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Dog enrichment explained: How to keep your dog happy, calm & fulfilled with Shay Kelly
Episode 1920th August 2025 • The Yappy Hour • Yappily
00:00:00 01:12:40

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Enrichment is essential, not optional — and in this episode of The Yappy Hour we dive into how to keep your dog truly happy, calm, and fulfilled.

Host Nathan Dunleavy chats with canine enrichment expert and author Shay Kelly, who shares why enrichment matters, how it prevents behaviour problems, and simple enrichment ideas you can do at home today.

Whether you have a playful puppy, a senior dog, or a nervous rescue, this episode is packed with practical, budget-friendly advice to help you strengthen your bond and give your dog a life worth living.

🐾 What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

00:00 – Welcome & introduction to Shay Kelly

04:30 – What enrichment really means (beyond puzzle toys)

12:10 – The 5 types of enrichment every dog needs

19:40 – Why safety is the foundation of enrichment

28:15 – Enrichment for puppies vs. senior dogs

38:00 – How enrichment helps nervous or anxious dogs

46:00 – Budget-friendly enrichment ideas you can try today

55:00 – How enrichment prevents behaviour problems

1:04:00 – Final thoughts: enrichment is essential, not optional

👉 Don’t forget to subscribe to The Yappy Hour for more expert conversations on dog training, behaviour, and wellbeing.

Transcripts

Speaker:

Welcome to The Yappy Hour, powered by

Yappily, the podcast for dog lovers

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who want to better understand and

connect with their four legged friends.

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I'm your host Nathan Dunleavy,

and today we're diving into

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one of the most important and.

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Often overlooked aspects

of dog care enrichment.

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My guest is Mr.

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Shay Kelly, a leading expert in canine

enrichment behaviour and training.

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Shay is the author of several books on dog

behaviour and is passionate about helping

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pet parents create happier and fulfilled

lives for their dogs through simple.

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Practical enrichment techniques.

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In this episode, we explore why enrichment

is essential, how it can pr, prevent, and

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solve behavioural issues and easy ways to

introduce more enrichment into your dog's

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daily routine without spending a fortune.

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Whether you have a high energy pup,

a senior dog, or a nervous rescue,

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this episode is full of inspiration

and actionable and actionable advice.

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So grab a cup of tea, settle

in, and let's get started.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Come back to the Yappy

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Hour, powered by Yappily.

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I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy,

and I'm so excited to bring

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you another episode today.

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Even more excited that we have the legend.

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That is, is Mr.

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Shay Kelly joining us on the episode.

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Um, welcome Shay.

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Um, so we're gonna be talking all

about enrichment and why it's so

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important for your dog, and it's

gonna be a great jam packed episode.

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So Shay, welcome to the Yappy Hour.

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As I've said, I'm so excited

to have you with us today.

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How are you doing?

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Shay: I am very well, thank you.

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Thanks for having me on here.

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Always nice to talk about, uh,

anything dog related, really.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Absolutely.

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No, you're most welcome.

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I'm so she.

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For those that might not be familiar

with your work, could you share a little

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bit about your background and how you've

became so impassionate about enrichment?

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Shay: Oh, it's, uh, a long story,

which I'll try and make a bit

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's okay.

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You, you, you go for it.

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Shay: As, uh, going right back

to childhood, I, I would say I

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didn't really gel with, uh, people

so much as I jelled with animals.

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And so it was always that natural

progression from there really.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, lovely.

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Shay: as an adult, uh,

uh, nothing changed.

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I was still, I still felt more

connection to an animal where, you

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

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Shay: know, there there's no social

pressures and, and all that sort

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of thing that you get with, uh,

with human social activities.

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And, you know, I'm not

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

absolutely.

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Shay: and all that.

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I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm,

I'm chatty online, but I'm not

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really, uh, in the real world.

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I sort of keep myself to myself.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, I feel privileged that you've

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come onto onto the hour with me then.

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Shay: Yeah.

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So, uh, uh, in, into adulthood I sort

of got into obedience and, and sort

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of liked training, um, like that.

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And then I got into trick

training as time went by.

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Um, I worked in rescue kennels

and I ran training classes.

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And then I went to university and,

um, did three degrees 'cause I got a

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bit addicted to it on, uh, touring dog

training and one on animal behaviour.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

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Shay: for dog aid assistance dogs, and

I do the occasional guest lecture, uh,

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sometimes for the uni that I went to.

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And, uh, I've done a few

other talks for people.

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I've done a, done one

for Isha Stewart, and,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

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Shay: written my books as well, which

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes.

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Shay: a sort of a long, a

long term, um, dream really.

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But I'd never expected it to happen.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh wow.

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Well, we're gonna be chatting

about your books as well.

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I've got one here with me.

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So we are gonna be coming onto

your books, so that's fantastic.

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Three degrees, I dunno how you

manage that, but fair play to you.

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Shay: Well, when, when you consider I left

school without a single qualification,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

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Shay: it was quite a

surprise for me as well.

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But when you get hooked on something

that you're really passionate for, you

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

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Shay: I, it, it wasn't, uh, it was

difficult, but it wasn't, um, it

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was, it was something I wanted to do.

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I was sort of addicted to it.

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I, I, I spent every day thinking about it.

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It over, it, it overtook my life, really.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

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Shay: I sort of really lived it.

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I was always working on an

assignment of, of some kind

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Shay: So I did the first two degrees and

then I, I wasn't gonna do the masters.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

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Shay: uh, but, but after, after about

two months of doing nothing, I was

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like, I, I had to book again, so I

had to go back the following year.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

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What an inspiration.

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I love that fair play to you.

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Like you say, you got addicted to it

and you're clearly passionate about

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it, so that's absolutely brilliant.

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Um, so you've written several books.

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We, um, we touched on your books just now

all about dog behaviour and enrichment.

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What inspired you to

focus on these topics?

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Shay: I think, I think really the, the

enrichment came along almost accidentally.

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Um, I, I wasn't massively more into

enrichment than anything else, but I,

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I, I was more into dog tricks and, and

I had a, I did, I did a, a Facebook

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group where people won different awards.

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Um, dog trick geeks.

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It was called many, many years ago.

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Um, but it became about it.

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It was nice, but part of it,

people become obsessed in just, I.

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What they're trying to achieve and,

and not the journey to get there.

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I just wanted something that wasn't about

being the best and, and you know, just

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enjoying your dog, whatever level they

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Shay: or whatever level you were on.

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I didn't want it ev Everything

in the in in the dog world seemed

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to be a competition and that's

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

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Shay: a little bit

uncomfortable with, I would say.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

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Shay: even though I enjoyed that stuff,

I was a little bit uncomfortable with it.

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It,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Shay: about the relationship

so much as it was about, oh, I

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wanna be the best at something.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Shay: looking around at enrichment

then, and there was a lot around

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about, um, there was things called

like, do more with your dog and

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things like that, but there was no.

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At that time, there was no umbrella

term of canine in Richmond.

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It just

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.

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Shay: seem to exist.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

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Shay: I started the first, uh, enrichment

group because I couldn't find anything

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online at all when I was looking.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

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Shay: I think I got the idea, and it's

a long time ago now, but I think I

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got the idea from the, um, zoo groups.

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'cause there was some for zookeepers,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

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Right.

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Shay: it just puzzled me that there

wasn't one for dogs when we, we

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were all keeping them in our homes.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Shay: I started my own.

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And, and that really is, is one of, it was

the right, wasn't because I was brilliant,

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it because it was just the right thing

at the right time and it really took off.

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You know, I had thousands and

thousands of members in no time.

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And then other, other groups appear with

similar names and it just grew from there.

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And now it's everywhere.

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You don't, don't see a

behaviour conference without it

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mentioned or a workshop horror.

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So I, I like to think I had a little

part to play in that and it makes

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely.

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Yeah.

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Fair play.

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Definitely.

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Um, one of your books is all about

enrichment as well, isn't it?

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Shay: Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Shay: and, and

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

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Shay: the first book to be

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

that was the first one.

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Shay: now, but it's the first book to

be written solely for dog enrichment.

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It's,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

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Shay: does seem odd.

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now there's loads and, and loads, which is

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

you can always, you'll always be

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one of the, you are always the first

though, so that's a good accolade.

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Shay: Yeah.

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It's

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's, that's brilliant.

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I've got one of your books as well.

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I've got puppy nurture, but I think

this one's been released again,

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isn't it Sha if I got that wrong,

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Shay: No, you got that wrong.

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KKKK nine.

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Enrichment is the only

one with a second edition.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Ah, there we go.

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Right?

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Yep.

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Okay, so is that done now?

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I did see something

that you were doing it.

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Yeah,

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Shay: Yeah, that one's done.

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And I'm working on a book which is taking

much longer than the others, which is

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just about, um, recall, um, because of

the problems people have with recall.

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But it's the first time I've

written a whole book on just one

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behaviour, if you know what I mean.

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So

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

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Shay: quite a, it's

quite challenging really.

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'cause you don't wanna fill it

with waffle to make it a book.

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All it has to be meaningful.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

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Shay: if, if, if you look at my

training book, you know, the, the,

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the recall exercise takes up, I

don't know, two or three pages, uh,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.

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Shay: So you're trying to write

a whole book on that one subject.

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So it has a lot of, it's in

a holistic approach really.

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It has a lot of, um.

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Things that will benefit the

relationship and benefit the

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recall and, and stuff like that.

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And building up slowly.

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And I'm, I'm only about

halfway through, so,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

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Shay: it's very slow going.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I'm, I'm, I'm told that, um, they

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do sometimes take a while as a bit

of labor of love writing a book.

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Shay: Abso, you have to, you

have to see it that way really.

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I, I, I sort of, for me,

it's sort of like a therapy.

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It's just some

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's nice.

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Shay: being able to write things down.

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And it's not all the hustle and

bustle of Facebook or social media,

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you know, it's just your little

space to, to write whatever you want

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

You could

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Shay: don't get much argument about it.

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You know,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No,

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Shay: the, the, the people who are

reading it are, are say at home, not, not

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

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Not behind a, yeah.

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Shay: every little word.

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Yeah.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Not behind a keyboard.

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So it's almost a bit of

an escapism I gather.

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Shay: there's, there's,

there's no money in it really.

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It's not a business.

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It has to be a passion.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Shay: there's, there's just

so many books out there now.

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Everybody has, you know, you can,

you don't even need a publisher.

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You can self-publish.

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It's very easy.

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everyone's writing them.

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Some are not very good to start with.

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And then now you've got that, um,

AI stuff coming in, which Amazon are

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willing to, to sell just about anything,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.

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Shay: it.

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Um, even a computer,

they're not very good.

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The technology's not there yet to

make the books very good there, but

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if they pay for the advertising, which

they do, they get their book up there

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in all the searches, and that's what

people are buying, unfortunately.

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So it's a very difficult marketplace.

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So you, you know, you have to just

do it for yourself and enjoy your

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work being out there for people if

they, if they choose to read it.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Exactly.

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So your book that you are in

the middle of then, is it just

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gonna be ready when it's ready?

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You just take your time with it.

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Shay: I, I, people keep asking

me and I keep, I keep, I

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move the goalpost each time,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's fine.

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Shay: the, the, I was hoping this

summer, but it's, uh, there's, there's

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still quite a lot to do and I'm

getting a puppy in four weeks time,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I've

seen, I've seen you're getting a puppy.

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Yeah.

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So puppy nurture.

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Then you, you, you've, you

know, you've got, you know what

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you do with your new puppy,

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Shay: Yeah.

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I'll, I'll reread the book

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

you'll reread the bit.

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So what number was this?

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Was this number two or number three?

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Because you've got a few out

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Shay: but Canine Enrichment had a second

edition, so it depends how you, how you

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

how you do it.

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Shay: Um, I, I have kept

the original on sale.

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I took it off sale for a while, but

then I put it back on very cheap

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'cause people seem to want it so.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

fair enough.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well I have, I'll definitely

have a lookout for that one.

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Um, I dunno what made me brought that.

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I think I saw it in, in one of your

groups I was in and I went and got it.

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But I do know you had some others,

so I will be looking out for those

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Shay: Yeah,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yes, you are new.

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Shay: that puppy nurture is the

one I'm most proud of really.

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It's not the

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh.

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Shay: I'd ever read, but I, I was

really, really pleased with that

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book, more so than, than any of

the other books that I've written.

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Um,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: okay.

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Shay: you know, I, I've, there is

so many puppy books out there, just

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everyone seems to write a puppy book.

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And I suppose that's when people are

buying and looking around is when they

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get a puppy, they're looking for what to

get and what they need and, and all that.

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But they're not very good.

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Uh,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

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Shay: had, I just had to write

one that didn't have something

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in it that didn't make me cringe.

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'cause I've not

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That,

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Shay: yet.

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So

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

fair enough.

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Shay: I was pleased to have that one.

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You know, even some of the really,

I'm not gonna mention 'em for obvious

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reasons, but some of the really famous

ones that, that, you know, the highest

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sellers in the country have got pages in

there where you've just shake your head,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.

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Shay: te teaching people about separation

anxiety by locking a dog in a room.

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And it's just

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh God.

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Shay: These

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's.

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Shay: be the good ones.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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That's nuts.

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Alright, well I'm glad you've

brought out a good one.

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We definitely recommending that more.

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Um, yeah, so you mentioned your new

puppy, so four weeks to, to moose

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arriving you on count, you on countdown.

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Shay: Yeah.

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Get getting updates pup updates virtually

every day from, from the breeders.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Shay: Very

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: So

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Shay: Uh.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: what

mind, um, if you don't mind me asking,

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what made you go for a new puppy?

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Just felt you, you were missing

having a puppy around or?

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Shay: as, as we're talking about

enrichment, um, the, probably the

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biggest reason is that, you know,

I, I like to have more than one dog.

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And I, I, my dogs, um, a few years

ago, both in the same year, both

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.

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Shay: different cancers.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.

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Shay: what, um, Mr.

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B, my Labrador died young.

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He was only nine years old, so that was

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

He's in this book.

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He's in this book, isn't he?

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Mr.

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BI saw that Barney.

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Shay: I think, yeah, that's

the one I dedicated to him.

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Um, and we had Daisy as well.

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It was a bit older.

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She was 14, but she had, uh, cancer

as well the same year later that

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

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Shay: six months later.

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So.

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Then I, I, I, I got my current

dog, uh, Monty, and I've just

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been waiting really for the right

time to bring in another one.

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And I just think the, the greatest

form of enrichment, if you can

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do it, it's not for everyone.

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I'm not saying that at all.

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If you can do it, it's for them

to have another canine companion.

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I, I think

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Shay: it's

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

how old's now?

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Shay: he's two and a half.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, so still a good agent

370

:

to have a little playmate.

371

:

Shay: yeah.

372

:

He, he, he will probably revert to

puppy hood a little bit, not that

373

:

he's ever completely got out of it.

374

:

Um,

375

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

376

:

Shay: it'll, it'll be fun.

377

:

Let's say,

378

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, I can't wait for all the updates.

379

:

I've already seen some cute little

pictures of, of moose, but I can't

380

:

wait until you, you bring him home?

381

:

Shay: oh, he is gorgeous

382

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, he does.

383

:

Is he the only one that's that

color out of the litter as well?

384

:

Shay: there.

385

:

There's two out of eight

386

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh wow.

387

:

Shay: other one's a girl.

388

:

So I,

389

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

390

:

Shay: de, I definitely know

which one's mine, so I'm sorted.

391

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

392

:

Wow.

393

:

Can't wait for moose and all the moose

related posts to, to come out from you.

394

:

So I look forward to that.

395

:

So we're gonna be moving on to

our next section, which is all

396

:

about what is enrichment and

what and why does it matter.

397

:

Um, people often think of enrichment

as just given their dog a puzzle

398

:

toy, but it's so much more than that.

399

:

Shay, how do you define enrichment please?

400

:

Shay: Yeah, and, and surprisingly

I'm not really into the puzzle toys

401

:

everyone expects that will be, but,

uh, I, I, I don't find dogs are that

402

:

good at solving complex puzzles.

403

:

I just,

404

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Mm mm Why make it hard?

405

:

Shay: ex Well exactly, that's the

other thing where people go wrong.

406

:

I think with enrichment they think it's

about making it hard rather than engaging.

407

:

So it's a, I think that's one of

the big mistakes that you see.

408

:

But for me, and I was only thinking about

this again recently with you to coming

409

:

back on here 'cause I think everyone

who asks me that question probably gets

410

:

a slightly different answer because

you change as it evolves and you know,

411

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

412

:

Shay: and, and all the rest of it.

413

:

So, and so now I like to say that

enrichment is giving back and that,

414

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Love that.

415

:

Shay: the reason it came in in zoos

and was needed back in, I dunno,

416

:

that the early eighties it started

to really get big ens zoos is

417

:

because it became o obvious that the

animals weren't faring very well.

418

:

Um, in such confinement.

419

:

'cause basically they're not able to

do the behaviours they would be doing.

420

:

They're not able to even do replacement

behaviours 'cause their, their

421

:

confinement is so small compared

422

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

423

:

Shay: know, living a world life.

424

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

425

:

Shay: so it's, it's really about, um,

giving back some of the opportunities

426

:

that are lost due to captivity.

427

:

And people don't often think of

dogs as being in captivity or

428

:

being, uh, captive animals, but

429

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

430

:

Shay: are, they're, they're confined to

our little lives in our little houses.

431

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

They are.

432

:

Shay: and, and so we have to give

opportunity for behaviour, you

433

:

know, that's gonna benefit them.

434

:

So that's what I think is about now is,

is just giving those opportunities back.

435

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

436

:

Shay: And,

437

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

love that.

438

:

Shay: you know, the, the, the thing

is that the animal was born to.

439

:

with their environment.

440

:

That's why they've got

such an advanced brain.

441

:

And, you know,

442

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

443

:

Shay: have got an advanced brain and

to make choices and to seek food and

444

:

to explore and to even to avoid danger.

445

:

But in, in our lives, all those things

are pretty much taken away from 'em.

446

:

They, you know, even avoiding

danger, which seems, say it like

447

:

that, seems daft, doesn't it?

448

:

But they

449

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

450

:

Shay: have that choice.

451

:

We've got 'em on a leash.

452

:

Uh, they, they've got, they've

got no choice where they live,

453

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's it.

454

:

Shay: so it is trying to some of

those, um, things back really, and,

455

:

and stimulate their mind and, and, and,

and help with their development and

456

:

just give them an active, um, mind.

457

:

You've

458

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

459

:

Shay: at the, the, the

problems with children.

460

:

Um, it's known about a bit

more now, but from years

461

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

462

:

Shay: to when I was young.

463

:

Really?

464

:

If, if you didn't, if they

didn't get the opportunities.

465

:

That people get now really with

interaction and development and

466

:

going to, uh, nursery schools.

467

:

Like they, I've got a little

granddaughter in nursery school now,

468

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Ah,

469

:

Shay: the things they do,

it's just, it's a joy.

470

:

They send photos over of all their

activities and I, and, but you just think

471

:

of that in a development term, how many

children they're interacting with and

472

:

how many things they're going to see.

473

:

And rather than maybe being stuck

at home until the age of four, if

474

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

475

:

Shay: stimulation in that home.

476

:

And,

477

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

478

:

Shay: and, and so, you know, it's not as

serious with a dog obviously, but it's the

479

:

same sort of principle and, you know, the

480

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

481

:

Shay: needs stimulation if

it's gonna develop well.

482

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It does.

483

:

Brilliant.

484

:

I love that.

485

:

And what I kind of get from that

is giving back, but it's almost

486

:

giving back their freedom, isn't it?

487

:

To a degree.

488

:

Shay: Yeah, absolutely.

489

:

And one, one of the

490

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

491

:

Shay: that I've sort of got

interested in a bit more, um, recently

492

:

is, um, is the idea of agency.

493

:

And, and when you look at that, it's

more than just being about choice.

494

:

It's agency is there for animals to

develop to, to, to build confidence,

495

:

to explore and, and feel, you know,

496

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

497

:

Shay: they build confidence by being

able to make choices because they can

498

:

investigate something, they can have

a little look or they can back off,

499

:

run away over way when they're free.

500

:

When in captivity you haven't got those

choices, so they don't feel as secure.

501

:

Um, most likely.

502

:

So we've, you know, we've got a job

to do in looking after 'em, I think

503

:

more than people think we have.

504

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely.

505

:

We are seeing that word agency branded

around a lot more now, aren't we?

506

:

Shay: Yeah, I, I, I think the thing took,

for me anyway, um, I wrote a piece last

507

:

year for operas the, uh, Skinner magazine

508

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right?

509

:

Shay: um, choice and stuff like that.

510

:

And that's what really

got me thinking about it.

511

:

And really, when you look at it,

it's, it's a big chunk of it is

512

:

about their ability to develop them

513

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

514

:

Shay: not, it's not just choice.

515

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

516

:

Brilliant.

517

:

Um, what happens Shay, when

a dog isn't getting enough

518

:

enrichment in their daily lives?

519

:

Shay: It's an interesting, um, topic.

520

:

I think that because, um, we, we think

of, um, behaviour problems all the

521

:

time because they're the things that

are causing us humans, uh, a problem.

522

:

But I often think of the ones that

go the other way, and there must be

523

:

loads of dogs like this that just

shut down and, and you know, they just

524

:

get used to doing nothing all day.

525

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm,

526

:

Shay: always gonna be obvious

in behaviour problems.

527

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

528

:

Shay: your dog will just be, I, I

would use the word depressed and,

529

:

you know, people might not like

that word for, for an animal, but

530

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

No, I know what you're saying.

531

:

Shay: I would describe it.

532

:

If they've got no joy in life and, you

know, nothing seems to matter to them, I

533

:

would describe that as, as, as depression.

534

:

So you've got, I, especially

when they're young, you've got

535

:

a lack of brain development.

536

:

Um, not just the ethics of it.

537

:

It's, you know, if you've got a dog that's

not developing properly or not stimulated

538

:

properly, you're gonna get other issues.

539

:

You, you can't expect to have everything

you want from the dog if their brain

540

:

isn't even developing properly.

541

:

you've got the behaviour

problems where dogs

542

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Excuse me.

543

:

Sorry.

544

:

Shay: and is making an appearance.

545

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

it's making me sneeze.

546

:

Shay: dogs will try and often try and,

um, fulfill their own lives by getting

547

:

into mischief and getting into bins

and, you know, chewing up the furniture.

548

:

And so you've got all that side of

it and then you've got the boredom

549

:

and, and, uh, going back to agency,

I think a lack of confidence because

550

:

there was not enough stimulation,

not enough development, not enough.

551

:

Letting the dog investigate

different things.

552

:

And, and, and overall you end

up with poor mental wellbeing.

553

:

I.

554

:

But, but it can be odd to, know,

put an exact figure on that because

555

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

556

:

Shay: who even sees it, you know, it's

557

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, that made me feel a bit sad.

558

:

Like if a dog's feeling

depressed, it's quite a, sorry,

559

:

state of affairs, isn't it?

560

:

If they're not getting Wow.

561

:

That enrichment, that, that, that, that,

562

:

Shay: but looking back, I've

seen lots of dogs in that state.

563

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

564

:

Shay: of dogs when I think about it

now, that don't that spark in their

565

:

relationship with their, uh, guardian

at all, because they've never learned

566

:

that their behaviour influences anything

because they, they've just, you know,

567

:

it's all exciting when they're a pup.

568

:

Sure.

569

:

But when a novelty wears off and it,

and it often does, they become a bit of

570

:

a, a burden to the, to the guardian and

they're just sort of forgotten about.

571

:

And we need to find ways of,

it's not just about the dog.

572

:

I always think people will always

say, oh, it's the dog's walk.

573

:

It's the dog's this, and, but.

574

:

The, the guardian needs

to find joy in it too.

575

:

So you need to find ways of enjoying

your dog as you're not gonna do it.

576

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, absolutely.

577

:

I guess that's where like the

different sports, like come in like,

578

:

you know, hoopers, agility, scent

work, doing stuff for your dog to

579

:

build on that bond and relationship.

580

:

Shay: Yeah, absolutely.

581

:

And when I started the enrichment start,

actually going right to back to the

582

:

beginning when I started the group, I was

thinking more along the lines of dogs that

583

:

are stuck at home, not dogs that are out

doing all these dog sports and all of it.

584

:

They don't need it so much, or they're

less likely to need it because they've

585

:

got a full active life with somebody who

takes them out and about and does stuff.

586

:

But

587

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

588

:

Um.

589

:

Shay: I always remember reading

a survey very long time ago, I'm

590

:

talking about over 30 years ago,

that the R-S-P-C-A did how many.

591

:

actually got walked every day.

592

:

Uh, it was, I can't remember the

figures, but it was staggeringly low

593

:

of dogs that never even left the house

or on a regular walk or, and that's

594

:

not to say that all dogs need a walk.

595

:

Um, 'cause some dogs, it's, it's

not the right thing for them.

596

:

It's too much for them or they've

597

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

598

:

Shay: but generally dogs should be going

out and about and being part of your life,

599

:

in my view, not, not locked up at home.

600

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

601

:

Agreed.

602

:

Shay: that's what I was more thinking

of when I started in Richmond.

603

:

It was for these dogs that

are often stuck at home.

604

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

605

:

Yeah.

606

:

Brilliant.

607

:

Um, are you able to break down

the different types of enrichment

608

:

and why they're all important?

609

:

I,

610

:

Shay: So for me, I made my own when

I was studying, um, in Richmond

611

:

and stuff like that at uni.

612

:

None of the, there's lots of different

ways that have been used to categorize

613

:

the different elements of enrichment.

614

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

615

:

Shay: none of them really, I.

616

:

I, I wasn't totally

comfortable with any of 'em.

617

:

It didn't make, uh, complete sense to me.

618

:

I, I don't think, audio is ever going

to, um, be a big thing in, in canine in

619

:

Richmond, although some people play the

music and, and that, but it's not, it's

620

:

not quite the same as old faction, you

know, so it doesn't even compare, does it?

621

:

So, so I,

622

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.

623

:

Shay: I did and that, that sort of formed,

um, what I did with the enrichment book.

624

:

Really, that's the way I broke

it down into different segments.

625

:

So I, um, and, and this one,

they all overlap a little bit,

626

:

the different, um, categories.

627

:

Um.

628

:

Um, but they do that, however you look at

it, however you look at enrichment, uh,

629

:

at whatever the category sort of thing is.

630

:

but one you never see

anywhere, which I have in mind.

631

:

And the first thing to

consider is actually safety.

632

:

And, and, you know, you think

how, how is safety enrichment?

633

:

But if the dog doesn't feel safe,

never gonna have an enriched life.

634

:

Safety comes before everything else.

635

:

You know, mammals need to find

a place of safety else, else.

636

:

That's their biggest concern.

637

:

Nothing else matters so much as safety.

638

:

Um, so, so you've always gotta look at,

you know, you want to be their place

639

:

of safety, uh, really, which is why

I'm so opposed to aversive training

640

:

and, and those sort of practices.

641

:

But the way I, the way I, uh, explain

it in, in, when I do talks on it.

642

:

Is that if you can imagine sitting

on a beach, if, if that's what

643

:

you like, it's not gonna work.

644

:

If you don't like that, um, reading

your nice, uh, your favorite book and

645

:

drinking your favorite drink, and it's

all lovely, peaceful, beautiful beach

646

:

with a, you know, beautiful clear sea.

647

:

Um, and then you take those exact

same things, that nice deck chair and

648

:

that nice book and that nice drink,

and you put them in the middle of

649

:

the M 25 on the central reservation,

um, you're, you're suddenly not gonna

650

:

find any of that enriching, are you?

651

:

It it's not possible because

you are bothered about your

652

:

safety, uh, rightly so.

653

:

So, um, enrichment isn't, these things

aren't enriching if you don't feel safe.

654

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

655

:

Shay: your dog a Kong

656

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I,

657

:

Shay: with fireworks

going off next to them.

658

:

it's, so safety is a big thing

for me, uh, in enrichment.

659

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

660

:

Shay: I go to food foraging,

which is a different category.

661

:

And, and that's a massive category.

662

:

and I must say when, when I

started enrichment, that's what

663

:

it, that's how I thought of really

as food, because it's so easy

664

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

665

:

Shay: dogs have to eat.

666

:

We all have to eat.

667

:

And in, in, in, in, if there wasn't

in captivity or any look at any other

668

:

animal, how much time they spend,

resources they put into getting enough

669

:

calories, you know, finding that

food, hunting, whatever it is, even

670

:

if it's grazing, they're spending

a lot of time doing that activity.

671

:

Um, and putting a lot of effort into it.

672

:

'cause it's what's gonna keep 'em alive.

673

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

674

:

Shay: and then for years and

years and years and years.

675

:

We've just put their food down

in front of them in a bowl.

676

:

And the two, I'm not saying you have

to just do one or the other, but

677

:

the, the contrast between the two

of those things is just so vast.

678

:

If you, I mean, I often feed

my dog in a bowl these days.

679

:

I didn't feed years.

680

:

Um, but if you're struggling for

things to find, to fulfill your

681

:

dog in an enrichment, enriching

way, that is the obvious go-to.

682

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

683

:

Shay: about making their

food difficult to, um, access

684

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

685

:

Shay: It's about engagement

and making it interesting.

686

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

687

:

Shay: them the opportunity to be

successful, not, not making it difficult.

688

:

Too many, too many people

do that, and they'll,

689

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

690

:

Shay: I, I wrap food up in a towel.

691

:

Um, I think I started

that craze off years ago.

692

:

Um, food up in a towel.

693

:

It is surprisingly not as easy as

you would think for a dog to us.

694

:

You just think, oh, it's just unroll it.

695

:

And you could teach a dog to just

unroll it properly and it'd be easy,

696

:

but if you don't do that, they're all

over the place with it and it all gets,

697

:

so it's not that it's not that easy.

698

:

Um, but then I see people only

recently on TikTok saying, oh no,

699

:

they've been doing it all wrong.

700

:

Doing that.

701

:

That's not difficult enough.

702

:

You've

703

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh God.

704

:

Shay: there and then you've

gotta tie the towel in a knot.

705

:

It's like, give the dog a chance.

706

:

It's just, it's just supposed

to be fun and engaging.

707

:

So, you know, so

708

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

don't want it to be frust.

709

:

You don't want it to

be frustrating, do you?

710

:

Like you say, it'll be fun.

711

:

Shay: So I always try and stress the

point now, you know, it's supposed

712

:

to be engaging, not difficult,

713

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

714

:

Shay: on.

715

:

Uh, I got another, uh, category, which

I call non-food activities, and, and

716

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

717

:

Shay: that came in

because too many people.

718

:

Um, concentrated on the food and, and,

and you don't want your relationship

719

:

with your dog to be all about food

because life isn't all about food.

720

:

And, and you can make the

dog obsessive over food.

721

:

Not like you need much

help when you're a Labrador

722

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

723

:

Shay: am,

724

:

So you've got non-food activity

and, and that can just be, um, like

725

:

playing with toys, like flirt poles

and, and stuff like that, which

726

:

don't have to involve food at all.

727

:

The dog is just enjoying

it for enjoyment itself.

728

:

'cause it finds it fun.

729

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

730

:

Shay: um, natural behaviours

I think is a real big one.

731

:

That's another category.

732

:

So there's five altogether categories,

um, natural behaviours, and ju these

733

:

are just ways of thinking about it.

734

:

You know, they're not all totally

separate, but it, it, but it makes you

735

:

think about what your dog might need.

736

:

And the most, the most obvious

for, for dogs is, is, um,

737

:

scenting, uh, being able to sniff,

738

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

739

:

Shay: doing, doing olfactory

games and, and stuff like that.

740

:

They just, couldn't recommend it enough.

741

:

You know, if you only did one thing with

your dog, it would be to, to eng engage.

742

:

Let them engage in

olfaction of, of some sort.

743

:

Do do something because That's

sort of what they was born to do.

744

:

That, uh, and it's been found in, you

know, studies that it increases optimism,

745

:

which is a great way, way of showing that

it's increasing their mental wellbeing.

746

:

Uh, 'cause

747

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

748

:

Shay: is, is strongly

linked to, to wellbeing.

749

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

750

:

Shay: So it's just a,

it's a no brainer, really.

751

:

And then the

752

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

753

:

Shay: is, uh, companionship

and bonding, um, which brings

754

:

us on to getting another dog.

755

:

And, you know, it doesn't always

have to be with another dog because

756

:

dogs bond with humans extremely well.

757

:

Um, so dogs can live quite

happily on their own.

758

:

Um, but they need that, that, that

figure in their lives, even if it's

759

:

a human, um, to really bond with them

and you to be their attachment figure.

760

:

And just like in, in children who,

who have an attachment figure, usually

761

:

their mother, you know, it can be their

father as well as just have to be one.

762

:

But, but usually, especially when

they're small, them, your mother is

763

:

your strongest attachment figure and.

764

:

The thing I always think with dogs,

the interesting thing is that I think

765

:

we've bred them over the years and

developed them to stay quite infantile.

766

:

I don't, many dogs don't really grow up.

767

:

I might, I might be bringing in

my influence with Labradors again

768

:

here, but you know, they just like

humans, they play into adulthood.

769

:

Um, a lot of animals don't because

they're more interested in having to

770

:

get enough food and stuff like that.

771

:

But we've done that.

772

:

We've bred, um, infantile

features on the face and, and

773

:

that all has a knock on effect.

774

:

So, and don't grow up to be independent.

775

:

They grow up, you know, they're

with us their own lives.

776

:

And so I think they do have quite

a lot of, uh, um, childishness

777

:

about them, if you like.

778

:

Um, a lot of dogs do at, at least.

779

:

And so probably that attachment

figure and that bonding is even more

780

:

important because it could be like,

it's a, a, a, a parent child type.

781

:

Type relationship.

782

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

783

:

Shay: And that's, so that's

how I sort of look at it.

784

:

And that's why I think the, the

companionship is so important,

785

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

definitely.

786

:

Shay: bond, you know, for them

787

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

788

:

Shay: of safety and trust and,

and to be able to enjoy life.

789

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

790

:

Okay.

791

:

Can I just summarize those

and repeat them back to you?

792

:

So Shay's, different types of enrichment.

793

:

There were five, we had safety at

number one, then food foraging.

794

:

Was that right?

795

:

I dunno if I caught the end of yet.

796

:

Food foraging.

797

:

Shay: have, they don't necessarily have

to be in that ho order that's just, you

798

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that's

just that, that's just your fight.

799

:

And then we got non-food

activities, natural behaviours,

800

:

and companionship and bonding.

801

:

Shay: Yeah.

802

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Lovely.

803

:

Right.

804

:

So our next, um, section is all

about enrichment for different

805

:

dogs and tailoring activities

to suit their individual needs.

806

:

How does a dog's breed history

and personality influence the type

807

:

of enrichment that they may need?

808

:

Shay?

809

:

Shay: I don't tend to look at

as much as you might think or

810

:

as much as other people do.

811

:

I'm not saying there's nothing in that.

812

:

'cause there is, you know, my

Labrador of, of loved water.

813

:

Um,

814

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Food and water.

815

:

Shay: but my first Labrador certainly

never swam 'cause he never went in

816

:

water deeper than he could paddle.

817

:

But he loved to splash

about in water, but he

818

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Uh.

819

:

Shay: enough to to, to take the plunge.

820

:

Uh,

821

:

and, and you absolutely have to

look at the individual, um, because

822

:

there's more, I think, more difference

between individuals of the same

823

:

breed than there is between breeds.

824

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

825

:

Shay: so I always think that's a, a.

826

:

I, I think it's good to consider what

your dog was bred to do, like, um, border

827

:

Collies and you know, you just watch 'em.

828

:

There's, there's five or six that

walk where I walk every morning,

829

:

go around in a group together, and

you just watch their behaviour.

830

:

And it is different to, to most dogs'

behaviour the way, the way they stalk

831

:

and run around and circle background

and, you know, so there's a lot in,

832

:

in genetics, but it's still massively

important to look at your individual dog

833

:

and, and learn what their preferences are.

834

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

835

:

Shay: I, I did some research when I was at

university on, on, it was on old faction.

836

:

And the difference between breeds and

837

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

838

:

Shay: expect to see is stronger old

faction ability, olfactory ability

839

:

in the breeds that have been bred.

840

:

detection.

841

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

842

:

Shay: Which was generally the case, but

one of the dogs that scored in the test

843

:

I was doing high as any other dog in the

whole thing, um, including caucus spaniels

844

:

and dogs like that was a greyhound.

845

:

Um, was able to detect and indicate

on, on the scent that a caucus

846

:

span, you know, at, at the same Um,

847

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

848

:

Shay: like that are quite surprise

surprised me, you know, you know, I

849

:

was already ready to write up that

they were useless at it and, and,

850

:

um, you know, I was expecting them

not to be that interested, um, back

851

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

852

:

Shay: So it's very, very surprising

that a dog, which was bred

853

:

to, to be a sight hound and to

chase what it could see, could.

854

:

Pick up the detection, you know,

the, the olfactory ability of dogs,

855

:

wherever the breed is absolutely

phenomenal, even with a brachycephalic

856

:

and, and you've got deformities inside

and, and all the rest of it, which

857

:

I've, you know, written up about.

858

:

still absolutely phenomenal and it, and

it still means a, a hell of a lot to them.

859

:

So you've got, you've absolutely gotta

look at the individuals, um, for that

860

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, yeah.

861

:

All about working with the dog

that's in front of you basically,

862

:

Shay: Yeah, absolutely.

863

:

And

864

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

865

:

Shay: as they age, it's, I, there's

nothing they can't do really.

866

:

It's, I, well, I think it's just

too easy to say, oh no, they're

867

:

old, they don't need to do anything.

868

:

And it,

869

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

870

:

Shay: it's, it's about just making

things a little bit simpler,

871

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

872

:

Shay: if you've got a, a,

a really old dog, you might

873

:

not wrap food up in a towel.

874

:

You might just put a soft toy

over it and they've just got

875

:

nudge off or pour it off, or,

876

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

877

:

Shay: an.

878

:

and again, you can, you can see

I've got a passion for olfaction.

879

:

'cause again, coming back to the,

the olfactory system, the Doug's

880

:

sense of smell is that the, the,

881

:

the receptors in the olfactory, um, at the

back of the nose in the, in the olfactory

882

:

recess actually reproduce, uh, themselves

every about eight weeks I think it is.

883

:

So you might think you've got a

14-year-old dog, but the scent

884

:

receptors are, are, are, are

pretty new and active and, and

885

:

brilliant still, even at that age.

886

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

887

:

Um, I think that brings us onto our next

question about senior dogs, but what

888

:

I was gonna say is that dogs may lose

their sight or their hearing, but they're

889

:

never gonna lose their sense of smile.

890

:

It's their strongest sense, isn't it

891

:

Shay: Now it's very unlikely you

do have some dogs with, with, um,

892

:

I forget what they call it now,

a nod smear, something like that.

893

:

Uh, which basically, um, the

loss of a, the sense of smell,

894

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: really?

895

:

I never knew that.

896

:

Shay: yeah, yeah.

897

:

Uh, just like you can

get in humans so you, you

898

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh yeah,

899

:

Shay: but it's, uh, I

think it's quite rare and,

900

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: right.

901

:

Shay: looking at introducing, you

know, other things instead, obviously.

902

:

Um,

903

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

904

:

Shay: but it's, it's, yeah,

very, very important to him.

905

:

I, I think more so than anything

else, other than safety really.

906

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

907

:

Brilliant.

908

:

So for those senior dogs or those that

may have some mobility issues, are

909

:

there any lower impact enrichment ideas

that we can tell our listeners about?

910

:

Shay: yeah, it doesn't, um, you.

911

:

I, I'm not sure that age, but, but

like dogs who've done, um, agility

912

:

and that sort of thing, you now have

the, the, I I'm saying new sports,

913

:

but it's been around for a while now.

914

:

You've got things like hoopers, which

is a lot less stress on joints and stuff

915

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

916

:

Shay: yeah.

917

:

So you can still get out and do stuff.

918

:

And, and the scent thing is, you

know, no dog's ever gonna get

919

:

bored with, um, sniffing around.

920

:

Uh, that can make such a big difference.

921

:

That's got nothing to do with age.

922

:

You don't have to walk very far.

923

:

You can even bring scents into the house

in, in, you know, I've seen people, um,

924

:

bring in leaves in, in, in autumn, and for

925

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

926

:

Shay: to smell who can't

927

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

928

:

Shay: anymore.

929

:

I think that the thing to remember there

is the, is the safety side of it or the,

930

:

it maybe not safety, but the dog feeling

safe in that if you've got an anxious

931

:

dog, they might not like the smell of

other dogs in their, in their house.

932

:

So you've gotta be a little bit

careful with, with the s sense

933

:

that you're, you're bringing in.

934

:

But, and I add.

935

:

I had a 14-year-old,

uh, west Island Terrier.

936

:

Um, and she was still learning new tricks.

937

:

Um, I had to do a project for university

where they, I had to teach something that,

938

:

that the dog had never learned before.

939

:

I had, um, I had to do something with that

I'd never done and a totally new thing.

940

:

And so it is like impossible to think

of anything with the Labrador I was

941

:

training 'cause we'd just done everything.

942

:

So I had to use Daisy for, for,

for, for this, um, shaping exercise.

943

:

Uh, so she was still

learning stuff at that age.

944

:

So, you know, the brain, you, you've

gotta go off the individual, like I

945

:

say, um, you, there's, there's so much.

946

:

You can do to make life easier.

947

:

You know, if, if the dog's going

on the sofa, you can get a little

948

:

stool for 'em to step up onto it.

949

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

950

:

Shay: you know, they, they still

wanna lay on the sofa next year, but

951

:

getting off can be quite, you know,

induce quite a lot of anxiety for 'em

952

:

because they know it might be painful.

953

:

And, and then I think you can get

behaviour problems coming in, in, in,

954

:

you know, uh, peeing indoors and stuff

like that just because it's such an

955

:

effort for 'em to, to do otherwise.

956

:

So we've gotta, we've just gotta

tailor things really and, and simplify

957

:

them, um, and just make them a bit

easier for the dog so, you know, they

958

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

959

:

Shay: cope and still enjoy life.

960

:

I think the thing to think really

is, is just not to give up on them.

961

:

It should be for, for the years

of joy they've given us, too

962

:

many people see their old dog as

just a bit of a pain really now.

963

:

'cause

964

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

965

:

Shay: they don't get their

joy out of him or whatever.

966

:

And, and really it's a privilege to

be able to look after 'em in their,

967

:

in their later years, I think.

968

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

969

:

They're not with us long, so Yeah.

970

:

I'd hate, I'd hate that.

971

:

Shay: And like even things

like, uh, just come to mind.

972

:

It's like, um, you, you get the

fabric food forages, um, that was

973

:

introduced a couple of years ago.

974

:

So if the dog doesn't like, you

know, the noise of things that

975

:

clatter around and all these are all

nice and quiet and, and soft things

976

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

977

:

Shay: a snuffle mat, things like that,

they could still, you know, there's

978

:

nothing difficult about a snuffle mat.

979

:

Most, they actually was over exaggerated

in how good they were, because most

980

:

dogs find them ridiculously easy.

981

:

But you can imagine a dog, an older

dog who's not getting out much.

982

:

That snuffle mat could be a brilliant,

brilliant for them to be finding little

983

:

bits of food in and foraging around in.

984

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely.

985

:

Um, so many guardians of nervous

or anxious dogs, um, that struggle

986

:

with traditional activities.

987

:

How can enrichment help

these dogs feel more secure?

988

:

Shay,

989

:

Shay: Well, I think it comes in, and

again, I never used to, this is new

990

:

for me, really over recent years.

991

:

'cause I, I, I never

992

:

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.

993

:

Shay: in, in Richmond as, as a,

a problem behaviour solver if,

994

:

you know, I mean, I was just

thinking of it as beating boredom.

995

:

But, you know, it's developed over

the years and so now I think that

996

:

enrichment can be done at home.

997

:

So you've got anxious dogs or whatever,

much that you can do at home with the

998

:

dog that they're then not experiencing

that anxiety outside and it allows them

999

:

to build confidence and an opportunity

to be successful just like food foraging

:

00:43:50,521 --> 00:43:52,531

in the garden and, and stuff like that.

:

00:43:53,191 --> 00:43:54,991

Uh, and through that.

:

00:43:55,021 --> 00:44:01,171

Uh, activity, they gain confidence,

you know, you a sense search, um,

:

00:44:01,171 --> 00:44:04,561

a find it game or you know, they're

going off to, to find something

:

00:44:04,561 --> 00:44:05,671

you've hidden in the garden.

:

00:44:06,331 --> 00:44:10,651

I think, you know, allows them to build

confidence because, you know, they're,

:

00:44:10,651 --> 00:44:12,181

they're acting under their own steam.

:

00:44:12,181 --> 00:44:12,811

You are not.

:

00:44:13,681 --> 00:44:14,671

do this, do that.

:

00:44:14,671 --> 00:44:17,311

It's, you know, it is for

them to enjoy if they want to.

:

00:44:18,091 --> 00:44:21,661

Uh, so it gives them confidence

and it also gives them a focus.

:

00:44:21,661 --> 00:44:24,781

And they, they've got something,

you know, more constructive

:

00:44:24,781 --> 00:44:26,431

and, and more useful to do.

:

00:44:27,091 --> 00:44:30,631

And it allows us to work

with the dog without any real

:

00:44:30,631 --> 00:44:32,221

expectation being put on them.

:

00:44:32,371 --> 00:44:32,911

'cause if they've got

:

00:44:33,065 --> 00:44:33,355

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:44:33,391 --> 00:44:35,941

Shay: they've got anxiety, they've

got fears, they've got, you know,

:

00:44:36,331 --> 00:44:39,841

that's why I think enrichment is

brilliant in, in that area because

:

00:44:39,841 --> 00:44:41,881

we are not piling on more pressure.

:

00:44:41,911 --> 00:44:46,021

Nobody, probably very few people,

they're doing it wrong if they do.

:

00:44:46,021 --> 00:44:50,431

But most people aren't doing

enrichment activities with any great

:

00:44:50,431 --> 00:44:54,331

expectation of what the outcome's

got to be like, like you would with

:

00:44:54,331 --> 00:44:57,841

obedience or, you know, making the

dog sit and stay for 10 minutes.

:

00:44:57,841 --> 00:45:01,571

So there's a lot of pressure on dogs when

we are teach you those sort of behaviours

:

00:45:01,951 --> 00:45:04,471

that you just don't get in enrichment.

:

00:45:04,651 --> 00:45:05,131

It's not

:

00:45:05,195 --> 00:45:05,485

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:45:06,151 --> 00:45:08,761

Shay: how good you are, how

good the dog is, how you know,

:

00:45:08,945 --> 00:45:09,165

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No.

:

00:45:10,051 --> 00:45:11,551

Shay: it's about, you know.

:

00:45:12,361 --> 00:45:14,551

Engagement with, with, with the world.

:

00:45:14,945 --> 00:45:15,235

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:45:15,511 --> 00:45:21,931

Shay: I think it can, um, just help

take the pressure off all that and give

:

00:45:22,065 --> 00:45:22,545

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:45:23,101 --> 00:45:23,821

Shay: else to do.

:

00:45:23,881 --> 00:45:25,951

And you can use it out and

about, you know, you can,

:

00:45:27,961 --> 00:45:31,711

I'm a little bit torn to

say it and I'll explain why.

:

00:45:31,771 --> 00:45:35,941

So you can do these activities when

you're out and about to prevent, um,

:

00:45:35,941 --> 00:45:41,461

the dog misbehaving, whatever, being

reactive, running off somewhere else,

:

00:45:41,461 --> 00:45:44,431

paying attention to something else you

don't want 'em to play with by playing

:

00:45:44,431 --> 00:45:46,411

enrichment games, doing a scent game.

:

00:45:46,831 --> 00:45:51,691

But really, I, I think that

brings it into a little bit,

:

00:45:52,741 --> 00:45:55,621

rather than it being enrichment.

:

00:45:56,295 --> 00:45:56,415

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

:

00:45:56,671 --> 00:45:58,441

Shay: so you, you end

up with a bit of a mix.

:

00:45:58,441 --> 00:45:59,971

I don't call that enrichment.

:

00:45:59,971 --> 00:46:03,331

You are not doing that for

the dog's sake to increase.

:

00:46:03,706 --> 00:46:06,526

Their, their, their

level of en engagement.

:

00:46:06,526 --> 00:46:11,146

You are doing it, um, to, to try and

avoid something else, which I'm not saying

:

00:46:11,146 --> 00:46:15,101

that's not useful, but I don't consider

it to be purely enrichment either.

:

00:46:15,990 --> 00:46:17,910

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, totally understand that.

:

00:46:17,970 --> 00:46:18,149

Yeah.

:

00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:18,660

Brilliant.

:

00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:19,560

Thank you.

:

00:46:19,620 --> 00:46:22,350

We are gonna be moving on to

our next section, which is

:

00:46:22,350 --> 00:46:27,419

all about easy budget friendly

enrichment ideas for everyday life.

:

00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:31,740

Um, one of the biggest misconceptions

is that enrichment has to be

:

00:46:31,740 --> 00:46:33,990

ex, uh, has to be expensive.

:

00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:39,029

Um, but can you share any simple

low cost ideas that guardians,

:

00:46:39,089 --> 00:46:40,470

guardians could try at home?

:

00:46:41,176 --> 00:46:41,476

Shay: Yeah.

:

00:46:41,476 --> 00:46:43,006

And that is absolutely right.

:

00:46:43,066 --> 00:46:46,036

Um, I, I do remember one of the

problems when I first started

:

00:46:46,036 --> 00:46:49,486

the enrichment group is people

complaining about that's very thing.

:

00:46:49,984 --> 00:46:50,335

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right?

:

00:46:50,416 --> 00:46:55,546

Shay: of the, some of the

enrichment, um, toys are so expensive

:

00:46:55,964 --> 00:46:56,254

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:46:56,296 --> 00:46:59,566

Shay: they're not suitable for all people,

or they don't use them in the, in the

:

00:46:59,566 --> 00:47:04,456

right way, or they leave the dog, um,

not supervised and it gets destroyed.

:

00:47:04,456 --> 00:47:08,266

And, you know, some, some of these

toys are like 40, 50, 60 pound easily.

:

00:47:08,865 --> 00:47:09,255

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:47:09,856 --> 00:47:17,026

Shay: So it's not always cheap, but always

say that you don't need buy any of those

:

00:47:17,026 --> 00:47:21,856

things to give your dog an enriched,

you know, an enriching experience.

:

00:47:22,424 --> 00:47:22,875

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:47:23,916 --> 00:47:29,431

Shay: Some of the things I've done at home

is things like, um, toilet rule tubes.

:

00:47:29,805 --> 00:47:30,345

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:47:30,511 --> 00:47:32,341

Shay: that craze off

many years ago as well.

:

00:47:32,341 --> 00:47:36,241

Saving them all up, um, putting a

little treat in them, folding the ends

:

00:47:36,241 --> 00:47:42,511

over and then I, you can just give it

to the dog like that, but I saved all

:

00:47:42,511 --> 00:47:46,741

mine up and I had, I had hundreds, I've

got a video of it somewhere, and then

:

00:47:46,741 --> 00:47:50,641

I would just put a treat in about five

of them out of, you know, a couple of

:

00:47:50,641 --> 00:47:56,221

hundred, and then I'd tip 'em all out

on the floor and the dog would search

:

00:47:56,221 --> 00:47:57,631

to see which one had the food in.

:

00:47:57,901 --> 00:48:01,321

Then, then they're not ripping 'em all

open because dogs out aren't that silly.

:

00:48:01,531 --> 00:48:05,221

They're smelling which one's got the

food in and then opening just that one.

:

00:48:05,341 --> 00:48:06,871

So you wouldn't start at that level.

:

00:48:06,871 --> 00:48:11,071

You'd start at just having one with

food in and then having one with food

:

00:48:11,071 --> 00:48:13,861

in and one without, and the dog, you

know, finds which one's got the food

:

00:48:13,861 --> 00:48:15,241

in and you just build up to that.

:

00:48:15,525 --> 00:48:16,485

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

such a good idea?

:

00:48:16,861 --> 00:48:17,851

Shay: it's totally free.

:

00:48:17,851 --> 00:48:19,201

It's stuff you would throw away.

:

00:48:20,295 --> 00:48:23,625

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

like cardboard boxes and packaging.

:

00:48:23,625 --> 00:48:23,955

Yeah.

:

00:48:23,955 --> 00:48:23,956

The,

:

00:48:24,646 --> 00:48:26,206

Shay: boxes is the obvious one.

:

00:48:26,266 --> 00:48:28,336

Uh, cereal packaging, stuff like that.

:

00:48:28,336 --> 00:48:32,146

You've just sort of gotta be

careful, especially with these

:

00:48:32,506 --> 00:48:35,296

big boxes that you're gonna get

off Amazon and big deliveries.

:

00:48:35,326 --> 00:48:40,486

'cause sometimes they've got staples in

them and, excuse me, my voice is going.

:

00:48:40,906 --> 00:48:44,596

And, um, so, and you've gotta be

careful of the glues that are used.

:

00:48:44,596 --> 00:48:48,106

And so you don't want dogs sitting

there chewing the cardboard.

:

00:48:48,106 --> 00:48:51,976

I think it's fine to, to rip it and

tear it and find what's inside it, but I

:

00:48:51,976 --> 00:48:53,836

would not use it if they're chewing it.

:

00:48:53,836 --> 00:48:56,356

I don't want the glues in their

mouth and stuff like that.

:

00:48:56,776 --> 00:49:02,236

Um, one of the things I do a lot is,

is just, um, getting a piece of food

:

00:49:02,236 --> 00:49:05,776

and flicking it across the floor and

it's, you know, it's as simple as that.

:

00:49:05,776 --> 00:49:09,736

And that has, in behaviour

work that has worked.

:

00:49:10,471 --> 00:49:14,461

Quite well in for dogs that

people have told me won't eat.

:

00:49:15,271 --> 00:49:18,181

as soon as you make that food come

alive and just flick it across the

:

00:49:18,181 --> 00:49:22,051

floor one piece at a time, suddenly

it's engaging for the dog and, and,

:

00:49:22,051 --> 00:49:26,611

and can help them, um, you know, get

their appetite to chase it and eat it.

:

00:49:27,515 --> 00:49:27,805

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:49:27,991 --> 00:49:28,291

Shay: Um,

:

00:49:28,484 --> 00:49:28,685

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that.

:

00:49:29,131 --> 00:49:33,001

Shay: the treasure hunt, again, it's just

things you're gonna feed them anyway.

:

00:49:33,301 --> 00:49:37,201

You, um, you can hide it around the house.

:

00:49:37,381 --> 00:49:38,791

Again, it's so simple.

:

00:49:39,541 --> 00:49:45,211

Uh, most dogs don't need much teaching

with this, but you would just put it

:

00:49:45,211 --> 00:49:47,491

down, let 'em see where you're putting

it, and they're gonna go and get it.

:

00:49:47,491 --> 00:49:49,741

And then you slowly increase that to, to

:

00:49:49,845 --> 00:49:50,235

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:49:50,611 --> 00:49:54,511

Shay: or more things and, and, and,

and putting it further out of sight.

:

00:49:54,511 --> 00:49:57,301

And then putting the dog in another room

and hiding them all and getting them

:

00:49:57,301 --> 00:50:02,251

to come in and, and searching for maybe

five or six little pots with food in it.

:

00:50:02,701 --> 00:50:03,586

And then with that game.

:

00:50:05,251 --> 00:50:09,001

I always have a, have a sort of a

finished queue so they know they've found

:

00:50:09,001 --> 00:50:11,251

them all, otherwise they're searching

around and there's nothing less.

:

00:50:11,251 --> 00:50:14,161

So, so I might have a treat

in my hand and say, all done.

:

00:50:14,161 --> 00:50:15,541

When they're all found and, and

:

00:50:15,885 --> 00:50:16,335

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:50:16,381 --> 00:50:17,071

Shay: something like that.

:

00:50:17,521 --> 00:50:20,941

Um, a handful of food

dropped in their toy box.

:

00:50:20,971 --> 00:50:25,231

You know, they've gotta find all these

bits of food in the bottom of a, a toy box

:

00:50:25,231 --> 00:50:27,031

that you might think the dog never uses.

:

00:50:27,031 --> 00:50:29,281

So it brings the toy box

back to life as well.

:

00:50:29,830 --> 00:50:30,120

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:50:30,271 --> 00:50:36,391

Shay: short training sessions or play

sessions, um, while the kettle boils, why

:

00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:36,960

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: is more.

:

00:50:37,171 --> 00:50:38,161

Shay: for the kettle to boil

:

00:50:38,165 --> 00:50:38,455

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:50:38,491 --> 00:50:40,801

Shay: can just have a little

interaction with the dog.

:

00:50:41,221 --> 00:50:46,111

I do a thing where I've got three buckets

and I put 'em all together and then I just

:

00:50:46,111 --> 00:50:49,741

throw treats across the room or the garden

into the bucket, and then the dog has to

:

00:50:49,741 --> 00:50:52,111

go and work out which, um, bucket it's in.

:

00:50:52,351 --> 00:50:55,801

So it's, it's very, very easy and

most of my enrichment is easy, but

:

00:50:55,801 --> 00:50:57,451

it's about engagement, you know.

:

00:50:57,625 --> 00:50:57,915

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:50:57,931 --> 00:50:58,471

Shay: Um.

:

00:50:59,065 --> 00:50:59,355

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:50:59,506 --> 00:51:00,256

Shay: bottles.

:

00:51:00,376 --> 00:51:01,096

What, what?

:

00:51:01,126 --> 00:51:02,926

Dog doesn't love a plastic bottle.

:

00:51:03,286 --> 00:51:05,656

Um, they just totally free.

:

00:51:05,656 --> 00:51:07,396

You're gonna throw it

in the recycling later.

:

00:51:07,636 --> 00:51:10,306

They love squashing a plastic bottle up.

:

00:51:10,726 --> 00:51:12,766

Um, and plant pots.

:

00:51:12,796 --> 00:51:16,666

I've never known a dog that

doesn't adore an empty plant pot.

:

00:51:16,666 --> 00:51:20,116

If you, if you're doing planting in a

garden, I dunno what it is about 'em,

:

00:51:20,176 --> 00:51:25,486

they just absolutely love the way they,

the, the noise they make or, or whatever.

:

00:51:25,876 --> 00:51:30,916

Um, plastic, like beak, beaker

cups stack in, in, on top of each

:

00:51:30,916 --> 00:51:32,356

other with food in between them.

:

00:51:32,416 --> 00:51:35,746

You know, you put a treat in the cup

and then put another beaker on top,

:

00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:36,569

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

:

00:51:36,646 --> 00:51:40,426

Shay: towels, which we've already

covered, covered, um, sniffing, even

:

00:51:40,426 --> 00:51:42,076

sniffing the shopping when it comes in.

:

00:51:42,376 --> 00:51:44,506

So I, I, I love that now.

:

00:51:44,566 --> 00:51:48,286

Uh, other, the dog sniffs around

all the shopping bags years ago.

:

00:51:48,706 --> 00:51:50,416

We'd have been telling

the dog off for that.

:

00:51:50,734 --> 00:51:51,025

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

:

00:51:51,106 --> 00:51:54,736

Shay: think how things have changed

and it just makes me smile that, you

:

00:51:54,736 --> 00:51:57,706

know, I quite like the dog getting

in my way now and, and trying to

:

00:51:57,990 --> 00:51:59,310

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Sniffing in the bags.

:

00:51:59,326 --> 00:51:59,566

Shay: yeah,

:

00:51:59,850 --> 00:52:00,509

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I love that.

:

00:52:00,646 --> 00:52:05,506

Shay: if they nix stuff and run off,

but if they can resist that temptation,

:

00:52:06,256 --> 00:52:08,836

it's just involving the dog more really.

:

00:52:08,836 --> 00:52:12,046

And, and like I said, it doesn't

have to cost anything at all.

:

00:52:12,475 --> 00:52:12,765

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:52:12,990 --> 00:52:13,410

Just.

:

00:52:13,456 --> 00:52:16,336

Shay: I do buy a lot of enrichment

stuff, or I have over the years.

:

00:52:16,336 --> 00:52:17,326

I don't so much now.

:

00:52:17,506 --> 00:52:21,646

But you don't have to, you can,

you can have, not about that.

:

00:52:22,695 --> 00:52:24,735

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Just,

um, sounds like just about using your

:

00:52:24,735 --> 00:52:29,205

imagination and just, you know, having fun

with it and just, it doesn't have to cost

:

00:52:29,205 --> 00:52:32,355

a lot, just things that you've got around

the home that you'd maybe throw away.

:

00:52:32,686 --> 00:52:32,986

Shay: yeah.

:

00:52:32,986 --> 00:52:35,446

Everything before you throw it

in the recycling is, is just

:

00:52:35,446 --> 00:52:37,246

to think, oh, could I use this?

:

00:52:37,306 --> 00:52:40,216

Could, could this, you know, anything

anyone's throwing away, I always

:

00:52:40,216 --> 00:52:44,296

think, could I use this before it gets

thrown away to, even if it's just to

:

00:52:44,296 --> 00:52:46,036

hide something in for the dog to find.

:

00:52:46,485 --> 00:52:47,300

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, definitely.

:

00:52:47,731 --> 00:52:48,061

Shay: is.

:

00:52:48,825 --> 00:52:50,805

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

scent work is one of the best

:

00:52:50,805 --> 00:52:52,420

ways to engage a dog's brain.

:

00:52:52,470 --> 00:52:53,985

We've spoken a bit about it.

:

00:52:54,255 --> 00:52:59,775

Are there any, um, easy scent based games

that don't require special equipment,

:

00:52:59,775 --> 00:53:03,195

so you could just do some scatter

feeding and find it and stuff like that?

:

00:53:03,931 --> 00:53:04,831

Shay: Yeah, absolutely.

:

00:53:04,831 --> 00:53:06,511

And again, I have to come back to.

:

00:53:07,621 --> 00:53:10,231

You know, even if you do nothing

else, let your dog stop and

:

00:53:10,231 --> 00:53:12,511

sniff because that's undervalued.

:

00:53:13,291 --> 00:53:16,051

know, it's, that's what

dogs need to do, you know.

:

00:53:16,531 --> 00:53:21,241

But the, the, the main scent things

that I do is either a food search

:

00:53:21,421 --> 00:53:22,771

and I call 'em different for things.

:

00:53:22,771 --> 00:53:25,711

So the dog knows if they're looking

for food or looking for a scent.

:

00:53:26,191 --> 00:53:30,601

So I'll do, I actually say to the dog,

uh, food search from doing this, but

:

00:53:30,601 --> 00:53:32,281

this is just hiding a piece of food.

:

00:53:33,031 --> 00:53:37,771

it, and it starts with letting the dog

see where you're putting it, and then

:

00:53:37,771 --> 00:53:40,681

you might just place it behind a box

so they can't see it, but they've seen

:

00:53:40,681 --> 00:53:42,451

where you put it and you build that up.

:

00:53:42,721 --> 00:53:44,552

You know, the dog's not silly.

:

00:53:44,881 --> 00:53:47,341

They, they, they learn

that really, really quick.

:

00:53:47,491 --> 00:53:52,021

And all you'll do is af as they, as

they go off to find it, you say food

:

00:53:52,021 --> 00:53:53,551

search and they know the game's on.

:

00:53:53,701 --> 00:53:56,371

And then you'll be able to do it

with them in a different room, put it

:

00:53:56,371 --> 00:53:57,961

wherever you like, or in the garden.

:

00:53:58,171 --> 00:54:00,961

And as soon as you say food search,

that's what they're looking for.

:

00:54:00,961 --> 00:54:02,371

Some food that they're allowed to have.

:

00:54:02,851 --> 00:54:05,071

Um, so, so that's a really good one.

:

00:54:05,071 --> 00:54:06,961

And then I do it without food as well.

:

00:54:07,396 --> 00:54:12,286

Um, and that for me, that involves using

catnip 'cause that's the scent I use.

:

00:54:13,051 --> 00:54:14,371

it is, it's really cheap.

:

00:54:14,371 --> 00:54:18,841

You can get some dried catnip, uh, online

and I just put that in a, like a plastic

:

00:54:18,841 --> 00:54:23,426

container with a lid on it and whatever

item I'm using, it might be like a, a

:

00:54:23,431 --> 00:54:25,051

stuffed mouse or something like that.

:

00:54:25,171 --> 00:54:28,171

I'll put that in the container

so it takes on the smell.

:

00:54:28,531 --> 00:54:31,951

I also do this with a 10 pound note, so

they go off and find the 10 pound note.

:

00:54:32,371 --> 00:54:36,481

But, but then you can do, you don't wanna

start with something like a 10 pound note.

:

00:54:36,481 --> 00:54:38,941

You wanna teach 'em the game

first with something they like

:

00:54:39,001 --> 00:54:40,501

picking up and, and chasing.

:

00:54:40,501 --> 00:54:44,431

And, and so you get the toy,

just throw it for 'em, like, you

:

00:54:44,431 --> 00:54:45,331

know, you're playing with it.

:

00:54:45,511 --> 00:54:49,981

And that slowly turns into a, a search

'cause then you'll throw it behind

:

00:54:49,981 --> 00:54:52,801

something or you'll hide it behind

something, or you'll put a box on top of

:

00:54:52,801 --> 00:54:55,711

it and, and, and you say, um, find it.

:

00:54:55,846 --> 00:54:57,181

And, and they go off to get it.

:

00:54:57,331 --> 00:55:00,451

And then you just build it up slowly

so they don't see where you've

:

00:55:00,451 --> 00:55:04,471

put it and they go and then their,

their reward for that or their

:

00:55:04,471 --> 00:55:06,091

reinforcer, if you like for that.

:

00:55:06,841 --> 00:55:07,291

firstly.

:

00:55:07,471 --> 00:55:09,661

Uh, just enjoy doing it.

:

00:55:09,721 --> 00:55:13,621

They just, you know, looking for

that scent they can just enjoy doing.

:

00:55:13,981 --> 00:55:18,121

But just throwing the toy afterwards for

them could, could be their reinforcer

:

00:55:18,271 --> 00:55:21,511

or you could give a piece of food

for them bringing it back to you.

:

00:55:21,631 --> 00:55:25,621

I, I, with a dog I've got now,

Monty, I, I don't give him

:

00:55:25,621 --> 00:55:27,091

any food for going finding it.

:

00:55:27,091 --> 00:55:30,361

He just loves doing it and he likes

to play more than he likes food.

:

00:55:30,631 --> 00:55:32,401

My, my previous dog, Mr.

:

00:55:32,401 --> 00:55:35,611

B, he used to get a treat for

bringing it back and I did it

:

00:55:35,611 --> 00:55:36,841

with lots of things with that.

:

00:55:36,841 --> 00:55:40,261

As you can know, once you've taught

that you can use that scent on anything.

:

00:55:40,621 --> 00:55:43,021

And I, um, a video, um, I.

:

00:55:43,106 --> 00:55:46,361

It, it's quite a few years back

now, but I put all the books that

:

00:55:46,361 --> 00:55:51,191

I had in my collection and there's

very many, um, on, on the floor.

:

00:55:51,221 --> 00:55:53,621

Some of them are quite expensive,

but I put 'em on the floor.

:

00:55:53,861 --> 00:55:58,031

But one of them, my own book, I,

I made it smell of the Catnip.

:

00:55:58,991 --> 00:56:02,381

and then I chose, I told Barney

to go and choose his favorite book

:

00:56:02,441 --> 00:56:03,881

and then he brings my book back.

:

00:56:03,941 --> 00:56:08,351

So, so there's all sorts of fun

games and, and like I say, it's about

:

00:56:08,351 --> 00:56:09,881

making it fun for the people as well.

:

00:56:09,881 --> 00:56:10,241

You know, you

:

00:56:10,365 --> 00:56:10,875

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:56:11,891 --> 00:56:15,641

Shay: silly little tricks like that

and it, and it's just great fun.

:

00:56:15,881 --> 00:56:19,031

So, uh, and if you don't wanna

buy the catnip, uh, you could

:

00:56:19,121 --> 00:56:20,231

just do it with tea bags.

:

00:56:20,231 --> 00:56:22,121

You could put some tea bags in, in, in the

:

00:56:22,290 --> 00:56:22,640

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right,

:

00:56:22,721 --> 00:56:25,331

Shay: of catnip, and it would

take on the smell of the tea bags.

:

00:56:25,859 --> 00:56:26,210

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: right,

:

00:56:26,501 --> 00:56:28,841

Shay: you don't have to buy anything

at all if you don't want to.

:

00:56:29,370 --> 00:56:29,720

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: right.

:

00:56:29,741 --> 00:56:32,446

Shay: And then, and then once the

dog's learnt that you can do it with

:

00:56:32,446 --> 00:56:35,446

a 10 pound note and they learn to

bring the 10 pound note back and, and,

:

00:56:35,776 --> 00:56:38,176

um, I'm, I've got this idea in mind.

:

00:56:38,206 --> 00:56:41,056

He's already going searching for the

10 pound note and bringing it back.

:

00:56:41,056 --> 00:56:44,386

But I'm, I'm gonna make a video of

sticking it in someone's handbag

:

00:56:44,566 --> 00:56:48,256

and then he's gonna look like he's

pickpocketing a out the handbag.

:

00:56:48,256 --> 00:56:49,636

But I've not made the video yet.

:

00:56:50,266 --> 00:56:50,446

that's

:

00:56:50,475 --> 00:56:51,015

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

:

00:56:51,705 --> 00:56:52,185

Thank you.

:

00:56:52,185 --> 00:56:52,964

That's brilliant.

:

00:56:53,234 --> 00:56:57,734

Um, why is it so important to give Dogs

Choice in their enrichment activities?

:

00:56:57,734 --> 00:56:58,004

Show

:

00:56:59,656 --> 00:57:01,456

Shay: The whole, um,

:

00:57:02,230 --> 00:57:02,350

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.

:

00:57:02,476 --> 00:57:05,536

Shay: you have to go back

to, to why we do enrichment.

:

00:57:05,866 --> 00:57:08,866

And the whole reason we need

enrichment is because of the

:

00:57:08,866 --> 00:57:10,696

lack of choice and opportunity.

:

00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:11,540

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

:

00:57:11,656 --> 00:57:17,056

Shay: more choice there is, the more

likely we are, um, to understand and to

:

00:57:17,056 --> 00:57:22,246

learn about what the individual dog finds

enriching, what's improving their life,

:

00:57:22,306 --> 00:57:24,166

what's, you know, bringing joy to them.

:

00:57:24,166 --> 00:57:25,696

And that's about watching your own dog.

:

00:57:25,696 --> 00:57:26,806

There's no way of.

:

00:57:28,081 --> 00:57:28,771

Totally.

:

00:57:29,071 --> 00:57:31,471

And, you know, absolutely describing that.

:

00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:32,370

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm.

:

00:57:32,371 --> 00:57:36,451

Shay: and, but again, choice

brings us back to agency.

:

00:57:37,861 --> 00:57:41,881

And is often considered to

be the same thing as choice,

:

00:57:41,881 --> 00:57:45,181

but it's much, much deeper.

:

00:57:45,211 --> 00:57:50,011

And I think agency is fundamentally

the feeling of free will.

:

00:57:50,041 --> 00:57:52,501

I mean, you can argue about whether

free will exists, but that's,

:

00:57:52,591 --> 00:57:53,911

that's another level altogether.

:

00:57:54,301 --> 00:57:57,361

But I think it's hugely important

to have that feeling of free

:

00:57:57,361 --> 00:58:01,896

will for the dog so that they can

build confidence and, and really,

:

00:58:04,681 --> 00:58:08,731

a line that I read in a, in a welfare

book that always stuck in my mind is

:

00:58:08,731 --> 00:58:12,751

that agency was, um, for developing

a mastery of their environment.

:

00:58:13,330 --> 00:58:13,550

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

:

00:58:13,591 --> 00:58:16,291

Shay: what, you know, that's,

that's where it comes to development

:

00:58:16,291 --> 00:58:17,641

and, and things like that.

:

00:58:17,641 --> 00:58:20,281

They, they should be able to learn.

:

00:58:20,281 --> 00:58:20,341

I.

:

00:58:21,196 --> 00:58:22,666

to master their environment.

:

00:58:22,666 --> 00:58:24,106

They shouldn't be scared of it.

:

00:58:24,226 --> 00:58:27,046

And they're, you know, they're

forced into this little box

:

00:58:27,046 --> 00:58:28,336

of a world that we put 'em in.

:

00:58:28,810 --> 00:58:29,230

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

:

00:58:29,806 --> 00:58:29,986

Shay: And

:

00:58:30,045 --> 00:58:30,495

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:58:30,561 --> 00:58:33,736

Shay: I, I, I include agency as a

chapter in that puppy book that you

:

00:58:33,736 --> 00:58:39,691

showed earlier, um, because it's so

important, um, to me, and I think it,

:

00:58:39,691 --> 00:58:47,176

it should be something that we consider,

um, a lot more, um, going forward is,

:

00:58:47,384 --> 00:58:47,745

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

00:58:47,746 --> 00:58:53,446

Shay: appreciation of, of allowing

dogs to develop, um, some choices.

:

00:58:53,506 --> 00:58:55,456

You know, there's, there's

good reasons that, you know,

:

00:58:55,456 --> 00:58:56,686

we have to take care of them.

:

00:58:57,166 --> 00:59:01,276

Um, they couldn't survive on their

own, but we, we need to bring in

:

00:59:01,276 --> 00:59:03,856

that, that choice because it's,

:

00:59:06,601 --> 00:59:10,396

it, it is about freedom again

and safety and, and, and,

:

00:59:10,401 --> 00:59:11,686

and, and all the rest of it.

:

00:59:11,986 --> 00:59:12,376

Um.

:

00:59:13,066 --> 00:59:17,456

There was a, a story, um, Susan

Friedman told at a, a behaviour

:

00:59:17,476 --> 00:59:20,506

conference that I've, I've written

in a book myself at some time.

:

00:59:20,506 --> 00:59:21,496

I forget which one.

:

00:59:21,496 --> 00:59:25,726

But I remember writing about it

you know, you, you pick a puppy

:

00:59:25,726 --> 00:59:30,586

up back to puppies again, uh, and

you put 'em down the moment they

:

00:59:33,046 --> 00:59:37,216

squib or, or move or, or show any

indication that they want to get down.

:

00:59:37,396 --> 00:59:42,256

And that freedom to, to be able to tell

you, I want to get down or, you know,

:

00:59:42,256 --> 00:59:46,906

they're not comfortable or whatever

is, is what gives the confidence to,

:

00:59:47,686 --> 00:59:49,456

for, to allow people to pick them up.

:

00:59:49,816 --> 00:59:52,936

'cause you get so many problems with

people gonna pick up a dog and it's like

:

00:59:53,086 --> 00:59:54,766

biting at their hands and, and whatever.

:

00:59:54,916 --> 00:59:57,406

'cause they haven't got the ability,

they've never been allowed to

:

00:59:57,406 --> 00:59:58,996

say, no, I don't wanna do that.

:

00:59:59,326 --> 01:00:04,606

So allowing them to say no in the long

run, it, it seems, uh, counterintuitive,

:

01:00:04,606 --> 01:00:08,956

but in the long run, um, gives you a

more confident dog that you know is more

:

01:00:08,956 --> 01:00:10,936

likely to say yes to the things you want.

:

01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:12,090

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

:

01:00:12,540 --> 01:00:13,050

Love that.

:

01:00:13,050 --> 01:00:16,290

Just moving on to our final section,

couple of questions for this.

:

01:00:16,290 --> 01:00:20,910

One is just the link between enrichment

and behaviour, and we've touched on it a

:

01:00:20,910 --> 01:00:25,470

little bit, but many behaviour problems

like excessive barking or destructive

:

01:00:25,470 --> 01:00:28,350

chewing are often linked to unmet needs.

:

01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,660

How does enrichment help prevent

or manage these behaviours?

:

01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:32,149

Shay.

:

01:00:33,376 --> 01:00:38,896

Shay: So I think firstly, enrichment

activities, um, begin to fulfill the

:

01:00:38,896 --> 01:00:43,006

dog's needs so they're not seeking

so much stimulation elsewhere.

:

01:00:43,036 --> 01:00:45,491

So you've got that it's.

:

01:00:49,096 --> 01:00:53,806

It's really the foundation of

behaviour change because if we are

:

01:00:53,806 --> 01:00:58,726

not meeting the dog's needs, how can

we expect them to meet our needs?

:

01:00:58,756 --> 01:01:02,176

And we come across that

all the time in behaviour.

:

01:01:02,536 --> 01:01:06,976

It's that, you know, we want, we demand

the dog to do this, that, or the other,

:

01:01:07,066 --> 01:01:10,906

and we are not even coming close to

meeting their needs or, you know,

:

01:01:10,906 --> 01:01:15,076

that's not always out of, unkindness.

:

01:01:15,076 --> 01:01:18,976

Sometimes it's just people don't

realize what the dog's needs are.

:

01:01:18,976 --> 01:01:21,616

They don't consider life

from that point of view.

:

01:01:22,245 --> 01:01:22,754

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

:

01:01:22,786 --> 01:01:26,626

Shay: it can also, like I said, be used

as a management tool or in, instead

:

01:01:26,626 --> 01:01:32,956

of, um, an alternative behaviour, we

introduce an alternative activity.

:

01:01:32,956 --> 01:01:35,146

So the dog's got other focuses.

:

01:01:35,446 --> 01:01:35,896

Um.

:

01:01:36,946 --> 01:01:37,066

And

:

01:01:37,214 --> 01:01:37,484

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

:

01:01:37,726 --> 01:01:41,956

Shay: the, um, like the treasure

hunt, uh, or the scent around

:

01:01:41,956 --> 01:01:46,726

the garden, rather than a dog

standing out in the garden barking.

:

01:01:46,726 --> 01:01:48,916

And, and that's one of

the things I get a lot.

:

01:01:48,916 --> 01:01:51,766

People will write to me and say

they let their dog out in the

:

01:01:51,766 --> 01:01:53,896

garden and it just bark, bark, bark.

:

01:01:53,986 --> 01:01:56,476

And partly that's just become a habit.

:

01:01:56,476 --> 01:01:58,276

They, they don't know what else to do.

:

01:01:58,276 --> 01:01:58,846

They, you.

:

01:02:00,076 --> 01:02:05,476

but it's about going out there and,

and, and doing these other activities

:

01:02:05,536 --> 01:02:08,836

so that they then connect going

out in the garden, into the garden

:

01:02:08,956 --> 01:02:10,576

with doing these other activities.

:

01:02:10,606 --> 01:02:11,716

And they've got a choice.

:

01:02:11,896 --> 01:02:14,116

Are they gonna engage in

something they enjoy doing?

:

01:02:14,386 --> 01:02:15,676

Are, are they gonna stand there?

:

01:02:15,711 --> 01:02:16,906

Uh, uh, barking?

:

01:02:17,296 --> 01:02:19,456

Um, seemingly senselessly.

:

01:02:19,636 --> 01:02:21,616

I mean, they've, they've

probably got a reason.

:

01:02:21,796 --> 01:02:23,056

We just don't know what it is.

:

01:02:23,536 --> 01:02:23,926

Um.

:

01:02:26,341 --> 01:02:31,441

And, and then and again for puppies,

you, you would bring in these activities

:

01:02:31,621 --> 01:02:35,641

is very important because you've got

things like, um, being a Labrador

:

01:02:35,641 --> 01:02:38,461

person, Labradors love to chew wood.

:

01:02:38,761 --> 01:02:42,091

So if you're gonna bring a Labrador

puppy into your house, so a very

:

01:02:42,391 --> 01:02:46,141

good idea to have wood, like natural

wood chews and, and give them that

:

01:02:46,141 --> 01:02:47,671

option of things that they can't.

:

01:02:47,701 --> 01:02:51,331

'cause they, they, every Labrador

I've ever come across at that age has

:

01:02:51,331 --> 01:02:53,431

been very attracted to chewing wood.

:

01:02:53,791 --> 01:02:55,711

And I've lost a few door frames over the

:

01:02:55,845 --> 01:02:56,085

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

:

01:02:56,311 --> 01:02:56,521

Shay: for,

:

01:02:58,335 --> 01:02:58,815

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: right.

:

01:02:58,875 --> 01:02:59,475

Okay.

:

01:02:59,895 --> 01:03:00,375

Brilliant.

:

01:03:00,555 --> 01:03:06,255

So for dogs who may struggle with impulse

control, how can structured enrichment

:

01:03:06,255 --> 01:03:08,925

help them develop better coping skills?

:

01:03:11,371 --> 01:03:16,441

Shay: um, well if you're using

enrichment, we're meeting a dog's

:

01:03:16,441 --> 01:03:20,641

needs and impulsivity should.

:

01:03:21,406 --> 01:03:23,146

Um, naturally decline.

:

01:03:23,146 --> 01:03:23,536

I think,

:

01:03:24,060 --> 01:03:24,280

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

:

01:03:24,616 --> 01:03:25,096

Shay: it depends.

:

01:03:25,126 --> 01:03:28,516

It depends on, on, on, on the

:

01:03:28,660 --> 01:03:28,780

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.

:

01:03:29,776 --> 01:03:31,156

Shay: and the individual dog.

:

01:03:31,276 --> 01:03:37,696

But, um, like a dog that gets lots of

social interaction and mental stimulation,

:

01:03:37,696 --> 01:03:43,726

we'll have a less intense need to act

impulsively because they need to be met.

:

01:03:43,726 --> 01:03:49,756

So you have that and it's about playing

simple games, I think with, um, with

:

01:03:49,756 --> 01:03:56,626

a toy, with, um, um, then, so a bit

like the game where you teach dogs to

:

01:03:56,626 --> 01:04:03,466

leave it, um, things like that, that

people now are sort of, they're a bit

:

01:04:03,466 --> 01:04:08,176

worried to teach because it's like, oh

no, it's sort of unkind for the dog,

:

01:04:08,176 --> 01:04:11,896

making them leave it or, you know, not

allowing them to have something or,

:

01:04:14,356 --> 01:04:19,066

the ideas are well-founded, but they go

a bit too extreme 'cause humans do that.

:

01:04:19,546 --> 01:04:19,906

Um.

:

01:04:20,671 --> 01:04:28,261

So if we take the, the, the game of

what I used to use as, um, teaching

:

01:04:28,261 --> 01:04:31,621

dogs to leave, we'd just be, to

have two toys, exactly the same.

:

01:04:31,951 --> 01:04:35,731

And, and you probably know it, you

play with one like tug type toy

:

01:04:35,881 --> 01:04:37,201

and the dog's going crazy for it.

:

01:04:37,351 --> 01:04:39,151

And you can literally just stop.

:

01:04:39,541 --> 01:04:42,272

You don't have, you don't need

any instructor to, and, and

:

01:04:42,781 --> 01:04:46,561

nine times outta 10, the dose

will go, oh, what stopped for?

:

01:04:46,771 --> 01:04:49,351

And you can bring the other one

alive that's behind your back.

:

01:04:49,381 --> 01:04:51,931

It's about making it come

alive and play with that one.

:

01:04:52,171 --> 01:04:56,221

And then what, you know, it doesn't take

on long to learn that, that when you stop,

:

01:04:56,371 --> 01:04:59,881

oh, they're waiting for you to produce

something else and you can start having

:

01:04:59,941 --> 01:05:05,491

a, having a a, a, a, leave it queue in

there as, as you stop playing or a, or a

:

01:05:05,491 --> 01:05:07,351

weight or a whatever you want to call it.

:

01:05:07,741 --> 01:05:11,191

And I think little games like

that, that, again, you're not

:

01:05:11,191 --> 01:05:12,421

putting any pressure on the dog.

:

01:05:12,421 --> 01:05:14,881

You're not enforcing this in any way.

:

01:05:14,881 --> 01:05:15,871

You are just stopping.

:

01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:16,779

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

:

01:05:16,876 --> 01:05:18,286

Shay: waiting for the dog to react,

:

01:05:18,855 --> 01:05:19,215

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

01:05:19,216 --> 01:05:20,566

Shay: then making it joyful again.

:

01:05:20,866 --> 01:05:21,826

Little things like that.

:

01:05:21,856 --> 01:05:27,556

Just getting the dog to, to wait and, and

not be so impulsive and, and they, you

:

01:05:27,556 --> 01:05:31,816

know, they're, they're learning really

that, oh, just that stop and thinking

:

01:05:32,746 --> 01:05:37,456

gonna create something else, or, and it

just introduces that ability for them

:

01:05:37,726 --> 01:05:40,336

rather than it all being so difficult.

:

01:05:40,636 --> 01:05:43,336

It doesn't, it doesn't

have to be that difficult.

:

01:05:43,336 --> 01:05:46,006

It's not about overpowering

the dog or, you

:

01:05:46,050 --> 01:05:46,270

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

:

01:05:46,636 --> 01:05:48,946

Shay: or being stronger

than a dog or demanding.

:

01:05:48,946 --> 01:05:50,356

They, they do what we want.

:

01:05:50,716 --> 01:05:56,236

It's, it can be a, that, that, that

weight or leave, it can start as a

:

01:05:56,236 --> 01:05:58,006

simple enrichment game like that.

:

01:05:58,509 --> 01:05:58,750

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

:

01:05:59,630 --> 01:05:59,870

Brilliant.

:

01:06:00,015 --> 01:06:00,945

Um, thank you.

:

01:06:01,005 --> 01:06:04,575

Apologies to yourself and

the listeners from my dogs.

:

01:06:04,575 --> 01:06:06,945

Just going crazy just now.

:

01:06:07,785 --> 01:06:11,384

They all just start having a funny couple

of minutes, so that was most embarrassing.

:

01:06:11,595 --> 01:06:14,445

Hopefully we might be able to get the

team to edit that out, but if not,

:

01:06:14,445 --> 01:06:16,245

that's, it's just very relatable.

:

01:06:16,245 --> 01:06:19,755

It's the yappy hour and we've got

dogs yapping in the background.

:

01:06:20,265 --> 01:06:20,625

Wow.

:

01:06:20,625 --> 01:06:22,904

This episode has been absolutely amazing.

:

01:06:22,904 --> 01:06:26,595

We're gonna start wrapping up with

some final thoughts and questions.

:

01:06:26,595 --> 01:06:29,865

Literally, it's been jam packed

with nuggets of information.

:

01:06:30,195 --> 01:06:36,015

Um, so Shay, if you could give one, if you

could give dog Guardians one key message

:

01:06:36,255 --> 01:06:38,415

about enrichment, what would it be?

:

01:06:40,546 --> 01:06:42,976

Shay: Again, that's probably

something that changes over the years,

:

01:06:43,215 --> 01:06:43,485

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

01:06:43,636 --> 01:06:48,766

Shay: at, at, at the moment, I

would say that enrichment isn't an

:

01:06:48,766 --> 01:06:50,866

optional extra, the way people see it.

:

01:06:50,866 --> 01:06:54,916

As, you know, if we want dogs to

have a good mental wellbeing, we must

:

01:06:54,916 --> 01:06:59,266

give them an enriched life and, you

know, a, a life worth living, if you

:

01:06:59,266 --> 01:07:04,756

like, and something to live for and

enjoyment and joy in, in, in every day.

:

01:07:05,176 --> 01:07:05,566

Um.

:

01:07:06,826 --> 01:07:10,186

The thing that makes the biggest

difference to any dog's life

:

01:07:10,186 --> 01:07:11,416

isn't something you can buy.

:

01:07:11,416 --> 01:07:14,806

It's you, you know, it, it's,

it's how you interact with them.

:

01:07:14,806 --> 01:07:16,456

It's be in their place of safety.

:

01:07:16,456 --> 01:07:19,786

It's how you incorporate

them into your routines.

:

01:07:19,786 --> 01:07:22,546

Like, like when you're making a coffee,

you go and do something with the

:

01:07:22,546 --> 01:07:24,376

dog or when adverts come on the tea.

:

01:07:25,516 --> 01:07:27,376

it, it's, it's stuff like that.

:

01:07:27,406 --> 01:07:32,476

It, it's you who brings that joy and it,

it just reminds me of something I only

:

01:07:32,536 --> 01:07:34,666

wrote on the internet I think yesterday.

:

01:07:34,906 --> 01:07:38,986

Um, 'cause a picture of,

of my old Labrador, Mr.

:

01:07:38,986 --> 01:07:43,306

B popped up from three years ago and

we was, that when that picture was

:

01:07:43,306 --> 01:07:45,046

taken was on our way to the vets.

:

01:07:45,436 --> 01:07:49,576

And, and I'd stopped on a, on a field

for him to have a toilet and run

:

01:07:49,576 --> 01:07:51,076

around before we went into the vets.

:

01:07:51,256 --> 01:07:54,466

And we didn't know how seriously I,

Lilly was and he had three weeks to live.

:

01:07:54,826 --> 01:07:55,036

Um,

:

01:07:55,065 --> 01:07:55,645

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.

:

01:07:56,305 --> 01:07:56,845

Oh God.

:

01:07:57,316 --> 01:08:00,676

Shay: but it's about in, you

know, none of us know, you know,

:

01:08:00,676 --> 01:08:01,666

we don't know for our dogs.

:

01:08:01,666 --> 01:08:02,896

We dunno our for ourselves.

:

01:08:02,896 --> 01:08:04,006

So it's about finding.

:

01:08:04,636 --> 01:08:05,656

Some joy.

:

01:08:05,686 --> 01:08:09,526

You know, we can't all walk around,

uh, being joyful every minute of the

:

01:08:09,526 --> 01:08:14,026

day, but find some joy every day in,

in what you're doing with your dog

:

01:08:14,026 --> 01:08:15,521

and bring some joy to their life.

:

01:08:16,635 --> 01:08:16,915

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

:

01:08:17,335 --> 01:08:18,075

Um, thank you.

:

01:08:18,295 --> 01:08:22,439

And for someone who's new to

enrichment, what would be the simplest

:

01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:24,450

first step that they can take today?

:

01:08:24,450 --> 01:08:24,510

I.

:

01:08:25,966 --> 01:08:29,866

Shay: I think when you're starting

off a good place to start is, is food

:

01:08:29,895 --> 01:08:33,946

and just thinking about how you feed

them and come up with more interesting

:

01:08:33,946 --> 01:08:38,986

ways, like, like we've spoken about,

um, without making life difficult, it's

:

01:08:38,986 --> 01:08:43,935

not about making life difficult, you

know, it's about making it interesting.

:

01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:44,770

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

01:08:44,776 --> 01:08:49,696

Shay: just, there's so many ways that you

can feed dogs in more interesting ways,

:

01:08:49,725 --> 01:08:53,536

and I know some people don't like it and

they, and they think it's, they sort of

:

01:08:53,536 --> 01:08:57,556

see it from a different point of view and

think, oh, it's cruel not to let 'em eat

:

01:08:57,765 --> 01:09:03,946

all their dinner in a bowl and, you know,

but no dog evolved to, to have their food.

:

01:09:04,306 --> 01:09:07,606

No animal evolved to have their

food placed in front of them.

:

01:09:07,890 --> 01:09:08,309

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

:

01:09:08,626 --> 01:09:11,176

Shay: that and just make it

a little bit more engaging.

:

01:09:11,390 --> 01:09:11,680

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

01:09:11,746 --> 01:09:12,616

Shay: have to be difficult.

:

01:09:13,350 --> 01:09:13,670

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

:

01:09:14,170 --> 01:09:16,029

Uh, Shay, thank you so much.

:

01:09:16,399 --> 01:09:21,734

Where can listeners find out more

about your work book resources, please.

:

01:09:21,910 --> 01:09:22,029

I.

:

01:09:22,126 --> 01:09:26,356

Shay: Um, well I have a

website, Shay kelly.com.

:

01:09:26,939 --> 01:09:27,540

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Love it.

:

01:09:28,456 --> 01:09:31,456

Shay: it's a blog, but I don't really

do much writing on there anymore.

:

01:09:31,456 --> 01:09:34,306

But I keep it 'cause it's got a

lot of interesting blogs on it that

:

01:09:34,306 --> 01:09:37,246

I've written over the years and

all my books are listed on there.

:

01:09:37,770 --> 01:09:37,950

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

:

01:09:38,265 --> 01:09:43,666

Shay: I've got a Facebook page called

Shake Elliot, MSC, understanding Dogs.

:

01:09:44,386 --> 01:09:49,126

And that's just things I

think of to write about.

:

01:09:49,426 --> 01:09:54,225

It's not all about training, just it's

thoughts and, and, and, and musings

:

01:09:54,225 --> 01:09:56,626

really about the dog world and dogs.

:

01:09:56,626 --> 01:09:59,866

And, and I've got the Facebook

group called Canine Enrichment.

:

01:10:00,136 --> 01:10:00,466

Um.

:

01:10:01,305 --> 01:10:01,795

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Perfect.

:

01:10:01,861 --> 01:10:05,281

Shay: my name on the, on the banner at

the top because there's so many groups

:

01:10:05,281 --> 01:10:07,141

now with, uh, are using that name.

:

01:10:07,531 --> 01:10:12,331

Um, so if you want my one, um,

uh, look for my name at the top.

:

01:10:12,915 --> 01:10:13,395

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

:

01:10:13,905 --> 01:10:16,695

Shay Kelly, the man, the myth, the legend.

:

01:10:17,025 --> 01:10:22,335

Thank you so much for joining me on

The Yappy Hour powered by Yappy today.

:

01:10:22,335 --> 01:10:25,215

I've absolutely loved this

conversation with you.

:

01:10:25,215 --> 01:10:29,385

Literally, like I said, it's been jam

packed for of so much useful information.

:

01:10:29,715 --> 01:10:31,995

Um, would love to get you

back on in the future.

:

01:10:32,265 --> 01:10:34,875

But thank you so much for

joining me today, Shay.

:

01:10:35,146 --> 01:10:36,091

Shay: Thank you very much.

:

01:10:36,096 --> 01:10:37,531

It's been, uh, it's been good fun.

:

01:10:37,531 --> 01:10:38,521

I've quite enjoyed it.

:

01:10:38,581 --> 01:10:40,861

Uh, I get a bit passionate

about my subject, but

:

01:10:41,684 --> 01:10:43,335

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I love that your passion oozes

:

01:10:43,335 --> 01:10:44,235

out of you, and I love that.

:

01:10:44,235 --> 01:10:44,895

Thank you so much.

:

01:10:46,621 --> 01:10:47,011

Shay: thank you.

:

01:10:49,330 --> 01:10:49,450

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.

:

01:10:50,743 --> 01:10:54,553

What an eye-opening

conversation with Shay Kelly.

:

01:10:54,883 --> 01:10:58,093

Here are some key takeaways

from today's episode.

:

01:10:58,513 --> 01:11:02,173

Number one, enrichment is

essential, not optional.

:

01:11:03,043 --> 01:11:07,093

It helps meet a dog's natural

needs, preventing frustration

:

01:11:07,093 --> 01:11:08,473

and behavioural issues.

:

01:11:08,473 --> 01:11:12,223

Number two, it's more than just toys.

:

01:11:12,393 --> 01:11:16,843

Shay mentioned his five different

types of enrichment, and they are.

:

01:11:17,233 --> 01:11:21,583

Number one, safety, two food foraging.

:

01:11:22,123 --> 01:11:27,943

Three non-food activities,

four natural behaviours, and

:

01:11:27,943 --> 01:11:30,223

five companionship and bonding.

:

01:11:30,853 --> 01:11:34,363

But they don't necessarily have to

come in that order, and they all

:

01:11:34,363 --> 01:11:36,253

play a role in the dog's wellbeing.

:

01:11:37,118 --> 01:11:42,668

Number three, tailor enrichment to

your dog's needs different breeds,

:

01:11:42,728 --> 01:11:47,348

ages and personalities benefit

from different types of activities.

:

01:11:47,468 --> 01:11:50,018

So always work with the

dog that's in front of you.

:

01:11:50,498 --> 01:11:53,498

Number four, it doesn't

have to be expensive.

:

01:11:53,528 --> 01:11:59,798

You can use household items and DIY

games to engage your dog's mind and body.

:

01:12:00,488 --> 01:12:05,588

Shay, thank you so much for sharing your

expertise and your passion with us today.

:

01:12:06,038 --> 01:12:10,598

And to all our listeners, if you want

to learn more, check out Shay's books

:

01:12:10,688 --> 01:12:13,327

and resources on canine enrichment.

:

01:12:13,718 --> 01:12:17,348

I also just wanted to apologize if

you could hear my dogs having a funny

:

01:12:17,348 --> 01:12:21,458

five minutes earlier, it wouldn't be

called the yappy hour without having

:

01:12:21,458 --> 01:12:23,138

dogs yapping in the background.

:

01:12:23,678 --> 01:12:27,218

If you enjoyed this episode,

please consider leaving a review,

:

01:12:27,577 --> 01:12:29,077

sharing it with a fellow dog.

:

01:12:29,103 --> 01:12:35,043

Parent and subscribe so you never

miss an episode of the Yappy Hour.

:

01:12:35,463 --> 01:12:38,673

Thanks for listening, and

I'll see you next time.

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