Rachel Welty is a Nashville-based family and juvenile law attorney and the founder of Welty Law Office, where she has spent nearly 20 years doing things differently. Named to the Tennessee Mid-South Super Lawyers list and a Tennessee Rule 31 Listed Mediator, Rachel takes a child advocacy-centered approach to family law — because she genuinely believes that when kids' needs come first, parents do better too.

She works with clients navigating divorce, child custody, support, orders of protection, adoption, DCS involvement, and LGBTQIA+ family law issues, and she's known for bringing a trauma-informed lens to a legal system that often doesn't have one. She's also a single working mom, which means she brings both professional expertise and hard-won personal experience to everything she does.

This episode covers:

• (00:00) Tea & Crumpets — Val on The Telepathy Tapes, Rachel on the NHL playoffs and emotional men, Em on her poolside ADHD hack
• (05:00) The Lore — Rachel on military spouse life, her husband's deployment to Afghanistan, and what losing a house in divorce taught her about herself
• (08:30) The DSM — trauma-informed lawyering, what the legal process gets wrong, and how Rachel helps clients stay out of their fear brain
• (12:00) High-conflict vs. healthy divorce — what it costs kids, and what most family attorneys miss
• (16:00) The biggest misconception people bring into divorce court
• (20:00) Discernment counseling, mediation, and the couples who pause their divorce and come back changed
• (27:00) What LGBTQIA+ couples need to know right now to protect their legal rights
• (32:00) Why therapists and family attorneys should be talking to each other
• (34:00) "...but for REAL" - the mic drop moment
• (36:00) Now That's What I Call— OKAYYY! - music segment!
• (37:00) Dumpster Fire Phoenix — Dolly Parton wisdom and Em's birthday era
• (41:00) Rapid Fire Q&A

...but for REAL: Stay in the here and now. If you're in the middle of a divorce, a custody battle, or any kind of legal storm — the what-ifs will eat you alive. Empower yourself with information, find people you trust, and take it one step at a time.

Resources + Stuff Mentioned in This Episode

• Welty Law Office — Rachel's Nashville family and juvenile law practice
• The Telepathy Tapes — Val's Tea & Crumpets rec: the podcast about nonverbal autistic individuals and telepathic communication
• Discernment Counseling — the protocol Val references for couples where one partner is leaning out of the marriage
• Little Beautiful Things by Maggie Smith — Rachel's most-recommended book, a memoir about divorce and moving forward (note: confirm exact title before publishing — Rachel mentioned it as "Little Beautiful Things" but the published title is You Could Make This Place Beautiful)
• "Open Up Your Eyes" by Tonic — Rachel's song pick for Now That's What I Call— OKAYY!
• Answer Nashville — Rachel's go-to Nashville dinner spot
• Nashville Conflict Resolution Center — one of the nonprofits Rachel volunteers with

Connect with Rachel:

• Welty Law Office website
• Instagram: @weltylaw
• Facebook: Welty Law Office

Connect with Us:

• More about the pod / past episodes
• Watch us on YouTube
• Now That's What I Call... OKAAAAY Playlist
• Send us a story for The Lore segment
• Send in a request for advice for our Step Into My Office segment
• Connect with us on IG: @butforrealpod
• The Gaia Center on IG: @thegaiacenter
• Val on IG: @existentiallyval
• The Gaia Center website: www.gaiacenter.co

DISCLAIMER: But For Real Podcast is not a substitute for individualized mental health treatment or healthcare. This podcast is solely for entertainment and educational purposes. If you are in crisis, please utilize crisis support services, such as the Crisis Text Line (Text START to 741741 in the US) or the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: (Call 988 in the US), or visit www.findahelpline.com for international resources.

Welcome to But For Real, a variety show podcast co hosted by two therapists who also happen to be loudmouth feminists.

I'm Valerie, your resident elder millennial child free cat lady.

And I'm Emerson, your resident chronically online Gen Z brat.

And on the show, we'll serve up a new episode every other week that will take you on a wild ride through the cultural zeitgeist, mental health and beyond.

You'll definitely laugh and TBH sometimes, maybe cry a little, because this is a silly and serious show.

Buckle up, my friends, and let's get into today's episode.

Yay, we're back.

Good morning.

It is the morning.

Okay, so today we have attorney Rachel Welty.

She concentrates her practice in the areas of Tennessee family law and juvenile law, including divorce, child custody support, orders of protection, terminations of parental rights, and adoption.

Kind of sounds like you do everything.

Dependency, neglect issues, including cases involving the Department of Children's Services and cases involving members of the LGBTQIA plus communities, which.

This is Pride month at the time of recording, so a very important conversation.

Rachel, we're so excited to talk with you today about your work as a family lawyer here in Nashville.

And just to have you explain to us some of the legalese, to us, like, we're five, because we are, so we can all better understand important things like how LGBTQIA families can best protect their legal rights in the court system and probably so much more.

So welcome to Butt For Real.

Thank you for having me.

I'm so excited to be here.

Yeah.

So we kick things off with a segment called Tea and Crumpets, where we tell our listeners what we cannot shut up about recently and.

Oh, my God.

So I went to the Smoky Mountains over the weekend, and on the way there and the way back, we started binging the telepathy tapes.

Have either of y' all listened to this?

I've heard of it, but I've not gone there, so saw me on it.

Oh, my God.

So I'm like, two years late to the party.

Season one started two years ago, and now they're, I think, just wrapped up.

Season two, maybe.

The first season is ten episodes of kind of a full narrative documentary arc, but then followed by like, 20 episodes of sort of, like, little bits of conversation.

But even just that first ten that I've listened to so far, mind blowing.

It basically starts off with talking about how nonverbal autistic kids or people actually, they're in there, and they communicate telepathically.

And, like, the person hosting this is like, Total skeptic.

Vanderbilt educated.

Comes at it from this very scientific lens, like kind of stumbled into this world and then was like, oh, these people need their stories to be told.

I mean, I am a true skeptic and.

But it's like my worldview has just been up and down.

Amazing.

So highly recommend.

And it is like a podcast.

It's a podcast.

Yep.

10 Episodes.

I need to get in there.

I know.

I can't believe it took me so long.

Okay, Rachel, what's your tea?

Yeah.

So I'm a huge hockey fan.

Nice.

Love the Nashville Predators.

I have a kiddo who plays and I just started playing, which is super fun.

So at the ripe old age of 45.

So I am loving what happened with the Stanley cup playoffs and the Carolina Hurricanes wonder.

So if it couldn't be the Preds, I'll take a different team.

That's not Vegas.

And so many amazing examples of some positive masculinity.

Right.

Occurring after that.

Just cheering for one another.

Lots of tears from the men.

Talking about their emotions, talking about how they're feeling.

And I think finally being able to see some of these things out in the community is amazing.

Sending it to my 14 year old all the time.

I'm sharing all the clips.

I'm always all about raising a better generation of men who can maybe be a little bit more emotionally intelligent, talk about their feelings in hopes that we can do better in this world.

And I feel like we all collectively needed that after the locker room scene at the Olympics.

So yay.

Yay indeed.

Okay.

Mine has been.

And I feel like I'm Elle woods when she's like, studying for her sat.

I'm not in the pool.

I am.

I do prop the laptop pool side.

But I feel like it's been the funniest ADHD hack ever.

I'm like, okay.

Like, I'm just gonna go for like an hour or two.

And I just like, I did this notes.

I did this outline yesterday.

I was like, thanks, Rachel.

And I was like doing the outline.

Like I'm doing emails and doing whatever.

So I think it's just like the ADHD hack of switching up your environment.

Like, it's just like so tried and true and I forget it all the time and go outside and the sunlight, like, please just be outside.

I'm in the water.

That's fun.

So take your work outside if you can be like by water.

Because in Tennessee, wow.

Just.

It's real hot.

You can survive.

I feel really sweet.

Photo of my office.

Everyone in my office in my Pool last week.

All on the laptops.

Yes.

Working.

So we did that.

Oh, my God, I love.

Why are we gonna be inside?

No, let's take it outside.

Oh, my gosh.

Okay, let's hop on over to a bit of the lore where we usually take a listener submitted story and we kind of just delve into it or one of our own.

But Rachel contributed to the lore today.

So, Rachel, you just threw down like your divorce story in general and some experience being a military spouse.

And the other thing that I plucked out from your form submission was perseverance and doing your personal work and how that tied into all of that.

So whatever you feel cool with sharing about some of your Rachel lore, go ahead and lead us through.

So I had never been around the military before, and when I got married, I was like, oh, shouldn't have the military be the reason I don't get married?

Right.

So hop into it.

And about, gosh, a year after we got married, found out my husband was going to deploy to Afghanistan.

He's a helicopter pilot and literally spent six months on the floor being like, how do you deal with this?

Just constantly upset, all of that.

He deploys and you move on.

Right.

You have to live every day.

And so I always say it's my greatest trauma response because you just have to compartmentalize that because you can't think about the what if of getting a knock on the door every single day.

And so that's helped me so much with my work with my clients because so many of them go to the what if.

What's going to happen with my kids?

What about that first time my one year old goes and spends the night with their dad and I haven't ever been away from them.

And so really it's helped me to not stress about much of anything, which again, kind of a trauma response, but.

Really fight for what I'm dad I could survive.

Exactly.

But also like needing to stay in the here and now.

And so I literally spent, I mean, my oldest is almost 15.

Literally spent 15 years parenting by myself because it was just constant deployments and not great for a marriage, but gained all the perspective as a divorce person.

And one thing I realized is there's things in our lives that represent other things.

Right.

And so when I got divorced, there was a house that I had built, pretty much built when my husband was deployed, had redone here in Nashville.

And it was like our constant.

And I don't Think I really understood that.

And I had to let it go when I got divorced and I was not okay.

Not okay.

And I would cry whenever I would go into old houses.

And I got the gift of being sent to kind of like a wellness mental health retreat center for my sister.

Thank you, sister.

And realized that house represented, like, the constant that I didn't have.

Being a military spouse and never knowing what was going to happen and where he was going to be.

And.

And so it's amazing once you can do your work and figure those things out and free yourself from those things.

So I really try to help my clients do that.

And so, again, that's really helpful in divorce.

What are we doing right now?

What is your life like right now?

What do we know?

And not going into this, like, what if this happens?

What if this happens?

What if this happens?

Because that's not typically helpful.

Wow.

And understanding, like, when there are those deep attachments or deep grief over even aspects of it that we think, like, why am I upset about this piece?

Like, understanding.

Obviously there's more to the story there.

So kind of moving into our DSM segment.

And in this dsm, all varieties of dysfunction, spiraling and meltdowns are welcome.

So today we are obviously talking with Rachel about her experiences as a family attorney, how she seeks to advocate for children as part of your work.

And I know one thing that's really important to you, which is so clear from your own story, is helping your clients to try to stay in that space of empowerment instead of getting stuck and paralyzed in fear.

So I imagine that's a very challenging part of your role in that, and tell us a little bit about what that actually looks like in practice.

Yeah.

So I always say we give a lot more than legal advice.

Right.

I think the legal process is not a positive process for people.

It can be re.

Traumatizing, can be really cold.

And so really helping clients realize that by putting boundaries in place, appropriate communication, how their behaviors can negatively impact their children, really, I think that helps the clients focus on the bigger picture.

And it's really important for us to try to get our clients to connect with, like, the dream.

Like the dream on the other side.

What do you want for yourself?

What do you want for yourself?

Children, Reminding them that I've been doing this for almost 20 years and not one person has regretted their divorce.

Right.

My favorite thing about working with divorce clients, especially women, is they come to me in one state normally from a very dysfunctional relationship, sometimes abuse, and they turn into these amazing butterflies, like, just different versions of themselves on the other side.

And it's really beautiful and it's so fun to be guided, help guide them and really just helping them like feel heard.

Yeah, we, I.

It's really important for me that my staff and I have trauma informed practices and we really try to get out there about trauma informed lawyering.

And everybody should be doing better by these clients.

And they present in a way to us that if you're an attorney, you don't understand.

Like, why are they asking the same question five times?

Right.

Well, they're not hearing us.

Right.

They're in their fear space.

They're not hearing us.

You have to write out what you just told them or send a loom video explaining yourself so they can go back and watch it.

And so, yeah, so that's what we try to do at the practice and obviously being child focused the whole time because really that's the whole point.

Right.

Because if parents can divorce better, the children are going to do better with that.

So.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I feel like so much goes into it.

Even hearing you explaining all of that makes me feel like, well, in so many ways that's what our role as a therapist is like.

Right.

Like I often say to some of my clients, like, sometimes you feel like a mother hen.

Mind you, most of my clients are all older than me and I'm like my pa, Like, I'm like that.

My little chicks, when they're like out in the world or applying skill or they go and nail something that they've been talking about for so long, like just like seeing people making that change is really special to be a part of in any kind of way to witness that.

So I really think it's cool that our professions, even though they seem really different, are people oriented at the end of the day.

So it's all the same stuff.

But speaking with the children piece, after working with so many families through separation divorce, what have you learned and.

Or what do you want people to know about the difference between a healthy or neutral divorce and a high conflict divorce, especially with the kids and what that looks like for children.

Yeah.

So I think the one thing that's really difficult to deal with and I'm constantly banging my head up against the wall about the family law system and is that if there were inappropriate, negative things that happened during a marriage, abuse, those sorts of things, it doesn't always matter.

And I always tell my clients it matters to me, but just because someone was a really terrible spouse and awful to you or verbally abusive or those sorts of Things the court doesn't necessarily then equate that to them being a bad parent.

And so having to like hold and support our clients truths of what happened to them and saying that's not okay.

But.

But we have to find a way to then be able to partner in parenting in some sort of way.

I don't need you to be best friends with your ex spouse, but I do need you to not speak negatively about them in front of the children.

I always say keep your ex's name out of your mouth when you're talking to the, to the kids.

Right.

We don't want to even do something that is going to put off some judgment.

So if my kiddos come back from their dad and they're like oh we did so and so with dad and I'm like oh well that didn't sound like very much fun or oh, that doesn't like something I say that doesn't have anything to do with him.

But then put some sort of judgment in what they did is also negative.

Right.

That tells the kids that's negative.

And so where we clients do better and kiddos do better is if they can not let go of the stuff that happened to them, but put it in a place I can say that what you did to me was terrible and awful and never should have happened and I deserved better and our children deserved better.

It's kind of my story.

But it's better for the kids if they have two happy, healthy, supportive households.

And where we see kids really struggle is when they're in that constant whirlpool cycle of parental conflict with the right.

Triangulated and that, yeah, it can get so messy.

So this kind of connects, I feel like, to maybe some of the things you said a moment ago and also the idea of being trauma informed.

What do you think a lot of the family law attorneys miss or get wrong when it comes to advocating for and protecting kids?

Yeah.

So a lot of my colleagues and I say this all the time.

It's why I became a family law attorney are just creating conflict and that is not helpful to children.

And I was like this is terrible for families and children and this needs to be done differently.

And I do think we have some courts doing that a little bit or trying but really realizing that you making more money is bad for families.

Right.

Because the only people that win when there's a highly contested divorce for the attorneys.

Right.

Because they're making more money.

And as attorneys, we need to do better than that and say, like, we need to be helping these people figure out how to amicably separate so that it's better for the children.

And I've.

Some of my most contested cases have been because we need to protect children from something, but we have still been able to keep it so that they don't feel the negative impacts of the conflict.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's huge.

Yeah.

Okay.

Rachel, what are some of the biggest misconceptions people have about divorce before they begin the process?

And what do you wish more people understood from the start?

What's the kind of like common pitfalls?

So I think I, again, I represent a lot of women, a lot of mama bears, a lot of moms who are stay at home moms or were just the primary caregivers of children, did all the work, all the emotional labor.

Right.

Maybe their partner wasn't completely around emotionally or even physically.

And one of the biggest misconceptions is that is going to matter.

Right.

And unfortunately, it just doesn't.

So sometimes the clients are hearing for the first time from me in a consult, or potential clients that as soon as that divorce is fought, filed, you're on equal footing.

Yeah.

You could have a dad who's never changed a diaper or a mom who's never changed a diaper.

Right.

Put whichever gender you want in there.

A parent who's never changed a diaper, never been overnight with a child by themselves, and now they get a chance.

And that feels very unfair, jarring, I'm sure, to hear it.

Yeah.

And so that is something that I wish people understood beforehand and could, like, set their expectation better because I do think it's important for them to know.

The other thing that I think I always love to put out there is if you talk to a lot of children from divorce that are older now, adults.

Right.

And they had parents who stayed together right.

Until after high school.

And they're like, that was terrible.

Like, why did they do that?

So I always say I don't advocate for divorce, but sometimes it's necessary.

And I do believe that two happy, healthy households, parents.

Are better for children than one household in conflict.

Right.

Like sometimes society is like, we need a two parent household and we need this and this.

And I think there's this pressure to hold that together.

But, like, that can be really bad for kiddos if it's not a good environment.

They're seeing yelling and screaming and so,.

Yeah, I think most of the people that I have in my life that have had divorced parents or their parents split up and weren't together, I would probably say like 95 of them, which, this is rich for me because I can't do math.

But like, everyone echoes.

Like, I'm glad my parents split up.

Yeah, I'm glad I wasn't having to like, continue experiencing their conflict.

Like, I feel like majority of the time we do have that.

Well, we just need to stay together until they're older.

We just need to get through it.

And you can see the positive intent behind that.

You don't want to have this be such a large disruption, especially if you have like smaller kids or maybe not like high school age kids that are.

Like, smaller kids are great.

They don't know anything else.

No.

Right.

It's the older kids that's getting complicated.

But it can leave, like, really, I have clients and we like, do like family of origin work because there's been a nasty divorce or I watched my mom and dad fighting for however long.

And now I'm navigating how to be in a relationship because I've only ever been modeled conflict.

You know, like, there's just so many things to consider.

And I don't doubt that it's like a really hard thing you have to consider all the time to make that decision.

But yeah, it's interesting to think about.

Yeah.

It's funny because my views from my own personal experiences have kind of evolved over time.

I always would say I was a child of successful divorce and really my husband too.

And so we're very fortunate in that regard.

And I think in both cases, but especially mine, I was six or seven when it happened, so I wasn't really witnessing fighting.

Thank goodness they were kept things behind closed doors.

And I don't think there was a lot of high conflict, but it was more a case of like, just poor partner choice, one might say, which happens.

And then fast forward to like my own relationship and not fully understanding the evolution past deliverance phase of early relationship and what romance and sexuality and all of that evolve into.

And so I was worried like, oh my God, if I made a horrible decision.

Yeah.

And I think there's some unhelpful messaging out there.

Like, I appreciate what you said about I don't advocate for divorce, but sometimes it is the healthiest path forward.

Because I remember I read in this Cheryl Strayed book where she talked about her previous marriage and she was like, he was such a good man and all this.

And we didn't fight and all that, but something didn't feel right.

And if it doesn't feel right, just leave.

And I read that and I was like, sick to my stomach because I was, you know, I was like, oh, my God, maybe that's true.

So thank God we got into marriage counseling and sex therapy and all that, which is why I now love that work, because absolutely, this was a marriage worth fighting for.

So it's so interesting because we know there are so many people who stay in really toxic, unhealthy marriages.

But then I feel like in our hyper individualistic culture, then there's the people who are given this message of your individual satisfaction and your grocery list of like, everything I expect in a partnership is the most important thing.

Yes.

And so it's very confusing.

So are you familiar with discernment counseling?

Yes, I've heard about it.

Yeah.

So I got trained in that almost a couple years ago.

And I'm very passionate about it because just for listeners who aren't familiar, it is not couples therapy, but it is work done with a couple by someone who's completed this training, a therapist.

And, and it's a time contained protocol, so one to five sessions where a lot of the work is happening, one on one with each partner.

And we're really diving in to try to get this is four couples where one partner is leaning in, hoping to preserve the marriage.

The other is leaning out, but not fully decided on divorce.

And also not really willing to do couples therapy.

Because that's fair.

If you're like, listen, I don't know if I want to fix the issues.

I don't know if I even want to be in this.

Right, sure.

So that's a hard sell.

And sometimes if those couples do get into couples therapy, it's not very helpful.

So starting with this process of, let's get clear on how we got here, what each of your contributions are to those issues.

And then, yeah, I'm not trying to advocate for one path or the other.

I'm just trying to help them get that clarity.

So at the end of the day, whatever decision they make, they can feel like we left no stone unturned with this.

So that's something I love to do.

And I'm curious because I want to connect with more family attorneys, because not everyone does know about this.

Do you ever get couples who.

Or not couples?

I guess an individual who reaches out to you and is considering divorce, but they're not decided.

And how do you kind of work with that?

That happens a lot.

I Have a lot of people who I consult with, and I am all about educating them, educating them about the process, educating them about what they look like.

Because education is empowerment.

If you educate people, you take out the.

What if the.

I heard this person did this and this divorce went this way, and then they can decide for themselves what the rest of their life looks like.

And there are points in a marriage that are broken, right?

And maybe it leads to divorce, maybe it leads to therapy.

Maybe it leads to both parties need to be in their own individual therapy, and they need to evolve their relationship in a different way.

And so a lot of people will maybe come back.

I mean, I have people come back 12, 18 months later and end up getting divorced.

We filed a lot of divorces, and people either pause them and then decide to move forward, pause them and then dismiss them.

Come back to me and say, this was the best thing that ever happened to us.

Thank you.

Have other babies, reconnect and redo their marriage.

I wish more people.

I'm like, maybe more family law attorneys need to become counselors and do, like, premarital.

Right.

Like therapy.

Because, like, come talk to me about how not to get divorced.

Like, why.

Why are we spending less time planning our marriage than we are planning our wedding?

Why aren't we talking about how are we going to do budgeting and finances?

What's going to happen after we have the baby?

I see the parents of the 70s and 80s really hurt, these men, y', all, because, like, men can't figure out a lot of times what to do after they are not the center of their wife's attention with.

I mean, that's a. I could go.

All, all day, every day about what happened.

And, like, can we teach these men how to talk about their feelings?

Hey, I'm feeling neglected.

I'm feeling this way.

Can we talk about what it's all going to look like after we have a baby?

Like, why aren't couples doing this before they get married?

Right?

Seriously.

Because everyone wants a wedding that looks really awesome on Instagram.

There I said it to me.

And we do get some couples who reach out for premarital, but it is these small fraction compared to couples who are.

I think the Gottman say that on average, couples wait until they've been having problems for seven years before they reach out.

And it's like, are we trying to move furniture on the Titanic at this point?

Like, can we salvage this?

Life is short.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

We do make partner mistakes, right?

Like, I was 25 when I got married.

I Knew in my gut that there were some problems and should not have been doing that.

Right.

And looking back in the whole grand scheme of life, I have to say I'm here, it all happened for a reason.

I help other people of these amazing things, children, yada, yada, yada.

But maybe we're teaching the next generation to do better.

Oh, that's so important.

Okay.

Many people hear the word mediation, but they don't really know what that means.

Rachel, how do you explain mediation to clients and when it can be the healthier path to pursue?

Yeah, so love mediation.

A couple different ways to do mediation and I actually advocate for either of them, even as a family law attorney.

So mediation can be done by both parties together prior to filing for divorce.

There are lots of different family law mediators.

Some are attorneys, some are non attorneys.

They each have their place.

I personally, non attorney mediators are really great.

If you're like trying to decide a separation, what does a trial separation look like?

How are we going to do the finances?

How are we going to do the children?

I like non attorney family law mediators for those reasons.

I really try to recommend and highly recommend a few different people in town who do same party like working with both parties mediations.

But are attorneys.

A lot of times those attorneys are working with both parties in the same room or on zoom, working through all of the issues that would need to be decided in a divorce.

Right.

And then they send those parties off to another attorney typically to prepare the documents.

What's hard with non attorney mediators personally for me is when you have a power dynamic that is very different.

So a primary breadwinner, a stay at home mom, we have some alimony needs, he wants to pay as little as possible.

She needs as much as possible.

It's really hard, I think for someone who doesn't do this work all the time and know what the judges are going to do to kind of bring those two people together.

So the other way we can do mediation is if a divorce is already started, both parties have attorneys.

Maybe one party doesn't have an attorney and we go to mediation.

Typically neutral third party mediator attorney puts everybody in separate rooms.

Side note, I hate that I'm not a fan.

That's not how I learned in Ohio.

I can't believe we put parents in separate rooms to talk about their kids.

But that's a whole.

That's a whole.

Another podcast and attorney goes back and forth between the two rooms, typically all day sometimes to bring parties together.

Really great way to just kind of cut to the chase.

And also that third party mediator can speak some real truths to people if they haven't heard them from their own attorney.

So I'm always kind of jumping up and down about the fact that not all attorneys manage their client's expectations well.

Maybe they're just telling their client what they want to hear and that makes it really hard to, like, come together.

Like, if you're taking a position that the court isn't going to do and you stick with that, then it's.

Everybody's going to go like this.

So getting a good mediator who can go in and be like, push the party to have something a little bit more reasonable is always super helpful.

So, yeah, that's mediation.

Love it.

So we mentioned in the intro that you work with a lot of LGBTQ couples and obviously that's something, especially in this part of the country, that is deeply needed.

So I'm sure, again, this could be a whole episode in and of itself, but what are a few key things that you wish all same sex couples knew when it came to protecting their legal rights?

Yeah.

So we really want all same sex couples to be making sure they have appropriate estate planning documents.

So wills, power of attorneys, of healthcare.

We wanna make sure they have individual names in them and not the word spouse.

Right.

Not wife, not husband.

We want actual names of the other spouse in there.

Okay.

Just in case same sex marriage gets overturned.

Roe fell.

There's a whole different thing.

Lots of things legally with the Supreme Court we didn't think could ever happen.

And here we are.

We are.

And here we are.

So I want to make sure everybody has that right.

We don't want family to be able to come in who maybe don't agree with who they love to come in and take over during a really awful time.

We also want same sex couples who choose to have children to be making sure they are doing what we call second parent adoptions.

So if that's two women, one of them maybe carries a baby, IVF or iui.

And even if they have a baby in the marriage, we still want you doing that second parent adoption in case same sex marriage gets overturned.

Right.

So the gold standard of that is everybody needs to be adopting children.

If you are in a same sex relationship, we see a lot of divorce and then one parent is saying that it's not your child.

And we just, let's just make sure for the kiddo's sake, that's not happening.

Yeah.

And so those are the two big ones we see.

I see a lot of conflict Sometimes with same sex couples, especially two mamas.

You said two moms and there's double mama.

Bear energy.

Oh, yeah.

Yikes.

I actually think if you look at the statistics, the highest percentage of divorces are in lesbian relationships, which was.

And that that also tracks because I think I've heard that like, so in a hetero relationship, women are at least two thirds of the time the ones to initiate couples therapy.

And I think divorce as well.

It's almost like 70%.

And that's.

There's research that shows that women, their quality of life, their happiness is deeply impacted by the quality of the relationship.

Whereas with hetero men it tends to be just being.

Simply being in a relationship improves their quality.

Yeah, I believe it.

You're using my nice towels instead of the raggedy shit you've been using for years.

So you had two women together who both have high standards and high expectations and sometimes things are going to go sideways.

Yeah.

My hope for them would be how can we figure out how to do this better?

Because the children are just getting harmed with the conflict.

And you have the dynamic sometimes of one parent birthed the children, the other parent didn't, now they're separate.

I mean, it can just be so hard and the kids really struggle.

And I just wish every.

Not only same sex couples, but all parents could realize like the harm that is being done when you put kiddos in the middle of that conflict.

Absolutely.

Well, and it's ultimately one of those, like really hard pills to swallow where like I believe that being a parent is.

Some people believe it's just selfless or just selfish.

I think it's both.

I think you.

To be a parent is to recognize like it's a selfless thing that you're always going to be giving to this person that you created.

And there's maybe always a little selfish piece of like, well, you are a part of me.

I made you.

Part of the reason why you're here is because I birthed you and you're here.

So like being able to, I don't know, just meet that responsibility as a parent in the middle of.

I have a client right now and she's like, just.

I mean, the divorce has been nasty, the partner is nasty and she's just devastated.

She's like going through such a hard time.

And it's because kind of what you were saying of like, well, he did all this stuff to me, like, I don't want him around my kids.

And we're dealing with the reality of, well, the court doesn't give a Shit, he's still showing up and he looks dad of the year even though he wasn't husband of the year.

Right.

And it sucks.

And he gets to do that.

And your pain does not have to not be unnoticed.

The pain also then just can't be the responsibility of your children to bear.

And it's awful to hold that.

Yeah, it's going to be unnoticed by the court.

That's the hardest pill for people to swallow is you are not going to get validation from the court or the process.

No matter what happened to you was bad.

Like, it's just not.

And our laws haven't caught up to the course control to physical abuse of children.

Seeing physical abuse of one parent being abused, like we just haven't gotten there.

And it's.

Yeah, it's so hard.

And that's why like, okay, find a good trauma informed family attorney who can be part of helping give you that validation.

And then also if you're not in.

Therapy, go to therapy.

And a good therapist who.

I really want family law attorneys when it's okay and when a therapist will do it to be of part partnering.

Right.

Because sometimes I can see some therapists really validating what happened to the client.

And I can't believe the court's doing this.

And I can't believe they let him do this and he did something so awful to you, he shouldn't have.

Parody time.

It's not helpful.

No, it's not helpful.

Right?

Like I hear you and you're right.

You're like, but if you are a therapist and you have a client going through a divorce, try to reach out to that attorney.

See if you can have a meeting if the client will allow you.

Because I do think having an understand understanding of where the court's coming from, right or wrong, normally it's wrong.

Can be more helpful to your client because when the therapist is really involved and enmeshed in the story with the client and the other parent being the bad person, it's not helpful in the divorce.

Right.

So that's so interesting to think about.

We really like collaborative care here at the Gaia center.

So we love to work with your dietitian and your doctor, your PCP or whoever.

I think I never would have put like your divorce lawyer, your family lawyer.

But like, it's so, I mean, of course, yes, like therapists get subpoenaed to court all the time for different custody and things like that.

But just being able to understand when your client is going through something legal to have that connection is really interesting.

So of course you're getting the front seat to all of what's happening in Tennessee.

Rachel was just like, laws and policies affecting the real families that you've been serving.

What keeps you motivated in we old Pride Month and always to advocate for LGBTQ families here.

What gives you hope about the future?

Yeah.

So all you have to do is drive past my office on Charlotte to see what we believe in.

Right.

And I got a postcard in the mail from someone in the community in West Nashville thanking me for just the work we do.

And so those are the things that they keep me motivated, that there is a safe space, and there are a few of those places in town that can really help advocate for people, really push the courts to do better.

That's really some of the work that I really love to do.

The stand up, jump up and down, make someone feel advocated for.

It's really important for people to be able to love who they love, and that shouldn't be controversial.

And so I think just knowing that we've helped some of our clients feel heard and respected and let them be their true and authentic self, it's why we started doing free trans name changes.

Someone contacted me and really wanted to get a name change before the inauguration, and that.

That helps us just keep people on.

So.

Yeah.

All right, so take us out.

But for real.

Yeah, but for real.

Stay in the here and now.

Right?

Like, as if you're going through a divorce.

Stay in the here and now.

Empower yourself and stay out of your fear.

Space.

Love it.

Just one step at a time.

Okay.

All right, let's hop on over to our fun little musical segment.

Now, that's what I call.

Okay.

Where typically, Valerie and I share a song with one another from our respective generations.

We school each other a little bit.

Val gives me the old, I give her the new, you know?

But when we have a guest, we just prioritize their song.

So, Rachel, you picked Open up your Eyes by Tonic.

Tell us why you wanted to share this song with us.

Well, I was trying to think of something very kind of divorced.

I love a good, like, divorce playlist.

This isn't really that, but it is just kind of going with the theme of, like, the whole open up your eyes.

I was listening to it, and I was like, oh, this can, like, go for divorce.

There's so much on the other side.

There's so much to hope for.

Try to really just dream about, like, what the after looks like, because it is so much better on the other side.

And gosh, I love this album.

This album's just the best.

Oh, I'm excited to hear it.

Because I'm like, do I know this one?

I know.

We were just saying, listeners watch the music video, like, me and Valerie are kind of into, like, wait, they make these music videos?

We should be watching them.

No, I loved that.

That line.

I mean, the chorus, which, of course, when the song came out, we were like, oh, yeah, Open up your eyes.

Don't let your mind tell the story here.

Oh, such a good divorce.

That's what I was hoping for.

You nailed it.

That's so good.

And now for our segment, Dumpster Fire Phoenix, where we go dumpster diving for a little good news.

Because it is dark out there, y'.

All.

Sometimes we're pulling news clips, but sometimes just little fun bright spots from our lives.

And let me tell you, when I was in the Smokies this weekend, went to Dollywood for the first time, and Dolly is now my new special interest.

I've never been to Dollywood.

I'm obsessed with her.

And the park was amazing.

So I wanted to share.

I mean, she's just.

I think her whole being is love.

Oh, yeah.

Like that.

She just embodies love and authenticity and just in a way that I think we can all learn from.

And she's just funny.

She doesn't take herself too seriously, but yet she's so deeply committed to her art and her work and sharing her gifts.

And so she has many wonderful little quips.

But I loved this one.

Says, when I wake up, I'm like, I expect things to be good.

If they're not, then I try to set about trying to make them as good as I can because I know I'm gonna have to live that day anyway, so why not try to make the most of it if you can?

I mean, just love her.

Okay.

Also, yes, same for me.

No, like, national.

Just more like fun, personal news.

It's my birthday next Wednesday.

I'm a cancer.

I'm a notorious birthday hater.

I'll plan your birthday and I'll have the best time.

But when it's my birthday, I'm like.

I'm, like, freaked out.

So bad.

Existentially.

So I'm trying really hard.

I say this every year.

I'm trying really hard to, like, my birthday this year.

But my therapist was like, I mean, this is a non milestone birthday.

Yep.

You're 27 years old.

You're gonna be.

It's gonna be fine.

Like, just do what you want.

And I was like, wait, you're right.

That's why I pay you money.

So I have an earscape appointment.

Wait, what?

Like, have you ever done like, I'm getting extra piercing.

How many?

I'm getting my thirds and then I'm getting a flat up here.

You just do them at the same time.

You just do them at the same time.

And I have this little rook that I had a year ago, so I want to change the jewelry out of that one.

I love piercings.

I feel like they're just so unserious, but, like, really glitzy and fun.

Yes.

See, that's an earscape.

I have 2 and 3.

I like odd numbers.

Okay.

Yeah, I need to kind of bring a little bit more balance.

So I'm buzzing.

I'm so excited about that.

And I just like, have like my birthday dinner booked with my friends.

Like my bestie, Valerie, she got the birthday res all handled.

So I'm just like really excited to be with my friends and celebrate this next chapter of my life.

So, yeah, just big deal for a big boo birthday crier like me, I'm excited.

Okay, let's do a little rapid fire Q and A.

A little pew, pew, pew where we.

Just ask to close out some fun rapid fire questions for you, Rachel.

So let whatever roll off the top of your dome.

It ain't that serious.

Okay, Rachel, where is your go to place in Nashville when you're celebrating something?

So many good places.

I love to stay local.

So recently we've been going to answer a lot.

So my partner and I done answer for a few years in a row for anniversary.

So you can walk there.

It's amazing.

It's a cute spot.

I like it.

What's something on your bucket list that you haven't done yet?

Well, I would have said it was start playing hockey.

So I've not yet played in a hockey game, but I will in a few months learn to play.

So I was going to say getting the ball rolling.

Getting the puck.

Puck flying.

It's never too late to train something.

That's right.

It's never too late.

Okay.

I just straight up had to ask this because you're an attorney and I fear you're probably so busy and maybe need caffeine.

So coffee, tea, energy drink or none.

Yeah, so I'm not.

I drink one hot beverage a morning.

Yeah.

But then I had a nanny move in and she brought a Keurig and now it's one coffee drink.

You've lots of Yummy.

Chobani flavored cream.

But yeah.

So one.

One thing of coffee.

I love that.

How mindful.

Yeah.

What book have you recommended to more people than any other book?

Oh, I was just.

It's Little Beautiful Things I'm trying to remember.

It's a great divorce book.

I have to get it to you guys so you can put it in the comments.

But it is Maggie Smith.

Okay.

It's Maggie Smith something Beautiful Things.

I can like see the front of it.

Such a good divorce book.

Like moving forward.

Like I'm.

I'm obsessed with it.

It was done really?

And it's explicitly about that or.

Okay.

Yeah.

Her divorce.

Wow.

Love.

Okay.

And then to close this out, Rachel, what is one small thing that can instantly change the outlook of your day?

Gosh.

So I'm all.

So I personally am always looking for heart things, which I find super fun.

It just is happy.

So whether it's on the sidewalk, sometimes it's like a little blob of like tar that's in a heart shape.

Like sometimes it's clouds, sometimes it's so I love that I was doing it before Mel Robin, like share the hearts.

And that is just like such a fun little way to be out in the world.

Yeah.

And just look for that.

And yeah.

Wait, that's so cute.

I'm instantly stealing that.

And there was going to find.

There was for sure a tree at Dollywood that the leaves were shaped like hearts.

I'm like, what is this tree?

Take the picture.

Pictures.

Yeah.

I mean I just set.

I love that.

Oh my goodness.

Well, this was so much fun.

Rachel, please tell everyone and of course we'll leave every link in the show notes.

But where can people like come find you?

Yeah.

So we are on Charlotte in West Nashville.

You can call the office, set up a consultation.

We have a website.

As my 10 year old said once to his baseball coach when it rained and he was like, what's your mom's number?

He goes, oh, she's easily Google able.

So sadly, sadly, I am.

So the people can Google.

People can Google.

Yeah.

Love it.

Perfect.

Thank you so much for doing this.

This was amazing.

Thank you.

This has been another episode of but for Real, hosted by Valerie Martin and Emerson Ryder and edited by Volt Productions.

But for Real is produced by the Gaia center for Embodied Healing.

The Gaia center offers individual couples and group therapy for clients across Tennessee and in person in our Nashville office, as well as coaching and other programs for clients worldwide.

For show notes or to learn more about our work, visit Gaia center co or find us on Instagram, he Gaia center and ut fourrealpod.

But 4Real is intended for education and entertainment and is not a substitute for mental health treatment.

Also, since we host this podcast primarily as humans rather than clinicians, we are not shy about sharing our opinions here on everything from snacks and movies to politicians and social issues.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode.

See you next time, bestie.