Jennifer, a designer and entrepreneur, is passionate about creating personalized, functional, and beautiful designs that inspire others to reclaim their spaces. Courtney, a therapist and coach, has spent nearly two decades helping individuals and families grow personally and professionally.

In this episode...

With over 20 years of combined experience in design and mental health, Jennifer Harris and Courtney Huckabay offer a unique approach to understanding the relationship between people and their spaces.

Together, they explore how mindset and psychology influence our connection to material possessions, offering practical strategies to transform spaces into reflections of balance and purpose.

Welcome to the Power

of Authority Spotlight.

2

I'm your host, Michelle Prince, founder

and CEO of Performance Publishing Group,

3

making a difference one story at a time.

4

We'll be shining the light on successful

founders, entrepreneurs, business

5

owners and leaders that are getting

results and making a difference.

6

We'll talk about how they built

their businesses, are creating

7

movements and leveraging the power

of authority in their own lives.

8

Be sure to stick around to the

end of the show and we'll reveal

9

how you can be our next guest.

10

Let's get started.

11

Hey everybody and welcome to the

Power of Authority Spotlight where

12

we shine the light on entrepreneurs,

business owners, leaders, and people

13

that are doing extraordinary things.

14

They're they're following their

passion, they're living with purpose,

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and they're making a difference.

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And I cannot wait to

introduce you to two guests.

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Today, but first this episode is brought

to you by performance publishing.

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If you've ever thought about

writing a book, you can do it.

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It is not as hard as you think.

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You just got to get that, all of

that out of your head onto paper and

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we can help go get a free strategy

call at performance publishing group.

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com.

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That's performance publishing group.

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com.

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Well, let me introduce you

to my two guests today.

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First is Jennifer Harris.

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Jennifer is a mom, designer, entrepreneur,

and recovering maximalist with over

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20 years of experience designing

interiors, products, and graphics.

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Her passion for problem solving and

organization drives her to create

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personalized solutions that blend

functionality with aesthetic appeal.

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She hopes her story and ideas will

inspire others to reclaim the functional

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design of their personal real estate.

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And then we also have Courtney Huckabee,

who is a mom, therapist, trainer,

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supervisor, coach, and entrepreneur.

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She founded and led her professional

mental health group practice and has been

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a therapist for over 18 years, working

with families, children, and parents.

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Her passion in life is helping people

grow personally and professionally,

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though her first love remains her family.

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Jennifer Courtney, welcome to the show.

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Hello.

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for having us.

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I'm so excited to have you both on because

I've had the privilege of getting to

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see you bring this baby to life, which

is your new book, which just came out.

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Just launched here recently called

reframe and reclaim, but tell

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everyone a little bit more about

the book and how it came to be.

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Yeah.

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So the origin story of reframe and reclaim

really started about three years ago in

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the fall of 2021, when I started noticing

patterns within my own family and how

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we, our relationship with our belongings.

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And I noticed these

patterns were generational.

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So from my grandparents to my mom, and.

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For my family.

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So my history is I have a

lot of sentimentality when

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it comes to belongings.

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So both my grandfathers passed

away when I was nine years old.

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My father passed away when I was, was 15.

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And so for me, this book really started as

evaluating my sentimentality around these

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items and how I put so much emphasis.

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on these sentimental items around

my loved ones who had passed away.

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So that started me thinking and I

reached out to Courtney, who's a mental

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health professional, and we just started

having conversations about why do I

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do these things or people in general,

why they do these things and why they

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have You know, have the self identity

and this emphasis on their belongings.

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And so we had these conversations

and it kind of morphed into,

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Hey, you want to write a book?

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Like, I think this could be

really helpful for people.

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So the way the book is formatted

is it starts out with me sharing

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my personal journey and my stories

about how I've used certain excuses

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or how I have not let go of.

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So I really don't need any more.

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They're not serving a purpose in my home.

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Some are even not, some

are even negative feelings.

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You know, I keep the item, but it has

a real negative connotation to it.

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So why am I keeping these items?

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So this book is really the story of my

journey and journey of other clients.

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We have helped and how we're able to

let go of items that aren't serving

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us in our current life chapter.

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I think this is huge because so many

people, and I can relate, I won't,

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I'll tell you more of my stories

because, but I totally get it, and you

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don't want to throw away something,

especially if somebody's passed away,

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but what is the psychology behind that?

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You know, Courtney, why do we do this?

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Why do we hold on?

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Well, there, there's so much behind this.

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And so, you know, it's not a simple,

Oh, this is why, you know, and so

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really we learn a lot about how we do

life and about our, our identities,

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how we connect with others through

what we see other people doing.

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And so, one of the things that

Jennifer and I really found is it's.

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Really generational for her.

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There was a lot of, well, my mom kept

things and my grandfather kept things.

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And so I just know that you keep

things, but we actually go through many

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different excuses or justifications

of why we hold on to things or why we

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acquire things in the book and it's

laid out like that in the chapters.

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And so there's different

justifications and each justification

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is highlighted by each chapter.

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Yeah, you mentioned the word generations

and I'm curious if there's any connection

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to my grandmother was and, you know,

came in the World War Two kind of the or

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actually she was in the Great Depression.

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And I know I remember as a little girl she

would even save and reuse paper towels.

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Long after she had, they

had plenty of money, right?

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But there was, so is that maybe what

some of this generational, like they,

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they, they didn't have anything.

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So they kept everything.

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And then the next generation is

like, well, if my mom kept it,

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maybe we should care, kept keep it.

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And then the green, it

just goes on and on and on.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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That's definitely a part of that.

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And I think what's so hard

is, you know, we also create

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habits in our life, you know?

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So maybe my habit is I collect these

things or, you know, I try to find

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Things that are valuable or keep

things that could be worth value.

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And I keep that habit until it

doesn't serve me anymore, or I realize

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it's not really helpful for me.

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So we really do try to explore and

unpack lots of different psychologies

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around our identities and our habits

and our connections with our things.

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One of the things I really love

about the book is you have a

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collection of case studies.

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And you know, to really paint

the picture of what, what,

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what this really looks like.

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Do you mind sharing a couple

of those or some, give us some

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ideas of what's really going on.

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So like Jen said, a lot of it

starts with her own Like history

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and, and sharing her story.

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And then we try to find people who

would be willing to let us try some

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of our ideas with our reclaim process.

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We have a seven step process that

we've identified, we formulated, and

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we thought this would be really good.

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And so we asked for volunteers to

open up their homes and let us come

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in and step in and being a counselor,

you know, a little bit about.

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My theory of working with people is not

to say, this is how you got to do it.

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Let me show you.

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I'm the expert, but really having

it client led and what's different

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about this book and some other books

that might be out there is we don't

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come in and do for the person we

actually have them tell us what to do.

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What they need.

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And so we go through the seven, seven

steps and we ask them the questions

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along the way and trying to find

out what they hope their function

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of their design of their space.

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What has, what is one of the challenges

that they're facing when it comes to

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their space, and we actually let them

make the decisions as we decide one

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thing versus another is this a keep,

or is this a donate, or is this a give

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Give to somebody else who might be, um,

wanting this or conserve them as well.

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I would love for you to

take us through those seven.

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And so people can write them down too.

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So, and I know you've touched on it,

but just step, what is number one?

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Number one is reflect.

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Okay.

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We want to make sure that the reflecting

on how the space is currently used,

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what is in their space, how their space

feels when they're in their space.

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We also wanted them to ask, like,

what they want their space to be.

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Okay.

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As well.

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So maybe one way and what is, what is

the hope that they want at the end?

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Okay.

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So reflect, stop, you know, really

evaluate basically what you want.

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What's number two?

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Well, that leads us into

E, which is evaluate.

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So, okay.

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Or I, I'm sorry.

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So you, I said seven step,

but it is the acronym.

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It is reclaim.

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Yes.

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Right.

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So R is reflect E is evaluate, evaluate.

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And so the evaluate step really is getting

to the root of why you were holding on

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to this item and what it's giving you.

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And so.

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For so how it's like Courtney was saying

how it's broken up in the book is by

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the different excuses we tell ourselves.

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And so someone who keeps something

because of sentimental versus someone

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who's keeping an item because it's, you

know, might be worth something someday.

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Or, you know, I might use it one day

because The whole great depression

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mentality is going to, we're going

to ask different questions based on

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those excuses so that we can really

get to the root of the problem.

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Love that.

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So ease, evaluate and what's next.

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So after we do that, we're

going to make sure that we

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clean and clear out the space.

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So it's really hard to see how the space

can be without how everything already is.

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And that's really just like taking

everything out, clearing out the space

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and seeing it for what it could be and

really letting your mind get creative and

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evaluating what you would like it to be.

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I like that.

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Okay.

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Clean.

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And also thinking about how you feel

when it's clean and empty, because

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you may look at it and be like, Oh,

I didn't know it could feel this way.

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I really don't want to put all

this stuff back into it because

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I feel good seeing empty.

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This is so fascinating to me.

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I really, it is.

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It's just the connection between the two.

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So anyway, we'll keep going

because I know everyone wants

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to continue to what they are.

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What is L?

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L is layout.

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And so this is as you, before you

put the room back together, really

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thinking about the things that you

reflected on in the evaluate process,

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or evaluate step, I should say.

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Is what you want to put back in and how

this room needs to function for yourself.

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So whether it's sketching out like

this is where I want furniture to go,

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or in my pantry, you know I snacks

are what I always go to so I need that

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at eye level so I can grab it quickly

and put the heavier items down low.

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So, you know, thinking about how you the

functionality of it for your everyday

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use laying out to that specification.

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And then.

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Will you go into the next ? Right.

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And then we go into, next, we

go into a, which is so as, yeah.

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So as we create like a blueprint,

you know, it might be a sketch, it

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might be like, you know, measuring

off and putting some, some things

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to show where things would go.

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We actually start to assemble

and we say what is priority?

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What is something that, if this is to

function and feel as you had imagined.

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What has to go back in and we start

there and we start to assemble

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and see, okay, how does this feel?

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Now you see this in the space.

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Now that you have this in the

space, do we need to adjust anything

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in the, as we're putting it back

into the actual physical space?

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So good.

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So good.

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All right.

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And then our reason to I, so

the I in reclaim is inspect,

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and this is really, important.

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It's a step that I don't think a lot

of people take into consideration

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and really give it enough value.

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You want to take a step back, look

at the space and say, is this really

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going to function how I want it to?

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And it's okay if it doesn't.

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So if you take a step back and you're

like, you know, I really need this item.

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More eye level, or this item

really should go in another room.

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So I can fit the things I

need in this space here.

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That's where you do that in this step and

just take that final gut check to make

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sure it's going to function how you want.

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Okay.

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So smart.

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Yes.

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And then the final what's M so M.

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Is the hardest and the

longest step of the process.

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And this is maintained.

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So, um, a lot of times we see, we take

a few hours, a couple of days, and

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we create a space and then we live

in the space and we use the space.

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And this is where a lot of times, um,

the space no longer is functioning

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the way we started or intended.

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So this is really looking at

what steps do I need to take?

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Who do I need to also bring into this?

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And create expectations for this space

so that it does continue to function

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and feel the way it does right now.

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Wow.

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How did you two come up with this?

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I know you talked in the book and I,

and I had a little bit of a, you know,

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insider view on this, but really how did,

how did you come up with that framework?

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It's really very interesting.

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It's not just clever, but

it's very functional and it

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makes a ton of sense to me.

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Yes.

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Well, it was, it was really looking

at, I feel like people, whenever they,

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this is going to be a generalization,

but when people look at design shows

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or organizational shows, or when they

want to go and organize something,

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they think it's one and done.

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It's like, I'm going to buy these bins.

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I'm going to put it in here.

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It's going to be beautiful.

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And I never have to touch it again.

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But like, so.

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Not like that, right?

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Our life changes.

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I mean, if I say like, if I could know

which snack my kid is going to have

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as their favorite, you know, from week

to week, that would be a huge help.

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But if they want something

that's two inches wide compared

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to one inch wide, that's going

to vary my space in my pantry.

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Right.

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And so being able to be flexible.

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And understand that you will have

to come back to it and make it work

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for you is a really important step.

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And I think, you know, about 70 to

80 percent of a system will continue

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to work, but we need to have the

about 20 percent that stays flexible

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for just changing lifestyles.

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Very good.

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So yeah, go ahead.

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Well, and I was going to mention

with that too, is the maintaining

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is not that this space has to

continue to function this way.

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And that's the coming back to reflecting

again, if you know, the kids are in

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diapers and now the kids aren't in diapers

or the kids like this snack and don't

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like this snack, or I have an office.

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Now I don't need a home office,

or I have this hobby and

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now I don't have that hobby.

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We can really come back to you.

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Coming back to this again, the next

year or three years from now, and it's

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something that is always evolving and

a living process is what it really is.

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So the people that you, who volunteered,

you went into their homes, give me an

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example of what happened as you took

them through this seven step process.

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Let me take that Jen, or

do you want to take that?

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So we, we all, as we were

writing this book, some of our

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friends and family knew about it.

297

And we talked to some other people

who might be interested and we just

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asked, Hey, we're writing a book.

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Would you be comfortable for us coming

in one of our clients out of necessity?

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She's like, I'm moving.

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I have this.

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and I've got to figure out

what to do with all this stuff.

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I haven't seen this stuff in years.

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I don't want to do this, but I know

if you're offering help, I need help.

305

And so we actually started the day

and did some you know pre interview,

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which is in, in the book as well.

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And how are you feeling, you know,

what are your hopes for this time you

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know what's kept you kept you from not

starting this process before whether

309

it's for you and really just getting

to know the client where they're at.

310

And reassuring that we're not

here to force you to get rid of

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things or to throw things away.

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Really, we just want to help

you find better function.

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And this client was telling us she had

avoided this space for over six years

314

because she just knew it was going to

take too much time and too much effort.

315

And by the end of the day, we

finished everything in one day.

316

She had donated more than

a car full of things.

317

She, Was so thankful that

we went through this.

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She was excited about her

move because she was moving.

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She felt like she had found things that

she didn't know she had lost or misplaced.

320

And she found things that she realized,

I don't know why I was keeping this.

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Like, what was I thinking?

322

So there is a lot of change

in six years for this client.

323

And our hope for this book

is not to become minimalist.

324

It's just really finding what

functions and what feels good for you.

325

I love that because it's not

just about functionality.

326

It is also about the feeling part of it.

327

And if it really means

something to you, right.

328

It brings you joy and, you know,

and not, you know, then, then

329

keep it and find a place for it.

330

But let me give you a scenario

and you tell me if, how you would,

331

how you would approach this.

332

So let's just use the

moving example again, right?

333

So somebody is moving and they've pulled

out all the things, like, let's just say

334

the attic or the storage shed or whatever.

335

And they realize that they have,

have all of the pictures and all the

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memorabilia of somebody who has passed

mom, dad, grandma, whoever it is.

337

What do you do with that stuff?

338

It's from this generation.

339

They can't use it.

340

But there's this guilt tied

to, but I can't throw it away.

341

It was mom.

342

So I, I have become an expert in this

area because this is a lot, right?

343

So for me, I had to really

look at what do I value?

344

And it wasn't like, you know,

I had to look at it as, as

345

like very almost existential.

346

Like if my house burned down and I

lost everything, what do I truly value?

347

What do I want?

348

And what would I be heartbroken if I lost?

349

And so it was really the family photos.

350

And I thought about it though.

351

And I was like, well, all my family photos

are stored in boxes and albums, like at

352

the bottom of my entertainment center.

353

And if there was a fire,

could I easily go grab those?

354

Could I save those?

355

You know, is it in a place?

356

Where if I truly value it, I can get it.

357

And so for me, I took a step back and I

digitized all my really important photos.

358

It did, it was a process and

took some time, but I was

359

able to digitize the photos.

360

Any objects that were really

sentimental to me, I took photos

361

of, I bought a light box, Courtney

was there, we have it on video.

362

We had a weekend of it.

363

Yes.

364

And you know, I just talked through

the items and why this is important

365

and why I wanted to keep it.

366

So I was able to take photos of it

and then I could easily let it go.

367

And you know, if I'm honest with

myself, Am I going to go back and

368

look at some of these sentimental

items like my childhood toys?

369

Maybe not.

370

Probably not.

371

But for me, it stored on an

external hard drive that I keep in

372

my fireproof and waterproof safe.

373

So I know it's safe and I can go

access that whenever I want to.

374

And whenever I want to, you

know, revisit those memories.

375

Wow.

376

That is awesome advice.

377

And I have to tell you, selfishly, I asked

the question because we are getting ready

378

to move and we cleaned out a storage shed

and it has, and my husband's mother has

379

passed his grandmother, his grandfather,

and a great uncle that we took care

380

of, you know, up until their last days.

381

And so to have all of this important

stuff, That was so important in their

382

lives and yet it's nothing that we access

or do anything but that that feeling

383

the guilt that there is a psychological.

384

Right.

385

Well, we can't get rid of it.

386

Right.

387

And so I feel like you just, first

of all, kind of released me from this

388

like there is, there is an answer.

389

And in all the years

we've lived in this house.

390

They were in a storage unit.

391

Like never once did we go through them.

392

So that is actually great,

great, great advice.

393

Digitize the pictures.

394

Take pictures of something.

395

Yes.

396

And I, you know, something else that I

dealt with is I have a three car garage.

397

So I have lots of storage space,

but if I'm storing something out

398

in, you know, Texas, summers.

399

And if it's 110, 120 degrees,

is it going to be preserved?

400

Am I really valuing this item?

401

If I'm storing it in this

heated garage, right?

402

Like it's, so it's just, yes.

403

Yes.

404

Right.

405

Right.

406

And I think it's so important.

407

Like there's not.

408

A one answer.

409

And so if you come across, you know,

a grandparent's something special or,

410

or, you know, an item that belonged to

them, it's okay to say, I'm not ready

411

to let this go now, but are there other

things that I feel comfortable with?

412

And so this isn't a one stop.

413

Sometimes it is.

414

I need time, or I need to talk to other

family members, or I heard a lot of people

415

say, I just don't want it to be wasted.

416

it.

417

I don't want it to be forgotten.

418

And so finding like an organization that

can use those things or an organization

419

that can repurpose it or finding a

family member that would have a space

420

inside their home to display or to

use one of those family heirlooms.

421

I think that has been a key is like not

wanting people and their, and their legacy

422

to be forgotten, but yeah, that's it.

423

We're not really honoring them by keeping

all of their things in a storage unit, but

424

that's what we feel like we need to do.

425

But what is going to be

more honoring to them?

426

Oh, go ahead, please, Jennifer.

427

I'm just going to say another example,

one of our client case studies, it was,

428

you know, there was a curio cabinet

where she kept all of these things

429

that were passed down to her from

her parents and from her loved ones.

430

But it's kind of that old saying, you

know, if you value everything you know you

431

don't value anything and so all of the,

the really important pieces were hiding

432

behind other items that were also given.

433

But they just didn't hold the same value.

434

So by being able to edit out those

items that had a lower value, we

435

were able to really highlight and

accentuate those really joy filled

436

sentimental items that she will see

every time she walks in her home.

437

And I heard you say earlier.

438

So once you've determined that,

okay, you know, maybe I'm not

439

keeping her, maybe, but that you said

there's three really like buckets,

440

if you will, is it the donate?

441

Yeah, there's a giveaway.

442

What was that?

443

What was it?

444

Well, we have, there's

always trash, unfortunately.

445

Okay.

446

There's trash, you know,

there's donate, there's keep.

447

And then sometimes we have a maybe pile

where it's like, I'm not quite sure.

448

And again, going back to the

assemble inspect process.

449

It's like, Oh, I do have

space for one more item.

450

I could put this in or Oh, I

need to take this other item out.

451

So, Yeah.

452

Right.

453

And I think that, you know, I'm

actually one of the case studies.

454

I, we all, I, again, this is not just

a Jennifer storytelling, you know,

455

we all, you know, I think you too,

Michelle have found like a place of how

456

this might help or fit in their lives.

457

But for me, um, I had these dolls

that were passed down to me by my

458

grandmother who has also passed

and a very important person to me.

459

One of my closest

relationships I've had in life.

460

But I was told not to play with these

dolls because they were too valuable.

461

So for 30 plus years, they were

stored inside my home, not in the

462

Texas heat in my closet, in a box.

463

And they just sat there.

464

So what I did instead is I

contacted family and I said,

465

these were grandmothers.

466

Does anybody want these?

467

I want her to be remembered.

468

They were important for her, but I'm not.

469

Appreciating and how she wanted me to.

470

And I, you know, I want somebody

to display them, use them.

471

And I was able to gift them to two of my

family members so that they could keep

472

those things that were hers and honor

her and me feel comfortable with that.

473

I feel like this book is going

to release a lot of that guilt.

474

And also a little shame maybe of

like, well, why is my house fluttered?

475

And, you know, because like for you

both to have gone through and deal with

476

this and me too, you know, I think it's

so many people struggle with this, but

477

it's, it's just one of those things.

478

You don't talk about it.

479

It's just like, well, it just goes

to the next house and then to the

480

next house and to the next house.

481

So I think you're releasing

people from a lot of that.

482

And I think what you're doing is, and no

pun intended, but you're really, Helping

483

them to reclaim, you know, their space and

what matters to them and what brings them

484

joy and fulfillment and all those things.

485

and it starts with the reframing of

how does, how do I value this and is it

486

important to me and do I value it for

what reasons and claiming the space,

487

reclaiming the space and the function.

488

Cause sometimes I'm like, I have to keep

this because it was, you know, so and sos

489

I, you know, it was gifted to me, I've

got a display and it doesn't really fit

490

the function or the aesthetic you want.

491

So working on that mental and emotional

piece is really important in our book.

492

Yes.

493

So I know people listening are going to

want to, for first of all, they're going

494

to want to get the book and they're also

going to want to get in touch with you.

495

So what is some of the best

ways that they can do both?

496

Well, they can follow us on

Instagram at reframe underscore

497

reclaim, where we show a lot of what

we're doing and tips and tricks.

498

We also have our Facebook page

at reframe amber sand reclaim.

499

And then our website is reframe dash

reclaim, where they can go and pick up

500

our book and there's links to Amazon and.

501

Barnes and Noble and other

booksellers that they can get to.

502

Yeah.

503

And I highly recommend those listening.

504

Definitely go get it.

505

It's, it's, it's a great book.

506

It's an easy read.

507

And I think it's something

that can make a huge impact in

508

people's lives and homes and yes.

509

And, but he said, I hope ladies,

510

so, so much for being on the show.

511

I just adore both of you and

I'm so excited for this journey

512

and this is just the beginning.

513

For what you're going

to do to help people.

514

Well, we want to thank you

and performance publishing.

515

It has really been a joy and a relief

to work with somebody who would guide us

516

through all of the publishing process,

because it does feel overwhelming when

517

you haven't written a book before.

518

So I just want to say thank

you to all of your team.

519

It's been a really,

really wonderful pleasure.

520

Oh, yes.

521

Thanks for helping us tell our story.

522

You are so welcome.

523

All right.

524

Well, I'm going to wrap this up.

525

And so I just want to make sure for

those of you who are listening, and

526

if you didn't have a pen earlier, I'm

going to have it and you have it now.

527

What are those steps?

528

So again, it's all about, you got to

reclaim or reframe and then reclaim, but

529

what are those seven steps that Jennifer

and Courtney shared is number one is

530

the R in reclaim is reflect, right?

531

Really taking in What,

what do I really want?

532

How, how, what do I envision?

533

All of that has to happen before

you can do anything else because

534

then you go to E, which is evaluate.

535

Get to the root of why are

you holding on to some things?

536

Why, why, why is it in your home?

537

Is it important to you

or does it an obligation?

538

Then we go to C, which is you got

to clean and clear out, right?

539

I love that because until you,

you can't just move things around.

540

You really have to get rid of it all

and then determine what you want back

541

in, which is where the L comes in.

542

How do you want it laid out?

543

How is it going to be functional for you?

544

And that's super, super important to

think through in this whole process.

545

Then we move into a, which stands

for assemble and really thinking

546

back, you know, what is the priority?

547

What, what has to go back in?

548

What, what doesn't need to go back in?

549

That's all part of the assemble stage.

550

Then we go into inspect, which

is, does it function for me?

551

Does it really work the way I

want it to in my everyday life?

552

And then finally, the M in reclaim is

maintain because And, and, and part of

553

that also goes back to the beginning of

reflect because something may work today

554

that may not work six months from now.

555

So you have to maintain it, but

then go back, reflect just to make

556

sure, does it still work for you?

557

So I highly recommend again, you,

you get this book and go to their

558

website at reframe dash reclaim.

559

com.

560

And I just want to thank you all for

listening and we'll see you next time

561

on the power of authority podcast.

562

Bye now.

563

Bye.

564

Thanks so much for listening to

the Power of Authority Spotlight.

565

If you are a successful founder,

entrepreneur, business owner, or

566

leader that's getting results and

making a difference, and you'd

567

like to be on this program, please

visit performancepublishinggroup.

568

com forward slash podcast to apply.

569

That's performancepublishinggroup.

570

com forward slash podcast.

571

Also, if you got something

out of this video, interview,

572

please share this episode.

573

Just do a quick screenshot with

your phone and text it to a

574

friend or post it on the socials.

575

If you know someone that would be a great

guest, tag them on social media to let

576

them know about the show and include the

hashtag, the power of authority spotlight.

577

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and guest suggestions.

578

We are regularly putting out new

episodes and content, so make sure you

579

don't miss any episodes by subscribing.

580

Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go

a long way to help promote the show

581

and mean a lot to me and my team.

582

Wanna know more?

583

Go to our websites performance

publishing group.com or michelle

584

prince.com and follow me on

LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.

585

Thanks so much for listening,

and we'll see you next time.