Enrichment is essential, not optional — and in this episode of The Yappy Hour we dive into how to keep your dog truly happy, calm, and fulfilled.

Host Nathan Dunleavy chats with canine enrichment expert and author Shay Kelly, who shares why enrichment matters, how it prevents behaviour problems, and simple enrichment ideas you can do at home today.

Whether you have a playful puppy, a senior dog, or a nervous rescue, this episode is packed with practical, budget-friendly advice to help you strengthen your bond and give your dog a life worth living.

🐾 What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

00:00 – Welcome & introduction to Shay Kelly

04:30 – What enrichment really means (beyond puzzle toys)

12:10 – The 5 types of enrichment every dog needs

19:40 – Why safety is the foundation of enrichment

28:15 – Enrichment for puppies vs. senior dogs

38:00 – How enrichment helps nervous or anxious dogs

46:00 – Budget-friendly enrichment ideas you can try today

55:00 – How enrichment prevents behaviour problems

1:04:00 – Final thoughts: enrichment is essential, not optional

👉 Don’t forget to subscribe to The Yappy Hour for more expert conversations on dog training, behaviour, and wellbeing.

Welcome to The Yappy Hour, powered by

Yappily, the podcast for dog lovers

2

who want to better understand and

connect with their four legged friends.

3

I'm your host Nathan Dunleavy,

and today we're diving into

4

one of the most important and.

5

Often overlooked aspects

of dog care enrichment.

6

My guest is Mr.

7

Shay Kelly, a leading expert in canine

enrichment behaviour and training.

8

Shay is the author of several books on dog

behaviour and is passionate about helping

9

pet parents create happier and fulfilled

lives for their dogs through simple.

10

Practical enrichment techniques.

11

In this episode, we explore why enrichment

is essential, how it can pr, prevent, and

12

solve behavioural issues and easy ways to

introduce more enrichment into your dog's

13

daily routine without spending a fortune.

14

Whether you have a high energy pup,

a senior dog, or a nervous rescue,

15

this episode is full of inspiration

and actionable and actionable advice.

16

So grab a cup of tea, settle

in, and let's get started.

17

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Come back to the Yappy

18

Hour, powered by Yappily.

19

I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy,

and I'm so excited to bring

20

you another episode today.

21

Even more excited that we have the legend.

22

That is, is Mr.

23

Shay Kelly joining us on the episode.

24

Um, welcome Shay.

25

Um, so we're gonna be talking all

about enrichment and why it's so

26

important for your dog, and it's

gonna be a great jam packed episode.

27

So Shay, welcome to the Yappy Hour.

28

As I've said, I'm so excited

to have you with us today.

29

How are you doing?

30

Shay: I am very well, thank you.

31

Thanks for having me on here.

32

Always nice to talk about, uh,

anything dog related, really.

33

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Absolutely.

34

No, you're most welcome.

35

I'm so she.

36

For those that might not be familiar

with your work, could you share a little

37

bit about your background and how you've

became so impassionate about enrichment?

38

Shay: Oh, it's, uh, a long story,

which I'll try and make a bit

39

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's okay.

40

You, you, you go for it.

41

Shay: As, uh, going right back

to childhood, I, I would say I

42

didn't really gel with, uh, people

so much as I jelled with animals.

43

And so it was always that natural

progression from there really.

44

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, lovely.

45

Shay: as an adult, uh,

uh, nothing changed.

46

I was still, I still felt more

connection to an animal where, you

47

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

48

Shay: know, there there's no social

pressures and, and all that sort

49

of thing that you get with, uh,

with human social activities.

50

And, you know, I'm not

51

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

absolutely.

52

Shay: and all that.

53

I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm,

I'm chatty online, but I'm not

54

really, uh, in the real world.

55

I sort of keep myself to myself.

56

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, I feel privileged that you've

57

come onto onto the hour with me then.

58

Shay: Yeah.

59

So, uh, uh, in, into adulthood I sort

of got into obedience and, and sort

60

of liked training, um, like that.

61

And then I got into trick

training as time went by.

62

Um, I worked in rescue kennels

and I ran training classes.

63

And then I went to university and,

um, did three degrees 'cause I got a

64

bit addicted to it on, uh, touring dog

training and one on animal behaviour.

65

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

66

Shay: for dog aid assistance dogs, and

I do the occasional guest lecture, uh,

67

sometimes for the uni that I went to.

68

And, uh, I've done a few

other talks for people.

69

I've done a, done one

for Isha Stewart, and,

70

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

71

Shay: written my books as well, which

72

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes.

73

Shay: a sort of a long, a

long term, um, dream really.

74

But I'd never expected it to happen.

75

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh wow.

76

Well, we're gonna be chatting

about your books as well.

77

I've got one here with me.

78

So we are gonna be coming onto

your books, so that's fantastic.

79

Three degrees, I dunno how you

manage that, but fair play to you.

80

Shay: Well, when, when you consider I left

school without a single qualification,

81

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

82

Shay: it was quite a

surprise for me as well.

83

But when you get hooked on something

that you're really passionate for, you

84

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

85

Shay: I, it, it wasn't, uh, it was

difficult, but it wasn't, um, it

86

was, it was something I wanted to do.

87

I was sort of addicted to it.

88

I, I, I spent every day thinking about it.

89

It over, it, it overtook my life, really.

90

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

91

Shay: I sort of really lived it.

92

I was always working on an

assignment of, of some kind

93

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

94

Shay: So I did the first two degrees and

then I, I wasn't gonna do the masters.

95

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

96

Shay: uh, but, but after, after about

two months of doing nothing, I was

97

like, I, I had to book again, so I

had to go back the following year.

98

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

99

What an inspiration.

100

I love that fair play to you.

101

Like you say, you got addicted to it

and you're clearly passionate about

102

it, so that's absolutely brilliant.

103

Um, so you've written several books.

104

We, um, we touched on your books just now

all about dog behaviour and enrichment.

105

What inspired you to

focus on these topics?

106

Shay: I think, I think really the, the

enrichment came along almost accidentally.

107

Um, I, I wasn't massively more into

enrichment than anything else, but I,

108

I, I was more into dog tricks and, and

I had a, I did, I did a, a Facebook

109

group where people won different awards.

110

Um, dog trick geeks.

111

It was called many, many years ago.

112

Um, but it became about it.

113

It was nice, but part of it,

people become obsessed in just, I.

114

What they're trying to achieve and,

and not the journey to get there.

115

I just wanted something that wasn't about

being the best and, and you know, just

116

enjoying your dog, whatever level they

117

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

118

Shay: or whatever level you were on.

119

I didn't want it ev Everything

in the in in the dog world seemed

120

to be a competition and that's

121

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

122

Shay: a little bit

uncomfortable with, I would say.

123

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

124

Shay: even though I enjoyed that stuff,

I was a little bit uncomfortable with it.

125

It,

126

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

127

Shay: about the relationship

so much as it was about, oh, I

128

wanna be the best at something.

129

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

130

Shay: looking around at enrichment

then, and there was a lot around

131

about, um, there was things called

like, do more with your dog and

132

things like that, but there was no.

133

At that time, there was no umbrella

term of canine in Richmond.

134

It just

135

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.

136

Shay: seem to exist.

137

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

138

Shay: I started the first, uh, enrichment

group because I couldn't find anything

139

online at all when I was looking.

140

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

141

Shay: I think I got the idea, and it's

a long time ago now, but I think I

142

got the idea from the, um, zoo groups.

143

'cause there was some for zookeepers,

144

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

145

Right.

146

Shay: it just puzzled me that there

wasn't one for dogs when we, we

147

were all keeping them in our homes.

148

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

149

Shay: I started my own.

150

And, and that really is, is one of, it was

the right, wasn't because I was brilliant,

151

it because it was just the right thing

at the right time and it really took off.

152

You know, I had thousands and

thousands of members in no time.

153

And then other, other groups appear with

similar names and it just grew from there.

154

And now it's everywhere.

155

You don't, don't see a

behaviour conference without it

156

mentioned or a workshop horror.

157

So I, I like to think I had a little

part to play in that and it makes

158

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely.

159

Yeah.

160

Fair play.

161

Definitely.

162

Um, one of your books is all about

enrichment as well, isn't it?

163

Shay: Absolutely.

164

Yeah.

165

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

166

Shay: and, and

167

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

168

Shay: the first book to be

169

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

that was the first one.

170

Shay: now, but it's the first book to

be written solely for dog enrichment.

171

It's,

172

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

173

Shay: does seem odd.

174

now there's loads and, and loads, which is

175

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

you can always, you'll always be

176

one of the, you are always the first

though, so that's a good accolade.

177

Shay: Yeah.

178

It's

179

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's, that's brilliant.

180

I've got one of your books as well.

181

I've got puppy nurture, but I think

this one's been released again,

182

isn't it Sha if I got that wrong,

183

Shay: No, you got that wrong.

184

KKKK nine.

185

Enrichment is the only

one with a second edition.

186

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Ah, there we go.

187

Right?

188

Yep.

189

Okay, so is that done now?

190

I did see something

that you were doing it.

191

Yeah,

192

Shay: Yeah, that one's done.

193

And I'm working on a book which is taking

much longer than the others, which is

194

just about, um, recall, um, because of

the problems people have with recall.

195

But it's the first time I've

written a whole book on just one

196

behaviour, if you know what I mean.

197

So

198

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

199

Shay: quite a, it's

quite challenging really.

200

'cause you don't wanna fill it

with waffle to make it a book.

201

All it has to be meaningful.

202

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

203

Shay: if, if, if you look at my

training book, you know, the, the,

204

the recall exercise takes up, I

don't know, two or three pages, uh,

205

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.

206

Shay: So you're trying to write

a whole book on that one subject.

207

So it has a lot of, it's in

a holistic approach really.

208

It has a lot of, um.

209

Things that will benefit the

relationship and benefit the

210

recall and, and stuff like that.

211

And building up slowly.

212

And I'm, I'm only about

halfway through, so,

213

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

214

Shay: it's very slow going.

215

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I'm, I'm, I'm told that, um, they

216

do sometimes take a while as a bit

of labor of love writing a book.

217

Shay: Abso, you have to, you

have to see it that way really.

218

I, I, I sort of, for me,

it's sort of like a therapy.

219

It's just some

220

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's nice.

221

Shay: being able to write things down.

222

And it's not all the hustle and

bustle of Facebook or social media,

223

you know, it's just your little

space to, to write whatever you want

224

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

You could

225

Shay: don't get much argument about it.

226

You know,

227

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No,

228

Shay: the, the, the people who are

reading it are, are say at home, not, not

229

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

230

Not behind a, yeah.

231

Shay: every little word.

232

Yeah.

233

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

234

Not behind a keyboard.

235

So it's almost a bit of

an escapism I gather.

236

Shay: there's, there's,

there's no money in it really.

237

It's not a business.

238

It has to be a passion.

239

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

240

Shay: there's, there's just

so many books out there now.

241

Everybody has, you know, you can,

you don't even need a publisher.

242

You can self-publish.

243

It's very easy.

244

everyone's writing them.

245

Some are not very good to start with.

246

And then now you've got that, um,

AI stuff coming in, which Amazon are

247

willing to, to sell just about anything,

248

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.

249

Shay: it.

250

Um, even a computer,

they're not very good.

251

The technology's not there yet to

make the books very good there, but

252

if they pay for the advertising, which

they do, they get their book up there

253

in all the searches, and that's what

people are buying, unfortunately.

254

So it's a very difficult marketplace.

255

So you, you know, you have to just

do it for yourself and enjoy your

256

work being out there for people if

they, if they choose to read it.

257

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Exactly.

258

So your book that you are in

the middle of then, is it just

259

gonna be ready when it's ready?

260

You just take your time with it.

261

Shay: I, I, people keep asking

me and I keep, I keep, I

262

move the goalpost each time,

263

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's fine.

264

Shay: the, the, I was hoping this

summer, but it's, uh, there's, there's

265

still quite a lot to do and I'm

getting a puppy in four weeks time,

266

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I've

seen, I've seen you're getting a puppy.

267

Yeah.

268

So puppy nurture.

269

Then you, you, you've, you

know, you've got, you know what

270

you do with your new puppy,

271

Shay: Yeah.

272

I'll, I'll reread the book

273

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

you'll reread the bit.

274

So what number was this?

275

Was this number two or number three?

276

Because you've got a few out

277

Shay: but Canine Enrichment had a second

edition, so it depends how you, how you

278

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

how you do it.

279

Shay: Um, I, I have kept

the original on sale.

280

I took it off sale for a while, but

then I put it back on very cheap

281

'cause people seem to want it so.

282

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

fair enough.

283

Yeah.

284

Yeah.

285

Well I have, I'll definitely

have a lookout for that one.

286

Um, I dunno what made me brought that.

287

I think I saw it in, in one of your

groups I was in and I went and got it.

288

But I do know you had some others,

so I will be looking out for those

289

Shay: Yeah,

290

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yes, you are new.

291

Shay: that puppy nurture is the

one I'm most proud of really.

292

It's not the

293

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh.

294

Shay: I'd ever read, but I, I was

really, really pleased with that

295

book, more so than, than any of

the other books that I've written.

296

Um,

297

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: okay.

298

Shay: you know, I, I've, there is

so many puppy books out there, just

299

everyone seems to write a puppy book.

300

And I suppose that's when people are

buying and looking around is when they

301

get a puppy, they're looking for what to

get and what they need and, and all that.

302

But they're not very good.

303

Uh,

304

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

305

Shay: had, I just had to write

one that didn't have something

306

in it that didn't make me cringe.

307

'cause I've not

308

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That,

309

Shay: yet.

310

So

311

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

fair enough.

312

Shay: I was pleased to have that one.

313

You know, even some of the really,

I'm not gonna mention 'em for obvious

314

reasons, but some of the really famous

ones that, that, you know, the highest

315

sellers in the country have got pages in

there where you've just shake your head,

316

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.

317

Shay: te teaching people about separation

anxiety by locking a dog in a room.

318

And it's just

319

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh God.

320

Shay: These

321

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's.

322

Shay: be the good ones.

323

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

324

That's nuts.

325

Alright, well I'm glad you've

brought out a good one.

326

We definitely recommending that more.

327

Um, yeah, so you mentioned your new

puppy, so four weeks to, to moose

328

arriving you on count, you on countdown.

329

Shay: Yeah.

330

Get getting updates pup updates virtually

every day from, from the breeders.

331

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

332

Shay: Very

333

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: So

334

Shay: Uh.

335

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: what

mind, um, if you don't mind me asking,

336

what made you go for a new puppy?

337

Just felt you, you were missing

having a puppy around or?

338

Shay: as, as we're talking about

enrichment, um, the, probably the

339

biggest reason is that, you know,

I, I like to have more than one dog.

340

And I, I, my dogs, um, a few years

ago, both in the same year, both

341

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.

342

Shay: different cancers.

343

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.

344

Shay: what, um, Mr.

345

B, my Labrador died young.

346

He was only nine years old, so that was

347

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

He's in this book.

348

He's in this book, isn't he?

349

Mr.

350

BI saw that Barney.

351

Shay: I think, yeah, that's

the one I dedicated to him.

352

Um, and we had Daisy as well.

353

It was a bit older.

354

She was 14, but she had, uh, cancer

as well the same year later that

355

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

356

Shay: six months later.

357

So.

358

Then I, I, I, I got my current

dog, uh, Monty, and I've just

359

been waiting really for the right

time to bring in another one.

360

And I just think the, the greatest

form of enrichment, if you can

361

do it, it's not for everyone.

362

I'm not saying that at all.

363

If you can do it, it's for them

to have another canine companion.

364

I, I think

365

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

366

Shay: it's

367

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

how old's now?

368

Shay: he's two and a half.

369

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, so still a good agent

370

to have a little playmate.

371

Shay: yeah.

372

He, he, he will probably revert to

puppy hood a little bit, not that

373

he's ever completely got out of it.

374

Um,

375

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

376

Shay: it'll, it'll be fun.

377

Let's say,

378

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, I can't wait for all the updates.

379

I've already seen some cute little

pictures of, of moose, but I can't

380

wait until you, you bring him home?

381

Shay: oh, he is gorgeous

382

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, he does.

383

Is he the only one that's that

color out of the litter as well?

384

Shay: there.

385

There's two out of eight

386

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh wow.

387

Shay: other one's a girl.

388

So I,

389

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

390

Shay: de, I definitely know

which one's mine, so I'm sorted.

391

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

392

Wow.

393

Can't wait for moose and all the moose

related posts to, to come out from you.

394

So I look forward to that.

395

So we're gonna be moving on to

our next section, which is all

396

about what is enrichment and

what and why does it matter.

397

Um, people often think of enrichment

as just given their dog a puzzle

398

toy, but it's so much more than that.

399

Shay, how do you define enrichment please?

400

Shay: Yeah, and, and surprisingly

I'm not really into the puzzle toys

401

everyone expects that will be, but,

uh, I, I, I don't find dogs are that

402

good at solving complex puzzles.

403

I just,

404

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Mm mm Why make it hard?

405

Shay: ex Well exactly, that's the

other thing where people go wrong.

406

I think with enrichment they think it's

about making it hard rather than engaging.

407

So it's a, I think that's one of

the big mistakes that you see.

408

But for me, and I was only thinking about

this again recently with you to coming

409

back on here 'cause I think everyone

who asks me that question probably gets

410

a slightly different answer because

you change as it evolves and you know,

411

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

412

Shay: and, and all the rest of it.

413

So, and so now I like to say that

enrichment is giving back and that,

414

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Love that.

415

Shay: the reason it came in in zoos

and was needed back in, I dunno,

416

that the early eighties it started

to really get big ens zoos is

417

because it became o obvious that the

animals weren't faring very well.

418

Um, in such confinement.

419

'cause basically they're not able to

do the behaviours they would be doing.

420

They're not able to even do replacement

behaviours 'cause their, their

421

confinement is so small compared

422

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

423

Shay: know, living a world life.

424

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

425

Shay: so it's, it's really about, um,

giving back some of the opportunities

426

that are lost due to captivity.

427

And people don't often think of

dogs as being in captivity or

428

being, uh, captive animals, but

429

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

430

Shay: are, they're, they're confined to

our little lives in our little houses.

431

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

They are.

432

Shay: and, and so we have to give

opportunity for behaviour, you

433

know, that's gonna benefit them.

434

So that's what I think is about now is,

is just giving those opportunities back.

435

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

436

Shay: And,

437

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

love that.

438

Shay: you know, the, the, the thing

is that the animal was born to.

439

with their environment.

440

That's why they've got

such an advanced brain.

441

And, you know,

442

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

443

Shay: have got an advanced brain and

to make choices and to seek food and

444

to explore and to even to avoid danger.

445

But in, in our lives, all those things

are pretty much taken away from 'em.

446

They, you know, even avoiding

danger, which seems, say it like

447

that, seems daft, doesn't it?

448

But they

449

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

450

Shay: have that choice.

451

We've got 'em on a leash.

452

Uh, they, they've got, they've

got no choice where they live,

453

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's it.

454

Shay: so it is trying to some of

those, um, things back really, and,

455

and stimulate their mind and, and, and,

and help with their development and

456

just give them an active, um, mind.

457

You've

458

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

459

Shay: at the, the, the

problems with children.

460

Um, it's known about a bit

more now, but from years

461

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

462

Shay: to when I was young.

463

Really?

464

If, if you didn't, if they

didn't get the opportunities.

465

That people get now really with

interaction and development and

466

going to, uh, nursery schools.

467

Like they, I've got a little

granddaughter in nursery school now,

468

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Ah,

469

Shay: the things they do,

it's just, it's a joy.

470

They send photos over of all their

activities and I, and, but you just think

471

of that in a development term, how many

children they're interacting with and

472

how many things they're going to see.

473

And rather than maybe being stuck

at home until the age of four, if

474

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

475

Shay: stimulation in that home.

476

And,

477

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

478

Shay: and, and so, you know, it's not as

serious with a dog obviously, but it's the

479

same sort of principle and, you know, the

480

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

481

Shay: needs stimulation if

it's gonna develop well.

482

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It does.

483

Brilliant.

484

I love that.

485

And what I kind of get from that

is giving back, but it's almost

486

giving back their freedom, isn't it?

487

To a degree.

488

Shay: Yeah, absolutely.

489

And one, one of the

490

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

491

Shay: that I've sort of got

interested in a bit more, um, recently

492

is, um, is the idea of agency.

493

And, and when you look at that, it's

more than just being about choice.

494

It's agency is there for animals to

develop to, to, to build confidence,

495

to explore and, and feel, you know,

496

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

497

Shay: they build confidence by being

able to make choices because they can

498

investigate something, they can have

a little look or they can back off,

499

run away over way when they're free.

500

When in captivity you haven't got those

choices, so they don't feel as secure.

501

Um, most likely.

502

So we've, you know, we've got a job

to do in looking after 'em, I think

503

more than people think we have.

504

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely.

505

We are seeing that word agency branded

around a lot more now, aren't we?

506

Shay: Yeah, I, I, I think the thing took,

for me anyway, um, I wrote a piece last

507

year for operas the, uh, Skinner magazine

508

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right?

509

Shay: um, choice and stuff like that.

510

And that's what really

got me thinking about it.

511

And really, when you look at it,

it's, it's a big chunk of it is

512

about their ability to develop them

513

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

514

Shay: not, it's not just choice.

515

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

516

Brilliant.

517

Um, what happens Shay, when

a dog isn't getting enough

518

enrichment in their daily lives?

519

Shay: It's an interesting, um, topic.

520

I think that because, um, we, we think

of, um, behaviour problems all the

521

time because they're the things that

are causing us humans, uh, a problem.

522

But I often think of the ones that

go the other way, and there must be

523

loads of dogs like this that just

shut down and, and you know, they just

524

get used to doing nothing all day.

525

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm,

526

Shay: always gonna be obvious

in behaviour problems.

527

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

528

Shay: your dog will just be, I, I

would use the word depressed and,

529

you know, people might not like

that word for, for an animal, but

530

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

No, I know what you're saying.

531

Shay: I would describe it.

532

If they've got no joy in life and, you

know, nothing seems to matter to them, I

533

would describe that as, as, as depression.

534

So you've got, I, especially

when they're young, you've got

535

a lack of brain development.

536

Um, not just the ethics of it.

537

It's, you know, if you've got a dog that's

not developing properly or not stimulated

538

properly, you're gonna get other issues.

539

You, you can't expect to have everything

you want from the dog if their brain

540

isn't even developing properly.

541

you've got the behaviour

problems where dogs

542

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Excuse me.

543

Sorry.

544

Shay: and is making an appearance.

545

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

it's making me sneeze.

546

Shay: dogs will try and often try and,

um, fulfill their own lives by getting

547

into mischief and getting into bins

and, you know, chewing up the furniture.

548

And so you've got all that side of

it and then you've got the boredom

549

and, and, uh, going back to agency,

I think a lack of confidence because

550

there was not enough stimulation,

not enough development, not enough.

551

Letting the dog investigate

different things.

552

And, and, and overall you end

up with poor mental wellbeing.

553

I.

554

But, but it can be odd to, know,

put an exact figure on that because

555

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

556

Shay: who even sees it, you know, it's

557

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, that made me feel a bit sad.

558

Like if a dog's feeling

depressed, it's quite a, sorry,

559

state of affairs, isn't it?

560

If they're not getting Wow.

561

That enrichment, that, that, that, that,

562

Shay: but looking back, I've

seen lots of dogs in that state.

563

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

564

Shay: of dogs when I think about it

now, that don't that spark in their

565

relationship with their, uh, guardian

at all, because they've never learned

566

that their behaviour influences anything

because they, they've just, you know,

567

it's all exciting when they're a pup.

568

Sure.

569

But when a novelty wears off and it,

and it often does, they become a bit of

570

a, a burden to the, to the guardian and

they're just sort of forgotten about.

571

And we need to find ways of,

it's not just about the dog.

572

I always think people will always

say, oh, it's the dog's walk.

573

It's the dog's this, and, but.

574

The, the guardian needs

to find joy in it too.

575

So you need to find ways of enjoying

your dog as you're not gonna do it.

576

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, absolutely.

577

I guess that's where like the

different sports, like come in like,

578

you know, hoopers, agility, scent

work, doing stuff for your dog to

579

build on that bond and relationship.

580

Shay: Yeah, absolutely.

581

And when I started the enrichment start,

actually going right to back to the

582

beginning when I started the group, I was

thinking more along the lines of dogs that

583

are stuck at home, not dogs that are out

doing all these dog sports and all of it.

584

They don't need it so much, or they're

less likely to need it because they've

585

got a full active life with somebody who

takes them out and about and does stuff.

586

But

587

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

588

Um.

589

Shay: I always remember reading

a survey very long time ago, I'm

590

talking about over 30 years ago,

that the R-S-P-C-A did how many.

591

actually got walked every day.

592

Uh, it was, I can't remember the

figures, but it was staggeringly low

593

of dogs that never even left the house

or on a regular walk or, and that's

594

not to say that all dogs need a walk.

595

Um, 'cause some dogs, it's, it's

not the right thing for them.

596

It's too much for them or they've

597

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

598

Shay: but generally dogs should be going

out and about and being part of your life,

599

in my view, not, not locked up at home.

600

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

601

Agreed.

602

Shay: that's what I was more thinking

of when I started in Richmond.

603

It was for these dogs that

are often stuck at home.

604

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

605

Yeah.

606

Brilliant.

607

Um, are you able to break down

the different types of enrichment

608

and why they're all important?

609

I,

610

Shay: So for me, I made my own when

I was studying, um, in Richmond

611

and stuff like that at uni.

612

None of the, there's lots of different

ways that have been used to categorize

613

the different elements of enrichment.

614

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

615

Shay: none of them really, I.

616

I, I wasn't totally

comfortable with any of 'em.

617

It didn't make, uh, complete sense to me.

618

I, I don't think, audio is ever going

to, um, be a big thing in, in canine in

619

Richmond, although some people play the

music and, and that, but it's not, it's

620

not quite the same as old faction, you

know, so it doesn't even compare, does it?

621

So, so I,

622

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.

623

Shay: I did and that, that sort of formed,

um, what I did with the enrichment book.

624

Really, that's the way I broke

it down into different segments.

625

So I, um, and, and this one,

they all overlap a little bit,

626

the different, um, categories.

627

Um.

628

Um, but they do that, however you look at

it, however you look at enrichment, uh,

629

at whatever the category sort of thing is.

630

but one you never see

anywhere, which I have in mind.

631

And the first thing to

consider is actually safety.

632

And, and, you know, you think

how, how is safety enrichment?

633

But if the dog doesn't feel safe,

never gonna have an enriched life.

634

Safety comes before everything else.

635

You know, mammals need to find

a place of safety else, else.

636

That's their biggest concern.

637

Nothing else matters so much as safety.

638

Um, so, so you've always gotta look at,

you know, you want to be their place

639

of safety, uh, really, which is why

I'm so opposed to aversive training

640

and, and those sort of practices.

641

But the way I, the way I, uh, explain

it in, in, when I do talks on it.

642

Is that if you can imagine sitting

on a beach, if, if that's what

643

you like, it's not gonna work.

644

If you don't like that, um, reading

your nice, uh, your favorite book and

645

drinking your favorite drink, and it's

all lovely, peaceful, beautiful beach

646

with a, you know, beautiful clear sea.

647

Um, and then you take those exact

same things, that nice deck chair and

648

that nice book and that nice drink,

and you put them in the middle of

649

the M 25 on the central reservation,

um, you're, you're suddenly not gonna

650

find any of that enriching, are you?

651

It it's not possible because

you are bothered about your

652

safety, uh, rightly so.

653

So, um, enrichment isn't, these things

aren't enriching if you don't feel safe.

654

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

655

Shay: your dog a Kong

656

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I,

657

Shay: with fireworks

going off next to them.

658

it's, so safety is a big thing

for me, uh, in enrichment.

659

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

660

Shay: I go to food foraging,

which is a different category.

661

And, and that's a massive category.

662

and I must say when, when I

started enrichment, that's what

663

it, that's how I thought of really

as food, because it's so easy

664

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

665

Shay: dogs have to eat.

666

We all have to eat.

667

And in, in, in, in, if there wasn't

in captivity or any look at any other

668

animal, how much time they spend,

resources they put into getting enough

669

calories, you know, finding that

food, hunting, whatever it is, even

670

if it's grazing, they're spending

a lot of time doing that activity.

671

Um, and putting a lot of effort into it.

672

'cause it's what's gonna keep 'em alive.

673

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

674

Shay: and then for years and

years and years and years.

675

We've just put their food down

in front of them in a bowl.

676

And the two, I'm not saying you have

to just do one or the other, but

677

the, the contrast between the two

of those things is just so vast.

678

If you, I mean, I often feed

my dog in a bowl these days.

679

I didn't feed years.

680

Um, but if you're struggling for

things to find, to fulfill your

681

dog in an enrichment, enriching

way, that is the obvious go-to.

682

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

683

Shay: about making their

food difficult to, um, access

684

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

685

Shay: It's about engagement

and making it interesting.

686

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

687

Shay: them the opportunity to be

successful, not, not making it difficult.

688

Too many, too many people

do that, and they'll,

689

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

690

Shay: I, I wrap food up in a towel.

691

Um, I think I started

that craze off years ago.

692

Um, food up in a towel.

693

It is surprisingly not as easy as

you would think for a dog to us.

694

You just think, oh, it's just unroll it.

695

And you could teach a dog to just

unroll it properly and it'd be easy,

696

but if you don't do that, they're all

over the place with it and it all gets,

697

so it's not that it's not that easy.

698

Um, but then I see people only

recently on TikTok saying, oh no,

699

they've been doing it all wrong.

700

Doing that.

701

That's not difficult enough.

702

You've

703

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh God.

704

Shay: there and then you've

gotta tie the towel in a knot.

705

It's like, give the dog a chance.

706

It's just, it's just supposed

to be fun and engaging.

707

So, you know, so

708

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

don't want it to be frust.

709

You don't want it to

be frustrating, do you?

710

Like you say, it'll be fun.

711

Shay: So I always try and stress the

point now, you know, it's supposed

712

to be engaging, not difficult,

713

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

714

Shay: on.

715

Uh, I got another, uh, category, which

I call non-food activities, and, and

716

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

717

Shay: that came in

because too many people.

718

Um, concentrated on the food and, and,

and you don't want your relationship

719

with your dog to be all about food

because life isn't all about food.

720

And, and you can make the

dog obsessive over food.

721

Not like you need much

help when you're a Labrador

722

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

723

Shay: am,

724

So you've got non-food activity

and, and that can just be, um, like

725

playing with toys, like flirt poles

and, and stuff like that, which

726

don't have to involve food at all.

727

The dog is just enjoying

it for enjoyment itself.

728

'cause it finds it fun.

729

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

730

Shay: um, natural behaviours

I think is a real big one.

731

That's another category.

732

So there's five altogether categories,

um, natural behaviours, and ju these

733

are just ways of thinking about it.

734

You know, they're not all totally

separate, but it, it, but it makes you

735

think about what your dog might need.

736

And the most, the most obvious

for, for dogs is, is, um,

737

scenting, uh, being able to sniff,

738

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

739

Shay: doing, doing olfactory

games and, and stuff like that.

740

They just, couldn't recommend it enough.

741

You know, if you only did one thing with

your dog, it would be to, to eng engage.

742

Let them engage in

olfaction of, of some sort.

743

Do do something because That's

sort of what they was born to do.

744

That, uh, and it's been found in, you

know, studies that it increases optimism,

745

which is a great way, way of showing that

it's increasing their mental wellbeing.

746

Uh, 'cause

747

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

748

Shay: is, is strongly

linked to, to wellbeing.

749

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

750

Shay: So it's just a,

it's a no brainer, really.

751

And then the

752

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

753

Shay: is, uh, companionship

and bonding, um, which brings

754

us on to getting another dog.

755

And, you know, it doesn't always

have to be with another dog because

756

dogs bond with humans extremely well.

757

Um, so dogs can live quite

happily on their own.

758

Um, but they need that, that, that

figure in their lives, even if it's

759

a human, um, to really bond with them

and you to be their attachment figure.

760

And just like in, in children who,

who have an attachment figure, usually

761

their mother, you know, it can be their

father as well as just have to be one.

762

But, but usually, especially when

they're small, them, your mother is

763

your strongest attachment figure and.

764

The thing I always think with dogs,

the interesting thing is that I think

765

we've bred them over the years and

developed them to stay quite infantile.

766

I don't, many dogs don't really grow up.

767

I might, I might be bringing in

my influence with Labradors again

768

here, but you know, they just like

humans, they play into adulthood.

769

Um, a lot of animals don't because

they're more interested in having to

770

get enough food and stuff like that.

771

But we've done that.

772

We've bred, um, infantile

features on the face and, and

773

that all has a knock on effect.

774

So, and don't grow up to be independent.

775

They grow up, you know, they're

with us their own lives.

776

And so I think they do have quite

a lot of, uh, um, childishness

777

about them, if you like.

778

Um, a lot of dogs do at, at least.

779

And so probably that attachment

figure and that bonding is even more

780

important because it could be like,

it's a, a, a, a parent child type.

781

Type relationship.

782

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

783

Shay: And that's, so that's

how I sort of look at it.

784

And that's why I think the, the

companionship is so important,

785

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

definitely.

786

Shay: bond, you know, for them

787

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

788

Shay: of safety and trust and,

and to be able to enjoy life.

789

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

790

Okay.

791

Can I just summarize those

and repeat them back to you?

792

So Shay's, different types of enrichment.

793

There were five, we had safety at

number one, then food foraging.

794

Was that right?

795

I dunno if I caught the end of yet.

796

Food foraging.

797

Shay: have, they don't necessarily have

to be in that ho order that's just, you

798

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that's

just that, that's just your fight.

799

And then we got non-food

activities, natural behaviours,

800

and companionship and bonding.

801

Shay: Yeah.

802

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Lovely.

803

Right.

804

So our next, um, section is all

about enrichment for different

805

dogs and tailoring activities

to suit their individual needs.

806

How does a dog's breed history

and personality influence the type

807

of enrichment that they may need?

808

Shay?

809

Shay: I don't tend to look at

as much as you might think or

810

as much as other people do.

811

I'm not saying there's nothing in that.

812

'cause there is, you know, my

Labrador of, of loved water.

813

Um,

814

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Food and water.

815

Shay: but my first Labrador certainly

never swam 'cause he never went in

816

water deeper than he could paddle.

817

But he loved to splash

about in water, but he

818

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Uh.

819

Shay: enough to to, to take the plunge.

820

Uh,

821

and, and you absolutely have to

look at the individual, um, because

822

there's more, I think, more difference

between individuals of the same

823

breed than there is between breeds.

824

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

825

Shay: so I always think that's a, a.

826

I, I think it's good to consider what

your dog was bred to do, like, um, border

827

Collies and you know, you just watch 'em.

828

There's, there's five or six that

walk where I walk every morning,

829

go around in a group together, and

you just watch their behaviour.

830

And it is different to, to most dogs'

behaviour the way, the way they stalk

831

and run around and circle background

and, you know, so there's a lot in,

832

in genetics, but it's still massively

important to look at your individual dog

833

and, and learn what their preferences are.

834

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

835

Shay: I, I did some research when I was at

university on, on, it was on old faction.

836

And the difference between breeds and

837

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

838

Shay: expect to see is stronger old

faction ability, olfactory ability

839

in the breeds that have been bred.

840

detection.

841

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

842

Shay: Which was generally the case, but

one of the dogs that scored in the test

843

I was doing high as any other dog in the

whole thing, um, including caucus spaniels

844

and dogs like that was a greyhound.

845

Um, was able to detect and indicate

on, on the scent that a caucus

846

span, you know, at, at the same Um,

847

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

848

Shay: like that are quite surprise

surprised me, you know, you know, I

849

was already ready to write up that

they were useless at it and, and,

850

um, you know, I was expecting them

not to be that interested, um, back

851

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

852

Shay: So it's very, very surprising

that a dog, which was bred

853

to, to be a sight hound and to

chase what it could see, could.

854

Pick up the detection, you know,

the, the olfactory ability of dogs,

855

wherever the breed is absolutely

phenomenal, even with a brachycephalic

856

and, and you've got deformities inside

and, and all the rest of it, which

857

I've, you know, written up about.

858

still absolutely phenomenal and it, and

it still means a, a hell of a lot to them.

859

So you've got, you've absolutely gotta

look at the individuals, um, for that

860

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, yeah.

861

All about working with the dog

that's in front of you basically,

862

Shay: Yeah, absolutely.

863

And

864

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

865

Shay: as they age, it's, I, there's

nothing they can't do really.

866

It's, I, well, I think it's just

too easy to say, oh no, they're

867

old, they don't need to do anything.

868

And it,

869

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

870

Shay: it's, it's about just making

things a little bit simpler,

871

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

872

Shay: if you've got a, a,

a really old dog, you might

873

not wrap food up in a towel.

874

You might just put a soft toy

over it and they've just got

875

nudge off or pour it off, or,

876

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

877

Shay: an.

878

and again, you can, you can see

I've got a passion for olfaction.

879

'cause again, coming back to the,

the olfactory system, the Doug's

880

sense of smell is that the, the,

881

the receptors in the olfactory, um, at the

back of the nose in the, in the olfactory

882

recess actually reproduce, uh, themselves

every about eight weeks I think it is.

883

So you might think you've got a

14-year-old dog, but the scent

884

receptors are, are, are, are

pretty new and active and, and

885

brilliant still, even at that age.

886

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

887

Um, I think that brings us onto our next

question about senior dogs, but what

888

I was gonna say is that dogs may lose

their sight or their hearing, but they're

889

never gonna lose their sense of smile.

890

It's their strongest sense, isn't it

891

Shay: Now it's very unlikely you

do have some dogs with, with, um,

892

I forget what they call it now,

a nod smear, something like that.

893

Uh, which basically, um, the

loss of a, the sense of smell,

894

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: really?

895

I never knew that.

896

Shay: yeah, yeah.

897

Uh, just like you can

get in humans so you, you

898

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh yeah,

899

Shay: but it's, uh, I

think it's quite rare and,

900

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: right.

901

Shay: looking at introducing, you

know, other things instead, obviously.

902

Um,

903

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

904

Shay: but it's, it's, yeah,

very, very important to him.

905

I, I think more so than anything

else, other than safety really.

906

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

907

Brilliant.

908

So for those senior dogs or those that

may have some mobility issues, are

909

there any lower impact enrichment ideas

that we can tell our listeners about?

910

Shay: yeah, it doesn't, um, you.

911

I, I'm not sure that age, but, but

like dogs who've done, um, agility

912

and that sort of thing, you now have

the, the, I I'm saying new sports,

913

but it's been around for a while now.

914

You've got things like hoopers, which

is a lot less stress on joints and stuff

915

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

916

Shay: yeah.

917

So you can still get out and do stuff.

918

And, and the scent thing is, you

know, no dog's ever gonna get

919

bored with, um, sniffing around.

920

Uh, that can make such a big difference.

921

That's got nothing to do with age.

922

You don't have to walk very far.

923

You can even bring scents into the house

in, in, you know, I've seen people, um,

924

bring in leaves in, in, in autumn, and for

925

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

926

Shay: to smell who can't

927

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

928

Shay: anymore.

929

I think that the thing to remember there

is the, is the safety side of it or the,

930

it maybe not safety, but the dog feeling

safe in that if you've got an anxious

931

dog, they might not like the smell of

other dogs in their, in their house.

932

So you've gotta be a little bit

careful with, with the s sense

933

that you're, you're bringing in.

934

But, and I add.

935

I had a 14-year-old,

uh, west Island Terrier.

936

Um, and she was still learning new tricks.

937

Um, I had to do a project for university

where they, I had to teach something that,

938

that the dog had never learned before.

939

I had, um, I had to do something with that

I'd never done and a totally new thing.

940

And so it is like impossible to think

of anything with the Labrador I was

941

training 'cause we'd just done everything.

942

So I had to use Daisy for, for,

for, for this, um, shaping exercise.

943

Uh, so she was still

learning stuff at that age.

944

So, you know, the brain, you, you've

gotta go off the individual, like I

945

say, um, you, there's, there's so much.

946

You can do to make life easier.

947

You know, if, if the dog's going

on the sofa, you can get a little

948

stool for 'em to step up onto it.

949

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

950

Shay: you know, they, they still

wanna lay on the sofa next year, but

951

getting off can be quite, you know,

induce quite a lot of anxiety for 'em

952

because they know it might be painful.

953

And, and then I think you can get

behaviour problems coming in, in, in,

954

you know, uh, peeing indoors and stuff

like that just because it's such an

955

effort for 'em to, to do otherwise.

956

So we've gotta, we've just gotta

tailor things really and, and simplify

957

them, um, and just make them a bit

easier for the dog so, you know, they

958

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

959

Shay: cope and still enjoy life.

960

I think the thing to think really

is, is just not to give up on them.

961

It should be for, for the years

of joy they've given us, too

962

many people see their old dog as

just a bit of a pain really now.

963

'cause

964

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

965

Shay: they don't get their

joy out of him or whatever.

966

And, and really it's a privilege to

be able to look after 'em in their,

967

in their later years, I think.

968

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

969

They're not with us long, so Yeah.

970

I'd hate, I'd hate that.

971

Shay: And like even things

like, uh, just come to mind.

972

It's like, um, you, you get the

fabric food forages, um, that was

973

introduced a couple of years ago.

974

So if the dog doesn't like, you

know, the noise of things that

975

clatter around and all these are all

nice and quiet and, and soft things

976

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

977

Shay: a snuffle mat, things like that,

they could still, you know, there's

978

nothing difficult about a snuffle mat.

979

Most, they actually was over exaggerated

in how good they were, because most

980

dogs find them ridiculously easy.

981

But you can imagine a dog, an older

dog who's not getting out much.

982

That snuffle mat could be a brilliant,

brilliant for them to be finding little

983

bits of food in and foraging around in.

984

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely.

985

Um, so many guardians of nervous

or anxious dogs, um, that struggle

986

with traditional activities.

987

How can enrichment help

these dogs feel more secure?

988

Shay,

989

Shay: Well, I think it comes in, and

again, I never used to, this is new

990

for me, really over recent years.

991

'cause I, I, I never

992

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.

993

Shay: in, in Richmond as, as a,

a problem behaviour solver if,

994

you know, I mean, I was just

thinking of it as beating boredom.

995

But, you know, it's developed over

the years and so now I think that

996

enrichment can be done at home.

997

So you've got anxious dogs or whatever,

much that you can do at home with the

998

dog that they're then not experiencing

that anxiety outside and it allows them

999

to build confidence and an opportunity

to be successful just like food foraging

00:43:50,521 --> 00:43:52,531

in the garden and, and stuff like that.

00:43:53,191 --> 00:43:54,991

Uh, and through that.

00:43:55,021 --> 00:44:01,171

Uh, activity, they gain confidence,

you know, you a sense search, um,

00:44:01,171 --> 00:44:04,561

a find it game or you know, they're

going off to, to find something

00:44:04,561 --> 00:44:05,671

you've hidden in the garden.

00:44:06,331 --> 00:44:10,651

I think, you know, allows them to build

confidence because, you know, they're,

00:44:10,651 --> 00:44:12,181

they're acting under their own steam.

00:44:12,181 --> 00:44:12,811

You are not.

00:44:13,681 --> 00:44:14,671

do this, do that.

00:44:14,671 --> 00:44:17,311

It's, you know, it is for

them to enjoy if they want to.

00:44:18,091 --> 00:44:21,661

Uh, so it gives them confidence

and it also gives them a focus.

00:44:21,661 --> 00:44:24,781

And they, they've got something,

you know, more constructive

00:44:24,781 --> 00:44:26,431

and, and more useful to do.

00:44:27,091 --> 00:44:30,631

And it allows us to work

with the dog without any real

00:44:30,631 --> 00:44:32,221

expectation being put on them.

00:44:32,371 --> 00:44:32,911

'cause if they've got

00:44:33,065 --> 00:44:33,355

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:44:33,391 --> 00:44:35,941

Shay: they've got anxiety, they've

got fears, they've got, you know,

00:44:36,331 --> 00:44:39,841

that's why I think enrichment is

brilliant in, in that area because

00:44:39,841 --> 00:44:41,881

we are not piling on more pressure.

00:44:41,911 --> 00:44:46,021

Nobody, probably very few people,

they're doing it wrong if they do.

00:44:46,021 --> 00:44:50,431

But most people aren't doing

enrichment activities with any great

00:44:50,431 --> 00:44:54,331

expectation of what the outcome's

got to be like, like you would with

00:44:54,331 --> 00:44:57,841

obedience or, you know, making the

dog sit and stay for 10 minutes.

00:44:57,841 --> 00:45:01,571

So there's a lot of pressure on dogs when

we are teach you those sort of behaviours

00:45:01,951 --> 00:45:04,471

that you just don't get in enrichment.

00:45:04,651 --> 00:45:05,131

It's not

00:45:05,195 --> 00:45:05,485

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:45:06,151 --> 00:45:08,761

Shay: how good you are, how

good the dog is, how you know,

00:45:08,945 --> 00:45:09,165

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No.

00:45:10,051 --> 00:45:11,551

Shay: it's about, you know.

00:45:12,361 --> 00:45:14,551

Engagement with, with, with the world.

00:45:14,945 --> 00:45:15,235

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:45:15,511 --> 00:45:21,931

Shay: I think it can, um, just help

take the pressure off all that and give

00:45:22,065 --> 00:45:22,545

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:45:23,101 --> 00:45:23,821

Shay: else to do.

00:45:23,881 --> 00:45:25,951

And you can use it out and

about, you know, you can,

00:45:27,961 --> 00:45:31,711

I'm a little bit torn to

say it and I'll explain why.

00:45:31,771 --> 00:45:35,941

So you can do these activities when

you're out and about to prevent, um,

00:45:35,941 --> 00:45:41,461

the dog misbehaving, whatever, being

reactive, running off somewhere else,

00:45:41,461 --> 00:45:44,431

paying attention to something else you

don't want 'em to play with by playing

00:45:44,431 --> 00:45:46,411

enrichment games, doing a scent game.

00:45:46,831 --> 00:45:51,691

But really, I, I think that

brings it into a little bit,

00:45:52,741 --> 00:45:55,621

rather than it being enrichment.

00:45:56,295 --> 00:45:56,415

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

00:45:56,671 --> 00:45:58,441

Shay: so you, you end

up with a bit of a mix.

00:45:58,441 --> 00:45:59,971

I don't call that enrichment.

00:45:59,971 --> 00:46:03,331

You are not doing that for

the dog's sake to increase.

00:46:03,706 --> 00:46:06,526

Their, their, their

level of en engagement.

00:46:06,526 --> 00:46:11,146

You are doing it, um, to, to try and

avoid something else, which I'm not saying

00:46:11,146 --> 00:46:15,101

that's not useful, but I don't consider

it to be purely enrichment either.

00:46:15,990 --> 00:46:17,910

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, totally understand that.

00:46:17,970 --> 00:46:18,149

Yeah.

00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:18,660

Brilliant.

00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:19,560

Thank you.

00:46:19,620 --> 00:46:22,350

We are gonna be moving on to

our next section, which is

00:46:22,350 --> 00:46:27,419

all about easy budget friendly

enrichment ideas for everyday life.

00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:31,740

Um, one of the biggest misconceptions

is that enrichment has to be

00:46:31,740 --> 00:46:33,990

ex, uh, has to be expensive.

00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:39,029

Um, but can you share any simple

low cost ideas that guardians,

00:46:39,089 --> 00:46:40,470

guardians could try at home?

00:46:41,176 --> 00:46:41,476

Shay: Yeah.

00:46:41,476 --> 00:46:43,006

And that is absolutely right.

00:46:43,066 --> 00:46:46,036

Um, I, I do remember one of the

problems when I first started

00:46:46,036 --> 00:46:49,486

the enrichment group is people

complaining about that's very thing.

00:46:49,984 --> 00:46:50,335

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right?

00:46:50,416 --> 00:46:55,546

Shay: of the, some of the

enrichment, um, toys are so expensive

00:46:55,964 --> 00:46:56,254

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:46:56,296 --> 00:46:59,566

Shay: they're not suitable for all people,

or they don't use them in the, in the

00:46:59,566 --> 00:47:04,456

right way, or they leave the dog, um,

not supervised and it gets destroyed.

00:47:04,456 --> 00:47:08,266

And, you know, some, some of these

toys are like 40, 50, 60 pound easily.

00:47:08,865 --> 00:47:09,255

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:47:09,856 --> 00:47:17,026

Shay: So it's not always cheap, but always

say that you don't need buy any of those

00:47:17,026 --> 00:47:21,856

things to give your dog an enriched,

you know, an enriching experience.

00:47:22,424 --> 00:47:22,875

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:47:23,916 --> 00:47:29,431

Shay: Some of the things I've done at home

is things like, um, toilet rule tubes.

00:47:29,805 --> 00:47:30,345

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:47:30,511 --> 00:47:32,341

Shay: that craze off

many years ago as well.

00:47:32,341 --> 00:47:36,241

Saving them all up, um, putting a

little treat in them, folding the ends

00:47:36,241 --> 00:47:42,511

over and then I, you can just give it

to the dog like that, but I saved all

00:47:42,511 --> 00:47:46,741

mine up and I had, I had hundreds, I've

got a video of it somewhere, and then

00:47:46,741 --> 00:47:50,641

I would just put a treat in about five

of them out of, you know, a couple of

00:47:50,641 --> 00:47:56,221

hundred, and then I'd tip 'em all out

on the floor and the dog would search

00:47:56,221 --> 00:47:57,631

to see which one had the food in.

00:47:57,901 --> 00:48:01,321

Then, then they're not ripping 'em all

open because dogs out aren't that silly.

00:48:01,531 --> 00:48:05,221

They're smelling which one's got the

food in and then opening just that one.

00:48:05,341 --> 00:48:06,871

So you wouldn't start at that level.

00:48:06,871 --> 00:48:11,071

You'd start at just having one with

food in and then having one with food

00:48:11,071 --> 00:48:13,861

in and one without, and the dog, you

know, finds which one's got the food

00:48:13,861 --> 00:48:15,241

in and you just build up to that.

00:48:15,525 --> 00:48:16,485

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

such a good idea?

00:48:16,861 --> 00:48:17,851

Shay: it's totally free.

00:48:17,851 --> 00:48:19,201

It's stuff you would throw away.

00:48:20,295 --> 00:48:23,625

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

like cardboard boxes and packaging.

00:48:23,625 --> 00:48:23,955

Yeah.

00:48:23,955 --> 00:48:23,956

The,

00:48:24,646 --> 00:48:26,206

Shay: boxes is the obvious one.

00:48:26,266 --> 00:48:28,336

Uh, cereal packaging, stuff like that.

00:48:28,336 --> 00:48:32,146

You've just sort of gotta be

careful, especially with these

00:48:32,506 --> 00:48:35,296

big boxes that you're gonna get

off Amazon and big deliveries.

00:48:35,326 --> 00:48:40,486

'cause sometimes they've got staples in

them and, excuse me, my voice is going.

00:48:40,906 --> 00:48:44,596

And, um, so, and you've gotta be

careful of the glues that are used.

00:48:44,596 --> 00:48:48,106

And so you don't want dogs sitting

there chewing the cardboard.

00:48:48,106 --> 00:48:51,976

I think it's fine to, to rip it and

tear it and find what's inside it, but I

00:48:51,976 --> 00:48:53,836

would not use it if they're chewing it.

00:48:53,836 --> 00:48:56,356

I don't want the glues in their

mouth and stuff like that.

00:48:56,776 --> 00:49:02,236

Um, one of the things I do a lot is,

is just, um, getting a piece of food

00:49:02,236 --> 00:49:05,776

and flicking it across the floor and

it's, you know, it's as simple as that.

00:49:05,776 --> 00:49:09,736

And that has, in behaviour

work that has worked.

00:49:10,471 --> 00:49:14,461

Quite well in for dogs that

people have told me won't eat.

00:49:15,271 --> 00:49:18,181

as soon as you make that food come

alive and just flick it across the

00:49:18,181 --> 00:49:22,051

floor one piece at a time, suddenly

it's engaging for the dog and, and,

00:49:22,051 --> 00:49:26,611

and can help them, um, you know, get

their appetite to chase it and eat it.

00:49:27,515 --> 00:49:27,805

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:49:27,991 --> 00:49:28,291

Shay: Um,

00:49:28,484 --> 00:49:28,685

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that.

00:49:29,131 --> 00:49:33,001

Shay: the treasure hunt, again, it's just

things you're gonna feed them anyway.

00:49:33,301 --> 00:49:37,201

You, um, you can hide it around the house.

00:49:37,381 --> 00:49:38,791

Again, it's so simple.

00:49:39,541 --> 00:49:45,211

Uh, most dogs don't need much teaching

with this, but you would just put it

00:49:45,211 --> 00:49:47,491

down, let 'em see where you're putting

it, and they're gonna go and get it.

00:49:47,491 --> 00:49:49,741

And then you slowly increase that to, to

00:49:49,845 --> 00:49:50,235

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:49:50,611 --> 00:49:54,511

Shay: or more things and, and, and,

and putting it further out of sight.

00:49:54,511 --> 00:49:57,301

And then putting the dog in another room

and hiding them all and getting them

00:49:57,301 --> 00:50:02,251

to come in and, and searching for maybe

five or six little pots with food in it.

00:50:02,701 --> 00:50:03,586

And then with that game.

00:50:05,251 --> 00:50:09,001

I always have a, have a sort of a

finished queue so they know they've found

00:50:09,001 --> 00:50:11,251

them all, otherwise they're searching

around and there's nothing less.

00:50:11,251 --> 00:50:14,161

So, so I might have a treat

in my hand and say, all done.

00:50:14,161 --> 00:50:15,541

When they're all found and, and

00:50:15,885 --> 00:50:16,335

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:50:16,381 --> 00:50:17,071

Shay: something like that.

00:50:17,521 --> 00:50:20,941

Um, a handful of food

dropped in their toy box.

00:50:20,971 --> 00:50:25,231

You know, they've gotta find all these

bits of food in the bottom of a, a toy box

00:50:25,231 --> 00:50:27,031

that you might think the dog never uses.

00:50:27,031 --> 00:50:29,281

So it brings the toy box

back to life as well.

00:50:29,830 --> 00:50:30,120

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:50:30,271 --> 00:50:36,391

Shay: short training sessions or play

sessions, um, while the kettle boils, why

00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:36,960

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: is more.

00:50:37,171 --> 00:50:38,161

Shay: for the kettle to boil

00:50:38,165 --> 00:50:38,455

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:50:38,491 --> 00:50:40,801

Shay: can just have a little

interaction with the dog.

00:50:41,221 --> 00:50:46,111

I do a thing where I've got three buckets

and I put 'em all together and then I just

00:50:46,111 --> 00:50:49,741

throw treats across the room or the garden

into the bucket, and then the dog has to

00:50:49,741 --> 00:50:52,111

go and work out which, um, bucket it's in.

00:50:52,351 --> 00:50:55,801

So it's, it's very, very easy and

most of my enrichment is easy, but

00:50:55,801 --> 00:50:57,451

it's about engagement, you know.

00:50:57,625 --> 00:50:57,915

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:50:57,931 --> 00:50:58,471

Shay: Um.

00:50:59,065 --> 00:50:59,355

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:50:59,506 --> 00:51:00,256

Shay: bottles.

00:51:00,376 --> 00:51:01,096

What, what?

00:51:01,126 --> 00:51:02,926

Dog doesn't love a plastic bottle.

00:51:03,286 --> 00:51:05,656

Um, they just totally free.

00:51:05,656 --> 00:51:07,396

You're gonna throw it

in the recycling later.

00:51:07,636 --> 00:51:10,306

They love squashing a plastic bottle up.

00:51:10,726 --> 00:51:12,766

Um, and plant pots.

00:51:12,796 --> 00:51:16,666

I've never known a dog that

doesn't adore an empty plant pot.

00:51:16,666 --> 00:51:20,116

If you, if you're doing planting in a

garden, I dunno what it is about 'em,

00:51:20,176 --> 00:51:25,486

they just absolutely love the way they,

the, the noise they make or, or whatever.

00:51:25,876 --> 00:51:30,916

Um, plastic, like beak, beaker

cups stack in, in, on top of each

00:51:30,916 --> 00:51:32,356

other with food in between them.

00:51:32,416 --> 00:51:35,746

You know, you put a treat in the cup

and then put another beaker on top,

00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:36,569

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

00:51:36,646 --> 00:51:40,426

Shay: towels, which we've already

covered, covered, um, sniffing, even

00:51:40,426 --> 00:51:42,076

sniffing the shopping when it comes in.

00:51:42,376 --> 00:51:44,506

So I, I, I love that now.

00:51:44,566 --> 00:51:48,286

Uh, other, the dog sniffs around

all the shopping bags years ago.

00:51:48,706 --> 00:51:50,416

We'd have been telling

the dog off for that.

00:51:50,734 --> 00:51:51,025

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

00:51:51,106 --> 00:51:54,736

Shay: think how things have changed

and it just makes me smile that, you

00:51:54,736 --> 00:51:57,706

know, I quite like the dog getting

in my way now and, and trying to

00:51:57,990 --> 00:51:59,310

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Sniffing in the bags.

00:51:59,326 --> 00:51:59,566

Shay: yeah,

00:51:59,850 --> 00:52:00,509

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I love that.

00:52:00,646 --> 00:52:05,506

Shay: if they nix stuff and run off,

but if they can resist that temptation,

00:52:06,256 --> 00:52:08,836

it's just involving the dog more really.

00:52:08,836 --> 00:52:12,046

And, and like I said, it doesn't

have to cost anything at all.

00:52:12,475 --> 00:52:12,765

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:52:12,990 --> 00:52:13,410

Just.

00:52:13,456 --> 00:52:16,336

Shay: I do buy a lot of enrichment

stuff, or I have over the years.

00:52:16,336 --> 00:52:17,326

I don't so much now.

00:52:17,506 --> 00:52:21,646

But you don't have to, you can,

you can have, not about that.

00:52:22,695 --> 00:52:24,735

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Just,

um, sounds like just about using your

00:52:24,735 --> 00:52:29,205

imagination and just, you know, having fun

with it and just, it doesn't have to cost

00:52:29,205 --> 00:52:32,355

a lot, just things that you've got around

the home that you'd maybe throw away.

00:52:32,686 --> 00:52:32,986

Shay: yeah.

00:52:32,986 --> 00:52:35,446

Everything before you throw it

in the recycling is, is just

00:52:35,446 --> 00:52:37,246

to think, oh, could I use this?

00:52:37,306 --> 00:52:40,216

Could, could this, you know, anything

anyone's throwing away, I always

00:52:40,216 --> 00:52:44,296

think, could I use this before it gets

thrown away to, even if it's just to

00:52:44,296 --> 00:52:46,036

hide something in for the dog to find.

00:52:46,485 --> 00:52:47,300

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely.

00:52:47,731 --> 00:52:48,061

Shay: is.

00:52:48,825 --> 00:52:50,805

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

scent work is one of the best

00:52:50,805 --> 00:52:52,420

ways to engage a dog's brain.

00:52:52,470 --> 00:52:53,985

We've spoken a bit about it.

00:52:54,255 --> 00:52:59,775

Are there any, um, easy scent based games

that don't require special equipment,

00:52:59,775 --> 00:53:03,195

so you could just do some scatter

feeding and find it and stuff like that?

00:53:03,931 --> 00:53:04,831

Shay: Yeah, absolutely.

00:53:04,831 --> 00:53:06,511

And again, I have to come back to.

00:53:07,621 --> 00:53:10,231

You know, even if you do nothing

else, let your dog stop and

00:53:10,231 --> 00:53:12,511

sniff because that's undervalued.

00:53:13,291 --> 00:53:16,051

know, it's, that's what

dogs need to do, you know.

00:53:16,531 --> 00:53:21,241

But the, the, the main scent things

that I do is either a food search

00:53:21,421 --> 00:53:22,771

and I call 'em different for things.

00:53:22,771 --> 00:53:25,711

So the dog knows if they're looking

for food or looking for a scent.

00:53:26,191 --> 00:53:30,601

So I'll do, I actually say to the dog,