Today, you're going to meet the change leadership guru. Jesse Jacoby is the founder of the business consulting service Emergent, which focuses on organizational change management and business transformations. Jessie is exactly the subject matter expert we need right now, to help us all transition into this new way of doing business. We will benefit from his experience, and expertise to navigate this new normal, and avoid pitfalls along the way.

02:28 – How Jan and Jesse met

04:39 – Jesse’s background – developing a strong work ethic

06:30 – Joining Accenture to satisfy curiosity about the workings of large corporations

07:47 – Started consulting business, Emergent

10:10 – Why so many change efforts fail

13:45 – Qualities of authentic leaders

17:29 – Figuring out a flexible work model, companies with a culture of trust have a huge advantage

21:51 – Remember this is an ongoing process

25:56 – The dangers of inconsistency

29:26 – The importance of leading by example

34:09 – Remembering the human element of change

38:35– What Jesse would say to his 25-year-old self

41:38 – How Jesse starts his day

Please share your thoughts on this episode, email me at Jan@gravitasdetroit.com,  I'd love to hear from you.

[Transcript]

00:04

Welcome to the Finding Gravitas podcast brought to you by Gravitas Detroit. Looking to become a more authentic leader. Finding Gravitas is the podcast for you. Gravitas is the ultimate leadership quality that draws people in. It's an irresistible force encompassing all the traits of authentic leadership. Join your podcast host Jan Griffiths that passionate rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales, entrepreneur, leadership coach, keynote speaker, one of the top 100 leading women in the automotive industry as she interviews some of the finest leadership minds in the quest for Gravitas.

Hello, Finding Gravitas audience. Today, I have a special guest on the show. Most of my guests are senior level leaders who are known to be authentic leaders and they share with us their stories, and how they practice Authentic Leadership every day. From time to time, I like to bring on the show a subject matter expert who goes deeper into one specific area of leadership. For example, we've had Kathy Mott talking to us about emotional intelligence. Dr. Steve todman, the mindset expert. Today, you're going to meet the change leadership guru. Yep, that's the title I'm giving him because I believe that's exactly what he is. You're going to meet Jesse Jacoby. And I believe that now is the perfect time for us to listen to what Jesse has to say. We're all navigating this return to the office trying to figure out how to lead through this process, how to lead the hybrid team. There's a lot of change. Jessie is going to share with us his insights from his experience to help us make that happen. Jesse Jacoby, welcome to the show. Thanks, Jan. It's great to be here. You are on today as a subject matter expert, and you are indeed an authentic leader in your own right, and we're going to hear your story. I want to share with the audience how you and I met. Several months ago, my good friend, Phil Eisen, from the art of procurement had curated a rather spectacular webinar. And Phil has this unique ability to find great people, great subject matter experts that can indeed contribute to his audience. And I had the pleasure of being the emcee for the event. And I received Jessie slides ahead of the event. And I was so excited, I couldn't wait to talk to him. The slides about Inspire to action with a brain on one side that said analyze think act, and then a heart on the other the said, See feel act, and then a structure around change leadership. I was beyond excited. I couldn't wait to meet him. And what I love about Jesse is that he really gets it. He knows the people side to change leadership, why things go wrong, and more importantly, what you need to do to make sure they don't go wrong. And I couldn't think of a better time to have you on the show right now, Jessie, at this time when we're coming to the end of the pandemic, and we're all thinking about returning to work. Change leadership is at the forefront. So this is a perfect time for you to share your wisdom, knowledge and insights with our audience, rather a long intro. So Jesse Jacoby, tell us your story. And why are you qualified to be a subject matter expert on change leadership?

04:14

Thanks, Jen for that overly generous introduction. I wasn't always a change and transformation expert. In fact, I came from humble roots. And if I could just step back and give you a quick synopsis of my background, I think it would help explain.

Please, right from the beginning. We make people go right from the beginning where you were born, we want to know it all. Throw it out there.

04:39

Jesse, you help a lot of clients every day, with changed leadership. You have a structure. You know what you do, and you've had tremendous success. What kinds of clients do you work with? I know, it's much more than supply chain, but give us a sense of the types of companies that you work within the types of change leadership that you deal with, I'd love to know that.

08:49

Yeah, size wise, we serve the fortune 500 and large middle market companies, they tend to have the most need and the most complexity when it comes to the change and transformation programs that are driving and so we like to get plopped into that fray and help them figure it out. And we're industry agnostic. So we've helped tech companies, as I mentioned, what the future of work currently, we've also worked with automotive companies much like yourself, retail, consumer packaged goods, healthcare, manufacturing oil and gas and transportation companies, many high profile names that you would recognize, and we work cross functionally within the organizations but we find ourselves most closely partnering with HR it and finance leaders.

I think, Jesse, you know, let's, let's get right to the point here, right. There's that statistic out there that says 70% of change initiatives fail. And I've seen it time and time again in my career, where people totally underestimate the leadership and the people side of it, the people impact getting the piece To believe in the change, what have you seen with your career? And what is the number one reason why you see change initiatives fail.

10:10

All too often clients use a haphazard approach, coffee chats with a few stakeholders, some rah rah messaging from executives sending out a few email communications. Instead of change strategy should be a part of your program's DNA, it needs to be well planned and executed, and you need change expertise from the get go embedded in your program team. So that implies that the people leading these big transformation programs get it and know to bring in the change management discipline early. A few other common pitfalls that I think contribute to that 70% failure rate include viewing change as an event. In reality change is a process and people move through that process at different rates. Also, over reliance on human resources, you can't outsource change management to the HR department. It needs to be led by the business with senior leaders serving as evangelists in modeling behaviors, adopting new ways of working. It's especially important during times of change inside a company or organization, all eyes are on the leaders. And so it's a great opportunity for them to lead by example. And the other pitfall that I see often is communicating only when answers are known, and only relying on communication. Instead of you know, live one on one engagement and, you know, having imperfect information, that's okay, it's a journey, sharing what you know, when you know, it is uncomfortable for a lot of leaders, but yet it's it's what's needed. And lastly, and you've alluded to it with the heart and the brain presentation, is appealing only to the rational, logical side of people. A good business case with quantitative data is necessary, but it's not inspiring, really good change, leaders will aim to demonstrate change in highly visible ways and inspire people at an emotional level. So you need both heart and mind appeal.

See, this is where I see change leadership and authentic leadership coming together. Right? a good leader, an authentic leader will understand that will we'll be able to connect with people at a very deep level, will be able to galvanize people around the vision will be able to tell the story, to bring the stakeholders in together as as well as understand the numbers and the structure and the the event and the business side of it and the transactional side of it. And that's very much a part of authentic leadership. Do you see authentic leaders? Do you see that leadership style? What How do I say this gaining traction in the business world today? Do you see people moving more away from command and control? And just it's all about the numbers to a deeper understanding and connecting people? what's what's your experience tell you?

13:22

It really depends on the company, the industry, a lot of times and the individual leaders, you know, some get it Some are very good at being authentic leaders. And others are more classic command control hierarchical, right. I see both, and they both still exist, and there's lots of gray space in between. But when I you know think of authentic leadership and what that means, you know, a few things come to mind. And I love this when I see these characteristics and a leader. One is being self aware and knowing your own knowledge, skills, abilities, as well as strengths, weaknesses and limitations, right? That's self awareness, and being able to navigate within your own personal limitations. Also, not compromising your values while trying to please others. I find that a very authentic leader characteristic. also being able to formulate your own unique perspective to challenges and offering up original solutions. This is something I do to try to stay authentic and similarly boldly presenting points of view, even when they're contrarian. In fact, sometimes that's exactly what is needed, and not being afraid to be unconventional and step out of the box in terms of thinking and ideas.

Yes, well, that's a very good description of authentic leadership. And as you know, Gravitas is the hallmark of authentic leadership because I say it is But that might not be the technical definition of Gravitas, but I believe that it is. So if you had to describe Gravitas, what is Gravitas to you?

15:10

It's made up of several interesting characteristics, and I tried to exhibit these. But when I think of Gravitas, I think of being a good listener. This one has always been a challenge for me personally, but it's something I continually work on. Also having empathy, being able to put yourself in the shoes of others and perceiving what they're perceiving, and also building personal rapport and connection. This is something that's often overlooked in business consulting, and business transactions. But that personal relationship with a fellow colleague or consultant client, is incredibly important as as foundational to getting to the next level things and work that needs to get done. Also, as simple as this may sound being kind, we've all heard the golden rule, right? treat others the way you want to be treated. I prefer the Platinum rule, treat others the way they want to be treated. And I also assume good intent. This is part of Gravitas, assuming good intent from others. And lastly, and this might sound trite and unexciting, but when these attributes are brought to bear in client situations, you know, they are the intangibles that draw clients to you and repeat clients back to you.

Yeah, that yes, yes. That Well said, I love that. I love that definition. Jesse, many leaders out there are grappling with this idea right now of a hybrid work team, a hybrid work structure. And many of the leaders have been tasked with, okay, figure it out. What's it going to be? Is it going to be three days a week in the office three days a week from home? What are what's what's, what's the plan? What are other people doing? What's the cookie cutter approach? What's the silver bullet? What whatever right? What advice would you give those leaders as they grapple with this, this changing work environment, specifically ones that have been tasked with figuring out?

17:29

Yeah, they were trying to figure it out. And the it being a more distributed flexible work model, they were trying to figure it out before COVID. But then COVID, came along and simply forced their hand and accelerated the process of needing to figure it out. So with COVID, you know, the snowglobe has been shaken the house has been knocked down. Now pick a metaphor. But now is the time to resettle and rebuild, how we work when we work, where we work in new and better ways. And it's interesting, I'm working with a Silicon Valley tech company at the moment, helping them figure out their future of work strategy. And this is something most companies are struggling to solve at the moment. And the companies that have a culture of trust, have a huge advantage. Because with trust, you can then allow maximum flexibility, with your employees flexibility, meaning, their autonomy, to choose, when, where and how they work. That requires a lot of trust, to allow your workforce to do that. So the companies that have that trust already in their culture, are many steps ahead of the companies who don't have a trust based culture. But the flexibility is key. flexibility in the way we work when we work and how we work is what's going to attract talent, retain talent. And there's been a lot of research done, that flexibility equates to productivity, you're not doing the commute, you can easily adapt your schedule, and micro increments working around your children's school schedule, right or household chores. So there is a ton of productivity gain. It plays to attrition, it plays to retention and attraction, and getting this balance right of putting in place the right amount of flexibility without having it turned into the Wild West. And a free for all is the art of future of work. And there is no one size fits all. It all depends on the company's culture needs, size, and many other factors. And so it's an exciting time for sure. But there's a lot of work to be done to get this right.

Yes, I ran a webinar recently called the harnessing the power of To restart with some strategies to help people think through this into to work through this with their teams. And we ran a survey, pre webinar survey. And that and combined with conversations that I've had with colleagues and clients indicate that the number one fear right now is that leaders, senior level leaders actually want the culture to go back to the way it used to be pre COVID. And that, to me is a tremendous missed opportunity. If we allow that to happen. I maintain that now is the time for authentic leadership to come freight front and center. And if that really is the number one for you, honestly, I was I was a bit shocked Jesse, I thought that we will be on that. I thought that the pandemic had shaken us, you know, you talk about the snow globe, I agree, I thought that it had shaken us to our core, I talked about the fabric of our normality has been ripped apart through the pandemic, and that we were much more open, our minds were much more open to change now than ever before. But clearly, that's not the case. Because people, senior level leaders, not all but wanted to go back, maybe it's the need for safety and security. To go back to the way things were and you must have seen this behavior in many of the change transformations that you've run with clients over the years. So what would you say to leaders who are perhaps working with either working for a CEO who's thinking that way? Or to the CEO or senior leader themselves? Who might be at this moment, listen to the podcast thinking, yeah, I can't wait to get everybody back in the office where I can see them and control them, and go back to the way it used to be. Because I felt safe. I was in control. I had my power position. We were making money, it was all good. What would you say to those people?

21:58

One much like change management, this future of work. solutioning is a process. It's it's not an event, right? This is gonna take some time, it took, you know, hundreds of years to get to where we are today in terms of how we work. And to think that we can pivot so drastically in the course of a few months or a year or even a few years, is foolhardy. And so this, this will take time. So, advice point number one is recognize this as a process. Point number two is, don't be afraid to experiment and try different approaches. This is not a one and done, we need to get it right etched in stone out of the gate, you know, position this as an opportunity for us to try out new ways of working. That's perfectly okay your your employees, your organization will appreciate being part of that process of trying out new things and experimenting and learning as we go and adapting. Thirdly, listen to your employees. If you are not heavily engaging, and surveys and focus groups, and two way dialogue around the future of work and their preferences, you're missing a huge opportunity. You can triangulate the preferences of your leaders with that of your employees with what the market research is telling us. Put it all together in smart ways and figure out what will work with your own organization and your your unique culture.

Yeah, put it together in smart ways. I like the way you said that, because that's something that you're particularly good at right is putting a structure together around things that are usually difficult to get your your arms around, I was thinking about your slide on stakeholder alignment, and the impact of different parts of change during the change process. I love the way that you you do that you can put structure to these things. But I think you're right. And your point is well taken. This is a process. This isn't something that's you know, it's going to be one and done. And it's going to be different for everybody. And I think people are they're just not comfortable with that right there. They just, they're not comfortable with this idea that it's okay to be wrong. It's okay to say hey, we tried this, it didn't work very well. We're gonna try something different. The other fear that I have is well, too, there's one that leaders are going to sit in a conference room and come up with a policy and you know, have it run through about four different levels of scrutiny and say, here it is and posted on the internet and off you go right. That's my note. That's that's a fear. But the other one is that if you take a large company, they're going to have many different leaders in the company, you're going to have some leaders who will embrace this A world of flexibility, who have a more trusting environment and trust in culture with their team. And it's going to work beautifully. And they're going to go through trial and error, and they're going to continuously improve and the process and it will evolve, and it'll be great. And then there will be other leaders in the same company, who will take whatever the policy the company comes up with an interpreted, you know, in a very strict, stringent way, and put people back in the office as often as they possibly can. And those two leaders could could be working in the same company. I am not sure I have the answer on how you deal with that other than it's up to the very senior level leadership to model the example with their own behavior, and not tell people they can work from home and then have all their executive meetings face to face in the office every single day. So what what do you have to say on that subject?

25:56

Yeah, they almost needed a change leadership function, right? People that are looking out for all these things, because it's, it's gonna, it's going to evolve, it's going to just happen. And I think that leaders need to be aware that this kind of thing is going to happen and talk about it. And that's, that's open open the communication lines.

28:07

The other thing I'll add to that, Jan is, there is another pitfall that companies solving for future of work need to watch out for. And that is saying things publicly, this could be the CEO, or board members or other senior leaders, you know, in the media in the press, saying one thing, but then doing something very different internally with the employees, the employees will see that immediately, and acknowledge the discrepancy. And there's incredible brand and reputational harm that could be done. If if they're saying one thing publicly and doing something very different internally. So it's another Watch out for sure.

Excellent point. Yeah. And they have to model the behavior, they have to model what they what they say, the company is doing. Right, you can't just say that you're going to have all this flexibility and then not have it at the executive level. Yeah, I totally agree. And there's something that you presented a slide that I remember and you said, you know, telling is okay, showing is better. Tell us a little bit more about that.

29:26

It's one thing to communicate what's changing, right, and that's another to live live it demonstrated model. In fact, you know, when we think about leaders in charge of implementing change, you know, they need to get a few things right. Beyond just communications, they need to articulate a compelling vision of the future. You know, that burden is on the leader leading the change, you know, they need to paint the picture. They need to build a strong coalition. Up there. There. Hear leaders and not go out alone, or assume everybody's aligned with them right out of the gate. So building the coalition laterally is very important. And leading by example. So this gets to your question directly, you know, communicating is one thing, but leading by example, is so critically important. All eyes are on leaders during times of change. And so they need to be the ones modeling new behaviors, they need to be the ones who are the early adopters of new ways of working using a new technology, using a new process. So they need to, they need to really lead the way with their selves. And of course, you know, being available and accessible is important. It's a great time for open door policies and free flowing two way communication during those times of change. And the last point I'll make there is celebrating wins along the way, is critically important, recognizing teams that are adopting new ways of working, and calling them out and honoring them, harvesting those gains along the way and acknowledging those wins really helps to build momentum.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Oh, one point of clarification for my audience to a vision is not a statement that you put on the walls on a nice little poster with your logo on it, and have maybe in every conference room in the office that says something like, we're going to be a global world class manufacturer of blah, blee, blah, blah, blah, and create shareholder value, that a piece of corporate bullshit, and is has no meaning to anybody. A vision is something that has meaning it evokes a feeling an emotion, it's something that people really aspire to, and want to get to just a minor point of clarification.

31:56

It's a great point, vision should be tangible. It should be inspiring, it should be achievable. It should be desirous, right, it has a lot of characteristics. And most importantly, people should see themselves in that future vision. So I call it the with them what's in it for me, you need to articulate the future, in terms of what it means for the individual. It's one thing to talk about us in we the company, the organization, that's well and good. But you also need to direct it to the individual, and make sure they're clear, and can see themselves in the vision and see themselves being successful. And the future vision.

Yeah, I agree. And you know, all my years in purchasing and supply chain. For many years, we said, Oh, we want to create a world class purchasing organization. That's great. What the hell is that? You know, what is it? Exactly? It's very, very difficult to define it, measure it, to feel it, and to know what that looks like and feels like. And then what your part what is your part? What is the part that you have to play? How does it relate back to you to your point? So I love blowing up all this corporate speak. I'm on a thing right now to get rid of corporate speak, because I absolutely hate it. And I think that, you know that the podcast medium is is a way where people can talk like real human beings. I see so many emails, corporate emails, I've certainly seen them in my career. And, you know, you know what they're trying to say, you know, what they're not saying you can read between the lines, and it's probably gone through, you know, how many different levels of scrutiny and rewrites and edits and then it goes out, and people just scan it and they go, Oh, yeah, okay, well, that's just, you know, corporate speak, blah, blah, blah, and then they delete it. And I think people need to learn to speak to each other like human beings, not like corporate robots. And that's why I love the medium of podcasting because you get to talk to people and interact with people, like real human beings.

34:09

Some of the best companies I've worked with some of my favorite clients are very human centered, meaning they talk, like humans, and not corporate wants. And when we think about the human element of change, one of the things I like to do with clients and this relates to the future vision as well is walk through this little exercise where we say, okay, in the future state, ideally, what are our employees thinking, saying and doing? So thinking? Imagine a little thought bubble in the cartoon above their head. This is stuff that's internal to them, what are they thinking, how do we want them to think? What are they saying around the water cooler or the virtual water cooler, the These days to each other, that what chatter is happening? And then what are they doing? What are their behaviors telling us? And if we can identify those attributes and human terms, think, say and do in terms of what we want, at the end of our change and transformation effort, we can get really practical and help to drive some of those things.

I would add one more to that. I'm going to drop the F bomb feeling. What are they feeling? Oh, definitely add that dread. Because that gets right to the heart of it. Right? What are they feeling? Right? are they feeling inspired? are they feeling they want to take on the world, that they are so proud to be part of this company? Because that will drive the positive behavior and impact the culture? What are they feeling? That deep, deep, deep level? Love that F bomb?

35:55

And you mentioned the P word as well, pride? Yeah, which, if you can cultivate it, and harness it is a true differentiator in culture, and can take companies to places they could have never dreamed of going.

Yeah, you know, when I started my career, I started with an auto supplier, borgwarner automotive, and I started with them in Wales, and then I worked for them in two different locations here in the US. And I was so proud to work for that company. I actually felt like a tingle every time I saw the logo, really, I did. And I remember driving up to the Muncie, Indiana plant for the first time and and such just beaming with pride and so proud of it. And I wish I could capture that, you know, because that's, that's what you want. You want people to feel that good about the company, and I would have done anything for their company, I would have done anything to protect them to be the ambassador of the brand. And that's what we need.

36:58

That's magical. When it happens. Some companies stumble into it accidentally, and don't know how to bottle it and maintain it. Others strive for decades to create it, and still struggle to figure it out. So yes, if we could distill that down into something formulaic that could be easily infused into organizational culture, that would be incredible. So I'll get back to once I've figured that out.

I was gonna say you're the expert on doing this, you know how to take the, you know, the area that we used to call soft skills, which I hate that term, by the way, human skills, you're the expert at taking these things that are difficult to define and putting a structure to it. So I am challenging you, Jessie to Coby, to put that into a structure.

37:53

Thank you, Jan, I'm flattered and I'm wise enough at my age to know that I no less than what I don't know. So I have so much more to learn and do and grow. And it's something that is important to me is my own personal development. So, yes, I will, I will strive to figure that out and get back to you.

Okay, great. So let's talk about your your your career, we've talked about your career, your experiences, but what advice would you give to your 25 year old self? If you were talking to 25 year old Jesse Jacoby, what would you tell him?

38:35

Take risks, you'll likely never regret taking a risk. But you are likely to regret not taking a risk. And don't be afraid to fail. What you'll learn through failure is invaluable and often, way more valuable than success. Doesn't always feel good. At the time, the failures happening but in hindsight, in retrospect, it really drives growth. And lastly, we're all human. Don't be intimidated by the status of others. Everyone has insecurities and struggles. So approach people with respect and kindness and realize we're all on this floating marble together. And and don't be intimidated by people speak your mind. Be bold. Be unabashedly.

Yes, yes. I like that. I like that a lot. This fear of failure, Jessie, I mean, you must see it in your business time and time again. Right. And that's what people are concerned with right now as they navigate this journey back to the office. Is this what if what if we get it wrong, right? But you said it earlier. It's okay. It's okay to be wrong. It's okay to get it wrong. Just be transparent. Open up the the reasons the communication and talk about the reasons why you're doing or not doing certain things. Get a feed back loop going, and then change it, you know, if you make a misstep, change it. When you take on a client, I would have to imagine, you know, knowing the culture that you're going into is pretty important, right? And if you cover such a wide range of industries, and products, how do you how do you get a take on their culture? How do you get the pulse of their culture is that difficult to do?

40:26

There's publicly available knowledge. So we try to do a scan and get some intel that way. But one of the first conversations out of the gate with a new client, or a new client engagement, or even a new function within an existing client, because they can be different from function to function, they can have their own unique cultures, or micro cultures, as I like to call them. And so yes, understanding that out of the gate is pretty important. And it usually happens through, like I said, scanning, but also conversations with representatives from those companies in those functions specifically.

So let's take a turn to the more personal side of things. I always love to know how people start their days. And you know, how, how do you set your day up for success? As you know, I run an accountability lab in the mornings and we make commitments for our day, and we declare our mindset and then we use the power of positive peer pressure to drive accountability, right. But for you personally, how do you start your day? How do you hold yourself accountable?

41:38

Well, how I start my day, I wish coffee Of course, Jan. Hello, no, seriously, my day often starts by taking stock of the day's schedule, moving in reprioritizing activities if needed. So confession, I manage my life using Outlook calendar. So it's easy for me to slide activities around and fine tune my schedule for the day. Each day, my goal is to have the right balance of meetings, heads down work time, such as content creation, project and task management type stuff, and personal time, including exercise and family activities. This is all co mingled on my Outlook calendar. So essentially, my days begin with me organizing and optimizing my schedule, which enables me to work effectively throughout that day and know that I'm using my time most wisely.

Yeah, I'm an Outlook calendar person, too. Okay, good. Well, I would love to thank you for your time today and sharing your insights. And if our audience wants to reach out to you what's the best way for them to reach you?

42:54

You can find me at my website, emergent consultants comm from there, you can connect with me personally.

Okay, great. And I'll drop a link in the show notes as well.

43:05

Yeah, and I want to thank you for having me on your Finding Gravitas podcast, and it's been a wonderful privilege and opportunity to connect with you here. And thank you so much.

Well, thank you, Jesse Jacoby. He is indeed the change leadership guru.

43:27

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