The discussion in this episode centers on the profound insights shared by Bible teacher Dr. Chip Ingram, who articulates the transformative principle encapsulated in his book, "I Choose Joy." This principle posits that one's circumstances, when combined with an appropriate perspective, ultimately dictate one's experiences in life. Dr. Ingram emphasizes the significance of maintaining an eternal outlook, particularly during periods of adversity, as he shares how one's understanding and interpretation of life's challenges can lead to spiritual growth and resilience. Throughout our conversation, we explore the importance of community, mentorship, and the necessity of engaging deeply with Scripture to foster hope and clarity amidst trials. It is our earnest desire that listeners will glean valuable wisdom and encouragement to navigate their own journeys with renewed perspective and purpose.

Takeaways:

• In this episode, we explored the fundamental concept that our circumstances, when coupled with our perspective, ultimately shape our experience of life.
• Dr. Chip Ingram emphasized the significance of maintaining a proper perspective during challenging circumstances to foster spiritual growth and resilience.
• The discussion highlighted the necessity of community and mentorship in spiritual development, particularly through life-on-life interactions and shared experiences.
• Listeners were encouraged to ground their hope in Christ and the eternal promises of God rather than in transient circumstances or personal expectations.
• Ingram articulated the transformative power of consistent engagement with Scripture as a means of renewing the mind and sustaining spiritual vitality.
• It was noted that feelings, while important, should not dictate one’s decisions; rather, they should be aligned with God's truth and purpose.

Hey there, and welcome back to the Clarity Podcast.

This podcast is all about providing clarity, insight and encouragement for life and mission.

And my name is Aaron Santemayr, and I get to be your host.

Today.

We get to sit down with Bible teacher Dr. Chip Ingram and get to learn from him.

This is a podcast I've been looking forward to.

Just wanted to have the opportunity to sit down and learn from Chip.

He's someone I've listened into as a Bible teacher, probably for the last 10 years.

We sit down and discuss his book, I choose change your perspective and change your life.

And it's been a book that's impacted me, one I've used as devotional, one that I've returned back to in different seasons of my life, specifically when there's been drier seasons in my life.

Just a great reminder.

And Chip is a phenomenal expositor of God's word and just has been given me value and golden nuggets that I've been able to hold on to in life.

Some of his teaching on spiritual warfare, parenting, relationships.

He's the first person that I remember saying, you know, it's the distance between reality and expectation, what you thought was going to happen and what happens is where a lot of the frustration and irritation can happen in our life.

And so Chip has been somebody, I would say a distant mentor because I spent a lot of time listening to him.

But it was fun just to sit down, have two West Virginians on the podcast together and learn from him.

So really want to thank Chip for being on DO and ask you to continue to subscribe to the podcast.

I know the podcasts I've subscribed to are the ones I listen to.

They show up on my feed every Tuesday, and I know what I'm going to be listening to.

Please continue to send in your questions for backchannel with Foth.

That's where we get to sit down with Dick Foth and we get to learn from him.

It's been fun over the years just to see the questions come in, get to sit down with Dick and hear his answers.

Well, there's no time better than now to get started, so here we go.

Greetings and welcome back to the Clarity podcast.

So excited to be here today with Chip Ingram.

Chip, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much, Aaron.

It's really good to be with you, Chip.

I share before we hit record, I've listened to you and you've spoken into my life a lot over the years as I've been a missionary on the field and kindred roots.

We're both have those West Virginia roots, so I think that was one of the things that connected.

But just your timely words in my life over the years and it's been great for Chip.

Somebody who maybe has not listened to your podcast, has never heard you share from God's Word.

Will you share a little bit about yourself before I start jumping asking questions about I choose Joy?

Sure.

I'll do a super quick overview.

Grew up as an unbeliever, committed to playing basketball and having a pretty girlfriend and found myself deeply empty.

Trusted Christ through FCA camp, went away to college.

I'd never opened the Bible before.

I met a bricklayer who was trained by the navigators.

We saw God do something on that campus and so I went to grad school to be a major college coach.

I wanted Bobby Knight's job and, and I was committed to making disciples and, and did so.

And so I moved to another campus with him.

We started another ministry.

Was invited to play basketball through a group of sharing Christ in all the countries of South America for two summers and then with an Australian team throughout all of the Southeast Asia.

And God just got my heart.

And there was a missionary actually in Argentina who it was an big outdoor stadium.

We, our team was really, really good.

We played all the Olympic teams and I was just a little court, I was just a little point guard throwing it to the really big guys on our team.

But it was outdoor and about 10,000 people.

And he kind of watched me read my Bible every morning and we did Bible studies.

And he grabbed me and flipped over one of those plastic milk carton carriers and said preach.

And I said, what?

He goes, well, I see you reading your Bible every morning.

And I happened to have read Psalm 19 and, and I said stop and look up.

It was a really starry night, beautiful outdoor court.

And I said the God who made all those knows you come down and I want to introduce you to him personally.

And a couple hundred people start walking and the guy goes, give him the gospel.

I said, well, how?

He was like Billy Graham.

So anyway, back and forth and so he's translating like crazy.

And I don't know, 40 or 50 people indicated they trusted Christ.

Well, every night it was like, okay.

And I had no idea that God I was basketball coach and I was leading a ministry and I would teach in these college campuses and we saw good things but the last job ever was being a pastor.

And so, you know, post that it became clear.

And so after grad school we went to seminary and another longer story but for missionaries to grasp.

I really tried to be a missionary.

And the gal that I fell in love with had been abandoned about two and a half years earlier when she had twin little boys and found out her husband was having an affair with someone else.

And he ran off, left her no money, no anything.

She came to Christ through that.

I met them when the boys were two and a half.

At four and a half we got married.

At six and a half I got to adopt him.

But all the blended family and I applied to missions organizations and back then it didn't matter whether it was on the grounds of adultery or an unbeliever.

You were just, you, you couldn't, you couldn't get in the mission organization.

And I understood the reasons, but so God used that in a great way.

So we've always had a mission focus on all the churches I've had the privilege of pastoring.

And the second church ever pastor was Santa Cruz, California.

A pretty very weird and satanic oriented, I mean just bizarre place.

And God put his hand on that place and did some amazing things.

And a businessman.

We ran out, we were doing five services with video overflow and all the services.

And a business guy put it on a couple radio stations and it kind of took off.

And I told him, I don't want to do that.

I'm doing five services, I'm really tired, I can't handle anymore.

And I just did his memorial.

And he was a mentor for 38 years of my life.

And Dick Sleeper started living on the edge.

And you know, the broadcast seemed to be really helping people.

And you know, then they asked me to take a few of the things and turn them into books.

And so that's sort of the story.

And since then I've just been trying to help Christians live like Christians and try to have people grow up in churches that are the opposite of what I experienced when I grew up.

The hypocrisy, it was like, if this is what a Christian is, I, I wouldn't want to know their God.

And it was through the life lived out by some athletes who were real and my introduction to the Bible through the navigators that really laid hold of my heart.

So that's my shortest version.

Good word.

I've been encouraged in the last few weeks as the College World Series has been going on, that the team, the West Virginia Mountaineers, they, the, the several of their players are outspoken for, for, for Jesus.

And they've been baptizing each other and just amazing to see their, their stance.

And so once again that idea of of sports and intersection with F the opportunities they have to share the love of Christ.

Chip, today we're going to look dive into I choose joy.

And in that you share about a divine equation.

What do you mean by divine equation when it comes to I choose joy?

Well, I was studying Philippians Chapter one, and it was a time where my circumstances were very dire.

I think I'd had my second back surgery.

I've been in huge pain for a long time and was ready to go to the Billy Graham center and teach on Philippians 1.

And as I was putting that together, I always like to is there a way to kind of encapsulate the truth so I can actually renew my mind and keep it in front of me?

And, you know, all the missionaries know the story.

He's in prison and his circumstances are terrible, and it looks like he's going to, you know, be executed.

He's not sure if he's going to live or die.

He's chained to, you know, these praetorian guards.

And C plus P equals E was sort of my summary of that chapter.

Circumstances plus your perspective equals your experience and what you understand.

If you study Philippians one carefully, there's sort of the answers are there.

And so I flip the answers.

There's kind of four questions that help us as followers of Jesus to get God's perspective versus I'm a victim.

Why does this happen?

This isn't fair.

I mean, all those things can be true.

But when my circumstances are really, really challenging, if I see through the lens that God gave the Apostle Paul, that eternal perspective, then we can say my circumstances turned out for the greater progress of the Gospel.

It didn't mean he got unchained.

I don't think it meant his food got better, but it meant his perspective was one.

Where he often said throughout the book and even in this chapter and in this, I greatly rejoice.

Hmm.

Wow.

And perspective is so, so important.

And many, as we've shared, many of the people listening in are missionaries, and they're trying to increase gospel access and establish the church.

And one of the things I shared with you before we hit record, I've appreciated your teachings on spiritual warfare and the role that when we're trying to advance the gospel, just the reality, there's an enemy that comes to kill, steal and destroy.

So missionaries are going to face negative circumstances.

And when they're trying to establish the church in difficult places, how can we avoid that going down?

Negative thoughts and the reality of our circumstances.

Any practical wisdom chip for the people.

Listening in, you know, I think one was all kind of personalities and some have such a sensitive conscience, whenever they struggle, they start the condemnation.

I'm terrible.

Why am I messed up like this?

And others are on the other end and need probably pretty good poke from the Holy Spirit to realize you are not a victim.

Get over yourself.

You know, quit whining.

But I think of all the things that are most helpful, this is more on the preventative side.

That bricklayer who discipled me, if I learned nothing else, and I would say if I could choose all the seminary and Greek and Hebrew and theology and all the books I've read compared to my time with the bricklayer, I would choose my time with the bricklayer.

Because since that time and for the last Gosh, almost 58 years, I've been a believer.

I get up and I meet with God and I'm in the scriptures and I talk honestly.

And sometimes when I can't figure out what's wrong inside, you know, I don't journal every day, but I'll write things out and I'll pray.

You know, I have my ups and downs, but deeply from the heart.

And I've found that I once I'm in the scriptures on a regular basis, then I've had to have.

I talked earlier before we got on about a mentor, but I have three mentors, they're in their 90s that I can share anything with and they've been on the journey with me and, and so that being in community where someone really knows what's going on.

And so I would say of all the things that at least keep perspective.

It doesn't mean you don't lose, it doesn't mean you won't get depressed.

But we did some research at living on the edge and I pray all the missionaries are doing way, way better.

But we did some research and Barna did it for us, for evangelical pastors in the U.S. they came from all kinds of different backgrounds, but really self professed evangelicals believe the Bible born all the rest.

And only 21% of the pastors in America ever open the Bible except for sermon preparation.

Wow.

And people get busy and I get it.

And, but there's, there's, there's Facebook, there's AI, there's distractions and I'll read later, I'll pray later.

And the number of missionaries and the number, number of pastors who have allowed little by little by little by little their own spiritual vitality to drift.

You are set up to get smashed by Satan.

It is the word of God that brings life.

It's the word of God to abide.

It's the word of God and honest, deep, not just praying in the car prayers, those are great.

But times of genuine worship, times of silence, times of repentance, times of God, this is just me.

And where you allow him to speak.

I think first and foremost I would say establishing, maintaining that no matter what.

And that's why I do it first.

And I think there's some biblical precedent.

You know, I don't want to be legalistic, but, you know, you look at any major obedient obedience.

Abraham gets up early to obey, to sacrifice his son.

David talks in the morning.

Jesus a great while before dawn.

So I would just encourage, I think that's number one to get perspective is I've got to renew my mind.

And the second thing I would say is that's been most helpful is, you know, because like all of us, sometimes I read by, you know, three o'clock in the afternoon.

Now what did I read this morning?

But scripture memory, what is it where God's speaking to you and whether it's two verses or whether, you know, over the years, okay, you know, John 15, I need to have that in my mind.

Romans 12, I need to have that memorized.

Or for some that have, you know, as our, as we get older, our minds get less sharp and really saying some of the disciplines that allowed us to really grow when we were younger, we know enough where we don't have to do those things anymore and we get sloppy and we get lazy.

And I think the Holy Spirit says, hey, let's draw near to me.

I'll draw near to you.

And to ponder and keep those basics alive, I think is really critical.

Wow.

Wow, Chip, you've mentioned the bricklayer and the impact he's had on your life.

Many of the people listening in, they were trying to make disciples that are making disciples.

And I can't.

That's a perfect picture, right, of the bricklayer.

He discipled you and then you've been able, had this opportunity to disciple and share God's word with so many other people.

Were there one or two things that he did that you were encouraging to you that may be encouraging for those listening in to say, you know what, Chip?

I want to be that bricklayer.

And the people, the community, communities I live in, investing in their life with, with, through discipleship.

Any, any things that you would share?

Absolutely.

I, I, there are many, many things I'd share, but the, the top two was one.

He was, I don't mean this in the spiritual terms, but he was a very non charismatic leader.

You know, his Bible studies were rather boring.

He was very blue collar.

He had only a high school education.

I fell asleep in some of his Bible studies.

He would not leave me alone.

He prayed.

He modeled before me.

He helped me when I didn't want help.

And I remember, but I ate multiple meals.

Sometimes we think it's a program and I just meet with them and I have coffee and we go through this book or we learn to study the Bible together.

But he actually, he did life with me.

I mixed mud for him.

I ate around his table.

I watched him come down the stairs.

Can smell some of them are old enough to know.

There was this really strong cologne called Brute.

Yeah, you know, sure.

And it was like, dave, man, what are you doing?

He had a tie on.

I've never saw him dressed up.

He says, well, I'm going on a date.

I said, a date?

You're married, man.

What are you doing?

I never saw my parents go on a date, but he.

He dated his wife.

He spent time with God.

He.

I worked with him.

And I didn't have a teaching job yet.

And so, you know, I would mix the mud by hand and the haydite blocks for foundations.

And I'll never forget a day.

And he ran those lines and snapped them and shook his head and ran them again and snapped.

Him and looked at me and said, I can't.

I mean, we're up about two and a half feet all the way around, and he starts walking around and kicking down all these blocks.

And I'm thinking, I got to mix all the mud.

What are you doing?

And he says, it's off.

And he told me some minute.

I said, well, that's the legal limit.

And he said, it might be the legal limit.

It's not God's legal limit.

I'm not doing this for these people.

I've got an audience of one.

Wow.

And I remember in the pouring rain, going to a.

A Navigator conference and you know, all the speakers had.

They drove out and there was a guy off to the side and it was, I mean, torrential rain and his hood's up.

And of course, Dave's in this old Volkswagen van and I'm with him.

And you know, all the cars of all the leaders and everyone zooms by.

We've heard so much about Jesus.

And Dave pulls off behind this guy, gets underneath his car in the pouring rain and fixes his car.

5,000 Messages.

And so I, after a time, you know, we all say more is caught than taught.

Now, we did Bible studies, we did design for discipleship.

I mean, we did all the rudimentary things.

He met with me once a week.

He often would start our times at McDonald's.

We'd meet at 6am and you know, he would.

If he opened the Bible and read the first few verses of Psalm 27, I mean Proverbs 27, I knew it was not going to be a wonderful morning because the kisses of a friend, the kisses, the wounds of a friend are better than the kisses of an enemy.

That meant he told me things that most people never had.

The courage.

Wow, Chip, you know how much I care about you when I'm in the car with you.

You're arrogant.

You drive like you're the most important person.

Chip, you know, in the Bible study, you really do have a teaching gift and I so appreciate that.

And I'm for you and I love you.

And you said this, this and this and that sounded like you were building yourself up and not the Lord.

And he wounded me at times very deeply.

But he loved me so holistically in life that I, when I, when I left my relationship with Dave to go on to seminary, etc, my life was marked.

I wanted to be a man of God like Dave.

I wanted to be a husband like Dave.

I wanted to be a dad like Dave.

And, and I saw him because he didn't have some of those gifts.

He would just take these steps and awkwardly.

By the time I was in seminary and out of seminary and pastoring, I'd get a call and we'd talk.

He'd say, you know, it's really exciting to have these graduate programs now.

And I'm meeting with three Ph.D. chinese students.

Wow.

And he said, you know, they're.

I know they're all way, way smarter than me, but everybody needs loved.

And here's what I know.

If I can just get him to get into the word, if I get him to search it out for themselves and you know, Polly makes all those good meals and you know, they're far, far away from home.

And Dave, until the day he died, was doing with others.

And there are people like me, not just in vocational ministry, but probably even more accountants.

And I mean those, those campus ministries grew to a few hundred people with a very non upfront guy.

So that's what I'd say.

Be faithful.

Yeah.

Keep hanging in there.

Keep doing what Dave did.

That's what I'm trying to do.

Amen.

What a testimony.

What a testimony.

Chip, you write that emotions, feelings are a gift but they're not always reality or a good guide for decision making.

Can you unpack that for us?

Yeah.

I think if you watch enough Hallmark movies and, and, and listen to anything that is sort of scrolling in our day is follow your heart.

Maybe the biggest lie that our cultures believed what I feel, because I feel it.

And there's a whole philosophical couple hundred years of how we got here that we'll skip on.

But this idea that my feelings define reality are a lie.

Our emotions are good, they're important, but God's word defines reality.

And our emotions can lead us down paths that are very, very dangerous.

And so, you know, it's not, they're not a bad thing.

Right.

At all.

And I think, you know, I think we, you can be on the other end of this and, and downplay them so that you get so cerebral.

But, but I think we really are in a world where.

Well, I don't, I don't feel like praying.

Well, okay.

You know, find a professional athlete.

Find someone who's a great musician.

Find someone who's good at anything.

The difference between the people who are very, very successful and faithful are ones who, yes, I don't feel like it.

Nevertheless, my emotions will not be.

I will not be a slave to them.

Yeah, it's the apostle Paul, right?

You know, it's where he says, you know, I buffet my body, my, my body and my appetites will come under my control.

I discipline myself.

I have a very clear cut, long term goal.

I understand there's a strategy behind that.

And I'm going to get up today or I'm going to deal with this in a way that all those emotions, you know, there's a great line, my wife and I listening.

And he's a neuroscientist and he has a great line.

He says, you know, when you, when you struggle with things and the feelings just make you want to do something.

He has this great line where he says, love the who you'll be tomorrow more than satisfying the cravings of today.

Wow.

And so whether it's food or whether it's drugs or whether it's sex or whether it's.

I'm going to, you know, watch one more thing in Netflix.

Or whether it's procrastination.

I mean, we all have that right, you know, and, you know, we're human, but it's.

Choosing to put our priorities in the right order is often a matter of telling our feelings.

I understand this is real.

I understand this is how I feel.

But that's not who I Am.

And so that's been at least a journey that I'm very imperfectly working on.

And tell myself, chip, love who you want to be tomorrow more than, you know, eating that or watching the next program.

Yeah, good word, Chip.

My first term in Burkina FASA was not things that are written in the annals of missionary success.

You know, I was sick a lot and struggled a lot and motions all over the place.

And there was an older missionary who came and he said, you know, Aaron, your biggest, you know, your biggest temptation is that airplane.

He said, you can make it.

You can have your feelings and emotions today.

And to say, I want to buy ticket.

I'm going home.

I'm done with this.

And he said, In 12 hours, you can be on a plane leaving.

He said, you know, when I came, we had to take a boat, and the boat was miserable.

So I didn't want to get back on that boat because that was 30 days of back on the boat.

But it may.

It highlighted to me how this idea, even for missionaries, you know, it's not going well.

I'm not feeling this anymore.

It's just easier to stop and move forward.

So when you wrote that, it's just the idea that they are a gift, but also if they're guiding us, God's called us to do something, and God called us to be at a place.

But, man, we live in a world that we can make quick decisions and change trajectory very quickly based on something that might not necessarily, might not be true.

Does that make sense, Chip?

It makes more than sense.

I think it's the temptation that we all have.

And, you know, not in this passage in Philippians 1, but we found ourselves in Covid helping pastors who massively, all around the world were ready to quit body bags coming out.

And I happen to be very discouraged myself and feeling pretty depressed.

And, you know, I'll share this as a sort of a short remedy, as I do three things when I feel myself.

My emotions are like, I'm losing.

I realize I'm sinking, sinking, sinking.

And, you know, there's a part where there's that little gray area where there's part of us that, like, once I'm depressed, I want to stay there, but there's this little window where you got to grab yourself by the back of your neck.

And.

And so I do three things.

Number one, I. I get on the elliptical or whatever you need to do to get sweaty, to get the endorphins, get your body at least helping you.

Second is find a private place and sing loudly Praises to God when you absolutely don't want to.

And then third, find someone who's hurting worse than you.

And regardless of how you feel, just help them.

Just help them.

And those three things, they, what they do is they your body, your emotions and your focus, they get shifted.

And so I came back in after my sweaty workout and my singing around the block that no one wanted to hear, that I didn't feel like it.

And then when I came in and there was body bags and things coming out of Egypt and the head of all the Protestant churches there had become a close friend.

I'd done some pastor training and so I thought, well, he's, I'm whining because I can't see my grandkids and I'm shut down in California and it's crazy.

And so I got on a Zoom the next day and Dr. Zaki, how are you doing?

I saw it looks horrendous there in Egypt.

And he said, we're barely surviving.

And I said, oh wow, you know, and he goes, I'm okay.

And, and I mean, not scripted.

I didn't have it planned, but I'd been thinking, wonder, wonder what we should teach the world right now.

I mean, if there was a passage in the midst of COVID And so in my mind it was like, you know, this is, this is James, Chapter one, the Art of Survival.

You know, there's an attitude, consider all joy.

There's a resource, there's wisdom and there's a theology.

When you're down, you're actually spiritually in a high place because you are really dependent.

I said, I, I said, I, I've been thinking about a little series called the Art of Survival.

He goes, well, send it to me.

Said Dr. Zaki, I've been thinking about it.

He goes, we're hurting, but there's some, and here's a point I want to make is the need of someone else that was desperate.

Something clicked inside that got me off of me.

I, I, I hung up the Zoom.

I had our head of international happened to be on the zoom with me.

I made a couple calls.

A guy came in with the mask on Monday.

I studied all weekend.

I did a three part series.

I filmed it, got it to him by Friday.

It was dubbed in Arabic by the following Friday.

And then he wanted me to teach all three parts.

He goes, everyone's stuck.

So I did this zoom call with all the Protestant pastors.

I mean, you know when you're on Zoom and there's lots of pages.

Yeah, I was sort of flipping through them.

And it was just like, oh, man.

And then we had an hour and a half of Q A.

And.

And this is all to say.

And I mean, the first question was, you know, I forget what they called me.

You know, they always give you some formal, you know, like Dr. Something, even though I'm not a doctor.

But he said, why did God let my wife die?

That was the first question.

And it was just like, oh, my.

Let's.

So we were in this together, and the guy that was with me said, this isn't.

This just isn't for us.

And the next week, I found myself, because our international guide worked with Billy Graham for 10 years and Luis Palau.

And so we had 700 pastors from India in 300 cities, and then it went around the world.

My point was that passage, choosing consider it all joy, decision, not because it's good.

Knowing experientially the word is the testing of your faith produces endurance.

Hupo meno.

It's pressure.

It's just.

It produces.

I won't quit.

I won't quit.

I.

Knowing that perseverance has its perfect or maturing result, that you might be perfect, complete, lacking in nothing.

And I would just say when.

When you get really down, you just realize, choosing your emotion and.

And the word consider there.

It's a.

It's a.

It's an accounting term.

So this isn't like, oh, I'm gonna.

I'm gonna white knuckle my way through.

I'm just gonna pretend I'm joyful.

It's.

It's a.

It's an accounting term that looks at all that God has ever done, all that God has ever done in you and for you and through you, looking in your past history, knowing that some of the hardest times you've ever had in your marriage with one of your kids or your health, when you look back now, those were the most shaping, defining things that made you like Christ.

So what you're facing now, right now, you want to.

You want to come home.

Don't give up, don't give in.

Choose to consider it not there's a joyful emotion, but consider all joy.

And the word.

The word for trials, there is external trials.

The only other time it's in the.

You know, the Good Samaritan, it says when he was surrounded by the robbers, the same word.

Things come into your life when you're doing what God wants you to do as a missionary that are out of your control, that can just take you completely down.

And he says, drive a stake and don't ask why, why, why ask?

What do you want to do in me through this?

What do you want to accomplish through this?

What can I learn through this?

And I hate this, and it's hard, and I know you won't leave me, but then I need a friend.

And whatever it takes to hold each other up, we're not going to give up.

Wow.

And what we, what we found was that message not, you know, it wasn't like, hey, I've got a great idea.

I've got a great strategy.

It came out of my.

I was depressed.

I mean, you got to remember this came out of a guy that was depressed.

And I think it's in 38 languages and we've trained in, in person, about 500, 000 pastors in 60 countries.

And, and none of that zero was because we did anything other than a very.

And by the way, you know, I've written a few books, but this is, when I read this, we turn it into a small little book you can read, you know, in 45 minutes or an hour.

And I read, and I just think this is one of the most vanilla things I've ever written.

And, and it's.

But it's got God's favor on it.

It's God's word for this time.

And, And I would just, I just want to encourage.

I think sometimes, you know, this is, I just think sometimes, especially when you're, when you're a missionary, you're a pastor, and all this social media stuff, it just feels like everyone's life is going great and you're kind of nobody not accomplishing very much, and that's a lie from the pit of hell.

And I would just say candidly, turn off all that stuff, stop watching so much of the news, you'll just get depressed and stop looking at what other people are doing and realize there is a very personal God who loves you that made you, that you're exactly where you need to be and you don't have to be flashy and you just keep being faithful.

And you're going to be surprised at the judgment seat of Christ.

You're going to be surprised at what happens with some people that you think are such hot stuff, or at least other people think that.

And you're going to really be surprised that a lot of those passages that we don't think much about, that Jesus, the not so's that he talks about there in First Corinthians, not many of you were.

And he just delights to use us regular people, ordinary people, in extraordinary ways.

Because he gets the credit.

Wow.

What a thank you for such a pastoral word, Chip.

Very, very much, very, very much.

Wonder.

I got one more question for you and then I'm going to ask you to pray.

I had 12 or 14 questions.

We're not going to get through them all, but it's been.

Well, it's because I have long answers.

Because you have long have.

Because we prayed in the beginning of this podcast that the Holy Spirit would guide and direct him.

And that's what the Holy Spirit has done.

And we.

I'm grateful and thankful for that.

You share that hope as the oxygen of our soul.

What does that look like?

You've been lots of years of life in ministry.

You just shared about that certain situation.

Maybe there's somebody listening in today and they lead a little bit of hope for the oxygen for their soul.

Any words of encouragement for them?

Yes, I think, you know, hope is related to one is that comes out of the, out of the book.

I choose joy in the section where Paul doesn't know whether he's going to live or die.

And if your hope is in anything or anyone, that's temporal.

It simply can't come through.

So if it's, I'm going to be a successful missionary or, you know, we've, we've given all of our lives to God, so our kids are all going to turn out great and, and none of them will go through a divorce or what, none of them are going to get cancer.

And you know, drunk drivers never hurt.

Really, really committed Christians like us.

Well, I got news for you.

When we put our hope in anything or anyone other than what Paul did, he goes for me, for me to live is Christ.

That's his hope, and to die is gain.

And I think toward the end of that, and this is where I think hope and expectations really, really interact is I think a lot of us lose hope and get very discouraged because we unconsciously think that God has let us down because we claim promises that aren't really prom that we think that there's this unconscious deal.

Like if I do all these good things and we don't say it like this, it's not like we're prosperity people, but it's like if, I mean, I'm committed, I'm meeting with God, I don't have a lot of money and I give generously and I've made sacrifices.

God unconsciously God owes me a good life and blessing.

And the fact of the matter is the Apostle Paul toward the end of Philippians says, only conduct yourselves in A manner worthy of the gospel of Christ.

So whether I come and see or I'm absent, I may hear of you.

That you're standing firm in the Spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith.

In no way alarmed by your opponents.

This is a sign of destruction for them and salvation for you.

And that too from God.

For it has been granted the word, root word is grace.

It has been granted to you not only to believe in him, but to suffer for his sake, experiencing the same conflict which you saw, have heard about and now see to be in me.

We don't get an exemption.

The apostles had lots of faith and 11 out of the 12 get crucified.

Jesus lived a perfect life, but he Learned obedience, Hebrews 5, 8, through the things which he suffered.

If our expectations are very subtly, when we are walking close to God, life should be up and to the right.

You set yourself up for losing hope.

We need.

What were you expecting?

I think Jesus said, if you follow me, you need to die to yourself.

Pick up your cost daily and follow me.

Jesus promised in the world you're going to have trouble and tribulation.

But the promise is not you won't have it.

The promise is, I'm with you.

And so I just.

If you're losing hope, a lot of it is, I'm a victim.

This isn't fair.

Life hasn't turned out the way I thought I would.

Say, ask yourself, where's my hope?

Is it all in today or in something else?

Or really, is my hope in eternity in the promises of God?

And then second, ask yourself unconsciously, what's your expectations?

I mean, do you, do you think because you're really walking with God that you're exempt from suffering and pain and difficulty?

And, and, and I just, you know, if you hear a lot of passion there, I have, I've had to kick myself in the rear and just at times, say, Chip, for as much as you have learned about how God works, I mean, I've had three back surgeries, unceasing pain for 12 years.

Some couple betrays, betrayals in ministry that I thought, how could that ever happen for these good godly people?

And I got so upset.

And God keeps reminding me like, so what, what, what part of this surprised you?

You know, hey, why are you surprised, Chip, at the fiery trial that you and I love you, you.

I'm for you.

You know, this, this tiny little window, it's almost like the, the slice of a hair compared to all of eternity that is like a rope that goes in both directions.

Forever and ever and ever.

This little thing called time, it's.

It's very limited.

And your present trials are not to be compared with the future.

Glory you.

Be faithful.

You.

I.

No one will get a raw deal with me.

Me.

You're my son.

You're my daughter.

I love you.

You're precious.

But you start expecting things that I never promised.

I don't have a lot of people claiming the promise of Philippians 1:29.

Right.

It's been granted to me.

And yet think of the early church.

Yeah.

They.

Who are we that we could get to suffer for your name.

Yeah.

And now, I'm not going to lie to you.

I don't emotionally like it, sure.

But that's what I would say.

I think we just have to.

You know so much.

You're right.

I'm probably older than most of the people that are listening.

I just keep finding myself going back to the basics.

You know what?

Who do I really see God to be?

Do I really see myself as a loved, forgiven, adopted, sealed with his spirit, recipient of spiritual gifts, deposited me for this short little thing called time in order to fulfill his purpose, a dearly beloved son?

Or do I get sideways on lots of other stuff that I think.

And the fact is I do.

Yeah.

Thank you for your honesty and your transparency.

Such a.

Such a good word.

Chip.

Will you pray for us today?

Will you pray for those that are listening in the.

God, Use what you've shared.

Our Father, Aaron and I thank you that when even two of us gather in your name, that you hear.

That.

You're not just passive.

You're here with us.

You're.

You've given us agency.

We're not victims.

We have this incredible gift, this power to come right before you.

And you know exactly what's landed in every human heart.

Struggle, expectation, addiction, depression, anxiety, fear, struggle, lack of finances, Health issues.

Our Father, would you grant our brothers and sisters the grace to look up, whether they feel like it or not, and be reminded of who you are?

Lord, would you give them the grace to look outward and see the needs of others and focus on them despite how they feel?

And, Lord, would you give them the grace to realign their life around your purpose versus their agenda?

God, would you grant us the grace to say, my circumstances have turned out for the greater progress of the gospel?

And then, Lord, would your comfort and your love and your understanding and your patience, Lord, would you help them to get connected to someone they can really trust and share the things that are circling around in their mind and their heart and get it out.

And would you protect them from the lies of the evil one?

Lord, these are your sons, your daughters you're using greatly here and all around the world.

Lord, would you help them to persevere?

In Christ's name, amen.

Amen.