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Ep 10: Overcoming Childhood People-Pleasing & Parental Expectations: A Conversation with Glynn Couch
Episode 10 • 17th September 2024 • Diary of a Recovering People Pleaser • Jenny Leckey
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"People pleasing is lack of boundaries with ourselves. When you change that, you feel like you're shifting the whole lay of the land." - Glynn Couch

In this episode of Diary of a Recovering People Pleaser , Jenny has an in depth conversation with Glynn Couch, a licensed clinical social worker (and Jenny’s former therapist!). They discuss a variety of people pleasing aspects, including the heaviness of managing others' emotions, the importance of setting boundaries as well as the true purpose of boundaries in relationships.

 Glynn opens up about her personal journey, sharing poignant memories from her college years and how trying to avoid saying no out of fear of disappointing others forced her to confront her fears. She also talks about how people pleasing shows up in her life, especially in relation to seeking approval and guidance from her father. She offers up actionable advice on starting small and building the confidence to prioritize your own needs without feeling selfish.

Additionally, they explore Glynn's own recent experiences with ketamine-assisted psychotherapy and how it can aid in reshaping thought patterns for people pleasers. Glynn now offers ketamine-assisted psychotherapy and is accepting new clients. The last portion of the podcast is dedicated to explaining what it is, what to expect, and why it might be the missing piece to your healing puzzle!

About the Guest:

Glynn Couch

I am Glynn Couch, a licensed Clinical Social Worker and Credentialed Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Counselor in New York State. As the CEO and Founder of GC Counseling, a private mental health practice in Amherst, NY, I bring over a decade of experience in the mental health field to support individuals in their healing journeys. My professional background includes community mental health, substance abuse treatment, corrections-based mental health, and emergency room social work. I am trained in various therapeutic approaches, including EMDR Therapy, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), Motivational Interviewing (MI), Solutions Focused Therapy, Trauma Informed Therapy, and Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy. I specialize in treating trauma, depression, anxiety, and self-esteem issues.

Glynn's Website

@gc.counseling on Instagram

Glynn's Facebook page

About the Host:

Interested in being a guest on the show? Email Jenny Leckey: info@meditatewithjenny.com

  • Work with Jenny - Book 1:1 Reiki or psychic channeled reading sessions. Offered virtually or in person in Buffalo, NY. Jenny also offers Reiki certification classes!

Copyright 2024 Jenny Leckey LLC

Transcripts

Jenny:

So glad you're here for a little casual conversation about people pleasing.

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I have a wonderful guest with me, Glynn.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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We're sitting in my office,

which has comfy cozy.

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So it's just like we're chilling in

my living room, which I love me too.

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So relaxing.

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And us people pleasers

need some relaxation.

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We do.

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There's always a lot on our

shoulders when we're trying to

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manage other people's emotions.

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It's very heavy.

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With that said, we'd love to hear a

little bit about your background, what

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your experience is with people pleasing.

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Sure.

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So I am a therapist.

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I'm a licensed clinical social worker.

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I'm also a credentialed alcoholism and

substance abuse counselor, but primarily

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clinical social worker by training.

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And I have a private

mental health practice.

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My background is a lot

of different places.

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My M.O.

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For working as a social worker throughout

my career, Thanks to my mentor, was

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really like, do the hardest, most

intense things early on in your career.

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So that once you find your place

and what your niche is later on.

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It feels light and airy

and fun feels more aligned.

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At the beginning of my career, I

worked with community mental health,

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with people with schizophrenia and

other severe mental health disorders.

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Then I worked in substance

abuse counseling for a while.

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And then my biggest chunk of time,

I worked at Attica correctional

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facility and worked with the

mentally ill inmates there.

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And then after that I worked

at the VA emergency room.

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So I did a lot in that intense,

quick, high chaos . High risk.

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Yeah.

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I started my private practice during

the pandemic because I was feeling

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trapped at the prison, not really being

able to help, not being able to see

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family, and just knowing that so many

other people were feeling the same way.

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And I was like, okay, here's

a time where people need a lot

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of help and a lot of support.

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So that's why I started that.

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Oh, awesome.

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I didn't know that.

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Yeah.

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And then I have been doing the

private practice full-time solely

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for a little over two years now.

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It's a amazing I am today.

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Wow.

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Okay.

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So you come with us with a

lot of knowledge to pass down.

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Yeah, but then you also said, do you

have personal experience with this?

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So you come.

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Balanced with personal and

professional people pleaser experience.

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Yeah.

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And I think I really realized that when

I started working with some clients

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in my private practice, that we had

those similar experiences and similar

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views and internal thoughts about

ourselves and about the people around

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us and I realized, oh, this is really

something that I really enjoy talking

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to clients about and it's come up a lot.

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I would like to have this part on , how

you're saying, talking with people.

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One of those people

used to talk to was me.

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As your client, of course.

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Which you helped me a bunch and sent me

off on my journey with the therapy aspect

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of it, married with my spiritual side.

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Definitely feel like that after

meeting you and going through the

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work that we did was really when I

went off the deep end into recovery.

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We had a couple of big aha moments.

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It definitely helps to have a neutral

person trained professionals, such

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as yourself , there to guide you and

give you feedback and reflection.

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When I first started talking

about people pleasing, It was a

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little by little in my family.

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Because it's a familial

habits if you will.

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And I would drop little mentions about

it and then it would start to make

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people upset because of course I'm

acting as a mirror and showing people

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patterns that aren't very self-serving.

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So little by little.

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I trudged through the recovery process.

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But it really started with being brave

and actually bringing up to the people

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who you engage in these activities with.

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Yeah, which is a lot of times the

hardest part for people, myself included.

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Setting those boundaries are really scary.

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People pleasing is lack of

boundaries with ourselves, right?

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And when you change that and you're

trying to implement those slowly,

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it feels like you're shifting the

whole lay of the land, if it's like

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with your family dynamic, right?

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Yeah.

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They get uncomfortable cause

it's different for them.

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And that's why a lot of times people

don't set those boundaries because

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they're afraid of whatever conflict

that they're perceiving to happen.

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Yeah.

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But then you're just continuing to

neglect your own needs and not staying

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true to yourself and protecting yourself.

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I think with working with you it really

opened up your sense of abilities when you

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started to set those boundaries, because

you really felt more confident being you.

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Yeah.

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Instead of making excuses or

hiding kind of those parts of

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you that were so important.

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Oh, good point.

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Yeah.

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That's true.

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Now that you bring that up.

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And like actually caring about how I feel.

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Yes.

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And not looking at it being selfish.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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For sure.

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That's a big one.

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It's not selfish to put yourself

first and to set those boundaries.

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Would you mind giving us

your definition of boundary?

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Because boy is that word thrown around?

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I feel like it's one of the new jargon.

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It's the mindfulness of

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Everyone says this.

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And people, I feel

like they weaponize them.

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And a boundary gives people the excuse

to be that an asshole to other people.

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So can you explain to

us what is a boundary?

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It's as simple as setting the ground

for what you're okay with and what you

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feel comfortable with what you're safety

levels are within a relationship.

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So yes, we could have interpersonal

boundaries with ourselves, but then

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we can have external boundaries

with other people around us.

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First speaking more about

boundaries with other people.

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A lot of times people think of boundaries

as cutting off the relationship.

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Or ending something or

Telling people they're wrong.

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Really strict negative way boundary.

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But as a therapist perspective, a boundary

helps to improve relationships, too.

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That's the goal when I'm trying to talk

to my clients about setting boundaries.

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I'm not telling them that in a way

to end the relationships necessarily.

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Yes, of course I know if it's a horrible

relationship, we talk about that too,

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but primarily the boundaries are being

set to improve the relationship, right?

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If you have a family member or

a loved one, that's overstepping

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boundaries that they don't even know

about, you're going to resent them.

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You're not going to

enjoy being around them.

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You're not going to feel good

about yourself around them.

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You're going to want to avoid.

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So setting boundaries of, a big one that

comes up a lot is comments about bodies.

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So setting that boundary of

please don't speak about or make

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comments about my body, or make

comments about bodies around me,

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will help you to feel more comfortable

being around them once they know

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that topic is not okay with you.

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My boundaries are there to improve

relationships not to end them.

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Oh, that's such a great point because

not getting into detail, but I have

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personal experience of people who

are close to me who have decided to

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take the other route, whereas it's not

improving things like you were saying,

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it should help bring you closer together.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel

like maybe the fear with boundaries

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too though, is because it does shift

the dynamic of your relationship.

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If you're used to talking about

like hating on your body criticizing

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your own body and that other person

has always joined in with you.

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And then you say I'm

not doing that anymore.

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That's going to shift it cause

you're like, whoa, that's what

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he always used to talk about.

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So I think people are nervous about

that tension, but that's still uplifted.

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And for y'all to talk about better

stuff, it doesn't mean that you

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shouldn't be friends anymore or whatnot.

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100%.

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Yeah.

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My affirmation is tolerate the tension.

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Yes.

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That's all I say to myself right

before I'm about to say something

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that's the opposite of people pleasing.

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I keep saying to myself,

tolerate the tension.

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Jenny, you can sit with it.

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You'll be fine.

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You'll make it out.

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The other side.

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You'll be okay.

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Absolutely, and noticing that

tension is the kind of the first

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steps of being mindful of those

people pleasing tendencies, right?

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Yeah, there's warning signs

that lead up to the behavior.

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In therapy, part of my goal to help

people see all those little baby steps

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that are really happening that we neglect

to notice that our huge helps when

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we do, because it would be, oh, okay.

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I'm noticing my body sensations changing.

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I'm noticing I'm starting to think

differently or I'm feeling pressure to not

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do some, what am I think what's happening?

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And checking in with yourself and asking.

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Especially if you're a people pleaser

and have those tendencies, those

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little early warning signs can really

help you to assess and think about a

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different behavior, a different decision.

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What are the signs for you?

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Because I know for me, one

of them is my stomach drops.

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My human design says I'm a sacred

authority and it makes sense.

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My gut instinct like, oh, My stomach

cramp up and then , sometimes

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my chest will get tight.

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And then usually if this is a

repeat pattern with the person, I

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will feel this bubble of resentment

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start to rise up at me, almost getting

irrationally frustrated or angry.

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That's how I know if I don't

change my course of action,

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I'm about to betray myself.

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Yeah, and that's not a good feeling.

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My warning signs for myself are I start to

feel like a child, like I'm going to get

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in trouble or I'm doing something wrong.

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I need to make sure

I'm not doing it wrong.

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Oh, that's a good one too.

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Yeah.

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I start to feel like I'm

not 34 year old adult.

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I started to feel like I

don't know what I'm doing.

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I'm not good enough to know this answer.

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That's the type of internal

yuckiness I started to feel.

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Yeah.

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I can relate to that as well

in different circumstances.

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Yeah.

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And sometimes I think physically,

I almost try to shrink, too.

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I probably curl my shoulders.

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Yeah, cause there's a physical

manifestation of it too.

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Yeah.

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One thing I learned.

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Or I noticed about myself though.

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I tried to work through.

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Is sometimes.

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To get on the other side of the tension.

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I like overreact.

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I actually just posted a meme reel about.

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This today.

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About overreaction your response to

try and do not people please ends up

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getting too angry or too over the top.

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Like I like, I'm not doing it.

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I'm not going there.

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And then the person's

like, what is going on?

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And it's just this fear.

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So you're just blurt it out.

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And then afterwards you're

like, why did I do that?

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Yeah.

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You're so scared of going there

again, that you overreact.

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Yeah.

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And it's changing so much or it's

trying to change so much so quickly

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that it makes sense that you're

holding in all these feelings that

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you've been feeling for so long.

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You're trying to do something differently,

then all of a sudden it just explodes

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and your later look back and think,

okay, I could have done that differently.

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I wish I had a little more control

over my emotions in that moment,

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but I learned through that.

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Yeah.

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And the next time.

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Actually leading to that,

I have a question for you

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putting your therapy hat on.

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So when those moments happen, sometimes

I will say to the person, like real

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time, I'm observing myself and I might

stop myself and then repeat what

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I was saying in a different way.

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And I'll say, I didn't

mean to say it that way.

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This is making me very anxious.

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How having to say this to you?

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Is that a good thing or

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is that covert people pleasing?

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Because I don't want them

to react to my reaction.

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So I'm explaining my reaction.

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I don't know.

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Good question.

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I over analyze things sometimes

too, but I feel like that might

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be covert people pleasing.

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What do you think.

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It depends.

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If it's coming from a place of some

people think about this consciously.

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Some people.

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I would think majority don't.

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If it's coming from a place, if I want

to tell them this or that they disarm.

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Oh, okay.

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I want to tell them I'm feeling

anxious so that they don't feel on

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the defense too, if after I share this.

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It's perfectly okay to let people in

and let them understand how you're

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feeling when you're talking about that.

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But that's tough, right?

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Because you also, at the same time,

I said no, a lot of times people

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maybe like tears happened when

we're feeling anxious or overwhelmed

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with something we want to say, and.

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We're worried that the opposite

person is gonna think we're weak

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because we're crying about it or when

none of that is really happening.

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So when people tend to be

tearful or a cry easily.

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I'm one of them.

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I will say I'm not crying because

I'm sad or because I'm not confident

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with what I'm about to say.

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It just brings up a lot of emotion, and

this is how my body responds to that.

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Oh, perfect.

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So it disarms them.

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They don't have to feel like

they have to comfort me.

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They can just listen.

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That's good.

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So that's definitely not people pleasing.

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I have a feeling, the reason I'm

bringing this up to you is because

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it is covert people pleasing for me.

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I think it's for fear of the person

reacting to my reaction and then

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not wanting to deal with that.

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Fear of them getting mad at you.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Then yes.

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I would say that falls

under that category.

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Covert people pleasing things.

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I think I just made up a new term.

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I think you did, too.

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So everyone be on the lookout because it's

a sneaky little bastard I'm telling you.

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You're like I'm healing.

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You're like, Just kidding.

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Your ego's morphing in

a different way here.

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Because it's partially making an

excuse for what you feel yeah.

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Who cares

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you had an outburst?

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If they're really there and

supportive of you, they can manage

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their own emotions and notice that.

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Why do I have to analyze it for them?

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Who'd a thunk we're supposed to

give people their own emotional

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sovereignty is that, oh my God.

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Who would have thought.

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Yeah.

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And it makes sense.

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If you're talking about something

that's important to you or heavy

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or exciting that you might have

an emotional reaction to that.

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And that's okay.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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My go-to with crying as I explained

to people, I was like, it's okay

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to cry because you're literally

releasing cortisol in your tears.

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you need to cry because you're literally

keeping your stress hormones in your body.

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Everyone should cry.

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They really do.

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It's so cathartic.

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I remember when I was a teacher, I

had this one student who was a crier

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like me, just, letting her emotions.

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She was very emotionally expressive and

kids would tease her and I just remember

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I called them my Oprah speeches in class.

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I like gave the whole class a,

speech about crying as a superpower

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and whoever is expressive like

that, they're super in tune with

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their emotions and that's powerful.

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You're coming from a place of

power when you can actually

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access and express your emotions.

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I love that.

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That's what I told the kids.

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I don't know if it's stuck.

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From the stories you've shared

with me about your career

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in teaching, you had such an

incredible positive impact on them.

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Thank you.

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I could only hope that a teacher's goal.

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Thank you.

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I wish a teacher said that to

me and my classmates growing up.

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Same because I had shame for crying

for probably 25, 30 years of my life.

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Same.

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So we're talking about some

experiences of what it's like to

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people please, this is called diary

of a recovering people pleaser.

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Is there a particular moment that

you'd like to share that you feel

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is a turning point in your people

pleasing recovery experience.

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I have two different parts

of that answer actually.

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Looking back there's a pivotal memory

that I have of where my people pleasing

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totally derailed my mental health.

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And I had a mini breakdown.

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So that was when I was in college.

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This backstory matter,

so I'll talk about this.

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In high school, I played lacrosse.

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My dad played lacrosse in

high school and college.

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So we really bonded on that.

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And I'm just going to lacrosse.

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That's one of the things that I can say.

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I know I was decent at yeah.

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So we really bonded on that.

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He came to every single game.

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And then I got recruited to

college to play lacrosse.

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Wow.

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That's awesome.

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So obviously my dad, my whole

family, but my dad was super excited.

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That college was three hours away.

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I'm from Watertown, New York.

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So the college I went to was

three hours away from Watertown.

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He went to every single game and he

went to the majority of away games.

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Also, if they were close enough

within five-hour proximity.

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Oh, wow.

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For my freshman year, I played lacrosse.

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Unfortunately, my coach was really tough.

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I was afraid to go to practice

a lot, afraid to not play well

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because the wrath of what she gave

us after, I can laugh about it now.

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But back at the time, it was horrible.

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But I never told my dad that

because he was so proud of

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me and so proud of lacrosse.

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Back then I totally put a

sense of my worth on like,

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how happy can I make my dad?

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The summer after freshman year came and

we were supposed to do all these intense

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workouts for the whole entire summer.

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We were supposed to stay up on our

physical health with all the things that

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she had set forth for us for the summer.

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I did absolutely none of it.

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I avoided it.

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I lied to my dad.

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I would go to the doing air quotes.

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I would go to the gym, but I would

really just drive my car somewhere

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and sit for a couple hours.

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Then drive back home while

he thought I was at the gym.

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I didn't do any of it because

I didn't want to play again.

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I didn't want to go back and I

didn't want to play lacrosse for her.

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And you know how you talked about the

signs earlier, how we were talking

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about how you feel it in your body,

how do you know your people pleasing?

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Yeah, oh my goodness.

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Like playing out real

time in front of you.

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And that was happening.

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Those are all classic you're betraying

yourself people pleaser signs.

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I was making myself sick.

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:

I was so scared.

396

:

Overwhelmed.

397

:

So the moment that I finally

told my dad, I broke down and

398

:

I just said, I can't do it.

399

:

And I told them all the things that

were happening, I was terrified that

400

:

he was going to be upset with me.

401

:

I was worried that he was going

to say, no you signed up for this.

402

:

Your team needs, you.

403

:

He was so supportive and said, I

wished you had told me this sooner.

404

:

I would have never known, Oh,

of course you don't have to

405

:

go back and play lacrosse.

406

:

You'll do something else if you want to,

or not like he was the best response ever.

407

:

Oh, So you're like, I tortured.

408

:

Yeah summer.

409

:

Actually a whole year.

410

:

Yes.

411

:

Oh, very long time.

412

:

So that's a big memory I have about that.

413

:

Continuing on until my life

now, it's still been an issue

414

:

with my dad a little bit.

415

:

Not that he does anything wrong,

but it's my own internal stuff.

416

:

Yeah.

417

:

And how earlier I was talking about

one of my warning signs is that I

418

:

start to feel childlike it's with him.

419

:

I always feel like I need

to get his permission.

420

:

I need to tell him my

ideas and get his approval.

421

:

If he disagrees, maybe my

ideas aren't good enough.

422

:

And it's something with my own therapist

that I've been working on for years.

423

:

Recently, there's been a

couple to other people.

424

:

It might seem silly,

but to me is a big deal.

425

:

It was telling you before we started

recording that I replaced the fence

426

:

in my backyard of the home that I own.

427

:

And in the past, I would

have talked to him about it.

428

:

I would have asked for guidance and

what to do and what companies to call.

429

:

I didn't even tell him I did it.

430

:

I would have asked him how much

money is appropriate to spend.

431

:

Is this okay?

432

:

I didn't even tell him I did it until

it was finished and I sent him a photo.

433

:

Amazing.

434

:

And I felt so good.

435

:

Heck Yeah.

436

:

So it's moments like that where I have

to realize, cause that's my form of

437

:

people pleasing is getting permission,

making sure I'm doing the right thing.

438

:

Because of my head, if I'm doing the

right thing, he's going to be happy.

439

:

He's going to be calm

and not worry about me.

440

:

All of that.

441

:

Yeah.

442

:

You're trying to manage his emotions yeah.

443

:

Through your actions and choices.

444

:

Yes.

445

:

Oh, wow.

446

:

So that was a fun win that I had recently.

447

:

That's amazing.

448

:

Yeah.

449

:

And I even tell him though, I said,

dad, I didn't tell you this whole time,

450

:

because I'm really trying to practice

that I don't need your permission.

451

:

And he was like, Okay.

452

:

Bad for him.

453

:

Yeah, but he also didn't realize

I thought about it like that.

454

:

It's so interesting how it can

be one neutral situation or,

455

:

decision, but so many different

stories from different angles.

456

:

Your story about the fence, his

story about the fence, even the

457

:

people putting in the fence.

458

:

Yeah.

459

:

And it's just a fence installation.

460

:

It's so interesting.

461

:

Yeah.

462

:

Do you think finally telling your

dad, did that trigger something

463

:

in you to start being more

self-aware at the people pleasing

464

:

did you know that was people pleasing?

465

:

Cause you're going into

sophomore year of college.

466

:

So it's like 19.

467

:

Yeah.

468

:

No, I didn't know that

was people pleasing them.

469

:

Yeah.

470

:

The year after that, I decided to

not even go back to that college.

471

:

And that was another big moment where

I didn't tell my mom and dad, I didn't

472

:

want to go back to the day before I

was planning to move back to college.

473

:

Interesting because I was afraid

of their reaction afraid that

474

:

they would be disappointed,

475

:

so that's still.

476

:

That's still happened.

477

:

So that year when I didn't go back

to college, is when I first started

478

:

going to therapy, which was so

incredibly important and helpful, and

479

:

I've stayed in therapy ever since,

because I realized then that moment.

480

:

Oh my gosh.

481

:

I can go to someone that's not

my family and friend or parents.

482

:

And talk to them about how I'm feeling

and not be embarrassed or feel like I

483

:

need to censor myself and they accept me

for who I am and help me along the way.

484

:

That was a big aha moment

when I found that therapy can.

485

:

Yeah.

486

:

That have that neutral person

. Which I'm eternally grateful

487

:

to you for being that for me.

488

:

I'll be recovering the rest of our lives

cause this is programming from childhood.

489

:

Yes.

490

:

So we're really in doing unconscious

programming in our minds.

491

:

With that said, are there any specific

habits or routines that you do that you

492

:

feel have really contributed you staying

on that anti-people pleasing track?

493

:

I just try to be really.

494

:

I know mindful is another big word

people throw out there, but I really

495

:

do try to practice a lot of mindfulness

with how I feel about myself.

496

:

People pleasing for me comes out a

lot when I have to make decisions.

497

:

Even with decisions with my business,

there were moments where I felt like, oh,

498

:

I should be running this past my business

coach to make sure it's a good idea.

499

:

And now I'm more mindful of, okay.

500

:

Do I really need her approval?

501

:

My business coach.

502

:

Do I really need my dad's input

on this when I can assume his

503

:

input's going to be different than

what I would prefer to be doing.

504

:

Yeah.

505

:

Do I need that guilt when

I do something different?

506

:

I don't need that.

507

:

I can be confident in my decisions and

what I want my life to look like or

508

:

what I want the fence to look like.

509

:

I'm just trying to be super mindful and

ask myself why am I feeling this way?

510

:

Why do I feel I need their approval?

511

:

Why is that child yucky

feeling coming forward?

512

:

Part of the thing was I

would call my dad and taco.

513

:

I just don't call my dad.

514

:

For that reason.

515

:

How do you handle that compulsion though?

516

:

Cause sometimes for me I have similar and

then if it was like a really big decision

517

:

and I've let it build and build and build.

518

:

And then if I already got the

wheels turning about being used

519

:

to asking for my parents' advice

and input, how do you resist that?

520

:

How do you resist picking up the phone?

521

:

It's hard, right?

522

:

Because it's so easy to get in

contact with people these days.

523

:

So it's really hard.

524

:

I usually will write it all down.

525

:

All the things that I would

maybe have wanted to say.

526

:

Oh, or maybe all the

questions I'd be asking.

527

:

And then I put it down and go do

something different for a little while.

528

:

I intercept that initial

thought with a behavior.

529

:

I talk with clients about this all the

time of like how we were saying earlier.

530

:

There's so many little baby steps in

between the initial warning sign to the

531

:

decision and the behavior that we make.

532

:

I try to intercept that even more by

putting physical distance between it-

533

:

with time, with putting that notebook

that I wrote all those questions down

534

:

in a different room for a few hours.

535

:

Sometimes saying out loud to myself,

I'm not going to call my dad.

536

:

I'm not going to text my business

coach right now, setting it aside.

537

:

Distracting myself with something

that would be more helpful.

538

:

Maybe that's going for a walk.

539

:

Maybe that's playing with my dogs

or for me doing things with my

540

:

hands really helps me to distract.

541

:

Even simple things like doing the

laundry folding some clothes quickly.

542

:

Those things really helped me.

543

:

It's separation.

544

:

That's really helpful.

545

:

So I know sometimes.

546

:

I actually had one of these semi adult

hissy fits the other day where I was

547

:

like, I'm just so sick of analyzing

myself and trying to fix myself

548

:

and always working on something.

549

:

Sometimes you're just like, can I just be.

550

:

So to me, that's feeling stuck basically.

551

:

How are ways that you

handle feeling stuck?

552

:

Cause sometimes it just, you.

553

:

It just gets old.

554

:

You're like, dang, I've

got to work on this again.

555

:

It does.

556

:

Mental health is hard.

557

:

I'm putting people pleasing under the

mental health world because oh yeah.

558

:

A lot of people that have people

pleasing tendencies also maybe have

559

:

depression, most have anxiety.

560

:

Cause.

561

:

You're worried all the time.

562

:

It's tough because you get

exhausted at trying to always

563

:

heal yourself on a regular basis.

564

:

We are human beings.

565

:

It's impossible to try

to heal yourself 24 7.

566

:

You just can't.

567

:

You're going to be exhausted and

mad at yourself and resentful of

568

:

help, treatment, all the things.

569

:

I think it's just going into it

with not having any judgment of how

570

:

you're feeling is an important one.

571

:

Oh, that's an interesting concept.

572

:

Like I'm the queen of self judgment.

573

:

Just noticing that you're feeling.

574

:

She's giving me right now.

575

:

Okay.

576

:

I know.

577

:

I am my own worst enemy.

578

:

We all are.

579

:

We are the meanest to

ourselves than anybody else.

580

:

If we said the things out loud that our

internal voices say to ourselves, oh

581

:

yeah, I think I'd probably get censored.

582

:

I'd probably get flagged

on Facebook or something.

583

:

Stuff that I'm saying

to myself in my mind.

584

:

Oh, a lot of that judgment is Putting

such negativity on it, even obviously

585

:

the negative thoughts are negative.

586

:

If we're saying something bad about

ourselves, but then our response to

587

:

that is being mad at ourselves for it.

588

:

It just continues that negativity

where if we observe our negative

589

:

thoughts or observe the people pleasing

thoughts without judgment, just

590

:

noticing that they just are, it helps

us not hold on to them so heavily.

591

:

It helps us feel more

capable of making a change.

592

:

That's a good point.

593

:

Yeah.

594

:

I know Dr.

595

:

Joe Dispenza says that we think

between 60 to 80,000 thoughts a day.

596

:

No way.

597

:

Yeah.

598

:

And 79% of them are habitual

that , by the age of 35, they are

599

:

basically your internal programming.

600

:

So you're really only working with

about 20%, but not even, I think

601

:

there's some other numbers in there.

602

:

I think it's probably about

5% change on a daily basis.

603

:

So there's no way you're going to

stop every single people pleasing

604

:

thought or any other negative thoughts.

605

:

There's.

606

:

It's just not physically possible, but

you can chip away at it moment at a time.

607

:

Yeah.

608

:

And it takes a lot of persistence, a lot

of patience with ourselves to do that.

609

:

Giving ourselves grace.

610

:

Yes.

611

:

That's a statement I

make a lot with clients.

612

:

Give yourself compassion, grace.

613

:

Understand that it makes sense

you'd be feeling that way sometimes.

614

:

Just notice it.

615

:

I don't be hard on yourself about it.

616

:

You're a human being.

617

:

Oh, I have something I

want to bring up to you.

618

:

I want to get your thoughts on this.

619

:

I've brought this up to

you in session one time.

620

:

And it still lingers.

621

:

When I read this online, that people

pleasing is a form of manipulation.

622

:

I don't.

623

:

When I first heard that to

me and manipulation is like

624

:

someone who's a narcissist

625

:

or a sociopath trying to

manipulate the experience?

626

:

From analytical cognizant point

of view, like literally trying to

627

:

manipulate you to get what they want.

628

:

Like a CIA spy or something.

629

:

But then as I've pondered it more,

I'm like, okay, there's multiple

630

:

definitions of manipulation, which really

is just trying to shift a situation.

631

:

To monitor and adjust based on

someone's emotional experience with you.

632

:

Like you don't want someone to

think of you as causing them pain.

633

:

What are your thoughts on that?

634

:

Manipulation is part of human development.

635

:

Little kids learn how to manipulate to

have their needs met at a very early age.

636

:

I know how you were saying in

a lot of people feel this way.

637

:

And I think my own, like biases

of that too, probably happen often

638

:

of thinking, oh, manipulation

is a negative hurtful tactic.

639

:

Yeah.

640

:

Sneaky.

641

:

To try to cope.

642

:

You into yeah.

643

:

So when people say that people pleasing

is a manipulation tool , I wouldn't think

644

:

of it as such sneaky negative mean way.

645

:

When we are people pleasing, it's

a form of manipulation because we

646

:

are trying to shift the outcome

to what we'd prefer to happen.

647

:

Yeah, exactly.

648

:

If that's what they want to connect it to.

649

:

You're also trying to manipulate

someone's emotional experience as well.

650

:

You're trying to make sure the

other person feels a certain way.

651

:

Yeah, avoiding pain.

652

:

I've seen people pleasers

are really funny people.

653

:

So trying to make you laugh.

654

:

Let's avoid feelings altogether.

655

:

Let's just make a joke of everything.

656

:

Yeah.

657

:

And the manipulation sometimes

with people pleasing can be

658

:

changing parts of yourself so that

the other person likes you more.

659

:

Putting a mask on.

660

:

Yeah.

661

:

Yes, I can understand that connection.

662

:

I think.

663

:

Changing the perspective of what

manipulation means though can

664

:

be helpful to not think of it

as such a negative mean way.

665

:

Yeah, because I don't think people are

not doing it in a coercive, going to get

666

:

you kind of way; it's self preservation.

667

:

I want the best in our relationship

and I don't have the tools to

668

:

do it in a more mindful way.

669

:

Or I don't know how to say that, but yeah.

670

:

Yeah, it's not a conscious factor.

671

:

It's not a conscious thought of I'm

going to manipulate this person.

672

:

It's subconscious of how am I going

to make this person as happy as I can

673

:

and make this as easy and smooth and.

674

:

I'm okay with neglecting parts of myself

or my needs to make sure they're okay.

675

:

And then with that,

676

:

in a way it does negatively

impact your relationships because

677

:

you're not being your true self.

678

:

I know in my past when I was in

my twenties, I was such a people

679

:

pleaser and I would say even to my

thirties, as a teacher, you're meant

680

:

to be a people pleaser where you're

literally told to conform to that.

681

:

You lose your identity.

682

:

So when you're saying,

Be true to yourself.

683

:

Who's myself.

684

:

I, people please so long.

685

:

Who am I?

686

:

So then it's who am I

in a friendship with?

687

:

Who is Jenny really?

688

:

If I'm not people pleasing, who is she?

689

:

What are people's reactions when

you start to be true to yourself

690

:

? Have lost some friendships.

691

:

Yeah.

692

:

But that's also my choice, me

setting the kind of boundary

693

:

where you cut someone out.

694

:

But I've also noticed people

will look at me like, woo.

695

:

I usually get the reaction.

696

:

Because I'm speaking my mind or something.

697

:

And people get uncomfortable.

698

:

Yeah.

699

:

Yes.

700

:

I guess you'd say I'm rocking the boat.

701

:

Cause usually, us people

pleasers, we gathered together.

702

:

So we're just.

703

:

You can know.

704

:

I feel like this is a joke,

705

:

you know when you're in a group

of people pleasers, when the tone

706

:

of everyone's voice keeps rising.

707

:

So it's like, what do you want to eat?

708

:

Oh, I don't care.

709

:

I don't care.

710

:

It's like a bunch of seagulls.

711

:

Mine, mine.

712

:

I don't care.

713

:

I don't care.

714

:

Wow.

715

:

That's so true.

716

:

I just thought of that the other day.

717

:

It's so funny.

718

:

It is.

719

:

So then,

720

:

you know,

721

:

one of them breaks them all like

me, and I'm like, I don't feel

722

:

comfortable talking about this topic.

723

:

It's like a record scratch.

724

:

Where do you want to eat?

725

:

Oh, I don't care.

726

:

You stay where you want to eat.

727

:

Yeah.

728

:

And then everyone's

729

:

Glynn: like, uh, Well,

730

:

Jenny: I don't really want Chinese.

731

:

exactly.

732

:

So part of people pleasing

and recovering from people

733

:

pleasing is expressing yourself.

734

:

And saying what your preferences are

and what your needs are, as simple

735

:

as where you want to eat dinner.

736

:

Or.

737

:

I don't know.

738

:

What color you want to paint the walls?

739

:

As simple as those things,

all the way up to the bigger.

740

:

Obviously bigger, more

intense issues, but exactly.

741

:

I've had uncomfortable stares as well.

742

:

I observed people . I was in

a group and We were having a

743

:

somewhat heated discussion.

744

:

We were talking about what a plan was

with the group of what we should be doing.

745

:

And I proposed an idea and

somebody disagreed with me, but

746

:

they were like having an emotional

reaction, defensively saying that.

747

:

But I calmly took a

breath and I didn't react.

748

:

I responded and I said I

hear what you're saying.

749

:

And I think I reiterated it.

750

:

And then I said, I disagree

with you and here's why.

751

:

And then I said why.

752

:

I didn't just say, I

don't want to get that.

753

:

Like I had my reasons I listed it.

754

:

And this person physically

recoiled into themselves.

755

:

They cross their arms and hug themselves

and got quiet and just shut down.

756

:

Now the people pleaser in

was then like, oh shit.

757

:

It made her mad.

758

:

I spoke up and now she's

having an emotional reaction.

759

:

So I'm having this

conversation in my mind.

760

:

And then I thought to myself, she

is her own sovereign being with

761

:

her own emotional guidance system.

762

:

And she can process her emotions.

763

:

I was kind.

764

:

I was polite.

765

:

I was impeccable with my words.

766

:

I always go by the four

agreements and I did my best.

767

:

So that was on her.

768

:

And I remember coming home.

769

:

Say do my mom.

770

:

You'll never guess my people pleaser

win, and it's always so funny because

771

:

it's so simple for someone who's used

to being direct and speaking their mind.

772

:

If you told someone that

they'd be like, what I don't.

773

:

What do you like if I told that to a

lawyer, they'd be like, that's yeah.

774

:

You are, you're not too nice to her.

775

:

To me.

776

:

I'm like, I'm a monster.

777

:

No, I'm not.

778

:

But , that was an incredible win, right?

779

:

Yeah.

780

:

In the past you would have, first

of all, you wouldn't have spoke

781

:

your mind and said what you really

felt, but let's say you did.

782

:

And then you would have worried

that she was upset with you.

783

:

You would have apologized

for what you said.

784

:

You would have checked in on her.

785

:

It would have dragged on you.

786

:

Okay.

787

:

One of the things that I told

clients about all the time, and

788

:

I've had to say to myself is we are

not responsible for the way people

789

:

choose to respond to how we behave.

790

:

Even if we behave poorly,

it's still their decision.

791

:

We can't make anybody do or say

or feel anything; it's their

792

:

choice how they want to feel.

793

:

So you don't have to apologize

if you didn't do something wrong

794

:

if their reaction is negative.

795

:

Yeah, because my reaction would have been

to apologize and over-explain myself.

796

:

Yeah, that would have been my go-to.

797

:

My go-to one, two punch there.

798

:

Yes.

799

:

That's overexplain yourself.

800

:

That's such a big one, too, that comes up

at a lot in these types of conversation

801

:

of I'm always telling clients, put a

period at the end of that sentence.

802

:

Yeah, you don't need to

justify or explain more.

803

:

Yes.

804

:

Because that is the like top three

people pleaser things is trying

805

:

to manage other people's emotions.

806

:

That's where I want to bring up too,

is just because you as an individual

807

:

or in your own stage of growth and

healing, but other people might not be

808

:

there or not even be ready to even heal.

809

:

That's.

810

:

their own soul's journey.

811

:

You can't expect people

to be where you are.

812

:

It is frustrating when you're

really wanting them to engage in

813

:

the conversation cause you can see

the potential benefits of that.

814

:

but you're right.

815

:

You're only going to set yourself

up for disappointment when you try

816

:

to expect something out of someone

that they're not capable of yet.

817

:

This is one of my things that

has changed my life when I

818

:

learned it with Eckhart Tolle.

819

:

When you're faced with an impossible

situation, you have three choices.

820

:

You can change it, you can fully

accept it, or you can walk away.

821

:

That's what I run that filter through

especially with people pleasing.

822

:

Okay, let's get a little

philosophical here.

823

:

In regards to people pleasing, what

advice would you give your younger self?

824

:

It doesn't matter the

age, whatever you choose.

825

:

The advice I would give my younger

self would be that people's opinion.

826

:

And I'm speaking

primarily to peers, right?

827

:

Your peers opinions or negative

things they're saying to you don't

828

:

mean shit when you're an adult.

829

:

The things that the

bullies are saying to you.

830

:

The feeling is going to stick with you

for a very long time, but truly don't

831

:

mean anything about who you really are.

832

:

When we think about people pleasing

behaviors, it's learned behavior, right?

833

:

Yes, part of being a human is

that we care about other people.

834

:

We have empathy and

compassion and all that stuff.

835

:

But, when the people pleasing

becomes a problem that's because

836

:

we learned okay, how can I make

everyone else around me happy?

837

:

I do I have to change things about myself.

838

:

Do I have to do things

for people X, Y, and Z.

839

:

For me, that started when I

was bullied as a little kid.

840

:

I was a little kid with red curly hair

and fair skin and freckles and glasses.

841

:

Looking back now.

842

:

I loved my hair then.

843

:

No, but at the time,

Yeah, it didn't right.

844

:

And so I would straighten my hair or

I would try to do whatever will help

845

:

you to feel like you fit in more.

846

:

Yeah.

847

:

That plays a role though, in how we feel

about ourselves up to our adulthood

848

:

too of that second guessing ourselves,

the lack of confidence or self-esteem

849

:

issues tend to really be spiraled up

into that chaotic web of people pleasing.

850

:

So it's building that confidence.

851

:

It's, physically putting your

shoulders back and reminding

852

:

yourself that it's okay

853

:

that you have a different opinion.

854

:

It's okay that you're

setting these boundaries.

855

:

It's okay that you're trying to improve

your relationships by expressing what

856

:

your needs are and they're different than

what they used to be . That's all okay.

857

:

I called myself a chameleon and I

used to wear that as a badge of honor.

858

:

And now I know it was

stealth people pleasing.

859

:

I would show only a part of myself and

I would diminish other parts of myself

860

:

if it didn't fit with said group.

861

:

Yeah.

862

:

If I'm with more serious people,

funny Jenny's not coming out to

863

:

play, from with more demure people.

864

:

I'm going to quiet myself.

865

:

And how exhausting it's

so exhausting, right?

866

:

When you can't be your full, true self.

867

:

Or don't feel like you can

be your full, true self.

868

:

We've listed a lot of things

that people need to think about.

869

:

Oh my gosh.

870

:

I know but it just starts

a moment at a time.

871

:

You don't have to tackle every

single thing we've discussed today.

872

:

You could just pick one thing.

873

:

Why not just pick one little area to

start with, is that what you'd recommend?

874

:

Yeah.

875

:

Start small.

876

:

Start with something that

doesn't feel so scary.

877

:

So maybe it's starting small with When

everyone's trying to figure out what to

878

:

make for dinner and no one's going to

make a decision, you make the decision

879

:

of what you want to have for dinner.

880

:

In the grand scheme of things, that

might feel silly, but it's not.

881

:

You are building those

muscles that you lost.

882

:

And you're reworking them and getting

more and more comfortable and more strong

883

:

with being able to express yourself.

884

:

I was just talking with a friend

today and she was telling me

885

:

her two people pleaser wins.

886

:

It's so funny.

887

:

Everyone's been giving me their wins.

888

:

I love it.

889

:

And it was telling her nail

technician she didn't like

890

:

what she had done to her nails.

891

:

Oh, my gosh.

892

:

Normally, she would just walk out of

there and be miserable and resentful for

893

:

five weeks after spending all that money.

894

:

And she spoke up and the person gave

her attitude and she didn't care.

895

:

I'm very proud of you, Lisa.

896

:

I am so proud of to Lisa and

I don't even know you that is.

897

:

I think every person that gets their

nails done has experienced that.

898

:

Yes.

899

:

. I lived with crappy nails

for a few weeks or a haircut.

900

:

Oh God.

901

:

Yeah, I've done that.

902

:

I've gone home and cried.

903

:

Especially with curly hair.

904

:

People don't know what they're doing.

905

:

Oh, goodness.

906

:

It's been bad.

907

:

Yeah.

908

:

But not speaking up.

909

:

And those people on the other side,

besides the snotty person who did

910

:

her nails, most people want to know.

911

:

Hairstylists, tell me that

you don't like your hair cut.

912

:

Why are you going home and crying?

913

:

But yeah, that might seem like a little

thing to someone who's okay with speaking

914

:

their mind, but that's a big deal.

915

:

So give yourself those

wins, don't feel silly.

916

:

They're huge.

917

:

They're huge.

918

:

Just thinking about that made me think of

another experience recently at my work.

919

:

Don't be afraid to speak up to

your therapist about things you

920

:

disagree with, that you talk about.

921

:

People pleasing happens

in the therapy rooms too.

922

:

There's a lot of times where clients are

uncomfortable saying something because

923

:

they don't want their therapist to think

negatively of them or uncomfortable

924

:

telling a story or expressing how

they feel about something, because

925

:

they're worried their therapist is

going to think they're crazy or.

926

:

None of that is going through our minds.

927

:

You are allowed to express and say

what you're thinking so we can help you

928

:

if you're working on navigating that.

929

:

When a client comes to me and says, I've

been feeling a type of way since we

930

:

met last because of something you said.

931

:

Inwardly.

932

:

I'm like, I am so glad that

they're bringing this to me.

933

:

If you don't tell me that, I

won't know, and what if I do

934

:

that again to someone else?

935

:

Therapists, we have our own

internal biases that we work

936

:

tirelessly at not bringing into

the therapy room, but sometimes.

937

:

We're not going to be perfect.

938

:

You're human.

939

:

We still have our own lives outside of

here and things that are happening to us.

940

:

When she told me what I had

said that bothered her, we had a

941

:

wonderful conversation about that.

942

:

I shared with her why, and I

remember specifically why I said

943

:

that in the moment and I was

honest with her and told her why.

944

:

And we worked through

that and I apologize.

945

:

it was wonderful.

946

:

Those are other wins.

947

:

I reached out to her after and I said,

I'm so glad that you brought that up

948

:

because you needed to; it was a wonderful

practice for you to express yourself

949

:

and express what didn't work for you and

what you disagreed with in a safe space.

950

:

All you listeners out there,

don't be afraid to express your

951

:

disagreement with your therapist.

952

:

Hey nice too, though to us

cause we're trying, we promise.

953

:

It's okay to have those conflict

resolution conversations.

954

:

There's so many different aspects

or different approaches to therapy.

955

:

So I know there's cognitive behavior

therapy and all these different

956

:

forms that you can practice.

957

:

I've been really interested

in somatic lately.

958

:

Like physically moving through

my energy and emotions and

959

:

thoughts using physical movement.

960

:

But I bring that up because you have a

unique therapy that you've been doing

961

:

yourself and then also in your practice,

if you want to share about that.

962

:

Yeah, so psychedelic assisted therapy

has become really an exciting topic.

963

:

An exciting study that's been going on.

964

:

Different forms of medications for therapy

and different and recovery from different.

965

:

Mental illnesses is really booming lately.

966

:

So I genuinely just really

interested in learning about

967

:

how it helps and what it does.

968

:

Without originally knowing if I

was going to do it or not offer

969

:

it to my clients or do it myself.

970

:

But that is ketamine

assisted psychotherapy.

971

:

There's a lot of different forms

of it, which I always like to

972

:

explain to people that there's the

injection, the infusions, the nasal

973

:

sprays, and there's the lozenges.

974

:

Buffalo, New York people, Dent

neurological, and some other places do

975

:

the nasal sprays and the Neo infusions.

976

:

But there's no therapy

model attached to that.

977

:

It's just medical.

978

:

You go in, you get your dose,

you sit there while you're

979

:

within the Medicaid state.

980

:

And then once you come out of it,

they send you on your way home

981

:

- someone has to come drive you home.

982

:

That sounds I don't,

what's the point of that?

983

:

Like then without guidance when you're in.

984

:

Yeah.

985

:

Especially for the infusion part, because

that psychedelic experience is really

986

:

intense from what I've been told by

people that experienced it and from

987

:

the trainers that I've learned through.

988

:

Wow.

989

:

And there's no one to say at the end.

990

:

How was that for you?

991

:

What did you experience?

992

:

Do you need help processing that?

993

:

Cause there's a lot of

ego things, death things.

994

:

There's so many things that can come up.

995

:

But they just go home.

996

:

That seems very weird and

unethical I don't understand.

997

:

Yeah, what ketamine does though,

even in those forms - I like to

998

:

describe it to people this way.

999

:

You think of your brain as a plastic

hard muscle that has become what

:

00:42:19,235 --> 00:42:22,055

it's become because of all the

experiences we have had in our life.

:

00:42:22,085 --> 00:42:24,935

So the thought patterns that

we were mentioning earlier,

:

00:42:24,985 --> 00:42:26,545

those feel very set.

:

00:42:27,045 --> 00:42:33,065

But what ketamine does is it softens

your brain so that you feel more capable

:

00:42:33,095 --> 00:42:38,075

of influencing different thought patterns

or adjusting how you feel about things,

:

00:42:38,075 --> 00:42:40,535

adjusting your own lifestyle patterns.

:

00:42:40,565 --> 00:42:42,845

So like a chemically

induced growth mindset.

:

00:42:43,055 --> 00:42:43,595

Yes.

:

00:42:44,165 --> 00:42:45,605

Cognitive plasticity.

:

00:42:45,665 --> 00:42:45,905

Yeah.

:

00:42:45,935 --> 00:42:49,715

We'd like to call that creating

new neuron pathways in the brain.

:

00:42:49,835 --> 00:42:50,585

Exactly.

:

00:42:51,515 --> 00:42:52,295

That's awesome.

:

00:42:52,595 --> 00:42:57,205

Yeah so I got trained to offer

ketamine assisted psychotherapy.

:

00:42:57,805 --> 00:43:02,605

And also my therapist also

got trained to do that.

:

00:43:02,605 --> 00:43:07,345

So I myself have been receiving ketamine

assisted psychotherapy through her

:

00:43:07,675 --> 00:43:11,095

and it's been strange, but awesome.

:

00:43:11,095 --> 00:43:11,995

At the same time.

:

00:43:12,596 --> 00:43:14,276

Can you walk us through

what it would be like.

:

00:43:14,723 --> 00:43:20,473

The process is you get the medication

prescribed to you by a psychiatrist or

:

00:43:20,473 --> 00:43:25,013

a psych NP through a program that we're

linked with and the medication gets mailed

:

00:43:25,013 --> 00:43:29,033

to your home in the form of medication

that we work with is a little lozenge.

:

00:43:29,063 --> 00:43:33,583

So it's this little circle pill

that you swish around in your mouth.

:

00:43:34,083 --> 00:43:36,543

It doesn't really taste very good,

but you have to swish it in your mouth

:

00:43:36,583 --> 00:43:40,483

and the medication is absorbed through

the soft tissue within your mouth.

:

00:43:40,743 --> 00:43:45,063

After 15 minutes or so, you spit out

the liquid, and you just set that aside,

:

00:43:45,093 --> 00:43:46,923

then you experienced the medicated state.

:

00:43:47,193 --> 00:43:51,063

Each dosing session like that is

three hours long with your therapist.

:

00:43:51,563 --> 00:43:56,063

So the first good chunk of time, about

the first 40 minutes, we are talking about

:

00:43:56,063 --> 00:43:58,583

my intention for the medication that day.

:

00:43:58,583 --> 00:44:02,603

So maybe we process something that

recently happened in my life that I'm

:

00:44:02,603 --> 00:44:07,283

feeling stuck on so that I can not

be thinking about that when I take

:

00:44:07,283 --> 00:44:11,003

the medication, I can clear that from

my mind and not let that be a focus.

:

00:44:11,363 --> 00:44:16,313

Or we are really talking about what

I am hopeful that this medication

:

00:44:16,313 --> 00:44:19,763

can help me with today without

placing too many expectations.

:

00:44:19,763 --> 00:44:23,873

Because for me, what we learned

is that I try to be perfect

:

00:44:23,873 --> 00:44:25,733

at things the very first time.

:

00:44:26,393 --> 00:44:29,783

So the very first time I took the

medication, the whole time, I'm

:

00:44:29,783 --> 00:44:31,553

there laying, thinking in my head.

:

00:44:31,973 --> 00:44:33,203

Okay, what is happening now?

:

00:44:33,263 --> 00:44:33,533

Okay.

:

00:44:33,533 --> 00:44:34,823

Is this going to be something I can talk?

:

00:44:35,073 --> 00:44:36,063

My therapist's name is Jen.

:

00:44:36,213 --> 00:44:37,713

I can talk to Jen about

when I come out of this.

:

00:44:37,773 --> 00:44:38,043

Okay.

:

00:44:38,043 --> 00:44:38,673

What was this?

:

00:44:38,733 --> 00:44:39,633

Why is it not happening yet?

:

00:44:39,873 --> 00:44:40,983

The whole time.

:

00:44:41,233 --> 00:44:45,643

So now that I know that there's a

possibility of the expectations,

:

00:44:46,033 --> 00:44:48,353

I can talk to my clients

about that there's no right

:

00:44:48,353 --> 00:44:49,043

or wrongs.

:

00:44:49,073 --> 00:44:51,623

Just let the medication

do what it wants to do.

:

00:44:52,073 --> 00:44:55,053

So since that time, I've

been getting better and better

:

00:44:55,053 --> 00:44:57,273

at just releasing the control.

:

00:44:57,403 --> 00:45:00,693

The mantra that my therapist

and I say before I take the

:

00:45:00,693 --> 00:45:03,183

medication is allow, just allow.

:

00:45:03,683 --> 00:45:06,833

So then you swish around the medication

in your mouth for about 15 minutes.

:

00:45:06,833 --> 00:45:07,763

You spit it out.

:

00:45:08,293 --> 00:45:11,533

The therapist comes up and taps

me in my knee, tells me to spit it

:

00:45:11,533 --> 00:45:15,593

out because you're wearing an eye

mask, noise, canceling headphones,

:

00:45:15,623 --> 00:45:19,343

and you're listening to soothing

spa music is what I listened to.

:

00:45:19,433 --> 00:45:20,093

Oh, okay.

:

00:45:20,223 --> 00:45:22,263

It's a very internal experience.

:

00:45:22,293 --> 00:45:23,493

Oh, it sounds magical.

:

00:45:23,493 --> 00:45:23,703

Yeah.

:

00:45:23,703 --> 00:45:25,893

And then I bring a

weighted blanket to, Ooh.

:

00:45:25,923 --> 00:45:26,253

Okay.

:

00:45:26,253 --> 00:45:26,463

Yeah.

:

00:45:26,463 --> 00:45:29,463

That really helps me to ground myself

so I don't get nervous and think,

:

00:45:29,973 --> 00:45:30,903

what's supposed to be happening.

:

00:45:30,933 --> 00:45:31,953

Why am I not feeling more?

:

00:45:32,369 --> 00:45:33,509

You're in that medicated state.

:

00:45:33,509 --> 00:45:38,019

It's different for every person, but

for me, it's between 30 and 40 minutes.

:

00:45:38,449 --> 00:45:40,909

Eventually I just started

to feel myself again.

:

00:45:41,419 --> 00:45:44,419

And I take the headphones off

and I take the eye mask off.

:

00:45:44,839 --> 00:45:48,019

And my therapist, and I will

just talk about everything that

:

00:45:48,019 --> 00:45:50,149

I witnessed, experienced, felt.

:

00:45:50,699 --> 00:45:53,669

Sometimes it's exactly what I

was hoping I was going to think

:

00:45:53,669 --> 00:45:55,409

about, sometimes is not at all.

:

00:45:55,779 --> 00:45:59,619

It's really helped me not

have so much self doubt.

:

00:46:00,549 --> 00:46:01,119

Interesting.

:

00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:01,269

Okay.

:

00:46:01,269 --> 00:46:01,899

Yeah.

:

00:46:02,209 --> 00:46:07,099

The expectations of perfectionism

that I have historically struggled

:

00:46:07,099 --> 00:46:10,399

with has lightened up a lot.

:

00:46:10,699 --> 00:46:15,439

I'm not terrified of making a mistake

anymore like I would be in the past.

:

00:46:16,009 --> 00:46:18,109

I'm okay if things aren't perfect.

:

00:46:18,609 --> 00:46:21,729

If I post something on social media for

the business and I realized I was a typo,

:

00:46:21,759 --> 00:46:22,989

I'm not going to delete it and fix it.

:

00:46:22,989 --> 00:46:24,129

I'm just going to let it be.

:

00:46:24,459 --> 00:46:24,969

Awesome.

:

00:46:24,969 --> 00:46:25,239

That's here.

:

00:46:25,389 --> 00:46:25,989

It's progress.

:

00:46:26,139 --> 00:46:26,469

Yeah.

:

00:46:26,499 --> 00:46:30,279

So it's lightened up so much

tension that I held on to.

:

00:46:30,819 --> 00:46:34,509

Some of the experiences I've had has given

me a lot of assurance that things are

:

00:46:34,509 --> 00:46:36,699

okay, and that I'm doing the right thing.

:

00:46:36,699 --> 00:46:40,179

It's a couple of the times it was a

very spiritual experience, which is

:

00:46:40,179 --> 00:46:45,019

not something I really think much

about in my personal life, so that was

:

00:46:45,019 --> 00:46:48,139

really incredible and not expected.

:

00:46:48,439 --> 00:46:48,859

Wow.

:

00:46:48,949 --> 00:46:49,579

Yeah.

:

00:46:49,659 --> 00:46:51,689

It's been really interesting.

:

00:46:52,189 --> 00:46:55,369

And I'm excited to be able to offer

it to my clients and help them

:

00:46:55,739 --> 00:46:59,549

experience those things and , see the

growth and change they are capable of.

:

00:46:59,909 --> 00:47:00,569

That's amazing.

:

00:47:00,569 --> 00:47:05,529

So how often are, how long should

you be dedicated to this to see, or

:

00:47:05,529 --> 00:47:08,649

do you feel change after one session.

:

00:47:08,819 --> 00:47:13,429

The researchers have determined that

the best way is six to eight sessions.

:

00:47:13,549 --> 00:47:14,059

Oh, okay.

:

00:47:14,119 --> 00:47:14,929

Dosing sessions.

:

00:47:15,199 --> 00:47:18,179

So there's always an

integration session after that.

:

00:47:18,179 --> 00:47:23,789

So an individual therapy session after

each dosing session within 28 to 48 hours.

:

00:47:23,879 --> 00:47:27,359

So you meet with your therapist again

to talk about how you've been feeling

:

00:47:27,359 --> 00:47:29,189

since anything other thoughts you've had.

:

00:47:29,556 --> 00:47:31,596

The immediate effects you

do get from it is a boost of

:

00:47:31,596 --> 00:47:33,156

energy, which is really nice.

:

00:47:33,606 --> 00:47:37,416

For me, I'm exhausted the day of

because you just processed a lot.

:

00:47:37,626 --> 00:47:41,526

It's a anesthetic medication

too, so you are not moving

:

00:47:41,526 --> 00:47:43,056

and you're feeling very heavy.

:

00:47:43,656 --> 00:47:45,696

And I think I've told you this

before, but like also you feel like

:

00:47:45,696 --> 00:47:46,836

you're floating at the same time.

:

00:47:46,836 --> 00:47:48,756

I couldn't feel the couch

that I'm sitting on.

:

00:47:48,846 --> 00:47:49,746

Oh, okay.

:

00:47:49,776 --> 00:47:50,316

Yeah.

:

00:47:50,736 --> 00:47:53,706

Experienced that state

with meditation said that.

:

00:47:54,206 --> 00:47:54,656

Yeah.

:

00:47:54,956 --> 00:47:56,636

Where you feel like you're

going to float out of your body?

:

00:47:57,056 --> 00:47:57,476

Yeah.

:

00:47:57,816 --> 00:48:02,766

That does teach you about letting go

of control and surrendering because

:

00:48:02,766 --> 00:48:04,246

I've also quote, unquote ruin.

:

00:48:04,276 --> 00:48:08,446

Those states by all of a sudden getting

frantic and trying to pull myself back.

:

00:48:08,476 --> 00:48:08,986

Yeah.

:

00:48:09,106 --> 00:48:09,166

Where's.

:

00:48:09,556 --> 00:48:09,976

Yeah.

:

00:48:10,576 --> 00:48:11,416

Just surrender.

:

00:48:11,506 --> 00:48:11,866

Yeah.

:

00:48:11,866 --> 00:48:12,556

And just allow.

:

00:48:13,066 --> 00:48:17,996

And the thing with ketamine,

it's so different than, acid or

:

00:48:18,236 --> 00:48:20,666

other types of really intense

psychedelics, because you always

:

00:48:20,666 --> 00:48:22,796

come back to yourself with ketamine.

:

00:48:23,046 --> 00:48:28,266

Doesn't alter your chemical makeup to

where you might fall back into that

:

00:48:28,266 --> 00:48:30,366

state again, randomly another time.

:

00:48:30,876 --> 00:48:31,506

You know what I mean?

:

00:48:31,516 --> 00:48:34,336

It's the safest medication for

these things to ketamine is

:

00:48:34,336 --> 00:48:35,806

used in veterinary clinics.

:

00:48:35,806 --> 00:48:37,786

It's used in pediatric emergency rooms.

:

00:48:37,836 --> 00:48:42,596

It's the safest type of

psychedelic slash anesthetic.

:

00:48:42,686 --> 00:48:43,166

Oh, okay.

:

00:48:43,166 --> 00:48:44,426

I didn't know any of that, okay.

:

00:48:44,516 --> 00:48:45,116

Interesting.

:

00:48:45,116 --> 00:48:49,866

It doesn't suppress your breathing

it doesn't change your blood pressure

:

00:48:49,866 --> 00:48:54,456

or your heart rate in a significant

way to where there could be issues.

:

00:48:54,909 --> 00:48:57,789

Before you're medically cleared,

you meet with the doctor and stuff

:

00:48:57,789 --> 00:49:00,969

to rule out any heart conditions

or stuff like that, just in case.

:

00:49:01,406 --> 00:49:05,526

So from a people pleaser aspect,

how would this come into play?

:

00:49:06,066 --> 00:49:07,386

What role would this serve?

:

00:49:07,446 --> 00:49:10,176

How would this help us

on our healing journey?

:

00:49:10,176 --> 00:49:11,226

If we incorporated it?

:

00:49:11,586 --> 00:49:16,036

I think lifting that hard shell around

our brain that we've been so used

:

00:49:16,036 --> 00:49:21,473

to living within to now seeing that

there's other ways to go about stuff.

:

00:49:21,973 --> 00:49:23,593

It could be incredibly helpful for.

:

00:49:23,826 --> 00:49:28,176

Realizing that you don't need to

make everyone else around you happy.

:

00:49:28,473 --> 00:49:30,663

Because you don't need to make

everyone else around you happy,

:

00:49:30,693 --> 00:49:33,153

it doesn't mean you're making

everyone else around you upset.

:

00:49:33,513 --> 00:49:35,553

Oh, yeah, that's a good

distinction, right?

:

00:49:35,553 --> 00:49:37,923

Because I think when you're a people

pleaser, you think that you think,

:

00:49:37,953 --> 00:49:40,893

oh, if I'm not making everyone happy,

they're going to think I'm an asshole.

:

00:49:40,983 --> 00:49:41,313

Yeah.

:

00:49:41,823 --> 00:49:42,633

So black and white.

:

00:49:42,633 --> 00:49:42,993

Yeah.

:

00:49:43,193 --> 00:49:48,413

Where the ketamine therapy gives you that

gray in between of realizing I'm not going

:

00:49:48,413 --> 00:49:51,863

to ruin everyone's life if I don't please

everything that they need me to please.

:

00:49:52,283 --> 00:49:56,783

I am allowed to put myself first saying

no doesn't mean I'm a bad person.

:

00:49:57,283 --> 00:49:57,883

That's huge.

:

00:49:58,263 --> 00:50:01,593

It helps you to notice other ways to

get to that different thought where

:

00:50:01,983 --> 00:50:05,753

before our brain is so rigid and

stuck in the way it's always had been.

:

00:50:06,103 --> 00:50:08,413

If people are interested in

working with you, is this just

:

00:50:08,413 --> 00:50:10,833

in-person or , it can be virtual.

:

00:50:10,833 --> 00:50:15,643

If you do it virtually you have to

have a chaperone that I need to be

:

00:50:15,643 --> 00:50:18,823

able to contact because I need to

reach out to them to tell them to get

:

00:50:18,823 --> 00:50:22,983

you to spit out the medication or to

be there in case all of a sudden you

:

00:50:22,983 --> 00:50:26,793

don't feel safe within your body while

you're experiencing the medication.

:

00:50:27,146 --> 00:50:30,676

In person, I obviously in the chaperone,

I'd be with you the whole entire time.

:

00:50:30,706 --> 00:50:33,316

Virtually we're on the computer

together the whole entire time.

:

00:50:33,746 --> 00:50:36,956

In person you would need someone to

bring you home from the appointment.

:

00:50:36,986 --> 00:50:38,036

You can not drive.

:

00:50:38,216 --> 00:50:38,636

Gotcha.

:

00:50:38,666 --> 00:50:39,116

Okay.

:

00:50:39,296 --> 00:50:40,016

That makes sense.

:

00:50:40,226 --> 00:50:41,156

When I come out of it.

:

00:50:41,216 --> 00:50:44,933

So at the end of the three

hour session, I feel tired.

:

00:50:44,963 --> 00:50:46,163

Like I want to take a nap.

:

00:50:46,193 --> 00:50:48,023

I don't feel medicated.

:

00:50:48,423 --> 00:50:52,603

But just, clinically, your judgment

and your reactions are slowed, so not

:

00:50:52,633 --> 00:50:54,283

safe to drive home after an appointment.

:

00:50:54,783 --> 00:50:55,413

That makes sense.

:

00:50:55,713 --> 00:50:56,103

Yes.

:

00:50:56,973 --> 00:50:57,723

Yeah.

:

00:50:58,083 --> 00:51:01,023

So if someone wanted to get in touch

with you, all in the show notes.

:

00:51:01,023 --> 00:51:02,403

So if y'all are interested,

you can go there.

:

00:51:02,403 --> 00:51:04,773

I'll have it all linked for

you so you can contact her.

:

00:51:04,923 --> 00:51:05,643

Awesome.

:

00:51:06,033 --> 00:51:06,663

Yes.

:

00:51:07,349 --> 00:51:10,439

Before we go, I do have a questions.

:

00:51:10,439 --> 00:51:11,729

This is what I ask everyone.

:

00:51:12,119 --> 00:51:16,799

If you were creating a bumper sticker,

what would be the piece of life

:

00:51:16,799 --> 00:51:18,149

advice that you would put on it?

:

00:51:18,649 --> 00:51:21,469

Setting a boundary doesn't mean

you're ending the relationship.

:

00:51:21,679 --> 00:51:23,089

Oh, that's a good one.

:

00:51:23,639 --> 00:51:23,939

Yes.

:

00:51:24,029 --> 00:51:25,109

Can you say it one more?

:

00:51:25,739 --> 00:51:29,909

Setting a boundary doesn't mean

you're ending the relationship.

:

00:51:30,029 --> 00:51:30,629

Okay.

:

00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:32,969

I think all of us need to create that.

:

00:51:33,029 --> 00:51:36,989

Put that on a sticky note and stick

that on our bathroom mirror and

:

00:51:36,989 --> 00:51:41,129

also need to put that on our phones

to remind us, so we can be brave.

:

00:51:41,279 --> 00:51:41,759

I love it.

:

00:51:42,269 --> 00:51:42,689

Me too.

:

00:51:43,189 --> 00:51:43,759

Thank you.

:

00:51:43,969 --> 00:51:44,539

Thanks for having.

:

00:51:44,839 --> 00:51:45,649

From being here.

:

00:51:45,679 --> 00:51:46,989

Thank you all for listening.

:

00:51:47,369 --> 00:51:48,449

That was so much fun.

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