Just like every individual has their own set of skills, someone’s journey to their current career is personal and unique to their own experiences and passions. My guest on today’s episode did just that! Maxwell Roach, tutoring business owner of JonAyves Learning Club, shares how he started his journey from professional drummer to online tutoring business owner. 

Lots of things contributed to Max’s decision to start and grow his own business, but none as important as when he started having kids. Max gives us an insight into how having proper education for his own children sparked a need to create an online tutoring business of his own. Through that idea, we have a deep discussion over personalized engagement, different learning and teaching styles, and how students can truly learn through anything around them.

We know that starting your own business isn’t an easy venture, but it’s worth it when you have the passion and drive behind it. As Max reiterates throughout the episode, with each new experience, you learn new skills that help you grow along the way. As you begin your new business or career, keep that advice in mind and you’ll find success!

For all links and resources mentioned in this episode, head to the show notes: https://www.educatorforever.com/episode18

Watch our free on-demand workshop to learn more about flexible work opportunities beyond the classroom: https://www.educatorforever.com/workshop

Take our free quiz to discover your next career step: https://www.educatorforever.com/quiz

Follow us on Instagram @educatorforever.

Lily

Maxwell Roach is the founder of JonAyves Learning Club, a forward thinking tutoring service that teaches children concepts such as long division as early as the age of three. Max has traveled a diverse career trajectory spanning the childcare, music, food technology and education sectors. He holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Toronto and a certified as a professional in human resources.

Lily

This has opened doors to an eclectic and wide range of opportunities, including performing as a musician with artists such as Beyonce, and the Rolling Stones, leading a multicenter childcare organization as CEO, and working as an operations director and consultant for ecommerce tech companies globally. Max is a serial entrepreneur who values the need to fill industry gaps by way of disruption and modern solutions.

Lily

Welcome Max, so glad to have you here.

Max

Thank you glad to be here.

Lily

Awesome. Well, I know that your professional journey has been very interesting. And I would love for you to kind of take us back in time. And tell us a little bit about what you've done professionally and what led you to where you're at today?

Max

Absolutely. Again, thank you. This has been, it's been a journey for sure. And, you know, before the call, when we were kind of chatting a little bit, you know, it's been a, you know, running from one place to another, and just managing growth and all these things.

Max

And you know, I think that's the exciting part of life, right? Definitely go go and try things and do new things. And they might work it might not, but guess what, it might work. And it's fantastic that way.

Max

So I guess you know, a little synopsis of myself, I'm mainly trained as well as a musician. So I come from music, long line of music in the family as well. And I studied at a school called Grant MacEwan College. Now it's Grant MacEwan University, it was a college when I went previously, and I studied music there on drumset, actually, and learned a lot of other things as well.

Max

And then what's the University of Toronto and completed my studies there as well. So and from there on, it was pretty much just touring and enjoying and learning and all kinds of things. Right. So it was really been beautiful. And I think, you know, at that time, I had also met my wife at the time, as well, within that was also a musician.

Max

And, you know, had children and it sort of turned into a situation where, well, you know, the tour life needed to end, it can't be, you know, running around the world, you know, jet setting the whole thing, and you've got, you've got these little ones at home, right.

Max

So what ended up happening is, you know, I sort of started to put it to the side a little bit and kind of leave it where it was, and, you know, on and off, still had some performances, but really started to continue, I would say, my entrepreneurial journey. Because music in itself, being a freelance musician, it's entrepreneurship to the fullest.

Max

So, I mean, moving forward, you know, the next logical transition, is, for some reason, starting a bread business, not sure why that's next. But that's what ended up how wonderful you know, it was, it was a ketogenic one, actually, as well, kind of, you know, was looking to, to shed a couple of pounds, you know, if you will, and, you know, had a little bit of success there learn a lot about entrepreneurship, and building a business and whatnot.

Max

And that led into getting into the tech industry, and, you know, speaking to professors, and PhDs, and you know, those that administration of universities about deep learning, and machine learning and AI, and all of these things, unbelievable, right, running director of operations in that respect, and just being a part of the community, you know, running projects, and, you know, managing software teams, it was amazing, incredible, you learn a lot there, too, right?

Max

You just keep moving, and you just keep acquiring skill sets and whatnot. And, you know, it eventually led me to a childcare organization, where I was the CEO of this child care organization, and we have four centers, and 250 children, so you can imagine, you know, one child is, is, you know, a handful enough. Something else? Right. So, you know, I was in there for a while and notice quite a few things.

Max

And again, throughout this whole journey, really, my wife and I, we really were, we very much wanted to make sure that our children ourselves, had the tools needed, right and necessary. So we were investigating education from when our now eight year old was born, right.

Max

So it's been a long time coming to now, you know, through all these experiences, hopping into moreso education, even through human resource certifications, and, you know, MBA studies, which I didn't, I'm still pushing in that direction. Things keep taking its time, right.

Max

But you know, here we are now with a tutoring organization. It's been great. We cover around three cities here in Ontario, and we've recently launched a virtual component as well, our own curriculum. We have books that are also on pre order. So it's, it's been incredible, nothing short of it.

Lily

Yes, that's awesome. And I think it all goes back to what you shared at the beginning of just trying things out. And you don't know if it's gonna work or not. But just hearing you talk about the different things that you've tried, I'm sure that through that process, you will learn so much too and until you're in it, you don't really know.

Lily

You know, I think that's one thing that I talk to people a lot about. It's just like we can get in our heads so much being like, well, maybe someday I'll do this or like, I don't know, if I do this, then this thing will happen. And we get so forward thinking that you just have to do it, and figure it out through the process.

Max

My wife and I, we have this saying all the time. Anytime we're about to jump into something you say, Well, you don't know until you don't, right.? And absolutely the truth. Every time. It makes us make some decisions, you know, after we we dive into it, we do all the research, the pros and cons list, you know, I run the numbers and everything. And you know what, at some point, you just got to take the leap, you just go for it.

Lily

Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's all just like one big science experiment. That's how I always say, this, you know, you're like, how about if I change this thing? Now what happens? What if I change this thing? Now what happens. And so it keeps it interesting to you know, there's always new things to try and always do things to learn too.

Max

Definitely, definitely. This is great, though this is exactly and as well to yourself. Kudos to you, because you have so many different avenues as well, you know, whether it's, you know, in the Curiosity Forever, or, you know, Educator Forever as well. I mean, wow, like, I have so many questions for you, as well. But anyway, I'm sure we'll continue conversation for sure.

Lily

Yes, absolutely. Well, I think that's like that entrepreneurial spirit in some ways, which I really connect to also like the same vibe as being a teacher, you know, where you want to learn new things, and you want to crack puzzles.

Lily

Like I often think about with kids, when I was teaching, and I'm sure you've seen through your experience, too, you know, just certain ways of teaching don't work that well for individual kids. So it's like, Hey, let me try this. How can I do this? Like, how about in a song? How about with manipulatives, like, whatever it is. Same thing with business with life, you know, that you just have to keep trying new things.

Max

Absolutely. And it's the only way you learn, you know, you meet a lot of new people, especially when you go through these sort of different phases. And you just, I mean, it's all about growth, right?

Max

Whether whether you're a business, or whether your business is yourself that you're managing, right, or your family, or whatever it is, there has to be forward motion. And if there's not, it's kind of miserable, you know, so, to anyone out there to your listeners, or whoever it might be, try to strive for forward motion, if not already, you know, keep it moving.

Lily

Oh, my gosh, yes. And I feel like as a teacher, you know, as a teacher, who often you know, teachers don't have that much autonomy and feel like disconnected from their school sometimes. And that it can feel really hard when you feel stuck in a classroom, to be able to have that forward motion when you don't have the agency and autonomy.

Lily

So I think that's a great message, especially for teachers who might not feel like they have the motivation to do something new, you know, that it's just that forward motion, like mix it up, read a new book in your class, or, you know, do a fun art project, like whatever it is for you, that will give you that feeling of forward motion.

Max

So just to piggyback off of that, as well, you know, I have my students, and I have a set of English ESL students, right English as a second language. So we have a curriculum set for them, which is great. But what I find is that sometimes things get a little boring, like, let's be realistic about it.

Max

We're learning the English language. I mean, we're fortunate that because we're speaking it now to each other, we have learned it right, great, right. And there are other cultures that have learned their language, and they speak to each other. But when you're going into a new language, I mean, there's so many rules to learn, and, wow, you know, all these things.

Max

And you know, sometimes like you said, you got to mix it up. So what I what I've done, even recently, this week, actually, I went and I went online, and I said, Okay, how am I going to do this, I need to mix this up, I need to figure out how I'm gonna make this more interesting for myself, right, as well. So I went and I found a bunch of different types of cards, right?

Max

One in particular is called Silly Sentences. So there are a bunch of kinds of cards that they come in, I guess, six by eight sheets. So you can fold them, you can cut them and you can distribute them however, right. So we flipped them over. And then what we're doing and this is all an experiment as well, right?

Max

We flipped them over and each each card has a word on it. It has you know, one has an adverb, one has a nou,n one has a preposition, what have whatever, right? However many. So then you're making these silly sentences, right? So you flip them over. And the goal, the way that I did it anyway, is let's see who's gonna make the best sentence the fastest.

Max

And of course, my sentences have to be six times as long as theirs and we're flipping through cards, trying to find the words that we're looking for. It's like, I can't find the word the. Where is it? Right. It's so much fun.

Max

And I've never you know, this is what happens is that you start to reinvigorate your students and reinvigorate those who had the fire in the beginning and then you start to see it kind of fading a little bit just because of the monotony. And I think, again, even in business, and I think that's the hardest part about running a business is that there's a ton of monotony.

Max

So how do you get over that? Because no one's going to help you do it if you're running your own business, right? You have to either just power through, or, you know, realistically and figure out a way to make it exciting yourself. Right? So, yeah, lots of different tools for sure that are available.

Lily

Yes, I love that. And it's like, if you don't enjoy it, then why would kids enjoy it? Going back to the teaching, you know, you got to find a way where you actually enjoy what you're doing. And you enjoy learning things and you enjoy what you're bringing to students so that they see that joy to and really pick up on it? Definitely.

Lily

So I know and you telling your story you kind of connected to when you had kids and thinking about how they learn and the experiences you wanted for them. And can you reflect a little bit just on how being a parent has changed how you see teaching and learning?

Max

That's, that's an interesting question. Because I find that being a parent has changed how I view everything, right? And what I mean, teaching is one thing, right? I mean, if you want to learn how to do anything, just have some kids, because what they're gonna do is they're gonna teach you patience. And that's the key to all it unlocks everything.

Max

And then you start to learn, especially when you start managing people, and you started getting into different areas of business, that everyone has got some percentage of kid in them, right, whether it's certain things that they want, at the time that they want them, or there's certain things that you know, they strive to be, but they feel that they can't get there.

Max

And I find that with teaching specifically, this is the case across the board. So I mean, sometimes those who are in kindergarten can't really verbalize this as much. But as you talk with those who are maybe entering high school, you know, you talk to them about their past going through elementary school, you start to realize that, wow, we're all just kind of the same in some respects.

Max

So how would I treat myself if I'm teaching myself a new skill, or a new habit or a new lesson? Right. And again, I'm trained as a drummer. So that's sort of my trade, right, as I like to say, and, you know, a lot of times I say, you know, it's all about getting down to the molecular level, right? Really, what does that mean? Right?

Max

So, as an example, and hopefully, this is simple enough for all of the listeners that are out there as well, you know, with drumming, you have use your two hands, right, use your feet as well. But you got two hands, right? If you want your hands to get faster, you practice right hand then left hand, and then you go faster and faster, in fact, get your technique over time, it builds, right simple concept, right?

Max

It all starts with that. And sometimes you'll watch musicians, and they're just unbelievable. You can't even believe how old guess what, every one was terrible at one point. It's just how it goes. So weird segue. But I guess that's how we have to apply towards our children as well, is that realizing that listen, they're not going to be amazing at the beginning. It's just what it is.

Max

So teach them at the molecular level, right? Simple concepts is what everything is that always the building blocks, right? So it's pretty exciting just to kind of think about that, and apply that to teaching as well. That's sort of what the curriculum is built upon, as well is really the simple levels that we really go through, right.

Max

And, again, we have the JonAyves method, right? We sort of coined this we call the jam, right? So we have these different colors, we got white jam, we've got blue jam, you know, green jam, all these different colors, you know, it makes it fun for the kids, right? And all those things.

Max

And within those levels, it really builds upon each other. Right? So we have a math portion. And we also have the reading portion. And what I found is that with our kids, so our kids have been doing, you know, long division, double digit multiplication, probably since they were about three years old, you know, probably even a little bit earlier.

Max

My wife sent me a video the other day of my son, I guess I was holding his finger. And we were going through a book, right. And he's just reading the book. And, and we were so happy. And you know, the encouragement as well, because again, as adults as well, we need that encouragement, we need people.

Max

But here's the thing, we don't actually get the encouragement most of the time, because there's no time for it. Right? You're at your job, your boss is doing what they're doing right now, this is where times have sort of changed. And what I've noticed as well in the workforce, especially working as an Operations Director.

Max

That we really do go and we look at our employees and try to at least show them the value in the best way that we can. Right? We try to care, we try to understand where they're coming from. Maybe we provide lunches every day, right? This is these are the things that have been happening. You look at these companies like Google and Microsoft, and all these companies and a lot of startup companies as well in tech, where you're just looking to value the employees, right?

Max

So how do we value our children the same, give them the same level of respect, understand that they are learning, so they need to be taught? Great. It's amazing. So this is where I found that myself, I really wanted to take it into my own hands because as teachers and being in the childcare and talking to many early childhood educators, it's hard managing a lot of kids. It really is.

Max

I'm sure you can speak a ton to that, right. I'm not the expert on that side of things, but to those ECS that I spoke with, and they don't they don't have 20 kids in their classes. They've got a few you know, they got to change the diapers and you know, the all those things as well. That's a whole other set of rules.

Max

You know, how do you manage this and still have time for education? And the reality is that sometimes it's hard to focus on even one or two or three kids. Right?

Max

So, hey, you know, so that's sort of, I guess, where the parenting came in, where I'm thinking, Okay, I have time to teach my children, but it's one on one, or it's one with two of them. So why not just apply this in a different area? Because it seemed to work here. And here we are, right? It's, it's been going quite well. So I guess that's a little bit of a synopsis of why or how that works, anyway.

Lily

Yes, no, that's so interesting to think about. And I think I saw that as a parent during COVID of my kids doing school on Zoom. And my daughter was in second grade, when COVID started, and she loved it. She loved being on Zoom, because it could be so short of like the learning synchronously together time, and then she could go and she could have her work be really personalized to her.

Lily

Or she could go climb a tree for two hours in the afternoon, or build something with Legos, or make slime or whatever it was. So having that freedom to have it be more individualized, I think, is really where the magic happens. And where a lot of teachers struggle being like, this was a major reason why I left teaching, feeling like I couldn't really reach all my students where they needed to be, because I was one person.

Lily

And there were like, 30 kids in my class who all needed so many different things. And it's pretty impossible, like, even for the greatest teachers to be able to provide that level of personalized learning experience is encouragement, like all the things when there are so many kids with so many different needs in one spot.

Max

Absolutely. And that's such a difficult task to so one of the things that I've been thinking about, especially lately, right, I had this sort of thought process, and I came up with this idea of the three L's, right. So love it, learn it, and then live it, right.

Max

So the reason why I'm coming up with this, and I'm thinking about this so intensely is because well, let me think about this for a moment. If there's ever been something that I've just needed to learn just because I need to learn it, I forget it immediately, I have the worst memory, I write everything down. And then I still forget it. I don't know, right? It is what it is. Right?

Max

So because again, there are many moving parts and whatnot. But the things that I've always loved. And again, sometimes those loves fade for certain activities, or whatever it might be. But those things that I've loved, I've never had a problem learning it ever. And it sticks, right?

Max

I've had situations where I'm learning certain ideals, right, even in in, let's say, you know, website creation or running a business and you know, even simple things like reading books, never wanted to read books when I was younger, until the passion of you know, running a business comes into play.

Max

And I'm thinking, wow, there's some content out there that I really, really need to consume, because I love where this is headed right now. And then it just opens up the floodgates, right? So sometimes it's just not time yet for certain pieces of information to be delivered to children. And I think that's fair, right?

Max

Because the kids are still trying to figure it out. I'm sorry, they're not trying to figure it out. They are figuring it out. And then sometimes, you know, some of us are trying to interject in ways that are too stringent.

Max

So with my tutoring tactics and methods, again, I have children when we're in the classroom, right? It's only one on one right now. It's only one on one, I'm not doing group classes for my own personal reasons, right?

Max

I have kids that are under the tables, on the tables, under the chairs, you know, there's there are some there's some lights that are set up as well in the room that I teach at, they're like, oh, I want to take a picture. I can't really take pictures of the kids, right? You can't do things like that. But you know, they're joking around and things like that. And great.

Max

Like you said, sometimes you just want to climb a tree. Sometimes I just want to climb a tree, right? So it's what it is. So allowing the children to do what they need to in order to either refresh themselves, or the great thing is that I still educate them at the same time. Right?

Max

I have one student I've got a bunch of flashcards, right. She's four years old. So she's counting fantastic right now. Right? And so I've got a bunch of flashcards I'll fan them out to her. And she was so excited because we've done this before. She's like, Oh, I can't wait. Oh, yeah, please show me the flashcards.

Max

Why? Because she gets to pick the number, right? We'll have them between zero and 30 or something like that, right? She'll pick the number, say the number and then toss the flashcard across the room. You know what I mean?

Max

So just being able to being able to to allow children to do this, it's so rewarding for myself because then I see the results, which is amazing. So that's really what led me into this direction in the first place. Because I know that as teachers being able to have that level of like you said, autonomy, it's more difficult when when you're in an institution, right.

Max

So and seeing the gap, the pandemic and again, you know, trying never to talk about it again really is the goal right but the pandemic itself, it did leave some gaps, right? There's a reason why students are coming to me why parents are coming to me because there are gaps in there that we don't really know how to fill yet.

Max

I mean, let's be realistic, everything within the snap of a finger. Everyone started working at home. How do you deal with this? The world has never existed like this. Right? So here we are, right. And I think that it's interesting to sort of look at these problems as exciting, right, and time for change and evolution and disruption and all those things. And, you know, I, it excites me, it definitely does.

Lily

Yes, totally. I mean, I think that the role of joy and freedom is kind of underestimated, in the world of education for students and for teachers. I think that freedom piece of being able to throw a card across the room, which in a traditional classroom, you know, people would look at you like, You're crazy, for the most part, right? Yeah.

Lily

Kids need that. And like, I think we're over reliant on so many rules in the classroom, in society, you know, it's so compliance based, that it's so stifling sometimes for our children. And so I think giving children an opportunity, whether it's in a tutoring session, or some kind of small group or at home with their parents, you know, where they can be more empowered to be free and joyful.

Lily

And that they know that they're learning all the time, you know, whether it's like they're studying and Pokemon cards, or my daughter is obsessed with sports, right? She's like, study sports facts all the time. And like is always just like soaking it up. That's learning, you know, but I think that sometimes we see it so separate.

Max

That's so it's so I don't know. That's so uncanny. Literally this week. I have one student. He's he's got I don't know, he's got every Pokemon card under the sun.

Lily

Oh, don't tell my son.

Max

It's magnificent, right. And you know, I grew up in a time as well, where I remember the first Pokemon episode ever. I still remember it like it was yesterday, right? And I'm like, Dad, you have to make sure you wake me up, please. It was before school, seven o'clock in the morning had to watch that first episode. Now my kids watch that episode, right.

Max

So but this this particular individual, this child, I just wrote inside of the the goals list for the next month, because every month I'll go in, and I'll have an assess, not an assessment, but a report, right? And a list of the goals according to our jam curriculum.

Max

And I said on there weird because I want him to grow, that we're going to look and start reading the Pokemon cards, I want to be able to have five of them, you understand all the words that's on them. And everything right, just as a reading exercise. Because why not? Have them love what they're doing so that they can learn it and then live it, right?

Lily

Oh, my gosh, yes, absolutely. And like, there are real reasons why everyone should learn how to read, right? Like, which I think sounds basic, but like to a six year old or seven year old, or whatever it is. Sometimes it can be like, Why would I even need to know how to do this?

Lily

So getting it in a way that they can understand it and be motivated by it and have joy in it. I think it's something we can do in pretty much any subject, you know, I find a connection to how students can really relate to it. And it's harder, but it's so worth it to see people engaged and excited about what they're learning.

Max

Yeah, definitely. And in some ways, it's harder, depending on the medium, of course. In the in a school setting, it's definitely different. But I mean, things have never been more accessible than they are now. Right? Again, we're in a technology era. So you turn on Youtube, it doesn't have to be nothing that you're watching.

Max

And this was a big piece when our children were growing up, was we wanted to test this you were talking about scientific, you know, scientific method. I love the scientific method, right? You gotta hypothesis, just test it out, and see where it goes and see what the solution is.

Max

So I had this thought that you know, children can learn anything at any age, right? This was my thought process, right? Firstly, if you can learn the English language, you can learn anything this language is it's ballistic, and you've got words that sound like certain words sometimes and not like other ones other times. Unbelievable, right?

Max

So you know, these children are learning these languages, right? So why not kind of put in some other content, right? It doesn't always have to be just cartoons and these kinds of things. If they're going to be cartoons, I want you to throw on some timetables. Sure. And then they know the timetables, yes, amazing. Amazing. Right. It's such a simple concept.

Max

So it's really never been easier in that respect. But also, you know, the one thing that I talk about a lot as well is how attention has sort of, you know, it's taken control of a lot of us even as adults as well, whether it's through social media, whether it's through the algorithms within technology that have become astounding, right.

Max

There's programs out there such as, I don't know if you've, you've kind of been following some of the news chat. GPT is one that's coming in. You can do anything these days, right? And you know, these algorithms can just figure it all out to the point where, you know, you go on YouTube, it knows what you want, right? It knows what you want to do.

Max

So how do you fight against this, and in that way, I found it to be very difficult to really fight against it. So in one way, you know, you kind of join them in some respect and provide some content. I mean, we've created our own YouTube channel as well, we've got a couple of them.

Max

But one, in particular, was actually dedicated towards skip counting, right. So skip counting, we had my kids as well coming in, and they were singing and rapping and all this stuff. And we had some music that we were making as well. And we were recording it at our house was a nice bonding moment.

Max

So we had skip counting across many of the numbers as well, and all different songs that we had sort of created. And we just threw it out there. Right? And it's just, it's nice to see who engages with it, and how we can. It's unbelievable to see, like our students, they come back to class, they're like, Hey, can we listen to the count by twos song?

Max

And then they're singing the count by two song like you before he met you? Right? So amazing. So rewarding, you know? And you know, technology allows for this for sure.

Lily

Yeah, definitely. And I love how it's like meeting kids where they already are, you know, they're on YouTube, right? So meet them there. Teach them a song, you know, connected to what they're learning and really create things that can support them there.

Max

Definitely, yeah.

Lily

I love hearing about all of that. And I would love for you to just explain a little bit more about JonAyves and how you run your tutoring center.

Max

Oh, of course. Yes. So primarily, right now we're in the southern Ontario area of Canada. Right. So we have a few cities that we're located in here. And mostly, my vision was to keep this as in person as possible, right.

Max

And the reason being is because we've been through again, pandemic, of course, everyone's online, right? Everything is Zoom. Everything is hey, you know what, let's let's do things in the timeframe of which, you know, you're not really in conversation with people in real life. Right.

Max

So I said, you know, what, let me start this out with in person, because number one, I think it's a great business move, right? Fill that need, fill that gap, right? And bring it to them. Listen, I you know, I was traveling to people's homes for the longest time, right? I still do that as well, because it's easy for them.

Max

I have locations as well that I also have them come to those who are able to, but it's not all of them. Right. So being flexible. That's one thing that this whole the last couple years has definitely encourages flexibility, right? How many times have we had our kids home, and we're supposed to be at work or can't go to work or trying to do or you better be flexible? Right.

Max

So. So in terms of our center, that's really one of the biggest things that we advocate for is flexibility. And this is in the teachings as well, right? Yes, we have a curriculum, yes, we believe that certain methods work, right. And we've seen them work. And yes, we want to stay with them. But we need to make sure that we are being flexible.

Max

I was on another podcast, actually, we had the conversation, we started diving into inquiry based learning, you know, like project based learning and direct teaching. Right?

Max

So my philosophy on that, and my thought process on that is, well, if we're gonna go ahead and say that one is better than the other, then I think we've already lost the race, right? We need to be having these teachings work in tandem. Right? They need to be working alongside each other.

Lily

And I think it's a mix, right? Like you're saying, like, there's no one right way. And there's no one kid who's like every other kid. Oh, yeah. So I think it's for sure, a mix of like.

Lily

Sometimes we talk about this actually, in our curriculum program, we just had a class last night where I was talking about, you know, there's inquiry based learning, there's project based learning, there's direct instruction, there's gradual release of responsibility, like whatever it is, you can use it, and you can mix it together. But you should just have a reason behind it. Right?

Lily

Like, sometimes we want to start with things more student led, like, explore these books, and tell me what you learned about Arctic animals, or whatever it is. And then from that, like, then the direct instruction moment of like, cool, I also want you to know X, Y, and Z.

Lily

Other things like maybe long division, you know, we're not going to put a bunch of numbers in front of kids and just like ask them to happen upon long division, like they're, maybe we're gonna be talking about a little differently.

Lily

So I think it's like the subject, the topic, the kids like, it all lends itself to different approaches. And that's kind of the beauty is that teachers get to put things together to meet the needs of an individual kid.

Max

Yeah, and kudos to those people who really can operate under those conditions. I think, for myself, I've definitely been one of those people that have not really I don't operate very well under pressure. And to be honest, it's part of the reason why I haven't really been in some scenarios or have less certain scenarios.

Max

And, you know, I can, you know, again, I say that lightly, of course, there's going to be stressful situations. And again, you're running a business, right? So it's what it is. And if you want to see success, you kind of have to buckle up a little bit, which is fine, right?

Max

But at the same time, you know, there are roads that are easier to travel as an example if you have a strong network, kind of makes the road easier, right? Instead of trying to fight your way through all kinds of information, it's a black box, you don't know. I always say it all the time, right? If you can cheat, just cheat. It's great. Right?

Max

Now I use it very lightly. Don't cheat on your tests. Anyone that's listening, do not cheat. You're just cheating yourself, right? But when it comes to, you know, you're you're looking to get ahead, you can ask people for help. This is how life works. It's great. People are willing to talk. They love talking. It's great.

Lily

Yes, absolutely. I talk about this a lot of the time with folks who are starting businesses, you know, like, go to people who have started successful businesses, and learn from them. Like don't take your random uncle's advice.

Lily

Go to the people who know what to do who have been there, and then learn from them. Like they've already figured it out to some degree, and you'll adapt it and make it your own.

Max

Yes, unless you that random uncle is, you know, Bill Gates. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Not that's not my random uncle, so.

Lily

Not mine, either. No. Awesome. Well, last question for you is kind of a two part question about starting an education business. So first off, kind of what you've learned, and then any advice for folks who are starting education businesses?

Max

Of course, yes. So the first thing I learned was a very interesting lesson, actually. And it's that not everyone is going to jump on board when you're ready. Okay, so my wife and I, we've been talking about a few things for a while. And since my, my daughter, since our daughter was eight years old, we went in and we said, let's figure out this education piece.

Max

We need them to be smart, we need them to work it out. And that's what it is. So we've been building this curriculum since day one, really, when our children were born. And we said, Okay, time to launch, let's go. And we're gonna put everything behind it, right, we adjust, you know, we just sold a property, right? We had some extra cash, we had this, we had that. It's like, Alright, we're good to go. We are going to go gung ho on this. Oh, my goodness, great, right.

Max

So in our local city, you know, we put up a billboard, we were promoting it, we put up advertisements, you know, Google ads, this, this, that, that that, and it fell flat on its face. And when I tell, you know, one person reached out, one person reached out and had an inquiry, and then it fizzled out, right.

Max

And we had spent some cash on it. Right? And again, you know, it's not like we didn't have it, but you don't really, you don't want to just spend money, it doesn't feel good to see zero results, right? So sometimes people are just not ready. But that's not a reason to give up. It's just how it goes. Right.

Max

Max

But it can't stop you from continuing. You just have to keep going. It may look like I know from a tutoring perspective as well, it may look like okay, well, do I have enough students, right? Am I Am I doing this properly? Maybe my enrollment for this month was a little bit slow for some reason, right? Don't give up on it. There's no reason to, there's still time moving forward.

Max

And the other thing that I found was the most important piece after all this marketing, right? Billboards, this that door hangers, walking around the city, and you know, whatever it was, nothing will ever beat, word of mouth.

Max

And I've learned this up from experts as well, that have that I've spoken to in many different organizations, different streams of business, that your best clients are generally just one network piece away from you. Right?

Max

Why does this happen? It's just this is how it works, right? People start to hear about certain things, your website starts to become better, keep working and iterating on your website, keep thinking about different ideas that can work because people love to see options, right? Very, very important.

Max

And I think that the more options that we can give, to be honest, the more cash your clients are going to spend, because you have them in this trance within your company. They understand that wow, this is actually a large organization, whether it is or not, right. I mean, fortunately, we've grown quite well, right, which has been fantastic. And we're able to offer more things.

Max

But listen, you don't need the money. This is the other piece. You don't need cash to make movements. Don't think that you've got to wait for money in your pocket to make movements because most of the time, you don't even need to really spend the money. And if you do, go on Fiverr go on 99 Designs. Right 10 bucks make you a whole brand.

Max

You know, so lots of things to consider there. And I'd say that those were some big learnings from my perspective when I started this. Now again, I've started previous businesses as well. So I sort of have a formula of how things work. But I think that's kind of what it is right? Don't be afraid to go for it. And you don't have to wait for money in order to start moving your business forward in your thought process.

Lily

Yes, I love that and totally agree. I mean, I think so much of it, it's just about relationships, and it's about connecting with real people. And then you can scale things, right? Like, once you're like, Alright, I got a bunch of people, you know, how do I get them, but it just starts with finding your one first customer.

Lily

And ideally, not spending a whole bunch of time or money spending that one first customer and then it's like, alright, it's like that spinning plates, you know, like, Alright, I have one customer, let me see if I can do it again. Like, let me get two customers, let me get five customers, let me get 100.

Lily

And so I think it's really just starting super scrappy, like you're saying, like, don't spend a whole bunch of money on the website, don't put up the billboards yet, you know.

Max

Please don't put up the billboards yet.

Lily

At some point, maybe but not yet. Start with the individuals see what they need. Because often it can, it will be different than what you think. And you don't know until you talk to them. And sometimes it's a really small tweak of like, oh, actually, they call this this, and I call it this, like, Oh, let me change it up.

Lily

Or providing more options that you're saying. So I think just talking to the actual people, and then creating and building from there. Not everybody is gonna want to buy what I'm offering. And that's like, great, right? That's great.

Lily

It's all about finding the people who you feel really aligned to, and that you can really help but and then really listening and honing in on those people, while also being like, it's okay, if not everyone wants what I create.

Max

Yeah, and you know, what, not everyone is built for your company. And this includes customers, it's not only those who are on your team, right? I mean, sometimes, you know, it's just not working anymore, right? Or whatever it might be, or maybe you change some policies, and it doesn't work for them. So it's what it is right?

Max

And it's okay to let go. In fact, letting go is the best way for moving on. If you don't let go, how do you move forward, right? So always be open to it. And like you said, I think you're hitting a fantastic point there listening to the people who are paying you. That's a simple concept.

Max

And honestly, if anyone ever opens their wallet, in order to give me anything, I so do not take it for granted. It's unbelievable that anyone because they could put their hard earned cash anywhere, anywhere in places that are more entertaining, right? Places that are yummier, right places that are you know, just you know that you can get better clothes or maybe other needs.

Max

But they're deciding to invest it because what I love about the tutoring business is that I know for a fact that I'm bringing such value, right? And there's nothing better than that for me, right? So if you're giving me your hard earned cash, I have to respect that and I have to be so grateful and thankful. So be thankful for those customers because they do not need to be there. They can go anywhere.

Max

And if they're choosing you, wow, like kudos to you for being able to build something that allows for that to happen. And just be grateful for it because it's it's a magical feeling when you really start to embrace that.

Lily

Yes. Awesome. I love that. So thank you so much for sharing all about your journey and what you've been creating. It's been so great talking to you. Can you share where folks can find you if they want to connect?

Max

Oh, for sure. Yes. So we're on YouTube, Instagram, Tik Tok. So, we've got a couple of channels. We've got AJs house, which is our count by numbers and nursery rhymes and whatnot. So check out you know, YouTube at AJsHouseKids. So that's Youtube, Instagram and Tik Tok.

Max

And then we also have some fun academic videos as well that we have at JonAyvesTV. And again, we've got a bunch of YouTube shorts up which are amazing. My kids are funnier than I thought, which is amazing.

Max

We've got Instagram and we've got Tik Tok there as well got the Twitter, JonAyvesTV, you can check me out on LinkedIn, you know, connect with me please Maxwell Roach on there.

Max

And then we've got our website, Jonayves.com. We've got our ebooks. It's Wow, the more I think about it, the more like I still have a lot of work to do as well. But I've got a great team as well around me. So it's been great.

Lily

Yeah, awesome. No, you've been up to a lot of great stuff. So I appreciate you sharing where folks can connect with you and again for coming on. Thank you so much.

Max

Thank you. Appreciate it.