“I want to die as fit as possible”

Philip Dyer decided to do something unique, he chose to end with the start in mind. When he retired from competitive Karate while he was still in his 20s, his commitment to personal well-being and his pursuit of excellence were only just beginning.

Business psychologist and Executive Coach, Hazel Showell discovers how accepting his limitations at 20 leads Philip to even more of life’s experiences. You’ll hear the lessons Philip learnt from being a Karate champion at 17, and how they shaped his approach to the challenges that life would bring him. You’ll learn how to know if it’s the right time for an ending. 

If you want to understand the ways you can find acceptance, then Hazel has the perfect thing for you. Click here to find Hazel’s acceptance worksheet, which you can access on her website: justhazel.co.uk. 

You can check out Hazel’s accompanying blog for her episode with Phillip here.

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[00:00:29] Hazel: Welcome to [00:00:30] Endings.

[00:00:36] Hazel: In this episode, I'm speaking to Philip Dyer. Philip is a highly experienced business mentor and coach, and provides guidance to business owners on being healthy leaders in particular. In 1977, Philip was the British karate champion and since then he's never lost his competitive edge and he still prioritizes his physical wellness.[00:01:00]

[00:01:04] Hazel: Through this Philip learned the values from karate that he still carries. with him to this day. We'll come back to that later. First, let's go back to the beginning.

[00:01:37] Philip: My father was present, so he would actually come along to make sure I was there.

[00:02:02] Hazel: Philip was so good, in fact, that he quickly began to excel and found his competitive streak.

[00:02:29] Philip: I think it was my [00:02:30] second competition. I actually came third. And it was against adults as well as juniors that I was, that I was competing against. And I just thought, this is for me, I just love the competition. I dreamt karate, I did karate, practiced karate, thought about karate, just lived for karate really. And school was an inconvenience.

[00:03:02] Philip: The first time that I won the Junior British Championship, I was 17. It's not a good combination being 17 and very good at a martial art, because I was arrogant as well.

[00:03:21] Hazel: Finally, a moment came when Philip decided to leave karate. It started a business and had a family. But then something else [00:03:30] happened that told him it was time.

[00:04:03] Philip: And so I, I made a, a conscious decision to actually, a, a word that I try and avoid, retire from Karate

[00:04:14] Philip: At 37, yeah. And, uh, rather than continuing to do it and caused myself some damage, but I, I gave myself three years. So I thought by the time I get to 40, I'll have stopped doing karate. And, um, most of the people around me that [00:04:30] knew me very well said, it's not gonna happen.

[00:04:56] Hazel: I was going to say, how did that go down?

[00:05:24] Philip: You know, I couldn't continue to teach if I wasn't actually practicing the art itself. So I had to let go [00:05:30] of everything. So the teaching, the practice, and uh, what I turned my attention to trying to find something to compete in that would test me and struggled like hell. I sort of stumbled into this rather than trying to fill a void.

[00:06:01] Hazel: So how did you go about that?

[00:06:59] Hazel: Ooh, ego [00:07:00] kick.

[00:07:41] Hazel: I love the aim for average on this.

[00:08:11] Philip: And so I came home and I said to my wife, I'm going to, I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for the, the, the rowing bit. And I did and I won it.. And so rowing started to dominate my life.

[00:08:29] Philip: [00:08:30] Exactly, exactly it. Well, I think the humorous bit is it's, it's serendipity. So I was, I was on a rower a bit and I'd never used one before. Then an actual rower, somebody that was accustomed to water rowing, saw me rowing and said, Try this. And then a guy who became my coach and close friend and mentor, his name's Tony Bithell. Tony was brilliant. He came up to me in the competition and said, well done on winning. Have you ever thought of entering a Concept2 2K race? [00:09:00] What's Concept2? That's the machine I was on. And what's the race? He said, oh, there's races all over the world. It's an international sport. And that was, That was just like, open the floodgates.

[00:09:14] Philip: Exactly. And 20 years I did, virtually 20 years

[00:09:31] Philip: I still use the rower. I, I Let's do that again. I retired from competitive indoor rowing.. When, when I turned 60 because, and the primary reason is 'cause it's so hard.

[00:09:54] Hazel: So you, this time when you just set yourself, 'cause it sounds like there's an age [00:10:00] target. The first time with karate, because that was. 40. So when you decided by 60, we're going to stop rowing. How did that feel compared to the first time?

[00:10:49] Philip: It's really important to understand what defines your values in life. Rowing satisfied an aspect of my [00:11:00] character, which is the competitiveness and the desire to keep fit. But karate was a completely different thing and continues to be so. So even though I don't do karate, I think of karate and martial arts and discipline and respect. All of those things are still wrapped around the values which I live my daily life by.

[00:11:33] Philip: Well, I had something waiting in the wings.

[00:11:40] Philip: That's archery.

Hazel: Okay, how come archery?

[00:12:17] Hazel: I love that most people might turn to like, you know, cryptic crosswords and when, when I hit 60, I'll do some crosswords not, Oh, when I'm sick, I'll do some archery.

[00:12:30] Philip: the beauty is. You can always improve physically as you get older. So there's things that you can't do. Like if you could run a hundred meters in ten seconds, which is absolutely brilliant, you might run a hundred meters slower, but you can still run a hundred meters. You can improve. If you have an injury, you can adapt and do something else.

[00:13:12] Philip: And I'd said, uh, so what's this event called? And it was about wellbeing. So why did you all use the lift to get to the second floor when there's a decent set of stairs? And it's because almost by default, people will choose the easiest route. and [00:13:30] limit their own physical activity. Well, I think find a way of using your body right up until you, you're about to shuffle off your mortal coil. None of us are going to get out of this alive. You might as well be healthy while you're going.

[00:14:11] Philip: Yeah, yeah. You can't stop the process of getting older, so that's a chronological thing. You can affect how well you get older and make some good choices, or you can make choices which are actually counterproductive to your well being. So [00:14:30] the discipline, I exercise four times a week, that's non negotiable exercise. And quite intensive and it has to happen because it's part of my well being mentally and physically parking that saying, I'm looking forward to a sensory lifestyle. I don't think it's personally, I don't think it's a starter at all. And it's just a. uh, hiding to no good whatsoever in terms of your well being.

[00:15:09] Philip: For the process of it, I mean, because I was reflecting on, on this conversation. I'm always, people will always hear me saying, think about what you want, not what you don't want. That's really important. And, I was in my reflection, I was thinking about my mother and my mother was obese. And [00:15:30] had type 2 diabetes and had some significant operations, which I won't go into detail because they're not pleasant. And it would be very, it would be easier for me to say, I don't want that. So I don't want to, I don't want to gain that level of weight. I don't want to get type 2 diabetes because it's a predisposition within my family. Because of what can occur when you have type 2 diabetes, but so that's not my point of focus. It's not, [00:16:00] not the, I don't want that. What I want is the, the, the mission, which I set out 20, 25 years ago, which is to die as fit as possible.

[00:16:33] Hazel: I like the fact that you distinguish between those habits and choices so that it isn't the, I've got to push myself towards something. It's more that image is so strong, so powerful, it pulls you towards it. So it's a, it's a different type of effort and energy. I'm hearing the difference in how you talk about it. I'd just choose it

[00:17:01] Philip: And, um, I can remember when I was preparing for competitions, when you commit to competitions, I'm committed. And, uh, turning up at a gym to do a session, I was sitting in the car in the car park, trying to crank myself up before going in and coming out with all sorts of weird and wonderful. Yeah. Quotes and chants and whatever, anything, whatever, whatever it is to get yourself wired up. And that can be the [00:17:30] downside of competition is that even when you don't feel, you really don't feel like it, you've got to do it because you can't train twice as hard the following day. It doesn't work like that. You've got to train consistency is really important. So if you miss your training session, you've missed it.

[00:18:09] Philip: During competition time, it was carved in granite. Five times a week is gonna happen, and that's the end of it.

[00:18:21] Philip: I, well, I don't really understand why it wouldn't, why it would be such a challenge, because

[00:18:30] Philip: your lazy mind. No, uh, perhaps to a fault. Money has, has not been the ultimate motivator for me. Okay. Uh, so if I could work longer and make more money, I never did it. There's an amount of money, which is sufficient. And even when I was trying to build an organization, there's a cutoff. Uh, have had a family and young [00:19:00] family as they were growing up. I attended. everything that they did at school. So I never missed a single thing, but the primary reason was that part of the motivation, not the primary reason was that my father attended nothing. So for me, he was an absent father, an influential father, but an absent father. I've got three children. I went to all the sports days, all the parents evenings, didn't miss a thing.

[00:20:06] Hazel: It's one of the conversations I have with many people about what, what might you regret at the end of your life?

[00:20:33] Philip: Yeah, there was, there was a person that shall remain nameless, but there was a, there was the managing director of a, of a sizable business said he would introduce me to his, his Northwest sales team, uh, over a few beers. Well, that's a turn off for me straight away. So, cause I'm not, I'm not a big drinker. I don't like that type of environment. And I said, when, when he told me, I said, Oh, it's parents evening. Pause. You're [00:21:00] telling me you'd miss an opportunity to be with my sales team.

[00:21:06] Philip: And my response was, uh, yeah, yeah, exactly that. And so he sacked me off as a supplier to his business. I spoke to him recently. So within the past year and I've, I've not seen him or heard from him for 25 years and married and divorced. [00:21:30] And I just thought, yeah, your focus on work was excessive in my opinion, from my lifestyle, my values. But that's why I said, don't feel guilty. You just do what you want to do. You make your choices, but don't impose somebody else's values onto you if they don't fit. It's just being respectful. You know, so the choice between looking after myself physically, competing, [00:22:00] everything had to fit. And so that means something has to give, you can't have everything.

[00:22:13] Hazel: So it shows you're able to mellow that competitive spirit a little bit, if you, if you're balancing. And I, I like the, the theme that's emerging of finding a way that you balance life, but it's always in line with your values.

[00:22:50] Hazel: Yes. More time spending talking about governance.

[00:23:27] Philip: The other day when I was doing a [00:23:30] presentation, I asked three questions if I can get a live audience in front of me. And three questions. How many of you know of somebody using alcohol to cope with the working week? How many of you know of somebody using antidepressants and how many of you know of somebody that is stressed frequently, where at least once or twice a week, they're uncomfortable. And the number out of a hundred people, it's, it started out around about 45 percent on alcohol, about [00:24:00] 65, 70 percent with antidepressants and at least 80 percent of the audience about stress. That's not good.

[00:24:39] Hazel: My final question is actually what we started to talk about, which is, you know, what does your future look like now? So as you head towards 70, so what's the, what's that next few years ahead going to be like? And then any final advice you've got for. people who want to be as healthy as you're intending to die. I'm hoping that's [00:25:00] by the way in many, many decades to come.

[00:25:52] Hazel: I was going to say, so the whole, you know, you're not quite.

[00:26:00] Hazel: Oh, that's phenomenal, isn't

[00:26:35] Philip: And they're using their limitations to overlay on you. You set your own expectations. and believe in yourself and going forward. You don't have to be, you don't have to climb Mount Everest. You can walk up the nearest hill to your house. Just be your own extraordinary, but set your own expectations. Don't let somebody set the limits and boundaries for you.

[00:27:04] Philip: Thank you very much for asking me, Hazel.

[00:27:39] Hazel: And there's a tool I find really useful that I'll be sharing as part of the worksheet for this episode. Because the starting point is simply to understand, do I stay or do I go? And the way to do that. is through one of my favorite tools. I use it in other episodes, which is called the Tetralemma. [00:28:00] And this essentially is a very old wisdom, initially Buddhist, absolutely verified with modern neuroscience.

[00:28:33] Hazel: And then you form a cross by drawing a vertical line. down the middle of the page. At the top of that, you write the word both. At the bottom, you write the word neither. So what we've essentially done is taken a binary choice, i. e. a dilemma, and we've made it a tetralemma. Four questions to ask yourself that are all intention.

[00:29:15] Hazel: So, well, let's try it. If you draw, you'll stay, go, both, neither. Let's now try how to use it. Now, the way to use this is in the nicest way to get out of your head. [00:29:30] It's not trying to think through the problem. As I. Repeat many times to people, our conscious minds can only deal with five to nine bits of concrete information. Whereas our unconscious mind, it can deal with 8 million. So let it, let it do its job. And by relaxing and tuning into your body, that's how your unconscious can speak to you. So if you relax, both feet on the floor, grounded, and put your hand on the word, stay. [00:30:00] The idea, I will continue in this career with whatever that takes, the costs and the benefits.

[00:30:57] Hazel: Stopping this being an ending of this [00:31:00] and by tuning into how it feels Often you can start to then notice the difference like oh, hang on So the idea of staying I felt tired and heavy and sad that the idea of going I felt light Energized excited and sad. It's okay. It could be complex That's typical, but then you move to the word both and you tune in. What do I feel there? What do I notice? Because what you [00:31:30] notice could be, actually, there's no energy. In which case, well, then my decision is very clear. I must stay or I must go. But if there's energy in both, it's like, hang on, what might a both option be? How do I both stay and go? Do I stay in the same company but do a different role?

[00:32:14] Hazel: Or can I keep enough of what I have? For it to feel good and you're just figuring out and be okay that if there's energy in the both space You may not know what that answer looks like yet. You just know that is the answer to find what is the [00:32:30] compromise? What is the balance point between stay and go and then finally you double check with putting your hands on the word Neither. Now, really, there should be no energy here, because no energy in neither tells you the right question is on the board. But if there is, if there's a bit of, that's something weird, feeling a bit of something, don't know what that is. Almost you need that wild card answer, the fifth element you hadn't thought about. And so, you [00:33:00] can just put a marker, you can put a post it note with a big question mark on your tetralemma to say, there is something else I haven't considered. There's a different decision to make, perhaps. Maybe one I'm not ready to think about. Or maybe, if I let my mind relax, it will come to me. What is the actual question I need to answer?

[00:33:42] Hazel: And believe me, again, really low tech, it's a great option for deciding, so if I definitely need to go, where do I go to? What do I do? How do I use my strengths? How do I build on them for? And this can be an interesting combination between the two. By making the clear [00:34:00] decision, I have to go, and then what do I go to?

[00:34:27] Hazel: But it can help if you're having to make [00:34:30] big decisions about changing your career. And I won't ask for your details to get it. If you need it, you can have it. You can click on the link in the show notes to download the worksheet now. And finally, if you know somebody who might benefit from hearing about ending the career you love.