Trauma recovery, nervous system healing, and emotional healing for midlife women are possible at any age. In this powerful conversation, psychiatrist Dr. Risley Childs explains how trauma lives in the body, affects high-achieving women, and how trauma recovery and nervous system healing can begin even decades later.

Many midlife women live in chronic fight-or-flight without realizing trauma recovery is needed. Dr. Childs shares how trauma recovery works, how trauma affects the nervous system, and why trauma recovery is possible regardless of your past.

If you’ve experienced divorce, emotional stress, burnout, or chronic anxiety, this episode will help you understand trauma recovery, nervous system healing, and how to begin healing your trauma safely.

This episode offers hope, science, and practical understanding for trauma recovery and midlife healing.

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction to trauma recovery and midlife healing

(02:15) Dr. Childs’ medical background and journey into psychiatry

(05:32) How trauma affects high-achieving women

(09:10) Fight-or-flight and nervous system dysregulation explained

(13:40) How childhood environments shape adult behavior

(18:20) Why trauma lives in the body, not just the mind

(23:10) The vagus nerve and nervous system healing

(28:45) Healing trauma later in life — why it’s not too late

(34:10) Rest, healing, and breaking hyper-achievement patterns

Key Takeaways:

• Trauma often shows up as achievement, people-pleasing, and chronic stress

• Trauma lives in the nervous system and body, not just the mind

• Fight-or-flight states can persist for decades without awareness

• Healing trauma is possible at any age, including midlife

• Rest and nervous system regulation are critical components of healing

Guest Bio:

Dr. Risley Childs is a board-certified psychiatrist with over 30 years of clinical experience. She specializes in trauma recovery, nervous system healing, and helping high-achieving women understand and heal from the long-term effects of trauma.

Resource Links:

Website and Social Media links: https://www.drrisleychilds.com/

to awaken your vagus nerve: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3VuPpgmSPwk7cErnqrNhCH?si=a3824002e9774659

To calm your vagus nerve: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3YC0zMSeGQRqg4XmscoyCG?si=d1b93c15519f4ecc

African Drums: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5z2d4y9MXXjQQiYC8c46Fk?si=10b08e8109634214

Amazon weighted hula hoop: https://a.co/d/06DXlzwC

Tags/Keywords:

trauma recovery, nervous system healing, midlife healing, emotional trauma healing, trauma and nervous system, trauma recovery podcast, women over 40 healing, trauma therapy, divorce trauma healing, fight or flight healing, emotional recovery midlife, psychiatrist interview trauma, Doing Life Different podcast, trauma recovery women

Hi, friends.

2

I'm so thankful that you're here today.

3

I know I say this all the time, but

this episode is so special to me.

4

Um, it was one of those episodes

that just got lost in time.

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I just was having this

amazing conversation with Dr.

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Wisely Childs.

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She's a psychiatrist.

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We went on and on and on, and it

lasted an hour, and I'm like, I can't

9

put this whole thing up in an hour

because nobody's ever used to that.

10

For goodness sakes, my saddle up lives

are always like five to 10 minutes.

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So I've cut this in half.

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Today's episode, we're going to

hear from this amazing woman, the

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psychiatrist, and we're gonna hear

about nervous system healing and

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emotional healing, and it's really

geared toward midlife women, but really.

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Age.

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So it's um, it's all about.

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The, the vagus nerve and, and

healing trauma later in life.

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And here's what I want you to know.

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It's hopeful because she is hopeful and

she wants you to know that you can heal.

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So we dig into all things.

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I kind of felt like this

was my Joe Rogan moment.

22

She was talking a little bit about

psychedelics and how they have helped

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her and we really, really dug in.

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And so today's episode's gonna

really talk about trauma and

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then I'm gonna leave you hanging.

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Because next week on Tuesday, we

hear her story and I am not kidding.

27

You're not gonna believe it.

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It's, it's bananas and it,

she went through some really

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unbelievably hard, difficult things.

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Things that are kind

of hard for me to hear.

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But that's next week.

32

This week.

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Tune in, learn about the

trauma, get to know Dr.

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Dawn Marie, and then jump

back in next week because it

35

is, it's one of my favorite.

36

I love doing these, these podcasts.

37

But this, if you are going through

something hard like divorce.

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Or if you have had trauma in your

past, I mean, it's all of us.

39

You need to listen.

40

Thanks for being here.

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I.

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Speaker: Welcome listeners.

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I've got a treat for you today.

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I'm so excited.

45

I've done a little bit of

homework, but I've got Dr.

46

Risley Childs with me.

47

Dawn Marie is her beautiful name.

48

I don't know what I'm gonna

throw at you, Dawn Marie.

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I never know what I'm gonna

call someone, but that medical

50

doctor, doctor is a big deal.

51

And I say that because I've got my

baby girl who has gone through it.

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She's a pediatrician.

53

Mm-hmm.

54

So I always wanna thank the

doctors that come on this.

55

So Dawn Marie is a psychiatrist

and she deals a lot with trauma.

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Yeah.

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And I think my li, my listeners are

like women going through midlife crisis.

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A lot of them divorce because I am

a divorce attorney, kind of turned

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mediator trying to help women.

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Um.

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Know that they can heal.

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And I think Don Marie,

that's your message too.

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Speaker 2: Yes,

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Speaker: absolutely.

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Know that you can heal.

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And so I'm so excited to get into the

trauma piece because when I studied you

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a little bit, I heard you kind of talking

about how I know, like I was always a real

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tired, you know, during my days and how

that can, and I was always like, boy, I

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can't do as much as that mom over there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker: And you said that that can have

to do with trauma and that we can heal it.

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And I think that's the key.

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Yeah.

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We can heal.

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And so we're gonna really dig into that.

76

But because you're a medical doctor,

that's a huge calling and you've

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been doing it for a long time.

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I wanna hear, can you just share your

story, what led you to do this work

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that you're doing now to help people?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, um,

so yes, I am a physician.

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I've been practicing

medicine for 30 years.

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I am a board certified psychiatrist.

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I didn't always wanna be a psychiatrist.

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I went into medicine to be an OB GYN

and, uh, after delivering 80 babies

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between my sub internship, my fourth

year of med school and my internship,

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uh, getting right out of, uh, medical

school, uh, I was sitting in the light

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handle waiting for the, or sitting in

the jug handle, waiting for the light

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to turn green, and I was exhausted.

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And I said, I don't, this sucks.

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I don't think third

Saturday that I was on call.

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I'm like, this, this is so exhausting.

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And I didn't have the stamina.

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I knew that I didn't have the

stamina, but at that point I

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didn't know what I wanted to do.

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And then psychiatry just kind of

fell in my lap and I loved it.

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And you know, I went forth there.

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Um, but as far as trauma

goes, I mean, in reality it's.

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It's a natural fit because, um,

well, my entire family is, um, quite

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pathological and it's very pathological.

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I laugh about it now, but, uh, so I did

grow up with a very pathological family.

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And the real question is, is why

am I not a forensic psychiatrist?

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Yeah.

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Um, and uh, the reason why is

because, well, I crashed my

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parachute and injured my head.

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And it took me eight hours to

get my CV done the next day.

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And I just, I did, I could not think

to do the process of, um, all the

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paperwork to apply for the fellowship.

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It was my final year in residency.

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And so, um, that took a while to heal.

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It took a good two years.

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I had a post, oh,

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Speaker: wait a minute.

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You crashed your

parachute, like I crashed.

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Like, you're not lying.

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You really were parachuting and

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Speaker 2: crash.

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Yeah.

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Oh yeah.

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I have, I have two,

yeah, I have 289 jumps.

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Uh, one from a helicopter,

the rest from airplanes.

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I've had, I've jumped out of I think

seven different airplanes of, out

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of California, Connecticut, New

Jersey and New York and Florida.

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And, um, yeah, I've traveled around

the country a little bit, jumping out

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of airplanes and it's a lot of fun.

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Speaker: I, I need to jump in, I

gotta ask more about this because

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I am not a parachute jumper.

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I'm a little bit afraid of

heights and I, I'm so intrigued.

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What draws you to that, to that jump?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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So it was something that I had

wanted to do since I was a teenager.

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I grew up outside of Philadelphia and they

had a newscaster, Jim O'Brien, who was

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the weatherman, and he started skydiving.

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And then after he started skydiving,

they, he produced a show called Primetime.

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And, um, he introduced

the country to skydiving.

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Like he put it out there on television.

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And, and then he did all kinds

of other adventurous stuff.

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And it was just this big, um,

fun, adventurous kind of show.

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And I always liked it.

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And I remember when Jim died,

Jim died in a parachute crash.

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Oh.

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Um, yeah.

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I, and.

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All of Philadelphia area,

greater area was just devastated.

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I still remember watching the

news and having them announce

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that and um, and there used to be

something called drop zone.com.

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It was a forum for jumpers.

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And I remember having discussions

about it, about Jim O'Brien, and

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this is what made me wanna jump.

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And so it was really, I had turned

35 and I was in my final year of

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residency and I said, what do I enjoy?

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Because life was, up to that

point, was nothing but work.

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Mm-hmm.

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And what I did that I

enjoyed was, uh, shopping.

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Watching movies, you

know, on my VCR back then.

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Speaker: I know.

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Speaker 2: And so, and I, um, and

I came to a point where I said,

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well, who am I gonna meet shopping?

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Well, gay men and married men.

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So,

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and who am I gonna meet?

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You know, who am I gonna

meet watching movies?

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Well, the delivery boy from the

local Chinese place on a bicycle.

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You know, I was living in the Bronx.

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It was kind of right.

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So, um, and then I decided I'm

gonna do something that I enjoy.

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And I started jumping and it was,

uh, oh, it was the greatest thing I

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think that I've ever done as far as,

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you know, you jump and all of your

worries just get washed away with

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the air, with the, it's an air bath.

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And it was just amazing.

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And it was, um, it was the most

free that I think I've ever felt.

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And there were times where I was under

canopy where I just said, I feel so free.

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Yeah.

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Speaker: Okay.

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I'm taking notes on this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker: Um, and that's, so I feel like if

I jumped out off, I'd have a heart attack.

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Speaker 2: Like what happens?

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We had a skydiver.

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He was, he was interesting.

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I, I'm sorry his name escapes me,

but he had, um, Johnny something.

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Johnny Jo, I think it was, no, not Johnny.

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Love it Was Johnny something.

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He, he was, I think in his sixties

and it was down in, um, he was

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kind of an icon of a skydiver.

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Everybody knew who he was and I knew

who he was and I had never met him.

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But I saw a picture of him and

I knew right away who it was.

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And, uh, he had, um.

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He had the last jump of the day, the

sunset dive, and he did what's known

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as an eight way where he jumps with

seven other friends and they all get

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together and they, you know, do stuff.

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And the last, what everyone said was,

um, that the last time they saw him

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was he was, uh, you know, he turned

and then, uh, tracked to the sunset

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and um, and they found him, uh, on

Skydiver Lane, uh, in the soft sand,

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uh, under his, uh, emergency canopy.

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And so he died tracking

away into the sunset.

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And, you know, we as Skydivers were

like, oh, that's how we all wanna go.

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You know, that's just such, so beautiful

and poignant way to go that you go.

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We, we didn't look at it as a tragedy.

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We looked at it as we're all gonna die.

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Die doing what you love, but not

tragically like he had a heart attack.

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: So he didn't die

of a skydiving accident.

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He died of a heart attack

doing what he loved.

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Wow.

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And, uh, it was so beautiful.

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It, it made it to Paul Harvey.

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Paul Harvey talked

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Speaker: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Even know how it was special.

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That was so, yeah.

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It was pretty amazing.

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Speaker: I think, I think what is amazing

me, when I look at you, I just think it's

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so amazing how we're all so different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker: And, and maybe not really,

because here's the interesting thing,

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like, I think about, honest to God, I

have not started thinking about how I

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need freedom Uhhuh until like a year ago.

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Yeah.

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I was so wrapped up in white, knuckling

it and doing everything right.

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And all of a sudden I'm like, what?

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I just like, let me just,

you know what I mean?

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Like, leave me alone

here for a little bit.

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I wanna go do my thing.

225

Um, I don't think I would be

drawn to ever jumping out of a

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plane because I think that that's

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Speaker 2: okay.

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You don't have to be

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Speaker: Yeah.

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But I do have horses.

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I do this in my

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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You feel free when you're galloping.

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Right.

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And lemme tell, I think that's probably

more dangerous than skydiving is you,

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Speaker: there is

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Speaker 2: raise of horses.

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Speaker: There is a little bit of fear

involved of course in that, because

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I don't do it that much anymore.

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And it's so funny.

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Donmar, I think I've talked about this

before, but I remember like the last time

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I was, had this old horse that, that I got

to ride at the barn and I was cantering.

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I felt like, oh.

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I'm a relat model, you know what I mean?

245

Yeah.

246

But they video this and they videoed it.

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It was not anything like

what I, I'm like, oh,

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I should video it

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Speaker 2: that,

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but hey, you had fun in your mind.

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I did that way And that's how you

felt and that's what's important.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And I love that life is messy.

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It's okay to be messy and messy is sexy.

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So

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that's what my coach tells me.

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I love

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Speaker: it.

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I love it.

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But I love that at age 35, um, you had

the, the thought of, what do I enjoy?

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Because I didn't really

start questioning that.

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I still am questioning that.

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Yeah.

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And I'm, you know, 58 years old.

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And what I have learned in my, going

through my things in life is I think the

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thing that I've been missing the most of.

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Is joy.

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Speaker 2: Is joy

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Speaker: just like fun?

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Like what?

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What's fun?

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And, and some of it's your mindset like,

ooh, I love to play with my grandchildren,

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so if I'm babysitting them, we don't.

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It's just like in my head,

it's not babysitting.

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I get to go have some

fun and play right now.

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Speaker 2: Exactly.

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Speaker: You know?

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So part of it is my mindset about it too.

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But, um, I don't know how we got

off on this subject when we're

280

talking about trauma, but I'm

sure it's part of the journey.

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I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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And you know, the thing about the

children, what you're experiencing

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is the, is the Jo de right?

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Those kids have it had all of Yes.

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You know.

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The crack bags of life put on them.

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So they are

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Speaker: crack bags of life.

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Let's use that as

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Speaker 2: I talk real.

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I'm from New Jersey.

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We usually talk worse actually.

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I'm just, you know, 13.

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You know, you're looking at, you're

looking at life through their eyes

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and because you're looking at life

through their eyes, you're able to have

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that wonder again about what life is.

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And so it becomes therapeutic.

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I mean that, that's the whole

purpose of grandchildren's.

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We can experience our children again

and we can experience life again.

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Yeah.

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And you know, that is the beautiful thing

about having another generation behind us.

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Speaker: Yeah.

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Well, okay.

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I gotta tell a cute story

about my little joie uhhuh.

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So she's just one and a half or something.

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She's so cute.

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And she's got me grandma now.

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My husband's like retiring, so he's

getting a little more involved.

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My parents, she's got her great

grandparents and her other grandparents,

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and we all kind of, her mom's a nurse

and we all just kind of trade off.

312

And I noticed the other day when

she got up from the floor, she

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went, she does the old woman grunt

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Speaker 2: they're supposed to do.

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Yes, I know.

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Speaker: So I.

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Speaker 2: They're, they're learning

about life just by, and, and you know,

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it's kind of empathetic too, right?

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Yeah.

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Like they know that you're sore

and they're being sore for you.

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They're taking on a little bit of that.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Speaker: It's so cute.

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It's so cute.

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But I love that we get to learn

about the wonder of what life

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is from our grandchildren.

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Yeah.

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Okay, so now let's talk.

330

So my listeners, like I said, there

are a lot of women like midlife

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going through a crisis like divorce.

332

Um, that's a big trauma.

333

Oh yeah.

334

But I think too, a lot of us have just

carried traumas through our lives.

335

And when you say your family

was, what did you say?

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Pathologic?

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Speaker 2: Pathological, yeah.

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Speaker: Yes.

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Um,

340

Speaker 2: pathology.

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Yeah.

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Speaker: Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I think, I think it's probably true.

345

I think, I mean, the world is a

lot of confused people just trying

346

to figure things out, right?

347

Mm-hmm.

348

So I think we all have some trauma.

349

Maybe not everyone does.

350

I don't know.

351

In my world.

352

Speaker 2: Trauma's common.

353

It's very common.

354

And the thing is, the effect

of trauma is always the same.

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Speaker: Okay.

356

Talk about that.

357

What is the effect of trauma?

358

Speaker 2: Well, the effect of trauma

is, is how do you show up in the world?

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How are you vigilant?

360

How are you, um, how intrusive

thoughts about that trauma?

361

Uh, always having to think

about it, ruminating on it.

362

It's the last thing you think about

before you go to bed is the first thing

363

you think about when you get up in the

morning and even when you're doing the

364

dishes, you're still thinking about it.

365

Your brain is stuck in that area,

but it's not just your brain.

366

Your body is stuck in that area.

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Two, there's something

called the vagus nerve.

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It is a three branch nerve.

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It goes in the front of your

body and the back of your body.

370

And when you are traumatized,

that gets stuck in that

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fight or flight or that fawn.

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Mode and, uh, people who have experienced

some kind of especially chronic trauma,

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that nerve is stuck in that position and

you can never get out and it's exhausting.

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Speaker: Okay.

375

So I gotta ask you something

and, and I'm sorry to jump in.

376

So I've been through traumatic events.

377

Mm-hmm.

378

But I feel like even before that

I was always in fight or flight.

379

I always, but I didn't have like a certain

thing that had happened that I kept

380

thinking, oh, this is why I am like this.

381

But when I woke up in the morning,

I thought about it was like

382

hyper achiever, people pleaser.

383

Speaker 2: Yeah.

384

Speaker: You know, went to law school,

ran marathons, just like all this

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hard stuff because I, and never really

connected closely with anyone because

386

I thought I always had to impress Yes.

387

But I don't remember there being a

traumatic event that led me to that.

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Does that make sense?

389

Is that the chronic piece?

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Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't have to be

quote, a traumatic event to get there.

391

And this is what the work that I'm doing

with physician women as their coach is

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What I'm doing is I'm looking at, um,

the very beginning when they first had,

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when they first realized that they had

to show up for someone else or they were

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responsible for someone else's emotions,

or where did you learn that to be a, where

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did you learn to be a people pleaser?

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And some of the women that I work with

think back to early childhood when

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mom was working, dad was working and

there were, there was no one around.

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And the only way I am going to get

attention is either I do something

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very bad or I do something very good.

400

And then I may, you know, get

praises and what are we gonna

401

do to make my parents happy?

402

Make my mom happy, and

get my dad's attention.

403

And well, maybe I'm gonna go out

and I'm gonna learn, you know,

404

my dad likes to play cards.

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Okay.

406

So I wanna learn to play cards just

so dad will pay attention to me.

407

And you know, we're looking at, if

you and I were to work together,

408

although I only work with physician

women, but hey, you know, maybe I

409

can extend it, extend it to attorney

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Speaker: women.

411

Speaker 2: Yeah.

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I know I can work, extend it to,

because really, you know, the, the

413

premise behind it all is all the same.

414

I've just started with physician women.

415

Uh, but um, it's, the

premise is still the same.

416

There's what was way back then

in your early childhood, what

417

was the, what was the climate?

418

In your household.

419

Mm-hmm.

420

What was that environment like?

421

Was there tension between your parents?

422

Was dad just always hired

because he was always working?

423

Hey, maybe dad had two families and

that's why he was always working.

424

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

425

Speaker 2: You know, those

kinds of things happened.

426

Um, I learned that happened

with my principal high school.

427

Speaker: Crazy.

428

Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.

429

I know.

430

It's kind of crazy, but uh, yeah,

people live double lives and

431

you don't always know what else

is going on behind those doors.

432

Yeah.

433

Speaker: I wanna say too, and because

I always tell my, I mean, I love

434

being a mom, but I tell my kids, I'm

sure I cause stuff because I'm just a

435

confused person trying to figure thing.

436

You know what I mean?

437

Speaker 2: Yeah.

438

Speaker: Don't you?

439

I think that you can have these traumas

in and have parents that love you and want

440

it to do what was, you know what I mean?

441

Is that true?

442

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.

443

And the big thing is, is do the parents

recognize that they messed up and are

444

they trying harder not to do it again?

445

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

446

Speaker 2: And that's really where my

position is because I know that I've

447

had some responses that are out of

proportion to things that happened in

448

my own household, and I have to step

back and go, okay, wait a minute.

449

That was wrong.

450

Let me figure this out.

451

How can I try again?

452

And you know, I've been very fortunate

to have children who are very forgiving.

453

Um, and they see me struggle and they

understand that I had trauma in childhood.

454

Um, and they understand that

I'm doing everything I can to.

455

To heal.

456

And they've noticed significant

improvements by leaps and bounds

457

just over the past couple of years

when, when I sought out healing.

458

And so, um, I'm 57, uh,

turning 57 next month.

459

And, uh, I was, yeah,

I think I was about 54.

460

I was 54 when I finally said I

have to do something about this.

461

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

462

Yeah.

463

So you were kind of like me, like

you just, I started, I think before

464

COVID, I started going, I don't think

this is how I really wanna feel,

465

Speaker 2: feel

466

Speaker: exactly doing coaching.

467

And I think I got certified as a life

coach and I was just like, there's just,

468

and I started, but then I had a big,

kind of a big trauma after that, which I

469

was like, oh, I mean, I couldn't, I kind

of couldn't use myself coaching because

470

you know how when you're in the middle.

471

Of something really, you gotta,

you can't think through it.

472

You know what I mean?

473

Exactly.

474

Yes.

475

And so I've learned like, move

your body, sit and still, you know,

476

I've learned things through that.

477

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

478

Speaker: Um, but it's just, we're

all gonna deal with hard things.

479

Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely.

480

And the thing is, when you heal

the mother, you heal the child.

481

So when you have a problem child,

you have a child that's having

482

difficulties when the mom heals, the

kid heals because Yeah, I love that.

483

The environment is much

better for the child.

484

Speaker: Yeah.

485

Okay, so trauma, trauma can show up.

486

What I'm hearing from you is in different

ways, like it can show up, it shows

487

Speaker 2: up.

488

Yeah, it shows up everywhere.

489

And then everything.

490

So there was, uh, I was Vander

Vander, Vander Keel, VanDerKolk.

491

Bezel VanDerKolk.

492

Okay.

493

Beezer.

494

VanDerKolk.

495

Speaker: Okay.

496

Speaker 2: My head injury is coming

out with my knee residual of that.

497

I have a hard time with names.

498

I always have.

499

So he wrote a book called The

Body Keeps the Score and Oh

500

yeah, yeah, I've heard of that.

501

So you know, when you've had physical

trauma, sexual trauma, even emotional

502

trauma, you can end up storing

that in your body and people who

503

have that kind of trauma, um, can

later on develop other problems.

504

I have a very good friend

back on the East Coast.

505

We went to medical school together.

506

He is a urologist and he told me, he

said, every woman that comes in to my

507

office, they've been sexually abused.

508

Speaker: Really?

509

Speaker 2: Yeah.

510

And, uh, you know, the, the genital

urinary system holds onto that

511

trauma and becomes problematic.

512

Either sexually transmitted diseases

may be part of it, but also the physical

513

trauma, the tension that occurred during

the rape or during the molestation, or,

514

you know, um, or whether or not they

were beaten or, you know, we, we all

515

know the types of things that can happen.

516

So all of those things can come

out in the pelvis for a woman

517

who, uh, had experienced that.

518

Um, in my own healing, uh, there were

times where during my treatments it,

519

it almost felt like an exorcism as

though there was something that was

520

just this big physical release of

all of the terror that I had absorbed

521

in my childhood was all stored in.

522

One or more areas.

523

And during those healing

sessions, boom, they were gone.

524

Speaker: Okay.

525

Tell me, how did you release those?

526

Speaker 2: Uh, you know, in the beginning,

um, traditional psychiatry really just,

527

uh, it is kind of a bandaid on trauma.

528

Um, it, uh, it's a medication,

you know, the medications that are

529

indicated, um, or have approval, uh,

really mask a lot of the symptoms and

530

mask a lot of the healing, I believe.

531

Um, psychedelic medicine is something

very different and it is on the horizon,

532

and we're hoping that it's coming through

and people keep pushing for it because

533

it's something that's very needed.

534

Although ketamine is available,

um, I don't know what the ketamine

535

therapy itself looks like.

536

I know what the intravenous.

537

Portion looks like because I received

it and I also did some training in it.

538

Um, what it does is it really brings

back, um, and allows you to process

539

through some of those positive memories

and some of those negative memories,

540

and it reconnects you to those memories.

541

Um, ketamine and other psychedelics,

uh, cause uh, neurons to grow

542

and neurons to interconnect.

543

And you reas reacquaint

yourself with past memories.

544

And, uh, that's what

psychedelic medicine did for me.

545

Speaker: Okay.

546

That's where, okay.

547

So I haven't done that.

548

Speaker 2: Yeah.

549

Speaker: But I know, like I've done,

um, neurolinguistic programming

550

Speaker 2: and lp Yeah.

551

Speaker: And I've done, uh, I just

did one session of brain spotting.

552

Have you heard of that?

553

Speaker 2: No.

554

I don't know what brain spotting is.

555

Speaker: It's a little bit similar.

556

I had this thing where I put these

headphones on my bone and there was

557

something, and it was looking in certain

areas and, uh, emotions would pop up.

558

Speaker 2: Huh.

559

It sounds like a little bit of e mdr r

It sounds like it's related to MDR, but

560

Speaker: it's, and I think it's a little

bit like NLP too, like trying So can

561

you I would be, I would be terrified.

562

See you jump out of planes

so you can do it psychedelic.

563

I can't, I don't like that.

564

I feel like it would, can

I get healing without it?

565

Can you or do you need

566

Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm sure there,

yeah, I, um, I'm sure you can.

567

There is, uh, you know, there

are all types of theories

568

out there and everything.

569

Everyone works differently.

570

I mean, I certainly, I don't

encourage schizophrenic patients

571

to take this because it.

572

Increases their risk and

makes hallucinations and

573

all of their symptoms worse.

574

Although I just read just two days ago

that they took the LSD molecule and they

575

took away the effect portion that causes

hallucinations and the, uh, result of the

576

drug is that they are, um, it's able to

grow neurons a hundred time, a hundred

577

thousand times faster than LSD in itself

does, and without the hallucinations.

578

And now they're looking at that as,

is this a treatment for schizophrenia?

579

And that might be possible.

580

And boy, that would be,

581

Speaker: wouldn't that

582

Speaker 2: be revolutionary?

583

Speaker: Okay.

584

So Don Marie.

585

So I, I feel like you're probably, you're

smarter than me about all of this stuff.

586

So when you're talking about growing

neurons, what, when I think of this.

587

My brain says, I wanna

change the way I think.

588

'cause I know I get these

like feelings and I can go,

589

what's the story behind that?

590

What's the thought behind that?

591

Which I'm not making fun of.

592

That's good to do.

593

And I look at that and I, I go,

well, that's not serving me.

594

Or it's not even true.

595

So I can see it and I can know it.

596

It's not true.

597

And yet still it's embedded in

my brain somewhere where it's

598

the first, you know what I mean?

599

Like, it doesn't just change it

like a light switch when I know it.

600

So that means that neural pathway

is still working in the old way,

601

even though I know it's not true.

602

Speaker 2: Exactly.

603

Speaker: So how do you change that?

604

Speaker 2: Yeah, it takes work.

605

Speaker: Yeah.

606

Speaker 2: The thing is, is

with the psychedelics, that

607

work is just a lot faster.

608

It

609

Speaker: LPs maybe for

losing and late fixing

610

Speaker 2: your No, not the glp.

611

No glp.

612

They may even have their own

problems, but, um, I felt very

613

depressed and suicidal on glp.

614

I was trying to Oh, you did?

615

Yeah.

616

Yeah.

617

So, uh, and other people don't, they feel

much better and lighter, but there is

618

definitely something going on in the gut.

619

That's, uh, causing people to lose

weight, but also that are contributing

620

to depression, anxiety, bipolar

disorder, schizophrenia, autism.

621

Uh, there's been some studies out

recently where they're looking at fecal.

622

I was just gonna say, just

gonna ask you about transplant.

623

Yeah.

624

The future of medicine is really

interesting between if, if the

625

government could just get out of our way,

626

get outta our way, and give medicine

back to physicians so that we can do

627

the studies that we need to do, we

will be healing people left and right.

628

And we can, we will be

so much more prosperous.

629

But

630

Speaker: what, okay, so tell me

what, what is government doing

631

that's standing, what's standing in

the way of you doing these studies?

632

Speaker 2: Oh, regulations.

633

No, you can't study LSD.

634

No.

635

You can't, uh, have magic mushrooms.

636

Nope.

637

Those are on a, a list that

there's no therapeutic value.

638

Well, no, there was a therapeutic value.

639

Speaker: What about the fecal?

640

Um, implanting,

641

Speaker 2: that's another thing.

642

Well, it's dirty.

643

It's it's bias.

644

It's looking at, oh, well, you

can't possibly put somebody else's

645

poop up somebody else's butt.

646

Speaker: Is there any point of it that

you think it's not financially, they're

647

not financially motivated because there's

648

Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.

649

Because you'll look at, you know, other

drug companies because you know what

650

happens to their investment in this crap?

651

SSRI that might just be a little

bit better than the old crap

652

SSRIs that were out there, that

have been out there for 30 years.

653

That's a huge investment that they made.

654

And now LSD comes along and blows it all

away and is curing depression now what?

655

Now we've just lost all of that money

on that drug in those years that we put

656

in because something else is better.

657

Well, that's what the free market does.

658

The free market

659

helps everyone benefit by creating

something that's better and that,

660

that's just fair competition.

661

Speaker: How do you get back to that?

662

I mean, it's been, I think it was the

663

Yeah.

664

Do you see, I, I wrote a thesis on this.

665

I I saw that as, um, it, it tied,

I felt it tied doctor's hands.

666

Speaker 2: It really does.

667

It does.

668

Speaker: On what they can and, and

the information that they're getting.

669

I'm wondering is that

sometimes, I don't know.

670

I don't even wanna get into all this.

671

I should get my husband.

672

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably a

little bit more than we wanna get

673

into, but yes, doctor's hands are

tied to how much we can give, how

674

much we can do, what we can provide.

675

It's very frustrating.

676

It's one of the reasons why I'm

saying I don't wanna do this

677

anymore as a physician, because

I know what my limitations are

678

with how I can help someone.

679

And it's very frustrating on

this end knowing that there

680

are other things available.

681

You know, you can get

psychedelic medicine in Colorado.

682

You can get psychedelic

medicine in Oregon.

683

That is where there, there's uh, I

think there's at least 60 clinics

684

in Colorado, I just, just read.

685

Um, but then there are other places, uh,

apparently Mexico and per, uh, Peru, um,

686

there are sha uh, I can't shaman Shamanic.

687

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

688

Speaker 2: Pronunciation.

689

Yeah.

690

So there are shamans that do this type

of work and they work with, um, ibogaine

691

and ayahuasca, which are very potent.

692

And even Ibogaine Ibogaine may

treat our methamphetamine crisis.

693

Everyone talks about fentanyl,

but I'll tell you, fentanyl,

694

fentanyl just kills 'em right away.

695

The real tragedy is methamphetamines

and how it just destroys a person's

696

life, and they're just lingering on

by the time their teeth are gone.

697

The, the crime rate around somebody

who has been using meth, you know,

698

they, they steal everything to support

it, like crack cocaine back in.

699

How do they

700

Speaker: ever get over it?

701

Do they.

702

Speaker 2: Uh, very few.

703

They generally become very psycho.

704

I've had patients who have

been permanently psychotic

705

because of methamphetamines.

706

And, you know, eventually, um, when I

was working down in Southern California,

707

we would, they would pick up patients

in the middle of the desert who were

708

just wandering around or are, are in

acute renal failure because they're

709

so dehydrated from being out in the

desert, looking at the storms high on

710

methamphetamines and very dehydrated.

711

And it just, it arose the

entire system little by little.

712

And you know, they, it, their heart

suffers, their lungs suffer, their kidneys

713

suffer their muscles, the muscle damage.

714

I've seen people come in with,

you know, you'd think they'd run

715

a marathon because of, uh, because

their, their, um, their labs come back.

716

Mm-hmm.

717

You know, completely abnormal.

718

It's, uh, it's a real tragedy.

719

Yeah.

720

Methamphetamines is a tragedy.

721

That's our real tragedy we're going on.

722

I mean, I

723

Speaker: think it all is.

724

Speaker 2: It all is.

725

But as far as, um, expense, meth is cheap.

726

Uh, so people get

727

Speaker: it easier,

728

Speaker 2: ev everyone gets

it, you know, apparent.

729

Apparently some years before I even

bought this place, there was a meth

730

labate across the street from me.

731

Really whole house.

732

The whole house is gone.

733

So, yeah, it's, um,

734

Speaker: and you know, in my mind I'm just

like, who says I'm just gonna try this?

735

Speaker 2: People who are traumatized

because they're going their

736

entire lives feeling miserable

and not knowing how to do it.

737

And while you and I are people who are

high achievers, because that's how I

738

dealt with my trauma, what can I do?

739

Speaker: Yeah.

740

Oh, it's always that

741

Speaker 2: proving what's

742

Speaker: going on, what can I do?

743

What

744

Speaker 2: plan, what can I do?

745

What's going next?

746

Yeah.

747

And rest, like, rest was something rest.

748

Something foreign to me.

749

Speaker: Yeah.

750

Speaker 2: I felt that if I was just

watching a movie that I was being lazy.

751

Yeah.

752

And I couldn't rest and I always had

to be up doing something and rest

753

is therapeutic and it's necessary.

754

And you know, as much as I would tell

my wife when I would tell my nursing

755

staff, staff and the don't wake Mr.

756

Smith up.

757

He has bipolar disorder, he's manic.

758

He needs to stay.

759

I don't care about the groups.

760

Rest is the sleep is therapeutic.

761

I would tell 'em all the

time, sleep is therapeutic.

762

And then there's a point where they

were starting to mimic me like, yes, Dr.

763

Was sleep.

764

Like, yes, it's therapeutic.

765

This patient needs sleep.

766

Yes.

767

That's what he needs.

768

And uh, yeah, so, um, taking my own advice

and, uh, trying to unwind that guilt.

769

You have the same sleep or when

I'm resting, or I know that

770

I cannot, I'm not 20 anymore.

771

I'm 57.

772

My God, there's only so much I can do.

773

I don't

774

Speaker: even like to say that.

775

Any,

776

Speaker 2: what's that?

777

Speaker: I still don't like to say that.

778

Speaker 2: No, I don't either.

779

I, but you know, I'm still, I'm giving

myself some grace and recognizing that,

780

uh, you know, my journey's not over and

that I am going through a rough time

781

right now with some things, and I have to,

and hustling is not the answer anymore.

782

The answer now is, is to thrive.

783

And what do I have to do to

thrive while I need to rest?

784

Speaker: Yeah.

785

And I think too, something that I've

learned recently is that it's so amazing.

786

I have this woman on who wrote

a book called The Selfish Year,

787

Speaker 2: Uhhuh,

788

Speaker: and she said she just

took a year and she went, I'm just

789

gonna do everything for myself.

790

I'm gonna just take care of myself.

791

And she said.

792

She said she couldn't believe that

she actually ended up doing more than

793

she ever did when she wasn't selfish.

794

Yeah.

795

Because she just, it opened up time.

796

She just, you know, did

what was on her heart to do.

797

Yeah.

798

She helped more people than she ever

helped because it was just different.

799

Speaker 2: Yeah.

800

Speaker: I'm like, that's so cool.

801

Yeah.

802

Okay, so Don, right,

we're going off subject.

803

We

804

Speaker 2: still haven't, I

still haven't heard my story.

805

Speaker 5: Okay, friends, I've

been jumping in here now to end

806

this conversation, come back next

week because her story, I mean,

807

it sounds like something that

from the Epstein files, it's like,

808

like I said, it's bananas and um.

809

It's a really hard thing that

she went through and I'm so

810

grateful that she, uh, opened up.

811

So that's next week.

812

Thank you so much for being here.

813

Hit subscribe.

814

Go to lisa koski.com,

815

sign up for my newsletter, and if you

are going through a divorce and need

816

some help co-parenting together or you

wanna get your plan in place before

817

you even go through the divorce to

save you money and time and to help

818

your kids take that online course,

I have a free masterclass as well.

819

Thanks so much.