"It was always a competition between the two of them - who could get the first word in. Of course, Cloughie won that!"

Former Fleet Street journalist Norman Giller recalls the time Brian Clough met-up again with his great friend and Spurs legend Jimmy Greaves.

"When Jimmy began his broadcasting career, the very first phone call he got was from Cloughie who insisted that Jimmy get on a train and he would give him an interview 'for nowt,' as Cloughie would say."

Norman also reveals how the quiet Clough he first met with the England squad in 1959 was nothing like the legendary figure he would become.

Speaking to pod host Marcus Alton, Norman recalls some wonderful Cloughie stories spanning several decades.

He also talks about the times he interviewed Clough and filmed a surprise presentation for his friend, the commentator Brian Moore (resulting in the title of this episode!).

Norman has written more than 100 books - his latest being the authorised biography of Jimmy Greaves. You can find out more at normangillerbooks.com.

We hope you enjoy the chat.