Motherhood can shake your sense of self like nothing else. Whether you're battling imposter syndrome, perfectionism, or just feeling like you're not doing enough, this episode is your permission slip to slow down, soften, and reconnect with what confidence can truly feel like. Think steady, spacious and grounded in who you already are.

In this week’s episode of The Science of Motherhood, Dr. Renee White chats with Fleur Chambers, internationally recognised mindfulness teacher, founder of The Happy Habit meditation app, and author of the new book Wholehearted Confidence. Fleur shares her wisdom on redefining confidence in a way that works for real mums in the real world.

Together, they explore mindfulness, small moments that shape us, and how to befriend your inner critic so it no longer runs the show. Fleur brings a refreshing, down-to-earth approach to feeling more at ease in your own skin.

You’ll hear about:

• What the “wholehearted posture” is and how it can shift your energy in 10 seconds
• Why perfectionism and people-pleasing aren't helping you feel confident
• How to work with (not against) your inner critic
• What Fleur calls "small comments, big impacts" and why they stick with us
• Why nature, laughter and letting go of the mess can bring you back to yourself

This is your gentle reminder that confidence doesn't have to be loud. It can be soft, steady, and rooted in self-compassion.

Resources and Links:

📲 Want to chat more about this? Connect with Renee on Instagram: @fillyourcup_

🌐 Want to learn more about Dr Renee White and explore Fill Your Cup Doula services

🍪If you want to gobble up our famous Chocolate + Goji lactation cookies, look no further!

🌐 Grab a Fill Your Cup meal or self-care kit – Use code FILLMYCUP for 10% off at ifillyourcup.com

📘 Order Fleur’s book, Wholehearted Confidence – thehappyhabit.com.au

📲 Download Fleur’s meditation app, The Happy Habit – Available on the App Store and Google Play

📲 Connect with Fleur on Instagram – @thehappyhabitwithfleurchambers

🎧 Loved this episode?

Share it with a friend who needs a little reminder that she's already enough. And if you haven’t already, hit subscribe and leave a review so more mums can discover these supportive, real-life conversations.

Because confidence isn't about being perfect. It's about showing up, exactly as you are. 💛

Disclaimer: The information on this podcast presented by the Fill Your Cup is not a substitute for independent professional advice.

Nothing contained in this podcast is intended to be used as medical advice and it is not intended to be used to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease, nor should it be used for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for your own health professional's advice.

[00:00:27] Dr Renee White: I'm Dr. Renee White, and this is The [00:00:30] Science of Motherhood. Hello and welcome to episode 174 of The Science of Motherhood. I'm your host, Dr. Renee White. Thanks so much for joining me today. We have got one of our extended episodes with a beautiful Fleur Chambers. I cannot wait for you to listen to this. It's, I love talking to Flur.

[00:01:28] Dr Renee White: It will come. It's a [00:01:30] matter of time and for those of you who you know, sometimes there's some of us who do struggle over that, over that day, my heart goes out to you. Take some time and rest for yourself. So this is actually probably a really beautiful episode to listen to. It is about confidence. It is about reflection.

[00:02:34] Dr Renee White: So enjoy some oxytocin boosting, um, meal kits that, you know, you can whip together in like 15 minutes flat. They're awesome. Lactation cookies, dahl, nice, beautiful postpartum kind of sits, which you can have in the bath. Absolutely gorgeous. Alright, today's episode we have got the absolutely amazing Fleur Chambers with [00:03:00] us.

[00:03:36] Dr Renee White: So Fleur walks us through the inspiration behind the book. She talks about this amazing thing called Wholehearted Posture. I really want you to do it. Do it as you're listening. It's awesome. Don't do it if you're driving a car because you have to take your eyes off the road, but practice it. If you're sitting at the lights, practice it.

[00:04:31] Dr Renee White: Um, and then we dive into what I like to call my own self therapy session, which is how I kind of hijack these guest episodes sometimes for myself and I, I talk to Fleur about, you know, how do you, how do you kind of overcome this whole imposter syndrome and, and self-doubt and things like that. So she walks us through that, which is absolutely amazing.

[00:05:18] Dr Renee White: But as I've dived further and further into this motherhood journey, I totally get it. I totally understand that there are, certain chapters in our lives where we have to surrender and [00:05:30] we have to accept the things that are in front of us and we can't go flat chat, which was a huge issue for me, hello A type personality.

[00:06:03] Dr Renee White: So there's like tangible tools that you can go, okay, this is how I'm gonna practice it. They're the types of books that I really love. So if that sings to you, then this is totally gonna be your jam. So Fleur Chambers, Wholehearted Confidence. Get yourself a copy at Think. You can grab it off Amazon. It will be in the show notes, the link to the book.

[00:06:39] Fleur Chambers: I'm good. Thanks so much for having me. I'm, I'm really pleased to be here.

[00:06:57] Dr Renee White: Is this your third book? Third.

[00:07:01] Dr Renee White: Wow. For all those playing at home on the visuals, this is the beautiful book. Wholehearted Confidence and can I just say first before we even dive into anything Fleur, the illustrations in this book, I am gonna start like a petition. Can you please have these as like a separate thing that I can buy in like a calendar or something?

[00:07:43] Dr Renee White: Who did those?

[00:07:58] Fleur Chambers: Mm-hmm. The book, I [00:08:00] really wanted to have an energy and a. Feeling to it. There's so many self-help books out there, but I wanted people to hold that book in their hands and flick to a page and just take a deep exhale because it's a beautiful book. It's illustrated. There are practices. The color is an intentional journey.

[00:08:41] Dr Renee White: That's so true. Now that you've said that. Okay. This is one of my favorite, it's got no words on it, but I love this.

[00:09:35] Dr Renee White: My brain really works like that like I loved the, and I'm smiling already with it. I loved the whole like shoulders back, open your heart and you smile at the sky. Do you know what? As I was reading that, I thought to myself, I do that sometimes just I think subconsciously, like if I'm having a crap day, I'll like, I'll [00:10:00] lie in bed and I'll just be like, just smile. Everything will be okay. Just smile. And it's so true that it just kind of like is a circuit breaker right.

[00:10:33] Fleur Chambers: We're organizing dinner shopping. And what happens when our mind is caught in this future world is actually our body follows suit and our shoulders hunch over. Our head moves forward, our neck moves forward. You can sense this forward momentum and this energy of striving in the physical body. Mm-hmm. And also adding to that, holding babies, bending [00:11:00] down for toddlers.

[00:11:51] Fleur Chambers: The to-do lists, the fear, the worries, the insecurities, the burdens, and then even better if we can send [00:12:00] that smile. Our own sense of friendliness and generosity into the earth below, which is always holding us grounded, allows us to feel safe and secure, and so that simple practice. Those shoulders back, heart open just reminds you that you're not alone, that you are connected to something bigger than you, that you are held by the sky above and the earth below, and it can just really help you, one, feel less [00:12:30] drivey and busy, and two, feel more at home and at ease in your body and in the world.

[00:13:07] Dr Renee White: And whether it's one minute, three minutes, five minutes, 10 minutes, whatever that activity is, but that's so right. Like you could be you know pushingthe pram and like things are just cycling in your head. You could be 3:00 AM baby crying or you know, you're just having a feed or like, whatever it is. And it is in that moment where you can [00:13:30] just shoulders back, tip your head up to the sky, smile.

[00:13:44] Fleur Chambers: And you're so right around the energy of a smile spurs that those neurotransmitters in the brain, all those happy chemicals. And it's not about a fake smile. Yes, it's not this fake until you make it.

[00:14:22] Dr Renee White: Hmm. I wanna go back to the beginning of the story of, of this book and you [00:14:30] mapping it out. What was the inspiration? Was there like a moment in time where you are like, I need to put pen to paper and get this down because some of the stuff that you've written in just in the introduction, I was like, yes, yes.

[00:15:02] Fleur Chambers: Well, it started as a course, okay, so it was a 21 day meditation course, which 20,000 people went through and absolutely loved, so I really wanted to make it more accessible to people who maybe wouldn't identify as meditators. Mm-hmm.

[00:15:54] Fleur Chambers: That I thought I needed to be, and there was like this just rumbling of inner [00:16:00] confidence that was actually coming up as I was being with the hard times and I started asking myself, hang on, what if our challenges and our setbacks actually make us more, not less confident. 'cause there's this narrative of, you know, you get banged down by your challenges.

[00:16:49] Fleur Chambers: And they impart their wisdom onto other people and I was actually like, think I wanna call bullshit on this idea of confidence. Yeah. Because what it does [00:17:00] is it excludes a whole lot of beautiful people who are gentle, introverted, willing to listen more than speak. Have imposter syndrome, self-doubt, vulnerabilities.

[00:17:49] Dr Renee White: Mm. I absolutely love that because I love that whole notion of being quietly confident with things and that, you know, there are [00:18:00] people, when you were talking about it, like I instantly thought of my husband, he's not.

[00:18:36] Dr Renee White: I, I, yeah. I absolutely loved that. The beginning of, um, when you were talking about. Like the inspiration behind all that 20,000 people as well Fleur, holy guacamole. That is like, that's a se Do you know what that is? A serious, like n equals 20,000. This works. I'm gonna write a book about how this, how this is gonna change people.

[00:19:25] Dr Renee White: It doesn't need to be a huge life event to have like a [00:19:30] huge, big imprint or big impact. Sometimes it's the small comments that really stick with you. And I'm gonna give you an example where it comes to me for confidence and it's, I still remember this and it's, God, how old was I? I was 23, so that's 17 years ago.

[00:20:18] Dr Renee White: And I was, I was told by my supervisor, okay, you're only allowed to do one per day now of these things. Because I think I tried to do like three in a day [00:20:30] of this particular thing. 'cause I needed to like churn out results quickly right. And he's like, you clearly can't do three, you only, you can only do one.

[00:21:09] Dr Renee White: She was fabulous like she, as soon as I met her, I was like, I wanna come back and work here permanently. And I remember turning up and I had to do this same type of experiment and I said to her, and I only had a limited amount of time, I had two weeks, that's all I had and I was doing the calculations and I'm thinking, I'm gonna have to be here.

[00:21:52] Dr Renee White: And I was like, well, I think I could do six and she's like, well, you do six and she did [00:22:00] not question it at all. She had no qualms whatsoever and she just had, she was just like all full confidence in me from the get go and I did mess up a couple, but she was like, that's fine, just do 'em again tomorrow.

[00:22:43] Dr Renee White: And it's something that has stuck with me because it, to me, it like represents like this moment where someone just said you can do whatever you feel confident to do, right? It's those little things. Why is it those little [00:23:00] things, Fleur? What is it that happens in our brains that we're like, yep, I'm gonna take that.

[00:23:34] Dr Renee White: Yeah.

[00:23:49] Dr Renee White: Yes. Oh my God.

[00:24:39] Fleur Chambers: You created a narrative of it's shameful and wrong to make a mistake that can then create something, a story in you of, I've gotta get things right all the time. I need to get things perfect in order to be safe. I don't wanna ever feel that shock and shame again, so I'm just [00:25:00] gonna follow the rules. I'm not gonna get anything wrong.

[00:25:25] Dr Renee White: 100%.

[00:26:07] Fleur Chambers: And so part of the wholehearted confidence framework is not thinking that trauma is someone else's deal. Mm-hmm. Actually realising we all have little pockets of trauma within us. Yeah. And that we have the responsibility to get curious about them because they then shape how we show up as an adult.

[00:26:58] Dr Renee White: And I also [00:27:00] remember, like, it sounds so stupid, I don't think I've ever like admitted this on the podcast, but I actually wanted to get a jar. I was like, I want to, to jar the air or something 'cause I was like, what is, like this feeling inside me was so, um, unusual. Like, and it also was like the first time I ever traveled overseas by myself.

[00:27:46] Fleur Chambers: Freedom to break free from the stories and limitations of our past. Often having a mentor or someone that just sees you in a more positive, liberating light. And [00:28:00] another thing I often do is when I notice some sort of caught in some little T trauma energy is I say, whose voice is this? Mm. So if I myself a story of, oh, I didn't get that right with the kids, or I ate too much cake today or better watch what I eat. You are lazy. Whatever it is. I'm like, whose voice is that?

[00:28:32] Dr Renee White: Yeah, absolutely. We're gonna shift gears a little bit because, and this is probably my self-indulgent section that I always have on the podcast, where I kind of make it a semi therapy session as well, although I know I'm not alone in this, so I'm, I'm gonna talk about this for all, uh, my other sisters out there, so.

[00:29:19] Dr Renee White: It's really interesting. When your book landed in my lap last year, I was like, it could not have come at a better time. I was really kind of in the [00:29:30] depths of struggling with imposter syndrome. It was that moment where I was just like, oh my God like can you stop living rent free in my head, like that voice of like just constant doubt and things like that. How do we tackle this? Like what are some top tips for me and the listeners as well?

[00:30:11] Fleur Chambers: Comparisons, high standards. I think it's actually part of being human. Mm-hmm. And I dare say that people that tell you they don't have any of that are probably just disassociated and have pushed it so far down, they just can't access it. [00:30:30] So I would start by saying that certainly a lot of people don't have it to such an extent that it doesn't have a negative impact on their lives. I know there are some people that don't have a lot of a loud inner critic, for example, but most of us do. Most of us that are listening to podcasts that are interested in self-inquiry definitely have an awareness around their vulnerabilities. So I would start by just normalising it.[00:31:00]

[00:31:24] Fleur Chambers: They tell it to F off. They're like, I'm not listening to you. And that doesn't work. [00:31:30] So we need to acknowledge that, that voice, that vulnerability, it's actually there to try and protect us. So take your example. The part of you that wants to get everything right, it's there to protect you from never feeling that shame that you felt when you got it wrong.

[00:32:13] Fleur Chambers: And what you can do is get really curious about where you feel it in your body. So just say you're really caught replaying yesterday, and you feel like you didn't get the baby to bed right? You didn't feed well. There was vomiting. You could [00:32:30] have done better. It was your fault. The baby didn't get to sleep at that time, you are like, okay, I am just gonna feel into this.

[00:33:02] Fleur Chambers: So these protective parts, they do come at a cost. So what do I actually miss out on when I'm caught in this energy of perfectionism? And it's usually quite heartbreaking to realise, but you realise you miss out on like the moments of spontaneity, the delight of seeing your baby smile because you're so worried about the kitchen or you're replaying the conversation.

[00:33:51] Fleur Chambers: So you might say to this part of you, you know, what do you want? What do you need from me? How can I help you? And they might say, the part [00:34:00] might say, back to you, I'm exhausted. I need to sleep. I need you to stop worrying about the small things. I need you to have a shower in the morning. I need you to drink more water so I can feel better.

[00:34:42] Dr Renee White: Yeah. There's so much. Oh my God. I just wanna unpack on that as you were talking. The first thing that I wanna say and acknowledge is that, that leaning into your body and working out where you're feeling [00:35:00] that kind of, you know, self-doubt and and imposter syndrome, that is something that.

[00:35:32] Dr Renee White: Like hysterically crying. I'm good friends with Bee as well. And she came over and she was like, look, everyone's quiet. There's like 35 of us and I'm just like, pouring with tears. And she was like, is everything okay? And I was like, I had to remove myself from like the area 'cause I was like, I'm gonna be interrupting people.

[00:36:09] Dr Renee White: Like, what's that? And she was like, okay, let's just, let's just pare this back. I, um, I went and got a womb massage here in Hobart with the beautiful Ella Pascal, and it was life changing, [00:36:30] like so, so beautiful. So if anyone's thinking, how do I lean into this? Like go and seek out someone who is, who is skilled at this type of stuff.

[00:37:27] Dr Renee White: All of that stuff. So we do have a cleaner [00:37:30] now, and I can tell you it has just softened everything in terms of, you know, my relationship with my husband and also that act of learning how to ask for help as well has been a completely life changing thing for me and a muscle I continue to flex on the daily.

[00:38:18] Dr Renee White: Like stuff comes out of me and I'm like, where did that come from? And it's like my hand is just like. Something else, you know? And like I'll get to the end of the page. I'll be like, I will [00:38:30] literally have, I've had light bulb moments about stuff that has happened 30 years ago and I'm like, how has this only just come out like, it's like a magic trick something journal. Do you journal? Is that something you do?

[00:39:15] Fleur Chambers: And so we remember when we do this work that we get to choose and that if it ever feels too strong, then we can use breath. We can move our awareness to a place that does feel safe. Perhaps the earth beneath [00:39:30] us, the sky above. So that's why that wholehearted confidence posture is so good, because if you ever do this self-inquiry and you're feeling a little bit anxious or uncalibrated or untethered, you've just come back to that wholehearted posture.

[00:40:14] Dr Renee White: Oh my God, yes.

[00:40:37] Fleur Chambers: Yeah. Um, it's deeply comforting and I thought, okay, well I'll give other people the gift of seeing my messy house. Yes. Perfect. And the journaling is very interesting and what it speaks to is finding your own pathway in. So for you it might be writing. [00:41:00] For others, it could be music. Mm-hmm. Listening to the same song and having a good old cry and something coming up.

[00:41:37] Dr Renee White: Yeah, absolutely. I think it comes from the fact that I'm so visually orientated and I think just seeing the words on the page like does something for me. But before we just jump into one of our last questions, I just wanted to say on the point of like messy houses and things like that.

[00:42:24] Dr Renee White: My daughter goes to school with, you know, their daughter, and so constantly coming and [00:42:30] going and, you know, picking up kids and we're 300 meters from the school and so it, our house is very much like everyone kind of hangs at our house. And I just honestly kept doing this shameful thing of like, oh my God, I'm so sorry my house is a mess. And now I'm just like, you know what? I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. I am that person where you come to my house and it's a complete bomb and I'm gonna embrace it because it means that my kid is having fun and that the other kids are having fun and [00:43:00] that this is just how it is and everyone can just suck eggs on it, as far as I'm concerned.

[00:43:40] Dr Renee White: So, and something that kind of is a special interest of mine at the moment is, you know, our monthly cycle understanding where we're at in terms of our hormone levels and how that impacts, you know, our lives on the daily. But I'd love to know, you know, when we're talking about [00:44:00] celebrating seasons, it could be our monthly cycle.

[00:44:27] Dr Renee White: What's your tips around that?

[00:45:00] Fleur Chambers: What if we could imagine that each day is actually a different season? I start each day saying, I'm grateful for today, a day that I have never seen before and even just that small thing just opens me up to the idea that I actually have no idea what's gonna unfold for this day. I can plan it out. I can meal prep, I can do all the things, but I have no idea.

[00:46:00] Fleur Chambers: Mm-hmm. But the truth is each day is change anyway. So I think as well, we acknowledge that transition is tricky and letting go of the old, before being sure of what the new is going to be can be uncomfortable and that's okay. So offering ourselves grace in the transition. So I am feeling at the moment very murky [00:46:30] around the transition from school holidays to back to school.

[00:46:51] Fleur Chambers: And there's always wisdom. I find potentially nature, a great way to access some wisdom. So [00:47:00] whether it be relating to your cycle, to your kids, to the moons, whatever it is, like nature is actually always there to teach us that the seasons can just feel natural. So I will look at my season and notice the features, the color of the leaves, the feel, the breeze, the state of the earth, but looking up at the sky, and again, I will just say, I wonder what message this [00:47:30] season's got for me. Like that autumnal leaf might have had a message of letting go, uh, the first flowers of spring, an invitation for you to blossom to try something new. So nature is a big one for me around accessing wisdom. And so I guess what, what lands for you when we are having that chat? Like how do you. Become more accepting and cognizant of your changing seasons. [00:48:00]

[00:48:11] Dr Renee White: I had like a spiraling moment, I have to be honest, before I jumped onto this podcast because I was like, oh my God, we're back at school. We're already back into activities and I'm thinking. Okay, God, we've got gymnastics tonight. I've got almost back to back meetings and normally, normally [00:48:30] I would've had like something stocked in the freezer that I can just pull out 'cause we don't finish gymnastics till like five 30. I know everyone's gonna be hungry and I literally just stood in the kitchen, I think for a good 15 minutes and was like, yep, I've got nothing and um, yeah. Excellent. Like, what am I gonna do? And, and then I was just like, it's okay, Renee like we can just get [00:49:00] sushi after gymnastics.

[00:49:26] Fleur Chambers: Oh, absolutely. The other night I tried to cook dinner [00:49:30] after all the kids stuff. And it was like I had lost an ability to multitask in the kitchen and I was like, how have I regressed? Like there's skill regression. Um, I sort of was like rude to a kid or whatever we all sat down. It was a weird vibe and I just owned it.

[00:50:30] Fleur Chambers: So in that energy that we can cope, like what about just having a little bit of flow that meant, oh, there's no food in the fridge, we can get sushi. Yeah. Like that's probably okay too.

[00:51:05] Fleur Chambers: Oh, I just wanted to say if you are here listening to this podcast, you are already enough. You are awesome. Your kids are lucky to have you. Offer a little bit of that love and care to yourself. You deserve it.

[00:51:33] Fleur Chambers: Laugh with your kids.

[00:51:54] Fleur Chambers: I do think there's a beautiful poem by Michael Luning on motherhood that if [00:52:00] people wanted to look up, it's really tender and really beautiful. Okay. We'll, uh, motherhood by Michael Luning.

[00:52:19] Fleur Chambers: Uh, special potion

[00:52:27] Fleur Chambers: It's a special potion. It's an Aura [00:52:30] Soma bottle, which they contain minerals and herbs and the energy of the earth, and you put them on your body and it activates and it's like a. Taking a little trip as you go to sleep.

[00:52:54] Fleur Chambers: Yeah, it's called Aura Soma, A-U-R-A-S-O-M-A. And there's [00:53:00] about 180 bottles in the collection. And the idea is that you choose a bottle that speaks to you intuitively and then you put it on your body. Yeah. And it activates so people could just look at the website and, and see if they like it. It's just another form of sort of, um, therapy, I guess. Like a reiki or, but you do it yourself.

[00:54:17] Fleur Chambers: So the book, Wholehearted Confidence, uh, I would just suggest buying on Amazon or wherever and getting it delivered straight to your home. I have my own meditation app called the Happy Habit. It's [00:54:30] all my own meditations, one voice, one teacher, one framework. There's heaps of meditations you can listen to. There's sleep practices, there's journaling, there's music, and you can access loads of that for free for as long as you like, none of this credit card will start taxing you in a week's time.

[00:54:59] Dr Renee White: oh my [00:55:00] god.

[00:55:02] Dr Renee White: Yes you do. Everyone block your ears.

[00:55:22] Fleur Chambers: No pressure an imperfect meditation is better than no meditation. And then Instagram, I'm just all [00:55:30] about funny memes. That's what I'm posting at the moment because I think we could all just do with a laugh and realise that we are all dealing with the same stuff.

[00:56:10] Dr Renee White: Like it's just one of those things where. You just wanna take some time for yourself to work through it and it's absolutely beautiful. Thank you again for coming on the podcast Fleur, it's been amazing.

[00:56:26]

[00:56:31] Dr Renee White: If you loved this episode, please hit the subscribe button and leave a review. If you know someone out there who would also love to listen to this episode, please hit the share button so they can benefit from it as well. You've just listened to another episode of The Science of Motherhood proudly presented by Fill Your Cup, Australia's first doula village.