Common Conversations, Let's Talk Domestic Violence!

"The DV Systems Unveiled: Debunking Myths on Domestic Violence"

Welcome and join us as we engage in an insightful discussion surrounding domestic violence and the misconceptions often associated with "The DV Systems". Join us as we shed light on the truth behind these myths and offer a fresh perspective on this crucial issue in Southern Indiana. Welcome our guest Zenebia Law, Director of the Southern Indiana Programs at The Center for Women and Families.

Our Host: "That Guy" Miguel Hampton and Missy Smith

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(upbeat music) - Welcome to the podcast. This is your boy, Gully Guell. And this is Common Conversations. And as you know, I have my greatest hopes with the most of sitting over here across from me. - Hi friends. - That's good. Doesn't that make you smile when she does it? Like, hi friends. Like, we were, we did this thing the other day and she does hi friends so well. Like, I started doing it and then I was looking at this dude like, you're not my friend. Like, why did I say that? But I felt so good talking to him. And I'm a bit of an introvert, although we podcast and we do radio and do all these live events. And yeah, it's just so fun. So I love when Missy says, hi friends. She just brings such a smile and a joy. It makes your heart just open and gleam. You can almost see the sun rays coming through.

The building that we're in that has only two windows. - The clouds part, the sun comes through. - Absolutely. God walks in and says, hello.

Hi, whichever one. - Hi friends. - That's God's voice. Hi friends. - That is. - That's God's voice. - That's how I hear. - We're running with it. Everybody look, if you listen to Common Conversations, we now have God's voice. If you've never heard it before, some of you are gonna hate me. I'm gonna get some hate mail and some bad comments. And I'm hoping so. Maybe just get you engaged just a little bit. But as you know, we've been down this journey of equity, right, and having all the conversations and this particular podcast, I say that on every podcast.

- This one and all of them. - And this and all of them are leading to a public conversation that we're gonna have here in either Clarksville or Jeffersonville, Indiana here soon in October,

all about domestic violence, education, prevention, journey, what we need to do to help our community or maybe create community, but also kind of take a deep dive into what our blockages are, right? Where our shortfalls, our shortcomings, also looking at how we do this work today and how we may need to do it tomorrow. Y'all should see this look that Missy just gave me. So we're gonna be all over the place. I hope you stick with me. Cause there are some things that are happening and today there's no camera in the room. So you're just gonna have to imagine Missy's face. Maybe I'll find a picture, throw it on Facebook, write it to his moment so he can see it. - There's sounds everywhere and some of them are coming out of my stomach for no reason, I don't understand. - So if you hear the car rumbling by, it's Missy's stomach. - It's not the car rumbling by, it's me. - I'm telling you, I don't think anybody can hear it. - Oh my gracious, it is so loud. - It's so loud. - It's ridiculous. - We should stick a mic on your stomach and just let your stomach be a part of the podcast. It's got a whole conversation. - It is saying all of the things and I don't know why. - So look, she gave me this big old smile. So I just go ahead and introduce our guests today and we're just gonna just have a just around just a roundabout conversation thing. We're gonna say all the things and you just get to share with us. - So friends, we have Zenebia Law with us. She is with the Center for Women and Families and Jeffersonville, Indiana. Zenebia, what exactly is your title now and tell us your journey through the center. - Yeah, hi everyone. I am the director of the Southern Indiana Center and my journey, that's been a long journey. I'm going on the living years. I'm at the Center for Women and Families and I had several roles, specifically directly with clients who experienced either domestic violence or sexual assault. So anywhere from hospital advocacy to call center, crisis calls, shelter, hospital, legal, I've been around, I've been around a lot. So that's kind of been my journey is just figuring out what ways I can support someone and now in a leadership role, I'm able to support in a different way. - Thank you for that. So as a reminder to you listeners and also, and we just kind of discussed this with Zenebia, that this podcast believes that the everyday individual who doesn't intersect these systems, has some beliefs about them. We believe for instance, that if the help is needed, the help is there. And we believe that good things happen to good people. I want to talk a little with you about what you know about the systems as they exist and what people believe about individuals who find themselves in need of your services. So before we got on Mike, you mentioned that you've been in spaces and heard some really interesting things in your 11 years. And so I'd really like to explore that more. Tell us about what you have heard and if we can name some of these beliefs that people hold these deeply held, but not always confronted beliefs and just lay them out on the table, that maybe listeners, those are some beliefs that you hold and let's learn something new together today and be brave in that. Let's be brave together. And if again, if you feel this in your body somewhere, or something that we say today, instead of judging yourself for that or pushing that away, let's ask that, let's interrogate it. Let's ask deeper questions about why that felt that way. Why that felt that way for you. So Zenebia, let's talk about that. What have you heard from the community when it comes to the people that you serve? - I would say probably one of the things is that it's the organization's responsibility to help a survivor who has experienced domestic violence. And simply put, the organizations can't do it by themselves, right? It takes the community. So going into the assumption that it's not my problem as an individual, but it's the Center for Women and Families problem and they have to solve it for, what's our population here? It's a lot, right? - You know, how- - I mean, if you take both counties, and we're about, I think over 200,000, so about roughly about 300,000 people give or take. - Yeah, so the Center for Women and Families is gonna support all everybody, right?

So I think that that's a big misconception that it's the responsibility of the organization. Like a lot of times when we're having these conversations, when someone has that impression, we do an activity around the socioeconomic model, right? So we look at the individual level, we look at the relationship level, we look at the society level, and we just go up the chain and we just say, you can make an impact, and let's look at how you can make this impact. So really digging into all the different levels that someone can contribute, and it's not just the organizational level, right? So I think that's something that I hear commonly. Another thing is that, why don't have the capacity to do it? So I understand that maybe I do have some responsibility, but I don't have the money or I don't have the time. So it's something that they've identified that they don't have to be able to give. And what I say is, you don't have to give financially, you don't have to work 40 hours plus volunteering, right? Like there's other things that you can do, there's always a way that you can be an advocate, whether that is you saying to someone who discloses to you, I believe you, or saying, you know what, I know a resource, I went through this training or I was at this event and they were talking about domestic violence and here's a card, it might be helpful for you to give them a call, right? So anybody can do a referral. - Fabulous, so we're hearing a couple of things when people say it's your job. So if any domestic violence occurs in the entire Southern Indiana area, it's yours to fix. So that's an interesting perspective. Let's back up a little bit and talk about the center and then revisit the ways that people can help. I was telling Zenebia in the 20 years that I've been in the prevention space and child abuse prevention, I've taken families to a lot of different spaces that were affiliated with the center, to crisis counselors in Scott County, and then that position went away. And then crisis counselors in Floyd County that also was affiliated with the shelter space and then that space went away. Can we talk about what the center looks like right now in Southern Indiana and kind of that evolution, what has changed? - Yeah, absolutely. So right now the center is, we are considered non-residential. Essentially we do have options where we can refer someone and support someone that they do need emergency shelter, but that's not the priority as far as the first thing that someone is being offered when they get to us. So ideally with the program as it is, and maybe I should back up and talk about just the transition part of it. - I love that. - Okay.

So when we transitioned, during our transition period, we were trying to figure out what made the most sense for survivors and how can we serve survivors while also being financially responsible and also having the means, the financial means to be able to do so. And during that time when we were having those conversations, surveys were going out from our coalition to survivors throughout Indiana. And some of the things that we were hearing was not, we need emergency shelter. That was not the number one thing. The number one thing was really around making that connection and reducing barriers to access services. So through those conversations, through some of that information, we did some more research. We sought out some other programs to see how they were operating. We learned from this place, from an Arizona called Eve's Place. And they had transitioned from an emergency shelter to mobile advocacy. So we said, "Oh, what's this mobile advocacy thing? Tell us more about this." So as we learned from them, it did a lot of that reducing barriers for somebody.

If you remember when we were on Charleston Road in New Albany, we were in a location that did not have public transportation. - Not at all. - So we had people who struggled to get to us. And then also we were kind of secluded. So if we had someone who needed employment, it's more difficult for you to get employment when there's just a few jobs. - And not a great space to walk from point A to point B with no sidewalks. - Not at all. No sidewalks, we would have survivors trying to walk that. And how it's dangerous, right?

abuse with privilege and the children, that you didn't technically qualify for emergency shelter, right? It was more of a, well, we'll listen to you, we'll talk to you about it, we'll try to support you over the phone, those kinds of things. But that long-term support for those things were not really happening. We didn't have the resources for it. A lot of funders at that time wanted to fund the shelter. So all the funding was being funneled into shelter programming, not necessarily outreach or anything to do with outside of shelter. So when we transitioned, again, a lot of different things kind of lined up. And our coalition came out with the report kind of showing some of the statistics what survivors were seeing. And we moved into that model. And now we're able to, again, serve more people. We, just to describe what mobile advocacy is, like we're literally able to meet them where they are. We can meet them at their place of employment. We can meet them in the community, at a park, at a coffee shop, whatever the advocate and the survivor has identified as safe for them. And we know with the domestic balance, a lot of times there is the stalking component to that. So that's helped with some of those issues as well, because oftentimes the perpetrator will try to track where that person is going. They'll know, okay, well, your route is supposed to be home to work to home. Well, if we can kind of intercept that and show up at work, then they don't necessarily know what's going on to be able to call some balance in that situation. So we've been able to do things like that. We've been able to partner with other organizations, doing support groups and even support groups for our program as well. And then of course, education. Getting out into the community, because at some point I think, prevention has to be lifted up. Because we have to be able to get out there and change what's going on, change the mindset, change the systems. Because if not, we're just gonna continue to, the analogy of picking people out of the river, right? I don't know if you've heard of that analogy before. We need to go upstream and find out why are people falling in the river and really be able to make a difference. So we've been able to do some of that work as well on a smaller scale, but we're still able to get out there and make some change. So that's kind of what we're doing now with the new model. - I'm curious. I mean, I'm glad you guys did the surveys. In an area like ours that has such high housing, right? And low income spaces. Now that you guys are no longer in that space, like transitional housing didn't come up as a need for those who are facing domestic violence, you know, who are going from like, again, from an emergency position, short term housing to long term housing for family as a whole. How do you, well, one, I guess this is a two part question. In the survey, did you survey people who had already gone through a process and are currently now in a safe space and transitioning into a better life? And were you able to find people who are kind of still in the space, who are still trying to figure it out, who are still trying to get away from an abusive spouse, bring safety for themselves and their kids, et cetera. And did you see any coalition there when it came to that? - Yeah, so the survey was done by the Indiana Coalition Against Domestic Balance and they do have it, it's published, it's on their website. So you could go to check that out to see what the population was. So I don't know what the demographics was as far outside of domestic violence survivors.

And for, with our program, when we do surveys and we do evaluations, and when we were doing the transition, you know, we had some survivors say, you know, wow, I like what you all are transitioning to because I would have preferred to have had support while I was still in the abusive relationship and not come to shelter, right? And we're like, yeah, like that's what we want too. So to hear that from a survivor was powerful in doing the transition. And then to continue to hear that, I was doing, pulling our surveys just this recent

for some of our funders. And, you know, just seeing that survivors were saying things like, you know, I don't know where I would have been. You know, I was able to figure this out. I was able to get housing. I was able to do these different things that, you know, I don't know that I would have had the courage to be able to do. So I think, you know, it's kind of changing the frame, like our mind frame of who can we support before it gets to the worst situation.

And I think with how we've looked at it as a, I guess as a movement is we're focusing on the worst incident. But what we want to kind of reframe is let's do something before it gets to that worst incident. So when we meet with people and the way that we are communicating that to anyone who's receiving services, or, you know, if you know someone who's experiencing these things, they don't have to have a serious altercation in order to qualify for services. Like get them services when they're questioning, is this a healthy relationship? Like what, I don't feel comfortable. Like maybe they're, you know, calling me out of my name a lot. And maybe they're telling me what I should wear. And I don't know if that's okay. Talk to us, right? Give us a call and we can like support some of that and really talk that out with you. Because ultimately, you know, we're not telling anybody what to do. We're asking them like, what do you want in your relationship? And what is healthy to you? Like, how does that make you feel when they're calling you out of your name and telling you what you need to wear? And, you know, is that helpful for you? Is that what you want, right? So it's really about supporting somebody before they even get to that situation. - So in this preventative stage, and this is impressive, I think. So in this preventative stage, if I heard you correctly, so yesterday in an emergency phase, it was physical violence first, and then we could care, but anything psychological, emotional, financial, we didn't see that as an emergency until the services weren't rendered. But in this new model, it's an education preventative position where when you meet all those different levels of violence, care is now available. - Yes. - Wow, okay. - Yeah. - Okay. - And it's not to diminish the need for that emergency care, right? Because we know that that is still a need, but, you know, let's try to do something different where we can support somebody before it gets to that, right? Like wouldn't you rather if, you know, if someone showed up and said, "Hey, if you take this medication "and exercise and diet today, right, "you'll be able to avoid, you know, "I'm predicting your future, right? "You'll be able to avoid this heart attack in two weeks." - Yeah. - Wouldn't you want to do the preventative stuff? - I mean, you know, some people, not me, y'all. - Yeah, well, yeah, you know, I'll do everything but the medication, but yeah, I'm with you. - I was like, you know. - I was like, you know. - Like it is, you know, so like that's something to just say, think about, right? It's like, why not have the prevention instead of having the cure, right? Like why not think about those things first? - Yeah, no, I'm with you. I think about my daughter, right? She's 19 years old. She's exploring, you know, relationships and, you know, I think about the education- - Oh boy, I'm sorry. - platform, right? Yeah, yeah, true story, you know what I mean? And we come from a life of domestic violence. Like she hasn't had the experience that, which is great, you know, but her mom or grandma. In some sense, it's part of the heritage, right? It just goes along the journey. But I love the idea that if there were folks, and so this is gonna lead to a question, we're talking preventative violence, right? How do we identify safe relationships? How do we identify, you know, when something could potentially go awry? What are red flags in that space? I mean, I think that is super helpful for young women and young men alike who are going through that journey. So now I've got a question in a sense, a preventative model, right? Where is this being produced, educated? Are you starting, you know, definitely in Southern Indiana, in our last podcast, we talk about, you know, sexual assault and some of the violence that happens to youth here locally. We talked about a stat that came out in 21, where there was like 181% increase in domestic violence in 98, I think there were 98 deaths in Clark County alone. So where are we teaching? Where is this an ongoing education space? What age are you putting it out there and so on? - Yeah, so we get into the schools, right? So generally middle school, some high school, and to talk about those healthy relationships, right? So we have different types of exercises. You mentioned the red flag. So one of those exercises that we can do is red flag, green flag. And we talk about the different types of relationships and that sometimes it's not always black and white. It's not always like clear. People can be in a relationship and maybe feel like, well, that was okay, right? So like an example of that would be, we call it kind of the honeymoon phase, where you are lovey-dovey, you know, you're texting all the time and calling, you're like, where are you at boo? You know, that kind of thing. And there's a period of time where it's like, okay, yeah, you're getting to know that person. But then when it becomes, this is now just how it is all the time, you have to say where you are. Now you're starting to feel uncomfortable because it's like, well, I'm with my friends. Why do you keep calling me? Like, you know, what's happening? So then it starts to move into their red flag area. So having those nuanced conversations, I think has been helpful in just hearing the students like talk about that kind of stuff. And they are smart. Like they will bring some stuff out in the conversation. You're like, ooh, let me write that down. Like that's a good point, but like in the schools, right? But again, like we talked about before the mics came on about the community helping, right? We are still a small team. Like I have a team of, there's nine of us, including me. And there's a lot of schools out there. There's a lot of things that need to happen in order to support the schools, right? So we try to partner with other organizations as well. So like with family and children's plays, we partner with them to do school activities. And, you know, I think it's important for organizations to also know that we are all in this together. So if it makes sense that the work that you're doing can contribute to, you know, balance prevention in our community, let's partner and let's figure out like how we can get into the schools and be able to support that. - Gotcha, gotcha. - So when we were talking about these changes that have occurred in, you know, just the last 11 years that you've been there, but the last, you know, 20, it all comes down to finances is what we kind of identified. That, can you explain that? Was there more money before or are we in a situation now that you are working on being equitable and making sure that your advocates are well compensated? How does that all work? - Yeah, so I feel like every answer is always, it pulls down the money. - Yeah, yes, but money though. - Yeah, it's like we could do all the great things, but if we don't have the money, we don't have the people and we don't have the services, right? So I think it's just that that trickle effect. And so the way that we receive funding, so we have, you know, government federal funding, right? We have the state and the local funding, and then we have local donors. So regular individuals who say, I'm gonna write a check for $100,000. Listen, if that's you, go ahead and write that check. So we have like those different levels of funders. So when we look at applying for these different funding sources and grants, they have stipulations on what they want and the things that they need in order to give the money. So sometimes that means you pass up on that grant. Sometimes that means you don't qualify for that grant because, you know, that's not the services that you're going to provide.

And also sometimes, and just recently actually, and we've went through this before, where some grants get just cut in general. So I don't know if you're familiar with the cuts that are happening right now with VOCA. - We actually just talked about that with our last guest. - So real quick, for a lot of people, they don't know what VOCA is. Can you explain what VOCA is? - Oh man, I'm so used to talking in the acronyms. See, it's- - Victims of crime? - Yeah, Victims of Crime Act. - Okay, and it's a federal fund that supports all the states. - Yes. - Is that correct? - Yes. - Okay, okay. And so when they send money into Indiana, that gets trickled down through whatever county request. How does that work, do you know? - So the Indiana Criminal Justice Institute, they kind of, I don't know the real term for it, but they kind of own the distribution of those funds. Is that what you're asking? - Yeah, yeah.

- So VOCA is one of the funds that they kind of own and hold. But the cuts occurred because some of the changes, like with our previous administration, and now we're continuing to see those cuts happen. And when those cuts happen, that impacts how we're doing our services, that impact staffing, and it changes a lot. And it's not something that just happens randomly, it continues to happen. We've had major cuts since I've been in this work three times. - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. - And it's impacted just everything. Like when I was first here, it was a major impact to shelter. There were some shelter cuts that took place. And then that, again, kind of contributes to the financial scope of how we're operating things. - And I think that that's such an important perspective to know that every time these cuts happen, and it's something I really wanted to name in the conversation with you. I know healthy families experience these cuts, and I wanted to say it was around this same time, it was like 11, 12 years ago. And it was the situation that before that, we were able to provide services to way more families. But all of that, families of all economic, all income levels, and those cuts happened, and it drastically changed the number of families that could be served in the area. But also, it really limited not families only 250% of poverty and below. So you are narrowing your population, and people get frustrated, and they blame you for what you're not able to do now.

And I think as someone in the service provider community, I'd say, yeah, the rhetoric was the center is not doing this. The center is not supporting people in this way. And what is not being seen is, if you keep cutting our funding, what do you expect us to do? - Yeah, it's like you have to re-prioritize, right? And I hate using this phrase, but the biggest bang for your buck, you know? It would have had a bad one. - That's exactly how we looked at it too. - So it's like really figuring out, how can you, do you need a restructure? Do you need, and we don't wanna lay people off, right? And we talked earlier about the fact that advocates, like social service, they don't get paid enough. - No, no. - They don't, they don't get paid enough for what they do. And so trying to maintain services can be challenging when funding is getting cut. - So as someone who is, this is gonna end up being a two-part question, I think, but for someone who has been on the ground, boots on the ground, involved, direct work, and now someone who is in leadership, understanding that there's this cycle of cuts that are happening industry-wide, right? Specific to DV or interpersonal violence, was this one of the reasons that you, or you all decided to shift to a preventative model? Does that help in these financial gaps? And then is there an advocate or lobbyist, either at the state or local, or even at the fed level, who advocates for the state of Indiana and its needs? - Yes, so yes, so a part of that decision was understanding the finances, right? And the transition that, you know, how things were going, it wasn't sustainable, right? So figuring out, okay, what, again, that biggest bang for the buck, right? And that's when we did the research to figure out, okay, like what are survivors saying? Okay, well, survivors are saying this. So how can we implement that? What does that look like? Okay, so what programs have already started to think in this way? So reaching out to those programs and getting, you know, a consultation, getting a consultation with them. And then making the hard decision to kind of change the way of life, right? Like the way of life of how we were operating before.

So money is always some piece of the puzzle. And then when it comes to the advocating, so we do have, we're members of the Indiana Coalition Against Domestic Balance and the Indiana Coalition to End Sexual Assault and Human Trafficking. So both of them have, they do some lobbying and they're able to kind of advocate for us. So they advocate for an increase, they advocate for the different laws that are coming out that are going to impact our, impact survivors and our services as providers. So they're, they're asking us like, okay, what are you seeing? What are you hearing? And then they're able to advocate for us because we have some limitations as far as what we can do as a nonprofit, some of the legal ramifications around that, that we're not able to do any of the lobbying ourselves. - Gotcha, gotcha. Thank you. So man, that's a, that's a, that's a bit, like it's a complex web. Like, so when you hear like, Missy and I are constantly talking about the void of services or the void of opportunity. And sometimes being on the outside looking and you're like, man, why are we not doing this? Now we're, this is kind of a baseline of why we can't or why we shouldn't be, but understand that models have to change. And I think a lot of businesses, nonprofit, or otherwise realize that coming out of COVID, but this is, you're saying this is something that's systemic in a sense of a constant depletion of revenue or opportunities for funding. And I wonder now what that model looks like three or four years going down the road with the next cycle of administration that's going to come through. Is there any way to predict that? - You know, if, if you, if you figure out a way, you let me know. - Okay.

(both laughing) - I think that, I think how, how we've been kind of just taught to look at is that there will always be a cut coming. - Wow. - Right. That we'll give, like funding will happen, funding will, will come and then expect some cuts to happen because things are going to shift and change, whether that's the federal level or on the state level. Right. And then you have to think about even like, with state level, your stomach's still around.

(both laughing) - She's got something to say. - She does. Yes. - Like even at that state level, right? Like we, other organizations, like we don't talk about federal too. We don't talk about it's competitive. Like we're competing for it. - So that's another question. Who in this area, I mean, we don't want to name people who don't want to empower anyone, but like, I don't think also that people realize that, that when you put out things, they're called RFPs or request for proposals. It's a real dumb way to do things. But when you put out these RFPs and you're asking people to bid and to compete for this money,

it creates a situation where you can't get out of your silos. You can't work together and reach across the aisle and say, Hey, what are your barriers? See if we can overcome those because you can't show your weakness. You can't show your back to someone who's coming for you. So instead of reaching out and forming partnerships with other people doing this work, you're competitors. So you stay in your space, I'll stay in my space because you're going to come for this contract. And that makes it really hard to get things done. - So you're saying there are fiefdoms within the nonprofits who are supposed to be out here serving the people. - Oh no. - We're supposed to be able to work together. And when you create these situations, you make it very difficult. Even in this conversation, I'm mindful. It's like, let's not show your cards too much because this is the reality when you work with nonprofits. - But then how do we really serve the people of where we're out here hiding, right? You know, we're all fighting for a pool of money that is supposed to support those who are in a traumatic need, right? And so that we can all thrive and how we, you know, that's a crazy concept to say, Hey, we're going to take this pool of money. We're going to make everybody fight for it. And your job is to help serve the community, but we're going to create trauma within you. - Yeah. - That's the unknown. - That's how wicked ass system. - The always the unknown of I'm all in, I'm 10 toes down. Someone could come and take this from me. - So how do we measure for success if we're creating scarcity within our own organizations? - That's such a good question. And those of us who existed kind of before RFPs for the norm, this wasn't the case that we could reach across and say, you need help, we need help. This is what we're dealing with. Are you dealing with the same thing? Let's give some feedback and say, we've tried this. It didn't work. What have you tried? We could have those conversations.

And when we start competing, everything changes. - So, and I know this is probably not the right question for this space, but I'm going to ask it anyway. So if we have institutions that are serving our community, but they're not actually doing the work, they're getting the money, they're getting access to resources, but they're not distributing the resources accordingly to the greater mission, right? And that is to support and help people who are facing some degree of obstacle within the spaces. Why, what is stopping us from naming them? - So that's what the RFP is really there to, in design to fix. It's designed to fix those who are not doing the work effectively, that when they do their RFP process, you should be able to see that in their numbers. And they're reporting out and how, you know, the model that they say that they're using,

that should show itself. And that's the hope. Now, whether or not that's happening, because I'm not on the other side scoring these things. And that's how you do it with an RFP. You score the applications, they get points for each thing. If it's a woman owned business or a minority owned business, you get so many points. - We jumping on that bandwagon. We already know that. - No, we've talked about that. - That's a shit storm. - Yeah, we've talked about that. - Sorry, whoever's listening, y'all already know our cousin. She hit the trigger.

(both laughing) - But that's how it's supposed to out itself. - Got you. - What we have seen happen, and I'm curious, and maybe if you've seen this too, it almost goes the other way. People who are doing the work well, but if someone, if the contract holder has, not the contract holder, the money holder has a motive, then they'll take that contract from people who are doing the work really well and give it to over here who they have a partnership with, who will do it for cheaper. - So at some capacity, we're creating disparity within, again, like I said, disparity in our own spaces that are supposed to be doing the work. It makes it a little harder for those who are out here doing the work for real. We're creating scarcity, right? By putting people, fitting, I guess, yeah, putting people against each other, who are, should be, I mean, who have the ability to really focus on serving those who are in need. But instead, you've got, and this is, I guess, maybe a leadership question, because, you know, when you're in leadership and you're no longer boots on the ground doing the work, right, you're probably more center-focused on how do we keep funding, and how do we keep growing, or how do we scale, or whatever those magical words are that nonprofits use versus others, but then your folks on the ground are probably feeling the pain of depletion, so to speak, right, both morally, financially. And, man, I do wonder how that also feeds back to the community that we're serving. - You know, I think that is, like, one of the conversations we had before we went on mic is when people, and we mentioned this in our last conversation, too, when people who do this work and they do it with a passion are said, "That is your compensation," that you get to go home and say, "I made a difference, "and therefore I can pay you nothing." And when the people that you serve either make the same as, or more than you, you're like, "I also feel the same pain that you do "and do not know how to help you effectively "because I am in that same boat." And so that's also part of it, is when you start cutting these funds, you are cutting the pay of the people who are doing the work, and therefore you're demoralizing them in that way, and you are creating situations where transference can happen. They're like, "I also feel that pain." - Gotcha. - Yeah. - They don't stick around, and we have that high turnover, because, you know, what I have noticed is that the passion brings people in the door, and the money leads them out, like leads them out of the door, right? Because they realize, "I can't pay my bills on passion." - Exactly. - Right, right. - They won't take it for my mortgage pay. - Yeah, they refuse it, they return to sender.

So, and that is, I've had to have those hard conversations, you know, with an employee that, you know, I'm sorry, but your, the salary is determined by the funders and what we're able to get for it. And there's a standard, basically, that they look at, like across the state of how much are people in these type of positions making? And then if you jump above that, like that doesn't obviously look good, right? So I think it's just, it's more of a systemic issue than just a one organization, right? It has to, change has to happen on that higher level to really make an impact as far as bringing up staff pay, right? - Wow. So, man, it's such a tangled web. It really is, and it's gotta make it harder to do the work every day at all levels. Wow, that's unfortunate. I wonder, and so in our last podcast, you know, we had talked to Jenny and said, you know, have we reached out to our local mayors? Like if we're getting federal, federal funds are being cut, and of course that affects the state, but is there a way? - Can we talk about why? - Why are federal funds being cut for victims of crime? - Yeah. - When, where's that money going to instead? And why is it okay? Why is it okay to take it from the marginalized, from those who've already had harm done to them? So yes, so continue, but yeah, use it. - But is there alternative funding resources, alternative ways to galvanize our local elected officials because we have our own dollars in many cases, and I don't know if they are, but like, you know, you think about where sitting right now in Floyd County. So New Albany is an incorporated community, but the county itself is an unincorporated space, so it's got two different funding sources. So if you're in the rural part of the county, then the county commissioners and the county council kind of govern there, but here in New Albany, the mayor governs here. Do our nonprofits who are in, you know, this work, DV work specifically, are we reaching out to our local municipalities for funding? - That's a good question. I don't have an answer for it. - Okay, okay. - Primarily because like that's not my wheelhouse. Like as far as I going to do the funding, we do have a development VP, and that's kind of their role to go out and build those relationships and to talk about some of those community resources that we have, like the bigger community resources. So kind of my role is really about the programmatic side of it. So when they are writing for a grant, I have to be able to show the numbers, be able to show the work that's happening. So we talked about the RFPs and all of that. So like we get audits. I have to be able to show, have a clean audit, and I've under my leadership, we have passed all of them. So I'm, yeah, that's great. - Yeah, that's great. Congrats. - But like, you know, so that's kind of my responsibility to make sure that we don't lose funding because something we're doing.

Versus we can't control what losing funding because of economy or because of laws or the administration and things like that. So I think that's kind of the struggle is that, you know, I'm trying to support as best I can, but there's stuff that's still out of our control when it comes to the funding piece. - So if there are listeners out there who want to help, just like we said last time, I wonder if one of the action steps in the calls to action would be call your local people and identify, you know, if people are saying we need more services or, you know, then that conversation has to happen at all levels of local government and imagine what we would do in a vacuum. If families are left in situations that they can't get out and can't get safe, or at least get the support to figure out how to make a plan. I know that's a big part of what mobile advocacy is, let's make a plan together. And how do we stay safe? And how do you know if you're safe? And how do you know if you're not? What if there's no one out there having that conversation with these families? And if the funds continue to be cut, that could be the reality we're looking at. And it's not a place that any of us want to figure out what that looks like. - So, Zanebe, in programming, I know we're gonna have to wrap up here in a second, but I'm curious, you know, looking at the future of here in Southern Indiana, the work that you're doing, are there any blockages? Are there any blind spots as it relates to current services in the mobility space that you're looking at and saying, "Okay, these are things that we're gonna have to, we're gonna have to counter in the near future." - I would say on a programmatic level, we're seeing more need around legal services. And, you know, when someone has the criminal case that's going on, or family, or, you know, civil, a lot of times we see that the abuse can continue to happen through the legal justice system.

And your rent is more than $800 a month. Like that's, you know, definitely where we know people are not making a livable wage, but I can't be, I can't imagine being in some type of trauma or some type of emergency issue within family. And I have kids and I have to meet all these different needs. Affordable housing, I think across the board is something that we have to address and definitely have to look at those who are, we're allowing to buy up properties independently and don't live here and then just manipulate living standards like that. That's just nuts. I can't imagine facing that. I wonder though, just cause you know, I'm an idea guy and I'm gonna just keep throwing it out there. I wonder if this is a space where maybe the nonprofits come together in the future and build housing, right? Because we realized that this is a blockage. This is something that's gonna rear its head and it's already reared its head, but maybe this is something that they can control. - I know some nonprofits are. And then when they put up the housing and they call it affordable and it is nowhere near affordable, it's just like market price. But I also know that there have been some studies and some case studies recently of people who are staying together in a cohabitation space, couples who don't have violence, but they're instead of separating and going their separate ways as people would have in the past, they're choosing to live together because they cannot afford and there is no housing to allow them to separate. - I saw that movie, it was called "War to Roses." They both died, I don't see why that's safe. - Oh, that's, oh man. (laughing) I don't think I have seen that movie.

I'm a little younger than that, I think. (laughing)

But imagine though, if you're in, again, imagine if you, people who can do that because they can be civil, but imagine if you're in a space where you're not safe and you have to get out. - Yeah. - What, we are really leaving people with very few choices and very few options. - Lot to think about today, lot to process. - It is, it is. Anibia, I know, I would love to hear from you if people need your services and they need the support. How do they get those? How do they reach you? - Yes, I'm glad you asked. - Yes.

So on this podcast, whether you're on Apple, Spotify, or if you're listening to it on our Facebook or our website, there is a link somewhere that is probably three letters or more dot event, right? Because I don't think I've published it yet. - I don't think it's been published yet, but also if you go on Common Convoe. - Yes, CommonConvo.tv. You will see all our listings. You'll see every event that's coming up. You'll get an opportunity to see most of our speakers that are gonna be in all our projects this year. And you can also follow all the podcasts there because we also published them there as well. So yes, Missy, there is a whole website that I never mentioned. - Never. - There's actually two, which is scary. - I don't know about the second one. - But there's CommonConvo, there's CommonConversations.com. And that is only for the podcast. Like it is an actual website where all the podcasts live in order for every podcast I've ever, no, I can't say ever done because we've been on multiple platforms, but on this particular platform, which is hosted by Captivate. However, the CommonConvo.tv is all the things that we have produced this year. And it has been a long, busy, fun year. So all the Lunch and Learns are there. The YouTube channel is also connected there. So if you wanna go back and watch, you can do that. And then yes, on there it says events, little tab right over top, click it. And all the things. - All the things are there. And you can RSVP and let us know your coming so we make sure we have food for you. - No, we're not feeding you. We're feeding you food for thought, food for engagement, food for the belly and food for the belly. So yes, if you sign up, there will be food for you. So if you sign up and don't show up, there's food for somebody else. (laughing) - Please don't do that. Yes. - Right, it costs money. - Look, good people, this is Common Convo. We appreciate you. This has been a great episode, a great program and conversation about domestic violence. And all the things that we face are the challenges, the opportunities, how we serve our community. And we're gonna continue these conversations. And I think more and more that we have them, the more questions I have, and I hope the more questions you have and that you will take this regardless of where you are in your space, whether you're in the United States or somewhere else, whether you're in Clark County or Louisville, Jefferson County, and you will begin to think about how we serve our community at large and build a safe space for all of us and brave spaces. So Missy, any outwards? - Other than I'm super excited to get our panelists together on October 27th, I think it's gonna be really incredible. - Cool beings, October 27th, keep your eye open.

Any last questions or statements from you, my friend? - No, just thank you for the time. I'm looking forward to October as well. - Cool beings. Everybody, this is Common Convoy, this is your boy, Guelly Guell, and we are out of here. I will see y'all on the next episode. And oh, if you are listening, wink wink, I am start recording and producing a sex version of Common Conversations on the 8th, 9th, and 10th of September, and this will be a whole vlog series

that's gonna be thrown out through the world. And it's really borderline around consent,

as well as how do we have conversations about sex, pleasure with our children, with ourselves. We're gonna tackle a lot of taboo conversation there. It's gonna be fun. We're gonna do roughly 10 episodes, so keep your eyes on the urge period for that as well. Appreciate you, love you, pieces. - Bye friends.

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