't

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offended by any of the questions I asked.

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I think he probably knew that if I

ended up writing about him, which

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I don't think I necessarily will

directly, that he wouldn't, it wouldn't,

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like, he's not gonna be, you know,

the central good guy in the story.

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We're not trying to

platform those ideas, yeah.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And he got that but it got, the

conversation kind of veered into

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ideas of, What makes somebody

a natural citizen of a nation?

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And I had had conversations with some

folks, some advocates for immigrants,

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and you know, they pointed out, and I

personally agree with this, I don't think

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there's really any group here besides

indigenous communities, the native

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tribes that were here when Europeans

came here who are native to this area.

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But this guy, he had a very

specific definition of it.

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He said, if you're born here,

then, then you're a native.

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And if you're not, then you're

not, and you shouldn't necessarily.

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I don't know if he would say it this way.

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The way that I understood it

was, if you're not a native, then

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maybe you shouldn't have as much

representation in public spaces.

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And he also said that, you know,

seeing this, he's a straight white

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dude he He said that he felt like

he was being excluded from this

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event, which was is not true.

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Like he could have gone to the event and

enjoyed the food and caught up with some

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of the folks who were who were there

celebrating the Haitian Independence Day.

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And it just, you know, it got into

some some pretty deep and troubling.

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areas of like just where we're at

as a nation and obviously this, this

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specific conversation mirrors a very

troubling conversation that was had

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a controversy on the national level.

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During the presidential election,

we all remember when Donald Trump,

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during the debate with Kamala

Harris, was talking about Haitian

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communities in Springfield, Ohio.

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Well, and J.

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D.

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Vance did the same thing,

since he's from Ohio, yeah.

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Yeah, and they talked about

how they falsely claimed that

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Haitian immigrants were stealing

people's pets and eating them.

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And J.

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D.

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Vance later doubled down on it,

even when he acknowledged that

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that that was like, not true.

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Like, they know that it's not true.

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They still double down on it.

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And, I just think it reflects

a really deep Undercurrent

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of racism in our society.

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Yeah.

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The guy that I talked to probably

doesn't agree with that statement,

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but it was, it was, it was a

really agree that it's racism.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I think when you, he said it

was racism to have the event at all.

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Right.

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Because I think, right.

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The quote that I overheard him say

to you that I wrote down was, I don't

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feel included when black people are

celebrating Haitian Independence Day.

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There are no white Haitians.

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Which is actually just patently false.

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He said a lot of things

that were patently false.

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I think I was like frantically fact

checking and sending you, like, articles

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while you were on the phone with him.

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My phone was buzzing with Slack

notifications from Aaron Sellers.

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No, it was, it was, It was

very helpful, actually.

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But I just think it reflects that

kind of ideology that if something is

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not about me, then it's excluding me.

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When it's actually like, no, something can

center somebody else, and they are like,

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having it in a public space, and inviting

you to engage, and learn, and meet new

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people, and be in community, and I think

that that's a really beautiful thing.

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He felt excluded.

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Although he did say that

he came to the meeting.

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So Well, I think, I think it, it really

speaks to this moment that we're having

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and a lot of people use the F word, an

F word that we can say on the radio,

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fascism, is that this guy, like, he's

He, I perceive him as being unwell and

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I don't, like, I can't make diagnoses,

but he just, he seemed like very worked

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up by a lot of this stuff, and he

feels forgotten by society, and that's

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not, he's, he's a working class guy,

he's a veteran It's not necessarily

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untrue that he is forgotten by society.

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Yeah, white and class people in general,

I mean that was a huge, that was a huge

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narrative in the national election, yeah.

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The hard thing is, when, when you have

to, He, he doesn't have any access to,

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The extreme wealth and, and, and the,

and the wealth inequality that exists

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in this country that really creates

the dynamics of those situations.

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And so the things that I mean,

he is a business owner, though.

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And I don't know, I don't know

anything about his business.

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It seems like a young business.

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I don't know, I don't

even know if it's active.

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He has a website, but I don't know a whole

lot about it, so I, I can't speak to his

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business, but he, he is a business owner.

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But he He, he, he doesn't seem to

see the structural inequalities

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that, that I perceive in society.

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And it creates an environment where

people like that, they need somebody

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to blame for their situation.

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And so who are they going to blame?

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You know, it's the people they

see who don't look like them, who,

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who pop up in, in social media.

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And I think that that is like, I

think that's one of the really scary

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moments of this moment that we're in

in society is this idea that, you know,

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if you're struggling, you can blame

the people that you see in the grocery

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store for your troubles who aren't you.

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Not the, you know, contrasted with the

sort of Luigi Mangione, you know, the

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CEOs of the problem discourse that's

happening a lot at the national level.

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I also think that one of the things

that's kind of interesting to me is

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we, we were talking about sort of

how, you know, we, national myths,

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national narratives are part of how

power is created across the board.

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And since the beginning of time,

this has been true, you know,

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this is Joseph Campbell, it's you

said Yusuf Harari or whatever.

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You've all known Harari, yeah.

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All that's true, and then when you think

about, like, the way the Divine Rite

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of Kings gave way to mercantilism, gave

way to capitalism, it's like, that was

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a national, or that was not a national

narrative, it was more like a, sort of

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a Western civilization narrative around,

like, the way we organize ourselves is

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ordained by God, and then at some point

These merchants who got increasingly

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wealthy were like well, I'm not the one

running this, you know, like it's not God

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making this economy run, it's me and then,

you know, that's how we got capitalism

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and there was hundreds of years of turmoil

in there, you know you made a point that

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I thought was really smart that we're,

we're in a similar, it feels like we're

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at a similar inflection point where The

narratives that we've, you know, the,

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the dominant narratives of the, the, say

the 20th century, especially the post war

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narratives of, you know, we're, we're,

America is the, the peacekeeper of the

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world and we're the most dominant economy.

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Really not working for people, you

know, in we've got an inequality

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that's worse than it's been since

or maybe even worse now than even

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the Gilded Age 100 years ago.

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And that is leading to the breakdown

of a lot of those narratives.

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One of the things that we haven't

talked about yet that I was

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thinking about as I was running up

here that was so fascinating is.

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You also talked to him about his, you

know, sort of his religious position,

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like what church he goes to and stuff.

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And it's not one of the Christian

nationalist, like really,

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really xenophobic churches.

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And what really struck me about that

conversation was, is not that people

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can't go to different churches than

their ideologies, because plenty

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of people do that, but that I have

relatives who go to a very similar church

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to the one that he's talking about.

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And I actually have.

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A family member who was adopted

from Haiti like 15 years ago.

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And so there was, there's a movement

and my brother also was adopted

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from Mexico, you know, 30 years ago.

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And there was this movement in charismatic

Christianity that was all about bring

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those, you know, those troubled souls who

might not have God in their lives at all.

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Or they might be Catholic, which is

basically the same thing as not having

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God in their lives to people, to certain

brand of charismatic Christianity.

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And then, but bring them here, like

for the love of God, take them out of

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Haiti, take them out of Mexico, take

them out of communist Russia, take

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them out of China, bring them here.

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And now 20 years later, people go

into the same kinds of churches

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are now saying, keep them out,

keep them out, keep them out.

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And I find that really,

really fascinating.

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Another piece that was

super fascinating was.

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Loves Trump.

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Hates Elon Musk.

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Which is Nah, I wouldn't

say he loves Trump.

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He just said he was voting

for the lesser of two evils.

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Okay, I missed that part

of the Trump, though.

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I was actually trying to do work at the

time, so I was over, only over here,

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but, but the idea of that, there's also,

we've already seen around immigration

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specifically, a schism, like Trump isn't

even in office yet, and we've seen this,

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the, the H 1B visa fight already play

out between basically the capitalists,

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the Trump capitalists, like Elon Musk,

and the Trump nationalists, like who's

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Miller, what's Miller's first name?

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Stephen Miller, yeah.

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Stephen Miller, yeah.

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And that is.

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Not only is that playing out nationally,

that seems to be sort of playing out in

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this guy's worldview, to some extent.

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It was really, it's really, and it's

interesting that you bring up Miller

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there was, who's, you know, been a,

like, there's been a lot of like, I,

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I think people are probably a little

too flippant about applying the Nazi

304

label, but You know, he, he explicitly,

one, one of his posts on Facebook, and

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it wasn't well communicated, I had to

really drag this explanation out of him.

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He posted a photo to Facebook with no

commentary on it, of Just a black and

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white picture of a big Nazi rally.

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Yeah, it was, it was a Goebbels

speech, a Goebbels speech.

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I don't know how you pronounce it.

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Yeah, Goebbels, I think.

311

Yeah and he, I was like, I asked him

like, why, why did you post this?

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And, and he told me, it's, he, he

couched it as like, kind of like

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a warning, he, he sees He sees our

current situation as being, like,

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very similar to the transition between

the Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany.

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Basically, yeah, American decadence

is similar to the decadence they found

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in Germany between the wars, where

elites were living it up while Working

317

people suffered and that's what led,

so he's, it was an anti, well it was an

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uncommunicated, but Theoretically anti

nazi message he was trying to convey,

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at least according to him, right?

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But this is what he's saying to a reporter

that he knows is recording his call

321

What he posted on his facebook was just

a straight up picture of a nazi rally

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After making a lot of racist comments,

so I don't want to give this guy too

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much credit When I saw it, I was like, I

actually texted some people, this guy that

324

I'm looking into, like, I was just like,

he's posted Nazi stuff to his Facebook.

325

Yeah, I mean we assumed he

was, it was a positive post.

326

Yeah.

327

Yeah, and according to him, like

if we're taking his, his story at

328

face value that's not what it is.

329

He, and I, and I asked him like,

you think Hitler is bad, right?

330

And he said yes.

331

Just like having to ask that

question was really interesting.

332

Right.

333

But he did, he did have this like pretty,

you know, whether he agrees with, whether

334

he's, whether he agrees with Nazism or

not, you know, he did, he did have this

335

analysis that was really well thought

out and, you know, and it, and it's

336

that, that idea of decadence leading

to, leading into authoritarianism.

337

Right.

338

And And so I asked him why, you know,

why, like, like if that's the case,

339

if this is analogous to our current

situation, why would you vote for Trump?

340

Right.

341

And he, you know, he said he gave

like kind of a banal answer to that.

342

It was just like lesser of two evils.

343

Right.

344

Which wasn't, I didn't find it entirely

convincing and I didn't think he

345

had really thought it out very well.

346

But yeah, it was a, it was, it was a,

it was a fascinating little turn in my

347

reporting that like, I, I'm not sure

where it's going to lead me, but and I'm

348

not going to write about it right now,

but yeah, yeah, fascinating conversation.

349

We're going to go to a break

here in a second and then get

350

on with the news of the city.

351

But I mean, it, it's sort of also

the last thought I have on this is a

352

testament of like, you think you're

writing one story and then you.

353

You might be writing another one.

354

I mean, the conversation we were

having when, when we were coming up

355

with the story is like, okay, cool.

356

Well, I mean, neo Nazis, you know,

North Idaho based neo Nazis walking

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around skinheads, suspenders,

beating people up at punk shows.

358

It's like, that was a feature of my,

my like, adolescence and adulthood,

359

like Nazis would come from North Idaho

to Spokane to recruit at punk shows.

360

Like that, I saw people

get beat up in high school.

361

That seems almost quaint now, given the,

the, the way that the far right is moving

362

from sort of, say, white nationalism to

more of a Christian nationalism narrative.

363

And if you take them at face value, it's

because it's not about overt racism, or

364

it's just, you know, if you're, if you

take the critique of them seriously, it's

365

about because they're concealing the sort

of subtle racism of, of that movement.

366

And so momentarily it almost, I

almost thought we were going to

367

be writing a story that put me

368

But it ended up being a little

bit more complex than that.

369

And also maybe, because the idea was

like, well, has anti Asian hate in

370

an organized way come to Spokane?

371

Which would be, you know, troubling

and something we would cover a lot.

372

It's hard to know because

these movements are so diffuse.

373

And in some ways it's not unlike

the conversation that we're having

374

nationally about ISIS and like, you

know, the truck bombings, or the trucks

375

driving through people in New Orleans.

376

Like, the whole thing about, you

know, Isis's new transformation is

377

that they just sort of put the vibe

out there and anybody who wants to

378

sort of carry their torch can we find

ourselves in a similar moment here where

379

It may not be Organized but it

also that doesn't make it any less

380

troubling for the people who are on

the receiving end of it It's it's the

381

it's the supercharging of the meme it

can travel Much faster now, and wider.

382

And if you don't have to have an

organized structure like that, it

383

just gets carried in the ether.

384

There's nobody to blame, there's

no hierarchy to tear apart.

385

I mean, I still remember when

the Aryan nation was sued

386

into oblivion for tax reasons.

387

And that's how they

ended up falling apart.

388

On the one hand, it's comforting that

there isn't, like, a big compound in

389

Hayden anymore, where it's like the

nexus of that sort of thought and

390

action, but in some ways it's scarier

because it's just sort of, it lives,

391

you know, in the air, and we don't

know where it's going to pop up next.

392

That's right.

393

Alright, we're going to go to a break and

talk about, well, I mean, it won't be too

394

much lighter, but a little bit lighter.

395

All right, we're back.

396

Okay, Sellers, you're working on a

number of things, including a follow

397

up to the Planned Parenthood story

and we don't want to scoop ourselves

398

on that too much, but I did want to

let listeners know what's coming.

399

You maybe did want to chat

about it a little bit, or no.

400

You want to leave it off completely?

401

Ugh, I'm so torn, but maybe we

just save that for next week.

402

Okay, cool.

403

Yeah, we're we're sort of winging

it, and it's important enough on that

404

one that we don't want to, we don't

want to Nobody else seems to care

405

that much about labor, so I'm not

terribly worried about another reporter

406

scooping me, but On the off chance.

407

You know, I think we, we do want

to be, you're right, there's not a

408

lot of labor reporting in Spokane.

409

I do think people cared

about that story though.

410

So I'm excited.

411

It also landed around the holidays.

412

So I think it's I think our follow ups

will be, It's definitely in the ether.

413

We're getting a lot of feedback about it.

414

But you're right that there's

not a lot of organized labor

415

reporting in this town anymore.

416

And there used to be.

417

But what else have you been working on?

418

Well, in the last hour, I have been

sort of Passively doing some self

419

interested reporting around the

bike boxes outside City Council.

420

I was thinking about this summer when I

was writing about Safe Street, Spokane.

421

There was sort of a rash of deaths

of pedestrians or bicyclists

422

in collisions with cars.

423

And there was a lot of calls for ways

to make our streets safer and ways to

424

do that in a cost effective manner.

425

And I remember this very warm press

release I went to that Lisa Brown biked

426

to, and a couple of the other city

council members did, and they were

427

talking about like, Ah, these new bike

boxes, these bike lockers are getting

428

delivered to City Hall, and they'll be,

they'll encourage everybody to bike,

429

it'll be great, more secure, safer.

430

People's bikes won't get stolen as often.

431

People's bikes won't get stolen as often.

432

I recently got an e bike for

Christmas, and I want to bike to

433

city council meetings on Monday.

434

But the boxes are all locked, and our

columnist at Range, Lauren Pangborn,

435

had the same thought as I did.

436

Can I bike to a city council meeting?

437

And, yeah.

438

When she showed up, she said she

went to the front desk to ask, like,

439

for a key for one of the locks on

it to put her bike in, and they had

440

no idea what she was talking about.

441

So she wasn't able to

get her bike in the box.

442

She had to roll her bike down

into the elevator, and they just

443

kept it with her, like, right

outside the city council chambers.

444

Which I don't know, I don't think

that's the option I want to take.

445

Right.

446

But now I'm asking around

to see like, Hey, we've got

447

these great new bike lockers.

448

Are they actually available

for people to use?

449

Right.

450

Is there some kind of miscommunication?

451

Yeah.

452

I want to put my bike in a box.

453

And if these are just for city employees,

why did we do a press conference about it?

454

It seems like, is it, I mean, we're

signaling that we need, and I've, you

455

know, I've recently started riding a bike

more often most of the last year, and

456

I'm parking the Parking and locking bikes

is like the single biggest impediment.

457

It's like actually easier to ride a

bike around downtown than it is to

458

drive a car, you know, theoretically.

459

It's much faster, theoretically, to park.

460

If there is infrastructure

for it, but there's often not.

461

I also want some kind of app that tells

you where are, like, the hoops, or the

462

things that you can lock your bike to.

463

Like, where are the places that you

can actually park and lock a bike.

464

I do think somebody created a Google map.

465

I should try to dig up that link.

466

You should, that would be cool.

467

We could make that public on range

for any other bikers out there.

468

In less self interested reporting news,

I've been tracking some developments

469

when it comes to homelessness sheltering.

470

Just for, sorry, one second, because

we're talking about alternative

471

modes of transportation here.

472

Aaron Hedge is a semi fanatical, I

mean, single handedly trying to bring

473

back rollerblading, I would say.

474

Yeah.

475

Yeah.

476

Do you ever commute on your Blades?

477

And if so, how do you secure them

when you get to your destination?

478

Cause I haven't seen you

rolling around the office.

479

This is a really, this is

a really good question.

480

I'm also putting Aaron on the spot here.

481

I cannot I can't commute,

I can't commute to work.

482

On my blades.

483

You live pretty high up the South

Hill, and there are some, there are

484

some legitimate personal safety issues

with trying to commute down the South

485

Hill on blades, I would imagine.

486

I've bombed some of those hills, not,

not the really scary ones, but the even,

487

even the more, the milder ones are a

little worrisome around some of the

488

curves on, like, maybe, like, southeast

or, you know, but Grove, Hamilton,

489

or yeah, Bernard would be murder.

490

Oh yeah, no, no, I, I that's,

that's a Death Wish Hill.

491

But, to answer your question, as a, Self

described, self described soul skater.

492

And the movement is not just me.

493

It's, it's, it's happening just

for people out there wondering.

494

It's underground.

495

Yeah.

496

Yeah.

497

Yeah.

498

It's not just me.

499

It exists whether you see it or not.

500

To answer your question, the way, so

my, my, my blades have, which are broken

501

right now, they have just loops and

I, and I carry them on the loops and

502

I put them Right next to my backpack.

503

Wow, that's wonderful.

504

Alright, sorry Sellers.

505

I agree.

506

Moving on to serious news, I just

wanted to know how, how Spokane's

507

rollerblading ambassador gets around.

508

We need to be assimilated into the,

into the Sustainable transit universe.

509

I was gonna say, I mean, current co

CEO, interim co CEO Carl Otterstrom

510

always talked about Spokane Transit

Authority as being, like, extending

511

the range of the pedestrian.

512

That's one of the things

he used to say a lot.

513

So you could, you know, get to those

death hills, hop on the bus just long

514

enough to get down the hills, then

slide right back off on your blades.

515

Get some Rollerblades, folks.

516

We're gonna report back on that.

517

You can't tell people

to do that on the radio.

518

Not for FCC reasons, but

just for cultural reasons.

519

Just joking.

520

Actually, both.

521

Alright, but on Serious News,

what are you working on, Saj?

522

Serious News, there's been the opening

of a brand new shelter earlier this

523

year, the city announced, well I guess

not earlier this year, you can't really

524

get earlier in the year late last year.

525

Yeah.

526

The city announced that they were

closing down the Trent Shelter, which

527

is a big ol warehouse out on Trent Ave.

528

And which is now closed.

529

Is now closed.

530

Does not exist.

531

The city has bought its

way out of the lease.

532

We are not paying Larry Stone money.

533

Hang out in a warehouse with

no running water, right?

534

Sorry, there is running water, but

only available to the employee.

535

It's all of the unhoused people

that we're accessing services.

536

There had to use porta potties and

showers that were not able to be

537

accessed by people with disabilities.

538

So that closed down.

539

This is a sort of controversial

decision in some ways because

540

a lot of folks in homelessness

services really disliked the model.

541

They thought that it was inhumane.

542

They thought it was unsafe.

543

And a lot of unhoused

people just refused to go.

544

This is true.

545

There was like multiple

outbreaks of illnesses out there.

546

It was pretty bad.

547

But it closed down and the city

did not have a clear replacement

548

plan already functioning They

had like a concept of a plan.

549

They were like we are going to shift

to a scatter site model We found an

550

operator who was going to run these

scatter sites and what scatter site is

551

is a smaller shelter almost one that

hypothetically would be able to be

552

absorbed in any given neighborhood without

a negative impact to that neighborhood.

553

They're saying like, let's spread

services out all over the city, and it

554

allows you to get really hyper specific.

555

So part of the goal was to break it

down by populations, because different

556

populations have different needs.

557

So there could be like a small shelter,

like 30 beds, where folks who had, you

558

know, Disabilities could be served.

559

You could cater the services to

folks with disabilities, make

560

sure everything was accessible.

561

You could schedule out service

providers or like doctors, street

562

medicine teams to come in that were

like prepared to serve that population.

563

You could do one that was

just for veterans and then

564

you could have folks from VOA.

565

Come in and, like, get people, you

know, get their paperwork up to date.

566

Basically, the idea was that it would

allow the city to more effectively

567

address individualized needs.

568

Right.

569

And more effectively use resources.

570

Great idea.

571

It's worked pretty well in some cities.

572

And the scatter in the scatter site is

they're just geographically spread out.

573

Like, one of them's in northwest Spokane.

574

There's, you know, they're all over

the place, usually in in faith based

575

situa like, the basements of churches.

576

That's kind of been the thing.

577

However, this wasn't up and off the

ground at the time that track the Trent

578

Center close, which was October 31st.

579

There was a couple scatter site shelters,

I think like between 30 and 60 beds, I

580

want to say, but that did not replace the

250 bed situation at the Trent shelter.

581

So folks that had criticized Trent

for being inhumane also criticized

582

this move away from it without a

clear replacement as being inhumane.

583

And there's a lot of, you know, there

was, there was a lot of push pull there.

584

It's, it's pretty complex.

585

But some good news is that a new

scatter site shelter has come online.

586

It's a medical respite bed shelter.

587

So everybody, there's 30 beds

total and it's in the upstairs

588

of a church in district two.

589

So just barely outside of

downtown, but like a stone's throw.

590

You can see downtown from the shelter.

591

And I went and toured it last, last week.

592

It was really, really nice.

593

There's.

594

rooms with beds set up.

595

One of the volunteers was like dragging

all of the people who were touring

596

to come sit on the beds because she

was like, look, they're memory foam.

597

They're so comfortable.

598

And they were, they were,

I sat on one of the beds.

599

But the idea here is that everybody

who accesses the shelter is referred

600

by Providence or by a hospital.

601

And even if a hospital refers them,

they have to then go through Providence.

602

So it's kind of just making sure

that everybody who goes there has

603

clear medical needs and has sort of

streamlining that communication so you'd

604

know what a person's medical need was.

605

Yeah.

606

Then, Doctors can come in

and treat patients here.

607

Folks can rest.

608

Sometimes, you know, you've got something

that really you just need to sleep it

609

off, but you're not gonna be able to do

that if you're living on the streets.

610

Hope House, which is also now in

danger of closing down, has a small

611

number of medical respite beds, and

the reason, and they have, I don't know

612

if they still are, but when they were

originally built, it was, they got a

613

little money from the local hospitals

because you need medical respite beds

614

because unhoused people are really high

utilizers of emergency emergency rooms.

615

And so if all you're doing, or if what

you need, you know, people do have legit

616

medical needs, but sometimes, like you're

saying, they do just need to sleep it off.

617

And so transferring them to a medical

respite bed is also a way to kind

618

of clear out the emergency rooms.

619

Yeah.

620

There has been a little bit

of controversy around this.

621

The, the shelter is in the

Westminster Baptist Church Sorry a.

622

A quick note here on the radio.

623

I said, Westminster Baptist.

624

It's actually Westminster

United church of Christ.,

625

Quick correction as you're

listening to the pod.

626

Thank you.

627

which is right next to Lewis and

Clark High School, which some folks

628

have concerns about but part of the

vetting process that goes into being

629

referred to the shelter is making

sure that nobody who is using the

630

shelter is a registered sex offender.

631

Right.

632

And also there's no outside loitering

space or like hangout space.

633

space.

634

Folks are pretty much

cordoned to the church.

635

They're in that upstairs place,

the upstairs floor for treatment.

636

And then I think if they want to

hang out, there's like, there's a

637

basement in that church and there's

like the actual church areas itself,

638

the property line of Westminster.

639

So it's across the street from Lewis

and Clark high school, literally across

640

the street, literally across the street.

641

And, but it's like, It takes up the entire

lot, so it's like you could, you're on

642

the sidewalk, there's, the, the church

basically goes to almost the sidewalk, so

643

it's not like they would be hanging out

in a, in a yard or a green space, yeah.

644

Yeah, and besides the concerns

about the school, there was also

645

this question of transparency.

646

I mean, I didn't know that the shelter

was opening until we got a media release

647

and I'm, like, pretty up to date on

everything that's going on with this.

648

And so neighbors in that area also

really had no idea that the shelter

649

was opening prior to opening.

650

And it sort of opened this philosophical

debate and political debate in some cases.

651

And when you say neighbors, these are

businesses mostly, because there isn't a

652

lot of residential over there, is there?

653

There is some houses, there is

a, like, Small amount of housing.

654

A small amount of houses.

655

It's it's in the Cliff

Cannon neighborhood.

656

At the very base of Cliff Cannon.

657

I mean, by city lines, it is at the

base of Cliff Cannon, and so it's, it's

658

a partnership between Empire Health

Foundation, which is the, like, contractor

659

for all scatter sites, and then they do

subcontracts out with the scatter sites.

660

Jules Helping Hands is the sort of

facilitator inside, the operator in

661

partnership with Providence, who is

handling, like, all of the medical stuff.

662

And Westminster, obviously.

663

The thing about this that I found the

coolest, the Westminster Baptist Church

664

reached out to Empire Health Foundation

and the city, and was like, as a faith

665

based group, Faith based community.

666

We want a shelter.

667

We believe in this.

668

We want to walk the walk or walk the talk.

669

And the congregation of, I want to

say between 200 and 300, unanimously

670

voted in support of bringing

the medical respite shelter in.

671

So the congregation is

extremely supportive of it.

672

I talked to a gal there who is

a member of the congregation.

673

She was really excited about it.

674

She just said, you know, like

this is what Jesus was about.

675

We want to help people.

676

We want to open our doors.

677

Like the point of a

church is to serve people.

678

And if we can do that, we want to.

679

But there's been a lot of push,

pull and argument, both from the

680

dais at city council and on certain

conservative email listservs about.

681

You know, Oh, we're hiding

it from the citizens.

682

The citizens didn't know.

683

They couldn't, and EHF did come to a

neighborhood council and offered a present

684

on it before the opening of the shelter.

685

The neighborhood council did not take them

up on that because they said that their

686

docket was too full for that meeting.

687

They came anyways to answer questions

if the neighborhood council had them.

688

So there were some efforts to engage

and they connected with the school too.

689

But.

690

Zeke Smith, the executive director

of EHF, told me and a reporter from

691

The Spokesman in a joint interview

that, like, part of the reason for not

692

publicizing it was that they didn't

want coordinated backlash against it.

693

And I, So the reason I was expressing

skepticism about whether this is downtown

694

or whether it's in Cliff Cannon, I like,

I live in Cliff Cannon, it is a, one of

695

the bougiest neighborhoods, I'm not, I

was, I bought my house at a time when,

696

But it's like, I live several blocks away

from mansions, I don't live in a mansion

697

myself, I live in what used to be it's a

duplex effectively a townhouse You would

698

have to hike up one of those hills that

would kill Hedge to Rollerblade down

699

to get within, you know, a quarter mile

of any What I would consider a quote

700

unquote neighborhood there is a small

amount of multifamily housing Lower down

701

the hill, but it's mostly businesses.

702

It's mostly medical practices There's

some churches over there and there may

703

be one or two small older multifamily

apartment buildings But it's it's really

704

in a commercial center Westminster

baptist is Really, you know, commercial

705

space more than more than a neighborhood,

in my opinion anyways, as a guy who's

706

lived there for like almost 15 years.

707

Yeah, there's just in the, at

the government level, there's a

708

lot of debate over how to equally

spread services across the city.

709

So no one neighborhood or one

district is getting burdened by

710

the potential negative impacts that

may come along with the shelter.

711

And again, this is a

medical respite shelter.

712

So I, I.

713

The negative impacts that you

sometimes see around shelters, I feel

714

like are already kind of mitigated

by the nature of this shelter.

715

Some of the folks literally are

like, confined to their beds.

716

Yeah.

717

It's not for emergency health care,

but it's also not people who are

718

gonna be running wind sprints up

a hill anytime soon, necessarily.

719

Right.

720

And so there's been this, big

debate around shelters and other

721

service providers kind of being

clustered in District One, which is

722

the poorest district in the city.

723

It stretches up north and

makes up most of downtown.

724

And so the point that politicians

were making was like, this isn't in

725

District One, this technically isn't

in downtown, even though it's like,

726

it is one block into District Two.

727

And I mean, they are right that that

is where the district line falls.

728

Thank you.

729

It's just been an interesting

conversation to follow.

730

I have so many mixed feelings about it.

731

I mean I think about Catalyst, Shelter,

and the insane amount of pushback to that

732

from NIMBYs and this sort of question of

where do we put shelters and the answer

733

always seems to be well not near me.

734

Yeah and I think that's my larger point

because it's like you're right that it's,

735

to me it feels more like downtown than

it feels like Cliff Cannon just because

736

of You know where the actual residential

part of Cliff Cannon is And to your

737

point, it was an attempt to get it out.

738

It's it's It is close to

downtown, but again, that is

739

literally on my commute to work.

740

I either drive or walk past Westminster

every time I come into the office.

741

And there is also not a lot, part of

the problem, part of the reason for

742

scatter sites in general is like,

the second and division area where

743

so many unhoused services and, Spaces

have been is like that's where every

744

then where unhoused people hang out.

745

So the idea is we got to

get them out of that area.

746

They did a pretty good job or anyone.

747

It was awesome that you know that

the congregation opened its doors

748

to this community because that is

not where I have, you know, mostly I

749

mostly walk to work and and I've seen

a lot of concentrations of people

750

that's never been in that area.

751

And so it's like, it almost like it

feels like they, the city did its best

752

to take the feedback from the NIMBYs who

were like, don't put it in the middle

753

of my neighborhood and, and also like

keep it away from where the other, you

754

know, on where the other shelters are.

755

It feels like kind of a sweet spot.

756

And, but.

757

There was still the concern that people

were gonna get mad anyways, I guess.

758

Yeah.

759

I still think it's, it's, regardless

of where you fall in that debate

760

of, do we trust people to understand

that this isn't gonna negatively

761

impact them and throw a fit?

762

Do, where do we value

transparency and just dealing

763

with the consequences of that?

764

Cause I do think there is an

argument to be made for government

765

transparency and accountability.

766

Right.

767

Either way, I think it's a piece of really

good news that we now have 30 dedicated

768

medical respite beds serving the most

vulnerable people in our community.

769

I'm putting you on the spot here,

do you know how many Scatter

770

site beds total we have now.

771

Are we close to replacing the

track, the original track number?

772

Well, okay.

773

I, I do, give me two seconds and

I can tell you I took screenshots

774

at a presentation given on

Monday that had these numbers.

775

We are not close to

replacing the 250 beds.

776

We are at

777

I also think engaging faith communities,

and Hedge, I'm sure you can have

778

something to say about this too,

it's like, it's smart because, you

779

know, regardless of what people Think

about things in their neighborhood.

780

People don't generally have a problem

with the churches in their neighborhood.

781

And so, you know, engaging with faith

communities in a, in a partnership, I

782

think is like, you know, Morningstar

Baptist is in Northwest Spokane.

783

It's like North of Audubon.

784

It's, you know, it is in this, like the

older, you know, mid century suburbs

785

of Spokane, but it is a neighborhood.

786

There's not a lot of commercial.

787

It's just a lot of, a lot of

fifties ranchers up there.

788

And I haven't heard a lot of.

789

community complaints about from

District 3 residents about the

790

scatter site at Morningstar.

791

Okay, I have the answer for you.

792

By February, Empire Health

Foundation says there will be 205

793

beds in the scatter site model.

794

That includes two shelters in

North Spokane for 60 adults.

795

However, those two shelters in North

Spokane for 60 adults, I think, One of

796

those, what's interesting about this

is like, it is a little bit of creative

797

accounting because some of these

beds did exist before track closed.

798

They're just now being funded

through this scatter site mod

799

and are being funded by the city.

800

So like, Jewel's Helping Hands prior

to the Trent Shelter closing had

801

operated between 2 and 4, 000 beds.

802

of those scatter sites,

depending on any given time.

803

Some of those are now funded by this

Empire Health Foundation subcontract out,

804

so they are considered in the scatter

site network, but it doesn't necessarily

805

represent An actual increase in beds.

806

An actual increase in beds

across the whole city.

807

Yeah.

808

But we have two shelters in North Spokane

for 60 adults run by Jules Helping Hands.

809

We have one medical respite site in

Cliff Cannon for medically fragile folks.

810

And that's the Jules Helping Hands

Providence Westminster Partnership.

811

One shelter in East Central for 50

adult men run by Truth Ministries.

812

And then there's two that are

in the process of opening that

813

they're like estimating will

be open by the end of February.

814

That's a shelter in East

Central for 20 adults seeking

815

behavioral health treatment.

816

And an expansion of a shelter

in Chief Gary Park for families.

817

And that is, they still have 1.

818

3 million dollars left to spend on

shelter beds, so I think the hope

819

is that eventually that network

will get increased up to that

820

250 bed number, maybe even more.

821

But yeah, it's a complicated conversation.

822

I hope I didn't make too boring.

823

I also have bad news for bikers.

824

I just heard back from the

city spokesperson, Erin Hutt.

825

When I say I'm like actively reporting

on the bike boxes right now, I mean

826

like texting everybody I know to ask

what the deal with the bike boxes is.

827

And she said, They're currently going

through a pilot program with just

828

access for city employees, but the long

term plan is to open it to the public.

829

Our team is looking at a functional loan

system and has been in communication

830

with a company that manages an

app based lock program, but still

831

working through those logistics.

832

It's truthfully taking

longer than anticipated.

833

That makes sense, because

when I walked by there, I was

834

like, oh, those are the boxes.

835

That's really cool.

836

And it's just basically the

U locks, the bicycle locks,

837

like, shutting off the door.

838

I'm like, okay, so where are the keys?

839

Where would I get the keys?

840

It's clearly not for public

use yet, it seems like.

841

Yeah, and I get that.

842

I'm just bummed that they made such

a big deal about it at the press

843

conference and then like both Aaron

Hutt and Lisa Brown tweeted about it.

844

It's like, look at the new bike lockers.

845

Isn't this so exciting?

846

And now I can't use them.

847

I guess you can tweet about things.

848

You can tweet about pilot projects.

849

I would say you can even, you could

even hold press conferences about

850

pilot projects if you just really make

it clear that it's a pilot project.

851

I think people got their hopes up.

852

Yeah, I texted Lauren Pangburn,

our columnist, to tell her the same

853

thing and she said, That's a bummer.

854

Good ol government taking

ages to do anything at all.

855

Oh, burn.

856

But, Hutt says they're really trying

and she promises they're working on it.

857

And it's better than what we, or a pilot

program is more than we had this time

858

last year when I started trying to ride

a bike for the first time as an adult.

859

And, yeah.

860

Commuting around town, so that's good.

861

We only have a couple minutes left.

862

Do we want to talk about Shrek at

all, or we might not even have time?

863

Christ, that's even more

complicated than Yeah, that's true.

864

than shelter beds, so There's

complications with the city's contract

865

for Emergency communications that I think

would take far longer than five minutes

866

and we're gonna yeah, we'll talk about

this maybe more next week But long story

867

short, there's an there's a over like a

decade old fight between the city and the

868

county over emergency Dispatch for fire.

869

Yes, so when you call

911, who pays for that?

870

And who's managing those dispatchers?

871

Yeah, and it's looking like Spokane

just got kicked out of the, the city of

872

Spokane just got kicked out of the system.

873

And we're actively reporting on that.

874

Yeah it is very interesting

because the city's police officers

875

were not a part of that system.

876

So when you called 911 to talk about like,

oh, I need, I need police services within

877

the city of Spokane That was being handled

by different folks than if you called and

878

you were like, I need police services and

I'm in the county, like I'm up in Meade.

879

It's, yeah, I don't want

to get into it too much.

880

I've been getting press releases in my

inbox all day from every associated body.

881

Every, every governmental

body in the county.

882

So it's a lot to sort through that I fear.

883

We cannot do justice, but I promise

if you have questions about it, we

884

will do our best to answer them.

885

It's also really complicated because

it involves taxation, and taxation that

886

comes in to the county but is supposed

to be spread around to the other various

887

municipalities and stuff, or on be

It's, it's stuff that can be done.

888

It's taxes that are taken from

various city residents to the county,

889

and then for a county wide system.

890

But whether or not that's equitable or not

so even understanding it's complicated.

891

And then, before you even get to

the conversation around is Spokane

892

paying too much, is the city of

Spokane paying too much for the

893

level of service it's getting?

894

Right.

895

And are they getting enough representation

on the decision making board?

896

I guess one question, and maybe you don't

know this and that's okay, but with like

897

the minute that we have left, if they just

got kicked out, does that mean that if we

898

call, if there's a fire in Spokane and we

call 9 1 1, where does it go right now?

899

Right now, it goes to Shrek.

900

Okay, so it's still, it's not like

If kicking out is like, you cannot,

901

you can't play with our toys anymore.

902

Okay.

903

But because this is such a

dire thing with people's lives.

904

You can play with our toys until January

905

really, really taking them away from you.

906

So this is, we're kicking

you out a year in the future.

907

Yeah.

908

Negotiations, done.

909

No more talking about this.

910

We're not negotiating.

911

They have been negotiating back and forth,

almost since Lisa Brown took office.

912

Well, and they were negotiating about this

during the Woodward administration, too.

913

They were, they We have some questions

about how to do fair appropriations of

914

this tax that was collected that even

Woodward and the county couldn't agree on.

915

And Michael Cathcart is also, who's

a, the conservative city council

916

member is also a critic of Shrek.

917

So it's, this is not a partisan fight

with the conservative county and the

918

progressive It's more city versus county.

919

Yeah.

920

Yeah.

921

But not along partisan lines.

922

Yeah.

923

All right.

924

Well, that is 3.

925

55.

926

That brings us to the close of our show.

927

It just goes by so fast, doesn't it?

928

It really does.

929

All right.

930

So.

931

We've got a show coming up right

after us, and I have to drive to

932

a celebration of the fact that I'm

heading up to Sandpoint right now to

933

celebrate the Sandpoint Reader, which

is the first writing gig I ever, the

934

first serious writing gig I ever had.

935

There is a newspaper that started

right before all the layoffs

936

began that is turning 20, so not

all meta journalism stories are

937

stories of failure and suffering.

938

So we will see you next week.

939

If you have questions about

local government or the news or

940

how any of that works, you can

email us at freerange at kyrs.

941

org and we will try and answer them.

942

Have a nice weekend everybody.

943

See you next week.

944

Bye.