The salient focus of this podcast episode revolves around the intricacies and experiences associated with van life, as articulated through a candid dialogue between the hosts. Savannah, a holistic health practitioner, engages in a profound conversation with Erika, her lifelong friend and current van life enthusiast, to explore the motivations and challenges inherent in this alternative lifestyle. Through their discourse, they illuminate the nuances of sharing a living space within a van, the dynamics of friendship, and the unique adventures that come with traveling on the road. Erica shares her journey of discovering the joys and hardships of van life, emphasizing the importance of community and the profound sense of freedom it can impart. Ultimately, the episode serves as both a personal narrative and a practical guide for those intrigued by the prospect of embracing a life of mobility and connection to nature.

Takeaways:

• In this episode, we discussed the profound impact of living in a van on personal freedom and community engagement, emphasizing the importance of exploration in one's life.
• The conversation highlighted the necessity of adaptability and communication in shared living spaces, especially within the constraints of van life, which fosters deeper connections.
• Listeners were encouraged to confront the romanticized perceptions of van life, understanding its challenges and the reality of limited resources and constant planning.
• We examined the philosophical implications of minimalism in van life, suggesting that true happiness often comes from valuing experiences over possessions and embracing a simpler lifestyle.
• The episode illuminated the significance of trusting one's instincts while traveling, particularly when feeling uncomfortable or unsafe in unfamiliar environments.
• Finally, we emphasized that regardless of lifestyle choices, one's spiritual journey and connection with God remain paramount, guiding individuals through all aspects of life.

Links referenced in this episode:

• outdoorsy

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Casting Seeds.

I'm Savannah, your holistic.

Why do I not want to restart?

Continue.

I'm Savannah, your holistic health practitioner and host and wish.

Listen.

Oh, you're listening.

Okay.

Okay.

You're listening to the only holistic health podcast that uses God's singular truth to give you individualized discernment.

This is what happens when you're doing podcast episode with one of your best friends.

I hope you guys feel like this is like a gal pal episode because it pretty much.

Erica still isn't breath.

A single tear just popped out of her eyeball.

No, don't.

Jeremiah said he's going to delete half of this.

I want all of it in it.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, you guys, while Eric is, like, trying to collect herself, you guys remember Erica?

She not only is a really good lifelong friend, but she also became one of my clients.

Normally the opposite happens where, like, a client becomes a friend, but a friend became lifelong friend, also became a client.

I helped her with her back and when she fell and told a really epic story about when she fell down a cliff.

She still has not been able to listen to that episode because it was just too traumatic reliving it for her.

So hopefully this will be an episode she can listen to now because it won't be traumatic, I hope.

Well, I'm crying, laughing.

So, yeah, not crying, crying.

Yeah.

Also, if you guys hear any sounds in the background, Jeremiah is watching the monitor.

We just put Penelope down, so I'm praying that she stays asleep.

But if we're laughing really loudly, she may not, I don't know.

But today's episode is going to be actually about Erica.

How long have you been doing this for?

Or van life?

Oh, it's been like a year and a half.

Can you believe we filmed that last episode when I just started my travels in January of, like, last year?

That's crazy.

It feels like I was just starting my van life.

Okay.

Yeah.

So.

So the.

Erica and my other friend Kayla have been preparing for a long time.

They were looking into vans and you guys split in a van.

Correct.

And we'll get into that, like, the dynamics of that and how they do it.

But I feel like a lot of listeners in particular, like, all of us who are interested in holistic health and, like, healthy lifestyles in general are like, you know what?

If I just didn't have a house, I would be so much happier because I'd be out traveling and, like, in the wilderness all the time.

I've thought that Jeremiah and I have Been like, screw it, let's just get an rv.

It's so much cheaper.

Not a van, but an rv.

Cuz we need more space.

Um, or at least we thought, you know, like, I feel like people who are Vanners are like kind of like extreme backpackers.

We're like, we can go ultra lightweight.

Yeah, we're better than the RVers.

I mean there's definitely perceptions across the entire community, but I think to each their own.

Your lifestyle.

Well, yeah, so.

And that's the other thing too.

Like I.

And I want to go into like the difference between Vanning and RVing and all that, but I want the listeners to first know, like, why did you and Kayla, why were you guys interested in van life?

I know you're both living in San Francisco and I feel like this episode too will be great for people who one, are really interested in it.

Two may hear some things that they don't realize are associated with van life that may be like, hey, there's some hard stuff.

And three, I've noticed that like, if I didn't have Jeremiah personally, Erica, I would not probably be into it because I wouldn't want to work on a car or a van and like get nerdy about that.

Like, that stuff does not interest me.

So I would need someone like you or Jeremiah because I'd be like, crap, this broke down and this is my house and I don't know what to do and I don't really care.

Yeah, I would.

I just want to see ya, you know, so.

And I know it's become like a hobby for you on top of that.

So I guess the first thing I want to know is what, what started?

Not necessarily the journey of you traveling, but what started you and Kayla even talking about, let's share, let's share a van first of all, versus like let's get a van and actually do this.

Like, this is gonna be our next chapter in our life.

Yeah, I mean, it kind of all started in that we wanted a van where it was about two years ago.

We wanted to do a road trip going to the south.

And we thought about driving, we thought about doing this flying.

And then Kayla, my, one of my best friends along with Savannah, was just like, why don't we rent a camper van?

Like she's always thought about that.

I grew up in Portland where like people owning camper vans is like, yeah, everyone, every other neighbor.

And so it was entirely neighbor, but it was really normal.

But I never really thought about it personally for myself, but I was like, sure, let's do it.

It's, like, broke down the numbers.

It was kind of the same as, like, renting a car plus hotels, but we get all the freedom and way more unique experience.

So we went on through outdoorsy, where we found a camper van to our liking.

Buster was his name, and we just had the most epic, mythical, grand time going through the south, doing all the things, but also kind of discovery along the way.

Like, she figured she already would love a camper van.

I did not know I would need a camper van.

Like, I needed a camper van in my life.

So then what did you.

What did you expect van life to feel like versus what it felt like out on the road with Kayla?

You know, I didn't really have any.

Expectations of what it would feel like.

I feel like it would just be, like, a constant road trip with my friend, just, like, in a smaller, like, kind of camping, but, like, more like glamping, I guess.

And did it feel like it?

Yeah, I kind of felt like glamping, I guess.

I never done an actual glamp side, so.

Well, I loved getting photos of you guys both sitting on the toilet.

Oh, yeah.

Don't tell Kayla.

She knows.

She knows.

Okay.

I think there's just so many moments, too, where it's just, like, you become so much closer to not only nature and, like, the community and the road that, like, that you're traveling on.

You see all these other areas where, like, I've traveled all around the U.S. that was kind of how my family did it.

We just road tripped, Grew up.

But I feel like I have to redo it again, because you just get so much more immersed in the community.

But even with another, like, Kayla in this instance, like, you could.

There's no room to hide in these things.

Yeah.

Like, to the point someone could be sitting on the toilet, and you reach out your hand, which is a very real moment.

And we're touching her.

I'm on the bed, and she's on the toilet.

We're touching her hands.

We just had that instinctual moment, and there's just like, a proximity and no hiding and a coordination and this kind of symphony that happens.

And in the van between two people that you didn't even know had to happen.

But it's a small space.

Yeah.

So that ability to essentially being able to work together and, like, cook dinner, to doing all these, like, small, little chores just becomes like this.

Like, this very, like, beautiful song and dance.

When you find the right person, I think, to do it in a van, you can't Just do it with anyone.

There does have to be just so much more communication and coordination.

That doesn't really feel like much when you're actually doing it, but it has to happen for that to work.

Yeah.

And if you're by yourself, you're by yourself.

But like, yeah, with another, it's like definitely a lot more of this, like beautiful coordination.

Song and dance has to happen.

So.

Okay, so what would be the difference then?

Because I know I've heard Kayla talk about a tiny house and you.

It's not like either of you have decided, like, I'm going to live in this van full time one because you guys can't because you share it.

But I guess like, because I know Kayla's talked about getting a tiny home, I. I think a tiny home is actually a little bit cheaper depending on how you go about it.

But like, what would you prefer a tiny house versus Because I know that's like a big thing too, right now.

Would you prefer a tiny house if you were kind of going to be in one area for a while or a van man, because you can move.

Yeah, that makes sense.

That ability to.

All of a sudden you just find somewhere that's so nice.

And it's like, I'm just gonna lay down or start cooking here because I have this beautiful view.

There were so many moments all that like year last year on the road.

And even, you know, when I get the van back, my rotation's coming around and where it's just like I did not expect to like this area so much.

Or I'm just really tired, I'm just gonna start cooking dinner or you meet someone.

It's just like you don't have to change around your plants.

I don't think you realize, and this is something I didn't realize either how much by having a home or your car or a hotel really ties you down to a place.

Whether or not you're enjoying that moment or place versus like when you have the van, your home is just right there.

It's like I'm enjoying the moment of this or this place.

Like I can just continue.

Yeah, it's just so much more freeing.

Well, okay, so then what was something.

Because obviously you guys enjoyed that trip of renting, right?

So by the end you're like, we want a van.

So 1.

How did you decide?

Together.

Like this is a.

We are gonna go in on this together.

50.

50.

And then how.

What was like a non negotiable, like in a build out also, you guys, sorry.

You might be able to Hear Jeremiah trying to calm down Penelope in the background.

Yeah.

So I think it went from like for me it was like I didn't want to be like I, I needed a van.

I think Kayla was also like went from like want to need, but I'll let her speak to that.

And she had luckily already had done all this research.

She'd been watching videos I think for like years wanting camper van.

Like that was on her bucket list of things to have in life.

And so she actually already understood like all like the mechanics from like the water to the power and everything that we should ultimately be getting.

We learned a lot by essentially like living in Buster.

The camper van that we had rented over two weeks essentially of like what we kind of looked for in like designs and other components of the van.

So what was something that really stood out to you?

I think we definitely.

This was kind of a non negotiable because I remember we had the list.

It was like we just wanted like our standard, it's called 140 Foot Wheelbase Mercedes Sprinter and a 4x4.

So we didn't want to be essentially limited in the places in which we could go just based on essentially because the fact it wasn't a 4x4 or like having a little bit longer Ravan does kind of like it makes a little bit more of a coordination but it's nice if you're doing longer term traveling.

What four by four mean?

Like what it's your ability to go like off road.

Oh, I was thinking like a box shape.

I was like, I was like.

I think it's like rectangle.

Yeah.

So like, you know, if we want to go off some beef your rows or something like that.

You can't typically just do that.

Any car.

Yeah.

Okay.

And especially camper vans are different in that like they're more top heavy.

So they're just more likely to have something kind of go wrong.

But you'd be surprised with any car or camper van the places it can go.

Really.

I will say that.

So after kind of also learning from the overland community, which is a whole other community, I got exposed to just simply by having this van.

Yeah, well, I mean it's just like having a dog.

Like I've met all of the people in my neighborhood that have a dog because I have a dog.

Does that make sense like, or like I've learned like a bunch of different communities even at beaches like dog anyway.

It's obviously not exactly the same.

Oh my gosh.

I just hit my little like thing also hearing Penelope, like, makes me so sad that she's crying in the other room, but it's fine.

Okay, so then what is like a myth that you feel like you heard before getting a van?

Are you here all the time?

Like, conceptually that people are like, oh, blah, blah, blah about having a van.

Doesn't it suck versus, you know, something actually being good or the opposite where you're like, oh, I really thought I was going to be able to, like, do life.

I mean, it's a good question.

I think if there.

I mean, you may not have any.

Yeah, I think when I think I don't do social media too much, but I think when I see social media these days with family, especially now that I own one, it's always the rosiest part.

So, like, here's this epic view of me cooking dinner and doing this.

And I.

A lot of times, whenever I've had a friend come and stay in the van with me, it's like, I.

The first thing I do is, like, say to them, like, well, here's the reality check of what it's actually like to live in a van.

Like, the things they don't show you on the insta.

Like what?

Like the.

You changing out your own, like, pee or poop, depending on your toilet setup, which is like a big topic in the van community too.

What you should change it out.

Like, what does that mean?

Like a dumping it.

You know, just like, depending on how much you have, you might have to dump it daily to.

Some people can, like, go a whole week.

You know, if you got a really.

Fancy toilet bucket, like, what is it?

So we have a separate canister of.

Essentially your P. Goes into one area.

Sorry.

When you live in a van, you get real explicit.

So sorry, people.

And your number twos go on the other.

And then you, like, mix in some wood shavings in our case and stuff like that.

And it basically goes into a giant doggy dad bag.

So, like, with us, like, with one person being in the van, I can change out my number one, a little pee canister, and essentially, like, dump it like every, like, two, three days.

Top.

Okay.

If you got one person, you're definitely like, that thing is pretty much getting dumped every day.

And the number twos.

First off, if you can save your number twos for somewhere else, you do it somewhere else, because no one wants to change that, including your own.

And so, yeah, when you do that, you just take it out and you move it.

I don't think van life's for me just from that alone.

And Showers, be surprised.

I mean, the showers is one thing where you have to be very mindful of, like, this is the other thing, too.

Depending on how much water your van holds, that really dictates the amount of water you can use for cooking as well as, like, a shower, if you happen to have a shower, which is also a strategy, depending on the type of van you have.

See, like, this stuff that's too.

That is so much to think about for me.

I remember the very first month in the van that, like, everything from water to power to showers was a lot more like, thought and strategy.

And it kind of felt a little, like, heavy.

But eventually you kind of just like.

I feel like with anything in life, you kind of get used to it and that becomes your new norm, and then it just becomes kind of freeing.

Well, it's kind of like when people hear that I cloth diaper and I make cloth wipes or whatever, they're.

They're shocked.

They're like, how could you?

How?

Well, it's the same thing.

You just put it in a bag instead of in a trash can.

Yeah.

Like, it's not that.

And then you throw it in the washing machine instead of having to go buy new diapers and wipes.

But your son's much more complicated.

Doesn't seem complicated.

I mean, it took us a little while, like, fine tune our approach to everything.

So.

So are those.

Is that the most inconvenient thing you think about van life?

It depends where I. I think the showers for me is probably the most inconvenient thing just because I'm highly active and that really, I found, like, a lot of my day kind of like going like, can I do this massive hike or can I do this trail run?

Because can I shower afterwards?

Do I have enough water?

Will I have the privacy to shower somewhere, too?

Oh, okay.

I. I just thought of one that I feel like I hear a lot, like, from my parents whenever you're off on an adventure, like, where is she?

Is she alone?

Oh, yeah.

Do you ever get nervous being alone?

Because I know you do travel alone in the van.

No and no.

I got this question.

I've been getting this question for years, but especially last year, just traveling alone in the van and then also around the world.

Firstly, I never tell anyone explicitly I'm traveling alone.

Yeah.

Safety number one, you keep your cards to your chest until, like, you feel, like, utmost, like, comfortable.

And that goes whether or not, like, you're doing van life and everything, because you just don't know who's out there.

But, yeah, there have been a lot of murders.

Like van life murders.

I haven't heard of that, and I don't.

But do you want to know?

It's when they're with a significant other.

So it's not like van life murders.

Girl goes missing and alone in her van.

It's been with somebody else and then the significant other.

Well, okay.

Well, I'm just by myself, so I'm not part of those statistics.

Congratulations.

No, I feel.

I've always felt very safe.

The most times I felt most unsafe was always in a city.

So with people.

That makes sense.

But, yeah, I've never been afraid.

Like, out in the van in the middle of the woods.

It's just more peaceful if anything else.

Have you ever had, like, a sketchy moment ever happen?

There was one time last year in the van where I was with a friend, and we were actually to stay at a vineyard one night through a program called, like, Harvest Host.

I remember this, but tell the story.

But ultimately, we kind of, like.

We kind of, like, felt it out.

We had dinner and was like, this just still doesn't feel right.

And go with your gut.

Your gut's always right.

So we ended up driving through a storm for, like, an hour to, like, this campsite out on some BLM land.

Our bureau, land management.

And when we got there, parked the van, friend goes on a walk.

She comes sprinting back, and I'm just like, what now?

And she goes like, erica, Erica, there's a double rainbow right above us.

And it's like, literally, she has a tub of what?

A double rainbow.

Oh, okay.

Can I tell you.

I thought you said a tub of rainbow.

Rainbow.

I was like, what?

No, no.

A double rainbow.

Yeah.

So she gets out her nice camera and takes this beautiful shot of this double rainbow where our van is just centered perfectly in it.

And we just took that as a sign from the universe, basically saying, good job.

You guys made the right decision.

So whatever was gonna happen at that place, like, we.

We felt like it wasn't.

There was going to be some more weird, so.

And we were just awarded for making the right call.

I. Yeah, I would say listening to your gut is always the best.

I'm.

I mean, whenever I felt that, like, conviction of, like, something's wrong.

Like, one time I was praying.

Yeah.

And I was talking to my friend ke.

It was when we lived together.

Do you remember this?

I was in the front yard and I was praying with Keely on the phone.

And my car.

The car door wasn't locked.

And in the middle of praying for.

I was in the middle of prayer, okay?

I opened my eyes, and I never do that while I pray.

I opened my eyes, and I just immediately locked my car door, and a man was right there.

I was on the park side, like, on the school side side.

You know what I'm talking about?

So I was scared to get out of the car because I would have had to run across the street and then to home.

So I was there.

I was parked outside of our house, but on the other side of the street.

Didn't you remember this?

Yeah, I don't remember this.

I know.

I. I would have told you 100.

Probably, but, like, there's just so much stuff that I know when we live together.

But that's the thing.

I was.

I literally sat in the car for another 30 minutes because I was too scared to get out.

And why?

I didn't even think of, like, calling the police.

They call me silly.

Well, you.

I don't think you were there.

You weren't home.

Still call me silly.

I just.

I don't even remember.

I was just so freaked out, like, to get out, but he went up to my car door and did the like.

Like, tried open.

And then I looked at him, and he just, like, slinked away and was an older gentleman, too.

Like, an older guy.

It was creepy.

He had the scariest eyeballs I'd ever seen in my life.

Anyway, it was so weird when I was way too scared of my car.

I literally waited forever because he just, like, went behind another car behind me, and I didn't know if he was waiting.

I know.

I ran to the house anyways.

Trust your gut.

Better to be a little bit proactive, avoid the situation than finding out what could be.

Park and lock, baby.

I do it now with Penelope.

Whenever I park, I immediately lock.

The parking's also a strategy how you park your van in the middle of the night, too, when you go to sleep.

How's stealth?

Like, okay, so I want to ask about that.

How is, like, stealth camping out, like, in the urban areas?

Because I know that sometimes if people are in, like, Mercedes vans and things like that, people get mad.

If you park in certain areas or stay on the street.

Right.

Do you have to stealth it or.

Not so much.

I mean, doing stealth camping in a city is not my preferred just because it's not very pretty.

It's usually more loud.

You're more likely to get something.

What we call the famous the knock, which is, like, usually, at worst, someone's gonna come knocking on your door.

Usually it's law enforcement.

I've only been gotten the knock once, but that was in a friend's van.

So.

And they just tell you to move.

So yeah, there's nothing really bad that comes from it.

But.

So one of the times when I have stealth camped in a city, it's normally because we use this app called Ioverlander.

Everyone uses it who's in the nomadic community.

Okay.

And essentially even in cities it will tell you like, oh yeah, these areas of cities are really great for essentially like just like where vans, people will cluster.

Yeah.

A lot of times though, honestly, in a camper van, especially if it's like, you know, you're not staying like a dingy, you know, kind of creepy looking man, you stay there one night, you were probably gonna think, oh, it's just the neighbor.

And that's the first thing I do whenever I did that is like I would immediately put up all my like window coverings and I make my lights like I'd already showered and did everything else elsewhere.

So I'm pretty much just immediately putting up all my window kindings.

I'm going straight to bed, no lights or anything.

So it just looks like essentially like the van is parked there for the night.

Okay.

And then I move on.

So if I ever did have to do stealth camp where I just didn't know where to stay, get ready somewhere else where I have the lights, I do my facial routine, all that stuff and I just drive somewhere else and I go to bed.

And I've done that a few times.

It's just like this is not, you know, it's like you're a little bit more mindful of your noise and your, your light.

And that's just one of the nice things about the van is like you, the freedom is to not be so just like your home.

You don't want to like feel like, oh, you gotta have more lights dimmed and everything else.

Like you just want to be in your home.

So.

Yeah.

Well, okay, so then because you've met a bunch of different people in van life community, and even for yourself, I think this would be a good question.

Yeah.

Do you feel like there's a lot of escapism in van life where like people are constantly in constant motion and not grounding themselves in certain areas, like whether, I mean we can talk about you separately but first in like more of the people that you've met, have you noticed that there's like they're always constantly trying to go somewhere because of X, Y and Z or I wanted to Escape my job or a marriage, a girlfriend, a boyfriend.

Does.

Does that seem to be like a common theme in van life or do people seem kind of generally well grounded and then I guess the same question for you as an individual also.

You beat a lot of different people in van life.

Yeah, people who have, you know, camper vans to just like regular like, I don't know, vans who just like converted them out and you can't really stand in them.

You meet all sorts of different people.

Yeah, I think that's one of the best parts is everyone's just got like an interesting story and a perspective on life.

And even people who have like, like pretty creepy looking vans.

Like the ones you're warned about as kids.

Nicest souls.

What do you mean, like a windowless van?

Yeah, like the ones that you were generally like, you would be a little terrified as like, you know, you're told about as a child.

Yeah, I mean don't judge a book by its cover.

I think is like the learning there.

But I think everyone is like, it's not like they're escaping.

It's more of like their claiming this life that they know to love.

And it's like this.

I think a lot of van comes with essentially some type of freedom as I get to go wherever I want, do whatever I want.

Maybe you're working, maybe you're not.

And it's more of just like the sense of exploration and claiming the life that is fulfilling to you.

And that's.

I think one of the very attractive and interesting things about van people is like they're not afraid to essentially go after.

This is the type of life and lifestyle that makes me happy and I'm gonna pursue it versus when I walk around, especially today, I see a lot of people who seem like it's a little unfortunate, feels like they're just kind of walking around with a little blind or like with shackles on.

Like even I feel myself with.

Even though I have a remote job now and I can work, it feels a little bit like golden handcuffs because I can't 100, you know, not work again and essentially go about doing anything.

I can work while promote, but I'm gonna be working, you know, your nine to five.

So.

So do you think then there's a.

There's a right person and a wrong person for van life?

I think it's ultimately understanding like your values, what you really value in life.

And I would question what do you value or what do you think you need.

I remember having this conversation with Kayla very early on about when we were just renting the van, it's like we really did discover, and we already thought this of us is like, you really don't need much in life to be happy.

Yeah.

I think a lot of, like, especially here in the US is like Americans consumerism teaches you, you need xyz, you need the house, you need a pool, you need all these clothes, you need this, this, and this.

Versus in reality, if you were to take like a step back and maybe explore it, you would discover that.

That the more you own, the more it owns you.

And what if you actually essentially just kind of explored, you know, this is what I need.

Which is less.

Sorry, I had to turn off.

Yeah.

So I was watching Savannah, like, slowly kind of go around the room.

So she's back.

Penelope's like, screaming in the background, and I'm not sure why.

Oh, here, let's take a break.

Okay, So a few things.

One, thank you everyone, for going through that.

I had to feed Penelope.

That's why she was screaming non stop.

Jeremiah was trying to put her back to sleep.

She was hungry.

And Erica also could.

She's.

She's wearing headphones this whole time.

She.

I was like, I can't hear you.

Like, we restarted this again and she goes, what do you mean?

I haven't been able to hear you this whole time.

We found out her headphones volume was completely turned off.

And I asked her, I was like, why did you think you were wearing headphones?

And what'd you say?

I thought for shits and giggles, just to look professional.

I don't know.

I'm here.

I can't.

It's been a long day.

Okay.

Yeah, it has.

It really has.

My day never ended from yesterday.

Okay, let's get back to van life.

This is.

This is house life.

You couldn't tell.

Okay, what is the biggest argument you feel like you've had that van life has triggered?

Wait a second.

Whether it's with somebody else or with yourself, like, internal conflictions.

What's like, the biggest thing that is, like, stirred your life in a negative way?

Can you phrase this question?

I'll make sure I answer it.

Okay.

Properly.

What?

I'm trying to think of how to rephrase it.

What's, like, the biggest conflict that has happened to you internally or externally?

Like, if anything significant has happened in your life because of the van.

Oh, okay.

Now this makes more sense.

Yeah, there's two.

One is more specific to just kind of like nomading it in general for like, the past year, I think the other one Is just stuff.

Like in a van you don't need.

Yeah.

You don't need much.

You really realize that too.

You don't mean much.

And the less you have, the more freedom you have.

The more you own, the more it owns you.

Van life is like backpacking.

Yeah.

A little more flexibility.

It's a little more comfortable.

Just a bit.

Just a bit, you know, a little more glamp, a little more for the gram, I guess.

Clamp, Graham, whatever.

But yeah.

So essentially, like, I remember when I got back from all my travels and back in like June and I was getting my first ever like apartment and I was furnishing it and I remember one day I was so angry at stuff after coming from like a year of living out of like two to three pieces of like bags and throwing a bunch of stuff in the corner to just return or donate.

And I was just so angry at inanimate objects of how much ownership it was going to have over me because.

You had to like fill.

Remember when you wanted a two bedroom apartment?

Oh, gosh, I'm so glad you talked me out of that.

It wasn't too bad.

It was a.

It was.

Yeah, it was, it was.

It was two bedroom.

It was.

That's right.

It wasn't.

No.

Because I love my 733 square feet is glorious for one person.

Yeah.

It's a good amount of space.

Amazing.

So.

And that's the thing, like, I feel like a lot of people think that the small compact life is intimidating, but I feel like it makes you value and find multi purpose and more.

Like you find more value in the things that you have because you have to get crafty.

Right.

Again, that's why I call it like, it's like backpacking to me because I feel like it's the same thing.

You try to find the multi purpose tool of your van.

Yeah.

I think everything you have in the van kind of has to serve a purpose and it has to serve ideally multiple purposes too.

It's just like a feature of essentially having this limited space.

And what in this area is going to bring you the most joy and value?

I think the one thing it's like, you know, in the van, but this is where like maybe having a place like swap out certain stuff is kind of nice.

It's like you can't have every hobby in the world in your van.

You can't have every single tool.

So how do you essentially like bring those moments of.

I still want to have this hobby over here.

Maybe I want to pick up mountain biking.

Okay.

Let's bring the mountain bike over.

Yeah.

Okay.

Now I want to do this like art.

Okay.

I can't have this in art in the van, but maybe I can have the van.

So you can kind of just rotation if you kind of figure it out.

So like you only have a certain amount of stuff with you occasionally and you can always swap it out.

So it's still like in a world where essentially you can bring things in and out depending on whatever season you are in life, versus like having a home where it's just endless seasons.

Yeah.

Well, you can only bring things in and out if you have a place to put it out of.

Yeah.

And I know a lot of people, some not a lot, but quite a few people will rent like a storage space to then be able to swap things out, which is kind of nice.

Or like even use friends houses or family's houses.

All of which I did.

Yes, it's true.

I had my stuff in like three different areas of the country at one.

Point and it was very stressful.

Oh yeah.

Because I had to go back and get it all at the end.

So then what would you say to somebody who you, who you may be romanticizing RV life or van life, like being.

Having life on the road, what would you say to them to kind of give like a reality check of what it's really like?

Of what it's really like.

Cuz I know you think it's wonderful.

You're a little biased.

Totally love it.

To give a reality check to somebody of like, it's amazing and not.

But yeah, but it's more like, hey, this is just.

This is how it is.

What is that?

I think it's work.

There's like, there's an adjustment period where like you've come from this life of essentially you have a home or an apartment, you've got running water, electricity and everything else and you've got places to put your stuff.

And essentially, look, now you're in this small, little confined area where you got limited water, you have limited power.

How do you constantly make sure that everything is still functioning at the end of the day?

And constantly checking your grid to make sure like, you know, often you're not going to actually run out of anything.

Yeah.

And it becomes kind of a little bit this game of like Tetris of like, okay, if I turn on my inverter to work my stovetop, how much power is that going to use?

Well, I still have enough power to put my lights on later if I use water to wash the sink or dishes.

In the sink.

Will I have enough water here for a shower later?

How do I get more water?

Will that water even be good when I go there?

If I get more power, do I have enough together for my solar, or can I essentially plug in my van?

Like, where does it happen?

It's a lot of, like, four thinking.

It's a lot.

You're constantly, like.

I remember it felt like a struggle in that first month, and then eventually you do just kind of.

It becomes, like, your new norm.

It's a constant game of, like, this forward thinking kind of just, like, becomes, like, just second nature.

So do you think you'll do this forever?

And if, like, let's say yes, your answer is yes.

What would.

What would it take for it to have an expiration date for you?

An expiration date?

Yeah.

Like, I.

Like, I won't be able to do this forever because of blank.

Put me in a wheelchair, and then we can say it's probably not anymore.

No.

I can't imagine my life without a van.

Really?

Yeah.

No, A van has to always be in my life now.

So if Kayla decided, like, she didn't want to be a part of the van life anymore, would you buy out the other half of it?

That definitely be something that we would explore.

I definitely want to build my own another camper van that's more meant for, like, touring.

So different kind of needs.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

That's already something I. I've been budgeting for.

For a different lifestyle for that one.

I would take on the road, ideally, with, like, a partner for, like, a year, because just like, in our.

In our wheelbase of our van, it is, you know, with two people, it's like two to three weeks, tops.

But if I was to think about, like, a year, I'm like, I kind of would like a little bit more space in the van for us to kind of, like, navigate the small terrain.

Okay, so you'd want something bigger.

Yeah, Just slightly bigger.

Yeah.

Okay.

Like, a little bit.

That thing was pretty big.

I didn't think it was going to be that.

That's, like, the standard size.

No.

You didn't think it was gonna be that big.

No, I thought it was way smaller.

Like the ones in my neighborhood.

Yeah.

Are.

And I think it's because also the wheels are smaller on the ones in my neighborhood.

Yeah.

Compared to.

I'll walk you by them.

Okay.

Once your leg is feeling a little bit better after I work on it.

But yeah, I just.

Yours is so tall and, like.

Oh, yeah.

It's got, like, a 2 inch lift and a bunch of beefy suspension upgrades.

Yeah, I wasn't expecting that.

And also the tires are huge and thick.

And I was like, whoa, nice.

Those triple.

Yeah.

See all this language too, I didn't have in my vocabulary at all.

When you get a van that forces you to be in this, you start finding things that once were like going right over your head.

Now I'm like, oh, those are some sexy tread blocks.

Sorry, this is.

I know you have certain viewers.

Okay.

Okay, So I guess this is like one of the final questions.

What did.

What's something you wish you knew before hitting like the road in general?

Something I wish I knew.

Besides, don't give me like that answer.

It's like I wish I knew to do this sooner.

You know, like you're talking about just.

Like more generally on the road or you're talking about more specific to campervans.

Like specific to how this.

You feel like it changed you as an individual.

Yeah, I think this is something I'm wrestling, I'm wrestling with this right now is restlessness.

There is something to be said about, and I had heard about this, that when you come from essentially, I think living a different form of like life or like one where you just basically, you know, quit your job and travel for a year.

Like how I did is that you need to have like a re entry period to pretty much re.

Acclimate back to like a normal life in society.

You know, quotation marks there.

And I gave myself that like a nice kind of six month readjustment.

Started taking things slower, started being in more homes that.

Things like that.

And yeah, I mean you, you got a home.

Yeah, and I got a home and I moved out to Arkansas.

Love it.

You guys should go.

Ben Miller.

Because I'm amazing.

You wouldn't think it.

And, and essentially it's just like I've now experienced this once incredible life of like being on the road, seeing constant beauty, having this crazy incredible like community that's so loving and so welcoming.

And now I just feel restlessness because I felt what true like I feel like this float, state and flow, state, flow and float.

Truly feels like.

And I don't quite have that anymore.

And even if I was to like take my job on the road, which I will do that in like spurts coming up.

It's just not like I can just kind of blast out from nine to five and do whatever I want.

It's like I still have to come back to my van and still work.

And.

And so I think I'll Be able to get, like, a taste of that to a degree.

But it's just like.

I feel like it's a little bit like I was in the Matrix.

I was offered the red pill and the blue pill.

I think it was the blue pill where it's like Neo took it and essentially, like, you are no longer in the Matrix.

Like, you see, that's the red pill.

Okay.

The real pill.

That's what I took.

I didn't know I took the red pill.

The blue pill is to stay in the Matrix.

Yeah, I didn't stay in the Matrix.

I feel like I did not know that I was living in the Matrix before.

I think there are certain things, kind of like towards the start of, like, Matrix, to how he knows a certain, certain, like, I don't know, Fishers or things that are unique in the Matrix.

There's, like, things.

Things seem off.

And I felt like I see that.

And I see a lot of friends who see that too, who have yet to, like, quit, but it's, like, on their mind.

And essentially by taking that red pill and experiencing, like, what true, I don't know, reality is.

It kind of sounds weird to say that it's like, I can't go back to the Matrix because now I see the world for what it is and what can be.

So do you regret having a home base now in Arkansas, like, in Benville?

I still love it.

I mean, the community.

I think my dream has always been, like, ideally eight, nine months of the year.

I'm living in one location where I can have that strong community a lot more, like, deeper hobbies that are easier kind of to do in, like, one area and then spend the other, like, three, four, seven months a year, either in one long stretch, traveling or, like, sprinkled throughout the year, maybe even, like, longer.

But I definitely still love having, like, a solid home base where things are just much more of, like a steady state.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I guess then doing half and half is kind of nice because then you can do the flow state of when you're literally flown around the country and then you can come back home.

Yeah.

I guess the last, last, last thing that I'd want to know and kind of understand is when do you feel like it would be time for you to be.

If ever on the road full time, Is that in the cards for you?

Would you ever not want to have a true home base?

Because I know your hobbies and I wonder if you would actually.

Personally, from knowing you, I wonder if you would actually enjoy that or if it might get exhausting for you only being on the road 24 7.

Yeah.

I think when I imagine, like.

Like, to me, that's like, the longest trip I have planned out to be in a vehicle is probably about two.

Years right now, as one consecutive trip.

Yeah.

That just sounds like a home for two years.

Well, you just said permanently, so that's.

I'm like, okay.

Can I see myself living in a van for five years?

Yeah.

It's like, pretty much what I'm hearing from you.

Jeremiah just whispered Africa.

No, that's actually the Pan Am.

Yeah, that's a little different, love.

Yeah.

Africa is going to be about a year, year and a half, and that's different.

And we won't see you within that time.

You come with me to Africa.

She, Eliza Thornberry out there.

Jeremiah is nodding his head, not joyfully.

I've got a lot of malaria pills.

I didn't get to use them last year.

Okay.

Erica's our world traveler.

Bring us back a little elephant toy.

What's that cartoon with the little guy?

Yeah.

Jeremiah thinks that he has a microphone and people can hear him, but you can't have commentary.

Yeah.

The Eliza Thornberry will be you.

Yeah.

I'm not gonna be Donnie going alongside you.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Isn't that what he sounds like?

Yeah, he's just.

He's rambling also.

That was my favorite cartoon growing up.

It would be.

Of course, then Rock Power was the bomb.

It was great.

That was, like, base here, wasn't it?

Yeah, it was about.

It was about Southern California for show over the Hawaii.

Did they get away?

I don't know.

We're getting off topic.

Back on topic with Van life.

Do you.

Okay, well, I guess two years, five years.

I mean, that's a long time, but that's still not permanent.

Do you see yourself doing something like, do you think you could do this permanently?

I've kind of learned never to say never.

Like, you can give it a try.

I think the only where.

Where.

World.

Wow.

Where I could see myself doing, like, truly, like, forever, is maybe with a partner to where it's like, yeah, I can make community anywhere.

On the road.

I actually spent more time with people than I did by myself on the road.

Just because I met so many people everywhere.

Actually tell people, like, no, because.

For hanging out.

Because I was like, I do want some alone time.

Like, no, this has been great, but, like, boundaries, and I think it'd be nice just to have, like, a partner to kind of, like, share and build that with and to not, like.

Like, honestly, it is nice for like the times where I was able to hang out in someone else's rig and we were sharing it for us to divide and conquer on certain tasks.

I just like, want a little bit bigger space, hence the.

The other van to build out eventually.

I think that's gonna be fun.

I know.

Where can people follow you so that they can kind of get a taste of van life and like, just if they wanted to ask you questions about van life or building and because I know that you have cultivated genuine, really cool relationships, even a southern dad, through this whole experience and even you created a new.

You moved to Arkansas.

If it wasn't for you being in the van, you would not have moved to Arkansas from San Francisco.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

That wouldn't have never happened.

Yeah.

So I mean, having that one trip literally changed the trajectory of your entire life.

Oh yeah, for sure.

And I mean, it sounds like it's going to continue, which is amazing and I love that.

But if people wanted to ask questions or, you know, ask questions about builds or like, are you interested in helping people along that journey?

Oh, for sure.

I will talk your ear off about anything that you have a question on.

I have friends who regularly ask me.

I have one friend who's like asking me all these questions right now related to van life, but also just like micro retirements for the year because that's essentially like what I did and it's something I could plan on continue doing.

And I'm learning to like basically build vans on the side from, you know, going on van travels to My social these days is a little more quieter, but it kind of goes up and down ways and hopefully I'll get like in a good groove of actually like posting to it more consistently.

But I'll be getting my band rotation back here soon come the new year, so there'll be a lot more van travels in store.

But yeah, from van travels to traveling to friends, other vans and Airstream and toy haulers and RVs, like, I've done it.

I've done a lot.

And it's all.

It's.

Once you're like in that community, it just kind of opens up to everything.

One thing I love about Erica too is she is my one friend who.

Well, I shouldn't say one.

I have a few more now, but they're very specific.

Like they only like to research, like health and healthcare things.

You and I, when you and I are interested in something, we are the nerds.

You and I dive in deep.

We research, we get to know, like we become Masters in that thing because we want to understand it and then we get excited to always learn more.

It's like we never know enough about that.

And Erica is that in this context, which is why Jeremiah was brilliant in thinking about me interviewing her today for this podcast about van life.

He wanted it to be about, like, how van life can then coincide with, like, health and like.

But, like, I feel like all of it is a holistic aspect because just like any hobby or any lifestyle, it.

I mean, it's a whole holistic part of your life.

Holyistic, as we like to say here.

Which speaking of to kind of drive in a little thing about Christ at the end of this, because I know we didn't speak about it much.

And this is a holistic podcast.

I was gonna say just for any listeners that are kind of craving van life, but it's only.

It's because they have this, like, ideal aspect of, like, surrealism and escapism, freedom and clarity.

Like a very romanticized view of it.

Right.

I just want to make it very clear that no matter what lifestyle, quote unquote, lifestyle that you choose, Christ is still in every single bit of it.

Right.

So Erica calls it the universe.

Right.

But obviously we call it God and the Holy Spirit.

Because the people.

Listeners know from last time that.

That we have different views on this, even though we're best friends.

I mean, I don't.

I never listened to the last question.

That's right.

I can't remember what it was.

Erica's not a Christian, but I love that in our relationship.

One, she totally respects the fact that Jeremiah and I live in a biblical home and we talk to her all the time.

She'll be like the universe and like God.

And it's kind of like an ongoing joke between us.

But ultimately, what I want to drive in because a lot of our listeners are Christian.

Yeah.

That the only freedom, like you can drive near, far here, there, go travel around the world.

But the true freedom that you would ever find is through Christ in Christ alone, because the shackles of sin have been taken off of you.

So I feel like people sometimes use trips or travel as an escapism route.

And I feel like that's kind of like the theme.

That's why I asked you about it, because I feel like people can get branded that.

And I feel like from what I've experienced from you, it's so not true.

In RV life or van life, in traveling life, you find communities all around the world.

And I feel like that's also an aspect of when Christ Came here.

No matter where he traveled to, he literally sat and ate and made meals with people and did life with people and got to know people at different parts of their life.

Like, there was no one too good, you know, like, too wealthy or too poor, because they compare that a lot in the Bible.

Like, if you were poor, you're like dirt.

And there was no one who had gone too far.

Like the prostitute.

Right.

The people who were too sick.

Jesus did life with all of them and loved them all equally.

And that's one thing that I've really appreciated about hearing Erica's travels in van life.

Because, I mean, just hearing all of the people that you've met in different aspects of their life, and some of them have been Christian, some of them have not been.

Some of them have been adventurous, some have been old, some young.

They're really.

Like you said, there's no specific person that this has to entail to be able to enjoy this life.

So for listeners who are hearing this, if God really is calling you to do that, I don't know.

Jeremiah brought up a good point, because we're also called as Christians to be in a community, a consistent community that we're loving on through a church, but we're also called to be in the Word and be in prayer.

So if God's called you to more of, like, a mission field community where you're hopping around for a few years, you should be very intentional and make it clear.

Like, God is leading me to X, Y, and Z.

So I just wanted to hammer that in a little bit at the end.

But is there anything else you'd like to say?

Anything that has popped into your mind or your heart, Erica, that you're like, one last thing about van life that I 100 think would be the best thing ever for you, or beware of this.

Anything that you're like, this is it.

If I were to sum up van life in one sentence, here it is.

Well, that's a lot of pressure.

You could say no.

Just like, you know, boundaries with the.

Other, I would say, just do it.

Go for it.

I mean, you got one life.

Why?

What are you gonna.

What are you gonna regret most in life?

Are you gonna regret just staying, or you're taking that trip and you can always just dip your toes into it.

Like I said, we started by renting a camper van for two weeks through an app called Outdoorsy.

And you can get all sorts of different rigs on there.

It's basically the Airbnb for, I think, just outdoor rigs.

And yeah, just see how you like it, you know?

Can people rent yours?

I'm just joking.

We talked about that.

But no, her name is Axel.

We were very protective of her.

I know, Eric.

The rule is to like.

Because Jeremiah and I were like, oh my gosh.

We could go with the dogs.

And immediately Kayla and Erica were like, no pets.

I was like, we could talk about pets.

Kayla's the one who's like, no on dogs.

That's fair.

She's on my cat.

That's not.

Oh, yeah, we'll talk about that.

Yes.

Jeremiah keeps making comments off Mike and it's so annoying because people can't hear.

But anyway, thank you guys for let.

Hey, I love that.

I got.

I got like a. I mean, I can't right now.

I was gonna say I was supposed to interview a few other people, like again for a second time.

Oh, yeah.

And I love that it's actually coming back around.

Like, I'm doing second interviews with people.

Like a whole year later from our last one.

Last one was pretty, pretty heavy.

I know.

And now I'll actually listen to.

Yeah, well, we'll see, huh?

I'm joking.

We're really tired.

You guys are weird.

Also, the last time we did an interview, it was like at 2:00am that's right.

It was like late.

We were so tired.

It was.

And then all of a sudden you got panicky.

It was like a whole thing.

Gosh.

Reliving your pre work days, Greek child days.

I know.

Look at us crazy kids.

And with that, we love you guys.

We are praying for you.

Remember to always keep casting seeds.

Whether you're in a van, in a car, walking about.

I don't know.

See, it's handy.

Let's stop what it's about, but love you guys.

Bye.

Bye.

We hope you enjoyed learning how to cultivate God's creation from a biblical perspective.

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We would like to remind you before we leave that perfect health cannot be attained in this world.

Only spiritual salvation through sanctification and repentance to God and turning away from sin will give you a perfect body in the kingdom come.

Nourish yourself in the word, in prayer, and in biblical fellowship daily.

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Always praying.

Keep casting seeds.