Enrichment is essential, not optional — and in this episode of The Yappy Hour we dive into how to keep your dog truly happy, calm, and fulfilled.
Host Nathan Dunleavy chats with canine enrichment expert and author Shay Kelly, who shares why enrichment matters, how it prevents behaviour problems, and simple enrichment ideas you can do at home today.
Whether you have a playful puppy, a senior dog, or a nervous rescue, this episode is packed with practical, budget-friendly advice to help you strengthen your bond and give your dog a life worth living.
🐾 What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
00:00 – Welcome & introduction to Shay Kelly
04:30 – What enrichment really means (beyond puzzle toys)
12:10 – The 5 types of enrichment every dog needs
19:40 – Why safety is the foundation of enrichment
28:15 – Enrichment for puppies vs. senior dogs
38:00 – How enrichment helps nervous or anxious dogs
46:00 – Budget-friendly enrichment ideas you can try today
55:00 – How enrichment prevents behaviour problems
1:04:00 – Final thoughts: enrichment is essential, not optional
👉 Don’t forget to subscribe to The Yappy Hour for more expert conversations on dog training, behaviour, and wellbeing.
Welcome to The Yappy Hour, powered by
Yappily, the podcast for dog lovers
2
:who want to better understand and
connect with their four legged friends.
3
:I'm your host Nathan Dunleavy,
and today we're diving into
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:one of the most important and.
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:Often overlooked aspects
of dog care enrichment.
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:My guest is Mr.
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:Shay Kelly, a leading expert in canine
enrichment behaviour and training.
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:Shay is the author of several books on dog
behaviour and is passionate about helping
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:pet parents create happier and fulfilled
lives for their dogs through simple.
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:Practical enrichment techniques.
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:In this episode, we explore why enrichment
is essential, how it can pr, prevent, and
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:solve behavioural issues and easy ways to
introduce more enrichment into your dog's
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:daily routine without spending a fortune.
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:Whether you have a high energy pup,
a senior dog, or a nervous rescue,
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:this episode is full of inspiration
and actionable and actionable advice.
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:So grab a cup of tea, settle
in, and let's get started.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Come back to the Yappy
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:Hour, powered by Yappily.
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:I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy,
and I'm so excited to bring
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:you another episode today.
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:Even more excited that we have the legend.
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:That is, is Mr.
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:Shay Kelly joining us on the episode.
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:Um, welcome Shay.
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:Um, so we're gonna be talking all
about enrichment and why it's so
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:important for your dog, and it's
gonna be a great jam packed episode.
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:So Shay, welcome to the Yappy Hour.
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:As I've said, I'm so excited
to have you with us today.
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:How are you doing?
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:Shay: I am very well, thank you.
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:Thanks for having me on here.
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:Always nice to talk about, uh,
anything dog related, really.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Absolutely.
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:No, you're most welcome.
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:I'm so she.
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:For those that might not be familiar
with your work, could you share a little
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:bit about your background and how you've
became so impassionate about enrichment?
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:Shay: Oh, it's, uh, a long story,
which I'll try and make a bit
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
That's okay.
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:You, you, you go for it.
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:Shay: As, uh, going right back
to childhood, I, I would say I
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:didn't really gel with, uh, people
so much as I jelled with animals.
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:And so it was always that natural
progression from there really.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Oh, lovely.
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:Shay: as an adult, uh,
uh, nothing changed.
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:I was still, I still felt more
connection to an animal where, you
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,
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:Shay: know, there there's no social
pressures and, and all that sort
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:of thing that you get with, uh,
with human social activities.
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:And, you know, I'm not
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
absolutely.
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:Shay: and all that.
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:I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm,
I'm chatty online, but I'm not
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:really, uh, in the real world.
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:I sort of keep myself to myself.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Oh, I feel privileged that you've
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:come onto onto the hour with me then.
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:Shay: Yeah.
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:So, uh, uh, in, into adulthood I sort
of got into obedience and, and sort
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:of liked training, um, like that.
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:And then I got into trick
training as time went by.
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:Um, I worked in rescue kennels
and I ran training classes.
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:And then I went to university and,
um, did three degrees 'cause I got a
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:bit addicted to it on, uh, touring dog
training and one on animal behaviour.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.
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:Shay: for dog aid assistance dogs, and
I do the occasional guest lecture, uh,
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:sometimes for the uni that I went to.
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:And, uh, I've done a few
other talks for people.
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:I've done a, done one
for Isha Stewart, and,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh
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:Shay: written my books as well, which
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes.
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:Shay: a sort of a long, a
long term, um, dream really.
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:But I'd never expected it to happen.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh wow.
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:Well, we're gonna be chatting
about your books as well.
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:I've got one here with me.
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:So we are gonna be coming onto
your books, so that's fantastic.
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:Three degrees, I dunno how you
manage that, but fair play to you.
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:Shay: Well, when, when you consider I left
school without a single qualification,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.
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:Shay: it was quite a
surprise for me as well.
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:But when you get hooked on something
that you're really passionate for, you
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.
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:Shay: I, it, it wasn't, uh, it was
difficult, but it wasn't, um, it
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:was, it was something I wanted to do.
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:I was sort of addicted to it.
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:I, I, I spent every day thinking about it.
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:It over, it, it overtook my life, really.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.
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:Shay: I sort of really lived it.
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:I was always working on an
assignment of, of some kind
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Shay: So I did the first two degrees and
then I, I wasn't gonna do the masters.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.
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:Shay: uh, but, but after, after about
two months of doing nothing, I was
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:like, I, I had to book again, so I
had to go back the following year.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.
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:What an inspiration.
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:I love that fair play to you.
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:Like you say, you got addicted to it
and you're clearly passionate about
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:it, so that's absolutely brilliant.
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:Um, so you've written several books.
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:We, um, we touched on your books just now
all about dog behaviour and enrichment.
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:What inspired you to
focus on these topics?
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:Shay: I think, I think really the, the
enrichment came along almost accidentally.
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:Um, I, I wasn't massively more into
enrichment than anything else, but I,
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:I, I was more into dog tricks and, and
I had a, I did, I did a, a Facebook
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:group where people won different awards.
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:Um, dog trick geeks.
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:It was called many, many years ago.
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:Um, but it became about it.
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:It was nice, but part of it,
people become obsessed in just, I.
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:What they're trying to achieve and,
and not the journey to get there.
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:I just wanted something that wasn't about
being the best and, and you know, just
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:enjoying your dog, whatever level they
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Shay: or whatever level you were on.
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:I didn't want it ev Everything
in the in in the dog world seemed
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:to be a competition and that's
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,
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:Shay: a little bit
uncomfortable with, I would say.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.
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:Shay: even though I enjoyed that stuff,
I was a little bit uncomfortable with it.
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:It,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Shay: about the relationship
so much as it was about, oh, I
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:wanna be the best at something.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Shay: looking around at enrichment
then, and there was a lot around
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:about, um, there was things called
like, do more with your dog and
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:things like that, but there was no.
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:At that time, there was no umbrella
term of canine in Richmond.
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:It just
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.
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:Shay: seem to exist.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.
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:Shay: I started the first, uh, enrichment
group because I couldn't find anything
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:online at all when I was looking.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Oh, okay.
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:Shay: I think I got the idea, and it's
a long time ago now, but I think I
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:got the idea from the, um, zoo groups.
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:'cause there was some for zookeepers,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.
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:Right.
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:Shay: it just puzzled me that there
wasn't one for dogs when we, we
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:were all keeping them in our homes.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Shay: I started my own.
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:And, and that really is, is one of, it was
the right, wasn't because I was brilliant,
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:it because it was just the right thing
at the right time and it really took off.
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:You know, I had thousands and
thousands of members in no time.
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:And then other, other groups appear with
similar names and it just grew from there.
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:And now it's everywhere.
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:You don't, don't see a
behaviour conference without it
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:mentioned or a workshop horror.
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:So I, I like to think I had a little
part to play in that and it makes
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Yeah, definitely.
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:Yeah.
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:Fair play.
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:Definitely.
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:Um, one of your books is all about
enrichment as well, isn't it?
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:Shay: Absolutely.
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:Yeah.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Shay: and, and
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,
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:Shay: the first book to be
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
that was the first one.
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:Shay: now, but it's the first book to
be written solely for dog enrichment.
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:It's,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.
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:Shay: does seem odd.
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:now there's loads and, and loads, which is
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
you can always, you'll always be
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:one of the, you are always the first
though, so that's a good accolade.
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:Shay: Yeah.
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:It's
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
That's, that's brilliant.
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:I've got one of your books as well.
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:I've got puppy nurture, but I think
this one's been released again,
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:isn't it Sha if I got that wrong,
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:Shay: No, you got that wrong.
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:KKKK nine.
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:Enrichment is the only
one with a second edition.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Ah, there we go.
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:Right?
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:Yep.
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:Okay, so is that done now?
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:I did see something
that you were doing it.
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:Yeah,
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:Shay: Yeah, that one's done.
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:And I'm working on a book which is taking
much longer than the others, which is
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:just about, um, recall, um, because of
the problems people have with recall.
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:But it's the first time I've
written a whole book on just one
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:behaviour, if you know what I mean.
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:So
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,
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:Shay: quite a, it's
quite challenging really.
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:'cause you don't wanna fill it
with waffle to make it a book.
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:All it has to be meaningful.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.
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:Shay: if, if, if you look at my
training book, you know, the, the,
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:the recall exercise takes up, I
don't know, two or three pages, uh,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.
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:Shay: So you're trying to write
a whole book on that one subject.
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:So it has a lot of, it's in
a holistic approach really.
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:It has a lot of, um.
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:Things that will benefit the
relationship and benefit the
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:recall and, and stuff like that.
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:And building up slowly.
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:And I'm, I'm only about
halfway through, so,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Oh, okay.
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:Shay: it's very slow going.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
I'm, I'm, I'm told that, um, they
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:do sometimes take a while as a bit
of labor of love writing a book.
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:Shay: Abso, you have to, you
have to see it that way really.
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:I, I, I sort of, for me,
it's sort of like a therapy.
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:It's just some
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
That's nice.
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:Shay: being able to write things down.
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:And it's not all the hustle and
bustle of Facebook or social media,
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:you know, it's just your little
space to, to write whatever you want
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
You could
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:Shay: don't get much argument about it.
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:You know,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No,
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:Shay: the, the, the people who are
reading it are, are say at home, not, not
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.
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:Not behind a, yeah.
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:Shay: every little word.
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:Yeah.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Not behind a keyboard.
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:So it's almost a bit of
an escapism I gather.
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:Shay: there's, there's,
there's no money in it really.
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:It's not a business.
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:It has to be a passion.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Shay: there's, there's just
so many books out there now.
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:Everybody has, you know, you can,
you don't even need a publisher.
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:You can self-publish.
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:It's very easy.
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:everyone's writing them.
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:Some are not very good to start with.
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:And then now you've got that, um,
AI stuff coming in, which Amazon are
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:willing to, to sell just about anything,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.
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:Shay: it.
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:Um, even a computer,
they're not very good.
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:The technology's not there yet to
make the books very good there, but
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:if they pay for the advertising, which
they do, they get their book up there
253
:in all the searches, and that's what
people are buying, unfortunately.
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:So it's a very difficult marketplace.
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:So you, you know, you have to just
do it for yourself and enjoy your
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:work being out there for people if
they, if they choose to read it.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Exactly.
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:So your book that you are in
the middle of then, is it just
259
:gonna be ready when it's ready?
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:You just take your time with it.
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:Shay: I, I, people keep asking
me and I keep, I keep, I
262
:move the goalpost each time,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
That's fine.
264
:Shay: the, the, I was hoping this
summer, but it's, uh, there's, there's
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:still quite a lot to do and I'm
getting a puppy in four weeks time,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I've
seen, I've seen you're getting a puppy.
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:Yeah.
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:So puppy nurture.
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:Then you, you, you've, you
know, you've got, you know what
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:you do with your new puppy,
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:Shay: Yeah.
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:I'll, I'll reread the book
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
you'll reread the bit.
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:So what number was this?
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:Was this number two or number three?
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:Because you've got a few out
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:Shay: but Canine Enrichment had a second
edition, so it depends how you, how you
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
how you do it.
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:Shay: Um, I, I have kept
the original on sale.
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:I took it off sale for a while, but
then I put it back on very cheap
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:'cause people seem to want it so.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
fair enough.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:Well I have, I'll definitely
have a lookout for that one.
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:Um, I dunno what made me brought that.
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:I think I saw it in, in one of your
groups I was in and I went and got it.
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:But I do know you had some others,
so I will be looking out for those
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:Shay: Yeah,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
yes, you are new.
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:Shay: that puppy nurture is the
one I'm most proud of really.
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:It's not the
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh.
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:Shay: I'd ever read, but I, I was
really, really pleased with that
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:book, more so than, than any of
the other books that I've written.
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:Um,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: okay.
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:Shay: you know, I, I've, there is
so many puppy books out there, just
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:everyone seems to write a puppy book.
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:And I suppose that's when people are
buying and looking around is when they
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:get a puppy, they're looking for what to
get and what they need and, and all that.
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:But they're not very good.
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:Uh,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.
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:Shay: had, I just had to write
one that didn't have something
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:in it that didn't make me cringe.
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:'cause I've not
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That,
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:Shay: yet.
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:So
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
fair enough.
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:Shay: I was pleased to have that one.
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:You know, even some of the really,
I'm not gonna mention 'em for obvious
314
:reasons, but some of the really famous
ones that, that, you know, the highest
315
:sellers in the country have got pages in
there where you've just shake your head,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.
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:Shay: te teaching people about separation
anxiety by locking a dog in a room.
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:And it's just
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh God.
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:Shay: These
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's.
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:Shay: be the good ones.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:That's nuts.
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:Alright, well I'm glad you've
brought out a good one.
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:We definitely recommending that more.
327
:Um, yeah, so you mentioned your new
puppy, so four weeks to, to moose
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:arriving you on count, you on countdown.
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:Shay: Yeah.
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:Get getting updates pup updates virtually
every day from, from the breeders.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Shay: Very
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: So
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:Shay: Uh.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: what
mind, um, if you don't mind me asking,
336
:what made you go for a new puppy?
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:Just felt you, you were missing
having a puppy around or?
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:Shay: as, as we're talking about
enrichment, um, the, probably the
339
:biggest reason is that, you know,
I, I like to have more than one dog.
340
:And I, I, my dogs, um, a few years
ago, both in the same year, both
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.
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:Shay: different cancers.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.
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:Shay: what, um, Mr.
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:B, my Labrador died young.
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:He was only nine years old, so that was
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
He's in this book.
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:He's in this book, isn't he?
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:Mr.
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:BI saw that Barney.
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:Shay: I think, yeah, that's
the one I dedicated to him.
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:Um, and we had Daisy as well.
353
:It was a bit older.
354
:She was 14, but she had, uh, cancer
as well the same year later that
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.
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:Shay: six months later.
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:So.
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:Then I, I, I, I got my current
dog, uh, Monty, and I've just
359
:been waiting really for the right
time to bring in another one.
360
:And I just think the, the greatest
form of enrichment, if you can
361
:do it, it's not for everyone.
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:I'm not saying that at all.
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:If you can do it, it's for them
to have another canine companion.
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:I, I think
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Shay: it's
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
how old's now?
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:Shay: he's two and a half.
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Oh, so still a good agent
370
:to have a little playmate.
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:Shay: yeah.
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:He, he, he will probably revert to
puppy hood a little bit, not that
373
:he's ever completely got out of it.
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:Um,
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
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:Shay: it'll, it'll be fun.
377
:Let's say,
378
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Oh, I can't wait for all the updates.
379
:I've already seen some cute little
pictures of, of moose, but I can't
380
:wait until you, you bring him home?
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:Shay: oh, he is gorgeous
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Yeah, he does.
383
:Is he the only one that's that
color out of the litter as well?
384
:Shay: there.
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:There's two out of eight
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:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh wow.
387
:Shay: other one's a girl.
388
:So I,
389
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Oh, okay.
390
:Shay: de, I definitely know
which one's mine, so I'm sorted.
391
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Brilliant.
392
:Wow.
393
:Can't wait for moose and all the moose
related posts to, to come out from you.
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:So I look forward to that.
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:So we're gonna be moving on to
our next section, which is all
396
:about what is enrichment and
what and why does it matter.
397
:Um, people often think of enrichment
as just given their dog a puzzle
398
:toy, but it's so much more than that.
399
:Shay, how do you define enrichment please?
400
:Shay: Yeah, and, and surprisingly
I'm not really into the puzzle toys
401
:everyone expects that will be, but,
uh, I, I, I don't find dogs are that
402
:good at solving complex puzzles.
403
:I just,
404
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Mm mm Why make it hard?
405
:Shay: ex Well exactly, that's the
other thing where people go wrong.
406
:I think with enrichment they think it's
about making it hard rather than engaging.
407
:So it's a, I think that's one of
the big mistakes that you see.
408
:But for me, and I was only thinking about
this again recently with you to coming
409
:back on here 'cause I think everyone
who asks me that question probably gets
410
:a slightly different answer because
you change as it evolves and you know,
411
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.
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:Shay: and, and all the rest of it.
413
:So, and so now I like to say that
enrichment is giving back and that,
414
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Love that.
415
:Shay: the reason it came in in zoos
and was needed back in, I dunno,
416
:that the early eighties it started
to really get big ens zoos is
417
:because it became o obvious that the
animals weren't faring very well.
418
:Um, in such confinement.
419
:'cause basically they're not able to
do the behaviours they would be doing.
420
:They're not able to even do replacement
behaviours 'cause their, their
421
:confinement is so small compared
422
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm
423
:Shay: know, living a world life.
424
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm
425
:Shay: so it's, it's really about, um,
giving back some of the opportunities
426
:that are lost due to captivity.
427
:And people don't often think of
dogs as being in captivity or
428
:being, uh, captive animals, but
429
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm
430
:Shay: are, they're, they're confined to
our little lives in our little houses.
431
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
They are.
432
:Shay: and, and so we have to give
opportunity for behaviour, you
433
:know, that's gonna benefit them.
434
:So that's what I think is about now is,
is just giving those opportunities back.
435
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,
436
:Shay: And,
437
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
love that.
438
:Shay: you know, the, the, the thing
is that the animal was born to.
439
:with their environment.
440
:That's why they've got
such an advanced brain.
441
:And, you know,
442
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm
443
:Shay: have got an advanced brain and
to make choices and to seek food and
444
:to explore and to even to avoid danger.
445
:But in, in our lives, all those things
are pretty much taken away from 'em.
446
:They, you know, even avoiding
danger, which seems, say it like
447
:that, seems daft, doesn't it?
448
:But they
449
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm
450
:Shay: have that choice.
451
:We've got 'em on a leash.
452
:Uh, they, they've got, they've
got no choice where they live,
453
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
That's it.
454
:Shay: so it is trying to some of
those, um, things back really, and,
455
:and stimulate their mind and, and, and,
and help with their development and
456
:just give them an active, um, mind.
457
:You've
458
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
459
:Shay: at the, the, the
problems with children.
460
:Um, it's known about a bit
more now, but from years
461
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.
462
:Shay: to when I was young.
463
:Really?
464
:If, if you didn't, if they
didn't get the opportunities.
465
:That people get now really with
interaction and development and
466
:going to, uh, nursery schools.
467
:Like they, I've got a little
granddaughter in nursery school now,
468
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Ah,
469
:Shay: the things they do,
it's just, it's a joy.
470
:They send photos over of all their
activities and I, and, but you just think
471
:of that in a development term, how many
children they're interacting with and
472
:how many things they're going to see.
473
:And rather than maybe being stuck
at home until the age of four, if
474
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.
475
:Shay: stimulation in that home.
476
:And,
477
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.
478
:Shay: and, and so, you know, it's not as
serious with a dog obviously, but it's the
479
:same sort of principle and, you know, the
480
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
481
:Shay: needs stimulation if
it's gonna develop well.
482
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It does.
483
:Brilliant.
484
:I love that.
485
:And what I kind of get from that
is giving back, but it's almost
486
:giving back their freedom, isn't it?
487
:To a degree.
488
:Shay: Yeah, absolutely.
489
:And one, one of the
490
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
491
:Shay: that I've sort of got
interested in a bit more, um, recently
492
:is, um, is the idea of agency.
493
:And, and when you look at that, it's
more than just being about choice.
494
:It's agency is there for animals to
develop to, to, to build confidence,
495
:to explore and, and feel, you know,
496
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.
497
:Shay: they build confidence by being
able to make choices because they can
498
:investigate something, they can have
a little look or they can back off,
499
:run away over way when they're free.
500
:When in captivity you haven't got those
choices, so they don't feel as secure.
501
:Um, most likely.
502
:So we've, you know, we've got a job
to do in looking after 'em, I think
503
:more than people think we have.
504
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Yeah, definitely.
505
:We are seeing that word agency branded
around a lot more now, aren't we?
506
:Shay: Yeah, I, I, I think the thing took,
for me anyway, um, I wrote a piece last
507
:year for operas the, uh, Skinner magazine
508
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right?
509
:Shay: um, choice and stuff like that.
510
:And that's what really
got me thinking about it.
511
:And really, when you look at it,
it's, it's a big chunk of it is
512
:about their ability to develop them
513
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.
514
:Shay: not, it's not just choice.
515
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
516
:Brilliant.
517
:Um, what happens Shay, when
a dog isn't getting enough
518
:enrichment in their daily lives?
519
:Shay: It's an interesting, um, topic.
520
:I think that because, um, we, we think
of, um, behaviour problems all the
521
:time because they're the things that
are causing us humans, uh, a problem.
522
:But I often think of the ones that
go the other way, and there must be
523
:loads of dogs like this that just
shut down and, and you know, they just
524
:get used to doing nothing all day.
525
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm,
526
:Shay: always gonna be obvious
in behaviour problems.
527
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.
528
:Shay: your dog will just be, I, I
would use the word depressed and,
529
:you know, people might not like
that word for, for an animal, but
530
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
No, I know what you're saying.
531
:Shay: I would describe it.
532
:If they've got no joy in life and, you
know, nothing seems to matter to them, I
533
:would describe that as, as, as depression.
534
:So you've got, I, especially
when they're young, you've got
535
:a lack of brain development.
536
:Um, not just the ethics of it.
537
:It's, you know, if you've got a dog that's
not developing properly or not stimulated
538
:properly, you're gonna get other issues.
539
:You, you can't expect to have everything
you want from the dog if their brain
540
:isn't even developing properly.
541
:you've got the behaviour
problems where dogs
542
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Excuse me.
543
:Sorry.
544
:Shay: and is making an appearance.
545
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
it's making me sneeze.
546
:Shay: dogs will try and often try and,
um, fulfill their own lives by getting
547
:into mischief and getting into bins
and, you know, chewing up the furniture.
548
:And so you've got all that side of
it and then you've got the boredom
549
:and, and, uh, going back to agency,
I think a lack of confidence because
550
:there was not enough stimulation,
not enough development, not enough.
551
:Letting the dog investigate
different things.
552
:And, and, and overall you end
up with poor mental wellbeing.
553
:I.
554
:But, but it can be odd to, know,
put an exact figure on that because
555
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
556
:Shay: who even sees it, you know, it's
557
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Yeah, that made me feel a bit sad.
558
:Like if a dog's feeling
depressed, it's quite a, sorry,
559
:state of affairs, isn't it?
560
:If they're not getting Wow.
561
:That enrichment, that, that, that, that,
562
:Shay: but looking back, I've
seen lots of dogs in that state.
563
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.
564
:Shay: of dogs when I think about it
now, that don't that spark in their
565
:relationship with their, uh, guardian
at all, because they've never learned
566
:that their behaviour influences anything
because they, they've just, you know,
567
:it's all exciting when they're a pup.
568
:Sure.
569
:But when a novelty wears off and it,
and it often does, they become a bit of
570
:a, a burden to the, to the guardian and
they're just sort of forgotten about.
571
:And we need to find ways of,
it's not just about the dog.
572
:I always think people will always
say, oh, it's the dog's walk.
573
:It's the dog's this, and, but.
574
:The, the guardian needs
to find joy in it too.
575
:So you need to find ways of enjoying
your dog as you're not gonna do it.
576
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Yeah, absolutely.
577
:I guess that's where like the
different sports, like come in like,
578
:you know, hoopers, agility, scent
work, doing stuff for your dog to
579
:build on that bond and relationship.
580
:Shay: Yeah, absolutely.
581
:And when I started the enrichment start,
actually going right to back to the
582
:beginning when I started the group, I was
thinking more along the lines of dogs that
583
:are stuck at home, not dogs that are out
doing all these dog sports and all of it.
584
:They don't need it so much, or they're
less likely to need it because they've
585
:got a full active life with somebody who
takes them out and about and does stuff.
586
:But
587
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.
588
:Um.
589
:Shay: I always remember reading
a survey very long time ago, I'm
590
:talking about over 30 years ago,
that the R-S-P-C-A did how many.
591
:actually got walked every day.
592
:Uh, it was, I can't remember the
figures, but it was staggeringly low
593
:of dogs that never even left the house
or on a regular walk or, and that's
594
:not to say that all dogs need a walk.
595
:Um, 'cause some dogs, it's, it's
not the right thing for them.
596
:It's too much for them or they've
597
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
598
:Shay: but generally dogs should be going
out and about and being part of your life,
599
:in my view, not, not locked up at home.
600
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
601
:Agreed.
602
:Shay: that's what I was more thinking
of when I started in Richmond.
603
:It was for these dogs that
are often stuck at home.
604
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
605
:Yeah.
606
:Brilliant.
607
:Um, are you able to break down
the different types of enrichment
608
:and why they're all important?
609
:I,
610
:Shay: So for me, I made my own when
I was studying, um, in Richmond
611
:and stuff like that at uni.
612
:None of the, there's lots of different
ways that have been used to categorize
613
:the different elements of enrichment.
614
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.
615
:Shay: none of them really, I.
616
:I, I wasn't totally
comfortable with any of 'em.
617
:It didn't make, uh, complete sense to me.
618
:I, I don't think, audio is ever going
to, um, be a big thing in, in canine in
619
:Richmond, although some people play the
music and, and that, but it's not, it's
620
:not quite the same as old faction, you
know, so it doesn't even compare, does it?
621
:So, so I,
622
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.
623
:Shay: I did and that, that sort of formed,
um, what I did with the enrichment book.
624
:Really, that's the way I broke
it down into different segments.
625
:So I, um, and, and this one,
they all overlap a little bit,
626
:the different, um, categories.
627
:Um.
628
:Um, but they do that, however you look at
it, however you look at enrichment, uh,
629
:at whatever the category sort of thing is.
630
:but one you never see
anywhere, which I have in mind.
631
:And the first thing to
consider is actually safety.
632
:And, and, you know, you think
how, how is safety enrichment?
633
:But if the dog doesn't feel safe,
never gonna have an enriched life.
634
:Safety comes before everything else.
635
:You know, mammals need to find
a place of safety else, else.
636
:That's their biggest concern.
637
:Nothing else matters so much as safety.
638
:Um, so, so you've always gotta look at,
you know, you want to be their place
639
:of safety, uh, really, which is why
I'm so opposed to aversive training
640
:and, and those sort of practices.
641
:But the way I, the way I, uh, explain
it in, in, when I do talks on it.
642
:Is that if you can imagine sitting
on a beach, if, if that's what
643
:you like, it's not gonna work.
644
:If you don't like that, um, reading
your nice, uh, your favorite book and
645
:drinking your favorite drink, and it's
all lovely, peaceful, beautiful beach
646
:with a, you know, beautiful clear sea.
647
:Um, and then you take those exact
same things, that nice deck chair and
648
:that nice book and that nice drink,
and you put them in the middle of
649
:the M 25 on the central reservation,
um, you're, you're suddenly not gonna
650
:find any of that enriching, are you?
651
:It it's not possible because
you are bothered about your
652
:safety, uh, rightly so.
653
:So, um, enrichment isn't, these things
aren't enriching if you don't feel safe.
654
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
655
:Shay: your dog a Kong
656
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I,
657
:Shay: with fireworks
going off next to them.
658
:it's, so safety is a big thing
for me, uh, in enrichment.
659
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.
660
:Shay: I go to food foraging,
which is a different category.
661
:And, and that's a massive category.
662
:and I must say when, when I
started enrichment, that's what
663
:it, that's how I thought of really
as food, because it's so easy
664
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
665
:Shay: dogs have to eat.
666
:We all have to eat.
667
:And in, in, in, in, if there wasn't
in captivity or any look at any other
668
:animal, how much time they spend,
resources they put into getting enough
669
:calories, you know, finding that
food, hunting, whatever it is, even
670
:if it's grazing, they're spending
a lot of time doing that activity.
671
:Um, and putting a lot of effort into it.
672
:'cause it's what's gonna keep 'em alive.
673
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.
674
:Shay: and then for years and
years and years and years.
675
:We've just put their food down
in front of them in a bowl.
676
:And the two, I'm not saying you have
to just do one or the other, but
677
:the, the contrast between the two
of those things is just so vast.
678
:If you, I mean, I often feed
my dog in a bowl these days.
679
:I didn't feed years.
680
:Um, but if you're struggling for
things to find, to fulfill your
681
:dog in an enrichment, enriching
way, that is the obvious go-to.
682
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.
683
:Shay: about making their
food difficult to, um, access
684
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.
685
:Shay: It's about engagement
and making it interesting.
686
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
687
:Shay: them the opportunity to be
successful, not, not making it difficult.
688
:Too many, too many people
do that, and they'll,
689
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
690
:Shay: I, I wrap food up in a towel.
691
:Um, I think I started
that craze off years ago.
692
:Um, food up in a towel.
693
:It is surprisingly not as easy as
you would think for a dog to us.
694
:You just think, oh, it's just unroll it.
695
:And you could teach a dog to just
unroll it properly and it'd be easy,
696
:but if you don't do that, they're all
over the place with it and it all gets,
697
:so it's not that it's not that easy.
698
:Um, but then I see people only
recently on TikTok saying, oh no,
699
:they've been doing it all wrong.
700
:Doing that.
701
:That's not difficult enough.
702
:You've
703
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh God.
704
:Shay: there and then you've
gotta tie the towel in a knot.
705
:It's like, give the dog a chance.
706
:It's just, it's just supposed
to be fun and engaging.
707
:So, you know, so
708
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
don't want it to be frust.
709
:You don't want it to
be frustrating, do you?
710
:Like you say, it'll be fun.
711
:Shay: So I always try and stress the
point now, you know, it's supposed
712
:to be engaging, not difficult,
713
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
714
:Shay: on.
715
:Uh, I got another, uh, category, which
I call non-food activities, and, and
716
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.
717
:Shay: that came in
because too many people.
718
:Um, concentrated on the food and, and,
and you don't want your relationship
719
:with your dog to be all about food
because life isn't all about food.
720
:And, and you can make the
dog obsessive over food.
721
:Not like you need much
help when you're a Labrador
722
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
723
:Shay: am,
724
:So you've got non-food activity
and, and that can just be, um, like
725
:playing with toys, like flirt poles
and, and stuff like that, which
726
:don't have to involve food at all.
727
:The dog is just enjoying
it for enjoyment itself.
728
:'cause it finds it fun.
729
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
730
:Shay: um, natural behaviours
I think is a real big one.
731
:That's another category.
732
:So there's five altogether categories,
um, natural behaviours, and ju these
733
:are just ways of thinking about it.
734
:You know, they're not all totally
separate, but it, it, but it makes you
735
:think about what your dog might need.
736
:And the most, the most obvious
for, for dogs is, is, um,
737
:scenting, uh, being able to sniff,
738
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.
739
:Shay: doing, doing olfactory
games and, and stuff like that.
740
:They just, couldn't recommend it enough.
741
:You know, if you only did one thing with
your dog, it would be to, to eng engage.
742
:Let them engage in
olfaction of, of some sort.
743
:Do do something because That's
sort of what they was born to do.
744
:That, uh, and it's been found in, you
know, studies that it increases optimism,
745
:which is a great way, way of showing that
it's increasing their mental wellbeing.
746
:Uh, 'cause
747
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
748
:Shay: is, is strongly
linked to, to wellbeing.
749
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
750
:Shay: So it's just a,
it's a no brainer, really.
751
:And then the
752
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
753
:Shay: is, uh, companionship
and bonding, um, which brings
754
:us on to getting another dog.
755
:And, you know, it doesn't always
have to be with another dog because
756
:dogs bond with humans extremely well.
757
:Um, so dogs can live quite
happily on their own.
758
:Um, but they need that, that, that
figure in their lives, even if it's
759
:a human, um, to really bond with them
and you to be their attachment figure.
760
:And just like in, in children who,
who have an attachment figure, usually
761
:their mother, you know, it can be their
father as well as just have to be one.
762
:But, but usually, especially when
they're small, them, your mother is
763
:your strongest attachment figure and.
764
:The thing I always think with dogs,
the interesting thing is that I think
765
:we've bred them over the years and
developed them to stay quite infantile.
766
:I don't, many dogs don't really grow up.
767
:I might, I might be bringing in
my influence with Labradors again
768
:here, but you know, they just like
humans, they play into adulthood.
769
:Um, a lot of animals don't because
they're more interested in having to
770
:get enough food and stuff like that.
771
:But we've done that.
772
:We've bred, um, infantile
features on the face and, and
773
:that all has a knock on effect.
774
:So, and don't grow up to be independent.
775
:They grow up, you know, they're
with us their own lives.
776
:And so I think they do have quite
a lot of, uh, um, childishness
777
:about them, if you like.
778
:Um, a lot of dogs do at, at least.
779
:And so probably that attachment
figure and that bonding is even more
780
:important because it could be like,
it's a, a, a, a parent child type.
781
:Type relationship.
782
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,
783
:Shay: And that's, so that's
how I sort of look at it.
784
:And that's why I think the, the
companionship is so important,
785
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
definitely.
786
:Shay: bond, you know, for them
787
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
788
:Shay: of safety and trust and,
and to be able to enjoy life.
789
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
790
:Okay.
791
:Can I just summarize those
and repeat them back to you?
792
:So Shay's, different types of enrichment.
793
:There were five, we had safety at
number one, then food foraging.
794
:Was that right?
795
:I dunno if I caught the end of yet.
796
:Food foraging.
797
:Shay: have, they don't necessarily have
to be in that ho order that's just, you
798
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that's
just that, that's just your fight.
799
:And then we got non-food
activities, natural behaviours,
800
:and companionship and bonding.
801
:Shay: Yeah.
802
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Lovely.
803
:Right.
804
:So our next, um, section is all
about enrichment for different
805
:dogs and tailoring activities
to suit their individual needs.
806
:How does a dog's breed history
and personality influence the type
807
:of enrichment that they may need?
808
:Shay?
809
:Shay: I don't tend to look at
as much as you might think or
810
:as much as other people do.
811
:I'm not saying there's nothing in that.
812
:'cause there is, you know, my
Labrador of, of loved water.
813
:Um,
814
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Food and water.
815
:Shay: but my first Labrador certainly
never swam 'cause he never went in
816
:water deeper than he could paddle.
817
:But he loved to splash
about in water, but he
818
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Uh.
819
:Shay: enough to to, to take the plunge.
820
:Uh,
821
:and, and you absolutely have to
look at the individual, um, because
822
:there's more, I think, more difference
between individuals of the same
823
:breed than there is between breeds.
824
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.
825
:Shay: so I always think that's a, a.
826
:I, I think it's good to consider what
your dog was bred to do, like, um, border
827
:Collies and you know, you just watch 'em.
828
:There's, there's five or six that
walk where I walk every morning,
829
:go around in a group together, and
you just watch their behaviour.
830
:And it is different to, to most dogs'
behaviour the way, the way they stalk
831
:and run around and circle background
and, you know, so there's a lot in,
832
:in genetics, but it's still massively
important to look at your individual dog
833
:and, and learn what their preferences are.
834
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
835
:Shay: I, I did some research when I was at
university on, on, it was on old faction.
836
:And the difference between breeds and
837
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm
838
:Shay: expect to see is stronger old
faction ability, olfactory ability
839
:in the breeds that have been bred.
840
:detection.
841
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm
842
:Shay: Which was generally the case, but
one of the dogs that scored in the test
843
:I was doing high as any other dog in the
whole thing, um, including caucus spaniels
844
:and dogs like that was a greyhound.
845
:Um, was able to detect and indicate
on, on the scent that a caucus
846
:span, you know, at, at the same Um,
847
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.
848
:Shay: like that are quite surprise
surprised me, you know, you know, I
849
:was already ready to write up that
they were useless at it and, and,
850
:um, you know, I was expecting them
not to be that interested, um, back
851
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,
852
:Shay: So it's very, very surprising
that a dog, which was bred
853
:to, to be a sight hound and to
chase what it could see, could.
854
:Pick up the detection, you know,
the, the olfactory ability of dogs,
855
:wherever the breed is absolutely
phenomenal, even with a brachycephalic
856
:and, and you've got deformities inside
and, and all the rest of it, which
857
:I've, you know, written up about.
858
:still absolutely phenomenal and it, and
it still means a, a hell of a lot to them.
859
:So you've got, you've absolutely gotta
look at the individuals, um, for that
860
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
yeah, yeah.
861
:All about working with the dog
that's in front of you basically,
862
:Shay: Yeah, absolutely.
863
:And
864
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
865
:Shay: as they age, it's, I, there's
nothing they can't do really.
866
:It's, I, well, I think it's just
too easy to say, oh no, they're
867
:old, they don't need to do anything.
868
:And it,
869
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
870
:Shay: it's, it's about just making
things a little bit simpler,
871
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
872
:Shay: if you've got a, a,
a really old dog, you might
873
:not wrap food up in a towel.
874
:You might just put a soft toy
over it and they've just got
875
:nudge off or pour it off, or,
876
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
877
:Shay: an.
878
:and again, you can, you can see
I've got a passion for olfaction.
879
:'cause again, coming back to the,
the olfactory system, the Doug's
880
:sense of smell is that the, the,
881
:the receptors in the olfactory, um, at the
back of the nose in the, in the olfactory
882
:recess actually reproduce, uh, themselves
every about eight weeks I think it is.
883
:So you might think you've got a
14-year-old dog, but the scent
884
:receptors are, are, are, are
pretty new and active and, and
885
:brilliant still, even at that age.
886
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.
887
:Um, I think that brings us onto our next
question about senior dogs, but what
888
:I was gonna say is that dogs may lose
their sight or their hearing, but they're
889
:never gonna lose their sense of smile.
890
:It's their strongest sense, isn't it
891
:Shay: Now it's very unlikely you
do have some dogs with, with, um,
892
:I forget what they call it now,
a nod smear, something like that.
893
:Uh, which basically, um, the
loss of a, the sense of smell,
894
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: really?
895
:I never knew that.
896
:Shay: yeah, yeah.
897
:Uh, just like you can
get in humans so you, you
898
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh yeah,
899
:Shay: but it's, uh, I
think it's quite rare and,
900
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: right.
901
:Shay: looking at introducing, you
know, other things instead, obviously.
902
:Um,
903
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
904
:Shay: but it's, it's, yeah,
very, very important to him.
905
:I, I think more so than anything
else, other than safety really.
906
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
907
:Brilliant.
908
:So for those senior dogs or those that
may have some mobility issues, are
909
:there any lower impact enrichment ideas
that we can tell our listeners about?
910
:Shay: yeah, it doesn't, um, you.
911
:I, I'm not sure that age, but, but
like dogs who've done, um, agility
912
:and that sort of thing, you now have
the, the, I I'm saying new sports,
913
:but it's been around for a while now.
914
:You've got things like hoopers, which
is a lot less stress on joints and stuff
915
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
916
:Shay: yeah.
917
:So you can still get out and do stuff.
918
:And, and the scent thing is, you
know, no dog's ever gonna get
919
:bored with, um, sniffing around.
920
:Uh, that can make such a big difference.
921
:That's got nothing to do with age.
922
:You don't have to walk very far.
923
:You can even bring scents into the house
in, in, you know, I've seen people, um,
924
:bring in leaves in, in, in autumn, and for
925
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.
926
:Shay: to smell who can't
927
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
928
:Shay: anymore.
929
:I think that the thing to remember there
is the, is the safety side of it or the,
930
:it maybe not safety, but the dog feeling
safe in that if you've got an anxious
931
:dog, they might not like the smell of
other dogs in their, in their house.
932
:So you've gotta be a little bit
careful with, with the s sense
933
:that you're, you're bringing in.
934
:But, and I add.
935
:I had a 14-year-old,
uh, west Island Terrier.
936
:Um, and she was still learning new tricks.
937
:Um, I had to do a project for university
where they, I had to teach something that,
938
:that the dog had never learned before.
939
:I had, um, I had to do something with that
I'd never done and a totally new thing.
940
:And so it is like impossible to think
of anything with the Labrador I was
941
:training 'cause we'd just done everything.
942
:So I had to use Daisy for, for,
for, for this, um, shaping exercise.
943
:Uh, so she was still
learning stuff at that age.
944
:So, you know, the brain, you, you've
gotta go off the individual, like I
945
:say, um, you, there's, there's so much.
946
:You can do to make life easier.
947
:You know, if, if the dog's going
on the sofa, you can get a little
948
:stool for 'em to step up onto it.
949
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
950
:Shay: you know, they, they still
wanna lay on the sofa next year, but
951
:getting off can be quite, you know,
induce quite a lot of anxiety for 'em
952
:because they know it might be painful.
953
:And, and then I think you can get
behaviour problems coming in, in, in,
954
:you know, uh, peeing indoors and stuff
like that just because it's such an
955
:effort for 'em to, to do otherwise.
956
:So we've gotta, we've just gotta
tailor things really and, and simplify
957
:them, um, and just make them a bit
easier for the dog so, you know, they
958
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
959
:Shay: cope and still enjoy life.
960
:I think the thing to think really
is, is just not to give up on them.
961
:It should be for, for the years
of joy they've given us, too
962
:many people see their old dog as
just a bit of a pain really now.
963
:'cause
964
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh
965
:Shay: they don't get their
joy out of him or whatever.
966
:And, and really it's a privilege to
be able to look after 'em in their,
967
:in their later years, I think.
968
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.
969
:They're not with us long, so Yeah.
970
:I'd hate, I'd hate that.
971
:Shay: And like even things
like, uh, just come to mind.
972
:It's like, um, you, you get the
fabric food forages, um, that was
973
:introduced a couple of years ago.
974
:So if the dog doesn't like, you
know, the noise of things that
975
:clatter around and all these are all
nice and quiet and, and soft things
976
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
977
:Shay: a snuffle mat, things like that,
they could still, you know, there's
978
:nothing difficult about a snuffle mat.
979
:Most, they actually was over exaggerated
in how good they were, because most
980
:dogs find them ridiculously easy.
981
:But you can imagine a dog, an older
dog who's not getting out much.
982
:That snuffle mat could be a brilliant,
brilliant for them to be finding little
983
:bits of food in and foraging around in.
984
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Yeah, definitely.
985
:Um, so many guardians of nervous
or anxious dogs, um, that struggle
986
:with traditional activities.
987
:How can enrichment help
these dogs feel more secure?
988
:Shay,
989
:Shay: Well, I think it comes in, and
again, I never used to, this is new
990
:for me, really over recent years.
991
:'cause I, I, I never
992
:Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.
993
:Shay: in, in Richmond as, as a,
a problem behaviour solver if,
994
:you know, I mean, I was just
thinking of it as beating boredom.
995
:But, you know, it's developed over
the years and so now I think that
996
:enrichment can be done at home.
997
:So you've got anxious dogs or whatever,
much that you can do at home with the
998
:dog that they're then not experiencing
that anxiety outside and it allows them
999
:to build confidence and an opportunity
to be successful just like food foraging
:
00:43:50,521 --> 00:43:52,531
in the garden and, and stuff like that.
:
00:43:53,191 --> 00:43:54,991
Uh, and through that.
:
00:43:55,021 --> 00:44:01,171
Uh, activity, they gain confidence,
you know, you a sense search, um,
:
00:44:01,171 --> 00:44:04,561
a find it game or you know, they're
going off to, to find something
:
00:44:04,561 --> 00:44:05,671
you've hidden in the garden.
:
00:44:06,331 --> 00:44:10,651
I think, you know, allows them to build
confidence because, you know, they're,
:
00:44:10,651 --> 00:44:12,181
they're acting under their own steam.
:
00:44:12,181 --> 00:44:12,811
You are not.
:
00:44:13,681 --> 00:44:14,671
do this, do that.
:
00:44:14,671 --> 00:44:17,311
It's, you know, it is for
them to enjoy if they want to.
:
00:44:18,091 --> 00:44:21,661
Uh, so it gives them confidence
and it also gives them a focus.
:
00:44:21,661 --> 00:44:24,781
And they, they've got something,
you know, more constructive
:
00:44:24,781 --> 00:44:26,431
and, and more useful to do.
:
00:44:27,091 --> 00:44:30,631
And it allows us to work
with the dog without any real
:
00:44:30,631 --> 00:44:32,221
expectation being put on them.
:
00:44:32,371 --> 00:44:32,911
'cause if they've got
:
00:44:33,065 --> 00:44:33,355
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:44:33,391 --> 00:44:35,941
Shay: they've got anxiety, they've
got fears, they've got, you know,
:
00:44:36,331 --> 00:44:39,841
that's why I think enrichment is
brilliant in, in that area because
:
00:44:39,841 --> 00:44:41,881
we are not piling on more pressure.
:
00:44:41,911 --> 00:44:46,021
Nobody, probably very few people,
they're doing it wrong if they do.
:
00:44:46,021 --> 00:44:50,431
But most people aren't doing
enrichment activities with any great
:
00:44:50,431 --> 00:44:54,331
expectation of what the outcome's
got to be like, like you would with
:
00:44:54,331 --> 00:44:57,841
obedience or, you know, making the
dog sit and stay for 10 minutes.
:
00:44:57,841 --> 00:45:01,571
So there's a lot of pressure on dogs when
we are teach you those sort of behaviours
:
00:45:01,951 --> 00:45:04,471
that you just don't get in enrichment.
:
00:45:04,651 --> 00:45:05,131
It's not
:
00:45:05,195 --> 00:45:05,485
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:45:06,151 --> 00:45:08,761
Shay: how good you are, how
good the dog is, how you know,
:
00:45:08,945 --> 00:45:09,165
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No.
:
00:45:10,051 --> 00:45:11,551
Shay: it's about, you know.
:
00:45:12,361 --> 00:45:14,551
Engagement with, with, with the world.
:
00:45:14,945 --> 00:45:15,235
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:45:15,511 --> 00:45:21,931
Shay: I think it can, um, just help
take the pressure off all that and give
:
00:45:22,065 --> 00:45:22,545
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:45:23,101 --> 00:45:23,821
Shay: else to do.
:
00:45:23,881 --> 00:45:25,951
And you can use it out and
about, you know, you can,
:
00:45:27,961 --> 00:45:31,711
I'm a little bit torn to
say it and I'll explain why.
:
00:45:31,771 --> 00:45:35,941
So you can do these activities when
you're out and about to prevent, um,
:
00:45:35,941 --> 00:45:41,461
the dog misbehaving, whatever, being
reactive, running off somewhere else,
:
00:45:41,461 --> 00:45:44,431
paying attention to something else you
don't want 'em to play with by playing
:
00:45:44,431 --> 00:45:46,411
enrichment games, doing a scent game.
:
00:45:46,831 --> 00:45:51,691
But really, I, I think that
brings it into a little bit,
:
00:45:52,741 --> 00:45:55,621
rather than it being enrichment.
:
00:45:56,295 --> 00:45:56,415
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.
:
00:45:56,671 --> 00:45:58,441
Shay: so you, you end
up with a bit of a mix.
:
00:45:58,441 --> 00:45:59,971
I don't call that enrichment.
:
00:45:59,971 --> 00:46:03,331
You are not doing that for
the dog's sake to increase.
:
00:46:03,706 --> 00:46:06,526
Their, their, their
level of en engagement.
:
00:46:06,526 --> 00:46:11,146
You are doing it, um, to, to try and
avoid something else, which I'm not saying
:
00:46:11,146 --> 00:46:15,101
that's not useful, but I don't consider
it to be purely enrichment either.
:
00:46:15,990 --> 00:46:17,910
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Yeah, totally understand that.
:
00:46:17,970 --> 00:46:18,149
Yeah.
:
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:18,660
Brilliant.
:
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:19,560
Thank you.
:
00:46:19,620 --> 00:46:22,350
We are gonna be moving on to
our next section, which is
:
00:46:22,350 --> 00:46:27,419
all about easy budget friendly
enrichment ideas for everyday life.
:
00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:31,740
Um, one of the biggest misconceptions
is that enrichment has to be
:
00:46:31,740 --> 00:46:33,990
ex, uh, has to be expensive.
:
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:39,029
Um, but can you share any simple
low cost ideas that guardians,
:
00:46:39,089 --> 00:46:40,470
guardians could try at home?
:
00:46:41,176 --> 00:46:41,476
Shay: Yeah.
:
00:46:41,476 --> 00:46:43,006
And that is absolutely right.
:
00:46:43,066 --> 00:46:46,036
Um, I, I do remember one of the
problems when I first started
:
00:46:46,036 --> 00:46:49,486
the enrichment group is people
complaining about that's very thing.
:
00:46:49,984 --> 00:46:50,335
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right?
:
00:46:50,416 --> 00:46:55,546
Shay: of the, some of the
enrichment, um, toys are so expensive
:
00:46:55,964 --> 00:46:56,254
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:46:56,296 --> 00:46:59,566
Shay: they're not suitable for all people,
or they don't use them in the, in the
:
00:46:59,566 --> 00:47:04,456
right way, or they leave the dog, um,
not supervised and it gets destroyed.
:
00:47:04,456 --> 00:47:08,266
And, you know, some, some of these
toys are like 40, 50, 60 pound easily.
:
00:47:08,865 --> 00:47:09,255
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:47:09,856 --> 00:47:17,026
Shay: So it's not always cheap, but always
say that you don't need buy any of those
:
00:47:17,026 --> 00:47:21,856
things to give your dog an enriched,
you know, an enriching experience.
:
00:47:22,424 --> 00:47:22,875
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:47:23,916 --> 00:47:29,431
Shay: Some of the things I've done at home
is things like, um, toilet rule tubes.
:
00:47:29,805 --> 00:47:30,345
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:47:30,511 --> 00:47:32,341
Shay: that craze off
many years ago as well.
:
00:47:32,341 --> 00:47:36,241
Saving them all up, um, putting a
little treat in them, folding the ends
:
00:47:36,241 --> 00:47:42,511
over and then I, you can just give it
to the dog like that, but I saved all
:
00:47:42,511 --> 00:47:46,741
mine up and I had, I had hundreds, I've
got a video of it somewhere, and then
:
00:47:46,741 --> 00:47:50,641
I would just put a treat in about five
of them out of, you know, a couple of
:
00:47:50,641 --> 00:47:56,221
hundred, and then I'd tip 'em all out
on the floor and the dog would search
:
00:47:56,221 --> 00:47:57,631
to see which one had the food in.
:
00:47:57,901 --> 00:48:01,321
Then, then they're not ripping 'em all
open because dogs out aren't that silly.
:
00:48:01,531 --> 00:48:05,221
They're smelling which one's got the
food in and then opening just that one.
:
00:48:05,341 --> 00:48:06,871
So you wouldn't start at that level.
:
00:48:06,871 --> 00:48:11,071
You'd start at just having one with
food in and then having one with food
:
00:48:11,071 --> 00:48:13,861
in and one without, and the dog, you
know, finds which one's got the food
:
00:48:13,861 --> 00:48:15,241
in and you just build up to that.
:
00:48:15,525 --> 00:48:16,485
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
such a good idea?
:
00:48:16,861 --> 00:48:17,851
Shay: it's totally free.
:
00:48:17,851 --> 00:48:19,201
It's stuff you would throw away.
:
00:48:20,295 --> 00:48:23,625
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,
like cardboard boxes and packaging.
:
00:48:23,625 --> 00:48:23,955
Yeah.
:
00:48:23,955 --> 00:48:23,956
The,
:
00:48:24,646 --> 00:48:26,206
Shay: boxes is the obvious one.
:
00:48:26,266 --> 00:48:28,336
Uh, cereal packaging, stuff like that.
:
00:48:28,336 --> 00:48:32,146
You've just sort of gotta be
careful, especially with these
:
00:48:32,506 --> 00:48:35,296
big boxes that you're gonna get
off Amazon and big deliveries.
:
00:48:35,326 --> 00:48:40,486
'cause sometimes they've got staples in
them and, excuse me, my voice is going.
:
00:48:40,906 --> 00:48:44,596
And, um, so, and you've gotta be
careful of the glues that are used.
:
00:48:44,596 --> 00:48:48,106
And so you don't want dogs sitting
there chewing the cardboard.
:
00:48:48,106 --> 00:48:51,976
I think it's fine to, to rip it and
tear it and find what's inside it, but I
:
00:48:51,976 --> 00:48:53,836
would not use it if they're chewing it.
:
00:48:53,836 --> 00:48:56,356
I don't want the glues in their
mouth and stuff like that.
:
00:48:56,776 --> 00:49:02,236
Um, one of the things I do a lot is,
is just, um, getting a piece of food
:
00:49:02,236 --> 00:49:05,776
and flicking it across the floor and
it's, you know, it's as simple as that.
:
00:49:05,776 --> 00:49:09,736
And that has, in behaviour
work that has worked.
:
00:49:10,471 --> 00:49:14,461
Quite well in for dogs that
people have told me won't eat.
:
00:49:15,271 --> 00:49:18,181
as soon as you make that food come
alive and just flick it across the
:
00:49:18,181 --> 00:49:22,051
floor one piece at a time, suddenly
it's engaging for the dog and, and,
:
00:49:22,051 --> 00:49:26,611
and can help them, um, you know, get
their appetite to chase it and eat it.
:
00:49:27,515 --> 00:49:27,805
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:49:27,991 --> 00:49:28,291
Shay: Um,
:
00:49:28,484 --> 00:49:28,685
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that.
:
00:49:29,131 --> 00:49:33,001
Shay: the treasure hunt, again, it's just
things you're gonna feed them anyway.
:
00:49:33,301 --> 00:49:37,201
You, um, you can hide it around the house.
:
00:49:37,381 --> 00:49:38,791
Again, it's so simple.
:
00:49:39,541 --> 00:49:45,211
Uh, most dogs don't need much teaching
with this, but you would just put it
:
00:49:45,211 --> 00:49:47,491
down, let 'em see where you're putting
it, and they're gonna go and get it.
:
00:49:47,491 --> 00:49:49,741
And then you slowly increase that to, to
:
00:49:49,845 --> 00:49:50,235
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:49:50,611 --> 00:49:54,511
Shay: or more things and, and, and,
and putting it further out of sight.
:
00:49:54,511 --> 00:49:57,301
And then putting the dog in another room
and hiding them all and getting them
:
00:49:57,301 --> 00:50:02,251
to come in and, and searching for maybe
five or six little pots with food in it.
:
00:50:02,701 --> 00:50:03,586
And then with that game.
:
00:50:05,251 --> 00:50:09,001
I always have a, have a sort of a
finished queue so they know they've found
:
00:50:09,001 --> 00:50:11,251
them all, otherwise they're searching
around and there's nothing less.
:
00:50:11,251 --> 00:50:14,161
So, so I might have a treat
in my hand and say, all done.
:
00:50:14,161 --> 00:50:15,541
When they're all found and, and
:
00:50:15,885 --> 00:50:16,335
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:50:16,381 --> 00:50:17,071
Shay: something like that.
:
00:50:17,521 --> 00:50:20,941
Um, a handful of food
dropped in their toy box.
:
00:50:20,971 --> 00:50:25,231
You know, they've gotta find all these
bits of food in the bottom of a, a toy box
:
00:50:25,231 --> 00:50:27,031
that you might think the dog never uses.
:
00:50:27,031 --> 00:50:29,281
So it brings the toy box
back to life as well.
:
00:50:29,830 --> 00:50:30,120
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:50:30,271 --> 00:50:36,391
Shay: short training sessions or play
sessions, um, while the kettle boils, why
:
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:36,960
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: is more.
:
00:50:37,171 --> 00:50:38,161
Shay: for the kettle to boil
:
00:50:38,165 --> 00:50:38,455
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:50:38,491 --> 00:50:40,801
Shay: can just have a little
interaction with the dog.
:
00:50:41,221 --> 00:50:46,111
I do a thing where I've got three buckets
and I put 'em all together and then I just
:
00:50:46,111 --> 00:50:49,741
throw treats across the room or the garden
into the bucket, and then the dog has to
:
00:50:49,741 --> 00:50:52,111
go and work out which, um, bucket it's in.
:
00:50:52,351 --> 00:50:55,801
So it's, it's very, very easy and
most of my enrichment is easy, but
:
00:50:55,801 --> 00:50:57,451
it's about engagement, you know.
:
00:50:57,625 --> 00:50:57,915
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:50:57,931 --> 00:50:58,471
Shay: Um.
:
00:50:59,065 --> 00:50:59,355
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:50:59,506 --> 00:51:00,256
Shay: bottles.
:
00:51:00,376 --> 00:51:01,096
What, what?
:
00:51:01,126 --> 00:51:02,926
Dog doesn't love a plastic bottle.
:
00:51:03,286 --> 00:51:05,656
Um, they just totally free.
:
00:51:05,656 --> 00:51:07,396
You're gonna throw it
in the recycling later.
:
00:51:07,636 --> 00:51:10,306
They love squashing a plastic bottle up.
:
00:51:10,726 --> 00:51:12,766
Um, and plant pots.
:
00:51:12,796 --> 00:51:16,666
I've never known a dog that
doesn't adore an empty plant pot.
:
00:51:16,666 --> 00:51:20,116
If you, if you're doing planting in a
garden, I dunno what it is about 'em,
:
00:51:20,176 --> 00:51:25,486
they just absolutely love the way they,
the, the noise they make or, or whatever.
:
00:51:25,876 --> 00:51:30,916
Um, plastic, like beak, beaker
cups stack in, in, on top of each
:
00:51:30,916 --> 00:51:32,356
other with food in between them.
:
00:51:32,416 --> 00:51:35,746
You know, you put a treat in the cup
and then put another beaker on top,
:
00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:36,569
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,
:
00:51:36,646 --> 00:51:40,426
Shay: towels, which we've already
covered, covered, um, sniffing, even
:
00:51:40,426 --> 00:51:42,076
sniffing the shopping when it comes in.
:
00:51:42,376 --> 00:51:44,506
So I, I, I love that now.
:
00:51:44,566 --> 00:51:48,286
Uh, other, the dog sniffs around
all the shopping bags years ago.
:
00:51:48,706 --> 00:51:50,416
We'd have been telling
the dog off for that.
:
00:51:50,734 --> 00:51:51,025
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.
:
00:51:51,106 --> 00:51:54,736
Shay: think how things have changed
and it just makes me smile that, you
:
00:51:54,736 --> 00:51:57,706
know, I quite like the dog getting
in my way now and, and trying to
:
00:51:57,990 --> 00:51:59,310
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Sniffing in the bags.
:
00:51:59,326 --> 00:51:59,566
Shay: yeah,
:
00:51:59,850 --> 00:52:00,509
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
I love that.
:
00:52:00,646 --> 00:52:05,506
Shay: if they nix stuff and run off,
but if they can resist that temptation,
:
00:52:06,256 --> 00:52:08,836
it's just involving the dog more really.
:
00:52:08,836 --> 00:52:12,046
And, and like I said, it doesn't
have to cost anything at all.
:
00:52:12,475 --> 00:52:12,765
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:52:12,990 --> 00:52:13,410
Just.
:
00:52:13,456 --> 00:52:16,336
Shay: I do buy a lot of enrichment
stuff, or I have over the years.
:
00:52:16,336 --> 00:52:17,326
I don't so much now.
:
00:52:17,506 --> 00:52:21,646
But you don't have to, you can,
you can have, not about that.
:
00:52:22,695 --> 00:52:24,735
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Just,
um, sounds like just about using your
:
00:52:24,735 --> 00:52:29,205
imagination and just, you know, having fun
with it and just, it doesn't have to cost
:
00:52:29,205 --> 00:52:32,355
a lot, just things that you've got around
the home that you'd maybe throw away.
:
00:52:32,686 --> 00:52:32,986
Shay: yeah.
:
00:52:32,986 --> 00:52:35,446
Everything before you throw it
in the recycling is, is just
:
00:52:35,446 --> 00:52:37,246
to think, oh, could I use this?
:
00:52:37,306 --> 00:52:40,216
Could, could this, you know, anything
anyone's throwing away, I always
:
00:52:40,216 --> 00:52:44,296
think, could I use this before it gets
thrown away to, even if it's just to
:
00:52:44,296 --> 00:52:46,036
hide something in for the dog to find.
:
00:52:46,485 --> 00:52:47,300
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Yeah, definitely.
:
00:52:47,731 --> 00:52:48,061
Shay: is.
:
00:52:48,825 --> 00:52:50,805
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
scent work is one of the best
:
00:52:50,805 --> 00:52:52,420
ways to engage a dog's brain.
:
00:52:52,470 --> 00:52:53,985
We've spoken a bit about it.
:
00:52:54,255 --> 00:52:59,775
Are there any, um, easy scent based games
that don't require special equipment,
:
00:52:59,775 --> 00:53:03,195
so you could just do some scatter
feeding and find it and stuff like that?
:
00:53:03,931 --> 00:53:04,831
Shay: Yeah, absolutely.
:
00:53:04,831 --> 00:53:06,511
And again, I have to come back to.
:
00:53:07,621 --> 00:53:10,231
You know, even if you do nothing
else, let your dog stop and
:
00:53:10,231 --> 00:53:12,511
sniff because that's undervalued.
:
00:53:13,291 --> 00:53:16,051
know, it's, that's what
dogs need to do, you know.
:
00:53:16,531 --> 00:53:21,241
But the, the, the main scent things
that I do is either a food search
:
00:53:21,421 --> 00:53:22,771
and I call 'em different for things.
:
00:53:22,771 --> 00:53:25,711
So the dog knows if they're looking
for food or looking for a scent.
:
00:53:26,191 --> 00:53:30,601
So I'll do, I actually say to the dog,
uh, food search from doing this, but
:
00:53:30,601 --> 00:53:32,281
this is just hiding a piece of food.
:
00:53:33,031 --> 00:53:37,771
it, and it starts with letting the dog
see where you're putting it, and then
:
00:53:37,771 --> 00:53:40,681
you might just place it behind a box
so they can't see it, but they've seen
:
00:53:40,681 --> 00:53:42,451
where you put it and you build that up.
:
00:53:42,721 --> 00:53:44,552
You know, the dog's not silly.
:
00:53:44,881 --> 00:53:47,341
They, they, they learn
that really, really quick.
:
00:53:47,491 --> 00:53:52,021
And all you'll do is af as they, as
they go off to find it, you say food
:
00:53:52,021 --> 00:53:53,551
search and they know the game's on.
:
00:53:53,701 --> 00:53:56,371
And then you'll be able to do it
with them in a different room, put it
:
00:53:56,371 --> 00:53:57,961
wherever you like, or in the garden.
:
00:53:58,171 --> 00:54:00,961
And as soon as you say food search,
that's what they're looking for.
:
00:54:00,961 --> 00:54:02,371
Some food that they're allowed to have.
:
00:54:02,851 --> 00:54:05,071
Um, so, so that's a really good one.
:
00:54:05,071 --> 00:54:06,961
And then I do it without food as well.
:
00:54:07,396 --> 00:54:12,286
Um, and that for me, that involves using
catnip 'cause that's the scent I use.
:
00:54:13,051 --> 00:54:14,371
it is, it's really cheap.
:
00:54:14,371 --> 00:54:18,841
You can get some dried catnip, uh, online
and I just put that in a, like a plastic
:
00:54:18,841 --> 00:54:23,426
container with a lid on it and whatever
item I'm using, it might be like a, a
:
00:54:23,431 --> 00:54:25,051
stuffed mouse or something like that.
:
00:54:25,171 --> 00:54:28,171
I'll put that in the container
so it takes on the smell.
:
00:54:28,531 --> 00:54:31,951
I also do this with a 10 pound note, so
they go off and find the 10 pound note.
:
00:54:32,371 --> 00:54:36,481
But, but then you can do, you don't wanna
start with something like a 10 pound note.
:
00:54:36,481 --> 00:54:38,941
You wanna teach 'em the game
first with something they like
:
00:54:39,001 --> 00:54:40,501
picking up and, and chasing.
:
00:54:40,501 --> 00:54:44,431
And, and so you get the toy,
just throw it for 'em, like, you
:
00:54:44,431 --> 00:54:45,331
know, you're playing with it.
:
00:54:45,511 --> 00:54:49,981
And that slowly turns into a, a search
'cause then you'll throw it behind
:
00:54:49,981 --> 00:54:52,801
something or you'll hide it behind
something, or you'll put a box on top of
:
00:54:52,801 --> 00:54:55,711
it and, and, and you say, um, find it.
:
00:54:55,846 --> 00:54:57,181
And, and they go off to get it.
:
00:54:57,331 --> 00:55:00,451
And then you just build it up slowly
so they don't see where you've
:
00:55:00,451 --> 00:55:04,471
put it and they go and then their,
their reward for that or their
:
00:55:04,471 --> 00:55:06,091
reinforcer, if you like for that.
:
00:55:06,841 --> 00:55:07,291
firstly.
:
00:55:07,471 --> 00:55:09,661
Uh, just enjoy doing it.
:
00:55:09,721 --> 00:55:13,621
They just, you know, looking for
that scent they can just enjoy doing.
:
00:55:13,981 --> 00:55:18,121
But just throwing the toy afterwards for
them could, could be their reinforcer
:
00:55:18,271 --> 00:55:21,511
or you could give a piece of food
for them bringing it back to you.
:
00:55:21,631 --> 00:55:25,621
I, I, with a dog I've got now,
Monty, I, I don't give him
:
00:55:25,621 --> 00:55:27,091
any food for going finding it.
:
00:55:27,091 --> 00:55:30,361
He just loves doing it and he likes
to play more than he likes food.
:
00:55:30,631 --> 00:55:32,401
My, my previous dog, Mr.
:
00:55:32,401 --> 00:55:35,611
B, he used to get a treat for
bringing it back and I did it
:
00:55:35,611 --> 00:55:36,841
with lots of things with that.
:
00:55:36,841 --> 00:55:40,261
As you can know, once you've taught
that you can use that scent on anything.
:
00:55:40,621 --> 00:55:43,021
And I, um, a video, um, I.
:
00:55:43,106 --> 00:55:46,361
It, it's quite a few years back
now, but I put all the books that
:
00:55:46,361 --> 00:55:51,191
I had in my collection and there's
very many, um, on, on the floor.
:
00:55:51,221 --> 00:55:53,621
Some of them are quite expensive,
but I put 'em on the floor.
:
00:55:53,861 --> 00:55:58,031
But one of them, my own book, I,
I made it smell of the Catnip.
:
00:55:58,991 --> 00:56:02,381
and then I chose, I told Barney
to go and choose his favorite book
:
00:56:02,441 --> 00:56:03,881
and then he brings my book back.
:
00:56:03,941 --> 00:56:08,351
So, so there's all sorts of fun
games and, and like I say, it's about
:
00:56:08,351 --> 00:56:09,881
making it fun for the people as well.
:
00:56:09,881 --> 00:56:10,241
You know, you
:
00:56:10,365 --> 00:56:10,875
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:56:11,891 --> 00:56:15,641
Shay: silly little tricks like that
and it, and it's just great fun.
:
00:56:15,881 --> 00:56:19,031
So, uh, and if you don't wanna
buy the catnip, uh, you could
:
00:56:19,121 --> 00:56:20,231
just do it with tea bags.
:
00:56:20,231 --> 00:56:22,121
You could put some tea bags in, in, in the
:
00:56:22,290 --> 00:56:22,640
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right,
:
00:56:22,721 --> 00:56:25,331
Shay: of catnip, and it would
take on the smell of the tea bags.
:
00:56:25,859 --> 00:56:26,210
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: right,
:
00:56:26,501 --> 00:56:28,841
Shay: you don't have to buy anything
at all if you don't want to.
:
00:56:29,370 --> 00:56:29,720
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: right.
:
00:56:29,741 --> 00:56:32,446
Shay: And then, and then once the
dog's learnt that you can do it with
:
00:56:32,446 --> 00:56:35,446
a 10 pound note and they learn to
bring the 10 pound note back and, and,
:
00:56:35,776 --> 00:56:38,176
um, I'm, I've got this idea in mind.
:
00:56:38,206 --> 00:56:41,056
He's already going searching for the
10 pound note and bringing it back.
:
00:56:41,056 --> 00:56:44,386
But I'm, I'm gonna make a video of
sticking it in someone's handbag
:
00:56:44,566 --> 00:56:48,256
and then he's gonna look like he's
pickpocketing a out the handbag.
:
00:56:48,256 --> 00:56:49,636
But I've not made the video yet.
:
00:56:50,266 --> 00:56:50,446
that's
:
00:56:50,475 --> 00:56:51,015
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Brilliant.
:
00:56:51,705 --> 00:56:52,185
Thank you.
:
00:56:52,185 --> 00:56:52,964
That's brilliant.
:
00:56:53,234 --> 00:56:57,734
Um, why is it so important to give Dogs
Choice in their enrichment activities?
:
00:56:57,734 --> 00:56:58,004
Show
:
00:56:59,656 --> 00:57:01,456
Shay: The whole, um,
:
00:57:02,230 --> 00:57:02,350
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.
:
00:57:02,476 --> 00:57:05,536
Shay: you have to go back
to, to why we do enrichment.
:
00:57:05,866 --> 00:57:08,866
And the whole reason we need
enrichment is because of the
:
00:57:08,866 --> 00:57:10,696
lack of choice and opportunity.
:
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:11,540
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm
:
00:57:11,656 --> 00:57:17,056
Shay: more choice there is, the more
likely we are, um, to understand and to
:
00:57:17,056 --> 00:57:22,246
learn about what the individual dog finds
enriching, what's improving their life,
:
00:57:22,306 --> 00:57:24,166
what's, you know, bringing joy to them.
:
00:57:24,166 --> 00:57:25,696
And that's about watching your own dog.
:
00:57:25,696 --> 00:57:26,806
There's no way of.
:
00:57:28,081 --> 00:57:28,771
Totally.
:
00:57:29,071 --> 00:57:31,471
And, you know, absolutely describing that.
:
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:32,370
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm.
:
00:57:32,371 --> 00:57:36,451
Shay: and, but again, choice
brings us back to agency.
:
00:57:37,861 --> 00:57:41,881
And is often considered to
be the same thing as choice,
:
00:57:41,881 --> 00:57:45,181
but it's much, much deeper.
:
00:57:45,211 --> 00:57:50,011
And I think agency is fundamentally
the feeling of free will.
:
00:57:50,041 --> 00:57:52,501
I mean, you can argue about whether
free will exists, but that's,
:
00:57:52,591 --> 00:57:53,911
that's another level altogether.
:
00:57:54,301 --> 00:57:57,361
But I think it's hugely important
to have that feeling of free
:
00:57:57,361 --> 00:58:01,896
will for the dog so that they can
build confidence and, and really,
:
00:58:04,681 --> 00:58:08,731
a line that I read in a, in a welfare
book that always stuck in my mind is
:
00:58:08,731 --> 00:58:12,751
that agency was, um, for developing
a mastery of their environment.
:
00:58:13,330 --> 00:58:13,550
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.
:
00:58:13,591 --> 00:58:16,291
Shay: what, you know, that's,
that's where it comes to development
:
00:58:16,291 --> 00:58:17,641
and, and things like that.
:
00:58:17,641 --> 00:58:20,281
They, they should be able to learn.
:
00:58:20,281 --> 00:58:20,341
I.
:
00:58:21,196 --> 00:58:22,666
to master their environment.
:
00:58:22,666 --> 00:58:24,106
They shouldn't be scared of it.
:
00:58:24,226 --> 00:58:27,046
And they're, you know, they're
forced into this little box
:
00:58:27,046 --> 00:58:28,336
of a world that we put 'em in.
:
00:58:28,810 --> 00:58:29,230
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.
:
00:58:29,806 --> 00:58:29,986
Shay: And
:
00:58:30,045 --> 00:58:30,495
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:58:30,561 --> 00:58:33,736
Shay: I, I, I include agency as a
chapter in that puppy book that you
:
00:58:33,736 --> 00:58:39,691
showed earlier, um, because it's so
important, um, to me, and I think it,
:
00:58:39,691 --> 00:58:47,176
it should be something that we consider,
um, a lot more, um, going forward is,
:
00:58:47,384 --> 00:58:47,745
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
00:58:47,746 --> 00:58:53,446
Shay: appreciation of, of allowing
dogs to develop, um, some choices.
:
00:58:53,506 --> 00:58:55,456
You know, there's, there's
good reasons that, you know,
:
00:58:55,456 --> 00:58:56,686
we have to take care of them.
:
00:58:57,166 --> 00:59:01,276
Um, they couldn't survive on their
own, but we, we need to bring in
:
00:59:01,276 --> 00:59:03,856
that, that choice because it's,
:
00:59:06,601 --> 00:59:10,396
it, it is about freedom again
and safety and, and, and,
:
00:59:10,401 --> 00:59:11,686
and, and all the rest of it.
:
00:59:11,986 --> 00:59:12,376
Um.
:
00:59:13,066 --> 00:59:17,456
There was a, a story, um, Susan
Friedman told at a, a behaviour
:
00:59:17,476 --> 00:59:20,506
conference that I've, I've written
in a book myself at some time.
:
00:59:20,506 --> 00:59:21,496
I forget which one.
:
00:59:21,496 --> 00:59:25,726
But I remember writing about it
you know, you, you pick a puppy
:
00:59:25,726 --> 00:59:30,586
up back to puppies again, uh, and
you put 'em down the moment they
:
00:59:33,046 --> 00:59:37,216
squib or, or move or, or show any
indication that they want to get down.
:
00:59:37,396 --> 00:59:42,256
And that freedom to, to be able to tell
you, I want to get down or, you know,
:
00:59:42,256 --> 00:59:46,906
they're not comfortable or whatever
is, is what gives the confidence to,
:
00:59:47,686 --> 00:59:49,456
for, to allow people to pick them up.
:
00:59:49,816 --> 00:59:52,936
'cause you get so many problems with
people gonna pick up a dog and it's like
:
00:59:53,086 --> 00:59:54,766
biting at their hands and, and whatever.
:
00:59:54,916 --> 00:59:57,406
'cause they haven't got the ability,
they've never been allowed to
:
00:59:57,406 --> 00:59:58,996
say, no, I don't wanna do that.
:
00:59:59,326 --> 01:00:04,606
So allowing them to say no in the long
run, it, it seems, uh, counterintuitive,
:
01:00:04,606 --> 01:00:08,956
but in the long run, um, gives you a
more confident dog that you know is more
:
01:00:08,956 --> 01:00:10,936
likely to say yes to the things you want.
:
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:12,090
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Brilliant.
:
01:00:12,540 --> 01:00:13,050
Love that.
:
01:00:13,050 --> 01:00:16,290
Just moving on to our final section,
couple of questions for this.
:
01:00:16,290 --> 01:00:20,910
One is just the link between enrichment
and behaviour, and we've touched on it a
:
01:00:20,910 --> 01:00:25,470
little bit, but many behaviour problems
like excessive barking or destructive
:
01:00:25,470 --> 01:00:28,350
chewing are often linked to unmet needs.
:
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,660
How does enrichment help prevent
or manage these behaviours?
:
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:32,149
Shay.
:
01:00:33,376 --> 01:00:38,896
Shay: So I think firstly, enrichment
activities, um, begin to fulfill the
:
01:00:38,896 --> 01:00:43,006
dog's needs so they're not seeking
so much stimulation elsewhere.
:
01:00:43,036 --> 01:00:45,491
So you've got that it's.
:
01:00:49,096 --> 01:00:53,806
It's really the foundation of
behaviour change because if we are
:
01:00:53,806 --> 01:00:58,726
not meeting the dog's needs, how can
we expect them to meet our needs?
:
01:00:58,756 --> 01:01:02,176
And we come across that
all the time in behaviour.
:
01:01:02,536 --> 01:01:06,976
It's that, you know, we want, we demand
the dog to do this, that, or the other,
:
01:01:07,066 --> 01:01:10,906
and we are not even coming close to
meeting their needs or, you know,
:
01:01:10,906 --> 01:01:15,076
that's not always out of, unkindness.
:
01:01:15,076 --> 01:01:18,976
Sometimes it's just people don't
realize what the dog's needs are.
:
01:01:18,976 --> 01:01:21,616
They don't consider life
from that point of view.
:
01:01:22,245 --> 01:01:22,754
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.
:
01:01:22,786 --> 01:01:26,626
Shay: it can also, like I said, be used
as a management tool or in, instead
:
01:01:26,626 --> 01:01:32,956
of, um, an alternative behaviour, we
introduce an alternative activity.
:
01:01:32,956 --> 01:01:35,146
So the dog's got other focuses.
:
01:01:35,446 --> 01:01:35,896
Um.
:
01:01:36,946 --> 01:01:37,066
And
:
01:01:37,214 --> 01:01:37,484
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.
:
01:01:37,726 --> 01:01:41,956
Shay: the, um, like the treasure
hunt, uh, or the scent around
:
01:01:41,956 --> 01:01:46,726
the garden, rather than a dog
standing out in the garden barking.
:
01:01:46,726 --> 01:01:48,916
And, and that's one of
the things I get a lot.
:
01:01:48,916 --> 01:01:51,766
People will write to me and say
they let their dog out in the
:
01:01:51,766 --> 01:01:53,896
garden and it just bark, bark, bark.
:
01:01:53,986 --> 01:01:56,476
And partly that's just become a habit.
:
01:01:56,476 --> 01:01:58,276
They, they don't know what else to do.
:
01:01:58,276 --> 01:01:58,846
They, you.
:
01:02:00,076 --> 01:02:05,476
but it's about going out there and,
and, and doing these other activities
:
01:02:05,536 --> 01:02:08,836
so that they then connect going
out in the garden, into the garden
:
01:02:08,956 --> 01:02:10,576
with doing these other activities.
:
01:02:10,606 --> 01:02:11,716
And they've got a choice.
:
01:02:11,896 --> 01:02:14,116
Are they gonna engage in
something they enjoy doing?
:
01:02:14,386 --> 01:02:15,676
Are, are they gonna stand there?
:
01:02:15,711 --> 01:02:16,906
Uh, uh, barking?
:
01:02:17,296 --> 01:02:19,456
Um, seemingly senselessly.
:
01:02:19,636 --> 01:02:21,616
I mean, they've, they've
probably got a reason.
:
01:02:21,796 --> 01:02:23,056
We just don't know what it is.
:
01:02:23,536 --> 01:02:23,926
Um.
:
01:02:26,341 --> 01:02:31,441
And, and then and again for puppies,
you, you would bring in these activities
:
01:02:31,621 --> 01:02:35,641
is very important because you've got
things like, um, being a Labrador
:
01:02:35,641 --> 01:02:38,461
person, Labradors love to chew wood.
:
01:02:38,761 --> 01:02:42,091
So if you're gonna bring a Labrador
puppy into your house, so a very
:
01:02:42,391 --> 01:02:46,141
good idea to have wood, like natural
wood chews and, and give them that
:
01:02:46,141 --> 01:02:47,671
option of things that they can't.
:
01:02:47,701 --> 01:02:51,331
'cause they, they, every Labrador
I've ever come across at that age has
:
01:02:51,331 --> 01:02:53,431
been very attracted to chewing wood.
:
01:02:53,791 --> 01:02:55,711
And I've lost a few door frames over the
:
01:02:55,845 --> 01:02:56,085
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh
:
01:02:56,311 --> 01:02:56,521
Shay: for,
:
01:02:58,335 --> 01:02:58,815
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: right.
:
01:02:58,875 --> 01:02:59,475
Okay.
:
01:02:59,895 --> 01:03:00,375
Brilliant.
:
01:03:00,555 --> 01:03:06,255
So for dogs who may struggle with impulse
control, how can structured enrichment
:
01:03:06,255 --> 01:03:08,925
help them develop better coping skills?
:
01:03:11,371 --> 01:03:16,441
Shay: um, well if you're using
enrichment, we're meeting a dog's
:
01:03:16,441 --> 01:03:20,641
needs and impulsivity should.
:
01:03:21,406 --> 01:03:23,146
Um, naturally decline.
:
01:03:23,146 --> 01:03:23,536
I think,
:
01:03:24,060 --> 01:03:24,280
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm
:
01:03:24,616 --> 01:03:25,096
Shay: it depends.
:
01:03:25,126 --> 01:03:28,516
It depends on, on, on, on the
:
01:03:28,660 --> 01:03:28,780
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.
:
01:03:29,776 --> 01:03:31,156
Shay: and the individual dog.
:
01:03:31,276 --> 01:03:37,696
But, um, like a dog that gets lots of
social interaction and mental stimulation,
:
01:03:37,696 --> 01:03:43,726
we'll have a less intense need to act
impulsively because they need to be met.
:
01:03:43,726 --> 01:03:49,756
So you have that and it's about playing
simple games, I think with, um, with
:
01:03:49,756 --> 01:03:56,626
a toy, with, um, um, then, so a bit
like the game where you teach dogs to
:
01:03:56,626 --> 01:04:03,466
leave it, um, things like that, that
people now are sort of, they're a bit
:
01:04:03,466 --> 01:04:08,176
worried to teach because it's like, oh
no, it's sort of unkind for the dog,
:
01:04:08,176 --> 01:04:11,896
making them leave it or, you know, not
allowing them to have something or,
:
01:04:14,356 --> 01:04:19,066
the ideas are well-founded, but they go
a bit too extreme 'cause humans do that.
:
01:04:19,546 --> 01:04:19,906
Um.
:
01:04:20,671 --> 01:04:28,261
So if we take the, the, the game of
what I used to use as, um, teaching
:
01:04:28,261 --> 01:04:31,621
dogs to leave, we'd just be, to
have two toys, exactly the same.
:
01:04:31,951 --> 01:04:35,731
And, and you probably know it, you
play with one like tug type toy
:
01:04:35,881 --> 01:04:37,201
and the dog's going crazy for it.
:
01:04:37,351 --> 01:04:39,151
And you can literally just stop.
:
01:04:39,541 --> 01:04:42,272
You don't have, you don't need
any instructor to, and, and
:
01:04:42,781 --> 01:04:46,561
nine times outta 10, the dose
will go, oh, what stopped for?
:
01:04:46,771 --> 01:04:49,351
And you can bring the other one
alive that's behind your back.
:
01:04:49,381 --> 01:04:51,931
It's about making it come
alive and play with that one.
:
01:04:52,171 --> 01:04:56,221
And then what, you know, it doesn't take
on long to learn that, that when you stop,
:
01:04:56,371 --> 01:04:59,881
oh, they're waiting for you to produce
something else and you can start having
:
01:04:59,941 --> 01:05:05,491
a, having a a, a, a, leave it queue in
there as, as you stop playing or a, or a
:
01:05:05,491 --> 01:05:07,351
weight or a whatever you want to call it.
:
01:05:07,741 --> 01:05:11,191
And I think little games like
that, that, again, you're not
:
01:05:11,191 --> 01:05:12,421
putting any pressure on the dog.
:
01:05:12,421 --> 01:05:14,881
You're not enforcing this in any way.
:
01:05:14,881 --> 01:05:15,871
You are just stopping.
:
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:16,779
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.
:
01:05:16,876 --> 01:05:18,286
Shay: waiting for the dog to react,
:
01:05:18,855 --> 01:05:19,215
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
01:05:19,216 --> 01:05:20,566
Shay: then making it joyful again.
:
01:05:20,866 --> 01:05:21,826
Little things like that.
:
01:05:21,856 --> 01:05:27,556
Just getting the dog to, to wait and, and
not be so impulsive and, and they, you
:
01:05:27,556 --> 01:05:31,816
know, they're, they're learning really
that, oh, just that stop and thinking
:
01:05:32,746 --> 01:05:37,456
gonna create something else, or, and it
just introduces that ability for them
:
01:05:37,726 --> 01:05:40,336
rather than it all being so difficult.
:
01:05:40,636 --> 01:05:43,336
It doesn't, it doesn't
have to be that difficult.
:
01:05:43,336 --> 01:05:46,006
It's not about overpowering
the dog or, you
:
01:05:46,050 --> 01:05:46,270
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.
:
01:05:46,636 --> 01:05:48,946
Shay: or being stronger
than a dog or demanding.
:
01:05:48,946 --> 01:05:50,356
They, they do what we want.
:
01:05:50,716 --> 01:05:56,236
It's, it can be a, that, that, that
weight or leave, it can start as a
:
01:05:56,236 --> 01:05:58,006
simple enrichment game like that.
:
01:05:58,509 --> 01:05:58,750
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Brilliant.
:
01:05:59,630 --> 01:05:59,870
Brilliant.
:
01:06:00,015 --> 01:06:00,945
Um, thank you.
:
01:06:01,005 --> 01:06:04,575
Apologies to yourself and
the listeners from my dogs.
:
01:06:04,575 --> 01:06:06,945
Just going crazy just now.
:
01:06:07,785 --> 01:06:11,384
They all just start having a funny couple
of minutes, so that was most embarrassing.
:
01:06:11,595 --> 01:06:14,445
Hopefully we might be able to get the
team to edit that out, but if not,
:
01:06:14,445 --> 01:06:16,245
that's, it's just very relatable.
:
01:06:16,245 --> 01:06:19,755
It's the yappy hour and we've got
dogs yapping in the background.
:
01:06:20,265 --> 01:06:20,625
Wow.
:
01:06:20,625 --> 01:06:22,904
This episode has been absolutely amazing.
:
01:06:22,904 --> 01:06:26,595
We're gonna start wrapping up with
some final thoughts and questions.
:
01:06:26,595 --> 01:06:29,865
Literally, it's been jam packed
with nuggets of information.
:
01:06:30,195 --> 01:06:36,015
Um, so Shay, if you could give one, if you
could give dog Guardians one key message
:
01:06:36,255 --> 01:06:38,415
about enrichment, what would it be?
:
01:06:40,546 --> 01:06:42,976
Shay: Again, that's probably
something that changes over the years,
:
01:06:43,215 --> 01:06:43,485
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
01:06:43,636 --> 01:06:48,766
Shay: at, at, at the moment, I
would say that enrichment isn't an
:
01:06:48,766 --> 01:06:50,866
optional extra, the way people see it.
:
01:06:50,866 --> 01:06:54,916
As, you know, if we want dogs to
have a good mental wellbeing, we must
:
01:06:54,916 --> 01:06:59,266
give them an enriched life and, you
know, a, a life worth living, if you
:
01:06:59,266 --> 01:07:04,756
like, and something to live for and
enjoyment and joy in, in, in every day.
:
01:07:05,176 --> 01:07:05,566
Um.
:
01:07:06,826 --> 01:07:10,186
The thing that makes the biggest
difference to any dog's life
:
01:07:10,186 --> 01:07:11,416
isn't something you can buy.
:
01:07:11,416 --> 01:07:14,806
It's you, you know, it, it's,
it's how you interact with them.
:
01:07:14,806 --> 01:07:16,456
It's be in their place of safety.
:
01:07:16,456 --> 01:07:19,786
It's how you incorporate
them into your routines.
:
01:07:19,786 --> 01:07:22,546
Like, like when you're making a coffee,
you go and do something with the
:
01:07:22,546 --> 01:07:24,376
dog or when adverts come on the tea.
:
01:07:25,516 --> 01:07:27,376
it, it's, it's stuff like that.
:
01:07:27,406 --> 01:07:32,476
It, it's you who brings that joy and it,
it just reminds me of something I only
:
01:07:32,536 --> 01:07:34,666
wrote on the internet I think yesterday.
:
01:07:34,906 --> 01:07:38,986
Um, 'cause a picture of,
of my old Labrador, Mr.
:
01:07:38,986 --> 01:07:43,306
B popped up from three years ago and
we was, that when that picture was
:
01:07:43,306 --> 01:07:45,046
taken was on our way to the vets.
:
01:07:45,436 --> 01:07:49,576
And, and I'd stopped on a, on a field
for him to have a toilet and run
:
01:07:49,576 --> 01:07:51,076
around before we went into the vets.
:
01:07:51,256 --> 01:07:54,466
And we didn't know how seriously I,
Lilly was and he had three weeks to live.
:
01:07:54,826 --> 01:07:55,036
Um,
:
01:07:55,065 --> 01:07:55,645
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.
:
01:07:56,305 --> 01:07:56,845
Oh God.
:
01:07:57,316 --> 01:08:00,676
Shay: but it's about in, you
know, none of us know, you know,
:
01:08:00,676 --> 01:08:01,666
we don't know for our dogs.
:
01:08:01,666 --> 01:08:02,896
We dunno our for ourselves.
:
01:08:02,896 --> 01:08:04,006
So it's about finding.
:
01:08:04,636 --> 01:08:05,656
Some joy.
:
01:08:05,686 --> 01:08:09,526
You know, we can't all walk around,
uh, being joyful every minute of the
:
01:08:09,526 --> 01:08:14,026
day, but find some joy every day in,
in what you're doing with your dog
:
01:08:14,026 --> 01:08:15,521
and bring some joy to their life.
:
01:08:16,635 --> 01:08:16,915
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Brilliant.
:
01:08:17,335 --> 01:08:18,075
Um, thank you.
:
01:08:18,295 --> 01:08:22,439
And for someone who's new to
enrichment, what would be the simplest
:
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:24,450
first step that they can take today?
:
01:08:24,450 --> 01:08:24,510
I.
:
01:08:25,966 --> 01:08:29,866
Shay: I think when you're starting
off a good place to start is, is food
:
01:08:29,895 --> 01:08:33,946
and just thinking about how you feed
them and come up with more interesting
:
01:08:33,946 --> 01:08:38,986
ways, like, like we've spoken about,
um, without making life difficult, it's
:
01:08:38,986 --> 01:08:43,935
not about making life difficult, you
know, it's about making it interesting.
:
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:44,770
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
01:08:44,776 --> 01:08:49,696
Shay: just, there's so many ways that you
can feed dogs in more interesting ways,
:
01:08:49,725 --> 01:08:53,536
and I know some people don't like it and
they, and they think it's, they sort of
:
01:08:53,536 --> 01:08:57,556
see it from a different point of view and
think, oh, it's cruel not to let 'em eat
:
01:08:57,765 --> 01:09:03,946
all their dinner in a bowl and, you know,
but no dog evolved to, to have their food.
:
01:09:04,306 --> 01:09:07,606
No animal evolved to have their
food placed in front of them.
:
01:09:07,890 --> 01:09:08,309
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.
:
01:09:08,626 --> 01:09:11,176
Shay: that and just make it
a little bit more engaging.
:
01:09:11,390 --> 01:09:11,680
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
01:09:11,746 --> 01:09:12,616
Shay: have to be difficult.
:
01:09:13,350 --> 01:09:13,670
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Brilliant.
:
01:09:14,170 --> 01:09:16,029
Uh, Shay, thank you so much.
:
01:09:16,399 --> 01:09:21,734
Where can listeners find out more
about your work book resources, please.
:
01:09:21,910 --> 01:09:22,029
I.
:
01:09:22,126 --> 01:09:26,356
Shay: Um, well I have a
website, Shay kelly.com.
:
01:09:26,939 --> 01:09:27,540
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Love it.
:
01:09:28,456 --> 01:09:31,456
Shay: it's a blog, but I don't really
do much writing on there anymore.
:
01:09:31,456 --> 01:09:34,306
But I keep it 'cause it's got a
lot of interesting blogs on it that
:
01:09:34,306 --> 01:09:37,246
I've written over the years and
all my books are listed on there.
:
01:09:37,770 --> 01:09:37,950
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.
:
01:09:38,265 --> 01:09:43,666
Shay: I've got a Facebook page called
Shake Elliot, MSC, understanding Dogs.
:
01:09:44,386 --> 01:09:49,126
And that's just things I
think of to write about.
:
01:09:49,426 --> 01:09:54,225
It's not all about training, just it's
thoughts and, and, and, and musings
:
01:09:54,225 --> 01:09:56,626
really about the dog world and dogs.
:
01:09:56,626 --> 01:09:59,866
And, and I've got the Facebook
group called Canine Enrichment.
:
01:10:00,136 --> 01:10:00,466
Um.
:
01:10:01,305 --> 01:10:01,795
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Perfect.
:
01:10:01,861 --> 01:10:05,281
Shay: my name on the, on the banner at
the top because there's so many groups
:
01:10:05,281 --> 01:10:07,141
now with, uh, are using that name.
:
01:10:07,531 --> 01:10:12,331
Um, so if you want my one, um,
uh, look for my name at the top.
:
01:10:12,915 --> 01:10:13,395
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
Brilliant.
:
01:10:13,905 --> 01:10:16,695
Shay Kelly, the man, the myth, the legend.
:
01:10:17,025 --> 01:10:22,335
Thank you so much for joining me on
The Yappy Hour powered by Yappy today.
:
01:10:22,335 --> 01:10:25,215
I've absolutely loved this
conversation with you.
:
01:10:25,215 --> 01:10:29,385
Literally, like I said, it's been jam
packed for of so much useful information.
:
01:10:29,715 --> 01:10:31,995
Um, would love to get you
back on in the future.
:
01:10:32,265 --> 01:10:34,875
But thank you so much for
joining me today, Shay.
:
01:10:35,146 --> 01:10:36,091
Shay: Thank you very much.
:
01:10:36,096 --> 01:10:37,531
It's been, uh, it's been good fun.
:
01:10:37,531 --> 01:10:38,521
I've quite enjoyed it.
:
01:10:38,581 --> 01:10:40,861
Uh, I get a bit passionate
about my subject, but
:
01:10:41,684 --> 01:10:43,335
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:
I love that your passion oozes
:
01:10:43,335 --> 01:10:44,235
out of you, and I love that.
:
01:10:44,235 --> 01:10:44,895
Thank you so much.
:
01:10:46,621 --> 01:10:47,011
Shay: thank you.
:
01:10:49,330 --> 01:10:49,450
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.
:
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What an eye-opening
conversation with Shay Kelly.
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Here are some key takeaways
from today's episode.
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Number one, enrichment is
essential, not optional.
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It helps meet a dog's natural
needs, preventing frustration
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and behavioural issues.
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Number two, it's more than just toys.
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Shay mentioned his five different
types of enrichment, and they are.
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Number one, safety, two food foraging.
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Three non-food activities,
four natural behaviours, and
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five companionship and bonding.
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But they don't necessarily have to
come in that order, and they all
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play a role in the dog's wellbeing.
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Number three, tailor enrichment to
your dog's needs different breeds,
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ages and personalities benefit
from different types of activities.
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So always work with the
dog that's in front of you.
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Number four, it doesn't
have to be expensive.
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You can use household items and DIY
games to engage your dog's mind and body.
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Shay, thank you so much for sharing your
expertise and your passion with us today.
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And to all our listeners, if you want
to learn more, check out Shay's books
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and resources on canine enrichment.
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I also just wanted to apologize if
you could hear my dogs having a funny
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five minutes earlier, it wouldn't be
called the yappy hour without having
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dogs yapping in the background.
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If you enjoyed this episode,
please consider leaving a review,
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sharing it with a fellow dog.
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Parent and subscribe so you never
miss an episode of the Yappy Hour.
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Thanks for listening, and
I'll see you next time.