Transcripts
Welcome to the mesmerizing marketing podcast, where we take a deep dive
Speaker:into the latest marketing trends, tools, and tips, and provide you with
Speaker:the top resources you need to thrive and make your marketing mesmerized.
Speaker:And now here's your host dimple.
Speaker:Dang.
Speaker:Hello everyone today.
Speaker:I'm so excited to be here with Francesco wits.
Speaker:Roku is a trademark and IP attorney, and I'm going to let her introduce herself.
Speaker:Welcome Francesca.
Speaker:Hi dimple.
Speaker:I am so excited to be here today.
Speaker:My name is Francesca Pittsburgh, and I am an intellectual property lawyer.
Speaker:I handled trademarks, copyrights, anything really related to
Speaker:those two transactionally.
Speaker:And I run the Instagram account, the trademark attorney to educate and
Speaker:empower brands to understanding so that they understand what IP is and that
Speaker:they can actually integrate some of these tools in their businesses to help
Speaker:them just stay protected and profit.
Speaker:Yeah, that's really so important nowadays.
Speaker:So I love all of that and tell us where you're located.
Speaker:I am based in New York city and New Jersey.
Speaker:I am a New York and a New Jersey attorney, but the great thing about intellectual
Speaker:property rights is that you can practice federally because it's federal law.
Speaker:So I serve as clients all in all 50 states.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:That is amazing.
Speaker:I love that because there's definitely people all over that are
Speaker:starting new businesses that are launching podcasts that are creating
Speaker:membership sites and courses.
Speaker:And this is important information that they all need to know.
Speaker:But before we dive into all of that, I want to dig a little bit deeper.
Speaker:I want to know, when you first thought about, okay, I want to
Speaker:become a lawyer when I grow up.
Speaker:When was that?
Speaker:Like, how old were you?
Speaker:Do you remember that?
Speaker:It's like the most cliche story that every lawyer gives, right?
Speaker:Like, oh, someone in your family, you said you like to talk and you like to argue.
Speaker:And so you'd make a good lawyer.
Speaker:But actually even though they said that there was a point in my career where.
Speaker:In school.
Speaker:I wanted to do the nonprofit route.
Speaker:I thought I was going to work for a nonprofit organization and help that way.
Speaker:But then I realized, you know, you can actually get a lot done.
Speaker:And I, there was just so much more opportunity if I
Speaker:decided to go to law school.
Speaker:So I ended up exploring that route.
Speaker:I thought I was going to do public interest in wall school,
Speaker:but then I fell in love with.
Speaker:Concept and this legal thing called intellectual property
Speaker:law, which I had no idea existed.
Speaker:And I just knew it was the future.
Speaker:I knew it was a way to actually help people and help businesses and creatives.
Speaker:So I dove right in and I I've been an IP lawyer since.
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:And what do you love about what you do?
Speaker:I really like working with the businesses and the creatives.
Speaker:So I have clients that are all the way from fortune 500
Speaker:companies to solo preneurs.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I advise pretty much anyone and everyone on intellectual property issues.
Speaker:But what I really like is when clients come to me and they say, okay, here's,
Speaker:here's what we're thinking about.
Speaker:Here's what we're about to launch.
Speaker:And they just brain dump on me and I get to tell them, okay, here's your IP?
Speaker:And here are all the little tools and the things that you can use
Speaker:really to protect not only to protect your business, but to make money.
Speaker:I think that's a huge point for businesses is that you can start monetizing a
Speaker:lot of your intellectual property if you do it the right way and use
Speaker:lawyers as more as business partners and strategists than just necessary.
Speaker:I love that, use them as business partners and strategists, because I think,
Speaker:that's the thing, it's how you view your attorney and they are there to help you.
Speaker:They're there to protect you.
Speaker:And, I think one of the mistakes that I see a lot of people make is.
Speaker:They don't go to an attorney soon enough and they wait and then when
Speaker:there's an issue, then they go to an attorney and then by then the
Speaker:issue is become a bigger issue.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And then it's harder to fix that.
Speaker:It probably is going to end up costing them more money.
Speaker:So what advice do you have to, creatives that are starting out and they're,
Speaker:creating different brands and they're creating, you know, even things like
Speaker:a logo that they want to protect and content and all different, various
Speaker:types of things, even their brand name.
Speaker:Yes, is the cost of doing business.
Speaker:If you are going to be a creator, if you're going to start monetizing
Speaker:things, everyone needs to just budget these things early.
Speaker:And you don't have to register for everything.
Speaker:I think that's like one of the things that I really focus on with clients.
Speaker:I understand everyone has a budget.
Speaker:I don't care if you're a million dollar business, you know, it's, it's not
Speaker:always feasible to file for everything and try to protect everything.
Speaker:So I work with clients on figuring out what's the most
Speaker:important trademarks register.
Speaker:What's the most.
Speaker:Copyright to register and it looks the most important
Speaker:contract piece to get in place.
Speaker:Those three things are typically the most important.
Speaker:You may have patents and trade secrets also, but generally speaking, most
Speaker:businesses have those three things.
Speaker:And so, you know, I hear clients say, yeah, but to register, it's going to
Speaker:cost me tens of thousands of dollars.
Speaker:That's not true.
Speaker:I mean, maybe if you're using the wrong lawyer, but for these things,
Speaker:I like to talk numbers, just to give people an honest example, like my
Speaker:firm, we offer a flat fee it's 1250.
Speaker:That includes the government fee of three 50.
Speaker:Like that number.
Speaker:You're going to have people who are going to do more and you're
Speaker:definitely not people who do it less.
Speaker:I want entrepreneurs and businesses to understand that
Speaker:like that 1250 is going to be.
Speaker:So much farther down the road, then God forbid getting into a litigation
Speaker:where a law firm, isn't going to be able to refuse that you, unless they get a
Speaker:retainer of about $2,000 on average.
Speaker:Budget it as the cost of doing business and file for these things early.
Speaker:That can make a big difference.
Speaker:And I think, it's about budgeting, but it's also about
Speaker:doing your homework early on.
Speaker:And one of the things I like to tell content creators is, before
Speaker:you even go to an attorney, there are certain things that you should do.
Speaker:So I say, go to Google, look at social media accounts and see
Speaker:if someone's using that name.
Speaker:See if they have a Facebook page, a LinkedIn professional page, Instagram
Speaker:account tech talk account, all of those things, because if the name that you want
Speaker:to use, you're seeing that it's already being used on social media handles.
Speaker:That's already a red flag that you may or may not be able to use it.
Speaker:And I say may or may not be.
Speaker:That's when a lawyer comes in and they can be helpful.
Speaker:But then the second step is you want to look, go to bluehost.com.
Speaker:You want to check and see if the domain for your business name
Speaker:that you want to use is available.
Speaker:And if it's not available, is there a live website on it?
Speaker:Is it just that someone purchased it?
Speaker:Maybe they're purchasing it.
Speaker:Selling it.
Speaker:So you have to look at all of these things, right?
Speaker:And then they would go to the official site, which I'm going to have you
Speaker:talk about Francesca, where they go and do their initial search.
Speaker:You, you hit some of the major ones because rights in the
Speaker:United States are based on use.
Speaker:So we're definitely going to check the register.
Speaker:We're going to check to see who's registered.
Speaker:You go to USPS, pto.gov, but that step is not enough for two.
Speaker:One that search is very basic.
Speaker:It's only gonna, they don't have like a great, it's not a very user-friendly.
Speaker:Format anyway, but it will only pull up really identical marks
Speaker:or nearly identical marks.
Speaker:Like if there's a space, it's not going to pull up phonetic differences or close
Speaker:variants, that'll still be an obstacle to your registration and everything that
Speaker:dimple you just mentioned is great too.
Speaker:Because if even if someone doesn't have a registration, they could
Speaker:still have rights based on.
Speaker:So if someone's already using the name for a podcast or on an Instagram
Speaker:account, and it's overlapping in your space, that's a problem.
Speaker:So definitely do those things.
Speaker:They're easy tools.
Speaker:I do them because I have my own trademarks, right.
Speaker:Just because I help clients.
Speaker:I'm also a business owner and entrepreneur, so I have my own
Speaker:trademarks and that's the first thing I do is I check Google.
Speaker:I go to USP Tio just to make sure no one has the name before I actually.
Speaker:And then let's say that they've, had initial conversation with an attorney
Speaker:and the attorney says, okay, you can use this what's the next step.
Speaker:So I would say that the first step really is to do what you said
Speaker:quick and dirty do it yourself.
Speaker:And then you come to the lawyer, we will run.
Speaker:What's called a preliminary search.
Speaker:So it's going to be a search that is very high level.
Speaker:It's dead hits exact marks or close, very close similarities.
Speaker:And it's the same thing for the goods and services.
Speaker:And also they should start using that, to you.
Speaker:Because they're going to have to show proof of that when
Speaker:they follow her application.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Can you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker:Definitely.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So the TM symbols, and not as like a great tool to use what it
Speaker:is it's called a notice symbol.
Speaker:So it's putting people on notice saying that, Hey, I'm using this as a
Speaker:although it's not registered because a TM doesn't mean it's registered,
Speaker:I'm claiming rights to this.
Speaker:So whether or not you have a pending application or you just haven't
Speaker:registered, this is telling the world, Hey, back off, this is my mark.
Speaker:The only downside to having common law rights.
Speaker:And this is really important.
Speaker:there is a huge difference between.
Speaker:Non-registered trademarks and registered trademarks.
Speaker:And this is why I'm here.
Speaker:This is why I'm all over the internet.
Speaker:Like this one.
Speaker:If you get this one takeaway, please unregistered rights are very limited.
Speaker:They are limited rights.
Speaker:They are limited to the geographic region where you operate.
Speaker:So, what does that even mean for online businesses and content
Speaker:creators that are online?
Speaker:Basically, the law was created a long time ago when it was feasible for you to
Speaker:have a business in California and another business in New York, and then not have
Speaker:any confusion, but that has changed we're in the internet age or in the digital age.
Speaker:You really should register your names because with the registration,
Speaker:it gives you a presumption of rights and all 50 states.
Speaker:That's huge.
Speaker:That is huge.
Speaker:And I think now that you know, a lot of brands, they're not just doing
Speaker:business in one state, they have clients all over the United States.
Speaker:They travel to conferences.
Speaker:They make connections with people.
Speaker:They start working on projects for different people and, even freelance
Speaker:artists, graphic designers, they are.
Speaker:Doing work for so many different people.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And it can be all over the U S but it could even be globally.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And I think that's one really important factor to be aware of that you shared.
Speaker:So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker:Let's talk a little bit about, what the process is like, do you have a
Speaker:process that you like to go through?
Speaker:With a client, let's talk about trademarks right now.
Speaker:And then maybe we can talk a little bit about copyrights as well.
Speaker:Like when it comes to trademarks, especially for let's say a business
Speaker:name, because I think that's the most common trademark that people
Speaker:are probably coming to you for.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah, it'll it'll depend.
Speaker:It is it's.
Speaker:I would say it's the most traditional, but I also do a lot of like clearance
Speaker:and filings for podcasts, names, titles anything that you're really liked using
Speaker:as a, maybe as a slogan or new logo.
Speaker:So it really could be any of those things, but when you're dealing with
Speaker:smaller businesses that are just starting,
Speaker:it's usually the most important name is the corporate name.
Speaker:Correct?
Speaker:So I try to do it as streamlined as possible.
Speaker:I offer a free 15 minute call, which is really like a strategy call.
Speaker:That's how I would equate it to figuring out what's the most important trademark.
Speaker:What's your most important copyright?
Speaker:And do you need a contract?
Speaker:And then clients may say, well, I only have the budget for one of those.
Speaker:It's typically the trademark that's the most important.
Speaker:So we'll go ahead and actually file for that.
Speaker:That's really how, like the process starts.
Speaker:I need to get on the phone and help advise.
Speaker:Yeah, I think, yeah, you definitely have to gather more information and, see
Speaker:what it is that their intent is like, what did they want in terms of protection?
Speaker:How are they going to be using that particular name?
Speaker:Where are they going to be using it?
Speaker:Because again, there's also different classifications, on the application.
Speaker:And it's not just one classification.
Speaker:I think people.
Speaker:Miss that part too.
Speaker:They don't realize oh, well, which class do I need to be in?
Speaker:And how do I even go about determining that that's a whole other can of worms.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So how do you educate, your clients on that?
Speaker:That's the part where people think, oh, trademark filings are so easy.
Speaker:I'm just going to put in my mark and put in what I am doing, but there is an entire
Speaker:body of law and it's very technical.
Speaker:It's very specific as to what goods and services you're offering.
Speaker:Goods are a little bit easier.
Speaker:Sometimes you can just describe the product, but even then the
Speaker:government has specific requirements.
Speaker:For example, clothing you need, you can just file for clothing.
Speaker:You can't just file for clothing.
Speaker:You have to be extremely specific.
Speaker:They want to know what kind of clothing articles.
Speaker:So for me, someone who's experienced in the fashion industry, working
Speaker:on these types of applications, I know the tips and tricks.
Speaker:I know that they won't accept clothing, but they will accept
Speaker:clothing, comma, namely tops.
Speaker:And that's pretty broad.
Speaker:Like if you can get all your tops and all your bottoms, that's a
Speaker:little trick if you're taking notes.
Speaker:What's really technical is when you get into the services.
Speaker:I think I, this is where I see clients mess up all the time.
Speaker:Like they'll have content accounts and they'll be podcasters.
Speaker:And then they file for some reason for the advertising and marketing services.
Speaker:But the government literally sees advertising and marketing services
Speaker:as like, as if you were an ad agency.
Speaker:So, not only did you just waste $350, but you wasted now six to nine months
Speaker:because the government is so behind.
Speaker:So getting those specifications down are really important.
Speaker:And like, when I work with my online coaches, I have this amazing
Speaker:template that I base off of that covers all of my basis for all
Speaker:the programs that they're doing.
Speaker:And then we customize that to each person, but at least I've
Speaker:done it enough where I know the main services and where they fall.
Speaker:Like that's another thing.
Speaker:Dimple.
Speaker:Some trademark lawyers may have no idea what an online coach
Speaker:is or what these programs are.
Speaker:And if, if you get the wrong lawyer, you may not have someone that
Speaker:understands your business accurately.
Speaker:Describe these.
Speaker:Yeah, that is very true.
Speaker:And then it turns into a big mess that, they're going to have to fix.
Speaker:It's going to cost them more money, more time and money and time are valuable.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So, thank you for sharing that.
Speaker:Let's talk a little bit about copyrights too, because copyrights are so important.
Speaker:And I think they're not, super complicated, but I think people
Speaker:just fail to even utilize them because they don't know.
Speaker:That it's something available to protect their content.
Speaker:I dunno.
Speaker:I mean, you tell me why do you think people don't utilize them as much?
Speaker:I think it's a lack of knowledge.
Speaker:I really, I speak to online coaches and I'm on clubhouse.
Speaker:And I talk about these three pillars.
Speaker:The trademark protects the name, copyright protects the content are your programs,
Speaker:your courses, and the contract piece protects you and the relationship with
Speaker:your clients or who you're hiring.
Speaker:And people are like, wait, I can protect.
Speaker:My videos and my courses and my programs like, yes, you can do
Speaker:it without just having the name.
Speaker:The name is important, but you can literally protect the
Speaker:content itself of the copyright.
Speaker:And then on top of it, if you have the right contract language, you can protect
Speaker:yourself from copy cats who you're dealing with, which unfortunately happens
Speaker:a lot with coaches that their clients don't really know, or maybe they do it.
Speaker:Borderline intentionally and they actually start taking stuff.
Speaker:So with the copyright, you're protected with your content.
Speaker:And it also is like an extra level of protection against people you're doing
Speaker:business with when you have the contract.
Speaker:But I think it's that people don't know.
Speaker:And if anyone's interested in protecting your creative
Speaker:works reach out to me because.
Speaker:It's an important aspect and it's not as easy as people think.
Speaker:Like one huge myth that I keep seeing is people think that they can publish
Speaker:everything, meaning put it out to the public, let their customers have it,
Speaker:and then file one application for every.
Speaker:And most of the time they can't, if we can file everything before it's
Speaker:published, this is like a huge tip.
Speaker:That's permitted within the law, as long as you're working with
Speaker:a lawyer to help advise you.
Speaker:But that's like a strategy I use with clients, like give me everything before
Speaker:it's published and let's try under the law to package it in a way, if we can
Speaker:under one application, otherwise you're going to have to file for each video.
Speaker:If they were uploaded on different days and it gets really expensive.
Speaker:Yeah, like when you think about some of the common things that people
Speaker:are creating, they're creating membership sites and a membership
Speaker:site can have, 20, 30, 40, 50 videos.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And that's also like one of the things that I've seen most,
Speaker:some people buy a membership into courses, justice deal, and rip off other people's
Speaker:courses, which has become a big issue.
Speaker:And even though it benefits them from having that copyright protection, when
Speaker:that happens to them, what can they do?
Speaker:Because sometimes I feel like there's not a lot that can be.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So in the United States, the Supreme court has actually ruled on this.
Speaker:And it's really important if you want to enforce your rights, meaning you want to
Speaker:Sue, you want to get such Tory damages to, you need to have a copyright registration.
Speaker:This is really important.
Speaker:You can try to enforce without it.
Speaker:And I need to just say that because.
Speaker:there's people who are going to be late for your task and that's not right.
Speaker:But for the most part, yes, like the Supreme court has said
Speaker:to enforce to get into courts.
Speaker:You need to have a registration.
Speaker:So equivalent is, let's say you send a threatening letter saying
Speaker:you're infringing all of my.
Speaker:I want you to stop.
Speaker:If you don't have that cop, that copyright registration number, it's
Speaker:the equivalent of waving an empty gun.
Speaker:Like what are you going to do?
Speaker:Sue me?
Speaker:Ha so that's really like savvy people.
Speaker:If you get demand letters and there's no, there's no registration number.
Speaker:You can just say, until you show me your registration, then go.
Speaker:There's also like timelines that deal with it.
Speaker:So if you find out about the infringement and you file there's a clock that
Speaker:starts, it gets pretty technical.
Speaker:So the point being like, I don't want to get into the legal analysis.
Speaker:I try to give tips to people in the most practical sense,
Speaker:register your stuff early.
Speaker:And people say what?
Speaker:Francesca.
Speaker:I have all of these things and I have all of this content.
Speaker:Figure out what's your baby?
Speaker:Like what is the core assets?
Speaker:What holds your method, the stuff and the genius that you've created, that you
Speaker:would be devastated if someone stole, figure out what that is, and then file the
Speaker:application for that, whether it's your video or or a book or slides, PowerPoint
Speaker:slides, like let's figure it out.
Speaker:Talk to talk to an IP lawyer, talk to someone, does copyrights
Speaker:like me and figure out that true.
Speaker:And before someone even comes to you.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So that, because they are, they're going to be paying for their time.
Speaker:And you know, your time's valuable, like before they even come to you, what are
Speaker:some things they can do to be prepared for the meeting when they have that meeting
Speaker:with you, whether it's pertaining to trademarks or copyrights or volts, but
Speaker:just in general, like what are some things that they can work on so that when they
Speaker:get on that phone call with you, it is a most productive use of everyone's time.
Speaker:You know what I think for copyright, it doesn't matter.
Speaker:It doesn't matter the stage, like if you're in early great.
Speaker:Cause I can help tell you how to build it.
Speaker:And then if you're.
Speaker:Later, like about to launch that's okay too.
Speaker:I'll have everything to look at and figure out how to package it.
Speaker:I think the most important thing is just getting on the phone.
Speaker:So I do that free 15 minute strategy call.
Speaker:It doesn't really give me time to dig in deep.
Speaker:And so what I do dimple is I do, what's called an IP
Speaker:audit where I have businesses.
Speaker:They brain dump on me.
Speaker:They send me all their websites, their social media pages, maybe their access
Speaker:codes to their membership pages, whatever content or business that they have.
Speaker:I look at everything and I say, okay, here.
Speaker:And I give them like a document of this.
Speaker:Here's all the trademarks that I've seen that you have.
Speaker:Here's all your potential copyrights.
Speaker:Are you using the copyright symbols?
Speaker:I kind of go through that checklist to see if what they're doing and how.
Speaker:Attempting to protect their IP.
Speaker:Maybe they don't know it, or maybe they do.
Speaker:And then a contract checklist, do you have your client agreement?
Speaker:Do you have an agreement with your clients when they purchase your services?
Speaker:Are you hiring independent contractors and do you have those contracts?
Speaker:So that's just like a super high level strategy call and I call it
Speaker:the audit, but at the end of it, we get an IP roadmap where I say.
Speaker:We're going to do your trademark, which is this, this one's the most important.
Speaker:And we talk through it and figure that out.
Speaker:We're going to file for this copyright, which is the most important.
Speaker:And then in that flat fee, they get all the legal analysis.
Speaker:So I'm going to work with them on, on a non hourly basis.
Speaker:To figure out how to compile all the stuff into that one application.
Speaker:And then we do the contract stuff, but that's really how it works
Speaker:is you get on the phone with me or another copyright lawyer.
Speaker:I do the audit to brain dump and strategize, and then we
Speaker:figure out how to put everything together as bundled as possible.
Speaker:If we can to save you money.
Speaker:Wonderful.
Speaker:Wonderful.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:One last question.
Speaker:And then I'm going to see what final thoughts you
Speaker:have because of the pandemic.
Speaker:Have you noticed, like, there's been , a delay in terms of the
Speaker:applications getting processed?
Speaker:Like, is it taking a lot longer?
Speaker:How much longer is it taking?
Speaker:Yeah, there's definitely delay, but I had.
Speaker:Any direct correlation with COVID.
Speaker:If there is a correlation it's because more people are online, more
Speaker:people are listening and becoming empowered and either want side hustles
Speaker:or they're realizing now that IP.
Speaker:Is everything.
Speaker:That's also one of my trademarks, IPS, everything like I do these
Speaker:programs around it because we're moving into the digital age.
Speaker:I mean, dimple your brand name, your podcast, name,
Speaker:everything that you're doing.
Speaker:All of these recordings, this is your intellectual property.
Speaker:You own this whether or not you want to monetize them, license them.
Speaker:We can all create.
Speaker:An extreme amount of wealth really by using intellectual property.
Speaker:So this is not going away.
Speaker:I think people are becoming more and more aware of it, but the reason for
Speaker:the backlog, I think is part because more people are just registering.
Speaker:Also, Amazon has a program that my firm is a part of.
Speaker:So we're part of the IP accelerator program.
Speaker:And Amazon requires.
Speaker:Certain brands to have registrations to enforce on their platforms.
Speaker:That's another huge point, guys.
Speaker:Most of these platforms to enforce your rights, meaning to
Speaker:get other people, to stop using you need to have a registration.
Speaker:And then Amazon has this program called the IP accelerator where you can get on
Speaker:with an application, which is way early.
Speaker:If you use one of the firms and my firms, one of them, so huge backlog, don't
Speaker:waste your time trying to do it yourself, just work with a lawyer, get it done the
Speaker:right way and get legal advice because you're not going to find out for six to
Speaker:nine months on the trademark register.
Speaker:If there's something wrong.
Speaker:Yeah, that's important.
Speaker:And then if there is something wrong and you try to do it yourself, you're just out
Speaker:of luck because now you've lost that time.
Speaker:And you're going to have to start basically from scratch with an attorney,
Speaker:such as go to the attorney from the get, go and do it the right way.
Speaker:That's great advice and Francesca.
Speaker:If you have a Calendly link, you can send that to me and I will link it in
Speaker:the show notes, but tell us how people can get ahold of you, where they can
Speaker:find you, how they can connect with you.
Speaker:The best is to go on Instagram.
Speaker:I'm at the trademark attorney.
Speaker:I'm clicking the link in my bio.
Speaker:I do offer that free 15 minute IP strategy call and that takes you to my
Speaker:Calendly and I'm happy to chat and help.
Speaker:Wonderful.
Speaker:Thank you so much for being a guest today.
Speaker:And this is amazing and I will see you later.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:bye.
Speaker:Bye.
Speaker:Thank you for listening to the mesmerizing marketing podcast.
Speaker:If you found this episode valuable, please subscribe to the show.
Speaker:So you don't ever miss an episode and also share it with your friends.
Speaker:Dimple would be so grateful.
Speaker:If you could take a minute to leave a review and visit the podcast website,
Speaker:to check out all the latest episodes.
Speaker:At www.mesmerizingmarketingpodcast.com that's www.mesmerizingmarketingpodcast.com
Speaker:and follow a dimple on clubhouse.
Speaker:Her handle is marketing expert and also join her mesmerizing marketing
Speaker:club also on clubhouse for live rooms on top marketing strategies for
Speaker:entrepreneurs and business owners who want to mesmerize their marketing.
