In this episode, I examine the complex topic of teaching children about war, specifically focusing on the Israel-Gaza conflict. Drawing from my personal background and experiences, I explore the intricacies of discussing such sensitive subjects in the classroom.
After that, something completely different as I preview my interview with Paudie Moore, The Teacher's Coach, on maintaining teacher wellbeing.
I also touch upon the goal of achieving 400 multi-denominational schools in Ireland and the challenges involved.
Resources for Israel/Gaza can be found here: https://simonmlewis.medium.com/i-need-to-talk-about-israel-including-some-resources-for-your-classeoom-8435df4698dc
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Hello?
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:Hello.
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:You're very welcome to if I were the
minister for education, I regular
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:podcast, where I look at the world
of primary education in Ireland
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:and let you know what I would do.
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:If I were the minister for education,
this is Simon Lewis on this week's show.
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:I will be talking about Israel and
Gaza and how we can teach about the
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:subject of war in the classroom.
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:I have an interview with Paudie more.
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:The teachers coach.
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:And I'll also be exploring how long
it's going to take before we reach
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:the government's target of 400
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:This week, I'm looking at
the it's the end of the year.
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:And you may, maybe the rain has come
and sports day has been canceled
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:and you don't have anything plans.
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:I have an emergency geography lesson
with the help of AI to help you through.
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:So without further ado, let's
get on with this week's program.
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:MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-1:
So I need to talk about Israel.
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:As many of I come from
a Jewish background.
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:And in some ways I've really
been avoiding talking about.
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:The terrible war that's been going on.
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:In Gaza for the last number of months.
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:And I haven't been avoiding it
because for any other reason, That.
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:I guess I've been a little bit
afraid to talk about it because
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:in some ways, I don't know enough.
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:Like many of you.
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:Who went to school?
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:I also went to school.
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:And I am.
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:Unlike you, you probably went
to a school which indoctrinated
45
:you into some way of thinking.
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:Most of you probably went to a
Catholic school and you would have been
47
:taught faith formation in Catholicism
and you would have been raised.
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:And in, in sometimes in
very subtle ways sometimes.
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:Very much deliberately in the
fact that Catholicism was the true
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:way of life and that worshiping
Jesus with the Ray of life.
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:And it probably has translated
even if you don't believe in a
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:lot of the messages or even a lot
of the religious hostility of it.
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:Or you hear a lot of people calling
themselves cultural Catholics and which
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:is a kind of a strange phrase because.
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:In some ways, Catholicism, isn't
an ETH ethnicity as such, but it's
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:almost become cultural in Ireland
in so far as you have many families
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:who may not believe in God at all.
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:In fact, we have lots of teachers, as from
that the latest grace reports that don't
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:believe in God and are expected to pass
on the message of Catholicism and skills.
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:And you have this very strange.
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:Kind of situation and again as we leave,
what is known as even the fact that
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:we have a communion season in Ireland
suggests that, the vast majority of
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:people who reject Catholicism managed
to and its teachings and its dogma.
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:We'll still go through with allowing with.
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:Making their children do sacraments
and they see it as as not a
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:religious event, despite the
fact that it's a religious event.
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:And, we'll talk about.
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:I don't think there's an episode of
this podcast where I don't explore the
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:harm that can cause to families who
don't go into this sort of, Strange.
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:Cultural phenomenon that only really
happens in Ireland where parents have
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:essentially outsourced the religious
reluct religiosity of the Catholic faith.
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:So they can have a kind of a party.
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:Once when the child turns eight where
they thoughtlessly, don't think about
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:the children that don't do that and
have to sit at backs of classrooms.
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:I was no different, in some way that
I went to a religiously run school
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:and myself, it was a Jewish school.
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:And as part of going to a Jewish school,
I was taught the Jewish faith as truth.
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:And And as many of I don't believe in
the religiosity of the Jewish faith.
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:I don't believe in a God.
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:I don't believe in much of the ad.
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:The dogma and faith formation that
I would have been taught as truth.
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:I don't believe in prayer.
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:I don't believe in.
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:In the dieters, I don't believe
it in any of the religious sort of
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:things, which wouldn't be uncommon,
as, as much as it's not uncommon
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:for many of you who are listening.
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:But you do get that sort of hangover,
that many of you might have in terms
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:of not seeing any harm in things that
are actually harmful in many ways.
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:Dash.
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:I for example, these aren't harmful
to anybody else, but myself, for
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:example, I still can't bring myself
to eating most pork products.
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:I find that very difficult.
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:And, There's no other reason other
than the fact that for the first.
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:14 years of my life, when I did believe
in the faith that I was being raised in,
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:that pork was seen as dirty and bad food.
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:And I remember, I actually even remember.
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:And this is how rooted this
sort of stuff is in me.
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:I remember the first time I ate
a pork sausage and I planned it.
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:I was living in Galway at the time I was
away from home and I was at, I don't even
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:know why I was there because I believe
it was some GAA event and I was in
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:goalie on my own, and I saw a big plate.
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:A pork sausage is he doesn't know
what this cocktail sausages like.
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:And I just really wants to try one.
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:I really wanted to do this.
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:It was almost like this kind of
In fact, I didn't have a ceremony
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:where I this is where I was finally
going to, whip off the last shackles
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:of the faith I was raised in.
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:And I remember eating.
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:sausage and going through it.
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:I know that sounds very
trite, but there's.
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:But, you probably recognize a lot of
this in yourself, maybe in Catholicism
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:that for example, you're standing or
you're sitting in a church in your
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:finery or you've decorated your house
and your child is going up to an alter
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:in a sort of a mini in a communion dress.
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:And maybe you see.
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:What am I doing here?
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:Why am I going through with this?
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:You might have that thought.
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:Of what am I doing this for?
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:And, the sort of almost vulgarity at
potentially of it, or maybe you don't.
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:And so on.
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:I'm not, I'm trying to be there's many
Catholics who are very happy with their
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:religion and absolutely that, I'm not
saying what you're doing is wrong.
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:It's just some of you who may
have left the religiosity of your
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:religion behind and are still going
around thoughtlessly doing a Shanta.
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:I'm not referencing anyone in
particular there, but there was an
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:article at this week, in the Irish
times from Sean Moncrief who was going
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:through his fourth child's communion.
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:And seems to thought with the doers,
without thinking of the potential harm
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:that's causing to children, that might be
in his daughter's class, who were sitting
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:at the back of classrooms for half the
year, while his child was going through.
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:I suppose what he doesn't even
take seriously as a religion.
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:Both.
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:The reason I'm telling you all
this is background is one of the
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:things I suppose that was, I suppose
I know we'll call it harmful.
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:Was the fact that in my school
I would have learned I remember
137
:learning about Zionism as a
concept from a very early age.
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:And even growing up, I would have been,
Sent to, youth groups in Ardennes that
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:would essentially, be Zionist groups,
the youth organization being one.
140
:I remember.
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:I know that I would have had to.
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:There would have been like the way you
get trocars or boxes in your school,
143
:we would have had a JNF box where
you would raise money to plant trees.
144
:In his order, we were told
that was what it was for.
145
:I don't I'm sure.
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:I'm sure there's no, there's no.dot.
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:Smart.
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:It was four, but a lot of like subtle sort
of stuff that you probably do yourself.
149
:The truck or a box, is to help the
poor, but it is also to, as a missionary
150
:thing where you're also, get going
out of town, there's missionaries out
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:there, convincing people to believe
in Jesus Christ and things like that.
152
:I would have had all that.
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:And I would have learned the
history of the state of Israel.
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:And it, the struggle for that land.
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:Because obviously from biblical times
if you believe in those biblical
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:times, that land has had many owners.
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:Many people in control of it and
to do many fights because obviously
158
:a lot of that land is seen by many
symmetric religions as an older,
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:a smidget religions, a holy land.
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:Do you know, Jerusalem Nazareth
and many other places that
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:you probably know quite well.
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:From if you've studied
the Bible and I suppose.
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:I would never have heard.
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:The Palestinian side of the story.
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:And that's what I suppose
I want to get Ash here.
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:And I haven't really, in some ways
you, when you have when you grow up
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:pungy, you try and learn a little
bit about the the situation, the
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:conflict, the wars, and that you.
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:You have the freedom to look at it from a
different perspective than from, and I've
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:spent I've I suppose I've spent the last
few years exploring the Palestinian story.
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:And the Nakba, as I said, I'd
never heard that word before.
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:And I've listened to Palestinian voices.
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:I've listened to Jewish voices who would
have sympathies with the Palestinian
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:because, and I've obviously listened and.
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:I've listened to all my life.
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:To the Zionists and.
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:Sort of state of affairs and have
come, to the conclusion that most
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:Irish people, have come to that.
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:You know that.
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:The current war as it
stands at the moment.
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:Is absolutely a complete
mess and all we are seeing.
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:I'm what I am seeing is we have no
good guys In charge here, we have a
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:very right wing Israeli government that
if it wasn't the state of Israel, we
184
:would be absolutely calling out for
human rights, abuses and war crimes.
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:And just because it is the
state of Israel, I believe
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:that isn't being called out.
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:And on the other side, we have
a group Hamas who are no better.
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:A, again, a group of people
who want to destroy peop.
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:A nation And also we're religion and,
they're part of, and I'll go into this
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:a little bit more about at their aims.
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:And then you have innocent people.
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:Being killed.
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:Absolutely.
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:Just for no other reason
because of where they are.
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:In this world on this map.
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:And it's not okay.
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:And, I feel.
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:I feel I have nothing much to offer
if this was a beach, what I'm about to
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:offer isn't even worth a grain of sand.
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:And I want to make sure that I say
that because all I am is just some.
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:Some guy in front of a microphone who
knows nothing really, who knows nothing.
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:And I think a lot of us, are in that
boat and we're in that brackish.
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:And we have access to an international
where we can state opinions.
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:And this is just one other.
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:And I suppose what I would say to
you is the only thing you should
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:take maybe a little bit seriously
from what I'm about to say is maybe
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:just as a, as another voice in this,
in the many voices that are there.
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:But more importantly, the resources.
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:Done.
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:I'm hoping that I might share
with you because as teachers.
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:I do feel we have a responsibility.
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:Two.
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:Look.
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:At humanitarianism human rights.
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:War.
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:Even with children who are
very young, And explore.
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:Y war is never a good thing, or
even acceptable in many ways.
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:And how do we explore that concept?
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:How do we explore the humanity or
the lack of humanity when it comes to
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:war and in particular, in this war?
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:Where I think it's slightly different.
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:Let's say to the Russia Ukraine conflict,
where there's very much an agreement that
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:there's good guys and bad guys in this.
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:Whereas with Israel.
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:And Gaza.
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:There is by, obviously many people will
say there's good guys and bad guys.
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:In his book in some ways, this
is slightly different because not
228
:everybody there isn't a collective
or a universal agreements that Israel
229
:are bad guys and Gaza, the good guys.
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:Some people will have the opposite view.
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:And then some people have probably,
maybe might have my view, which is sash.
232
:The leadership in both comps is.
233
:Is horrendous and and shocking and things
need to stop because they won't, and
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:I don't know how it's going to stop.
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:If I knew that I don't
think I'd have this job.
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:But then in any way, So why now?
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:Why am I speaking now?
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:And in some ways is this.
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:Is it.
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:I think it really came from Michael D.
241
:Higgins.
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:A couple of weeks ago, who basically
came out to talk about the war in Gaza.
243
:And the fact that, a lot of
people are saying, There's a.
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:A lot of Jewish people saying
they're feeling afraid.
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:Of.
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:Being in Ireland now, because
they're saying there's a growing
247
:anti-Semitism in Ireland.
248
:And Michael D.
249
:Higgins said there is no
antisemitism in Ireland.
250
:There is absolutely no
antisemitism in Ireland.
251
:And I just want to just share a
few tweets that I've been getting.
252
:In the last few weeks I grew up
in Ireland now really rarely if
253
:ever having any antisemitism.
254
:At all, where people would use
my ethnicity, which is Jewish.
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:And to say, to.
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:I suppose be racist towards me.
257
:Very rarely as I say, often joke
when I in the summer, when I tan a
258
:little more easily than most Irish
people that as a teenager at some
259
:summers, I'll be shouted across the
road to go back to my own country.
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:And I always was very happy to
reply in a, in my albeit posh
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:Irish Jackson's at, it was an Irish
Jackson that I was already in.
262
:In my home country and every so
often there might be a little
263
:bit of a thing that would happen.
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:But in the last, A few months I'm
on a weekly basis getting messages
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:which are clearly antisemitic.
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:There's just a few of them on the screen.
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:If you if you're watching it on YouTube.
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:And some of them are.
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:Very interested, like jus detected being,
two words that re were difficult to read.
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:And just two to two words on.
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:It's interesting, but then the
other one that's there that's
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:made me may make the decision to
do this was as so condescending.
273
:This is from someone called a.
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:Younger.
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:So condescending because
I dunno what I said.
276
:I just, I was speaking about
multi-denominational schools, which
277
:I will be again in a few minutes.
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:That I'm so dog condescending and
don't you have Arab children to murder.
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:It was the question that I was asked and.
280
:I just thought look.
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:There is that there is this correlation.
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:And yes, maybe.
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:Maybe I should have spoken up earlier
in this or said something earlier,
284
:but I just didn't see the point of it.
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:And just with this, I said, look.
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:The very small.
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:Kind of number of people
that might listen to this.
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:Maybe they ask those questions themselves.
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:I noticed, I would imagine
that if I wasn't Jewish and I
290
:knew someone who was Jewish.
291
:The first question I'd like to
ask them was what do you think
292
:is, what do you think about the
Israeli Palestinian situation?
293
:And people have asked me that,
when they see me and I tell them.
294
:Exactly what I've told you there.
295
:And I think I don't speak for
the Jewish community by any
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:stretch of the imagination.
297
:And in fact, I imagine I
do exactly the opposite.
298
:But I'm one voice.
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:As I said, and I suppose that's
what I wanted to talk to you about.
300
:I've written about president
Higgins and thinking about
301
:no antisemitism in Ardennes.
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:And I just wanted to and essentially you
can read a little bit more on, on those.
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:On that, if you want to and I've put
some links to other areas where there is
304
:anti-Semitism, if you're looking along,
you'll probably see some imagery there.
305
:Dasha might give you, cause for
concern, particularly the one I'm
306
:hovering on about there, which
is images of Jewish people in.
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:Fairly derogatory memes or
whatever you might call them.
308
:Abbott, also some other examples of
people who have got to talk to people
309
:who look Jewish in some ways, which
is interesting without being Jewish.
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:So I thought that was something
worth talking about John.
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:I know I've been talking quite a bit.
312
:I don't have a lot to cover, but
I do want to talk about Israel.
313
:And I'm going to go through an article.
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:I wrote on my medium
blog@simonmlewisdotmedium.com.
315
:About Israel, which has had
some small amount of a reaction.
316
:And.
317
:At the cooks that this is bad things
happen when good people do nothing.
318
:This is something one lesson
I was taught in school.
319
:The one.
320
:Maybe.
321
:W in Ari, Google, a thing that you
could teach to a Jewish kid in a
322
:Jewish school, because this was in
the context of the Holocaust that.
323
:And I remember when I was very young.
324
:In fact, I remember it was senior infants
when I first learned about the Holocaust.
325
:I dunno, people would
say that's appropriate.
326
:But I remember, and I've
actually written some over.
327
:I actually wrote a poem.
328
:Called six white candles.
329
:A number of years ago about my experience
of being taught about the Holocaust and
330
:how weird that was for a six-year-old
to learn about this death and 6 million
331
:people being killed because they were
Jewish and in a way it was there.
332
:And this is taught to me, as I said,
this was taught to me in a way to
333
:basically teach me to be afraid.
334
:And it's something I think.
335
:I could be wrong on this now, but a lot of
Jewish people spend a lot of their lives
336
:afraid that this is going to happen again.
337
:And.
338
:And up being just for being Jewish.
339
:You should be afraid.
340
:And I remember through
the course of my life.
341
:I I remember going to Israel.
342
:To represent Ireland
in the Jewish Olympics.
343
:That is a thing.
344
:And I remember being,
really interested in that.
345
:The main question I was asked
when I was in Israel is there a
346
:lot of antisemitism in Ireland?
347
:The did this sort of obsession that people
are antisemitic amongst, In Israel or
348
:anywhere you go and do you experience
a lot of antisemitism and it is an
349
:interesting thing to me was the question.
350
:And and it's all down obviously to
do with the Holocaust and so on.
351
:And.
352
:I guess I grew up in
a very different time.
353
:When I was more conscious of Israel
as a teenager, A much more peaceful
354
:time and I could be wrong on this.
355
:Again, remember I was only
getting one side of the story.
356
:But I grew up in Israel with Yitzhak Rabin
as the Theater of Israel at the labor
357
:party and more liberal form of Zionism.
358
:If such a thing exists where
under was talk of a two-state
359
:solution, peaceful talks and gets
our Caribbean was assassinated by
360
:a very right-wing Jewish person.
361
:And.
362
:At that time I've learned since that you
had a very, a younger Benjamin Netanyahu.
363
:Stoking the flames of, this.
364
:It's idea dash Benjamin
Netanyahu was actually going
365
:against this form of Zionism.
366
:That is now that we now know in the
21st century, that's very right wing,
367
:aggressive Zionism, where we were,
where Israel is now a nation state.
368
:I think my last.
369
:Last kind of, I suppose.
370
:Bit of support or whatever that would be.
371
:I don't even think support's the right
d for Israeli policy ended in:
372
:when they introduced the nation state law.
373
:And I'll talk about that in a second, but
I do want to say that when people speak to
374
:me about the Israeli Palestinian conflict
and how I feel as someone who's raised
375
:in the Jewish faith, but also as an Irish
person given the overwhelming support of
376
:Palestinian stage in this country, they
often ask me if I feel safe anymore.
377
:And I just want to say.
378
:That I recognize the irony of that
questioning because my safety.
379
:Is overwhelming me overwhelmingly at
dwarfed when compared to families.
380
:Living.
381
:In fear for their lives every
single minute of every single day.
382
:In.
383
:Gaza, it's, so I want to point that
out before this becomes a kind of
384
:a, oh, I feel unsafe kind of thing.
385
:I know there's thousands and thousands
of families, tens of thousands,
386
:hundreds of thousands of families
that may never feel safe again.
387
:And I just want to say that Basically,
I, as I said, I receive now at least
388
:one antisemitic remarks a week.
389
:Online Which I never did before the
October 7th war that started and, as
390
:much as it makes me feel less safe.
391
:I don't feel unsafe.
392
:I think I've had to wonder what is
it that makes me feel less safe.
393
:Let's say, because it's not pleasant
getting onto symmetrical marks.
394
:By any stretch of imagination,
it's never good for your ethnicity.
395
:To be to be pointed out.
396
:Or threatened or to feel that
it's being threatened and to
397
:be looking over your shoulder.
398
:But my entire blame is actually lies
with the Israeli government here.
399
:Because it's not Hamas that are
making me feel safe or unsafe.
400
:And to be honest, here in Ireland
and Israeli Jews might say.
401
:That's.
402
:They feel offended by me saying that,
but as an Irish person living in Ireland
403
:and as a, as someone from a Jewish
ethnicity, my lack of safety is lies.
404
:With the Israeli government
who are relentlessly murdering
405
:thousands of people, supposedly.
406
:In my name.
407
:And then it's not my name.
408
:They have single-handedly turned
a terrorist group, Hamas who are a
409
:terrorist group that nobody would
have supported a few years ago into
410
:some legitimate revolutionaries.
411
:If you look at Hamas charter this
from:
412
:the day of children's will not come
about until Muslims fight the Jews.
413
:When the Jew will hide behind
stones and trees, the stones
414
:and trees will say, oh, Muslims.
415
:There is a Jew behind
me come and kill him.
416
:Only the banter that goes on, but.
417
:You know it in that charter, this is
the Hamas charter, which hasn't changed.
418
:They mentioned Israel quite a bit and
how it should be destructed and they
419
:don't recognize it, but it also in
12 occasions, mentions Jews, people
420
:with the ethnicity of Jewishness.
421
:It's not.
422
:As David Baddiel has said in his book
that even though he doesn't believe in God
423
:much like me, he would be still tomorrow.
424
:If the Castano came along,
he would be murdered.
425
:Much like I would be.
426
:And this is, I suppose where the fear
is that we know that's happening.
427
:But the only reason I suppose the
fear is because Hamas are not a threat
428
:to me in Ireland is because of what
Israel is doing to rise, Hamas up
429
:as a legitimate organization who.
430
:Quite bluntly.
431
:W R would make want to wipe out.
432
:Anyone who is Jewish.
433
:And to me in this war, As I
said, there's no goodies bodies.
434
:There's simply victims.
435
:And unfortunately, what I want
to press is a nation of people.
436
:One can only expect that nation to rise
up, and we know that from our own history.
437
:I share Arden's recognition
with the state of Palestine.
438
:We need at the moment, a
two state solution, very
439
:much like what we have here.
440
:And I hope it will lead to convincing
more powerful nations who actually
441
:have some sort of influence.
442
:It's interesting art and it's like
me here in a way where nothing.
443
:Israelis don't care what
Irish people think really.
444
:And do you know.
445
:And the same way as is I
don't, no one cares what I say.
446
:But I guess if everybody is speaking
agents some different way the hope
447
:is that you convince more powerful
people, more powerful nations to
448
:support some sort of peaceful outcome
to this artsy devastating crisis.
449
:Need to remember though
the piece won't happen.
450
:Whether it's Netanyahu's
government who are in charge
451
:or whether Hamas are in charge.
452
:We need to ensure that the right people
are in charge of this is coming on.
453
:Now a lot of people, and I suppose the
point of this really in a way, and this
454
:is going to be a bit of a longer episode
than usual, but as it looks at things.
455
:Because I've a lot to say, a lot of
people might ask me about my own opinion
456
:and they, and you'll hear this yourself.
457
:If you're someone who's out of
Palestinian, solid Darcy March, or
458
:your, a lot of people who will be.
459
:Pro Israel in an inverted comments.
460
:Would've asked me this,
ask me the same questions.
461
:That I have to ask myself.
462
:I always think it's important.
463
:To ask questions, no matter
how uncomfortable they are.
464
:And one of the questions
I'm asked is why Israel?
465
:Why is the world, why is everybody in art?
466
:And just focusing on
Israel, there's genocides.
467
:The argument is basically there's
genocides and wars and humanitarian
468
:crises happening all over the world.
469
:I just learned over the weekend of,
loads and loads of other like genocides
470
:that are happening before our eyes
that I'd never even knew were happening
471
:Brazil, for example a journalist, I
obviously listened to over the weekend
472
:and to 60,000 black Brazilians murdered
every year in the state of Brazil.
473
:I had no idea.
474
:It's absolutely nuts to hear that.
475
:But all these things are
happening over the world.
476
:So why are the, why are you Irish?
477
:Why are you Irish?
478
:They'd say why?
479
:And the politicians, the
media only focusing on Israel.
480
:And they follow.
481
:And the logic really from the point of
question is it's downtown to Semitism, but
482
:yeah, Ireland is an anti-Semitic country.
483
:Now I know it isn't.
484
:But at the same time, I know.
485
:Antisemitism exists in the same
way as racism exists in the same
486
:way as anti migrant center phobia
exists, and we know it exists.
487
:I'm recording this.
488
:I said local elections are
unfolding and we're seeing.
489
:And the rise.
490
:Are people who are anti migrant getting
elected and they are getting elected.
491
:I know a lot of them aren't, but some
are, I'm not quite as scary notion.
492
:But anyway, back to why only Israel,
surely it's antisemitic, Baba, and,
493
:And they say they give examples.
494
:They say Yemen, China, South Sudan,
Ethiopia, Nigeria, Iran, Afghanistan,
495
:and they list countries where there
are absolutely massacres, humanitarian
496
:crises, genocides happening.
497
:And we hear very little
of them and people.
498
:Even point out about the
T shock, for example.
499
:It wasn't Miele Martin or
Leah Recart at the time.
500
:I think it was the red car at
the time he met when the Chinese
501
:premier came over to Argentina.
502
:And she shook his hand.
503
:And what is this saying when they're, when
the Chinese are killing groups of people
504
:in China because of their ethnicity.
505
:We also have the Russian invasion of
Ukraine going on with very little,
506
:the focus on that seems to have
waned quite a bit because of Israel.
507
:And in fact, there's a growing animosity
from some of these xenophobia people
508
:to Ukrainian refugees in our tanks
to that growing right wing rhetoric.
509
:That's infecting us in this islands.
510
:I though Joan January to believe
that Arden stance against Israel.
511
:As opposed to the other countries
has anything to do with Judaism.
512
:Israel supposed to be a Western democracy.
513
:Whereas the others aren't I listed
some of those countries there.
514
:You don't ever look at those
as Western democracies.
515
:So it's only natural.
516
:I feel when a Western democracy behaves,
unlike a Western democracy, it's only
517
:natural that we hold them to a higher
account than we would to a country
518
:that is an autocracy or an autocracy.
519
:And I still think in art.
520
:And then I will see this.
521
:And Angie, you hear this on the radio,
particularly now, as we're doing the
522
:local elections and European actions,
we still consider democracy to be
523
:one of the most important things that
we have in our Western civilization.
524
:And when it's being abused in the way
that it currently is by Israel, we stand
525
:against it more strongly than we would.
526
:And whether that's a Christian stage
and Muslim state or a Jewish stage, if
527
:they state that they are democracies,
they need to behave like democracies.
528
:In my view, And I, so I hear
many Irish people discussing.
529
:Apartheid.
530
:As well.
531
:So this is another thing
I hear Irish people.
532
:Edwin speaking about Israel and they
talk about apartheid free zones and they
533
:talk about, we need BDS, we need all this
sort of stuff and there, and they asked
534
:me, and people talk to me about this.
535
:A very, again, when they're
at, when they're happy enough
536
:to talk to me about it.
537
:And they're absolutely correct.
538
:And I don't know when they
say it's an apartheid.
539
:An apartheid stage where they
know when it became an apartheid
540
:zone and an apartheid country.
541
:And effectively.
542
:It became officially an apartheid
state in:
543
:nation state laws, which effectively
makes all people in Israel who are
544
:not Jewish second class citizens.
545
:This is a nation state laws
that Netanyahu brought in:
546
:It was the last straw I
ever had for any sort of.
547
:Sympathy.
548
:Or affiliation I had for an Israeli
state, for the Zionist calls,
549
:if you want to call it a cause.
550
:And in my view, no country, no matter
who they are should favor any citizen.
551
:Anymore than any other citizen.
552
:On the basis of any of the human
rights that they would have.
553
:So there's in RND we have nine
grinds for discrimination.
554
:And if anyone.
555
:Is treated differently because
of one of those rights that is
556
:wrong, no matter what and Israel.
557
:Is treats.
558
:Anyway, it's basically said that
there is a Jewish stage on the Jewish
559
:people are treated more favorably
than other people and that's wrong
560
:by any stretch of imagination.
561
:And it is a par thought because
it treats people on equally on
562
:the basis of their religion.
563
:And it's why I continuously
campaign against our own apartheid
564
:in our primary education system.
565
:And because we have one and I
understand that people only really
566
:care about apartheid systems when
people are being killed and murdered,
567
:but in part fight system where
citizens are treated differently
568
:because of their ethnicity or race.
569
:Doesn't have to become intolerable
just when people are killed.
570
:Our primary education system is
an apartheid one where in the vast
571
:majority of cases, I know people
don't like to hear the word apartheid
572
:when we're talking about a primary
education, isn't the same way.
573
:They don't like me saying indoctrination.
574
:In fact, lots of people switch off.
575
:When they say, when I say we have
an indoctrination system in our
576
:educations, they prefer faith
formation, It, but words matter.
577
:And and this is why people
don't like it in the same way.
578
:As when I say skills, aren't inclusive.
579
:People jar with dosh
because it's a criticism.
580
:And so nobody likes to be criticized, but.
581
:Just looking at the definition of
the word apartheid it's when you
582
:treat people equally because of their
culture, their faith, their race,
583
:their body, and things like that.
584
:So in our primary education system,
which is an apartheid one, the vast
585
:majority of cases of skills, one faith
is promoted over all others in 96% of
586
:schools in the same way as an Israel, that
Jews are promote Jewishness is promoted
587
:over all other fates in its state.
588
:And we dress it up with the same
propaganda that Israel uses.
589
:Users announcing that we're inclusive
because we allow children of all
590
:fades or none into our schools.
591
:Israel will say that they are
in a democracy they're inclusive
592
:because they allow, they you hear
them saying 20% of the Knesset,
593
:the did the governments are Arabs.
594
:They're allowed into the the Knesset into
the door, their equivalent of the door.
595
:But doesn't mean they're treated equally.
596
:No.
597
:Is the answer.
598
:These to the children in our schools
are expected either except the doctrine
599
:being taught in our schools or to sit at
the backs of classrooms as second class
600
:citizens in their own local schools.
601
:We, we've the app.
602
:So I'm going to give it,
move on to another example.
603
:Our primary teachers unit,
the ITO has a Palestinian
604
:solidarity group in the rightly.
605
:So I absolutely support that, but
they're asking, they were asking
606
:their members to have a solidarity
day in their schools on 5th of June.
607
:Then they asked schools to designate
themselves apartheid free zones.
608
:You can see how I feel.
609
:That's quite ironic.
610
:I can imagine.
611
:People.
612
:Out there most Irish primary
school teachers would have made
613
:board of, whether they did it or
didn't do it on the 5th of June.
614
:They probably didn't think that they
may very well be teaching in a parfait
615
:and in an apartheid system themselves.
616
:Again, I know.
617
:People will probably be very cross with
me for saying that because, obviously,
618
:no one's been killed in our schools.
619
:No, one's being a ho no.
620
:I wouldn't say I wouldn't go as far
as saying no one's being harmed.
621
:People are being harmed, but no
one's been harmed in the same way
622
:as obviously Palestinian kids and
Palestinian people are being, but
623
:it doesn't mean it isn't apartheid.
624
:And I just, I think it's
important to point things out.
625
:I can't not say that, but.
626
:As I'm saying it.
627
:I'm doing something that I'm advising
against now, which is politicizing things,
628
:politicizing schools, it's very dangerous.
629
:And we try, I think we tend
to avoid it in our, and we try
630
:to not politicize schools and.
631
:I think.
632
:At schools.
633
:We need to teach children about politics.
634
:We need to teach children about injustice.
635
:We need to teach children about
human rights, but we also need to
636
:be very careful when we're doing it.
637
:So for example, When we had the
Russian invasion of Ukraine.
638
:We advise strongly.
639
:And I remember this very clearly.
640
:I'm sure some of you do
is to always remember.
641
:That in schools, in our schools,
we had Russian children.
642
:And they need to be as protected as
our Ukrainian children who were also
643
:amongst us and also the new Ukrainian
children who were fleeing this war.
644
:And in fact.
645
:Over the last 20 years, Irish schools
or more have been welcoming refugees
646
:from all countries and asylum
seekers from all over the world.
647
:And it's important to ensure that all
children are protected from alienation.
648
:And it's an Israeli children
have no part in this war no
649
:more than the Russian children.
650
:How did the Ukraine and it's
incumbent that we don't forget that
651
:we have to make sure that we don't.
652
:Alienate A nation of people because
of the acts of their governments.
653
:We don't, if you have any Burmese students
in your school, you don't treat them,
654
:you don't treat them any differently.
655
:Did I say to Rohingya and children, if
you have any of the Tamil kids in true.
656
:Untrue and Sri Lankan kids, you don't
treat, you, we need to treat our children.
657
:It's not their fault that
there's a war going on.
658
:We need to remember that we need to, we
don't avoid discussing the horrors of war,
659
:but we need to remember that war is much
more complicated than goodies and bodies.
660
:And I think that's the message
I want to bring to this.
661
:There were many good Germans
during the second world war that
662
:tried against hope to help Jewish
people, escape Europe to safety.
663
:There are many Israelis and Jews
who are demanding that the war.
664
:War in Palestine stops.
665
:As when it comes to any ongoing
war in schools, we need to look
666
:at solutions not to take sides.
667
:And with that in mind and I'm
sorry, this episode has gone much
668
:longer than it usually would.
669
:Get some solutions and if you're on
YouTube there right now, you'll see
670
:some of these solutions and I'll
just go through them very quickly.
671
:But I'm going to put links into my
show notes so that you can also.
672
:Be able to use them if you like.
673
:There's.
674
:Really good.
675
:Really good resources out
there for teaching about war.
676
:With a focus on Palestine and
Israel and Gaza and how that works.
677
:And I'm including our Irish resources
as well as some international resources.
678
:And the first one I'm going to show is one
that's already six months old and it's a
679
:three-point guide to the conflict in Gaza.
680
:And it's the first place you should look
as a guide and it's really relevant.
681
:And I also suggested you look at TRO CRA.
682
:CRA TRO CRA spent a lot of time.
683
:And one of their things, one of their
main things I wouldn't normally recommend
684
:chakra because of, I suppose I have
an issue with their denominational
685
:aspect, but their scooters sources
are January very are excellent.
686
:And the tree of justice is a fantastic
resource, which I'd really recommend.
687
:And trucker had to be very careful with
how they presented their resources.
688
:Because again, they have the
same dilemma that we have of
689
:they're not allowed to take sides.
690
:And I think it's very useful at that.
691
:That resource is very useful.
692
:I know their Irish resource is from
the national youth council of Ireland,
693
:which discusses war generally with
young people, which you can have a
694
:look at and then moving on at the
British red cross, have a really good
695
:resource about your humanitarian work.
696
:And how you learn about the work
that they're doing in Israel and
697
:Palestine, it's very well done.
698
:And then another one
another Catholic agency.
699
:And I, this is it's interesting to
me that I'm recommending catholic
700
:agencies are as good resources.
701
:As I said, there's nothing is ever 100%.
702
:Black and whites, a religion can be used.
703
:It can be a force for good.
704
:And I often say this and this is a good
UK resource from a Catholic agency.
705
:Again, resources, that'd be very
good for fifth and sixth class,
706
:which is a good age maybe to cover.
707
:This finally I think we have another UK
resource from D E C S Y S from Yorkshire.
708
:And they've come up with some really
good lesson plans and teaching resources
709
:might be good for senior classes as well.
710
:However.
711
:I would suggest.
712
:That the best thing you can probably
do is outside of your classroom.
713
:Attends the protests.
714
:And the solidarity marches I
campaign for peace in the region.
715
:I know it's a small thing to do, but get
out and stand with like-minded people.
716
:Stop this atrocity.
717
:And be there and stand there
and make sure you're there.
718
:But not only that put your hands in
your pockets, if of all the things
719
:you could possibly do, put your hand
in your pocket and donate to those
720
:humanitarian causes where real health can
be offered to real people who need your.
721
:You need that money to survive in
awful conditions, give them your
722
:money and make sure you do that.
723
:There's no point in throwing up stuff
on Instagram or throwing stuff on
724
:social media about, and all the rest
of it without doing any of that, by
725
:all means, put stuff on Instagram.
726
:But put your hands in your pocket
as well, because we need to
727
:learn, you also need to learn.
728
:About the history of how he
got to this terrible place.
729
:Don't simplify this.
730
:This is not a simple war.
731
:This isn't going to end.
732
:Just if Israel stop killing people, this
is a deep rooted learn about the history
733
:of how Zionism has now been weaponized
by very bad people to try and legitimate.
734
:Legitimize the massacre of thousands
and thousands of people, and try to
735
:help people understand that Zionism
and Judaism are not the same thing.
736
:Help people understand that Hamas
and Palestine are not the same thing.
737
:There are enough victims in this
war without making correlations
738
:that will cause even more harm.
739
:And I guess.
740
:That's where I might stop when I'm
talking about Israel, I hadn't expected
741
:to go on for so long and I'm sorry.
742
:If some of it was difficult to listen to.
743
:And do you know what.
744
:As I said it is not even a
grain of sand on the beach of.
745
:Opinion.
746
:It is an opinion.
747
:From someone.
748
:Who's in the system in some way.
749
:I might have.
750
:I know slightly different.
751
:Views, but not particularly
different either.
752
:I hope the resources, if nothing else
are useful to you, I do want to move on.
753
:A to.
754
:I guess later stories under, in
some ways, and I am going to move
755
:computers, something completely
different as Monte Python would say.
756
:Perhaps it deserves an
episode in itself, which does.
757
:And I am moving on to a completely
light but very important subject
758
:for teachers because all this is
very heavy and teaching has become
759
:very difficult over the last
number of years in particular with.
760
:Additional needs are causing a huge
number of extra work for teachers at
761
:behavior in schools has become very
difficult since COVID in lots of ways.
762
:Dealing with conflict in January and
it's causing a lot of teachers to
763
:leave the profession where we are.
764
:I CA I do go on.
765
:A lot of by people who are
leaving the professional.
766
:W who wouldn't have necessarily done.
767
:So the job of a teacher has become very
difficult and you what makes it worse for
768
:me sometimes is people say, you need to
look after your wellbeing without telling
769
:him how to look after your wellbeing.
770
:So I've interviewed a number of
people over the last number of
771
:years around wellbeing for teachers.
772
:But I have.
773
:Often focused, on I.
774
:This is the main thing with the
focusing on wellbeing of children,
775
:which is obviously very important.
776
:What about teachers?
777
:And I was very lucky to come across party
Moore, who is a teacher, coach, teacher.
778
:And he runs the teachers
coach on Instagram.
779
:Where he is actually interested
in helping teachers to look
780
:after their own wellbeing.
781
:And I did a great, really good
interview, which I've posted online.
782
:It's on the on show.
783
:You can find it on onshore.
784
:Nash on my interviews
page is my 21st interview.
785
:And I talked to potty more about teacher
wellbeing, but teacher fitness, and
786
:about being the best you can be being
in this in a state of health, where
787
:you can be the best teacher you can be.
788
:And I'll just play a short
clip of that interview.
789
:And now we're about a minute
and a half where I ask.
790
:Potty, what can teachers actually do?
791
:To help with their own wellbeing.
792
:I'm going to play that.
793
:It's about a minute of it, but if you
want to hear the full episode and I really
794
:recommend you do go on to onshore Nash.
795
:And have a listen it's it's worth,
it's definitely worth your while.
796
:Speaker: I think that they're going
to need to know number one, how to be
797
:able to put strong boundaries in place,
how to be able to have a better work
798
:life balance so that they're not like
we said earlier, burning the candle
799
:on both ends, bringing work home with
them, and then showing up on maybe 30
800
:to 40 percent battery at all times.
801
:They need to be, they need to be taught
how to be able to create energy, how to
802
:be able to manage their energy so that
they're going to be able to show at
803
:their best as a leader for their class.
804
:For their students, even
for their colleague.
805
:I think that would be one, one
thing that I would start with.
806
:Secondly, I think what teachers need
is to be taught how to be able to have
807
:more helpful co op mechanisms in place.
808
:I think the job itself, as we said
earlier, it's quite demanding, both
809
:physically, mentally and emotionally.
810
:And I feel that if you're not
811
:If you're not sure how to be able
to re energize yourself physically,
812
:mentally, and emotionally, it's
going to be very hard for you to give
813
:back at your very best in as well.
814
:And I think that without that
knowledge, it's too easy to then turn
815
:to the unhelpful coping mechanisms.
816
:And that's why so many people that we
deal with there, they struggle a lot
817
:with snacking, with comfort eating.
818
:Some people might even turn to alcohol
to help themselves suit because
819
:they don't know any better way of
helping to deal with that stress.
820
:Yeah.
821
:So I think that.
822
:Equipping teachers with strategies, with
skills of how to be able to overcome these
823
:would enable them to be able to show up in
824
:Speaker 2: a much better,
in a much better way.
825
:MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-2:
So from I hope you enjoyed that interview.
826
:And I I recommend us to say
listen to the full thing.
827
:And I just wanted to very briefly,
because I can see where nearly an hour
828
:into this episode, but I re I, as I
said, I really wanted to tackle the
829
:question and the questions that have
been asked of me about Gaza and so on.
830
:And I said, it's something I've
wanted to do for a while and
831
:never really found a way into it.
832
:But I said, I have now, but.
833
:Slightly linked.
834
:Is in terms of I, as I said, I
argued that we have an apartheid.
835
:Ah, primary education
system here in Ireland.
836
:And I was very interested
in two things that came out.
837
:I know I mentioned very briefly
at the first reading is.
838
:The report that comes
out nearly every year.
839
:And it's wonderful.
840
:Wonderful to reapportion.
841
:I go on about this.
842
:I actually usually just summarize
the whole thing as a full episode,
843
:but I'm actually going to give
it less than five minutes today.
844
:Unfortunately.
845
:But I'd really recommended you look at it.
846
:It is at the children's lives, our
children's schools that I've study and
847
:their report number seven has come out.
848
:And this time it is about number
seven is about the sense of belonging.
849
:Sorry, it's not about a sense of what I
talk about a lot of things, but one of
850
:the things it's about is about belonging.
851
:It's actually about wellbeing.
852
:So it nearly ties in quite a lot
of what we're talking about today.
853
:I like when that happens.
854
:In, in, in my episodes of the stories,
all intertwined among each other and
855
:they do talk about children's wellbeing.
856
:And it's actually quite good.
857
:If you read the report, it's
not as bad as we all think.
858
:Now there are obviously problems, but
children in schools to feel safe and
859
:that's really nice, but the chapter I
was really particularly interested in.
860
:Was there sense of belonging
school belonging in to page 27.
861
:And I mentioned this because.
862
:One of the re.
863
:One of the times in school where I feel.
864
:Belonging really happens in the school
as when we all do something to gather.
865
:Where the school community
comes together to celebrate.
866
:At this time of the year, many of you
would be preparing to say goodbye to your
867
:sixth costs and you may have a graduation
ceremony and all the school comes to
868
:gather, to say goodbye and wish the six
cos good luck when they come into school.
869
:And another time in the year where we
will come together might be a concert.
870
:Around Christmas timer in wintertime.
871
:At where the school comes together and
the community comes together to celebrate.
872
:Being in school, in, in Catholic schools,
that's usually through a, or in Christian
873
:schools, that's usually through a nativity
play or through a Christmas concert in
874
:schools like mine and an educate together.
875
:We would have a winter concert where
we maybe pick a theme and everyone
876
:comes together for that theme.
877
:We belong and the thing is, it's the
idea of belonging to a school community.
878
:And I suppose I bought, I was
very interested in, and it's the
879
:question, are you, I'm going to
leave hanging in a way, because
880
:I've touched on it in the previous.
881
:It, when I was talking about Israel,
Gaza and a, and an apartheid is
882
:how to do all children belong.
883
:When it comes to sacramental
time in Catholic schools.
884
:And obviously the answer is no,
and I know a lot of schools will
885
:do everything they can to make
children feel that they belong.
886
:And I get this argument
from a lot of conflicts.
887
:Principals who said, but we do, we,
we include families in the ceremony
888
:where they could, they can go up
to the priest and get a blessing.
889
:Or they can, they sing in the choir
or they're invited to the ceremony.
890
:And the thing is, that's
all lovely and it's all.
891
:And I can see the aspiration to try
and include and help children belong.
892
:But they don't, they are.
893
:They are not actually in the community.
894
:They are visitors at this point.
895
:And this is something that's really
important to me as a, as I, when
896
:it comes to school and this is
a bit, and this is why I go on
897
:so much about this all the time.
898
:No matter how much you try to make a child
feel that they belong in your school.
899
:If the structures that are in place, and
these are not schools fault, but if the
900
:structures are in place where only some.
901
:Or even if most of the children are.
902
:Are part of that community and you
were excluding even one child from
903
:that community because of their
religion or because of their race
904
:or because of their ethnicity.
905
:Then we need to change the system
because you cannot have this
906
:system where children don't belong.
907
:And I was interested in the CSL study.
908
:As to whether that came out,
when it came to school belonging.
909
:As I have to say.
910
:I was disappointed.
911
:That it didn't, it's not in the report.
912
:And I was so disappointed that I
contacted the CSL people on a presume
913
:when my, if an email comes from me
To, to some organizations go, oh, no.
914
:Oh, no, not him.
915
:It's what's he going to do now?
916
:And I just asked them and I said, look,
I love, I actually, I love the reports.
917
:I'm always going on about
how brilliant they are.
918
:I know.
919
:I genuinely mean that, but I just
asked him, look, I was interested.
920
:Did they get any feedback in terms
of second year, second class and
921
:six costs and not idea belonging.
922
:And they have said, look, yes,
they did get some feedback on us.
923
:And they're hoping to be able to share
it, but obviously these reports can only.
924
:Give so much.
925
:And I think I would love, I suppose
I haven't read what those things
926
:were, but they did assure me that
it did come up and I hope maybe
927
:that will be shared at some point.
928
:And when it is.
929
:I'm looking forward to going through
it and reading it because I do think
930
:that schools do a really good job.
931
:Of trying to convince people that they do.
932
:Make people feel that they belong in their
school communities, even when they don't.
933
:And I feel, you have to be
hyper critical of a system.
934
:Where you have.
935
:And I bring this back to my Sean
Moncrief article, where you have someone
936
:like Sean Moncrief, who in some ways
he ticks the no religion box in E.
937
:He, this is what he says.
938
:I take no religion in the census,
but all four of my children have
939
:gone through the sacraments.
940
:And he's very unapologetic for it.
941
:In fact, he, sometimes he
celebrates that hypocrisy.
942
:And he claims that the reason he does it
is because he feels he's not anti-Catholic
943
:as if that's the reason he does it.
944
:It's not that he's, I my, my question
mark, isn't about being an auntie.
945
:I, for example, my child
didn't make the communion.
946
:Not because I'm anti Catholic
and freight and parents on.
947
:I'm far from anti-Catholic.
948
:I, and, but the reason he didn't make his
sacraments was because he's not Catholic.
949
:Simple as that.
950
:As not because he's against
Catholicism or I'm against Catholicism.
951
:It's because he's not Catholic and
no more than showing Moncrief kids.
952
:Are probably not Catholic.
953
:And he, in his article this year, he
said, That the priests made them think
954
:about children all over the world who
are not belonging into their communities.
955
:And so you referenced, without.
956
:Saying exactly where it
was, but he referenced Gaza.
957
:He referenced.
958
:Ah, places outside of Ireland.
959
:And I suppose the question I asked him,
or I am asking is what about the children
960
:in his children's classrooms that also.
961
:Are not belonging.
962
:And it's the question
I asked to CSL as well.
963
:And some will say to
me, put, look over time.
964
:It will be fine.
965
:It will be grand.
966
:And look, we're having more and
more multi-denominational schools.
967
:And that kind of leads
me to my final thought.
968
:My final thing, which is a press
release from education equality.
969
:Wonderful organization.
970
:And as many people know the government are
schools by:
971
:And at this rate, they calculator, which
I thought was quite funny or not funny.
972
:It's sad.
973
:What year.
974
:Got the rate that we've been going
since this says, since the plurism
975
:patronage forum, what year would it be?
976
:When we do have 400 skills and
foreign just goes, by the way,
977
:is 12% of schools by no means.
978
:Is this a quality.
979
:But it will be, we will
all be dead long, dead.
980
:In fact, our grandchildren may
be dead by the time happens.
981
:What.
982
:At this rate.
983
:We will get to 400
multidimensional schools in:
984
:That's the year.
985
:At that rate and it's not good enough.
986
:And I guess the message I
have for this episode is.
987
:There's a lot of stuff in this world.
988
:That isn't good enough.
989
:It's not good enough.
990
:That.
991
:We have a war going on.
992
:Where we have.
993
:Terrible people.
994
:Doing terrible things.
995
:To innocent people.
996
:And it filters down to this
whole idea of bad things happen
997
:when good people do nothing.
998
:And we need to look at Israel, Palestine,
we need to look at ourselves as teachers.
999
:In Ireland, we need to look at ourselves.
:
00:49:59,009 --> 00:50:00,569
We need to look at what we do here.
:
00:50:00,659 --> 00:50:01,949
We need to look at what we do.
:
00:50:02,279 --> 00:50:02,849
Everywhere.
:
00:50:02,969 --> 00:50:08,039
And we need to make sure that we do
something more than tokenism, more than
:
00:50:08,039 --> 00:50:10,229
ignoring the bad things that are going on.
:
00:50:10,649 --> 00:50:12,569
And we do something about them.
:
00:50:12,989 --> 00:50:15,209
I'm not saying what I'm doing
is doing anything particularly.
:
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:16,649
This is all I have.
:
00:50:16,919 --> 00:50:18,239
Maybe this is what I can do.
:
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:19,349
I don't know if it's.
:
00:50:19,979 --> 00:50:22,469
Again, I don't think it's, I don't
think it's very much, as I said,
:
00:50:22,469 --> 00:50:26,009
it's not even a grain of sand on the
beach, but it's not nothing either.
:
00:50:26,579 --> 00:50:28,079
So look with that in mind.
:
00:50:28,259 --> 00:50:29,669
I wish you all the very best.
:
00:50:29,829 --> 00:50:31,419
I hope this has been of use to you.
:
00:50:31,629 --> 00:50:34,269
And maybe this is maybe one
of my more useful episodes.
:
00:50:34,269 --> 00:50:35,259
It's not just giving out.
:
00:50:35,259 --> 00:50:38,829
It's not winging about, I haven't even
mentioned the minister for education.
:
00:50:38,859 --> 00:50:40,269
This episode boss.
:
00:50:40,539 --> 00:50:42,249
If I were the minister for education.
:
00:50:42,659 --> 00:50:43,169
I think.
:
00:50:43,679 --> 00:50:44,459
We could take a loss.
:
00:50:45,119 --> 00:50:47,189
From what's going on.
:
00:50:47,819 --> 00:50:49,649
In Arland in the world.
:
00:50:50,159 --> 00:50:52,289
And that we stand up for what's right.
:
00:50:52,439 --> 00:50:53,399
Whatever that might be.
:
00:50:53,849 --> 00:50:56,009
Thanks so much for
listening all the very best.
:
00:50:56,339 --> 00:50:56,789
Bye-bye.