This episode was inspired by a ground breaking music concert I saw this week. There were combinations of artistic elements in this show that I didn't believe would ever be seen on the one stage. I was blown away, and excited by the creative possibilities that exist if we just allow them to.

I share a vulnerable admission and encourage you to give yourself permission to do the seemingly silly, the crazy and the impossible.

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TRANSCRIPT

Well, hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the joyful creative. My name's Deborah O'Toole, if you didn't pick that up in the intro. This episode is a little unplanned, it's really come up from something that happened this week and I was really inspired to talk about it. I went to see a concert that really blew my mind and just reminded me of what's possible creatively speaking. The concert was Esperanza Spalding. She's an American jazz bass player. She plays upright and also electric bass and she sings and composes, and I've been following her for a little while and yeah, she's just completely mesmerizing to watch on stage and incredible bass player in her own right just as it is.

But in this concert, as well as the small band (she had a little ensemble) and also two contemporary dancers were on stage, not all the time, but when they did come on, at times they were improvising their movements to the instrumental solos that the instrumentalists were playing. It was just, I found it really fascinating because I really love dance, particularly creative and contemporary, interpretive dance. And I just found that it had me so visually engaged as well as listening to the solos because the musicians were unbelievable as well. But I do admit that sometimes when I'm listening to a jazz gig and I'm hearing an instrumental solo for an extended period of time, I tend to get a little, I'm not going to say bored, I just get a bit restless.

I'm sure that there are jazz musicians out there who would think I'm completely mad because they're just hanging on every note. I am hanging on every note for about the first, maybe three minutes. And then after that I can tend to drift off, but having these dancers on stage adding this visual element was just, I just thought it was so inspired. Um, yeah, just such a creative, amazing idea. But for those of you who are not familiar with the jazz scene, I can, I think I can safely assure you that having dancers in a jazz concert is not the done thing. I've never heard of it. Yeah, it was quite a new thing.

She also incorporated spoken word in her recitatives when she was, I couldn't really figure out whether this is patter things she was saying in between songs or whether it was actually part of a song, but it was, it was kind of a spoken and kind of song and it was sort of along with music. Um, but it was just very theatrical and theatre and jazz... I don't think they really a thing together.

And look, I have that notion because I had an experience that I had very, very early in my career. I was in my early twenties and I was auditioning for a jazz course in Melbourne, I won't say which. College it was. But they really had two streams. You could either be a classical player or you could be a jazz player. And I sort of, wasn't really either one of those things at the time.

At the time I actually was working or rehearsing a professional music theater show. So when I went to audition, I think it was all going well. I think they liked what they heard. And then when they interviewed me and they asked me what I was up to, I told them proudly that I was in a professional show. And I thought that that would actually be impressive, that I was actually a professional, but when I said music theatre, I could see their faces drop. And I feel like that just sort of blew the audition for me. And later on when I spoke to my musician friends about it...People who were jazz musicians and people who actually were in the course, they did say to me that, yeah, that music theatre probably didn't impress them.

Because the way they put it was that if I was a music theatre performer, then I wouldn't be mouldable to go far as a jazz vocalist. That was what I was led to believe. So, you know, I was disappointed at the time of course. And I was frustrated because I, I didn't realize until that moment that you know, that there was such a divide between between disciplines, between theatre and pop and jazz.

But apparently there was. In hindsight, it was probably all for the best.

But I allowed that experience to shape my understanding of the jazz scene. And I developed rather limiting beliefs about whether I fit in. I never really felt like I could be part of it after that, because I also love theater. And I just came to believe that they don't mix. So in hindsight, When I look back at my life, I think it was probably for the best that I didn't get into the course, because I went on to do other things which have been very fulfilling.

But it did make me think about all the other areas of my life and maybe other people's lives, where we dismiss things as possible or viable because of what we've learned, from what others have said to us. And maybe they were wrong. Maybe they had that belief because of their own experience. Or what someone else has said to them. There's probably a lot of experiences that we miss out on or that we just say no to, or just don't think are for us, because of some belief that we have about whether it's possible for us or viable.

And look, I'm going to be really vulnerable right now and admit that I have always wanted to make a living as a visual artist. So yes, I've had my career as a vocalist and I've loved doing that, but for the whole time alongside being a vocalist, I have always practiced visual art. And I always imagined that I would quit my full-time job in the army as a vocalist to become a visual artist. And I had all the determination to succeed, but just along the way, so much of what I read from other artists and what I see online and I'm going to say, even a business coach who I trusted, advised me that even artists with a huge following struggle to make a decent living from the artwork and they have to add other income streams. And, You know, that point of view seems so true, even though I don't want it to be true.

And so even though I still have the hope of being a successful artist, And even though I know there are artists out there making a full-time living, selling their art so it, it is happening... For some reason, I seem to be latching on to the stories of the struggling artist or the people who, who can't make it work. And if I'm really honest, I seem to sabotage myself by procrastination, distraction, pivoting, starting from scratch with various media because I convinced myself that my artwork isn't marketable. First, when I was doing my textile art and it was very time-consuming and had to be framed, and that was very expensive. So all of that was I believed was priced too high. And I had to price it high because of the length of time and the framing. So then I would go and make stuff that I could price that at a lower end of the market. And then I deem it not to be valuable enough for buyers to take seriously. And then I'll move on to another idea and go around, around, around. So, this is where I'm at now.

I've been out of full-time work since the beginning of the year, and I realize I feel quite vulnerable verbalizing that I want to sell my artwork, because I feel as if anyone I say it to will think I'm delusional. I think that's the thing. And I was at a wedding on the weekend and everybody's asking me, what am I doing? And. And I'm playing the artwork down and I say I'm still doing my artwork on the side, but now I'm developing workshops. And the workshops are legitimately something I am very passionate about and I am pursuing that because it's a passion. But when I talk about the workshops I feel legitimate. I feel like a real smart person doing a smart thing where there is a real legitimate chance of success. It's not an airy fairy thing, like saying I'm going to be an artist. I'm not quite sure when I say that. Even coming out of my mouth right now, I feel silly. But I don't want it to be silly.

I want it to be true. All I really want to do is make art and sell it, but I don't just crack on with doing that because I've come to believe that it's not possible viable or realistic. So this is something I'm unpacking and thank you for listening to what really should have just been a journal entry. I realized that as I was writing the notes for this, that I really need to journal this.

Yeah, so what does all this have to do with creativity? Well, It's about permission to do things. To explore the activities that you are curious about without holding yourself up with limiting beliefs or feeling silly or delusional or less confident because the people who are loudest in your life are unsupportive or think it's a dumb idea. Side note, in which case you need to find a tribe. Or some people in your life who might not be the loudest, but people out there who are supportive and who do believe in you and they're the people you'd need to listen to.

I might do another podcast on that in the future. That sometimes you just have to give yourself permission. Permission to just play with your art materials without any particular outcome. Or without any professional aspirations. Permission to change up your medium, because you're curious about something new that's okay, too. Permission to spend time being creative when there are other things you're responsible for and hint, hint, some of those things can wait because creativity is important to you, to your wellbeing so they become first responsibilities and the housework and chores, they can come later.

Um, moving on. Yeah, just permission to dream big and attempt the seemingly impossible, even if it feels foolish to do so. And Esperanza Spalding didn't need anyone's permission to put dancers or theatrical elements in her jazz show. She just did it, and yes, there might be people out there who don't like it, but who cares?

She's she's expressing her creativity in her own unique way and breaking ground for others to do the same in the process. I've no doubt that from now on, if there aren't already, there will be dancers in Jazz shows from now on, because she's done it. So. Give yourself permission, but if you really need permission from someone outside yourself, then I'm giving it to you now. You have permission to do the silly things.

So until next time, keep creative, my friends and give yourself permission. All right. See you next time. Bye.

Welcome to The Joyful Creative.

2

I'm Deborah O'Toole.

3

I'm a multi passionate creative

and I believe regular creativity

4

is essential for well being.

5

Whether you love painting, writing,

knitting, music, gardening, or any

6

other creative pursuit, here you'll

find the inspiration and support

7

to make your creative practice a

joyful priority in your busy life.

8

So let's get creative.

9

Well, hello everyone.

10

And welcome back to another

episode of the joyful creative.

11

My name's Deborah O'Toole.

12

If you didn't pick that up in the intro.

13

This episode is a little unplanned.

14

Uh, it's really come up from

something that happened this week.

15

And I was really inspired

to talk about it.

16

Um, I went to see a concert that really

blew my mind and just reminded me of

17

what's possible creatively speaking.

18

The concept was Esperanza Spalding.

19

She's an American jazz bass player.

20

She plays upright and also electric bass.

21

And she sings and composers, and I've

been following her for a little while and

22

yeah, she's just completely mesmerizing

to watch on stage and, and incredible.

23

Bass player in her own.

24

Right.

25

Just as it is.

26

Uh, but in this concert, as well as the

small band, she had a little ensemble

27

and also two contemporary dancers were on

stage, not all the time, but when they did

28

come on, At times they were improvising

their movements to the instrumental solos

29

that the instrumentalists were playing.

30

Um, it was just, I found it really

fascinating because I really loved

31

dance, particularly creative and

contemporary, interpretive dance.

32

And I just found that it catch me

so visually engaged as well as, uh,

33

listening to the solos because the

musicians were, were unbelievable as well.

34

But I do admit that sometimes when

I'm listening to a jazz gig and

35

I'm hearing an instrumentalist.

36

Solo.

37

For an extended period of

time, attend to get a little.

38

I'm not going to say bored.

39

I just get a bit.

40

Um, restless.

41

Uh, I'm sure that there are jazz

musicians out there who would

42

think I'm completely mad because

they're just hanging on every note.

43

Um, I am hanging on every note for

about the first, maybe three minutes.

44

And then after that I can tend to drift

off, but having these dances on stage.

45

Adding this visual element was just,

I just thought it was so inspired.

46

Um, yeah, just such a

creative, amazing idea.

47

Um, but for those of you who are not

familiar with the jazz scene, I can.

48

I think I can safely assure you

that having dancers in a jazz

49

concert is not the dumb thing.

50

I've never heard of it.

51

Yeah, it was quite a new thing.

52

Uh, she also incorporated.

53

Spoken word in her.

54

Recitatives when she was, I couldn't

really figure out whether this is

55

patter things she was saying in

between songs or whether it was

56

actually part of a song, but it was.

57

It was kind of a spoken and kind of song

and it was sort of along with music.

58

Um, but it was just very theatrical and.

59

Theater and jazz.

60

I don't think they

really a thing together.

61

Um, and look,

62

I have that notion because.

63

I haven't experienced that.

64

I had very, very early in my career.

65

I was in my early twenties and I

was auditioning for a jazz course.

66

In Melbourne, I won't say which.

67

College.

68

It was, um, But they

really had two streams.

69

You could either be, um, an, a classical

player or you could be a jazz player.

70

And.

71

I sort of, wasn't really either

one of those things at the time.

72

At the time I actually was

working or rehearsing a

73

professional music theater show.

74

So when I went to audition, I

think it was all going well.

75

I think they liked what they heard.

76

And then when they interviewed me and they

asked me what I was up to, I told them

77

proudly that I was in a professional show.

78

And I thought that that

would actually be impressive.

79

That I was actually a professional,

but when I said music, theater,

80

I could see their faces drop.

81

And I feel like that just sort

of blew the audition for me.

82

And later on when I spoke to my.

83

Musician friends about it.

84

People who were jazz.

85

Musicians and people who

actually were in the course.

86

They did say to me that,

yeah, that's music theater,

87

probably didn't impress them.

88

Because the way they put it was that.

89

If I was a music theater performer,

then I wouldn't be moldable.

90

Um, two.

91

To go far as a jazz vocalist.

92

That was what I was led to believe.

93

So, you know, I was

disappointed at the time.

94

Of course.

95

And I was frustrated because I, I

didn't realize until that moment that.

96

That you know, that there was such a

divide between between disciplines,

97

between theater and pop and jazz.

98

But apparently there was.

99

In hindsight, it was

probably all for the best.

100

But I allowed that experience to shape

my understanding of the jazz scene.

101

And I developed rather limiting

beliefs about whether I fit in.

102

I never really felt like I

could be part of it after that,

103

because I also love theater.

104

And I just came to believe

that they don't mix.

105

So in hindsight, When I look back

at my life, I think it was probably

106

for the best that I didn't get into

the course, because I went on to do

107

other things which have been very

fulfilling, But it did make me think.

108

About all the other areas

of, of my life and maybe.

109

Other people's lives, where we dismiss.

110

Things as possible or viable.

111

Because of what we've learned

from what others have said to us.

112

And maybe they were wrong.

113

Uh, maybe they had that belief

because of their own experience.

114

Or what someone else has said to them.

115

Um, yeah, that's probably

a lot of experiences.

116

That we miss out on or that we just

say no to, or just don't think I, for

117

us, because of some belief that we have

about whether it's possible for us or.

118

Or viable.

119

Um, and look, I'm going to be really

vulnerable right now and admit that.

120

I have always wanted to make a

living as an, as a visual artist.

121

So yes, I've had my career as a vocalist

and I've loved doing that, but for the

122

whole time alongside being a vocalist,

I have always practiced visual art.

123

And I always imagined that I would quit my

full-time job in the army as a vocalist.

124

To become a visual artist.

125

And I had all the determination to

succeed, but just along the way,

126

so much of what I read from other

artists and what I see online and.

127

I'm going to say, even a

business coach who I trusted.

128

Advise me that even artists with a

huge following struggle to make a

129

decent living from the artwork and

they have to add other income streams.

130

And.

131

You know, that point of view

seems so true, even though

132

I don't want it to be true.

133

And so even though I still have the

hope of being a successful artist,

134

And I didn't, even though I know

there are artists out there making a

135

full-time living, selling their art.

136

So it, it is happening.

137

For some reason,

138

I seem to be latching on to the

stories of the struggling artist or

139

the people who, who can't make it work.

140

And if I'm really honest, I seem to

sabotage myself by procrastination.

141

Destruction.

142

Pivoting, uh, starting from scratch

with there is media because I convinced

143

myself that my artwork isn't marketable.

144

First, when I was doing my textile art

and I was very time-consuming and had to

145

be framed, and that was very expensive.

146

So all of that was I

believed was priced too high.

147

And I had to price it high because.

148

Of the length of time and the framing.

149

Um, so then I would go and make

stuff that I could price that

150

at a lower end of the market.

151

And then I deem not to be valuable

enough for buyers to take seriously.

152

And then I'll move on to another

idea and go around, around, around.

153

So, this is where I'm at now.

154

I've been.

155

Out of full-time work.

156

Since the beginning of the year.

157

And I, I realize I feel quite

vulnerable verbalizing that

158

I want to sell my artwork.

159

Because.

160

I feel as if anyone I say it

to will think I'm delusional.

161

I think that's the thing.

162

And I was at a wedding on the weekend and

everybody's asking me, what am I doing?

163

And.

164

And I'm playing the artwork down and I'm,

uh, I say I'm still doing my artwork on

165

the side, but now I'm developing workshops

166

and the workshops.

167

Legitimately something I am very

passionate about and I am pursuing

168

that because it's a passion.

169

But when I talk about the workshops.

170

I feel legitimate.

171

I feel like a real smart person

doing a smart thing where there is

172

a real legitimate chance of success.

173

It's not an airy fairy thing, like

saying I'm going to be an artist.

174

I'm not quite sure when I say that.

175

Even coming out of my mouth

right now, I feel silly.

176

But I don't want it to be silly.

177

I want it to be true.

178

All I really want to do is make

art and sell it, but I don't.

179

Just crack on with doing that because

I've come to believe that it's

180

not possible viable or realistic.

181

So this is something I'm unpacking

and thank you for listening

182

to, uh, what really should

have just been a journal entry.

183

I realized that as I was.

184

Writing the notes for this, that

I really need to journal this.

185

Yeah, so, so what does all this

have to do with creativity?

186

Well, It's about permission to do things.

187

To explore the activities that you are

curious about without holding yourself up.

188

With limiting beliefs or

feeling silly or delusional.

189

All less confident because the people

who are allowed us in your life are

190

unsupportive or think it's a dumb idea.

191

Side note, in which case

you need to find a tribe.

192

Or some people in your life who

might not be the loudest, but people

193

out there who are supportive and

who do believe in you and they're

194

the people you'd need to listen to.

195

Uh, might do another podcast

on that in the future.

196

That sometimes you just have

to give yourself permission.

197

Permission to just play with your art

materials without any particular outcome.

198

Or without any professional aspirations.

199

Permission to change up your

medium, because you're curious about

200

something new that's okay, too.

201

Permission to spend time being creative

when there are other things you're

202

responsible for and hint, hint.

203

Some of those things can wait because

creativity is important to you.

204

To your wellbeing so they can

come first responsibilities.

205

I E housework and chores,

they can come later.

206

Um, moving on.

207

Yeah, just permission to dream big

and attempt the seemingly impossible,

208

even if it feels foolish to do so.

209

And Esperanza Spalding didn't need

anyone's permission to put dances or

210

theatrical elements in her jazz show.

211

She just did it, and yes, there

might be people out there who

212

don't like it, but who cares?

213

She's she's expressing her

creativity in her own unique way.

214

And.

215

Breaking ground for others to

do the same in the process.

216

I've no doubt that from now on.

217

If there aren't already, there will be.

218

Dancers in Joe's shows from

now on, because she's done it.

219

So.

220

Give yourself permission, but

if you really need permission

221

from someone outside yourself,

then I'm giving it to you.

222

Now you have permission.

223

To do.

224

The silly things.

225

So until next time.

226

Kate creative, my friends

and give yourself permission.

227

All right.

228

See you next time.

229

Bye.

230

I hope you enjoyed this

episode of The Joyful Creative.

231

If you did, be sure to subscribe

so you catch them every week.

232

And if you can, please take a moment

to leave a review or share it with a

233

friend so the podcast can reach more

people who need support and inspiration.

234

Thanks for listening and keep creative.