In this episode, we share an interview with Um Ramadan. We met her at a demonstration outside the district court in Jerusalem. Alongside other mothers, she is protesting her son's imprisonment. In this moving interview, she talks about the conditions her son is kept in and how mother's are organising to support each other. Please note there are references to suicide and abuse. 

View episode transcript here

The East Jerusalem neighbourhood of Sheikh Jarrah has been an important part of the struggle against colonisation in Palestine. The residents of Sheikh Jarrah are refugees, or descendants of refugees, who were forced from their homes by the ethnic cleansing carried out by Zionist Forces in 1947-9. This ethnic cleansing is known by Palestinians as the Nakba (or catastrophe).

After 1948, East Jerusalem was under Jordanian control - and the Jordanian government struck a deal with the UN to settle Palestinian refugee families who were living in Jordan in Sheikh Jarrah. In 1967 the Israeli military militarily occupied East Jerusalem, and since then the Israeli state and settler movements have been trying to evict the Palestinian residents - both through legal processes and by violence.

Many families have already been forcibly evicted from the neighbourhood, and replaced by settlers. The community has resisted by holding sit ins outside the threatened homes, by mobilising, international solidarity and by building a culture of solidarity.

In 2020 Israeli courts ordered the eviction of more families from Sheikh Jarrah. And in 2021 the harassment and violence against people in Sheikh Jarrah helped trigger an uprising across Palestine.

In 2022 right wing politician Itamar Ben Gvir - the minister of national security - led a mass of settlers to the neighbourhood backed up by cops. The settlers attacked the community as the police looked on. Ben gvir famously shot his gun in the air that day, as Palestinians defended themselves by throwing stones. These kind of provocations are routine in sheikh jarrah - and that's the context that led to um Ramadans son's arrest. 

We would like to apologise about the sound quality of this interview, due to its impromptu nature and lack of equipment with us! But we wanted Um Ramadan's story to be shared. A big thank you to Noah for translating.

Links

• Middle East Eye - Sheikh Jarrah explained: The past and present of East Jerusalem neighbourhood
• International Solidarity Movement website 
• Join the International Solidarity Movement in Palestine
• Middle East Eye - describes Ben Gvir's controvesial visit to Sheikh Jarrah

If you would like an explanation of the terms used in this podcast, youI can find a useful glossary on pages 140-154 of Shoal Collective’s Ebook

Supported by Shoal Collective

[Intro music] Hey, welcome to international

solidarity movement [translation into Arabic]

Welcome to the International Solidarity

Movement podcast. We hope you've enjoyed our episodes so far.

Today is April 17, which is the Palestinian Prisoners Day. We

hope you've already listened to our interview with Addameer who

are doing incredible work to support Palestinian prisoners.

We wanted to share another interview today that has a

prison focus.

So this is an interview with Um Ramadan, we met her at a

demonstration outside the District Court in Jerusalem.

And, alongside other mothers, she was protesting her son's

imprisonment. It's a really moving interview, she talks

about the conditions her son is kept in ,and how different

mothers are organising together to support each other. And I

just want to flag that there are references to suicide and abuse.

So for a bit of context the East Jerusalem neighbourhood of

Sheikh Jarrah has been an important part of the struggle

against colonisation in Palestine, the residents of

Sheikh Jarrah are refugees, or descendants of refugees, who

were forced from their homes by the ethnic cleansing carried out

by Zionist forces in 1947 to 1949, this ethnic cleansing is

known by Palestinians as the Nakba, or catastrophe. After

1948, East Jerusalem was under Jordanian control, and the

Jordanian government struck a deal through the United Nations

to settle Palestinian refugee families who were living in

Jordan in Sheikh Jarrah. And then in 1967, the Israeli

military occupied East Jerusalem, and since then, the

Israeli state and settler movements have been trying to

evict the Palestinian residents, both through legal processes and

by violence. Many families have already been forcibly evicted

from the neighbourhood and replaced by settlers. The

community has resisted fiercely, you know, by holding sit-ins

outside threatened homes, by mobilising international

solidarity, and just building you know, a general culture of

solidarity.

In 2020, the Israeli courts ordered the eviction of more

families from Sheikh Jarrah, and in 2021 the harassment and

violence against people in Sheikh Jarrah helped trigger an

uprising across Palestine. So yeah, we just wanted to give

this context that it's a real hotbed of struggle. And then in

2022, right wing politician, Ben Gvir, the Minister of National

Security led a mass of settlers to the neighbourhood, backed up

by police. The settlers attacked the community as the police

looked on. And Ben Gvir famously shot his gun in the air that day

as Palestinians defended themselves by throwing stones.

These kinds of like provocations are routine, and that's the

context that lead to Um Ramadan's son's arrest.

We'd really like to apologise about the sound quality of the

interview. It was kind of like an impromptu thing, and we

didn't have our proper recording equipment with us. We just had

to use phones. But we really felt it was important to share

her story and share her son's story. I want to say a big thank

you to Noah for translating for us and once again, please find

all the resources in the show notes

[Speaks Arabic]

Today we had a demonstration against the arrest

of the Palestinian children by the Israeli court.

[Speaks Arabic]

We went to tell the Israeli courts that what they're

doing with our children is not justice.

We are the ones who are being attacked [Um

Ramadan speaks Arabic], the people who attacked us have been

set free

[Speaks Arabic]

And we demand that justice should see with

both eyes and not just one eye

[Speaks Arabic]

They're saying that that if things continue

like this, there will be a popular uprising. Because

they're not being respected by the Israeli authorities.

[Speaks Arabic]

The settlers are coming here and throwing

rocks on their cars and their houses, and how are they

supposed to defend themselves?

[Speaks Arabic]

The police and the military were here and they

just did nothing. [Um Ramadan speaks Arabic]. So her son saw

that there were throwing rocks on them, and he went out into

the street [Um Ramadan speaks Arabic].

[Speaks Arabic]

So so her son, by himself, went out into the

streets and was arrested while 50 people at least were throwing

rocks on her house, and they were not arrested.

[Speaks Arabic].

Okay, so now the Israeli courts are demanding

five to eight years imprisonment, which she says is

completely unprecedented.

[Speaks Arabic].

Why is this happening? She says, because the

[Speaks Arabic].

extremists are now the ones who are running the Israeli justice

system. And as you know, we were just talking about Ben Gvir, who

set up his parliamentary office right here and is now going to

be the Minister of Internal Defence.

[Speaks Arabic].

So her son went through a terrible series

of events after he was arrested. He was taken to small cells -

very small – where, where he was basically tortured. They didn't

let him sleep, they hit him. She said that he told her things,

you know, she couldn't imagine spending even one day like that

but he spent – [how many days?] - 29 days.

Okay, so he's been in prison now for 11

months, and out of that, 29 days were in these these, these small

like, you know, cells- like a holding cell which is basically

torture.

[Speaks Arabic].

And he also tried to commit suicide.

[Speaks Arabic].

She is saying that this is the same thing

[that] happened to everybody [who] was arrested in this area.

And then then I said how many people are we talking about? So

Well they're six from this neighborhood, but if you

start looking at the nearby neighborhoods as well, then it's

it's probably much more.

[Speaks Arabic].

How many people live in the neighborhood?Second speaker:

First of all, one day, one day it was four of my son[s] [that

Now they're a little bit better

were] in the jail. Four, in jail [how many people?], about 200.

[Nicole - and what are the conditions like in prison]?

They’re allowed to visit him. But for those 29 days when he

was in a holding cell, they couldn't see him.

She says that her son has changed because of

these 29 days that he spent - during which they don't really

know what happened to him. It's clear that he was not given

enough, enough food to eat, and that he was beaten, and didn't

have the ability to sleep. And now that she can see him she

makes sure to know every single day what it is that's been

happening to him so that she can, you know, somehow try to

control this.

[Speaks Arabic].

She says if they can see the brutality of

the Israeli police and soldiers here, right in front of the

house. But when they're by themselves in an area - which

isn’t accessible to everybody - she can only you know, she can’t

imagine what it is that they actually do.

[Speaks Arabic].

Okay, so he says, one of the things that he

knows that happened, is that his son was was made to sit with his

hands tied behind his back and his eyes covered for about 14

hours. And then he was taken to see a judge with his eyes still

covered and then somebody said:

Oh, but he hasn't eaten. So they

covered and then somebody said:

gave him like, you know, nice food to eat. And then just as he

covered and then somebody said:

was just about to begin eating, they kicked away the table with

covered and then somebody said:

all the food.

How old are all the children?

Now he is 15 years old?

15

[Speaks Arabic].

Her son was sentenced to 30 months in prison

for throwing rocks.

[Speaks Arabic].

Meanwhile, the settlers who were here throwing

rocks were - were not even arrested. I was here at one of

these events, they were throwing rocks for about 5 hours.

[Speaks Arabic].

Her son just celebrated his 18th birthday in

prison.

[Speaks Arabic].

And on the 26th of the month her son will

be twenty in jail.

[Speaks Arabic].

She's going to throw a party in prison.

How are they organising together, the mothers?

[Speaks Arabic].

[Speaks Arabic].

They meet together, they talk together

they go visit their children together, they have a WhatsApp

group.

[Speaks Arabic].

they have the same pains but still

a little confused I've seen that whole ad for has

And they have the same pains. They have good

relations because they understand each other's

feelings.

[Speaks Arabic].

Okay yeah there is a bigger group that involves

women - mothers from different neighborhoods. And this larger

group, they visit together, I think they might have to

coordinate their visiting hours. So there is some kind of contact

- you know the split between different Palestinian

neighborhoods inside Jerusalem is quite strong, and it's you

know, one of the characteristics of the occupation.

She is saying that in this country, there are no rights for

Palestinian children or women. And they saw on television how a

four year old was either arrested or actually was being

summoned to the police station. He given a summons… for a four

year old. So there is no rights.

His father when he [went to the] police station

he take bamba with him - because he's a child.

And are the prisoners able to organize when they're in

prison? Can they organize together?

[Speaks Arabic].

[Speaks Arabic].

According to what her son says yes, they have some

kind of organisation.

[Speaks Arabic].

She's saying that even if he has some kind of

organization, it's still prison.

Are there things that people - that comrades - can do

outside of Palestine in solidarity?

[Speaks Arabic].

[Speaks Arabic].

She's saying this - the occupation is claiming that

it's a democratic country. And you who have now seen the

reality - and you see sometimes pictures... And she's talking

about a specific case. Where an older man was beaten in Al-Aqsa

for no reason by a policeman. So, she would like these

pictures to be spread, and the stories about - you know - the

truth of what is happening to be, you know, well known.

Is there anything else you would like to share

[Speaks Arabic].

[Speaks Arabic].

They demand that their human rights be respected

and you know, take shape in you know reality here.

When will their children be sentenced?

[Speaks Arabic].

Her son will be sentenced on the eighth of

January

[Speaks Arabic].

And they're asking for five to eight years in

prison.

[Speaks Arabic].

So now he's 20, and he might be out when he's 28.

[Speaks Arabic].

She’s saying, you know when he went in he was, you

know, just a child playing in the neighborhood and now he's

gonna come out and he's gonna be like you know a middle aged man.

And she has no idea what, you know, what he's going to have in

his head when he comes out.

[Speaks Arabic].

She’s saying, you know when he went in he was, you

know, just a child playing in the neighborhood and now he's

gonna come out and he's gonna be like you know a middle aged man.

And she has no idea what, you know, what he's going to have in

his head when he comes out.

[Speaks Arabic].

Maybe now he's making plans, but she has no

idea what he's making plans for.

[Speaks Arabic].

Maybe now he's making plans. And she has no

idea what he's making plans for.

thank you so much. We hope for freedom for all of them, all

of the prisoners