You're posting content, you're nurturing your email list, you're showing up on stories, and somehow it all still feels like pushing a square boulder up a hill. Adam Roach knows that feeling well. He spent years lumping every audience together into one funnel, and it never worked.

In this episode, Adam and Jess break down a distinction most coaches never make: the attraction funnel and the trust funnel are two completely different systems, built for two completely different jobs. Confuse them, and you'll either come across as a salesy stranger to people who don't know you yet, or you'll under-serve the people who already trust you by treating them like cold leads.

Adam opens with the four trust tiers every coach's audience actually sits inside: Unknown, Known, Like, and Trust. He walks through his own Kia Telluride buying journey to show exactly how a person moves through those tiers in real life, and why rushing that process backfires. Jess ties it back to the "I know a guy" language from the recent Coaches #1 Problem series: if the people who already know you can't name what you do in one clean sentence, that's a bigger opportunity than any cold audience ever will be.

What you'll learn:

- The four trust tiers your entire audience already falls into (Unknown, Known, Like, Trust) and why treating them the same kills conversion

- What the "Trust Ledger" is and why deposits have to come before you ever ask for a withdrawal

- How to audit your own database in under ten minutes to find the relationships you're leaving on the table

- Why approaching strangers with an offer is the coaching equivalent of selling pink highlighters on a street corner

- The real difference between top, middle, and bottom of funnel content, and the 50/40/10 ratio that actually works

- The one filter question to ask before every post: am I trying to get seen by someone new, or trusted more by someone who already knows me?

- Why relationship-based conversion is consistently the easier, faster path to a sale than a transactional pitch ever will be

The big idea:

It's simple but easy to miss: your existing relationships are your highest-leverage, lowest-cost growth channel, and most coaches skip straight past them chasing strangers instead. Fix the order, and both funnels get easier.

Memorable Quote:

"Social media channels are meant to connect, not to convert." - Jess Webber

Resources Mentioned:

- Coaches #1 Problem Series (Ep. 187, Ep. 188)

- ILC community: ilovecoachingco.com

- Instagram: @ilovecoachingco / @adamrroach / @coachjesswebber

- YouTube: youtube.com/@ilovecoachingco

Timestamps:

[00:00] Intro: two funnels, two completely different jobs

[02:04] The four trust tiers: Unknown, Known, Like, Trust

[03:56] Adam's Kia Telluride story: how attraction becomes trust

[06:14] Tying it back to "I know a guy" language

[07:40] Where most coaches get the order backwards

[08:44] The Trust Ledger: deposits before withdrawals

[10:12] Why transactional focus shrinks your bottom tier

[11:55] Audit your database: the trust list and the engaged list

[14:05] The pink highlighter analogy: selling to strangers

[15:36] Why relationship conversion is the easier lift

[16:34] Top, middle, and bottom of funnel content, defined

[18:40] The posting filter: new eyes or deeper trust

[20:17] The 50/40/10 content ratio

[21:32] Breaking the habit of selling on social media

[24:26] Wrap up and where to go next

Ready to stop guessing which funnel you're even in? The ILC community is where coaches go to build the relationships and the systems that actually convert. ilovecoachingco.com

Jess, today we are going to talk about funnels.

What? We don't talk about funnels.

We do talk about funnels. And we're going to talk about two different,

completely different funnels and what you guys are thinking today.

We're going to talk about an attraction funnel and a trust funnel.

An attraction funnel and a relationship funnel.

Right? What is the difference between those two types of funnels?

And today we're going to uncover those because I guarantee you.

You guys are running one funnel here and you're mixing it all together.

We're gonna solve that for you today.

Well, I think it's because, you know,

we hear funnel and we automatically assume one thing and don't understand that

it can be applied applied to multiple situations or in multiple ways.

And so I think when we lump it together,

it actually complicates things and and it

Mm-hmm.

makes it feel like we're either further behind or we're missing things.

And so

By kind of clarifying the two that we're talking about in this episode,

I actually hope that will it will alleviate some of the pressure that people

are feeling when they can kind of understand

Yes.

and like simply and clearly separate them out.

Well, and and that's that's so good because it's this is this is a topic that

I absolutely love. And I'm gonna tell you why.

Is because I lumped these together for so stinking long,

and it truly was the feeling of pushing a boulder up a mountain that was square.

Not

Hmm.

round, it was square. It's like,

my gosh, why is this so hard, right?

And it is, let's break this down into into four categories.

Four categories of people.

And and you call this your database,

you can call whatever you want,

but there's four four cra categories we're gonna talk about.

Unknown, they don't know you, you don't know them.

Known, these are people that maybe know you,

you maybe know them, but they don't really know what you do.

Like, these are people that are engaging with you.

They're they're they know what you do,

and they're engaging with you,

but they're not to trust you. And trust is gonna be the one where they

are trusting you to.

Convert, right? Trusting you in one way,

shape, or form, specifically to the coaching space of coming to an event,

coming to a webinar, coming to a masterclass,

a challenge, or maybe even one-to-many or a one-to-one opportunity that

you are offering. So we need to identify those four first,

Jess.

Well, I think you did a great job there.

And I think the the reason that you said that you felt like you were trying

to push a boulder up the hill that was square was because you felt

the pressure of anything that you did in an attraction space,

anything that you did in a relationship space,

all surrounding the idea of moving somebody from one tier to the next.

And and

Mm-hmm. Right.

that is a very heavy load.

To bear, especially if you're looking at a massive,

you know, top of funnel in terms or massive unknown space,

right? Every person in the world technically falls into that.

And you're like, how do I get more people to trust me?

That that just feels very heavy.

And so that's why I like to kind of separate this.

And you set it up beautifully at the beginning of the episode.

There's a very big difference between the trust tiers,

which is people who are aware of you,

and then the audience.

funnel of people who are unknowns or not aware of you that you're trying

to be like grow into a trust space with.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, you know, th this is this is gonna be a a silly,

silly, silly, silly, not probably not even a right example,

but I'm gonna go down the path.

And and by the way, no offense to anybody who has this type of vehicle,

but I'm gonna go with this example.

Remember when the Kia what what is the fame like the the fancy

The soul or the like the cube.

no no no no

they like the the SUV that came out maybe like four or five years ago.

what was that?

Tell you ride? I think it was a tell you ride.

Okay, tell

okay.

you ride. Okay. So this first of all,

I didn't know anything about Kia brand.

I didn't, I just thought maybe it was I didn't know anything about Kia,

right?

Mm-hmm.

And then I started to see these commercials and I started to see this vehicle show

it up more and more and more. And they were kind of attractive.

And I was soon to be in the market for a new vehicle.

And then one of my buddies got one.

And he's like,

Mm-hmm.

hey, you gotta check this thing out.

This is like

High tech, low cost, and it serves the purpose for my family.

I was like, great, great. Kids were young.

I throw tennis gear in there, gets whatever.

We got sand everywhere from surfing.

So I went and looked at it. So again,

I didn't know anything about this brand.

Okay. We're gonna call that unknown.

~

Mm-hmm.

I had someone say, hey, you maybe should check it out.

Okay, we're getting a little bit closer to known.

I go to the dealership. Okay, so now we're trying to move from unknown to known,

now down to like. And here was the kicker of this.

I actually got to see the vehicle in person.

Thought it was really cool. And I didn't know if I was gonna pull the trigger

on one or not, but they didn't have they had a wait list of seven months.

Yeah.

So that ruined my trust here because I needed something relatively soon.

But I I I walk through that and that opened my eyes to wow,

that brand is relevant. That brand does have quality,

and that brand is now building its reputation,

right? For me

Mm-hmm.

to eventually one day trust it.

now I'm I haven't bought one. but that just kind of popped into my head

as I was thinking about this because how are people looking at you?

Right? What are they thinking as they go through this process of how

are you showing up in their world as it relates to attraction?

And then

Mm-hmm.

how are you building trust?

Well, and I'm gonna circle back to the series we just did.

if you haven't already listened

Mm.

to the last three episodes on coaches number one problems,

I would highly go recommend going back there.

Because we finished that series out with this concept of you have to have very clear

specific language to the point of like,

Yes.

Hey, I know a guy if somebody names a problem.

So Adam had a problem of a car and your buddy was like,

Hey, I know a car, right? You have to

That's right.

be the same space.

So that way the people who are in relationship with you that are in your trust world

of some whatever tier it is, they think of you clearly when that problem

is named and they trust you enough that they can move along those tiers

in time because there is clarity there.

And I think a lot of people try to become the guy

to the unknowns first and ignore all of the relationships that they already have.

And that is probably, I mean, we could almost make this a fourth episode

of the number one problem is people trying to go at the wrong funnel first.

Because if you're building a coaching business,

everybody that you know should know that you're the guy that does the thing.

And if they don't know that you're the guy that does the thing and that

you solve this problem, then that's a massive opportunity to grow

in trust and convert people higher and faster.

Yep, very true.

Most of the time

we see coaches come in, they get very excited about the language

and they go straight to unknown attraction space.

Yep. Yep. Now now I wanna go back to the four groupings.

Unknown,

Mm-hmm.

known, like, and trust. Okay. And I'm gonna lay in the word trust as someone that

is maybe no, no, someone that has spent money with you.

That's what I'm gonna that's what I'm gonna define that as.

Trust is someone that's spent money with you.

And I'm gonna get to that point here in second.

And I don't care what type of money that is,

whether that's time, whether that's no no,

I'm gonna say true currency there.

They've spent money with you one way or another.

Now, let's go up to the previous level there.

And that is like you. That means they're engaging with you.

All right, so I'm just gonna take those two groupings.

With the trust tier funnel, we have to build relationships,

not transactional approach,

Oof. Yeah.

right? Relationships,

let's think about this. If someone has spent money with you.

And you throw them into the funnel of someone that is in your database that

you don't know them because you I don't know,

you scrape their data from some interwebs and you combine those

and they're both getting the same content.

I don't like it. Okay, that's just

No.

me. I don't like it. Why? Because that grouping of like and trust should

be in what we talk about as the trust ledger.

What's the

Mm-hmm.

trust ledger?

The trust ledger is what type of deposits are you making into these people

so that you can have a withdrawal?

What's a withdrawal? Withdrawal is an ask.

Would you like to attend? Would you like to send me a referral?

Would you like to come to my one-on-one or my one-to-many,

whatever it is, right? But if you are not developing relationships with your likes

and your trusts

Mm-hmm.

through different mechanisms of communication,

different from the unknowns to knowns.

This is where it looks like and feels like to push that boulder up

the mountain that is a square boulder versus a round boulder because you're

not building relationships. You're trying to be transactional.

Why do I get so excited about this?

Because that was me. That was me for so long as I was so transactional that

I wanted to transact.

I wanted to transact a sale versus build a relationship.

And that's why my bottom tier was so small.

It's because I was so transactional.

Well, and when you focus on a transaction,

you're not focusing on relationships,

which means you're not focusing on being known as the guy who solves the problem.

You're just being known as a salesman.

That's right. That's right.

Or, you know,

your call sign spam, right? And and

Mm-hmm.

that's the big differentiator here is you are gonna behave differently

in a relationship space than in an unknown space.

And so

Totally.

to to kind of put a bow on the the trust to your side.

is if people know you and you want to deepen the relationship to grow your business,

focus on value first,

deposits first, as Adam was saying from Trust Ledger Language,

and really just pour into them and grow the relationship so that they

are ready to invest with you when the timing is right and there's alignment

for what you're offering because you've got clear language and

it fits their problems. Now

That's right. Yeah.

We also know that people want to grow their businesses.

And so you might have really amazing clear language.

You've got relationships. You're known in your like your phone contacts.

If I dialed one randomly, they could at least probably give me a vague answer

of Jess is the person that does the thing.

You've spent time nurturing who you know.

When you want to grow and you want to lean into the unknowns,

this is a totally different behavior space.

And again, it still is gonna.

play into the trust ledger piece of we're not asking for things first,

but the behaviors of how you connect and how you turn somebody into an unknown

to a relationship is is a big thing.

And so that's what I wanted to

Yes.

spend a little bit of time on the second half of this episode.

Mm-hmm. So let's let's do that.

Because here's here's what I want everyone to do who's listening right now.

Is take your take your take your database and let's look at

the trust group right now. Right?

You should go audit the trust group.

And here's what I mean by audit.

Everybody and anybody, let's just take this year as an example,

who has spent money with you, needs to be in the trust category.

They trusted you with their time.

They've trusted you with their money.

That should be a list. Then let's go to the people who are engaging with you.

This is going to be a probably a larger list,

right? These are people that have had a conversation with you that didn't convert.

These are people that have DM'd you back and forth,

right? These are people that they haven't moved that trust space,

but they've engaged with you. That's gonna be a longer list.

Those two groupings is where we build continued relationships.

Now, to Jess, what you want to do is go into the unknowns and knowns.

And that is something where we need to spend more time because,

well, your conversion rates will either increase or decrease based on

the number of people that you have in each one of these groups.

And you do have to have an unknown and known group.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well,

I mean, unless you're just friends with everybody in the world,

I don't think you're going to hit whatever goals you set for your business with only

the people in your phone. And so that's why it's it's top grading your activities

by focusing on your relationships first,

but then you have to go out and lead generate essentially for new relationships.

And so what we want to talk about in the attraction space or the audience space

is those unknowns that we're trying to grow in relationship with.

And that

Yes.

is the the interesting thing is because if you are somebody

who transactionally thinks, then when you go out into the unknown world,

you are gonna show up as the salesy spammer,

sleazy car use car salesman type behavior.

I'm just looking for a sale. And that is not the way to relate to strangers ever.

Mm-mm. Yeah. My my my favorite as I as I teach this,

as I coach this, I don't know why,

but I always pull up if you're watching this on YouTube.

I pull up this pink marker right here.

Now, come well this time of year is the US Open,

the tennis world, and we usually go to New York,

but this this year we we don't get to go.

But I I take this as an example.

It's like walking down 47th and Lexington in k in

In Manhattan, and I have this pink highlighter,

Jess, and I'm coming around the corner and you don't know me,

but I don't know you either. And we run into each other.

I'm like, hey, I have a pink highlighter.

Wanna buy it? And you're like,

who the hell are you? Get out of here.

No, I don't want to buy it. That's what it's like to sell to an unknown person.

They don't know you. You don't know them.

But yet you've got a pretty pink highlighter that you want to sell to them.

They don't care.

And and what's so crazy is that's what we see so many people doing,

especially on channels on like social media,

even from stages or on podcasts or things,

is they start with the sale opportunity.

They start with what

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

they believe is value, but they haven't connected with the person to figure

out if the value they're offering is something that that person actually needs

or wants. And so that's why.

When you're approaching the unknown space,

it's better to look for connection points to convert to relationships than

it is to convert to transactions.

That's right. Yep. Very, very true.

Relationship conversion is an easier lift,

you guys. It's an easier lift.

Why? Because buyers buy just because why?

They want to.

Mm-hmm.

Right? Not because you convince them.

Not because your hair looks good or you got great glasses on,

right? That's not why they buy.

They buy because they want to.

So you can't convince them. So stop trying to convince them and build

a relationship with them. Right?

Build a relationship.

Yeah,

please don't be Adam in an alley with a trench coat trying to sell watches

in Manhattan or pink highlighters.

No, and and so I I love that.

No, pink highlighters. Yeah. Pink highlighters.

What am I gonna start made that says I sell pink highlighters?

~ yeah.

~ but I but

it goes back to also your behaviors in the unknown space.

And so that's where again I just I feel like we have to cover this because

if I went to any new coaches sales page or even established coaches that are

in it a while, but they're not hitting their metrics.

I would guarantee

Mm-hmm.

that they have more pink highlighter posts than they do connection posts

Yes. All day long. Mm-hmm.

in their content.

And so, you know, if you lean into social media coaching or things like that,

they will always tell you that you need to have more top of funnel content than

bottom of funnel content. So I want to clarify what those mean,

specifically in the audience funnel or attraction funnel space,

so that everybody understands where I'm coming from.

so top of funnel is.

A few key content pillars that make you as an,

you know, whole person, a whole thing.

It's interest. So, you know, Adam's pillars,

faith, family, fitness, coaching would probably be the top four,

right? Mine are a little bit quirkier,

but I've got, you know, my family and my the way my brain functions,

my love of books, as well as my business,

Mm-hmm. Yep.

which is big ideas made simple.

And so,

My content is not always big ideas made simple.

Adams is not always I love coaching because that would

Right. Nope.

be bottom of funnel, very specific niched stuff.

Top of funnel is, look, this is my kid dancing.

look, I'm making fun of being ADHD and how many thoughts I have when I look

at a watermelon. Like, I mean,

whatever the thing is, it's relatable top of funnel,

broad audience stuff. Then

Right.

middle of funnel is a little bit more specific to you.

So how does ADHD show up in my business might be more specific,

but I'm not talking about big ideas made simple.

I'm just saying, I'm an entrepreneur.

you know, I have I operate with 47 tabs open at all times.

I get a little bit more specific,

a little bit closer to it. Maybe I have 47 coaching tabs open,

you know, or something like that.

But again, it's not a call to action.

It's not, I'm speaking about big ideas made simple in this offer that I have.

It is still.

kind of in that middle world. And then the bottom of funnel is truly that.

And so I I feel like I've talked a lot,

but the the key

Well, but

no, you you you you had a good you had good language here,

the filter, right? Your your and your filter quote was before you post,

ask, am I trying to get seen by someone new or trusted more

by someone who already knows me?

Right.

Mm.

That's such a great question to ask yourself before you go post,

is this content for someone new,

or is this content for someone to trust me more?

And and that's so so so so good.

And you you finished, you said if you don't know which one you're doing,

you're doing neither well. And that's that's so well pointed out.

Because that means you're posting to post and you're not posting

to build relationships and you're you may be posting for transactional

and you're probably making the post about you and and that's just that's just

not going to work long term.

Well, I think I think having any filter of a why am I posting this matters because

if your why is I want to connect with more of my people or more people that

are like me that could eventually use me,

connect with me, grow with me,

then you're in the right spot.

But if you're posting for vanity metrics,

then that's not gonna benefit you at all.

Like I'm sorry, but views and exposure mean nothing if it's not to the right people.

And so the key there is a connection filter piece.

And with that, you're gonna connect to more people faster with top

of funnel than bottom of funnel.

And so

That's right.

if you were if I was gonna give you a math equation,

I know pre algebra is so much fun,

but X, Y, and Z equal a hundred percent,

top of funnel, I would say fifty plus percent is top of funnel,

entertaining, broad, wide spectrum stuff.

40% middle of funnel, a little bit more niche,

a little bit more specific, so people can grow in their understanding of you.

And then bottom of funnel, less than 10%.

Like you can make offers, you can talk about your business specifically,

like lessons learned in building big ideas made simple is a great example because

it's specific to the business,

but it's still creating trust,

not just saying DM me if you want to join my group,

right?

Transactional. Mm-hmm.

It's so transactional. And and I I

say all of this because we've been having these conversations.

I I did a challenge where they were talking about top,

middle, and bottom of funnel. And I've been watching several of

my coaching friends who are not in the ILC world spend 80 plus percent

of their time putting out bottom of funnel content and then being frustrated by it.

And I'm like, I

Sure. Yeah.

love you, but I don't know how else I can say this to you more bluntly than I've

said it to you of.

Why are you doing that? Is that working for you?

Like, you know. Right.

Right. Well, they know it's not working for them.

Right?

H here's here's what happens. We know it's not working for us.

I'll never forget when we were running the summits and I hired a guy,

I can't remember from what group I hired him from,

but it doesn't matter. And he was like,

Stop selling on Instagram. And I'm like,

I don't know how to stop selling on Instagram,

right? And it's just because that was the the the cloth that I was cut from

and the same breath, it it didn't work.

Right.

It it it didn't work. Why? Because I was being transactional,

not building trust and people didn't care.

You are trying to use a social platform as a sales platform,

and that is the problem

That's correct.

right there. If you

Yep.

want to sell, then you're not thinking about this the right way in a coaching space.

Social media channels are meant to connect,

not to convert. And y'all have to think about this so differently,

but it makes it so much easier if you go into this and be like,

what's funny to me? What's entertaining to me?

What's inspirational to me that I could share?

and attract more people who also think it's funny or inspirational.

And when you do that, you're gonna find your people,

which eventually will lead to conversions and sales and all the other things that

are a downstream effect because you've built an authentic relationship with them

through the attraction space first.

Right. Yep. Totally. And you've gotta internalize that though.

Right? You you've got to internalize that because again,

I'm I'm a recovering sales addict.

And if you don't internalize that,

you'll go back to trying to sell.

And

Yeah.

that is true. It was hard for me to break that cycle,

that pattern, that

I need to go transact. I need to go transact.

I need to go transact when I should be building relationships.

When I should be having content that is that.

It's relational. Right? It's the making deposits.

But here's the thing is when you are yeah,

If we're talking if we're talking that as a channel.

but here's the thing when you're intentional about hey,

I just want to go make sure that everybody knows that I'm the person that does

the thing, I'm the guy, it changes so much for you because I've actually

had more conversions and more sales by trying to build relationships than

I ever have through trying to find dollars.

I make more money when I am intentionally focused on one thing rather than trying

to do all these

Public.

other things. So how do you do this?

You make sure the people that know you already know that you're the

guy that does the thing. And then you go find new people that are your people

who also need to know that you're the guy that does the thing.

Done.

Nailed it. Nailed it.

Nailed it. Done. Okay, land the plan.

Good job, Jess. I'm done. Ready to go.

Good.

Hey,

as always, if this is something that you found valuable,

let us know. You know, you can find Adam and I on socials or reach out

to us via ILovecoachingco.com.

We've got a couple live events coming up that we would love to help you with this

in person at, if that's something,

or we've got our membership always running and going,

where we do this live every week on a Zoom call.

yeah.

You can get feedback, you can connect with our other coaches,

and you don't have to do this alone.

That's right. Perfect. Thanks,

Jess. See you guys. Bye.

Ai.